Develop Bugs

GPS Navigation is killed by incoming phone call

http://tweakers.net/reviews/1625/1/interview-microsoft-over-windows-phone-7-inleiding.html
In WP7 (they say they might fix this later), if you are using the phone for GPS navigation....and receive a phone call....the GPS software gets closed by the OS.
No, really.
discuss.

I think, in 2010, this is just sad.
That's all I have to say.
Sent from my HTC Desire using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk

I just don't understand what they are thinking.
Mights as well buy Palm and continue developping their OS.

I hope HTC buy Palm and develop webOS phones instead of WP7 ones.

If they want to lose some money then yes, buying Palm would be a good idea.

Lose money? I don't think so.
Palm is cheap, they get lots of patents and a great mobile OS and don't have to pay license fees to Microsoft anymore.
Better than making phones that can't even get a GPS signal while on a call.

Palm is losing money and breaking even is nowhere in sight. They have less than 12 months worth of cash to stay afloat, and their losses are accelerating. Great example of how consumers care for keeping GPS applications running while in a call. Buying them won't change that. Maintaining an OS is an expensive business, and it will be even more competitive in the nearest future, especially with Google paying everybody left and right to make and sell their phones.
Whether WP7 will sell well or not at all will depend on many things, among which multitasking is hardly a crucially important one. Making WP7 phones, on the other hand, relieves HTC of any and all present and future patent headaches forever, without buying lame ducks like Palm.

You forget the hardware patents.
Anyway, pretty useless discussion, since it's totally impossible to say whether they would lose or win. Apparently, they're interested in buying them, which means they apparently think that they could benefit. In any case, your statement was inappropriate, cause you don't know anything.
Back on topic, it's really sad that in 2010, we still have to deal with operating systems that can't multitask. Big fail.

... This is sad man. WP7 was not exactly well thought out was it.

nsane said:
In WP7 (they say they might fix this later), if you are using the phone for GPS navigation....and receive a phone call....the GPS software gets closed by the OS.
No, really.
discuss.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not at all what Kindel said there. he isnt even talking about navigation and he actually CONFIRMS that such services (GPS, Navigation) should and will be able to multitask in the future(probably not at the first launch).

What's the difference? To say something will be added in the future is exactly the same as saying it doesn't work.

vangrieg said:
What's the difference? To say something will be added in the future is exactly the same as saying it doesn't work.
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Click to collapse
exactly. it seems the WP7 first launch version will be VERY poor in functionality. but after all I still don't get it why they just didn't "boost up" 6.5 and add Silverlight, NDA, new home screen concept (HUBS) on top of it and everything previously known is still working fine....

RAMMANN said:
I still don't get it why they just didn't "boost up" 6.5 and add Silverlight, NDA, new home screen concept (HUBS) on top of it and everything previously known is still working fine....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what they actually did. They just got rid of GDI (which didn't "work fine"), and replaced it with SL. The latter, being a web technology, simply doesn't have the stuff we're all missing (i.e. interaction between applications, file system access, native code etc. etc.). So getting many of these features in WP7 will require that they appear in SL and then get ported to the mobile platform I guess. Some of them (like SD card support) are dropped because they don't make sense without file system access. Others (like sideloading) are probably policy decisions which make some business sense (they need to populate the Marketplace as fast as possible, and providing alternative ways to distribute apps might not be a great idea to achieve that).

[Q] Tethering

I rang t-mob Uk on saturday to see if tethering on their omnia 7 was permitted or not.
Intially the woman started to read the specs of the wrong phone. She then said that tethering via bluetooth and usb works.
Not convinced, I did the live chat via the t-mob site. This time I was told that tethering via Bt and usb is fine BUT additionally the wm6.5 type wifi routing works. I find the later hard to believe and am unsure as validity of the former advice.
Can any one confirm?
Thanks

There is no tethering on wp7 as of yet

There is no tethering option on wp7 yet.

