Develop Bugs

I have been banned....Sorry Moderators

Hello Everyone
i did not know that you do not post warez in this forum....so please excuse me....anyway warez are all over the net....keep the good working with M$ windows only.....sorry again
cheers

Astra I left your post up for over a day with a warning that if you don't follow rules and amend the post you will be banned. You didn't, and so I banned you.
It makes banning a mockery now that you have rejoined, but by virtue of your baptism by fire I hope that you will be a good boy now. Look, we're all grown ups, we all know how to get warez. But it's not in your interest or ours to distribute warez in a very public manner. Microsoft and other copyright holders can and are exercising their legitimate control of materials illegally distributed through this site.
Sorry for being a hard ass.
V

hey vijay ... i just wanted to know one stuff... how legal is it to copy win mobile from one device and then alter it to our desires and then uploading it for all.... trust me i didnt want to be harsh.... just wantd to know that if posting a warez link is prohibited i am sure that microsoft does not approve of this too.... for that matter we are all eagerly awaiting for crossbow for our device but i am sure microsoft does not approve that..... so why are you so soft hearted for these crimes....
no offence even i am using helmi's 3.5 and i know that its an excellent rom but i am sure that its not a legal one..... so what do you say about it.. if you are so against piracy then you should be againt it in any form... isnt it
just a thought
do comment

kingdomraj said:
hey vijay ... i just wanted to know one stuff... how legal is it to copy win mobile from one device and then alter it to our desires and then uploading it for all.... trust me i didnt want to be harsh.... just wantd to know that if posting a warez link is prohibited i am sure that microsoft does not approve of this too.... for that matter we are all eagerly awaiting for crossbow for our device but i am sure microsoft does not approve that..... so why are you so soft hearted for these crimes....
no offence even i am using helmi's 3.5 and i know that its an excellent rom but i am sure that its not a legal one..... so what do you say about it.. if you are so against piracy then you should be againt it in any form... isnt it
just a thought
do comment
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Well, for example, don't post warez discussion forum links (see your today's post at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=286918 )

Raj, you're asking the wrong guy. You can see that I don't say this is MY policy of warez. You can see specifically that I'm realistic in that we all know how to get warez... read my other posts on the subject. I'm not in a position to condone warez, but I've expressly stated (see the TomTom thread) that I will personally guide those that want warez, but will not allow it on the board.
I am a coder in my spare time, and make no money from it, but there are many enthusiastic coders who's software you are no doubt using, who would lose out if we pirate their warez. Have a heart or spare a thought. I'm not going to preach - each man controls his own destiny.
But this is a public forum, and a useful resource to us all. If you start talking about killing all Jews or how incest is best kept in the family, then I'd have the same attitude: do what you like in your house, but this is a public resource, and a helpful one, that deserves being protected by all those that benefit from it.
Regarding Roms:
This is still an entirely open question. The way I look at this is that HTC/our operator provides us with a rom on our device. They grant us a license to use the Rom, like most EULAs. And theoretically their intellectual property is vested and static within the rom itself.
However, the rom update files are distributed freely on the web. Our work in dissecting roms and make a “best of compilation” is hopefully fair use, we are generally only re-using intellectual property that is effectively licensed to us by our operator. So our best of roms merely maximise use of those materials and from there our use of the phones. I know I wouldn’t be using my phones if they weren’t maxed out with my own mods, and likewise, I can be sure that my next phone will be Windows Mobile, and almost certainly HTC, as a result of this community. I hope that HTC and Microsoft acknowledge that themselves – communities build device support and vice versa. Look at Modaco.
The problems arise with intellectual property not by those copyright holders. Palm asked us to remove Palm Messaging, and rightly so, they had every right to do so. As did Picsel with the Picsel Browser. We will comply with EVERY request to remove copyrighted material. If you can’t find anyone to do so, write to me. For legal reasons precise compliance with such a request will depend on the jurisdiction in which the copyright holder resides and the location of the XDA Devs server/host.
But I hope I speak for all the mods in saying that we are over zealous in our efforts to keep this board running, and we’d do that without warez and even questionable roms if required. But it has to be said, the board has been up for a while, and we hope that we have helped other users, not screwed the copyright holders.
Regarding Crossbow – anyone distributing it should be aware of the risk they put themselves and their source in. The mods have discussed this, and as with all intellectual challenge, will embrace its support and extend its execution. But we don’t want to get involved in hosting it right now. Rapidshare links are questionable enough, but down to the user himself.
Raj, we don't profess to be perfect. But we hope the forum provides a useful resource. I advise all users to keep it alive, and be sensible.
V

