Develop Bugs

General rooting question

Hello all, I'm new to smartphones, Android, xda and rooting in general, but I understand the concept, value and associated risks. I'm following the thread by toastcfh in the EVO Development forum about how to root the EVO, but I don't want to clutter it up with such a basic question, so I'm posting it here.
I want to have root access in order to get rid of bloatware, play with custom roms and just generally have full access to my EVO. I do NOT, however, want to get in over my head. I want to develop a better understanding of Android before taking full advantage of what rooting offers. My concern is that if I don't root it as soon as I get it, HTC will patch the holes and I won't be able to do so later.
So here is my question: Can I root the darn thing when I get it on 6/4 and continue to run Sprint's delivered ROM? Then, as I accumulate more knowledge and experience, start to dig deeper into the OS and make use of what root has to offer? Also, can Sprint or HTC "un-root" a device via an OTA update or something similar? Sorry if these are noob questions, but as a noob, they're all I've got.
Oh, and thanks to all the folks who make this site so informative. It truly is a great resource.

You can root and remove your bloatware and even continue to use the stock ROM if you want. You can flash custom ROMs as you see fit. Remember, flashing a Sprint update will most likely unroot your device, so you should always just get a custom ROM based off the latest update instead of flashing the official updates. If you need to send your phone to Sprint you can always unroot with one of these official updates so they will never know about your root.

TheBiles said:
You can root and remove your bloatware and even continue to use the stock ROM if you want. You can flash custom ROMs as you see fit. Remember, flashing a Sprint update will most likely unroot your device, so you should always just get a custom ROM based off the latest update instead of flashing the official updates. If you need to send your phone to Sprint you can always unroot with one of these official updates so they will never know about your root.
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Thanks for the info.... I'm a noob as well, and am counting on you guys with your wealth of experience to show us the way.

TheBiles said:
You can root and remove your bloatware and even continue to use the stock ROM if you want. You can flash custom ROMs as you see fit. Remember, flashing a Sprint update will most likely unroot your device, so you should always just get a custom ROM based off the latest update instead of flashing the official updates. If you need to send your phone to Sprint you can always unroot with one of these official updates so they will never know about your root.
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Thanks for the speedy response! Regarding Sprint updates, is this something that you must accept discretely via a keystroke or check box or something similar? Can you set the phone to not check for updates until you tell it to, or will it prompt the user on some sort of routine basis?

erikivy said:
Thanks for the speedy response! Regarding Sprint updates, is this something that you must accept discretely via a keystroke or check box or something similar? Can you set the phone to not check for updates until you tell it to, or will it prompt the user on some sort of routine basis?
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If it is the same with the Hero, OTA updates won't work on a custom ROM. I'm also sure that you can decline an OTA update on the stock ROM.

TheBiles said:
If it is the same with the Hero, OTA updates won't work on a custom ROM. I'm also sure that you can decline an OTA update on the stock ROM.
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Click to collapse
Perfect! Thanks again.

What happens if you get the Froyo 2.2 update?

If one of us happens to get the update, and want to keep root....what do you want us to do with the update?

Don't install it. I'm not sure how to do that with an Android device.
However if it does get installed you will lose root. It could also cause some problems if it gets pushed to your phone.
The devs will have a rooted version of the rom before they will have a root method for the rom.

I think it is safe to say, if you want to keep Root, ignore the update prompt, and wait for the developers here to make rooted versions of the ROM.
The original firmware was rooted before the phone came out. (I don't know how long it took developers to actually Root the phone, since I don't know how long they had the developers release in their hands).
When the 1.47 OTA came out, it broke root, and became a mad scramble to try to re-root the phone. If I remember right, it took a couple weeks to find the workaround that would allow root.
It is a good bet that the new release WILL break root again, and there is no telling how long it will be before it can be rooted again, if ever.

is this a serious question? most updates will remove all hacked/homebrew stuff been hapning since the begining of time.......(i.e. PSP, Nintendo Wii, iPhone/touch......)just dont update...take this stuff to yahoo answers.