Blimey!!!
Thanks for clarifying this.
The pre-release info was conflicting with some people saying that it was possible but at the discretion of the carrier.
So if I go for wp7 I will then need to cough up extra for a separate data plan for my laptop.
Nice one M$- I have been out of contract since June and was happy to wait for wp7 and now it seems that I can't even do the basics that I have been able to do for the last 10 years.
The Applefication of WM is so disappointing.
I guess I have the option of jumping to the good ship android or buying an old HD2 until M$ add the things that grown ups need or until someone here manages to "jail brake" wp7
Does anyone know when tethering might be added?
Thanks

This is the very first release of an entirely new operating system so people need to be a little patient. Tethering support is coming but we don't know when yet. If you absolutely have to have tethering right now then go with another OS.

Ren13B said:
This is the very first release of an entirely new operating system so people need to be a little patient. Tethering support is coming but we don't know when yet. If you absolutely have to have tethering right now then go with another OS.
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Click to collapse
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!

imaginarynumber said:
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between WP7 and previous Windows Mobile OS versions is why many "less used" features are not yet complete. With WP7, Microsoft actually wants the experience to be fluid and consistent. This means they have to completely rethink and rewrite all the code. There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development. iOS and Android had the same issues with their initial releases.
Good things come to those who wait. Expecting everything in hurry will typically leave you with a bunch of poorly written garbage software. Microsoft has already spoken to both copy/paste and tethering. They will add these features and more. If these features are that important to anyone, they should wait for them to be implemented before buying a WP7 device. Otherwise, there are other choices.

imaginarynumber said:
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... so true... there is no excuse really

I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.

imaginarynumber said:
I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I am not selling you anything. Just giving an educated response.
Nobody is forcing you to buy a WP7 device. I like the way you ignore that ALL the advertised features of WP7 are fully functional. That kind of negates your statement about "products should work when the het to the market place." This has nothing to do with alpha or beta testing. These features are already at that stage of development.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

imaginarynumber said:
I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's about both that and the money. For some reason *cough cough RIAA* Microsoft want users to have to re-purchase whatever files they hope to use on the device.

naplesbill said:
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I am not selling you anything. Just giving an educated response.
Nobody is forcing you to buy a WP7 device. I like the way you ignore that ALL the advertised features of WP7 are fully functional. That kind of negates your statement about "products should work when the het to the market place." This has nothing to do with alpha or beta testing. These features are already at that stage of development.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr....... thanks for sharing the benefit of your education...
Funnily enough I too had an education. This enables me to read posts by Brandon Watson (Director for Windows Phone 7). The same man that said that WP7 would support tethering but at the discretion of the carrier.
Regrettably my education did not include mind reading and thus I did not realise that his statement meant "WP does not support tethering but it may or may not at some point in the near or distant future"
And to which of the advertised features are you referring? How do you know that they all work perfectly? Would the advertised claim that you can "manage.. your email with ease" suffice? Well seemingly not unless you think that having to hard reset your phone in order to delete your windows live account post a typo error is perfection. Or what about the xbox live extras that have been crashing and now removed from the market place?
As consumers we expect products to improve throughout their life cycles. We want features to become better and not just be omitted. It beggars belief that you think that removing givens such as changing ringtones or tetherings is acceptable.
I agree that nobody is forcing me to buy a WP, in the same way that no recalled toyota owner was forced to by a toyota but I guess that toyota never listed non-sticking brakes as advertised features.
Just out of interest- at what point is one allowed to complain? If i wait until I purchase something do I have even less right given that i knew that it was not perfect at the point of purchase?

I love lamp.

kdj67f said:
I love lamp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
????????????????
Beyond my ken, sorry...