OK guys....let's close this disscusion and keep going in our good work.....thankx everybody.....sorry again

vijay555 said:
Astra I left your post up for over a day with a warning that if you don't follow rules and amend the post you will be banned. You didn't, and so I banned you.
It makes banning a mockery now that you have rejoined, but by virtue of your baptism by fire I hope that you will be a good boy now. Look, we're all grown ups, we all know how to get warez. But it's not in your interest or ours to distribute warez in a very public manner. Microsoft and other copyright holders can and are exercising their legitimate control of materials illegally distributed through this site.
Sorry for being a hard ass.
V
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vijay555 i just come here every few days when i want to follow up the good work done here for the firmwares....but i spend most of the time at the other sites that provide us with the latest warez....thnkx

Astra, seriously, no problem. It's just that you came on the board as a noob with a couple of posts asking for warez... like I said, I left a warning but we have to be fairly strict. It'll be very easy for the board to go downhill very quickly... but thanks for being gracious. No hard feelings.
V

I have to agree with vijay555 to keep the warez out of this forum.
This forum is very informative; it helps many to experience information which is in fact impossible to get anywhere else. Only because of this forum I have receive support for my Devices which I couldn’t get anywhere else.
A old Chinese saying: you don’t shxt in your leaving room!
So better to keep the leaving room clean and use the bath-room for those others :0)

vijay555 said:
Raj, you're asking the wrong guy. You can see that I don't say this is MY policy of warez. You can see specifically that I'm realistic in that we all know how to get warez... read my other posts on the subject. I'm not in a position to condone warez, but I've expressly stated (see the TomTom thread) that I will personally guide those that want warez, but will not allow it on the board.
I am a coder in my spare time, and make no money from it, but there are many enthusiastic coders who's software you are no doubt using, who would lose out if we pirate their warez. Have a heart or spare a thought. I'm not going to preach - each man controls his own destiny.
But this is a public forum, and a useful resource to us all. If you start talking about killing all Jews or how incest is best kept in the family, then I'd have the same attitude: do what you like in your house, but this is a public resource, and a helpful one, that deserves being protected by all those that benefit from it.
Regarding Roms:
This is still an entirely open question. The way I look at this is that HTC/our operator provides us with a rom on our device. They grant us a license to use the Rom, like most EULAs. And theoretically their intellectual property is vested and static within the rom itself.
However, the rom update files are distributed freely on the web. Our work in dissecting roms and make a “best of compilation” is hopefully fair use, we are generally only re-using intellectual property that is effectively licensed to us by our operator. So our best of roms merely maximise use of those materials and from there our use of the phones. I know I wouldn’t be using my phones if they weren’t maxed out with my own mods, and likewise, I can be sure that my next phone will be Windows Mobile, and almost certainly HTC, as a result of this community. I hope that HTC and Microsoft acknowledge that themselves – communities build device support and vice versa. Look at Modaco.
The problems arise with intellectual property not by those copyright holders. Palm asked us to remove Palm Messaging, and rightly so, they had every right to do so. As did Picsel with the Picsel Browser. We will comply with EVERY request to remove copyrighted material. If you can’t find anyone to do so, write to me. For legal reasons precise compliance with such a request will depend on the jurisdiction in which the copyright holder resides and the location of the XDA Devs server/host.
But I hope I speak for all the mods in saying that we are over zealous in our efforts to keep this board running, and we’d do that without warez and even questionable roms if required. But it has to be said, the board has been up for a while, and we hope that we have helped other users, not screwed the copyright holders.
Regarding Crossbow – anyone distributing it should be aware of the risk they put themselves and their source in. The mods have discussed this, and as with all intellectual challenge, will embrace its support and extend its execution. But we don’t want to get involved in hosting it right now. Rapidshare links are questionable enough, but down to the user himself.
Raj, we don't profess to be perfect. But we hope the forum provides a useful resource. I advise all users to keep it alive, and be sensible.
V
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thanks a lot... it was all very informative and trust me i did not think that you will take all the pain to explain me these things in such an elaborate manner....it was very considerate of you
realy i mean it...
thanx man