Rocklee99 said:
If one of us happens to get the update, and want to keep root....what do you want us to do with the update?
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Click to collapse
Update lose root. Period. Just wait.

ohh geez, be prepared for all of the topics like "just updated to sprints official froyo update and lost root can i root it back?" my gawd its gonna get annoying

i guess this is a noob question, but how long does it take to get a rooted stock rome of this 2.2? i would assume not too long correct?

usually same day.. its all about patience which there is little of.. i can guarantee you will have a stock rooted rom by this weeks end

Once on 2.2, no root....

What's the best way to get rooted. I've tried te avalauncher way, they tell me I have to be rooted to use it. I've tried the simple root OTA, but when it's suppose to take you to factory restore, my phone goes to a backup/restore screen, so it fails cause I can't restore it. Please give me assistance.
I am running 2.2 from a manual install. No root.

You have to wait until the guys here find a way for p eople to root once they have 2.2 . That could take anywhere from a few days to a few weeks

Most likely you are NOT going to be able to root since you ran the OTA update for 2.2....
That is why you should read what you are flashing and know the consequences prior to doing so. Every thread that contained the download for the 2.2 leak said that it will make you lose root and the ability ( for now ) to gain root status.
You need to wait until one of the geniuses figure out a way to do it.
Sorry about your luck.

The best way is toast method...
Good luck!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

UND3RTAK3R said:
The best way is toast method...you can email me if you have any problems [email protected]
Good luck!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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Not gonna work since he used the 2.2 update man.

EVOme said:
What's the best way to get rooted. I've tried te avalauncher way, they tell me I have to be rooted to use it. I've tried the simple root OTA, but when it's suppose to take you to factory restore, my phone goes to a backup/restore screen, so it fails cause I can't restore it. Please give me assistance.
I am running 2.2 from a manual install. No root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. wrong forum, should be in Q&A
2. if you did the manual update from Sprint, you will have to wait until the devs here create a root method for stock 2.2 is developed. Any existing root method will not work at all.

EVOme said:
What's the best way to get rooted. I've tried te avalauncher way, they tell me I have to be rooted to use it. I've tried the simple root OTA, but when it's suppose to take you to factory restore, my phone goes to a backup/restore screen, so it fails cause I can't restore it. Please give me assistance.
I am running 2.2 from a manual install. No root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You installed the plain OTA update? The one that says "not rooted yet" on the thread title?
For each new update, HTC tries to protect its software from being rooted. The last update required users to exploit a Flash Lite vulnerability and took a while. You will probably have to wait a long time before you can root this, since it doesn't have Flash Lite.
For future reference, root first THEN update to a rooted rom released by our devs. You can't just install Ava's rom on top of stock 2.2, it prevents you from doing so.

I'm sorry but HOW MANY posts were there saying if you want to keep root, DO NOT INSTALL THE UPDATE?? Ugh...
And yes I know this isn't constructive but sometimes people just need a slap on the back if the head.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

I'm in the same boat. After trying hard to resist the urge, I gave in and installed the leak. After finding the rooted version, I tried to use the 1.47 RUU to go back but it error-ed out. I'm so bummed I can't go back. Oh well; I knew the risk I was taking though so I guess I have to live with it...

Hours my my day wasted....HOURS!!!
Where's my AR-15

Wow, just wow.

I just had a thought: If there is no method for rooting yet, then how are the stock roms being rooted?

Here we go again
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

bludragon742 said:
I just had a thought: If there is no method for rooting yet, then how are the stock roms being rooted?
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Click to collapse
By digging thru it and finding an exploit.
Which will most likely happen for the 2.2 update as well, just not as of yet.

bludragon742 said:
I just had a thought: If there is no method for rooting yet, then how are the stock roms being rooted?
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Click to collapse
With a ROM, you can run through the zip file and essentially take out the parts that would remove root and modify as you see fit to put on an already rooted device -- the device isn't running all the security checks on the ROM, since it's already been rooted to remove those. Much easier, almost trivial.
If you have a non-rooted device, though, you have to find a way to get the device, not the ROM, rooted. The device isn't going to take an unofficial ROM. Big difference, since you have to exploit something already on the device somehow. With the last OTA update, it was Flash Lite that could be exploited for root access to the device. With this one, no one has found a method to root the device once the OTA has been applied (and probably won't really try that hard until the official version is released, in case it closes any exploits that are in the version floating around now).

