Today I Learned a LOT about HW acceleration and Android: - Samsung Epic 4G Touch

This girl knows her stuff:
http://goo.gl/6gyvj
(Never again will I complain about a Rom not having the smoothest scrolling in every situation: I had no idea how involved it all is, and how critical the memory issues can become.)
Anyone else besides me learn a lot from reading this?
Edit:
Read THIS as well: This guy fills in all the blanks I didn't even realize existed.... :
http://goo.gl/wmTeC
TL;DR:
There are some folks who work for Google that are freaking brilliant.

Good read, thank you for sharing. I was particularly interested in the comparisons drawn by the author to iOS browser rendering. It also makes you appreciate the additional processing power required by higher resolution devices, especially past the current defacto mobile standard 480x800, while aiming for 60fps (a mark held firmly by the developers if Forza 4 as well, among others).
What part will all this play in Google's efforts to limit fragmentation across devices and Android releases?

I had read the post from Dianne Hackborn the other day, however Andrew Munn's post helped tie it all together. His I had not read until now.
Thanks for the read...

cordell12 said:
I had read the post from Dianne Hackborn the other day, however Andrew Munn's post helped tie it all together. His I had not read until now.
Thanks for the read...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, and I dunno if he is the "smarter" of the two, but he most assuredly is the better writer of the two, at least in terms of "breaking things down" for the layman/everyday user, IMHO.
I found the "Going Forward" portion of his post to be the most fascinating, but at the same time, the most unnerving part of his post:
To think that everything that we use today in Android today could have been done in a vastly different way but for one decision made at a single "fork in the road" years ago is kind of disheartening.
It really makes me wonder how Google will go about fixing it without having to "start from scratch", (because I don't REALLY think that's a viable option.)
It's kind of a shame that they can throw all this new, overpowered hardware at the OS, but still have the constraints of the OS's "overmultitasking" that create a bottleneck for ANY hardware.
I guess that's a reason we're seeing quad-core devices come out...
People say: "Why would ANYONE ever need a quad-core cellphone?"
Now, I understand why....
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Interesting reads, thanks. It seems as if the second author favors a more iphonish experience instead of what sets android apart from ios, true multi-tasking. It seems to me that as hardware continues to improve, and it will, ui "lag" will continually decrease and future phones will actually "grow" into the android framework. Ui lag on our phone is more of a perception than a reality, however the ability to have background programs continually run is a reality. As the author talks about moving more toward ios, ios seems to be moving more toward android. Of course I am by no means any kind of expert on this, but has android weathered the storm of lower spec'd hardware and now poised to be a better "future" OS?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App

Nice, I only knew the basics of how prioritizing was done in android vs iOS, I prefer minor UI lag over one task takes all priority though, especially when android software utilizes multiple threads.
The VM is also a known limitation but it has gotten miles better since the old android days.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Links are dead btw...

akarol said:
Links are dead btw...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Links work fine.
Mebbe u had too many tasks running?
;-)
<<work in progress>>

ClutchR1 said:
Interesting reads, thanks. It seems as if the second author favors a more iphonish experience instead of what sets android apart from ios, true multi-tasking. It seems to me that as hardware continues to improve, and it will, ui "lag" will continually decrease and future phones will actually "grow" into the android framework. Ui lag on our phone is more of a perception than a reality, however the ability to have background programs continually run is a reality. As the author talks about moving more toward ios, ios seems to be moving more toward android. Of course I am by no means any kind of expert on this, but has android weathered the storm of lower spec'd hardware and now poised to be a better "future" OS?
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good question. I like your take that hardware will continue to improve, to "make up the gap", and, I agree, hardware always will improve (ala Moore's Law), but I wonder if "too much multitasking" is such a good thing.
I think it'd be perfect to be able to switch completely, on the fly, between "realtime" UI rendering and "normal" UI rendering, if you so wished...
There are some times where I don't WANT too much multitasking, like the example given with the IMDB site...
When I'm trying to find out the name of the hot blonde girl from "Wild Things", I wouldn't really mind if Android took a break from opening all the other jpegs that surround that specific information.
(That was Denise Richards, btw...)
<<work in progress>>

Relevant:
I saw this reply as the top-ranked reply to the whole discussion on Reddit.com...
I have to say, I think they have a good point:
"Android is like, 3 years old. Preserving slowness for the sake of "legacy" at this point just seems crazy to me.When the Android team says "legacy," what they really mean is "old, abandoned apps that are no longer developed." Well guess what? No one wants to use old, abandoned apps that are no longer developed. They will be ugly, misaligned on higher resolution screens, and usually force close anyway. Do any apps on your phone look like they are from 1.6? No, because you've replaced them with modern apps.They hold up "legacy" like they are the Microsoft Windows team, but it seems like every week an app on Android needs to be updated to fix some issue it has with "this week's new phone". So Android's "legacy" support is purely imaginary. If my "what's new" logs are any indications, any app that isn't constantly updated will slowly accumulate problems on new phones.Stop holding back Android so the worst, ugliest apps can still kind of limp along on newer devices. No one cares about low quality apps.Now is the time to fix the stupid decisions you made when you were making a Blackberry clone. The longer you wait, the harder it will get. Write a new UI framework that values speed above all else. Support the old framework for the ~2 years of life Gingerbread has left (the 2 year old 1.6 is at 1%). Then dump it. Fix your problems and move on. Don't keep them around for your imaginary legacy support.It's almost 2012. Get your **** together. Apple got this right 4 years ago."
Opinions?