BTW, while cooked ROM's are indeed a "not-entirely-white" area, if you consider piracy as "something that does financial damage to the developer", then, cooked ROM's shouldn't be considered in so a strict way as traditional warez. (Actually, cooked, advanced ROMs even raise the value of a given Pocket PC model, generating more sales.)

Menneisyys said:
BTW, while cooked ROM's are indeed a "not-entirely-white" area, if you consider piracy as "something that does financial damage to the developer", then, cooked ROM's shouldn't be considered in so a strict way as traditional warez. (Actually, cooked, advanced ROMs even raise the value of a given Pocket PC model, generating more sales.)
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yeah i do agree to it now

Poll: Marketplace: Keep It Open or Close It

The Marketplace section of XDA has been only open for a short time. There are currently 8 potential users in our community who have been ripped off and may not be capable of receiving their payments back and/or punishing the people that scammed them. There also exist a number of buyers that await their devices to be received but the sellers have not contacted them.
There are several benefits of selling on XDA and there are many drawbacks. Please let me remind you that this is a developers (or those interested in the processes, aka users like me) forum. Please take the time to reflect the benefits and the drawbacks and vote.
I know the poll results will lean towards keeping the Marketplace open because those who visit this section on a regular would want to keep using it as a resource. Yet there are many on this site that still do not have any idea that this marketplace exist, simply because they bookmark their device's section.
Please vote after reading the Fraud Thread,Thank You.
If you have new guidelines that will help deter criminals from scamming our members please post. Please note, your suggestions may be criticized.

My vote to third option. I dont believe in throwing the baby with the bath water. Everything faces problem in the beginning, so is this marketplace. Let's make it a better place.

Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.

|Jason8| said:
Just because the Marketplace isn't open doesn't mean XDA won't be used for transactions between users. With the Marketplace, the transactions are more public and I bet that being open and public actually cuts down on scams.
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I completely agree with your opinion. What do you think about banning device sale transactions altogether?
Just like XDA bans warez but obviously users can PM each other regarding warez.

I would think that there is a way to keep the market section open, yet make it safer. I don't think it is XDA's responsibility to make sure every transaction is 100% safe, not even eBay can do that. I don't even think it is responsible to go above and beyond "buyer/seller beware". But I know this communitty and to simply leave it at "stock" isn't an option.
It has proven true that it is hard to identify a good scammer. Post counts, length of membership, and so forth have all proven indicators of trustworthiness, but not a guarantee. And while a guarantee surely isn't possible in reality, I know it is always the goal of those in this communitty to get it right and as close to perfect as possible.
I am currently trying to sell a couple phones, and half my worry is that people have enough trust and faith in me to feel comfortable buying from me. The other half is that I find a legit buyer. I can't even image being the actual buyer!
I feel that stricter guidelines and oversight will go a long way, although likely more time consuming as well. Perhaps making it so new listings have to get approved? And setting criteria for approval asking for photographic proof that the item exists? As well, maybe create an XDA paypal account, where the buyer pays XDA, and upon shipping confirmation/ receipt confirmation the funds are then transfered to the seller? This would put a lot of liability on XDA, which might not be plausable.
Ultimately, buyer and seller beware is and always will be the most important rule.

may555 said:
Although opening the market place means that many problems exist,which is seller make slow response to buying,I may strengthen to monitor.Opening the market place may improve the dynamic of the forum.
If you want to savvy more information about mobile phone, please come to [scamlink]
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And you give a link to a Kirf phone site... shakes head... maybe we can also look into strengthening membership requirements/ process?