xeno314 said:
With a ROM, you can run through the zip file and essentially take out the parts that would remove root and modify as you see fit to put on an already rooted device -- the device isn't running all the security checks on the ROM, since it's already been rooted to remove those. Much easier, almost trivial.
If you have a non-rooted device, though, you have to find a way to get the device, not the ROM, rooted. The device isn't going to take an unofficial ROM. Big difference, since you have to exploit something already on the device somehow. With the last OTA update, it was Flash Lite that could be exploited for root access to the device. With this one, no one has found a method to root the device once the OTA has been applied (and probably won't really try that hard until the official version is released, in case it closes any exploits that are in the version floating around now).
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Click to collapse
Beat me to it and said it better.

bludragon742 said:
I'm in the same boat. After trying hard to resist the urge, I gave in and installed the leak. After finding the rooted version, I tried to use the 1.47 RUU to go back but it error-ed out. I'm so bummed I can't go back. Oh well; I knew the risk I was taking though so I guess I have to live with it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea how it was "hard to resist" when AVA's rooted version showed up at 5:30pm and netarchy's showed up around 9pm. They showed up before any official sprint OTA. Lets also not forget the hundreds of posts warning people that this would happen.
bludragon742 said:
I just had a thought: If there is no method for rooting yet, then how are the stock roms being rooted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "rooting method" allows you to get into restricted areas of the phone to install stuff. The act of rooting is breaking into the phone itself, not into the rom. The rom itself is fully accessable and can be hacked up, its just getting it onto the phone is the hard part.
Essentially your phone, stock, is a box that's locked from the inside. For older versions people figured out how to unlock it, so that you can put any hacked up rom onto it. The new OTA, no one knows how to get in yet.
Don't know if that makes sense. It's pretty easy to understand if you understand OS permissions.
EDIT: what the other guy said.

bludragon742 said:
I just had a thought: If there is no method for rooting yet, then how are the stock roms being rooted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because someone takes the CONTENT of the update, and applies it piece-by-piece to an already rooted image, ignoring the bits that replace HBOOT and etc.

Mad06STi said:
I have no idea how it was "hard to resist" when AVA's rooted version showed up at 5:30pm and netarchy's showed up around 9pm. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll tell you why. The thread gets to 200 pages. There are people saying it works, sucks, bricks, awesome, hate it, stay away, success, etc. After reading 40 pages of it you have no idea up from down. Speaking from someone that is not familiar with Android rooting. It's frustrating. Then you go to one of the other 50 threads and it's all the same.
I never saw anywhere that if I installed the leak i'd be screwed. I'm fine with that though. I have 2.2 and can wait. Just annoyed i've spent hours of my day on this.

This thread was a funny read.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

[Q]Going from 4.22 to 4.24 OTA if you kept it stock and rooted will keep the root?

Going from 4.22 to 4.24 OTA if you kept it stock and rooted will keep the root?
Going from 4.22 to 4.24 was just bug fixing and does not touch any part of the phone other than those bugs?
okay, so is this true? I have yet to see a real answer of yes or no. I saw people with 2-3 posts saying it. but need an expert opinion on this? It takes a long ass time to put my phone back to how it was when I do a full wipe/flash. just trying to save some time. Don't have time to sit and wait 2-3 hours for my phone to recover. so the OTA doesn't in any form or way touch bootloader or root or anything that would cause damage to the OS? of course talking about the 6M one. lol