Related

How long before Android is available?

Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)
Not happening anytime soon.
1. No unlock yet
2. Brand new coding that has to be deciphered
3. Most people buying this phone don't want android
Buy a bloody android phone if you want android!!!!
Good luck getting the device drivers.from MS.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
What's the point? Aren't WP7 phones and Android phones based on the same hardware ?
android on sd is never going to happen .
and nand maybe when there are phones with way better hardware ( what is the point to port android to a phone with same hardware as hd2)
personally I hope android is never coming to a wp7 phone .
Are you kidding me? if you want android go buy an android phone...... thats like, buying an iphone and hoping someone ports WP7 to it. go buy an android phone.....seriously.....
For information ...
Is in the correct section as this is a question about Android on a device WP7
ShadowLegion said:
Anyone knw when android might be ported to be used on WP7? I plan on getting a Samsung Focus instead of The Captivate so i can get the best of both world, WP7 and Android (if it happens)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see any reason for Android on a WP7 device. That would be like a downgrade.
I think it would be great for apps that have not been released. I would be lost w/o out logmein. There are prob some people out there like me that would love to run wm7 and jump to the android os form time to time to do things like that.
I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.
Quality is perception and experience, not fact.
They are not the same other than they can use the same hardware. They should not be combined. Port the program, not the os.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
I work for a company developing/testing s/w for all mobile devices. I have access to all OS's and I can honestly say that IMO Windows Phone has the nicest user experience and all its lacking are features. Its only been out a week or two so give it time for the bugs to be fixed, features added and the App store to mature and it will be a cracking OS.
Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.
mmelo76 said:
Done cleaning on a thread.
All provocative commentary of lqaddict and responses to it have been erased.
I'm leaving this notice as a last attempt to leave this topic open.
Offtopic's provocations or next, I'll close it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you
MartyLK said:
I've decided to abandon Android on my HD2 altogether now. There's just too many problems or bugginess with it that it just isn't as good as a nice Energy build of WinMo. All of the work they've done with Android over the months and there's still just not fit for use. Currently the best one I've found is the eVo Carbon Remix build by motoman234. But it's a Sense build and I prefer the more convenient Nexus-based builds. However, ALL of the Nexus-based builds are unusable with the number of widgets I use. And the ONLY Nexus-based build that stayed smooth scrolling with all of my widgets in place was NexusHD2. It has a touchscreen problem where the touch is intermittent.
I just can't see Android being of any use for the WP7 devices. It would never be as usable as WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.
markgamber said:
Thank you
I gave up on custom roms altogether two years ago for the same reason. WinMo or Android, there was always at least a handful of huge bugs and/or unacceptable instability and/or limitations and/or stuff that didn't work. I wouldn't say there will NEVER be some alternative OS on these phones and I certainly wouldn't be so pompous to say that there shouldn't be some alternative OS available for those who might want it, but personally, given the speed and flexibility of these devices even now and all the afforementioned problems, I don't think I could really care less. Frankly, if I wanted an Android phone I'd have gotten one but after being spoiled by the iPhone for two years and given all the problems I've had with HTC devices in the past, I have zero interest. Fortunately, everyone is different.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.
MartyLK said:
The custom winmo ROMs are a different story to me. There are a lot of varieties available, and I have used a few, but by far the most reliable, stable and interesting of them are the Energy ROMs. I have zero problems using the one I use and it is fast, nimble and efficient. It doesn't require the constant maintenance the OEM ROM required in order to stay smooth and useful.
Before I flashed my first custom winmo on my HD2, I didn't believe guys sitting at their PCs doing these as a hobby could match or exceed a corporation who's workers were doing it for a living. But this one has shown me differently.
Android just doesn't interest me any longer, ever since using an actual Android phone for a few days. I just lost all drive to mess with it now that I have WP7. WP7 isn't any kind of a customizer's system but it is a system that is clean, smooth and exudes quality from every circuit. Android is like a mid-grade Ford sedan compared to WP7, which is more akin to a high-end Lexus or Infiniti.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)
See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.
markgamber said:
See, here's the problem; you assume we're just ignorant end users who haven't seen the light about android and open software and all that and it's an incorrect assumption. As a developer I've worked with tons of devices over the years and I know exactly what I want in a phone and Android isn't it. iPhone filled the position for a while but that's not it any longer, also. WP7 looks to be exactly what I want in a phone and it's going to get better. Oh...and I might also add that while I haven't had a lot of experience with it as a developer yet, it's been a blast to work with. Probably more so than the iPhone where I constantly had problems with certs and having to make sure I had the right version of OS, iTunes, XCode and iOS target and whatever other hoops needed to be jumped. It's as much fun as your imagination allows and my wife says I have a pretty good imagination.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look at WP7 market now, there is even a thread here started - it is already filled with junk.
Anyway, since you are a developer reach out to MS and suggest what you would like to see in the market, and what you would like them to offer to the users.
Happy anniversary, btw.
ohgood said:
car analogies + ford using windows = lol
the lexus steers itself into a parking spot, so you don't have to think. or learn. or try new things. ;-)
anyway....
i think you would be much better off to use an android device, or iphone for taht matter when trying things with android. the wp7 devices will likely be very, very closed, very locked down, and very not fun to develop on. we're talking about developing anything other than wp7 here, so if someone flames that comment, you didn't read the entire bit.
the wp7 phone i played with @ bestbuy was very smooth (no multi-tasking) and did the very few things it did very well. only hung up when i tried to sms myself, and a reboot (i think this might be standard) fixed it quickly.
the hardware of the wp7 phones isn't going to be exactly like Android devices, and some bits will just never have drivers. unfortunately, this is a similar fate that we've been suffereing from with carriers in the US for a long time. they sell a phone, locked to their service, locked to their GSM bands, locked (no root) to their rom, and then when things go sour they expect you to just buy ANOTHER phone from them.
i'm casting a vote for open hardware, open OS's, and open information. wp7 is still very immature, and will gain some speed with enough time. hopefully some Android centric device manufacturers will release specs and drivers for anyone to play with. i'll bet it takes another 4-5 years before people realize just how much better things can be by allowing instead of limiting themselves.
give it time, you'll be able to emulate iphone hardware on the 3rd core of your wp8 device, or Android on the 2nd, all whiel playing a game AND facetime'ing your vbff.
hell, we didn't htink we'd be shooting HD video on phones not long ago ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the thing...from my perspective...I like closed systems. Simple as that. But WP7 is a closed system with high-end quality. I love the iPhone and will grow even fonder of WP7 as it matures, providing MS stays with a closed system and maintains the emphasis on quality over quantity.
I've had my fill of Android and all it offers. I just...erm...it's...boring, to me. It gives me the feel of a used up hooker. It's been in every bed known to humanity.

