Develop Bugs

Is TP2 battery life affected by partial charge-discharge cycles

Hi All,
When cellphones first came out, it was recommended to use the battery till it was almost empty and then charge it fully. This would maintain the batterys charge carrying capacity.
I wanted to ask if this still holds true with the TP2 and the new Li-Ion batteries?
Specifically, if you keep charging the TP2 every night (lets say when it is at always at 60% capacity and charge it to 100% by morning), will it substantially decrease battery life?
Thoughts would be welcome!

There are a few schools of thought on that one, and to be sure, since you have opened the can, all the worms are now about your feet
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Have fun putting them back in the tin again
Seriously, now...
Li-ion batteries do not suffer from the old Ni-Cad "memory effect". They suffer a loss of capacity and charge efficiency instead.
There's a rather good article on this over on wikipedia (link), but the long and the short of it is that for every charge, whether partial or full, the battery's ability to retain a full charge for a long period of time is lessened.
Thus, the longer you have the Li-Ion battery, and the more you recharge it, the more pronounced the effect, to the point where a couple of years down the line, the battery will take a full charge alright, but it might only hold that charge for a couple of hours at best.
The next stage in mobile device power cells will be Lithium Polymer (link), but that's new (relatively) tech, and there are a few problems in charging them - they require very specific charging handling to be safe/efficient.
Hope the above helps

Apologies
Apologies, but a detailed answer to this has already been posted in the Wiki. I should have read that first.
In a nutshell though it seems like this problem is not there anymore. Infact it is recommended to charge from a partially charged state as compared to a fully discharge state. Please read teh Wiki for more information

Thanks!
Roger Stenning: Thanks!
Also, people may want to take a look at the forums Wiki (not Wikipedia) to get more views
Over and out

Simple. LiIon batteries like being charged early and often. Don't deep discharge them unnecessarily. However, it is not necessary to plug them into the wall every time you get off the phone. My typical charge cycle is overnight and in the afternoon at work I'll charge the phone, that has always gotten me through the whole day on my last 3-4 different phones.

I always end up charging my phone up often, mainly because I use it as my mp3 player, so don't want to run out of charge whilst walking. With replacement batteries at £20 off quid I don't see it as too much as a problem.

Oh yeah, almost forgot - if you don't want to charge the phone while you're synching with your PC, go to settings -> all settings -> power and check the box "When device is turned on, do not charge the battery when connected to the PC."

Dear all,
There's a really useful guide to maintaining laptop and phone batteries from Battery University, cut into a short overview at http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/07/beginners_battery_maintenance/
Definately worth a read and busts a lot of the myths out there.
Adam.

Everyone seems to agree that keeping a battery charged is the best way to go.
Yet common sense tells me that since the optimum storage charge is 50%, then the battery might last the longest if it's operated around that level.
In other words, if your battery is around 60-70% and you can afford that, don't charge it until it drops to maybe 30-40%, then charge it back to 70%.
Does that make any sense?

not realy, I'm afraid. Read the wiki I linked to - you'll see that when a Lithium-Ion battery is charged, resistive deposits collect inside the electrolyte, causing the battery to be able to maintain a full charge for less time after each successive charging cycle. It's therefore best to charge the battery to its' fullest capacity each time, and allow it to drop to (my personal preference for Li-Io kit) no lower then 20% or so, so as to maximise the usable life of the battery. I can show you an Li_Io battery from my last pda/phone, an HP iPAQ hw6915, where the battery is so knackered that it'll only hold a charge for an hour - at best. That, after two years of partial charges due to repeated resyncs and concequential recharging in the interface cradle.
Hope the above helps you with a reasonably informed decision

RogerStenning said:
not realy, I'm afraid. Read the wiki I linked to - you'll see that when a Lithium-Ion battery is charged, resistive deposits collect inside the electrolyte, causing the battery to be able to maintain a full charge for less time after each successive charging cycle. It's therefore best to charge the battery to its' fullest capacity each time, and allow it to drop to (my personal preference for Li-Io kit) no lower then 20% or so, so as to maximise the usable life of the battery. I can show you an Li_Io battery from my last pda/phone, an HP iPAQ hw6915, where the battery is so knackered that it'll only hold a charge for an hour - at best. That, after two years of partial charges due to repeated resyncs and concequential recharging in the interface cradle.
Hope the above helps you with a reasonably informed decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're reading it wrong.. A charge cycle does not mean you plugged in the charger, it means it's a full cycle. Not necessarily from 0, but charging it 2-3% while your syncing would not be considered a "charge cycle".

