Develop Bugs

Is TP2 battery life affected by partial charge-discharge cycles

Hi All,
When cellphones first came out, it was recommended to use the battery till it was almost empty and then charge it fully. This would maintain the batterys charge carrying capacity.
I wanted to ask if this still holds true with the TP2 and the new Li-Ion batteries?
Specifically, if you keep charging the TP2 every night (lets say when it is at always at 60% capacity and charge it to 100% by morning), will it substantially decrease battery life?
Thoughts would be welcome!

There are a few schools of thought on that one, and to be sure, since you have opened the can, all the worms are now about your feet
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Have fun putting them back in the tin again
Seriously, now...
Li-ion batteries do not suffer from the old Ni-Cad "memory effect". They suffer a loss of capacity and charge efficiency instead.
There's a rather good article on this over on wikipedia (link), but the long and the short of it is that for every charge, whether partial or full, the battery's ability to retain a full charge for a long period of time is lessened.
Thus, the longer you have the Li-Ion battery, and the more you recharge it, the more pronounced the effect, to the point where a couple of years down the line, the battery will take a full charge alright, but it might only hold that charge for a couple of hours at best.
The next stage in mobile device power cells will be Lithium Polymer (link), but that's new (relatively) tech, and there are a few problems in charging them - they require very specific charging handling to be safe/efficient.
Hope the above helps

Apologies
Apologies, but a detailed answer to this has already been posted in the Wiki. I should have read that first.
In a nutshell though it seems like this problem is not there anymore. Infact it is recommended to charge from a partially charged state as compared to a fully discharge state. Please read teh Wiki for more information

Thanks!
Roger Stenning: Thanks!
Also, people may want to take a look at the forums Wiki (not Wikipedia) to get more views
Over and out

Simple. LiIon batteries like being charged early and often. Don't deep discharge them unnecessarily. However, it is not necessary to plug them into the wall every time you get off the phone. My typical charge cycle is overnight and in the afternoon at work I'll charge the phone, that has always gotten me through the whole day on my last 3-4 different phones.

I always end up charging my phone up often, mainly because I use it as my mp3 player, so don't want to run out of charge whilst walking. With replacement batteries at £20 off quid I don't see it as too much as a problem.

Oh yeah, almost forgot - if you don't want to charge the phone while you're synching with your PC, go to settings -> all settings -> power and check the box "When device is turned on, do not charge the battery when connected to the PC."

Dear all,
There's a really useful guide to maintaining laptop and phone batteries from Battery University, cut into a short overview at http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/05/07/beginners_battery_maintenance/
Definately worth a read and busts a lot of the myths out there.
Adam.

Everyone seems to agree that keeping a battery charged is the best way to go.
Yet common sense tells me that since the optimum storage charge is 50%, then the battery might last the longest if it's operated around that level.
In other words, if your battery is around 60-70% and you can afford that, don't charge it until it drops to maybe 30-40%, then charge it back to 70%.
Does that make any sense?

not realy, I'm afraid. Read the wiki I linked to - you'll see that when a Lithium-Ion battery is charged, resistive deposits collect inside the electrolyte, causing the battery to be able to maintain a full charge for less time after each successive charging cycle. It's therefore best to charge the battery to its' fullest capacity each time, and allow it to drop to (my personal preference for Li-Io kit) no lower then 20% or so, so as to maximise the usable life of the battery. I can show you an Li_Io battery from my last pda/phone, an HP iPAQ hw6915, where the battery is so knackered that it'll only hold a charge for an hour - at best. That, after two years of partial charges due to repeated resyncs and concequential recharging in the interface cradle.
Hope the above helps you with a reasonably informed decision

RogerStenning said:
not realy, I'm afraid. Read the wiki I linked to - you'll see that when a Lithium-Ion battery is charged, resistive deposits collect inside the electrolyte, causing the battery to be able to maintain a full charge for less time after each successive charging cycle. It's therefore best to charge the battery to its' fullest capacity each time, and allow it to drop to (my personal preference for Li-Io kit) no lower then 20% or so, so as to maximise the usable life of the battery. I can show you an Li_Io battery from my last pda/phone, an HP iPAQ hw6915, where the battery is so knackered that it'll only hold a charge for an hour - at best. That, after two years of partial charges due to repeated resyncs and concequential recharging in the interface cradle.
Hope the above helps you with a reasonably informed decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're reading it wrong.. A charge cycle does not mean you plugged in the charger, it means it's a full cycle. Not necessarily from 0, but charging it 2-3% while your syncing would not be considered a "charge cycle".

khaytsus said:
I think you're reading it wrong.. A charge cycle does not mean you plugged in the charger, it means it's a full cycle. Not necessarily from 0, but charging it 2-3% while your syncing would not be considered a "charge cycle".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whenever current goes in, that's "charging". The more you do it, the less the battery holds. Period. It doesn't matter if you didn't get it all the way "full" or not, it matters if you plugged it in. Basically, using a rechargeable battery wears it out. I know, it's hard to believe. Discharging a cell completely wears it out extra fast. Don't do that.
FYI, the Prius never tries to never discharge it's (NiMH) battery below 40%, nor charge it over 60%. It does this to maximize the life span of the cells, but of course, it means your battery has a whole lot less usable capacity. It's a trade-off.
"Memory effect" basically doesn't exist, not in any circumstances you've ever encountered. I recommend reading this:
Dan's Quick Guide to Memory Effect, You Idiots

godefroi said:
FYI, the Prius never tries to never discharge it's (NiMH) battery below 40%, nor charge it over 60%. It does this to maximize the life span of the cells, but of course, it means your battery has a whole lot less usable capacity. It's a trade-off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If that's true, then it's basically what I said, except not in such an extreme. And the other guy said "oh no, not really".

acrh2 said:
If that's true, then it's basically what I said, except not in such an extreme. And the other guy said "oh no, not really".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, I'm reinforcing what you said.