Glad I tried it, but...

I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.
Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
Plus, don't chalk up poor performance and lack of BT to Android... our builds are NOT like native Android phones - don't expect it to be anytime soon either... Perhaps one day we'll get it close, but this phone has a tired old processor. Not many native Android phones have our slow processors & run Froyo
Heck, we'll probably run Gingerbread before 90% of the native Android devices officially get it!
Either way, this is just meant to be tested/had fun with. It's not supposed to replace WinMo
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.
arrrghhh said:
Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.
****ing confirmed yihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
F22 said:
Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed... sometimes
Miami_Son said:
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you 100% there! I still love playing with XDAndroid though... any time I start getting bored with WinMo I come play with it. One thing it did clarify for me is the difference between 'application' (WinMo) and 'app' (Android and IPhone) and I now understand why there are more 'apps' on the market... they're more single purpose where WinMo is more of a 'suite'.
This is not a flame as much as it is a testament to the great dev's here at XDA who work so hard at making these Android ports.
Having been forced to use WinMo due to "company policy" and using an Android device on the "sly", I would take Android over WinMo hands down. That is my personal opinion and choice.
And apparently the DEV's have done a great job at porting over XDAndroid to the TP2/Tilt2 as I noticed Miami_Son's signature now states Samsung Captivate (Android Device) as the primary phone and HTC Tilt 2 as "(going soon)."
I just found some humor in that.
Miami_Son said:
I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what ive been saying... its a great gimmick, but im just a windows fan at heart. I mean, games are great on it. Its like, if im picking someone up and im waiting for them, just boot up droid. Its like a mini arcade. I like that about it. the fact i can switch over from business to play. But for everyday use, winmo is just soooo much better for me. great interface. sense is a hog, but whatever. I flash my phone daily so I dont notice anything. i get a fraction of the errors with winmo i do with android.
Dont get me wrong, these ports are BADD-EFFIN-ASS!!! I mean just look at them, you can see the amount of time and energy they put into them. And ill continue to use it as an arcade... but a daily driver??? nnaaahhh
winmo=way2go
I too was a long timer with Winmo (since 2003) before they were integrated with phones...blablabla cough cough old school.
I discovered Android through my touchPro2 and was quite impressed how close I could get to Winmo's capabilities. The early versions of the kernel definitely needed to mature for a few years but in my opinion is now up to scratch...
I acquired the desire HD and have just been blown away by the extent of its capabilities like I was with Winmo in the old days.
Integration of apps within the OS actually make it grow stronger rather than stalls it if you guys see where I'm coming from.
What killed Winmo for me was its lack of good memory and screen resolution management.
All I'm eager to see is a good Office suite replacement and maybe TomTom but doesn't mean I can't edit word docx and navigate...(not at the same time of course).
Lastly, let's be real, Microsoft has pulled the plug on Winmo and Devs have moved on... It's almost as if I was still trying to get divx running on my poor Amiga (which I loved so much but had to let go).
That was my humble opinion, hope it will be understood accordingly. (now where is that Amiga emulator, lol)
Dodsin.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App

WP7 Too little, too late.