khaytsus said:
I think you're reading it wrong.. A charge cycle does not mean you plugged in the charger, it means it's a full cycle. Not necessarily from 0, but charging it 2-3% while your syncing would not be considered a "charge cycle".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whenever current goes in, that's "charging". The more you do it, the less the battery holds. Period. It doesn't matter if you didn't get it all the way "full" or not, it matters if you plugged it in. Basically, using a rechargeable battery wears it out. I know, it's hard to believe. Discharging a cell completely wears it out extra fast. Don't do that.
FYI, the Prius never tries to never discharge it's (NiMH) battery below 40%, nor charge it over 60%. It does this to maximize the life span of the cells, but of course, it means your battery has a whole lot less usable capacity. It's a trade-off.
"Memory effect" basically doesn't exist, not in any circumstances you've ever encountered. I recommend reading this:
Dan's Quick Guide to Memory Effect, You Idiots

godefroi said:
FYI, the Prius never tries to never discharge it's (NiMH) battery below 40%, nor charge it over 60%. It does this to maximize the life span of the cells, but of course, it means your battery has a whole lot less usable capacity. It's a trade-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's true, then it's basically what I said, except not in such an extreme. And the other guy said "oh no, not really".

acrh2 said:
If that's true, then it's basically what I said, except not in such an extreme. And the other guy said "oh no, not really".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, I'm reinforcing what you said.

QUESTION! battery discharge
godefroi said:
Right, I'm reinforcing what you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found this old thread! Had a question. I have had the TP2 since it came out, I used to only have to charge it every other day or every 3 days. Now it is loosing charge quickly. Half a day at best. A day max with medium use, when medium use for 2 1/2 days killed the battery.
What is going on? Have Nue installed, seems that the voltage discharging is normal. But it seems to also drop from 10-0 REALLY quickly too. For instance, last two recharges have gone from 10 percent to 8 to 6 to 1% (nue showed it as 2 for about 30 seconds then it too showed at 1%.
What is going on with my battery?

Evo Charging Times

Can you help me out here? I'm a new Evo owner, but I have a background in electronics which spans nearly 50 years and a fairly comprehensive "technical" knowledge of lithium polymer batteries, chargers, and battery management protocols.
And I want to understand the issues that so many of you are experiencing with your Evo batteries. Why? Because I'm experiencing some of 'em too and if I understand what's happening I might be able to offer solutions. I already have a couple of theories and I even have some ideas for workarounds, but I'm missing a few pieces of the puzzle which I'm hoping you can help me find.
What I'd like to know is how long does it take you to recharge a dead or nearly depleted battery in your Evo. For this information to be useful I'll also need to know the size of the battery (in mAh) and the output of the charger (in mA).
Please note that I'm just as interested in how long it takes to charge a stock battery as I am in how long it takes to charge an extended battery. Likewise for wimpy chargers and high-output chargers. The more diverse the data is the more useful it will be.
So there you have it. Can you help me out? I'll be sharing my conclusions so you might be helping yourself too.
Pete

Reserved for data summary

2 hrs and 20 minutes roughly from dead to full. Stock battery, stock charging cable and adapter.

same, 2 hr 20 min dead to full 1500mAh charging at 1A. i average about 30hrs battery life.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Interesting. In round figures a 2:20 (2.3hr) charge time for a 1500mAh battery indicates a ~650mA charge rate. This suggests that HTC has built a ~650mA charging current regulator into the Evo because a 1000mA (1A) charge rate would charge a 1500mAh battery in a little over 1.5hr.
The regulated charge rate isn't at all surprising. In fact, it's standard practice in consumer electronics devices. Most LiPo cells can safely be charged at 1C, which would be 1500mA (1.5A) for a 1500mAh battery, but they can react explosively when pushed harder. The folks who engineer consumer electronics also tend to stay well below maximum rates because they need to assume (among other things) that some people will continue to use batteries that are worn out or damaged and really should be replaced.
My primary reason for posting this thread and asking this question is to get enough evidence to determine whether the Evo could be charged faster with more powerful chargers, and the answer seems to be no. It can obviously be charged slower if someone uses a charger with an output below 650mA, but I'd be surprised if it could be charged any faster with a more powerful charger.
And FWIW, a dead 3500mAh battery would take about 5.4hrs to charge at a 650mA charge rate. My guess is this is even how long it will take in Seidio's external charger because the engineers would have to assume that people will also be charging OEM batteries in them.
But this is all assumption based on common engineering practices and 2 reports (so far). I'd sure like to have some more data to work with; especially data for different chargers and battery capacities. Another question I'd like to answer is whether the Evo has a mAh cap or a time limit on a charge cycle. The mAh cap could be tough, but a time limit might be pretty easy to work around.
I suppose I should add one more thing: My job as a maintenance supervisor for a pharmaceutical manufacturing and analytical lab requires that I'm reachable by phone at all times, so the experimentation I can do with my own phone is pretty limited. For example, I can't turn it off to charge the battery and I feel real uneasy about running the battery dead for testing purposes. My phone use habits seem to be served pretty well by the 1500mAh OEM battery but I'd like to have the reserve of an extended battery.
But not at the expense of having to remove the battery from the phone to charge it. That's a deal-breaker for me.
The bottom line is: Please keep posting your charge times and don't forget to include the output of the charger and the mAh rating of the battery. In return, I'll share any conclusions I come to so we can discuss them and possibly come up with a workable solution.
Pete