QUESTION! battery discharge
godefroi said:
Right, I'm reinforcing what you said.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found this old thread! Had a question. I have had the TP2 since it came out, I used to only have to charge it every other day or every 3 days. Now it is loosing charge quickly. Half a day at best. A day max with medium use, when medium use for 2 1/2 days killed the battery.
What is going on? Have Nue installed, seems that the voltage discharging is normal. But it seems to also drop from 10-0 REALLY quickly too. For instance, last two recharges have gone from 10 percent to 8 to 6 to 1% (nue showed it as 2 for about 30 seconds then it too showed at 1%.
What is going on with my battery?

DoD: Depth of Discharge for li-Ion batteries

I was browsing the web in search for an answer for a simple question:
"How to properly charge your li-ion battery and increase battery life?"
This is what I got so far.
1. Battery life cycle: Any Li-Ion battery life is measured based on how many times can you discharge it from 100% to 0%. Normally the figure is 300-500 times and it depends on a factor called DoD (Depth of Discharge).
2. Depth of Discharge (DoD): Quite self-explanatory thing. If you have 20% charge left, it means that DoD=80%. The higher is the DoD the lower is your battery life cycle.
Comparison table is here:
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So, here's the answer to the painful question "Why should not I discharge my li-ion to 0%?" The answer is - your battery will die faster. I'm trying to get used to put both my OEM and Mugen Power batteries to charge right after my Nexus informs about 15% charge left.
3. Deep discharge: Not allowed for li-ion batteries. This is pretty interesting: Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow. If the discharge continues to about 2.70V/cell or lower, the battery’s protection circuit puts the battery into a sleep mode. This renders the pack unserviceable and a recharge with most chargers is not possible. To prevent a battery from falling asleep, apply a partial charge before a long storage period.
Also: Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week.
So, what I got from this section is - when I get to 0%, I will not try to switch on my phone again because that can damage my battery.
4. Don't charge in small portions: This is important in a long term for higher capacity batteries. If you use an extended 3000+mah battery it's important to use the whole capacity of the battery to avoid aging of cells that are not used. It's recommended to charge your extended battery to 100% from time to time.
5. Recycle your batteries
I think this article here could be updated a little with these.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=518861
Sources:
http://mugen.tv/?p=690
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

Most smartphone maintain a charging current even after the 100% charge level is reached. I think that this should also have an effect on battery life....
What is your opinion ?

7_michel said:
Most smartphone maintain a charging current even after the 100% charge level is reached. I think that this should also have an effect on battery life....
What is your opinion ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that in this case battery is protected with the battery's controller that only opens the current when the discharge level is below a certain point. That is why it's safe to keep your phone on charge overnight.

This part is wrong
. Don't charge in small portions: This is important in a long term for higher capacity batteries. If you use an extended 3000+mah battery it's important to use the whole capacity of the battery to avoid aging of cells that are not used. It's recommended to charge your extended battery to 100% from time to time.
if you notice if you always discharge to 50% you will get 1500 discharge cycles, that's not 1500 discharges to 50%, but 1500 full charge cycles, which would be recharging it to 100% twice from 50%, so by going from 100% and always recharging at 50% you get 50% more life out of your battery. Li-ion batteries last longer when not full discharged regularly, sadly usage of a smartphone is not very well suited for keeping it at a high charge as most users, even me, don't charge multiple times a day but try to optimize their phone so they only have to recharge once a day at night, which is the reason I like removable and replaceable android phone batteries
Li-ion batteries also are smart in that they intelligently charge and discharge cells so that certain cells won't age more than others, so you don't have to worry about that.
Also this is for another poster, the batteries have protection circuits to ensure that you don't overcharge your phone, so leaving it on the chargers after 100% I charge my phone each night to 100% and it doesn't do any damage to the battery.

movielover76 said:
This part is wrong
. Don't charge in small portions: This is important in a long term for higher capacity batteries. If you use an extended 3000+mah battery it's important to use the whole capacity of the battery to avoid aging of cells that are not used. It's recommended to charge your extended battery to 100% from time to time.
if you notice if you always discharge to 50% you will get 1500 discharge cycles, that's not 1500 discharges to 50%, but 1500 full charge cycles, which would be recharging it to 100% twice from 50%, so by going from 100% and always recharging at 50% you get 50% more life out of your battery. Li-ion batteries last longer when not full discharged regularly, sadly usage of a smartphone is not very well suited for keeping it at a high charge as most users, even me, don't charge multiple times a day but try to optimize their phone so they only have to recharge once a day at night, which is the reason I like removable and replaceable android phone batteries
Li-ion batteries also are smart in that they intelligently charge and discharge cells so that certain cells won't age more than others, so you don't have to worry about that.
Also this is for another poster, the batteries have protection circuits to ensure that you don't overcharge your phone, so leaving it on the chargers after 100% I charge my phone each night to 100% and it doesn't do any damage to the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The "charge in small portions" is correct. What I meant is this if your battery is charged up to 50% and you keep charging it to 75% and never up to 100%, that is not good practice. Experience with new li-ion batteries shows that once or twice in a week it's important to charge it up to 100%.
Regarding the protection in the batteries - it works against overcharging, but sadly, not against overdischarging. Your phone will allow you to switch it on one or two times after the indicator shows the zero level. It's important NOT to do that because that damages chemistry in any type of batteries including li-ion.