I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
The Windows Phone 7 team isn't that big actually. Besides, the iPhone idea began in 2005 and took 2 years to come to life.
Of course, I agree that the lack of update so far is disturbing.
They're basic things but not necessary things. My WP7 gets along much better than any iphone or android without those things but of course I dont use mine as a business device. As a media device it is second to none, I used android for 2 years and never once used c&p or put my phone on anything lower than vibrate. As for multi-tasking if apps were built the way they were supposed to be then they wouldn't need it. They have showed vodeos of how some apps were built to go back to the exact same point when hitting the back button. This is likely to keep it from running slow and becoming unresponsive. Sort of like android which is what I will always consider a "brick-phone."
Purple11 said:
It was released 4 months back
...
and now its almost 5 months since its release
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So which is it? Four or five? Oh wait, it's actually three months and a day since it was launched.
Crawl back under your rock please.
Not again
Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.
You can say somebody didn't use a search button and didn't post this in existing threads.
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
Better ask MS to push any update soon than moan about people who spend their cash and get disappointed by some MS logic.
doministry said:
But at the same time when will you finally understand that the amount of THE SAME complaints is also a measure of a real WP7 reception among customers?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.
Something I learned about Microsoft... never underestimate them and write them off
You don't need to look further than the Xbox series for an example.
emigrating said:
Hardly, as regular consumers don't frequent these forums. The views expressed on this website are so far from the way the average consumer feels it's like comparing apples and houses. The vast majority of consumers are perfectly happy with their WP7 devices as is, don't confuse a few thousand tech-geeks on some website with the average soccer mom down the block or her kid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is complete lie and disgusting excuse for not improving products.
This is indeed some kind of racism.
In fact the truth is complely opposite.
As I work with very many people through the year, I can say I have my own personal survey regarding this, with "average" consumer.
Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public.
Underestimating people and treating them like mass of idiots is disgusting.
Stop this lie.
remember this is just the first release.. sure, it has taken them a long time to make it, but that doesnt mean that the time was wasted.. Im pretty impressed with the amount of speed and fluidity MS has been able to squeeze out of our 1ghz devices
considering the animations present (even android is laggy if not overclocked)
copy paste will be released as an update, which isnt a problem coz remember this is a new OS and not that many people will just dive into it on the first release.
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool
jjblaster3 said:
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
so at the end of the day, we hate the new OS because we're used to the old one.. which is really not cool
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man this is just wrong.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Actually, Android don't do that. Yes, they keep using RAM in background. BUT! In Linux systems RAM is not managed the way they are in Windows.
Windows = The more free memory you have, better, faster.
Linux = Doesn't matter how much free memory you have. It will run smoothly.
So Android do the same thing. Whenever you have free memory, it will keep the App running. When you need more RAM, it will decide which app is useless or less useful and close.
Battery is not affected too.
Under the hood, Android is pretty smart, actually. I just don't like the "above the hood". The widget things and editable home is useful, tough.
jjblaster3 said:
as for multitasking, consider this.. a smartphone isnt like a desktop/laptop pc, only one app can be displayed on the screen.. why would you need another app fully running on the background taking up all the cpu resources while it could just be kept on standby and maybe just part of it could be running (notifications part)
this is the main reason why android and winmo 6.5 were slow in the first place (android wanted to use the same idea but just messed up, thats why 3rd party task managers are there to help out)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just dumb excuse. And not true.
Symbian UIQ devices back in 2007 could multitask without any slowdown.
My computer doesn't slow down even if I heavily multitask.
There are dozens of scenarios when we need it. Becuse current solution leads to idiotic reloading/rebooting apps and processes.