I'm draining my Sprint OEM extended battery (2600 mAh) and will post the results.

sk63 said:
I'm draining my Sprint OEM extended battery (2600 mAh) and will post the results.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will be an interesting comparison.
If my calculation of a 650mAh charge rate is correct then it should take a little over 4 hours to charge, but that could be affected by whether the phone is on or off and what processes and apps are running if it's on.
I'm particularly interested in whether it will fully-charge or whether a mAh or time limit will interrupt the charge cycle before that happens.
Pete

It finally died and I started charging it at 12:25 without turning it back on. Using the stock AC charger.
Anecdotally, I use the Current Widget and when charging it hovers around 650mAh. And when discharging it's usually under 400mAh and with the screen off, well under 100mAh.
I believe the widget monitors the current in/out of the battery and that while charging, the current needed to run the phone bypasses the battery directly so the widget doesn't register it. Though I would need a multimeter to confirm.
I've also got the stock battery I'm draining using a Hero. After the extended finishes charging them I'll swap and charge while the phone is on and compare the rate.
EDIT: Extended took almost exactly 4 hours charge. Now testing the charge rate of the stock battery with the phone on.

Glad to see someone doing this, as a lot of different information is posted on this board about batteries and charging.
I just wanted to add that when looking at current widget logs, the charging rate does seem to change depending on the battery life, as you get close to full the charging rate does seem to gradually decrease until it is quite low, at least according to current widget. I have seen other users say that it is only the last ten percent that the phone does this, but I can't be too sure as using my phone usually interrupts the log and such.
At least the current widget logs give some indication of the charging rate changing under different conditions, if not at least the phone using more or less current for these conditions.