I do get your frustration and went through the same feelings.
My Tilt 2 (Rhodium) can wifi tether right now and it works great, why not the next 'evolution'?
I think the biggest reason I found it from reading forums and listening to other users is this:
We (those of us who use XDA and like to push our tech to do our bidding) want and use features such as tethering. What portion of the demographic is MS seeking here with WP7, surely a much larger base then those who live / breathe XDA yes?
There aren't thousands, heck even hundreds, of people with torches and pitchforks screaming for tethering. We on these and other forums are, but that is only a small representation of the customer base.
Simple point.. it isn't a primary feature to include in V 1.0 launch, I really hope they add it, but there are many other features that come before tethering. Technically you shoud be paying for tethering anyway, in addition to your wireless data plan.
From what I have read, you are mad that you would have to pay what they ask instead of circumventing that, as you have been (me too!) 8)

imaginarynumber said:
Errr....... thanks for sharing the benefit of your education...
Funnily enough I too had an education. This enables me to read posts by Brandon Watson (Director for Windows Phone 7). The same man that said that WP7 would support tethering but at the discretion of the carrier.
Regrettably my education did not include mind reading and thus I did not realise that his statement meant "WP does not support tethering but it may or may not at some point in the near or distant future"
And to which of the advertised features are you referring? How do you know that they all work perfectly? Would the advertised claim that you can "manage.. your email with ease" suffice? Well seemingly not unless you think that having to hard reset your phone in order to delete your windows live account post a typo error is perfection. Or what about the xbox live extras that have been crashing and now removed from the market place?
As consumers we expect products to improve throughout their life cycles. We want features to become better and not just be omitted. It beggars belief that you think that removing givens such as changing ringtones or tetherings is acceptable.
I agree that nobody is forcing me to buy a WP, in the same way that no recalled toyota owner was forced to by a toyota but I guess that toyota never listed non-sticking brakes as advertised features.
Just out of interest- at what point is one allowed to complain? If i wait until I purchase something do I have even less right given that i knew that it was not perfect at the point of purchase?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resorting to sarcasm in response to a discussion is pointless. If you don't accept the input of others as valid, there is nothing left to say.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

naplesbill said:
Resorting to sarcasm in response to a discussion is pointless. If you don't accept the input of others as valid, there is nothing left to say.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The sarcasm was a response to your condescending tone. If you want to take the holier than thou higher moral ground then go for it.
As a long standing WinCE customer I have a right to vent my frustrations and disappointments.
By the same token i don't own an iphone but I retain the right to b!tch about the fact that their greed has (indirectly) fugged up my preferred phone OS.

brytonic said:
I do get your frustration and went through the same feelings.
My Tilt 2 (Rhodium) can wifi tether right now and it works great, why not the next 'evolution'?
I think the biggest reason I found it from reading forums and listening to other users is this:
We (those of us who use XDA and like to push our tech to do our bidding) want and use features such as tethering. What portion of the demographic is MS seeking here with WP7, surely a much larger base then those who live / breathe XDA yes?
There aren't thousands, heck even hundreds, of people with torches and pitchforks screaming for tethering. We on these and other forums are, but that is only a small representation of the customer base.
Simple point.. it isn't a primary feature to include in V 1.0 launch, I really hope they add it, but there are many other features that come before tethering. Technically you shoud be paying for tethering anyway, in addition to your wireless data plan.
From what I have read, you are mad that you would have to pay what they ask instead of circumventing that, as you have been (me too!) 8)
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Click to collapse
Hi there Brytonic
here in the Uk t-mobile are more upfront about internet charges and tethering (branded as web'n'walk). My curent contract includes free tethering whereas my previous one had a small premium for the right to tether (which I was happy to pay).
The cost of internet access only without voice is significantly higher than a voice account with web'nwalk bolted on. So if i were to buy a sim free WP the web'n'walk part of my bill would remain unchanged but I would additionally need to pay for web'n'walk for my pc
I agree that we here are only a fraction of the intended market place but it gals me that Microsoft leaked that tethering would be supported.
Am I really being unrealistic to expect a £500 phone to be able to do what my Ericsson T39 could do back in 2001 (ie work as a bluetooth modem)?
If it were the case that we had to wait for the 3g over wifi routing then I would have no problem as that is an enhancement of what I consider to be a rudimentary function.