The simplest is when I'm in the Facebook app and get sms and start a short sms chat. When I finnish instead of continuing what I was doing there, I have to reboot everything and go through all the process. It's a crap.
At least IE behaves normally and Word.
Purple11 said:
I am sure everyone now realises how so many critical features are lacking from a phone. It was released 4 months back, but even after 2 long years of wait, it seems to be a 'pre-mature' release.
A 12 year old boy knows that silent mode, copy/paste and multitasking is like a basic thing, and now its almost 5 months since its release and their has been zero updates.
One thing I dont realise is, does it really took microsoft 2 long years to build WP7, what is built in it except the front screen?? All other features which should be in a phone are lacking. And all other interface has been ripped from Zune. So if it takes 2 years for a company to build the front screen of a brick phone with zero options, they should have just contracted SPB Software House Co. and they would have dont it in 6 months and not 2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.
vbetts said:
Why does is have to have those features though? I like Android, don't get me wrong. But people expect this OS to live by Android standards, when it doesn't need to. It's annoying to see the same thing over and over.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Buhahaha! Great one.
Because it's basics!
With this kind of attitude MS has no chance to do anything with this OS.
I just hope they don't think your way.
People expect things because a very high standard is already established.
Did you live in a cave last few years?!
The same was with processor speeds, capactive screens, big cameras.
Do you release today a smartphone with a 1,3mpx camera "because you live in a different standard"? Lol, man.
To little to late? Don't make me laugh.
WP7 launches with:
- Smooth and intuitive interface.
- Microsoft Office Integration.
- Xbox Live integration
- Zune with Zune Pas integration
- Fastest growing marketplace ever
- Fastest boot time of any OS
- Windows Live Integration
- IE7 Port from Windows
- Smart Multitasking foundation with dehydrating applications
First Update for WP7 next month brings:
- C&P support
- Better memory management for faster app launch
- Drivers for newer Qualcomm chipsets
- CDMA Antenna Support
- Phone Backups on Zune
Fall Update Mango brings:
- IE9 port from Windows
- Silverlight & HTML5 support in browser
- Trident 5 Rendering Engine
- Far Eastern Language Support
- More Unspecified Features
I fail to see how an OS with such promise can be too late in a smartphone war that isn't even close to having half of the cell phone market. User bases for smartphones are expected to double within the next few years so I guess the naysayers should tell them all that they have to choose iOS, Android, or RIM devices because smaller platforms like WP7, WebOS, and MeeGO aren't allowed to compete.
With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.
JamesAllen said:
How many more of these idiotic threads do we have to have??? Can the mods close this down? "All other features which should be in a phone are lacking", "a brick phone", how many arguments based upon false statements do we have to tolerate? After years in this forum and intelligent discussions with many members, some with opposite viewpoints, this forum has degenerated to this level? This is really sad and a sad day for this forum. Free speech, I understand, this level of speech I don't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said, nothing to add!
doministry said:
...Most of people who use any kind of smartphone are aware of these things, they just don't have enough interest to voice them in public...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're right with that statement. Just because all the owners of a smartphone out there don't talk about the OS on their phones doesn't mean that they don't understand the topic. I mean, I know a 60 year old man who has never been interested in such things before and who isn't interested a the moment, but he does know what Android, WP7 and iOS are...
AND: WP7 has got a silent mode! Or are you too dumb to turn off the ringing?
Most of people I know using smartphones are pretty much informed about features.
They don't use forums. But they are really disappointed by many things. This applies to all OS'es.
For instance, iPhone is faulty, not solid product. Besides people carrying this like a baby, most of users have power-button **** up...... Never read about it on any tech news portal. Etc......
doministry said:
With a little correction:
All those dates and specified updates are RUMOURS. Not a "promise"
Nowhere officially confirmed, anywhere.
Backstage forums, which are nice, give no info about it either,
neither any official MS info channel.
So we can agree with you above once WE SEE IT.
Now we know nothing, or - a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, the NoDo update is pretty much confirmed. C&P was showed at CES. The codename was confirmed by Charlie Kindel from MS. Paul Thurrott is more than a reliable source of anything MS so I'm willing to bet he's right especially since all of the above features are supported in WCE7.