sk63 said:
Anecdotally, I use the Current Widget and when charging it hovers around 650mAh.
~~~ snippo ~~~
EDIT: Extended took almost exactly 4 hours charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Boy, I hit those two nails right on the head didn't I? That's the nice thing about electricity: It can easily be predicted with mathematics.
I'll be looking as soon as I post this, but where does one find this "current widget" and does it run on a non-rooted phone?
And sk63: Almost exactly? Thanks for the info!
Pete

PGRtoo said:
And sk63: Almost exactly? Thanks for the info!
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was like 4 hours +/- 5 minutes missed the exact moment when the light when green.
Stock battery with phone turned on took close to four hours as well. Phone usage didn't seem particularly high, maybe there was an issue in swapping the batteries.

So I'm guessing the 800 ma aftermarket charging cable I bought would be sufficient?
** As a sidenote, I wonder if this 650 ma limitation is hardware or software enforced? If software enforced, could we turn it off to hit closer to 1 amp? Couldn't a developer write an app to fix this? If not an app, perhaps a kernel?
This is kind of like a CPU being rated at 3.0 Ghz when it can safely run at 3.8 Ghz by people that know what they are doing. The 650 ma limitation is just "idiot" proofing.

If current widget is accurate, when charging I've seen my log read up to 900mah, I always figured this was how much current going into the battery. The more I use the phone the lower it goes.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

2:20 hours for a full charge? Dang, it only takes me about 1:27 to charge my dead battery to 100% with the phone on, stock battery.

Are you asking about higher mA chargers for the purpose of charging the stock OEM battery faster, or for being able to simply charge a higher capacity battery?
Does charging the battery faster have any negative or positive affects on the battery or battery life? Because I seem to remember posts talking about the differences between charger the evo with a stock battery from the wall charger vs charger from a usb on a computer. The wall charger would charge the battery much faster, but seemed to drain faster also. With the usb charger, charging took a longer time, but some were saying that it also lengthened the battery life (charge cycle). Now I don't remember if those were completely accurate results, but I suppose it made sense. But if it was true that a slower charge made for a longer battery life, whats really the difference? At that point, does it come down to battery/cell structure? Because electricity is electricity, for the charger its all dc. So how is the charging rate regulated when plugged into the computer?
These are just things that this thread has made me think of. My conclusion though, is that in regards to battery life, any fixes would all on the software side for now, at least if we are using the stock 1500mA battery. And every 10 people on this board have 15 different ways to increase battery life, whether through a certain rom or what-not.
I also read in another post, that battery technology is not advancing as fast as cellular technology is. So at the end of the day, we have an awesome phone that can literally do almost anything, shorter battery life was to be expected. But its no where near as bad as people were saying it was before june 6th (public launch date).

Just to throw in my .02 cents here...
The battery capacity of 1500mah is hardcoded into the evo's system.
This means that even the sprint extended battery suffers from the flaw of not being charged properly in the evo just like the seidios. I own the sprint extended and the seidios and they both demonstrate the same charging flaw while charging in the evo.
The hardcode is seen while the phone is on. While the phone is off it's possible there is some sort of hardware limitations imposed to keep the full battery capacity locked at 1500mah.
I have been looking into a way to possibly overwrite this hardcode on a rooted evo but so far my efforts have been null.

i believe temperature greatly effects charging and battery life as well.
my makita power tools have a 30 minute rapid charger and in order to get such quick charge times it uses a fan to cool the battery during the charge. the charger includes circuitry to slow down the charge rate if the temperature can't remain cool enough as well.
lithium ion batteries as well.
just shows ya, the batteries likely could charge much faster, but you'd have to incorporate some extra cooling so they don't get damaged.
i'd imagine the OP's assumption is about right.

jasongthang said:
But if it was true that a slower charge made for a longer battery life, whats really the difference? At that point, does it come down to battery/cell structure? Because electricity is electricity, for the charger its all dc. So how is the charging rate regulated when plugged into the computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stock Evo battery pack contains a single 1500mAh 3.7V lithium-ion polymer (LiPo) cell. I haven't actually opened one up, but the larger "extended" battery packs probably contain a pair of 3.7V lithium-ion polymer cells wired in parallel which, for all practical purposes, is the electrical equivalent of a larger single cell.
Regardless, LiPo cells don't care whether you charge them slowly or quickly (within reason). There is no electrical or chemical reason why a LiPo that is charged slowly will release it's energy any differently than a LiPo that is charged quickly. The only difference might be that one which is constantly charged at a maximum rate may not be capable of as many charge-discharge cycles before it loses significant capacity. That, by the way, is what the phrase "cycle-life" refers to: The number of charge-discharge cycles a battery is capable of before it wears out.
And neither the internal charging circuit in the Evo or the Seidio external charger will charge a battery at anywhere near the most widely accepted maximum rate for a LiPo (1C). If they did they would charge a dead battery in about an hour.
Pete

Got LiPos?
Here are just a few of mine. The big ones are out in the hangar (garage).
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Pete

PGRtoo said:
Here are just a few of mine. The big ones are out in the hangar (garage).
Pete
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Those deans plugs piss me off sometimes. R/C enthusiast I take it.

Found possible proper battery Calibration for mango Update beta