okishead said:
The "charge in small portions" is correct. What I meant is this if your battery is charged up to 50% and you keep charging it to 75% and never up to 100%, that is not good practice. Experience with new li-ion batteries shows that once or twice in a week it's important to charge it up to 100%.
Regarding the protection in the batteries - it works against overcharging, but sadly, not against overdischarging. Your phone will allow you to switch it on one or two times after the indicator shows the zero level. It's important NOT to do that because that damages chemistry in any type of batteries including li-ion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Read this: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
"Li-ion does not need to be fully charged, as is the case with lead acid, nor is it desirable to do so. In fact, it is better not to fully charge, because high voltages stresses the battery."
2. This: http://www.centralhobbies.com/instructional/lithium.html
1. Charge often. Don't try to fully discharge the battery packs frequently. This only adds strain. Several partial discharges (regular use) with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one total discharge.
Confusing, yes, sure is.
Basically, for Li-Ion battery.
1. NEVER allow deep discharge (to 0%). Once in a while, I still get an article on web suggesting let the battery completely discharged. Hmmm.
2. Fully charge (to 100%) is not good either, partially charge is better. Confuse enough?

Yes confusing!!!
Sent from my LG-P999 using xda premium

Newer charging li-ion battery over 90% will double it's lifetime. This is mentioned also in battery university page. Some laptops also include battery care function which limits full charge to 80%. This is good evidence that this is the way to prolong battery lifetime.

At first , i was agree with almost all of the article on the Internet about li ion battery.
But, after reading one comment from batteryuniversity article, this guys comment is refusing the article opinion that li ion do not have memory effects.
After doing some searching , wow , its true that li ion DO HAVE MEMORY EFFECTS like nicd do.
So what i do is always completely fully discharged my battery before charging it again. Actually, its almost impossible for smartphones battery to fully discharged while being using till the screen goes off by itself. Im using note 3 which has removable battery.
And yes. I dont have any problem with fully discharged my li ion battery. Battery still as good as new although being fully discharged for many2 times. Hard to believe? Try it and u will agree with me.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app

dojodo said:
At first , i was agree with almost all of the article on the Internet about li ion battery.
But, after reading one comment from batteryuniversity article, this guys comment is refusing the article opinion that li ion do not have memory effects.
After doing some searching , wow , its true that li ion DO HAVE MEMORY EFFECTS like nicd do.
So what i do is always completely fully discharged my battery before charging it again. Actually, its almost impossible for smartphones battery to fully discharged while being using till the screen goes off by itself. Im using note 3 which has removable battery.
And yes. I dont have any problem with fully discharged my li ion battery. Battery still as good as new although being fully discharged for many2 times. Hard to believe? Try it and u will agree with me.
Sent from my SM-N900 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have always gone by the recharge before it gets low rule, and told my friend the same with his HTC desire. His went over 3 years before original battery got tired. I haven't had any battery issues yet on phones I had new.
My ex thought it was best to discharge all the way and she had a laptop, an iPod and an iPhone all with basically ruined batteries. So I don't agree with you. I agree with the majority of the articles I've read like the battery university one.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using XDA Free mobile app

[DIY Guide to FIX] Battery Heat/Life on stock unrooted HOX's

Hello,
Last month I had 10 HOX's, some of them faulty because the store I changed equipment that had been discarded (dead pixels, screen problems, cosmetic defects, etc.) ...
In almost all cases the first battery charge was +8 hours, and I was quite surprised with the results, the HOX could handle a whole night standby(7 hours or more) with sync, wifi on, bluetooth, etc ... discharging only 1% to 2%.
But other HOX's, were different ... came to go 100% to 95% in just 5 minutes of use or drop 10% in one minute, or stuck in same % from one hour, and could not do better than 82% in the test battery from HTC, even after several cycles of battery.
The same was happening with this HOX! so I decided to risk it, and how I will not root for now (because of all the problems I had), yesterday charge the HOX up to 100%, and installed the RUU indicated, and let it charge for +4 hours ... I ran the battery test the HTC, and 82% are now 90% ...
Want to try?
Try and give feedback ... I now believe that the battery is actually calibrated, and can finally enjoy the potential of this gorgeous smartphone!
The problems associated with the battery temperature also appear to have vanished
now I have instead in standby
Tips & Instructions:
Choose RUU indicated here (Thanks to Football),
Make a backup of everything, the RUU will erase everything on your HOX,
Before running the RUU charge the HOX up to 100%
Enter the Fastboot mode (Power + Volume Down)
After installing the RUU leaves the HOX charge +4 hours at least
Screenshots:
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Just a quick question about this.
What temperatures do you get after browsing the internet for an hour? I get 45C+
What temps do you get after playing a tegra game (riptide gp) for 30 mins? I get 48C+ sometimes 51C+
Just wanted to know whether the temperatures I am getting are normal or if I should use your method.