XDA can't take guarantee for anything that happens in marketplace, that is something ebay doesn't take inspite of such a heavy fee amount they charge. I feel xda is the best way to share things like pocket pc phones in like minded people to get the get value for both buyer & seller. It would be there no matter you have the marketplace or not. Marketplace has provided outlet to all such dealings.
We can ponder over how to make it more secure, but giving marketplace an existential threat is not I am in agreement with.

Marketplace open!!
As I said before,
All transactions between particulars on the WWW have some risk.
If you are not willing to take that risk please do not use marketplace and go and buy to a regular store!
You should be aware that if you want to buy cheap there is always a risk!
Let´s continue with marketplace!!

I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.

Keep the market place.. I have used it for purchasing more than 1 phone, and lucky for me, my experiance here has been fantastic... I think people should pay for their transactions using a credit card... even with PayPal.. You can pay with credit card there.. That way if you are scammed and do no receive what you payed for, open up a dispute with both your credit card company as well as paypal.. evne if paypal can not "collect" anything, you credit card can cancel the transaction all together and take the money from paypal... (which will, in turn, make them want to look for the money a little harder, and even possibley bring up legal action againt the fraud monger!) In closing, KEEP THE MARKET PLACE...

I totally agree with 'Teej53214' and have voted for option 1.
I don't see why XDA should shoulder any responsibilty, nor have to police the marketplace,
since with all online dealing it is the buyers responsibility, not XDA's, to take adequate steps to protect himself.
as such, using a credit card is far the best way.

Yes, but at what point? A spammer will get a couple hundred posts in a few minutes, where as a legit member might not in a couple years.
As well, one of the most infamous scams thus far was carried out by a member with over 1000 posts, and 2 years of community involvement.

I noticed that some other sites require you to have a certain post count before posting/viewing the market place. This could cut the scammers out as it would require them to first be active in the community before being able to post.
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there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted

Ather said:
there already is a post count limit, i.e 30+ Posts, a seller less than post isent allowed to sell, and his thread is deleted
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Can we not delete it? Someone may suggest a new guideline, which could be useful for both seller/buyer

I may be new here, but i feel i'll be around for a while. I feel the Market Place is a great idea for everyone, but some guildlines should be improved for everyoens experience.
I feel that the suggestions (option 3?) would to invoke a Post Count Requirement, but to add to this a review (to enter into the market place) must be made by an admin to make sure all posts to that post count are not spam to scam.
I also feel that the market place should incorporate some kind of market system. I know there's plugins for vBulletin that would allow such a thing, or better yet, force all users to mediate through another site for sales (eBay?). This way we'll know they're scammers...
ie if someone posts a acution on eBay for the sole purpose to sell an item (Buy it now at discolsed price in forum) and they're new user on eBay then more caution flags are thrown up... (Could use many other auction sites, etc).
Edit:
Maybe enforce some kind of physical conversation about products as well, phone call, etc?
Just my $.02

Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.

skuliaxe said:
Keep it open.
I agree with what has been said. Use Paypal with a Credit card. Ivé have to open a dispute (not here) via Paypal and in the end I just contacted my credit card holder that refunded the payment.
Force users to have X many posts, visits or time from registering+posts before they can post in the marketplace.
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As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.

redbandana said:
As Ather stated, there is a 30 post count limit. I do not see it documented anywhere maybe I skipped over it. Anyhow, I am positive there is a vbulletin plugin or add-on that restricts users under a set limit of posts to be capable of accessing the marketplace section.
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Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12

12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
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I would like to repeat my suggestions: I was once really involved at notebookreview and this is how we ran things
1. Require a set form for selling and buying. http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=243274
2. Require a picture with proof of ownership. (a photo of the item with a piece of paper containing the username and a dated newspaper)
3. Require feedback sources: Amazon, ebay, heatware.
4. Reference previous sales. (some sort of internal feedback system)
I think this can help make the Marketplace a bit safer to everyone involved.