After updating my HTC HD7 to mango update Beta, i found the battery draining faster than Nodo. With Nodo a proper HTC soft reset could do the trick sometimes but the soft reset does not seem to calibrate the battery. On HTC website its stated that "Perform a soft (normal) reset to clear all active program memory and shut down all active programs. This is useful when your phone is running slower than normal, or a program is not performing properly....". Nowhere in the htc website says soft reset calibrates battery, what it actually does is fresh boot up of OS
here is what i found out after days of experimenting
the battery indicator is inaccurate because mango changed the core OS
to a new one probably screwing up the battery indicator too. if u expereince unusual short battery life while during usage, or in standby with push and radios oN. The battery indicator is overestimating and showing 100% when it could probably be 50 % or some other value. Hence the reason why the battery is being used up faster because its not showing the real charge. Imagine u take a container and fill up to to 50% only and some kind of indicator show that its 100%. indicator tries to catch up with the false reading as the battery drops in usage hence giving the scenario of battery draining faster than usual. So the solution is not to charge it repeatedly to 100% because the charge indicator will still show as inaccurate since the circuitry cuts of charging at 100% indicator and shuts down at 0% with the false reading range. Many references recommend to charge the battery overnight for 8 hours or so., or leave it to trickle charge ect This is wrong because this works only for fresh new batteries that are not "primed"
I let the phone drain fully until it cannot turn on and charged to 50% and it noticed it seem to last longer or just as good as NoDO. thinking that something is amiss or altered here, i then let it go to
1 % Then charged it back to 100%. U should notice that full charging will take longer than usual. Around 2 hours ++.
1) Fully drain the battery till the phone shuts off
2) Charge the battery to 50%
3) run down the battery to 1%
4) Fully charge it to 100%
5) repeat the procedures 3) and 4) a few times for the next few days whenever its possible and follow the same routine every time u charge
Here is a diagram explaining how i came to the conclusion. Report back if the battery life has improved for u
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My phone doesn't shut off when it's fully charged you may want to explain that one better
Sent from my arrive using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

kwajr said:
My phone doesn't shut off when it's fully charged you may want to explain that one better
Sent from my arrive using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does it need to shut off?

I also found that the battery seemed to drain pretty quick. But this sounds logical. I'll test you method and report back.

Some where r all over the place , its stated that many devices using lithium ion have battery indicator problems .
Maybe this s the problem.

What did you edit in your op
Magpir said:
Why does it need to shut off?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my arrive using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

anyone have improved battery life in this method??

I suggest to read this or this and this before you exercise this procedure. Here are the main points:
- A Li ion battery loses about 20% capacity per year if fully charged at typical average temps of 25C. It only loses 4% if charged to 50% (all of this highly temperature dependent).
- Li ion batteries have no memory effect (holding less charge)
- completely draining a Li ion battery is bad (if you let it sit in this state you may end up with a dead battery)
- shallow discharges are best (let the battery drain to 15-20%, then recharge)
in summary, the more you stress the battery by charging/discharging the sooner it will see its end of life. The best is to keep it at values of 50-60% charge. Of course this is not always practical (trips etc), just try not to always push it to 100% if possible.
if you think the OS/battery indicator interprets the battery level incorrectly, that is a whole different story of course and would be a major flaw (and could be manufacturer dependent). I did not see any difference between NoDo and Mango on mine.

My method is not deep discharging the battery. Its to calibrate the indicator as seems that the os is controlling the indicator

Also do note that one yr phone comes new, ita battery is charged to 40% only.

Basically there's a sensor in your phone that is used by your phone to tell how full/empty the battery is.
This sensor doesn't actually know how full your battery is, all it knows is how much power is coming from your battery at the time. The problem it has is that all batteries are slightly different, and their capacity goes down over time and usage (a three year old battery will not be able to hold as much charge as a brand new battery).
Your phone keeps a record of the maximum power it's ever had from the battery, as well as knowing the minimum power that it can safely work with before it has to turn itself off. It uses the difference between those two numbers, and the current power at any time to calculate how much percentage of your battery you have left at that time. So with a new battery, the phone might be telling you that the battery is fully charged because it's charged to the highest level the phone's ever seen, but if you leave it charging a bit longer then it might charge more, and then the phone can recalibrate itself and use this new value as the most it's ever seen.
You should only need to do this "over-charging" with a brand new phone/battery, after that the phone know the maximum values, and can more accurately tell you when it's full.

The correct way is to charge it from 1% always once its calibrated.

derausgewanderte said:
I suggest to read this or this and this before you exercise this procedure. Here are the main points:
- A Li ion battery loses about 20% capacity per year if fully charged at typical average temps of 25C. It only loses 4% if charged to 50% (all of this highly temperature dependent).
- Li ion batteries have no memory effect (holding less charge)
- completely draining a Li ion battery is bad (if you let it sit in this state you may end up with a dead battery)
- shallow discharges are best (let the battery drain to 15-20%, then recharge)
in summary, the more you stress the battery by charging/discharging the sooner it will see its end of life. The best is to keep it at values of 50-60% charge. Of course this is not always practical (trips etc), just try not to always push it to 100% if possible.