runcool said:
Going from 4.22 to 4.24 OTA if you kept it stock and rooted will keep the root?
Going from 4.22 to 4.24 was just bug fixing and does not touch any part of the phone other than those bugs?
okay, so is this true? I have yet to see a real answer of yes or no. I saw people with 2-3 posts saying it. but need an expert opinion on this? It takes a long ass time to put my phone back to how it was when I do a full wipe/flash. just trying to save some time. Don't have time to sit and wait 2-3 hours for my phone to recover. so the OTA doesn't in any form or way touch bootloader or root or anything that would cause damage to the OS? of course talking about the 6M one. lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't chance it. There were a couple of OTA's back in the day that didn't touch the bootloader (that I was aware of) that caused people to lose root. In particular this affected me because one of the updates didn't have a root exploit and I needed to wait a week or two to root my phone (so...awful...haha)

I mainly want to know if someone has done it on this exact update and if it worked or didn't work. :-D

runcool said:
I mainly want to know if someone has done it on this exact update and if it worked or didn't work. :-D
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The only people who would have done it are people who don't read in the first place. If they did read, they'd know that nobody recommends accepting an OTA when you're rooted. So since anyone who's tried what you're asking doesn't read, they won't have read your post either.
You will lose root access when you accept the OTA. Normally you can get it back if you're S-OFF, though there's always some level of risk if they really wanted to get serious about locking people out. But there's no reason to try, since you can go here and just flash a rooted version of the ROM. You'll end up doing that anyway if you want to have root access, so you're wasting time and taking a risk by accepting the OTA.
You should be able to flash the updated rooted rom without wiping data -- just wipe cache and dalvik cache and then flash it.

I'll try it next weekend. lol. just didn't want to spend time doing it. haha

runcool said:
I'll try it next weekend. lol. just didn't want to spend time doing it. haha
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Click to collapse
Use recovery to do a nandroid (include android_secure and ext3 in the backup if you use them), and then there's really no risk of losing your setup. You can always restore back to where you are. A Titanium Backup run is also quite useful. But like I said, you should be able to flash the rooted 4.24 ROM over the rooted 4.22 you're running with only a wipe of cache and dalvik. That's basically how the OTA does the upgrade for non-rooted users.

Yes you can update without losing root as long as you have used either the newest unrevoked method for evo's OR unrevoked forever. Just do not update over the air, as in just download it but do not install it. Follow this link step by step:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1109272

It's never a good idea to accept an ota update if you are rooted.

mizzouse said:
Yes you can update without losing root as long as you have used either the newest unrevoked method for evo's OR unrevoked forever. Just do not update over the air, as in just download it but do not install it. Follow this link step by step:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1109272
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Click to collapse
But that's if you're going from the old one to the completely new one. I'm going from 4.22 to 4.24
The instructions given are flat out wrong and don't even work. the OTA isn't in the cache folder. I've checked. errrrrrrrr. sounds like it needs to be updated. that thread is clearly upgrading to 22, not 24.
Well, I'm just going to use clockworkmod to install it. lmao Will this work?

Flash one of the roms in the development section. Wipe cache and dalvik like stated and go on about your way without risking your root status.
Besides that, if you did first flash a deodexed 4.22 from here and try to apply the sprint 4.24 patch you will have a system conflict between the odex and deodex files

To help answer your question, if you're currently rooted and accept the OTA, you will loose root access, BUT as long as you don't flash the S-On tool you will still be able to flash after downloading a custom recovery such as Amon_Ra and then continue flashing whatever you want. I have done this to many phones since the update and haven't had a single problem yet. But if you flash S-On, you're screwed until they are able to hack the new Bootloader.
Even after accepting the OTA and having S-Off, your hBoot will update but you Can go back to Froyo if desired and hBoot will change back to Froyo compatible 2.10 not 2.16. So I hope my answer helps and will let you know what you're looking for!

I installed the 22 odex version. and I am now at this second doing the 24 odex version. so hope everything goes well. haha. if not. made a backup. so hope the backup works. :-D Just trying to avoid spending hours on getting my phone back in order because downage means money and time lost.
EDIT= so CONFIRMING that going from 22 to 24 with going through clockworkmod completely works without any issues. I was just afraid to do it. hahahaha just as long as you don't wipe data and cache

Upgrade from 4.1.2 to 4.3?