12aon said:
Ok, instead of making this thread about something that's not right let's take this wonderful opportunity to make it work.
We are open for suggestions
Who would think being a non-junior member OR being an XDA member for more then one year is appropriate/enough? Remember we are trying to scare the scammers off not everybody
Feel free to add to the list,
12
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Click to collapse
Both of those could be restrictive to real sellers, and not actually scare off scammers.
The spam guys will get a couple hundred posts really quickly. If you toss in a 1 year time limit type thing, then people that are active, like me, wouldn't even be able to sell because I haven't been a member for over a year.
I think we should ask sellers to post at least 5 pics, with their username and a newspaper pictured in one. As well, they need to send their contact info to the section mod. They also need to put a random word picked by the mod and PM to them on the piece of paper with their username on it. Only then would the post actually be made public.
As well, you can ask that they also have shown themself a member of this community, either through length of time here, post count, etc., but subject to the mods descretion.

Time for a MP mod?

Lately we have seen many users been scammed over here,, and with the lack of stickies its really difficult to know if the trader was bad or good for scams( had that recently where a member had scammed another member, and then one day he PM'd me asking to trade, but i was aware of it, but others may not be.) no ppl are getting banned who cheat on this forum. We need a mod who has traded before and just for this section, i dont think its hard to have one mod here who can delete threads, ban users who misuse the MP, make stickies on threads which have disputes, he can also act as a middle man if the User's chooses to. if you support me along this road, then please reply so we can have one

I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.

Cheeze[iT] said:
I agree. I've done a couple trades both on Hofo and Xda and I feel at times it is really nice to be able to trade, but often worried if the deal will go bad or not. It'd be nice to be able to know if the other person is reputible and if I was talking to another scammer.
It'd be nice to have some sort of system to prevent all the inconsistancy of having shady sellers.
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yeah we need it, he could also verify the IP address is not of a scammer or near by.

I agree aswell although I've only done two trades here both of which wer successful there's always a bad apple out there ready to scam some unfortunate person and I personally think we should be doing everything we can to prevent it
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster

it would be great ive wanted to offer on sum trades just have been kinda checking things out to see who is legit because we know everyone is not trust worthy

I think a Feedback system will be more helpful than moderators. Having feedback and mod will be even better.

Ya we need feedback, it will make checking someones transaction history very easy.

On my Suzuki Hayabusa forum you must have 50 posts to sell something - this is easily done with a simple vbulletin mod. The mod makes it possible for someone with less than 50 posts to browse and post in a thread in the "for sale" forums, but impossible to start a thread. I know you might think it's easy for someone to signup and post 50 times, but members notice that pretty damn quick - and we ban anyone who tries. We also have iTrader (another vbulletin mod) and once a sale is completed one of my Admins will post and ask the buyer and seller to post feedback.
The fact that people sell $6000+ motorcycles makes it a necessity to police and manage the "for sale" forums to the best of our ability for the protection of my members.
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.

biggeorgef said:
But people also sell $20 items, and we ban ANYONE who scams another member - this includes sponsors.
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i deeply agree with this one , there should be zero tolerance , no posting suspension , no infractions , just insta-ban

pinstack.com has a "trust" meter, I've found it very useful at times. Plus this gives a better all-around feel for someone instead of just what's gone on in the marketplace.
http://forums.pinstack.com/trust.php

How about for now, we try and get people to use HeatWare? You can build a rep that's damn hard to fake.

There is always someone willing to take the role and help out.
Furthermore we have a "thanks" system, so I don't see it being too difficult to add some sort of "trust" system as previously mentioned. Though if there is an acceptable volunteer for thread mod, that would be a good idea too.

I also vouch for heatware. Great service and have used it on many forum trades sections.

or post names of scammers until mods start banning them.
TheAndroider
iDroidfan
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App

Plus guys get scammed when they do things in private. Keep as much as possible public and you are safer since everyone reads the posts and someone will know if one of the parties is bogus.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA Premium App

i suggest rules(vBulletin mod) to be able to use marketplace:
1.over 50 posts
2. member for atleast 6months
in addition to:
1.transparency-every single deal should be public, pm's allowed for chatting etc, but all conditions, offers etc will be sellers&buyers thing to do in their thread(go public if you don't wanna get scammed)
2.bans for people (proved)scamming-hasn't been on xda 1 week from bogus deal, didn't respond buyer's PM's, sent fake/empty product etc
3.more mods assinged to this part of forum-"too good to be true" offers will be removed/reported in short period of time, preventing anyone to reply, and could be reactivated when seller responds to mod's pm and proves he's legit and has item for sale(especially first few sales)
4. whitelist of members who made over 20 deals succsessfully in longer period of time, separate items, with higher value(not sending 20 e.g. batteries at once).