if you think the OS/battery indicator interprets the battery level incorrectly, that is a whole different story of course and would be a major flaw (and could be manufacturer dependent). I did not see any difference between NoDo and Mango on mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What this guy said. I haven't seen a big change in battery performance either, at least on really intensive tasks like web browsing (at least on my phone). Other than that it seems to discharge a lot slower. On the other hand, I'm wondering if all feedback I'm sending back to Microsoft is having some impact. Perhaps I'll turn those off to see how it performs.

ScottSUmmers said:
What this guy said. I haven't seen a big change in battery performance either, at least on really intensive tasks like web browsing (at least on my phone). Other than that it seems to discharge a lot slower. On the other hand, I'm wondering if all feedback I'm sending back to Microsoft is having some impact. Perhaps I'll turn those off to see how it performs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the battery performance is
dependent on the battery capacity.
Calibration helps to maximize the phone battery capacity without the indicator shutting it off prematurely.
imagine yr car has a petrol indicator which is wrong and it shuts off yr car because it thinks that the petrol is used up
but u still find that there is a good amount of petrol left but the car is not using them because of the indicator which shuts down the car prematurely

Magpir said:
the battery performance is
dependent on the battery capacity.
Calibration helps to maximize the phone battery capacity without the indicator shutting it off prematurely.
imagine yr car has a petrol indicator which is wrong and it shuts off yr car because it thinks that the petrol is used up
but u still find that there is a good amount of petrol left but the car is not using them because of the indicator which shuts down the car prematurely
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you assume the Mango OS interprets the battery circuit wrong (controller IC built into battery), then something is utterly wrong of course and needs to be addressed. I have not seen many people here having problems with battery life that would be alarming. This should also be manufacturer dependent as the battery status is first interpreted by the phone's hardware before it goes to the OS....
my two cents...

derausgewanderte said:
Again, if you assume the Mango OS interprets the battery circuit wrong (controller IC built into battery), then something is utterly wrong of course and needs to be addressed. I have not seen many people here having problems with battery life that would be alarming. This should also be manufacturer dependent as the battery status is first interpreted by the phone's hardware before it goes to the OS....
my two cents...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are in fact alarming battery problems in wp7 phones.
do a quick google.

Magpir said:
the battery performance is
dependent on the battery capacity.
Calibration helps to maximize the phone battery capacity without the indicator shutting it off prematurely.
imagine yr car has a petrol indicator which is wrong and it shuts off yr car because it thinks that the petrol is used up
but u still find that there is a good amount of petrol left but the car is not using them because of the indicator which shuts down the car prematurely
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I understand what you're saying, and I've done calibrations before. However, I was just quoting derausgewanderte as a warning that letting it discharge to 0% will decrease the life of your battery faster. If it's of no concern to you by all means.

Yes my method did not advocate draining to 0% multiple times. Only once as regular calibration routine

Magpir said:
Yes my method did not advocate draining to 0% muryople times. Only once as regular calibration routine
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1% - 0%: how would you be able to tell the difference if your argument is that the indicator reading is wrong?

derausgewanderte said:
1% - 0%: how would you be able to tell the difference if your argument is that the indicator reading is wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
scroll up and read my first post.

[Q] \\ Charging the first time

i just got the phone yesterday (att) i charged the first time in 4hours , is that okay cause people told me that i needed to charge in +8 hours ,and now do i have to use the phone to die completely and charge it again or just need to low battery ? sr for my bad English

kevintran.98 said:
i just got the phone yesterday (att) i charged the first time in 4hours , is that okay cause people told me that i needed to charge in +8 hours ,and now do i have to use the phone to die completely and charge it again or just need to low battery ? sr for my bad English
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here is the answer for your question:
Lithium-Ion - Li-ion batteries are the newer type of battery that are found it most newer cell phones (most definitely most, if not all, smartphones use Li-ion and many "dumbphones" use them too now). Li-ion can be thought of as "smarter" than NiCad batteries; Li-ion batteries don't suffer from the "memory effect" and thus don't need to be conditioned like NiCad batteries.
Rather, to condition a new Li-ion battery, fully charge it; it should be allowed to charge for 7-8 hours on the first, initial charge. In other words, when you get your new cell phone - and it has a Li-ion battery - allow it to charge for 7-8 hours even if the cell phone claims to be fully charged. (It is preferable to use outlet charger vs car charger or USB charging via computer because of the voltage difference.) After that, there is no reconditioning necessary for Li-ion batteries since they don't suffer from the "memory effect". However, be sure to avoid fully draining/discharging the Li-ion battery as much as possible; every time a Li-ion battery is fully discharged, it loses battery power and life. (That doesn't mean your battery will die if it is ever fully discharged; it means it is best to avoid fully discharging when possible.) Try to recharge Li-ion batteries when they are at 15-25%. Similarly, avoid heat as much as possible and when (if) storing Li-ion batteries, store them not at full charge.
Update: The only time you should ever intentionally fully discharge a Li-ion battery is if your phone is not properly reading the battery. In other words, if you go from 100% -> 90% in ten minutes but go from 90% -> 80% in one hour with the same amount of usage, that means your phone is not reading the battery output evenly. If this is the case, then fully discharging your battery once and then recharging it can fix the issue of your phone not reading the battery properly. Take note, however, this full discharge/recharge won't increase your battery life -- it will only ensure your phone reads the battery properly.