kdj67f said:
I love lamp.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL!!! Don't start!! Did "I love lamp" on Facebook and it got way into territory reserved for R18
Actually - maybe that is what this thread needs lol

CNET's Molly Wood takes Mango for a spin

Have you read about Brandon Watson's challenge to Molly Wood? What about her first impressions? Do you feel her complaints are valid?
Please don't derail this thread into an Android/W7 argument (again!), she happens to have lots of followers and any of her criticism will resonate with many and in my opinion will help address some things faster (some things she hasn't discovered yet so try to give a her break on that).
I'm not running Mango so I'd like to hear from people who do and know if they agree with what she has to say.
http://news.cnet.com/molly-rants/

The only problem with her review is that too many of her "cons" are simply based on ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense). She didn't know the correct way to do something on WP7, and tried to apply Android techniques. When they didn't work, she assumed that the feature was either broken or missing.
If her followers read those criticisms and assume she is right, it may prevent them from giving WP7 a fair chance on their own.

Yep. Tis already begun. Two commenters have said they won't buy based on "Molly's impressions" and "little annoyances" she's described.
Her only real beef should be with the navigation. Outside of that, she has an argument as to comparitive number of apps. Yet, she hasn't explored the marketplace thoroughly enough to actually talk about what's there. She just knows two apps she uses aren't there.
I'd give her some time with it and I'm certain she'll clear up some of the things she's already posted which are incorrect.

She will... She complained before on her podcast about not having an app for facebook chat then corrected it on her blog after she was told it's built-in. Hopefully the listeners also read the blog, otherwise some might be a lost cause already.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I'm really glad she's made such a fuss over the navigation and I really hope Microsoft pay attention. It's bloody stupid as it is - not matter what the reasons may be (I've heard licencing issues?) Microsoft need to sort this out.
She has some other valid points, but she hasn't (as she admits) touched upon a lot of the more unique features of WP7.5
Casey

Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Peew971 said:
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sure hope it is, because as it now stands, you can guarantee that it will be the cause of a lot of mocking from Android users. And comments such as this one I read on the article page aren't going to help much either:
Well Molly I have to say I actually enjoy the navigation. Think about it, if everyone's satnav did this, that commercial where the guy is driving his car and his wife calls and then the satnav (which is a woman's voice, btw) goes, 'Motel is on the right' and the wife goes, 'MOTEL?!? **CLICK**' that would never happen. While I agree it is a bit of an annoyance, I like it better. And it's fun when it congratulates you. Didn't you say you like the "pretty sounds?" Well when you do something right, it makes a pretty sound. so, please don't harp on what is probably the best implementation of navigation in the history of cell phones. Also, The thing I don't like about other satnav implementations, is that they get annoying. "In 1.5mi. turn left onto Camino St. then turn left onto Avery Avenue" then .25 mi later it says nearly exactly the same thing. For me what's great about the Mango implementation is that you only have to listen to the annoying computerized lady voice when you forget what your next turn should be. That's the brilliance of the Mango implementation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's one thing to defend Microsoft for having no choice but to implement the system as it is due to licensing issues, but it's quite another to try to make the absurd claim that this system is better in any way. It's not.

it wasn't a biased or negative critique. id say it was spot on, by a regular user trying to use it as a daily driver. speaking of daily driver, I had no idea navigation was so broken. ugh !
yes, ios and android are mentioned .... if you are surprised or annoyed by this, smell some coffe. ios and android are dominating the market for a few reasons, this review sheds light on them.
improve and enjoy some success microsoft !

The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title

Peew971 said:
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And also how can an average user FIND OUT that Facebook chat has an inbuilt Messenger?

Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.

I agree completely. She made so many mistakes and it was obvious she didn't bother researching any of her so called problems. The majority of the stuff she said wrong was corrected in her comments which she clearly didn't read. What a joke.
naplesbill said:
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

was Molly Wood ever a man ?