4G WP7 Phones?

theres alot of 4g monster android phones with front facing cameras down the pipelines especially for verizon (thunderbolt, revolution and bionic) has microsoft announced any plans for a 4g wp7 hopefully with a front facing camera? it seems like they are getting left further behind in hardware compare to android i would love for a wp7 device with a front facing camera but for now ill have to settle for verizons trophy whenever it releases
By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
The current crop of WP7 all use the same QualComm SoC that is already two-year old. Rumor, Microsoft itself hasn't said anything, is that we MAY see additional QualComm SoC support later this year.
foxbat121 said:
By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.
z33dev33l said:
and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.
vetvito said:
Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.
I can't wait for a 4G WP7 phone! True, Android seems to come out with stuff first, but it's probably got it's share of issues. Given that there won't be a 4G iPhone this year, I think we'll be doing good to see some phones during the holiday season at the end of year. HTC and most manufacturers work on a roughly one year cycle, so we should start seeing some pics and rumors leaked during the summer.
The HTC 7 pro looks like a good phone (even though it got some mixed reviews). I think AT&T wil get this phone or a similar one, but it will be at least HSPA+ or LTE enabled. That's probably why there hasn't been any rumors/announcements particularly since MWC just passed. The only news was the Microsoft/Nokia partnership.
I love WP7, but I'll gladly wait to see a true 4G phone if we get it by the end of this year.
Ok, now I see. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I would expect to see one from Nokia hopefully in 1Q 2011. But that is dependent on when Mango is released.
Michael.
z33dev33l said:
Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.
ohgood said:
everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
ohgood said:
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
ohgood said:
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
ohgood said:
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
ohgood said:
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.
As a person who owns both an Android phone (Captivate) and WP7 phone (Focus), I'd say I will hold on to my Captivate for a while until Microsoft can redeem itself with proper WP7 support.
Yes, Android OS update is a mess. But at least Google does release updates couple times a year. So far, MS released zero updates (not counting the pre-update).
And I found the first party quality software/services serverly lacking on WP7. For example, here is a list of must have and use it everyday software/services on my Captivate:
Google Maps: with vectorized drawing and supports in many corners of the world (I used it last year traveling from US to S. Korea and China), Bing map simply can't compete.
Google Navigation: free turn by turn navigation in US. WP7 has zero offering in this area, free or paid.
Google Voice: free SMS and voice mail and cheap internation calls integrated well into the phone. GoVoice/GVice apps on WP7 have too many limitations. I just can't imagine myself use that daily.
@z33dev33l WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
vetvito said:
^ WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it has it's faults but no more so than any other mobile OS. There's not much love because a lot of people come in with the sole purpose of trolling the WP7 forums. I proceed to feed the trolls because it is my nature to debate but that's just me. The OS doesn't appeal to the masses because what did they have as a foundation? Windows Mobile is what everyone thinks and what part of the masses wants to use that aside from a select few masochists? I cannot, however, think of any area in which WP7 "sucks" I've never been more pleased with a device than the DVP and even that joke of a phone the "surround" holds a dearer place in my heart than any android phone aside from the G1. I wouldn't really base tech decisions on what the masses go by though I mean nearly two thirds of cellphone users don't own toilets. WP7 is a valid contender that just showed up late to the game but has all the makings of a great OS. The UI is leagues ahead of any other and it's only got room to improve whereas android is likely just going to continue doing pallet swaps and calling them updates like Gingerbread.
^ You sound like a Zune advocate from 2006. WP7 is headed down the exact same road as Zune. Great reviews, great UI, terrible sales.
If WP7 catches up to Bada, maybe then it would be a serious contender.
You don't seem to understand it, you need the masses if you want to survive in the mobile world.
z33dev33l said:
Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
+1 on the small screen and lack of hardware keyboard. think of the two very simple things apple could do to make an even more killer handset.... ohhh it would be nice.
Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
i'm not getting the lag argument. i see it alot (the argument) but currently don't experience it on two g2's, a nexus one, or a g1. the g1 is generally slower, but lag - where ? switching from one app to another ? loading an app in particular ? i don't see it.
Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
uniformity across what system ? the UI ? the operating system ? the updating system ? i'm prolly already agreeing here, just not sure which one specifically.
People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
can't argue this part at all, i don't install games. even the desktop has no games. hmm, maybe i need some ...
I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.
Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that hack only enables HSUPA which is still part of 3G, not HSPA+. Even the new AT&T 4G phones actually can't get any HSPA+ speed yet, not to mention HSUPA are still disabled on those phones. I feel sorry for those owners. I will not consider any HSPA+ phones as true 4G. Only LTE.
ohgood said:
i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree that they're too little too late. Android was 2 years late and offered a lot less than WP7 does and look where it is now. WP7 is already doing better in pretty much all departments than android was doing at this time and it's only got room to improve. Windows has all the money and resources necessary to force this thing to succeed once they get their head on straight.
Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Focus is capable of HSPA (HSPDA and HSUPA enabled), not HSPA+ (an evolution of HSPA). Even if it did have HSPA+, that's not 4G although T-Mobile (and consequently, AT&T) market it as such.
Real 4G (LTE) speed will be capable of speeds that'll make you consider replacing your high speed internet at home.
Michael.
deadwrong03 said:
hopefully with a front facing camera?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The code is apparently now there to support them in future hardware:
http://windowsphone.mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-to-support-front-facing-cameras/
Of course, since I'm on Sprint that means I can exhaust a 2-year contract waiting them to come to "The NOW Network" (ironic name, eh?).

Went from IOS to Android, is WP7 matured yet?