People often confuse Li-ion and NiCad batteries and try to condition Li-ion batteries by charging/discharging them 4-6 times. Trying to condition a Li-ion battery like it is a NiCad battery (i.e. charging/discharging the Li-ion battery 4-6 times) hurts the Li-ion battery more than helps it. So, be sure to condition your new cell phone's battery, but be sure to condition it properly. Otherwise, you may be doing more harm than good. If you are not sure what type of battery you have, read the labels on the battery - they will always say whether the battery is Lithium-ion or Nickel-cadmium. Good luck and may we all have long lasting batteries.
p.s. i got my one x yesterday too and is most beatiful phone in the world

Full Charge and Full Discharge Every time Recommended?

Question: Is recommended to fully charge and fully discharge a battery every time? Doe it improve or decrease body life?

Innis said:
Question: Is recommended to fully charge and fully discharge a battery every time? Doe it improve or decrease body life?
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Is it recomended to not post this thred in the accesoires section but in the Q&A sections. Also it recomended to search before you ask.
There are several threads, if not hundreds about preserving and maintaining your battery life. Whole guides and tricks just for you to find with the search button.
To awnser your question.
No, depleting your whole battery is not good for its life, also spending nights and hours on the charger wil do no good.
Search and it will be all you can eat.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium

htcsnap93 said:
Is it recomended to not post this thred in the accesoires section but in the Q&A sections. Also it recomended to search before you ask.
There are several threads, if not hundreds about preserving and maintaining your battery life. Whole guides and tricks just for you to find with the search button.
To awnser your question.
No, depleting your whole battery is not good for its life, also spending nights and hours on the charger wil do no good.
Search and it will be all you can eat.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
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What happened to being a friendly community....
Yes, he could have searched it first, but no reason to be an ass.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Correction, he SHOULD have searched first.

metalfan78 said:
Correction, he SHOULD have searched first.
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Thanks, that's what I meant to say.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

htcsnap93 said:
Is it recomended to not post this thred in the accesoires section but in the Q&A sections. Also it recomended to search before you ask.
There are several threads, if not hundreds about preserving and maintaining your battery life. Whole guides and tricks just for you to find with the search button.
To awnser your question.
No, depleting your whole battery is not good for its life, also spending nights and hours on the charger wil do no good.
Search and it will be all you can eat.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is completely false. Full cycling doesn't hurt or improve battery life, lithium batteries are very different from the old nickel based batteries.
Also you can leave this on the charger 24/7, 365 days and nothing will happen. All current batteries and chargers made have over charge protection.
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Speedin07si said:
This is completely false. Full cycling doesn't hurt or improve battery life, lithium batteries are very different from the old nickel based batteries.
Also you can leave this on the charger 24/7, 365 days and nothing will happen. All current batteries and chargers made have over charge protection.
Sent from Pluto.
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actually, you're wrong.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Over-discharging Lithium-ion
Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow. If the discharge continues to about 2.70V/cell or lower, the battery’s protection circuit puts the battery into a sleep mode. This renders the pack unserviceable and a recharge with most chargers is not possible. To prevent a battery from falling asleep, apply a partial charge before a long storage period.
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http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Let’s look at real-life situations and examine what stresses lithium-ion batteries encounter. Most packs last three to five years. Environmental conditions, and not cycling alone, are a key ingredient to longevity, and the worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. This is the case when running a laptop off the power grid. Under these conditions, a battery will typically last for about two years, whether cycled or not. The pack does not die suddenly but will give lower runtimes with aging.
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dspcap said:
What happened to being a friendly community....
Yes, he could have searched it first, but no reason to be an ass.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Im not being an ass. I explained what he should have done and gave him his awnser. Isnt that actually the thing the community expects from us ? I think you didnt read my reply very well and i hope you apologize. Because i didnt try to be an ass at all.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium

LO
mputtr said:
actually, you're wrong.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
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Click to collapse
From the same article
Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, so also does the depth of discharge (DoD) determine the cycle count. The shorter the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life, other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery once in a while.
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so you may be somewhat right on this one, but further reading this article my understanding is : fully discharging is to the point it won't turn on when plugged in.
These batteries should have a safety built in so you won't get to that point without trying. My old Palm pre got to this level if I tried turning it on multiple times after the phone shut itself off.