Rahulg247 said:
Just a quick question about this.
What temperatures do you get after browsing the internet for an hour? I get 45C+
What temps do you get after playing a tegra game (riptide gp) for 30 mins? I get 48C+ sometimes 51C+
Just wanted to know whether the temperatures I am getting are normal or if I should use your method.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Before this I get 33/35 in standby, 38/39 only screen on, 48º playing glowball, as you can see now 33º in screen on
I risk to say: sometimes my device was hot with 38º battery temp and more cold with 45º, i'm testing... until now is working better... lets see if i'm wrong or not

caedanne said:
Hello,
Last month I had 10 HOX's, some of them faulty because the store I changed equipment that had been discarded (dead pixels, screen problems, cosmetic defects, etc.) ...
In almost all cases the first battery charge was +8 hours, and I was quite surprised with the results, the HOX could handle a whole night standby(7 hours or more) with sync, wifi on, bluetooth, etc ... discharging only 1% to 2%.
But other HOX's, were different ... came to go 100% to 95% in just 5 minutes of use or drop 10% in one minute, or stuck in same % from one hour, and could not do better than 82% in the test battery from HTC, even after several cycles of battery.
The same was happening with this HOX! so I decided to risk it, and how I will not root for now (because of all the problems I had), yesterday charge the HOX up to 100%, and installed the RUU indicated, and let it charge for +4 hours ... I ran the battery test the HTC, and 82% are now 90% ...
Want to try?
Try and give feedback ... I now believe that the battery is actually calibrated, and can finally enjoy the potential of this gorgeous smartphone!
The problems associated with the battery temperature also appear to have vanished
now I have instead in standby
Tips & Instructions:
Choose RUU indicated here (Thanks to Football),
Make a backup of everything, the RUU will erase everything on your HOX,
Before running the RUU charge the HOX up to 100%
Enter the Fastboot mode (Power + Volume Down)
After installing the RUU leaves the HOX charge +4 hours at least
Screenshots:
View attachment 1112614
View attachment 1112615
View attachment 1112616
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which software-version do you have?
In the 1.29.401.11 update there was a battery calibration included ...

What's the secret? Flashing the RUU or charge it after flashing?

theliquid said:
Which software-version do you have?
In the 1.29.401.11 update there was a battery calibration included ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1.29.401.11

MickyMax said:
What's the secret? Flashing the RUU or charge it after flashing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think its flash Ruu with 100% and then let charge until reachs something like 4190mV,
I'd pay some attention on every battery charge cycle I had before, so when phone reachs 80% is allready at full mV capacity, the correct thing should be at 90%,
So thats I believe causes battery drop for some people!

theliquid said:
Which software-version do you have?
In the 1.29.401.11 update there was a battery calibration included ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The basis for battery calibration is let reach 100% (real 100%) or else full mV capacity and delete battery_stats.bin, so if you update OTA with 35% you can lose some battery life, or the system will need more time to adjust that.
1800mah battery = 100% = +-4200mV
If your battery jumps from 80% (or less) to 100% in charge quickly then you must calibrate battery.
If your battery jumps from 90% to 100% in charge quickly then you must have a good battery calibration.
Correct me if I'm wrong

Hello i noticed that the charge graph was not right.
See the image i've done in attached files.
The blue graph is the good one. Everybody should have this kind of charge graph.
Something straight at start and slowly going to 100% at the end ...
The red one is the "bad calibrated graph" and the one i got in my HOX ...
You can see at the end that the charge go fast from 85% to 100%.
This is not a normal behaviour of a Li-Ion battery ( The blue is the good one ).
The charger analyse that the battery is fully charged but the percentage is wrong ( 85% )
and the software just "ends" the graph going directly to 100% and generates this strange charge graph.
And this software issue also explain why some persons have an increase of battery percentage
just after they changed ROM. The battery goes from the red one to something more like the blue one
and so a superior value of charge % is displayed but the battery is still in the same state.
PS : I used Battery Monitor Widget to see the charge, but uninstalled it so i've done a graph in Excel .

Where open the battery test application like in third screenshot please?
Edit : Just found : Go to Phone. Dial in *#*#3424#*#*

MickyMax said:
Where open the battery test application like in third screenshot please?
Edit : Just found : Go to Phone. Dial in *#*#3424#*#*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*#*#3424#*#*

DanRZ said:
Hello i noticed that the charge graph was not right.
See the image i've done in attached files.
The blue graph is the good one. Everybody should have this kind of charge graph.
Something straight at start and slowly going to 100% at the end ...
The red one is the "bad calibrated graph" and the one i got in my HOX ...
You can see at the end that the charge go fast from 85% to 100%.
This is not a normal behaviour of a Li-Ion battery ( The blue is the good one ).
The charger analyse that the battery is fully charged but the percentage is wrong ( 85% )
and the software just "ends" the graph going directly to 100% and generates this strange charge graph.
And this software issue also explain why some persons have an increase of battery percentage
just after they changed ROM. The battery goes from the red one to something more like the blue one
and so a superior value of charge % is displayed but the battery is still in the same state.
PS : I used Battery Monitor Widget to see the charge, but uninstalled it so i've done a graph in Excel .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U are right, but 90% or 95% to 100% is most usual to happen and its nearly perfect

I thought this thread was a bit daft... But thinking about it, there is definitely calibration issues. It seems to reach peak charge at around 90, the the first ten percent drop in discharge is just a loss of surface charge. Which may mean 0 %is actually 10%..
So possibly real battery stats are kept in the bootloader partition or something. Although, someone could test if just a data wipe would have the same effect. Same charge procedure just wipe data instead of flashing a whole ruu.
Scrub all that, the reason it jumped is most likely because you were using the phone for something, when the charge amps get below 80ma, it automatically flags as charged.. and jumps to a hundred. That's why you should charge with the phone off. One reason anyway...of many.

backfromthestorm said:
I thought this thread was a bit daft... But thinking about it, there is definitely calibration issues. It seems to reach peak charge at around 90, the the first ten percent drop in discharge is just a loss of surface charge. Which may mean 0 %is actually 10%..
So possibly real battery stats are kept in the bootloader partition or something. Although, someone could test if just a data wipe would have the same effect. Same charge procedure just wipe data instead of flashing a whole ruu.
Scrub all that, the reason it jumped is most likely because you were using the phone for something, when the charge amps get below 80ma, it automatically flags as charged.. and jumps to a hundred. That's why you should charge with the phone off. One reason anyway...of many.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
data wipe doesn't change partition, only wipe /data, Ruu will format all and flash again, so I think if we flash, and make a proper charge after that we will get a new battery life.