Hello,
I haven't been here in so long. After reading through the forum I am a little confused.
I am on stock 4.1.2, rooted, and using CW recovery.
I see all the discussion about not updating to 4.3, but I'm not sure if what I have read is up to date or not.
Is there still a problem updating to 4.3? KNOX?
How should I update to 4.3? Do it need to undo root and go back to stock recovery? I'm not sure how to do this. I have used custom ROMS in the past but it's been too long.
Also, it seems that rooting 4.3 is no problem. Is this true?
Thanks,
rblancrt

rblancrt said:
Hello,
I haven't been here in so long. After reading through the forum I am a little confused.
I am on stock 4.1.2, rooted, and using CW recovery.
I see all the discussion about not updating to 4.3, but I'm not sure if what I have read is up to date or not.
Is there still a problem updating to 4.3? KNOX?
How should I update to 4.3? Do it need to undo root and go back to stock recovery? I'm not sure how to do this. I have used custom ROMS in the past but it's been too long.
Also, it seems that rooting 4.3 is no problem. Is this true?
Thanks,
rblancrt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, you can upgrade to 4.3 if you want to
the reason why people said not to upgrade to 4.3 is because a lot of people DO NOT READ and come asking for help this or that after they upgrade
and the main reason why people mention not to upgrade is because you can unlock for free as long as you can downgrade your phone to 4.1.1, mainly the bootloader since 4.3 bootloader comes with KNOX
since you're still on 4.1.2, you can downgrade and unlock your phone for free while you still can before upgrading it to 4.3
so this is what you should do, check, if your phone is fully unlocked, if not, unlock it then upgrade
or if you're rich and you don't care, just upgrade and then if you wish to unlock later, pay for unlock code =D
and rooting shouldn't be any problem regardless of which version of android you're on.
to upgrade, you can just download the stock img and flash it through recovery or just use odin flash it
or if you're prefer the old fashion way, the long way in fact, is to unroot, upgrade through system update

I would say don't upgrade. The new bootloader has a warranty bit (aka the Knox counter) that, once tripped, can't be reset. Ever. By anyone. The ONLY way I would even consider upgrading is if you need Knox security for work (the majority of us don't). I wouldn't even upgrade if I were selling the device. Let the new owner make that decision for themself. But, I would unlock it. Even if you never need it, it may add a few bucks to the selling price of the phone later on.

mrhaley30705 said:
I would say don't upgrade. The new bootloader has a warranty bit (aka the Knox counter) that, once tripped, can't be reset. Ever. By anyone. The ONLY way I would even consider upgrading is if you need Knox security for work (the majority of us don't). I wouldn't even upgrade if I were selling the device. Let the new owner make that decision for themself. But, I would unlock it. Even if you never need it, it may add a few bucks to the selling price of the phone later on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what exactly is the effect of this Knox counter. If it's only that I can't reflash a stock ROM and send it back to Samsung that time has long passed.
I guess I'm getting bored with my phone, had it almost two years, and thought updating to the latest firmware might help.
What are the repercussions of going to 4.3 or higher?
Thanks again for the great info.

If you are out of warranty, the only drawback, imo, to updating is you cannot downgrade the firmware or modem. You could still flash older roms and kernels, just not the full firmware and not the modem.
Personally, I wouldn't let knox deter me from updating, or recommending it. This is for each person to decide, but I feel the benefits outweigh any drawbacks. knox is easily removed or disabled, and I find the latest builds to be some of the best in terms of performance and battery. (of course there are always some who disagree with that on every update!) of course there are no guarantees, but most seem to be quite happy with both 4.3 and 4.4.2.
As for downgrading.....I have never found a real need for doing so. Some have though, so thats something you need to decide for yourself.
You can try some of the available roms w/o updating the firmware btw. But if you decide you like them, I do suggest going back and fully updating for stability and performance, but thats something for you to decide if you want to go that route.
There will be some who agree and some who do not, so in the end its up to you make an educated decision whether or not you want to.