Professor Simon Peach said:
was Molly Wood ever a man ?
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I dunno, but the poor girl looks 10 years older than she really is.
And a little less sex in the city marathons with a jar of burbon/jug of martini, and a little more technology knowledge would be nice. Especially for a CNET writer.

Outlook and calendar
Watching a relative of mine having the Galaxy II, then I really understand how far behind email and calendar is... I just can't believe that she couldn't see that!!!
Merging mailboxes with threaded email... Outlook, Gmail, Live and Facebook calendar all in one with different colors... even better than the pc-version
Someone should have assisted her with this... someone who understands the value of it...

All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.

if she got final mango like everyone else, there is a nice book to help the transition. right in the programs menu. with videos and text to speech for every, single, thing.

Peew971 said:
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
If a person is coming from a standard phone to WP7 their impressions will be different, then those coming from another platform. I personally don't find any of the OS's easier or harder to use they're just different, with their own learning
curve. All reviewers bring their own personal bias into reviews IMO. The question is whether you think WP7 is better, not equal to other platforms. If you ask that type of question you have to take the good with the bad.
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.

phoneguy 4567 said:
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Than, they'd complain there's no default/built-in Turn by Turn Navigation. This is a no win scenario. People have to realize that MS was severely neutered by that anti-trust law suit. Now they are alot less aggressive & very careful so they are not sued again in this manor. Besides, people forget the 3rd Party apps like Garmin/etc & the fact that Nokia's map app is coming. The Mango Turn by Turn Navigation is nothing more than a way to tie people over till that comes.
Now, don't get me wrong, WP7 & Mango are far from perfect, but MS is working on it. They just posted a job listing to bring better PC/WP7 USB syncing of docs/etc.
Finally! Microsoft planning to connect Windows Phone and the desktop
Molly is supposed to be a power user btw, & she got so many things wrong in her review. I have to wonder if she even tried. It took her 2 weeks to set up WP7, it took me 2 hours tops. She must of never looked in the Office/Pictures Hub as she claims there's no Skydrive integration. Her review is nothing more than a joke. Scott Adams did a better review & he's an "average user," go figure.....

I think the only thing Molly can do now is to read up and post another review along the lines of "When I learnt how to use it" which should correct most of her errors.
Of course, as has been pointed out, if she genuinely made these errors then there must be a reason...(and I'm not going to say she's stupid).

FBI = CIQ

http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!

crzchn said:
http://www.muckrock.com/news/archiv...rrier-iq-files-used-law-enforcement-purposes/
Thanks all you devs for keeping us safe from the people who are supposed to be keeping is safe!
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Click to collapse
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
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Click to collapse
lol.. hopefully they use it for the greater good.... thats all i would have to say, there is a lot of sickos out there.

Dwayneiztheshyt said:
That's some scary stuff.. so since my phone is rooted.. they can't do this? Honestly.. I've never doubted the fact that the FBI or the government had the ability to trace my calls and see everything I did.. In my plot to take over the world I.. I never planned to use a cell phone
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.

crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
But if they want to know something, they will find a way. I think, however, we should not make it easy for them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Aha ha I agree!
Sent from my SPH-D710 using xda premium

crzchn said:
Your phone has to be more than rooted to get rid of CarrierIQ, it needs to have a custom ROM as well that states that it has CIQ removed. Unnamed ROM is the best I have used so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.