I am pretty sure that you just discharge the battery to the point where it doesn't allow booting to hboot and then doing a full charge.

I just got 73% after the HTC battery test in my 2-week old HOX (very very sad pass...). Should I assume I have a faulty battery, or is your fix worth a try?
Thanks!

mberasategi said:
I just got 73% after the HTC battery test in my 2-week old HOX (very very sad pass...). Should I assume I have a faulty battery, or is your fix worth a try?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing to loose, try it, and feedback after please.
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA Premium HD app

Done, it's now charging for those 4h after flashing the RUU. One question though, I guess it's wise not to restore everything at once (apps, settings etc. from a MyBackup Pro file, for example), before checking whether battery life is any better...?

You say it will delete everything, do you mean that even the SD card will be formated?

Fille84 said:
You say it will delete everything, do you mean that even the SD card will be formated?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think so. I flashed yesterday and all my pictures were not deleted.

Full Charge and Full Discharge Every time Recommended?

Question: Is recommended to fully charge and fully discharge a battery every time? Doe it improve or decrease body life?

Innis said:
Question: Is recommended to fully charge and fully discharge a battery every time? Doe it improve or decrease body life?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it recomended to not post this thred in the accesoires section but in the Q&A sections. Also it recomended to search before you ask.
There are several threads, if not hundreds about preserving and maintaining your battery life. Whole guides and tricks just for you to find with the search button.
To awnser your question.
No, depleting your whole battery is not good for its life, also spending nights and hours on the charger wil do no good.
Search and it will be all you can eat.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium

htcsnap93 said:
Is it recomended to not post this thred in the accesoires section but in the Q&A sections. Also it recomended to search before you ask.
There are several threads, if not hundreds about preserving and maintaining your battery life. Whole guides and tricks just for you to find with the search button.
To awnser your question.
No, depleting your whole battery is not good for its life, also spending nights and hours on the charger wil do no good.
Search and it will be all you can eat.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
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What happened to being a friendly community....
Yes, he could have searched it first, but no reason to be an ass.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Correction, he SHOULD have searched first.

metalfan78 said:
Correction, he SHOULD have searched first.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, that's what I meant to say.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

htcsnap93 said:
Is it recomended to not post this thred in the accesoires section but in the Q&A sections. Also it recomended to search before you ask.
There are several threads, if not hundreds about preserving and maintaining your battery life. Whole guides and tricks just for you to find with the search button.
To awnser your question.
No, depleting your whole battery is not good for its life, also spending nights and hours on the charger wil do no good.
Search and it will be all you can eat.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is completely false. Full cycling doesn't hurt or improve battery life, lithium batteries are very different from the old nickel based batteries.
Also you can leave this on the charger 24/7, 365 days and nothing will happen. All current batteries and chargers made have over charge protection.
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Speedin07si said:
This is completely false. Full cycling doesn't hurt or improve battery life, lithium batteries are very different from the old nickel based batteries.
Also you can leave this on the charger 24/7, 365 days and nothing will happen. All current batteries and chargers made have over charge protection.
Sent from Pluto.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually, you're wrong.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
Over-discharging Lithium-ion
Li-ion should never be discharged too low, and there are several safeguards to prevent this from happening. The equipment cuts off when the battery discharges to about 3.0V/cell, stopping the current flow. If the discharge continues to about 2.70V/cell or lower, the battery’s protection circuit puts the battery into a sleep mode. This renders the pack unserviceable and a recharge with most chargers is not possible. To prevent a battery from falling asleep, apply a partial charge before a long storage period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Let’s look at real-life situations and examine what stresses lithium-ion batteries encounter. Most packs last three to five years. Environmental conditions, and not cycling alone, are a key ingredient to longevity, and the worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. This is the case when running a laptop off the power grid. Under these conditions, a battery will typically last for about two years, whether cycled or not. The pack does not die suddenly but will give lower runtimes with aging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

dspcap said:
What happened to being a friendly community....
Yes, he could have searched it first, but no reason to be an ass.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Im not being an ass. I explained what he should have done and gave him his awnser. Isnt that actually the thing the community expects from us ? I think you didnt read my reply very well and i hope you apologize. Because i didnt try to be an ass at all.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium

LO
mputtr said:
actually, you're wrong.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From the same article
Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, so also does the depth of discharge (DoD) determine the cycle count. The shorter the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine; there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life, other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery once in a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you may be somewhat right on this one, but further reading this article my understanding is : fully discharging is to the point it won't turn on when plugged in.
These batteries should have a safety built in so you won't get to that point without trying. My old Palm pre got to this level if I tried turning it on multiple times after the phone shut itself off.
Although a properly functioning Li-ion charger will terminate charge when the battery is full, some chargers apply a topping charge if the battery terminal voltage drops to a given level. Read more about Charging Lithium-ion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said modern chargers will not let you over charge, unless the charger isn't working properly.
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Sent from Pluto.