killster said:
it wont happen, there is no reason for a 3rd party, or a member of xda community to take on that role, and then possibly be at fault.
ie.
why complicate it more than it needs to be.
A feedback system may work, but never a 3rd party.
IMHO.
37 transactions and counting, xda only.
killster
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Do those 37 count the ones you committed to and then backed out of killster? Seems mlee and i are not the only ones. Not the same as scamming but questionable nonetheless.

As per Marketplacer Rule #1:
The XDA-Developers.com Market Place, hereafter MP, is provided free to members with at least 8 posts at XDA-Developers.com. XDA-Developers.com, its moderators, administrators, owners and legal advisors do not warrant, guarantee or endorse any item offered for sale or trade on this forum.
SIMPLE ENGLISH: Trade at your own Risk.
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We have many Senior moderators who actively monitor the Marketplace forum We don't need anymore.
XDA will not get actively involved in a Marketplace dispute under normal circumstances. And we will never act as a "middle man". The above quoted rule underlines this.

Just to elaborate on what the_scotsman says above.
There are resource issues in providing checks on those trading in the Marketplace. We simply don't have these resources in terms of people to monitor trades, or systems to test or validate Users.
Equally, we do not have the resources to investigate when things go wrong. Inevitably in such cases, there will be conflicting accounts of what has happened and we have no way to prove or disprove the claims that are made by the parties in dispute. This is not an area with which we would ever suggest we can become involved.
Just occassionally we will disable the account of a member if there are repeated claims that purchased items have not been received, but Users should NEVER assume that we are checking sellers, because we are not.
We have no plans to bring in a checking system because with the resources we have, we simply wish to provide a basic noticeboard for sellers and a forum for threads where the transaction can be conducted in public. We do not Moderate the Marketplace except in a very cursory way, because it cannot be done reliably and more importantly it would give the FALSE impression that we were checking and validating the trades and sales in the Forum; in other words it might make buyers feel more secure in buying and yet the risk is ALL theirs.
It may be possible for us to implement some kind of User rating system whereby Users, not Moderators or Admin, can rate a Member according to how well or badly a sale/trade has gone. I understand this is being considered. Nevertheless, it would still be "buyer beware!".
If you are looking to buy and want guarantees and insurance if things go wrong, then our Marketplace Forum is not the place to buy! That said, if you are tempted to buy, then it may be possible for you to carry out some checks yourself, by looking at post history, previous sales if any and perhaps even a few checks using Google. You might also prefer to deal only with Members you have known over many months, even years!
Mike