the worst part about ciq and other non government agencies collecting data is that they are used by the fbi and cia to share info... which is illegal through direct channels. also, a third party collecting our info and delivering it to the carriers is totally unacceptable. theres tons of threads in the OG epic forums... as thats where konane first found and decided to kill CIQ. i honestly wonder if all the anti-ciq stuff really started there... then the tech pundit sites reported what was in these forums as usual... then the mainstream noticed... idunno. as far as plots to take over the world/bring down systems... keep it analog like good music. all the major telecoms have an open door policy w the feds... so its not like they would need CIQ for normal investigations... and they have a grace period to get warrants after they look at the info... patriot acts sealed the fate of privacy and liberty in this country. all because of a now dead boogeyman living in a cave... good job america... something about a jackboot on a human head... forever...
/rant

nivron said:
Looks like the FOIA request was denied because the data the FBI has is currently part of an investigation. It is possible that the investigation is into CarrierIQ instead of some person. It may be sign of a good thing.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the FBI. You don't think while they are combing through all that data while investigating CIQ they won't "stumble" upon certain things? Or mirror those servers? Or realize how useful to them CIQ is and say they've found nothing wrong with what CIQ or the carriers are doing?
Do you think for a moment the FBI isn't already using CIQ as a resource to catch 'terrorists'? Like how the airlines use full body scanners and the TSA to catch 'terrorists' with the same high (lmao!) efficiency.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2011/12/12/fbi-says-carrieriq-may-be-used-in-law-enforcement-proceedings/
Not saying you think any of that, just making a point. I'm pretty sure most of us are on the same page with this crap.

I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.

sfhub said:
Actually you can disable CIQ once you are rooted without needing a custom ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the code may be embedded deeper than we thought. Not just at the system or kernel level, but further. I'm no microprocessor engineer but doesn't almost every chip have instruction sets or at least some sort of code written into it? Because when CIQ itself says one of the 3 methods of loading it on the device is at the hardware level - that's what it sounds like to me. Literally the chips are programed with CIQ in the code.
Remove that.

then we would have to disable it in drivers

xlGmanlx said:
I think even if it is big brother watching over us, who cares? For the 99.99999999% of the US population, nothing your talking about is that important or a danger, for the small fraction of the folks that this applies to, i welcome it. I do however take issue with the fact that once the lid was blown off, how the company responded (legal action against Treve) and their continued un-truth's. Do we really think that this sort of monitoring isn't taking place now? Pretty much anytime you use a computer/IT resource for any company or agency, you consent to monitoring, the difference is declaration.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh man, here we go with the "I don't have anything to hide so why should I care" section of this conversation.
I'm not embarrassed about having sex but I sure as hell am not going to let you watch. It's called privacy. Has nothing to do with having things to hide, it has to do with the basic human right to have our own space, time, thoughts, gadgets, property, voice, opinion, and so on.
There are no saints either. Everybody has lied, cheated, stolen, done something wrong that would get them in trouble. Sometimes it was a mistake or even an accident. Does that mean black helicopters should have descended on you to whisk you away to a 5x5 cell without trial? No, and why without trial? Because at this point they don't need a warrant and as per the Patriot Act you don't even have to be charged with something to be held for, well, forever. So no trial is the next logical step.
Just a little interesting fact, the US Patriot Act is actually an acronym for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"

just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
KCRic said:
snip
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......

I never doubted the gov would trace. Glad its gone.

This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete

xlGmanlx said:
just calling out the fact that more than likely this already takes place and we didn't even know it before and how many CIQ's were there before them? Also, I think you are making the same similar leap. CIQ is step one, step 2 is no trial/minority report type tactics? I agree that privacy when possible should be maintained, but lets not be naive and think that it hasn't already happened.
Prime example of the worst offender? Facebook, yet no one is up in arms about that......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.

pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us ....
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Protect us from what?
Sent from Tapatalk

Agreed, and I believe this was a huge oversight on their part. The point i was trying to make is there are plenty of other spaces where the privacy is willing given away with little notification and facebook is one of them. Hell they have been told they are to comply with any audits for the next 20 years.
phatmanxxl said:
You can choose weather or not to participate with Facebook, and it is in their TOS, CIQ however, was not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