which is the point of the OP's question. He's asking if fully discharging the battery then charging it back up to 100% will help make the battery last longer.
The answer is no. it tends to damage the battery.
If you fully discharge the battery, you leave no power for the circuit to do its work and you can potentially kill it completely instead.
there is also another point of leaving it charged all the time. It's actually not good for the battery (since the charge is not moved, it becomes stagnant [not sure if it's the best term but close enough] and reduces the battery life).
So in regards to the OP's question, the answer is fully discharging then fully charging it will damage the battery. as that article also states, it's better to have it in the midrange rather than at either end.
EDIT: also, the part that you quoted is in reference to how much is discharged in that "cycle" that you're using it. the practice of completely discharging and full charging it is something that is required for older battery tech that requires a "memory effect" to condition the battery to know what is considered empty and what is considered full. When you say full discharging and keeping it always charged does not affect that battery at all, that is wrong. it reduces the life of the battery and in the case of discharging, it can even damage the battery.

Innis said:
Question: Is recommended to fully charge and fully discharge a battery every time? Doe it improve or decrease body life?
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Click to collapse
Use maximum of charge cycles... i mean 100 to 10% in 1 go and then put on and charge back to 100% ... trick is never make it empty... a battery performs normal for a certain number of charge cycles... so make most of it. charging half cycles or chargin 20-30% and then using is just wasting battery life.
i am using my tab from last 1 n half years and it is working really good.. 3000 mah battery is delivering as it should... hope same will happen with my phone.
Hope this helps

nikhiltanwar said:
Use maximum of charge cycles... i mean 100 to 10% in 1 go and then put on and charge back to 100% ... trick is never make it empty... a battery performs normal for a certain number of charge cycles... so make most of it. charging half cycles or chargin 20-30% and then using is just wasting battery life.
i am using my tab from last 1 n half years and it is working really good.. 3000 mah battery is delivering as it should... hope same will happen with my phone.
Hope this helps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually, it's the opposite. with lithium ions, you're better off charging more often and keeping it in the midrange rather than what you suggested. the battery doesn't count a charge cycle every time you plug it in. check the links i posted earlier for the correct info.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

The battery will lose capacity over time, no matter what you do with it.
Lets say the battery has about 2100mA when it's new. It'll only have about 2000mA after a couple of months.
Your Phone still thinks it is working with a 2100mA battery because it can't directly measure how much charge a battery holds. It can only measure how much is used at any given moment (or put in while charging) and it can measure the voltage of the battery. When the battery is at 4.2V it is fully charged. That's when the charging circuit shuts off. At 3V it will turn the phone off.
So how does your phone calculate the remaining capacity it shows you in the status bar?
Well it starts counting down from the moment you take your phone of the charger. It expects the 2100mA but ultimately it will shut itself off when the battery comes down to 3V, which it will do sooner when your battery no longer has the expected 2100mA capacity.
So even though it still shows a couple percent of remaining charge it will suddenly shut off.
To prevent that from happening unexpectedly you can let your phone run down to that shut off point at 3V on purpose. It's not good for your battery so don't do it often. Once every two months maybe. Why? Because your phone doesn't only measure how much current you use up but also how much you put in. With a defined start and stop (3V and 4.2V) it can measure how much charge your battery actually can hold. It can't do that with partial charges.
Aside from that. I concur with those that cited battery university. If possible stay between 80%-30%. 80% is kind of hard to do and leaves you with 20% less charge. 100% as long as you don't let it stay on the charger for days on end will be OK. Just don't do full cycles all the time. Do partial charges anytime it won't hurt your battery
And remember, batteries are expendable goods and with the S3 you can put in a new one easily should the old one die. It's inexpensive and not worth losing sleep over.

I don't know about all the technical aspects, but I have put my S3 on the charger every night, and disconnected it when I got up in the morning. I also put it on the charger through out the day if needed. I haven't seen any noticeable difference in the battery since I bought the phone last June. A replacement battery can be had for about $10-15, so even if you had to buy one a year, I wouldn't spend more than about 3 minutes worrying about it...

Thank you all for your responses. I did not mean to.cause problems. I only asked my question because I bought the Hyperion extended battery and the included paper says to fully charge and.fully discharge for the first 4-5 charges to get best battery life. I am in the possess of fully discharging my 3 time...but i am.fully discharging to the point the phone shuts off...but all ive read on lithum ion batteries suggests i should not do this?
Sent from my GT-I9305 using xda app-developers app

check the battery university link for more info but essentially the full charge discharge thing is old calibration method for a different battery tech that requires that method to create a memory effect. li-ion has an active circuit that handles that for you already.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda app-developers app

Does no one own a laptop? Same battery concept people. Laptop batteries are also l-ion and I know for a fact leaving them plugged in all the time kills the batteries and there life is based off charge cycles.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app

Question Battery Misbehaving (Is it just me?)