Something Needs to Change

All,
I've decided that rather than start attacking some of the forum users whose conduct I don't agree with, I'd write an opinion and a suggestion.
Let me start by saying, that I love XDA. Before I became a member, I spent countless hours reading through threads on these forums. Admittedly, prior to discovering the Nexus One I was an iPhone user, and apple fanboy. I can honestly say that XDA helped cure me of that.
I am not a developer. I use these forums as a method of learning how to enhance my phone; to build a working knowledge of Android; with a hope to one day I will be able to repay the Devs who helped me with original work of my own. Lately, as many people have already stated, I've noticed that the quality of discussion in many forum threads has gone down significantly. The mods do an excellent job of keeping threads on topic, and cleaning useless posts, however, I think its getting to be too much for them. This is my attempt to provide advice to new users, and to suggest a possible course of action to help correct the conduct that is a cancer on this great site.
I've seen threads where Dev's are threatened if they don't release ROMs, where people demand ETAs. Team Hacksung, who worked tirelessly to release CM7 for the SGS2 actually had to threaten to leave XDA to bring order to their development thread. I've also seen threads degrade into rascism and discrimination, threats of violence and bigotry. None of this is acceptable, and will serve no other goal than forcing developers to leave XDA.
People need to understand a few things:
[*] Dev's work is done on their own free-time
[*] Dev's work is done for no compensation other than the gratitude of their peers and the occasional donation.
[*] Dev's are under no obligation to release ANYTHING to the members of XDA - If they don't feel their work is ready, or they aren't ready to share it, you have no right to demand it released.
[*] Access to Dev work is a privilege that can easily be revoked; NOT A RIGHT.
In addition to the excellent and trying job that the moderators already undertake, I suggest the following apply to anyone not recognized as a developer:
[*] There is a 3 strike rule with regards to posting in each development section. Any posts deemed to be off-topic, not-relevant, hateful, malicious, rascist, etc should be deemed a strike. I would not include obvious jokes, sincere mistakes, attempts to be helpful, etc as a strike. My goal is not to discourage participation, but to discourage comments designed to be harmful.
[*]Strike 1 is a warning, Strike 2 is a one week ban from posting within the development forums, strike 3 is a permanent ban from posting within the development forums.
Moderators would be responsible for determining what is a strike based on a pre-determined criteria.
My 2c, take it or leave it..
C0mbe

"In a perfect world..."

github said:
"In a perfect world..."
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This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App

I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.

Rule with an Iron Fist!!!
I agree and it's quite simple. Have respect and decency toward others and remember this is a "family oriented" site/community and that needs to be respected. I have stated my advice elsewhere in the forums that XDA needs to start ruling with an "IRON FIST" and keep this site enjoyabe and respectable as it should be. I stand behind that and always will. It is the best way to run the forums otherwise it will turn into a battleground of idiots envoking arguments, name calling, etc. I personally take offense to people who attack others in the forums and elsewhere on XDA. I have probably gotten a little out of line in the past a couple of times but that was due to others' attacks and flaming.
If you feel you should be allowed freedom of speech and explicit visual interpretation/expressionon on XDA, then this isn't the community for you. XDA holds the right to moderate it's site and forums as they see fit. In this case XDA chooses to run a family friendly site instead of a free-for-all slugfest site and I'm in favor of that. This is not directed to anyone in particular, nor do I pass judgement on anybody it's just my thoughts. Leave the hate/foul mouth comments in your world not here @XDA.
I think XDA is the best "go-to" site for all smartphone development needs and resources and that is how everybody should want to keep it. I bet most of you will agree. Do your part by helping and respecting others AT ALL TIMES. Please don't post hate comments, intentional troll provoking/explicit behavior/expressions, hateful/attitude remarks here at XDA.
Thanks for reading.

C0mbe said:
This is an internet forum, not the world... you can be as punitive as you like...
Sent from my SCH-I510 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
cajunflavoredbob said:
I think your suggestions are too lenient. In the six years I've been here, the mods have only gotten more and more lax in the rules with the influx of Android users. It used to be that if you said something retarded or offensive, it was an automatic ban. Now, it seems as though it takes an act of congress to get an abusive user removed. Don't worry, though. Their are some changes coming soon that will help out tremendously.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.

github said:
I didn't want to elaborate, but meh I'm bored. You are not the first to post about this, and won't be the last. It will get buried, and life will go on. I mean, there was already a thread about this in this very forum... and it's one of the top 5 right now.
It's a world wide forum. People will post stuff you don't like. PM a moderator and tell them about it and move on. Or use the ignore list. There are new users both new to phones AND the internet/computers. They will make mistakes and ask questions (ETAs and such). At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
An old saying works wonders here. If I had $1 for every "XDA is dying" post, I'd be very wealthy.
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has nothing to do with site growth. It never has. If you break the rules, you get punished. It's that simple. You can try ignoring useless or inflaming comments all you want, but all that does is allow the behavior to continue. Obviously, catering to the behavior and becoming more lenient didn't work. The result is that the mods are now beginning to crack down harder again. This is the direction the site is now going. This site is about developers, not troubleshooting.
Users should learn manners and respect or go somewhere else. That's the main point. It isn't our job here to teach people the manners their parents could not. That's why the site isn't named XDA-Babysittingservice.com.