So when I first got the GSII I thought it was awesome! But 2 things quickly came to fruition.
1.The lightness was great at first but now its almost as a hassle for me, its TOO light, its like I cant even grab it properly like I did with my IP4, im constantly having trouble handling it and it just feels SO delicate! As if its gonna break if I do something wrong or drop it, its too thin for me, that's why Im having trouble holding it at times.
2.Android I have used before and very much enjoyed it but I dunno what happened to me that now its just too much stuff going on for me, with the IP4, it was simple and right to the point, in a way I appreciate all the extra little things that Android bring but I just dont care too much either, surprising cause im a techie. I dunno if its cause I am used to the IP for so long but it just seems like I have to go through more steps to do things that I would only have to do 1 or 2 on IOS. I always get this feeling of cluttered and an unorganized feel on Android while on IOS it just feels simple and straight to the point and organised. I tried WP7 at launch as well and I was super impressed by its UI, smoothness, how everything was so simple and easy to get to/use, frankly I just dont care about customizing and all that, I just want a quick fast and easy experience.
Now dont get me wrong a big problem I had with Android was how it would lag, freeze and sometimes feel like its in a beta stage, I was curious how the DualCore and 1gb ram would make a difference and wow! Im very impressed here! I havent had a single lag, its so smooth and just runs any and everything with absolute ease! This is how I wanted android to be!!
Another thing is the screen, I had 480x800 phones before as well as SuperAmoled and very much enjoyed them, so I was very excited to see the SuperAmoledPlus Display, too my surprise I wasn't that impressed tbh, the blacks are incredible, the contrast honestly seems good but not what I expected, the IP4 seems on par even brighter in some places, but the biggest thing for me is the pixels, since I had 480x800 before and thought it was great, I didn't think it was gonna be a huge difference but wow it is, the retnia display is MUCH better with text. Theres definitely a difference.
All in all Im not sure what to do now, I think I have a beast of a phone in my hands and it IS good but im not satisfied in certain aspects and it seems the months I spent with IOS really took a hold of me, I find myself trying to do little gestures I did in IOS. Theres the IP5 coming but who knows how much that will be and my contract is not up till next year. I cant find a good case for my life on the GS2 while IP4 has several.
Personally I think WP7 is awesome! But the lack of apps and certain things I need is really pushing me away from it. Im not gonna lie sometimes I get annoyed with Apples restrictions and hate itunes but beyond that I very much enjoy it.
Is WP7 matured at this point? I keep hearing negative things about it in terms of sales and popularity.
Wow, somebody who sounds exactly like I was a few months ago!
I have the same issues with Android - admittedly, the phone I had wasn't the most powerful in the world, but then most Android phones aren't, and frankly it shouldn't be the case that it doesn't run properly on anything-but-the-latest hardware.
For me, switching to WP7 was a breeze. Everything that I needed worked straight out of the box - I downloaded Zune and checked the marketplace to make sure all the apps I would need would be available, or an alternative, and so far I'm only missing IM, but that will be included in Mango.
IMHO, whilst WP7 is truly fantastic as it is, it won't be mature until that magical Mango update gets pushed out. I know you can get the beta and what not, and as a Student I'm entitled to it through my dev account. But I'm done with all the hassle of custom roms, betas, and hacks - I just want a phone that works, and WP7 is providing that.
So in answer to your question, no, I don't think it is YET. But in a couple of months' time, when Mango gets pushed, it will be. And thankfully, all current owners will get the upgrade.
Interestingly, I was very positive about Android until maybe a year to 6 months ago. The problem with Android now, is that Google have just gone nuts - they are trying to make it excellent at everything, and in the progress messing everything up.
I admire Microsoft's slower, more considered approach - it means they are really thinking about who their market is, and working out exactly how to serve them. Makes for a much better product for those people, but not so good a product for the mass market of cheap-rubbishy-and-mostly-useless 'smartphones' that Android has created to it's own detriment.
saleswise its the new kid, compared to androids first year were doing outstanding but if you try and compare us now to the 3 year plus OSes saleswise, were just not there. Wp7 for me after the mango beta releases has proven to be the is to beat and with full-blown mango just around the corner its a hell of a bandwagon to jump on. What's there is epic and most of what's not is in mango. Sure you may miss features here and there if you enjoyed pointless and tedious tasks on android but wp7 overall beats out any other os in my eyes and I've now got 8 ex-iPhone users in my family completely sold. That's something I could never do with android.
Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.
In mango, 1 is resolved, 3 was (I believe) resolved by a firmware update by Sammy, 4 is resolved, eBay app works fine now but it underwent an update about a week and a half ago that aided in speeding that up. 6, we now have 25,000 and there's actually good games that aren't xbl now. Google maps has been reproduced in an app called gmaps though I was a google guy and I'm pretty impressed with the latest Bing maps. Of course I think ovi maps will blow em all away... Gmail works fine, I've used it since wp7 first came out and loved it from the start.
OH and no native youtube app which I love on Android, thought that was weird.
solidkevin said:
Hmm....As far as things I didnt like with WP7, let me try to remember.
1.Cant save Camera settings.
2.No Drag and Drop files.
3.Stupid SD Card thing on Focus
4.No ringtone....
5.A couple of the apps didnt seem optimized properly? The eBay app in particular was pretty bad.
6.Not a lot of apps/games.
7.Dont have or use xbox live, Im a PS3 guy, not a negative though.
8.again Im a google guy, love maps, gmail etc.
Overall very few little things. I very much enjoyed it, just as I said it felt like it was in its baby stages and was missing apps that I use a lot, little and big features etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS
I have gone from WM, to iOS, to Android, back to iOS, back to Android, to WP7, back to Android, and then back to WP7. I like to keep up with all the advances in technology.
I currently have an IP4 for work, HD7S for personal, and the Iconia A500 tablet. This gives me access to all the apps for all three platforms.
My first run with WP7 was great, but the lack of skydrive integration struck me as stupid. So, I went back to Android for a while (more on that later). I am now running the Mango Beta, and the skydrive integration is a key factor in the usability of this phone for me. Without access to an SD or external memory storage device, it makes using WP7 for anything serious very difficult. Now, I just do my file management on skydrive (from my laptop or desktop) and it works beautifully for my needs. I also use Windows Live Mesh to sync my skydrive data between all of my PCs.
There are so many little things in Mango that you don't notice right away. It's these little things that impress me the most with where MS is taking the WP7 platform.