Just bought this phone brand new and had the sense that the battery was draining pretty quickly. I noticed some weird behavior when charging to full and turning the phone off for some time and wanted to ask if it might just be a software issue. Also had a few more questions.
So the first issue is I saw happened after attempting to calibrate the battery by charging from 0-100% and past 100 until charge current was zero or negative (note I didn't bump charge it). I turned the phone off for an hour and turned it on again and it showed 97% despite me charging it to what I thought was actually 100%. To see if something was draining the battery I turned it off overnight again and when I turned it on it only went down 1% over 7-8 hours. Leading me to suspect a software issue. I used the 60 watt charger that came with the phone.
Another thing I did was try to get a battery health with accubattery. Using the 60 watt charger I'm surprised to see it estimated the capacity as 4400mAh and not 5050mAh. Can anybody confirm if they are getting the same results? (Charged in airplane mode with the internal fan off in a cool ventilated place).
Finally did the Netflix video test to compare the 6s to 5s and they are around the same with the 5s slightly ahead on playtime. Despite me matching brightness close enough that it was indiscernible which display was brighter. I played the exact same video synced and looped on both with audio off and the 6s hit about 14.5 hours at roughly 33% brightness.
Was wondering if somone could run some accubattery tests with the stock charger and see what you get?(you'd have to reset accubattery and charge from 0-100% and past 100% until charge current is negative).
Anyone else having battery wonkiness like this?

Can anyone please do me a solid and check average and max battery discharge rate with accubattery? I'm trying to figure out if I got sold a lemon.
With brightness set to the following at 60 Hz and wifi off.
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And does anyone know if accubattery directly reads discharge current or only estimates it?

Hi. Maybe i am not really
Dog&Banana said:
Can anyone please do me a solid and check average and max battery discharge rate with accubattery? I'm trying to figure out if I got sold a lemon.
With brightness set to the following at 60 Hz and wifi off.
View attachment 5477375
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Click to collapse
This is from my rm 6pro global version result for your reference. Hope it helps for the comparison purposes. Tbh, i never crack my head off thinking about this overnight. But if you just bought the 6s pro and installed this apps to the phone, let it study your usage behavior maximum for a week to get a better result.

Dog&Banana said:
And does anyone know if accubattery directly reads discharge current or only estimates it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been using for months and this part is what i am concerned the most. Looks scary though?

Hey man. Thanks so much for looking into this for me . This is quite helpful
What refresh rate is your display set at most of the time? And do you usually have auto brightness on or is the brightness shown in your screenshot around where it usually is? Do you game heavily daily?
Your battery usage seems a decent bit higher than mine. But I'm glad to see our capacity estimates are in the same ballpark.

Also. I noticed if I charge my phone with the bundled charger. After I turn it off for a few hours and turn it on again the battery % is always suddenly 5 to 9% lower than it was when I turned it off. Does yours do this too or is my battery a dud?

That's not how batteries fail.
Something in the background is draining it.
The charge current draw can vary widely depending on charge state and temperature.
Real time charging current readings are only valid for the first second on Accubattery as once it updates with the display on that will skew the reading. You have about 1 second until Accubattery refreshes so have that window open and look fast.
The power controller won't/can't use the same charging curve with the display on... and will charge much slower. It ramps down the charger current draw to protect the battery when the screen is on. Avoid using while charging.

Dog&Banana said:
Hey man. Thanks so much for looking into this for me . This is quite helpful
What refresh rate is your display set at most of the time? And do you usually have auto brightness on or is the brightness shown in your screenshot around where it usually is? Do you game heavily daily?
Your battery usage seems a decent bit higher than mine. But I'm glad to see our capacity estimates are in the same ballpark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most welcome. It is coincidence that i taking a walk in this forum and saw your post, so it is like my responsibility to respond at least as for your reference. Really glad that i can help you on that.
Refresh rate 99.9% of my usage will be 60hz to get my phone on long marathon for whole day. But i am charging the phone quite frequent as I am addicted to Asphalt9 and i have to settle down with the addiction.
Most of the time i would prefer auto-brightness but would make some adjustment depending on my surrounding. Dragging as your brightness level on your post for your comparison with mine.
Yes. I am addicted to Asphalt9 and keep playing for almost 10 hours per day. And forcing me to keep my charger set standby in my bag to be use whenever it required.

Dog&Banana said:
Also. I noticed if I charge my phone with the bundled charger. After I turn it off for a few hours and turn it on again the battery % is always suddenly 5 to 9% lower than it was when I turned it off. Does yours do this too or is my battery a dud?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just for my own theory. Our phone is like car. Whenever it started, it will trigger all system around the 'engine' and forcing some energy to launch all the applications at the same time before you start to use it. But it side effect is painful to see you battery getting drop that much than giving you a little pleasure for a kickstart of the day. I tried once or twice to check on that kind of situation earlier, it dropped within 1-2% only. But the stranger thing i observed, after it got fully charged, and you unplug the charger, you may see it drooping 1% after few seconds. Still be a mystery to me.

blackhawk said:
That's not how batteries fail.
Something in the background is draining it.
The charge current draw can vary widely depending on charge state and temperature.
Real time charging current readings are only valid for the first second on Accubattery as once it updates with the display on that will skew the reading. You have about 1 second until Accubattery refreshes so have that window open and look fast.
The power controller won't/can't use the same charging curve with the display on... and will charge much slower. It ramps down the charger current draw to protect the battery when the screen is on. Avoid using while charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am totally agreed with you as to test the charging speed, the apps does remind us to turn off the display and check after few moments then you can see the charging process is functioning based on when the charging started & for how long was the screen being asleep while charging.
Psst~~ i have a bad habit by using my phone while its charging as i did right now to reply your comment here.