It the world wide web there are bound to be idiots out there. If they start banning these people there be just me and the mods left!!
Sent from my GT-I9100 using XDA Premium App

github said:
At the end of the day, it's the internet. Does it really bother you so much that someone "demanded" an ETA? Made a disrespectful comment?
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No, each and every demand for an ETA or disrespectful comment does not bother me that much, and of course I understand that its the internet. Its very easy to behave like an idiot when you are hiding behind pixels. Its really the totality of the circumstances that I am referring to. The object of XDA is for individuals to share development information with the common goal of improving Android phones. If the purpose of the site is lost in all the ETAs and disrespectful comments, then what is the point? Certainly, the point is not to lose developers...
github said:
P.S. I also heard that the sky is falling.
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Call me whatever you like, your admission that there are multiple complaints like mine on each sub-forum is proof that there is a problem with member conduct on the site. And I did say that my OP was my own opinion, and my 2c.
github said:
Yes, bans! bans! more bans! RAWR BANHAMMER. That's the way to encourage growth. Everyone knows that a police state is what is needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who says you need a police state? I'm merely talking about adding rules to encourage and enforce order on the forums. And no one wants growth for the sake of growth. A small site that is efficient and has a high number of contributing members will always be better than a large site where the sheer volume of junk posts dilute the contributing members.
Plus, at the end of the day, all anyone really has on the internet is a voice. Thus, the ban remains the most effective method of controlling poor conduct.

It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do

TheRomMistress said:
It appears you guys have not read the site admins latest announcement...I advice u do
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That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.

github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.

github said:
That's fine and all. But does it address the time it takes to actually report problem posts (instead of just complain about them)? Having to PM forum mods that either gave up on your forum, or don't even visit that forum isn't exactly encouraging.
Or will the forums stop becoming void of moderators (like over in EVO 4G land, where I can't remember the last time we had moderator participation besides the banhammer here and there, or moved threads that I report). Will we start seeing more moderator participation?
Of course, my last posts here were worded to spark conversation (and that they did). I am happy to see this latest development, but still feel that it falls short of what is needed. Hopefully there is more in the works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cajunflavoredbob said:
The report system is being reworked. The site improvements will take some time to roll out fully. Things are going back to the earlier days here. Everyone needs to learn how to act right or reap what they sow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said

Thanks. I actually moved this into it's own post/question, as it is kind of offtopic from what OP was discussing.

Huawei sponsorship of XDA?

I'm going to apologize in advance if this has been covered elsewhere and I do not intend to stir the pot. Some time ago, when surfing XDA for info, I found references to sponsorship or funding by Huawei. (Admittedly, I don't seem to see that anymore.) Given that there are at least some concerns about Huawei's relationship with the Chinese government, could someone clarify for me if there is such a sponsorship or involvement by Huawei?

CheapDad said:
I'm going to apologize in advance if this has been covered elsewhere and I do not intend to stir the pot. Some time ago, when surfing XDA for info, I found references to sponsorship or funding by Huawei. (Admittedly, I don't seem to see that anymore.) Given that there are at least some concerns about Huawei's relationship with the Chinese government, could someone clarify for me if there is such a sponsorship or involvement by Huawei?
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I don't know why you are surprised by legal sponsorship. After all, you can find links through google, such as this one:
Dive into Digital at HUAWEI CONNECT
www.xda-developers.com
where it directly says:
We thank HUAWEI for sponsoring this post. Our sponsors help us pay for the many costs associated with running XDA, including server costs, full time developers, news writers, and much more. While you might see sponsored content (which will always be labeled as such) alongside Portal content, the Portal team is in no way responsible for these posts. Sponsored content, advertising and XDA Depot are managed by a separate team entirely. XDA will never compromise its journalistic integrity by accepting money to write favorably about a company, or alter our opinions or views in any way. Our opinion cannot be bought.*
*) I have bolded the most important part, in my opinion.

Thank you for that information. The impression that I received, some time ago, was that Huawei was sponsoring the entire site, not just a particular post. If that's incorrect, then any concerns are alieviated.