I don't hate iOS or Android, however, iOS is nice and simple but almost preschoolish in it's nature. It's hard to get excited about grids of icons. iOS fanboys will say, WP7 is just a bunch of tiles. This is a gross understatement of what WP7 is. This is all they have to combat an OS they do not understand. For me, the WP7 UI is all about intelligence. Where iOS is preschool, WP7 is about to graduate highschool and start college. Don't get me wrong, I realize this is a dramatization but there is a point. I prefer things in my life that make me feel more intelligent. iOS does not do that for me. It actually makes me feel more like a sheeple.
Android has a lot going for it. It also has a lot going against it. There are too many flavors of Android and too many variations of features and capability. This causes problems with apps not working on your particular device, Devs not supporting your particular device, your device not getting updates to enhance app support, etc. The other major issue with Android, one rogue app can wreak havoc on the entire system. This rogue app can kill battery life, hinder performance and just ruin the entire experience. This is much like Windows 95/98 before XP helped get the app management under more control. Another issue is with the way updates are handled. Once malware starts spreading on Android, it will be much more difficult to get necessary patches/updates because of the update distribution model using by Android OEMs.
I originally upgraded my Samsung Focus (which was in the box for a few months) to Mango. I was so impressed with the update, I picked up an HD7S. This device, along with Mango, has managed to convince me to use WP7 on a daily basis. The most important apps for me are: LED flashlight, GPS/Speedometer, USA Today, Engadget, BoA, DirecTV, eBay, CraigsList, Netflix, Wikipedia. All these apps are available on WP7. I also appreciate the built-in hotmail and exchange support, Office, Zune, Xbox, and the social integration aspects coming with the Mango update. I really wish there was an HBO Go app available though.
So, in short, while there is no single mobile platform that is the best at everything, WP7 (with Mango update) is what works best for me.
z33dev33l said:
Lazytube while not native has proven to be in my opinion the best YouTube app on any OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I 100% agree with you. It's an amazing youtube app.
There is a "native" app that IE will look for. It works okay... good for embedded stuff.
doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still can't believe you still troll these forums a year later with idiotic comments like "inferior" as if they were fact. You need to point out that you're making an opinionated comment, rather than continuing to post as if Google demolishes Windows Phone. "Without Any Hope" - I can't believe I'm honestly the only person commenting on this. You go into every thread that has a hint of positive outlook for WP and you bash it and priase the crapstorm that is Android, and constantly get into a situations because of it. Just... Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
As for the topic. You'll see a maturing app market with the release of Mango. A lot of your main issues (with the exception of a file manager based system) have been addressed in Mango, and honestly, as far as files you can use SkyDrive in Mango just as easily. You can even set up SkyDrive in Windows Explorer on the PC as a "drive" and just drop into there, tbh. Ringtones and such have been fixed, and the addition of APIs are going to allow developers to really go at it now.
I also second LazyTube as the best YouTube app I have ever used, and SuperTube is a close second.
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly you still see their posts when they are quoted, thats one thing I wish could be fixed in all forums.
FiyaFleye said:
Stop posting here if you aren't going to offer any real information pertaining to the OS, all you do is post your biased trash.
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Click to collapse
All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".
z33dev33l said:
Yeah, there's about 4 or 5 people that if you put them on your ignore list the wp7 forums becomes a much more pleasant place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just don't understand why he needs to go into every thread and state his personal dislike for the OS and admiration for Android, even if threads that have zero to do with any sort of comparison. And then he has the audacity to blame the other people as though his word is the ultimate speech. He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.
doministry said:
All of my posts contain real info regarding this OS.
There is no single wrong info I'm giving here.
If the questions are asked answers are given. People here use both OSes or more and also want to know more than your endless love for WP7.
And would be great for you instead of constant whining give any real info about OS instead of opinionated and subjective blah blah like "it's the best I've seen".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I give realistic answers, I just stated FACTS as to why it would mature, I didn't spew some crap like "inferior to Android." You take your personal feelings of what an OS should have, and make them defining requirements. You're in a Windows Phone section, I'm sorry that people here actually research and like the products they purchase.
FiyaFleye said:
He's been doing it for a year, and honestly, it's getting old.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.
doministry said:
You see it's hard to discuss with you because you're nothing than a disgusting liar.
A YEAR? I have WP7 since Dec so it's 9 months.
And my attitude changed in April. So it's 4 months.
Stop spreading FUD about my person.
The thing is you have no real answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, you've been spewing venom since way before April, thanks for trying though. People can easily look up your posts. Go to the Android forum, please, spread your love over there, not here. I have more than real answers, thats your response to everybody "You have no real answer, you have no real answer" - "oh you started it" - wrong buddy, you start it with your garbage.
Pfft... And the call me a troll every time I post a thread that isn't "zomgroflmaocopter I love android so much that I'm gonna 'splode" I understand that this is a predominately android forum and that's cool, whatever, they have devices so cheap I could buy one for 50 bucks, of course they're the most popular. They cost as much as a feature phone in some cases. However, we have our niche here and people such as yourself,n8ter, vetvito, etc. Just tend to spread unwarranted hate. I don't even know why you guys bothered picking up wp7, most of you were talking crap about it well before you supposedly got it.
doministry said:
1. I think you'll be able to save it in Mango, I saw it
2. Not going to happen and it's one of dozens of reasons WP7 is inferior, lack of file manager has terrible consequences
3. No idea
4. I think it will be fixed
5. Will be fixed I believe
6. Growing constantly however many things still missing without any hope
7. Well no choice here but equally you can't use XBOX on Android right?
8. Gmail is there, maps in it's glory - not, and it's a letdown.
For me WP7 is totally wasted opportunity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really showing off ur trademark here. now for a REAL answer to what he's asking.
mango solves all of the concerns one had about wp7 in the early days and with SkyDrive,the lack of a file manager or drag and drop support is no issue at all to me or anyone else here that's made the switch (a workaround is in progress to provide USB storage support). apps really aren't a big deal like the are on android and iOS because alot of things can be done with the OS on its own through its included hubs and such, I can even watch videos from the full YouTube site with the html5 option enabled which negates the need for a YouTube app (especially since they don't show all the videos ). all in all you will love mango even in its beta state right now, everything works and works well.

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