imNazreen said:
I am totally agreed with you as to test the charging speed, the apps does remind us to turn off the display and check after few moments then you can see the charging process is functioning based on when the charging started & for how long was the screen being asleep while charging.
Psst~~ i have a bad habit by using my phone while its charging as i did right now to reply your comment here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's better to do brief midrange power cycling (40-72), Li's like being cycles like this. It reduces the wear on them a lot. Only takes 10 or 15 minutes.
So when you take a break, let it charge.
You can listen to music on bt with Poweramp with the screen off and not effect the charge curve.

blackhawk said:
It's better to do brief midrange power cycling (40-72), Li's like being cycles like this. It reduces the wear on them a lot. Only takes 10 or 15 minutes.
So when you take a break, let it charge.
You can listen to music on bt with Poweramp with the screen off and not effect the charge curve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another thing i would like to seek your advice, does the 'charge separation' is really useful while gaming? Does it affecting our battery life if being enable frequently for a long hours gaming?

imNazreen said:
Another thing i would like to seek your advice, does the 'charge separation' is really useful while gaming? Does it affecting our battery life if being enable frequently for a long hours gaming?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
High discharge rates and back to back fast charging is hard on the battery.
Best to give it some rest breaks especially when you start using more than 10%@hr.
Expect a battery lifespan of about 1-2 years on a heavily used device.
I watch a lot of vids on my N10+ and will replace the battery after about a year, sooner if needed.
It's simply not worth the risk of damaging the device over a $16 battery.

blackhawk said:
High discharge rates and back to back fast charging is hard on the battery.
Best to give it some rest breaks especially when you start using more than 10%@hr.
Expect a battery lifespan of about 1-2 years on a heavily used device.
I watch a lot of vids on my N10+ and will replace the battery after about a year, sooner if needed.
It's simply not worth the risk of damaging the device over a $16 battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see..and hell yeah to look for a rm6 pro battery is not an easy thing and not always ready on stock.
Fyi, i have some OCD symptoms which i could not see any less than a full charged battery capacity before i am going out. Is it affecting to our battery life span if it keep full charged even my battery still got more than 50%-80%?

imNazreen said:
I see..and hell yeah to look for a rm6 pro battery is not an easy thing and not always ready on stock.
Fyi, i have some OCD symptoms which i could not see any less than a full charged battery capacity before i am going out. Is it affecting to our battery life span if it keep full charged even my battery still got more than 50%-80%?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Watch a tear down for it to see how bad it actually is to replace the battery. Availability will hopefully improve.
In the daytime if the battery has 70% or more of a charge on it, I don't top it off.
At night if it's at 50% or more I don't give it a partial charge until I wake up.
I can charge whenever I need to, so I take advantage of that.

blackhawk said:
That's not how batteries fail.
Something in the background is draining it.
The charge current draw can vary widely depending on charge state and temperature.
Real time charging current readings are only valid for the first second on Accubattery as once it updates with the display on that will skew the reading. You have about 1 second until Accubattery refreshes so have that window open and look fast.
The power controller won't/can't use the same charging curve with the display on... and will charge much slower. It ramps down the charger current draw to protect the battery when the screen is on. Avoid using while charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. This is good to know. Thing is. My battery drops when the phone is off (not screen off, literally phone is turned off) it drops the most after a fresh charge and if I repeat the process it drops very little. Its almost as if it thinks it's charging more than it really is and then drops quickly to the real value?? But here's the thing. It also happens when I do a complete 0-100% charge and then overcharged it until it shows negative charge current. Like the battery should be full at that point shouldn't it? Or is android thinking it's full when it's not and completely cutting current? Is this just a software issue as I suspect?

Ah
imNazreen said:
Most welcome. It is coincidence that i taking a walk in this forum and saw your post, so it is like my responsibility to respond at least as for your reference. Really glad that i can help you on that.
Refresh rate 99.9% of my usage will be 60hz to get my phone on long marathon for whole day. But i am charging the phone quite frequent as I am addicted to Asphalt9 and i have to settle down with the addiction.
Most of the time i would prefer auto-brightness but would make some adjustment depending on my surrounding. Dragging as your brightness level on your post for your comparison with mine.
Yes. I am addicted to Asphalt9 and keep playing for almost 10 hours per day. And forcing me to keep my charger set standby in my bag to be use whenever it required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah I see. Asphalt 9 + auto brightness explains your fast drain. Still it make me worried my 9% per hour drain is too unusually high.
It baffles me that the Redmagic 5s wins the Netflix endurance test vs the 6d

Dog&Banana said:
Thanks. This is good to know. Thing is. My battery drops when the phone is off (not screen off, literally phone is turned off) it drops the most after a fresh charge and if I repeat the process it drops very little. Its almost as if it thinks it's charging more than it really is and then drops quickly to the real value?? But here's the thing. It also happens when I do a complete 0-100% charge and then overcharged it until it shows negative charge current. Like the battery should be full at that point shouldn't it? Or is android thinking it's full when it's not and completely cutting current? Is this just a software issue as I suspect?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not normal. wtf?
Lol, it has a negative attitude
No idea what's causing that but the battery percentage indicator sounds useless.
Return it if you can. May be a mobo failure in progress...

blackhawk said:
That's not normal. wtf?
Lol, it has a negative attitude
No idea what's causing that but the battery percentage indicator sounds useless.
Return it if you can. May be a mobo failure in progress...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did it again this time at 63% and my battery went up to 65% while the phone was off overnight. Only to drain to 62% over the course of 20 minutes with the screen off .
And whenever I fully charge and do a voltmeter hard reset the battery always drops about 7% after the reset.
I think something is very wrong with the battery meter calibration.
Why do you think my mobo is failing?