Although a properly functioning Li-ion charger will terminate charge when the battery is full, some chargers apply a topping charge if the battery terminal voltage drops to a given level. Read more about Charging Lithium-ion.
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Like I said modern chargers will not let you over charge, unless the charger isn't working properly.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Sent from Pluto.

which is the point of the OP's question. He's asking if fully discharging the battery then charging it back up to 100% will help make the battery last longer.
The answer is no. it tends to damage the battery.
If you fully discharge the battery, you leave no power for the circuit to do its work and you can potentially kill it completely instead.
there is also another point of leaving it charged all the time. It's actually not good for the battery (since the charge is not moved, it becomes stagnant [not sure if it's the best term but close enough] and reduces the battery life).
So in regards to the OP's question, the answer is fully discharging then fully charging it will damage the battery. as that article also states, it's better to have it in the midrange rather than at either end.
EDIT: also, the part that you quoted is in reference to how much is discharged in that "cycle" that you're using it. the practice of completely discharging and full charging it is something that is required for older battery tech that requires a "memory effect" to condition the battery to know what is considered empty and what is considered full. When you say full discharging and keeping it always charged does not affect that battery at all, that is wrong. it reduces the life of the battery and in the case of discharging, it can even damage the battery.

Innis said:
Question: Is recommended to fully charge and fully discharge a battery every time? Doe it improve or decrease body life?
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Click to collapse
Use maximum of charge cycles... i mean 100 to 10% in 1 go and then put on and charge back to 100% ... trick is never make it empty... a battery performs normal for a certain number of charge cycles... so make most of it. charging half cycles or chargin 20-30% and then using is just wasting battery life.
i am using my tab from last 1 n half years and it is working really good.. 3000 mah battery is delivering as it should... hope same will happen with my phone.
Hope this helps

nikhiltanwar said:
Use maximum of charge cycles... i mean 100 to 10% in 1 go and then put on and charge back to 100% ... trick is never make it empty... a battery performs normal for a certain number of charge cycles... so make most of it. charging half cycles or chargin 20-30% and then using is just wasting battery life.
i am using my tab from last 1 n half years and it is working really good.. 3000 mah battery is delivering as it should... hope same will happen with my phone.
Hope this helps
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actually, it's the opposite. with lithium ions, you're better off charging more often and keeping it in the midrange rather than what you suggested. the battery doesn't count a charge cycle every time you plug it in. check the links i posted earlier for the correct info.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

The battery will lose capacity over time, no matter what you do with it.
Lets say the battery has about 2100mA when it's new. It'll only have about 2000mA after a couple of months.
Your Phone still thinks it is working with a 2100mA battery because it can't directly measure how much charge a battery holds. It can only measure how much is used at any given moment (or put in while charging) and it can measure the voltage of the battery. When the battery is at 4.2V it is fully charged. That's when the charging circuit shuts off. At 3V it will turn the phone off.
So how does your phone calculate the remaining capacity it shows you in the status bar?
Well it starts counting down from the moment you take your phone of the charger. It expects the 2100mA but ultimately it will shut itself off when the battery comes down to 3V, which it will do sooner when your battery no longer has the expected 2100mA capacity.
So even though it still shows a couple percent of remaining charge it will suddenly shut off.
To prevent that from happening unexpectedly you can let your phone run down to that shut off point at 3V on purpose. It's not good for your battery so don't do it often. Once every two months maybe. Why? Because your phone doesn't only measure how much current you use up but also how much you put in. With a defined start and stop (3V and 4.2V) it can measure how much charge your battery actually can hold. It can't do that with partial charges.
Aside from that. I concur with those that cited battery university. If possible stay between 80%-30%. 80% is kind of hard to do and leaves you with 20% less charge. 100% as long as you don't let it stay on the charger for days on end will be OK. Just don't do full cycles all the time. Do partial charges anytime it won't hurt your battery
And remember, batteries are expendable goods and with the S3 you can put in a new one easily should the old one die. It's inexpensive and not worth losing sleep over.

I don't know about all the technical aspects, but I have put my S3 on the charger every night, and disconnected it when I got up in the morning. I also put it on the charger through out the day if needed. I haven't seen any noticeable difference in the battery since I bought the phone last June. A replacement battery can be had for about $10-15, so even if you had to buy one a year, I wouldn't spend more than about 3 minutes worrying about it...

Thank you all for your responses. I did not mean to.cause problems. I only asked my question because I bought the Hyperion extended battery and the included paper says to fully charge and.fully discharge for the first 4-5 charges to get best battery life. I am in the possess of fully discharging my 3 time...but i am.fully discharging to the point the phone shuts off...but all ive read on lithum ion batteries suggests i should not do this?
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check the battery university link for more info but essentially the full charge discharge thing is old calibration method for a different battery tech that requires that method to create a memory effect. li-ion has an active circuit that handles that for you already.
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Does no one own a laptop? Same battery concept people. Laptop batteries are also l-ion and I know for a fact leaving them plugged in all the time kills the batteries and there life is based off charge cycles.
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