pasta1234 said:
This whole CIQ thing is being blown out of proportion if you ask me.
If you have nothing to hide then you really shouldn't worry, regardless.
At the end of the day these agencies are trying to help protect us weather you believe it or not. Just like with every system there are flaws that doesn't mean we should abolish them, but rather make them better !!
Pete
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ugh, that argument just makes me sick. Those agencies are trying to protect their livelihood, which comes from protecting us, but it's not the same thing. Police detectives get promotions partly based on their case closure rates, that means they have self interest in closing cases that might not be quite airtight. Because who doesn't want a promotion, with the prestige and money that comes with it. The CIA was certain iraq had WMD's, and was trying to obtain yellowcake uranium from Niger, because blockbuster findings like that lead to more funding, which means more turf for those section directors. They aren't all bad obviously, on the contrary I'm certain most of them want to do the right thing. It's the few that don't because they care more about their career than anything else, or the guy that is trying to do the right thing but simply gets it wrong. Mistakes happen, data gets misread or incorrectly analyzed, and people suffer for it. I don't want to be that unlucky person, so I don't want that crap operating on my phone.

Anyone tried j2objc yet?

Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?

lapucele said:
just realised this may be the wrong subforum to post the above question. Could this thread be moved?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
There's always the cydia market place which I hear is still fairly profitable...up until recently I wasn't even aware that is was a paid market place, I had always been of the impression that it was a hackers market for people who 1) mod their device tweak it like us android users 2) jailbroken (but stock and no alternative to iTunes) 3) People who pirate apps.
However i have learned that it has quite a following an even some developers release on both iTunes and Cydia.
Anyway just my thoughts. I am in contact with a developer that is into the whole cydia thing so if you have any questions you want answers for give me a holla
James
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.

lapucele said:
wow thanks for the heads up! i've heard varying stories too. i totally didn't think of the 3rd party app stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I'd mention as I only heard yesterday, but the newest edition of the app store for Apple is called AppCake for Apple. Apparently Apple is now going about systematically shutting down every 3rd party non-apple owned store including the non so legitimate suppliers of of Apple after market hardware products. That means everyone with anything that connects to an apple product that isn't apple or made by apple is a target. Geeese they don't let up do they? Developers mention that Apple will never be able to shut them down :silly: that they can and will do what they like with their iDevices cause they own them.
Oh and other thing to look out for if you go to Apple/iTunes, is this company Lodsys who are world renowned for being patent trolls who are systematically targeting individual developers for breaches in copy right for, get this......'in app purchasing' they claim that they invented it and are now suing several developers from iTunes (them personally) for using the iTunes supplied SDK for in app purchasing. Apple is doing the right thing and trying to defend these developers but the World IP org and US patents office can't do a god damned thing about it until things hurry up and get pushed through a ballot of senators to have groups like them shut down. Until then they are working their best and fastest with trying to sue as many people as they can! Unfortunately for most its a loosing battle as they don't have the money or resources to fight these bastards so they end up paying up. In an new interview I heard one company claimed it was cheeper to settle for 100K out of court than what it was to commit to defending them selves even though this group targeting them was 100% wrong.
But not meaning to scare you...or anything just keeping you filled in. Me personally I would write them a letter saying 4 words on one line followed by 4 words on a second line "Go f*%# your self" "See you in court" and go seek one of my dad's barrister friends to do it no win no fee. Screw that. I would be flaunting that I have in app purchasing sayin come at me bro
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/04/app-developers-lodsys-back
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/hey-patent-trolls-pick-someone-your-own-size
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/...t-patent-trolls-and-not-going-take-it-anymore

Jarmezrocks said:
Actually I clicked on here thinking myself that this was for "application porting" as I came from the front page, and then it wasn't till I saw you replied to your own thread with the above that I realised? I think there is a bug in the forums, not you posting in the incorrect location?
Anyway to discuss your topic, I have recently downloaded all the necessary stuff to do as you are considering. One thing to be careful of is the fact that Apple from my understanding will give you their wrath if they find out.
Apple software is ONLY to be run on Apple hardware, If they find out (and they have their ways from what I have heard) you instantly banned for life. I guess nothing stopping you starting again, but remember your app is pulled and you kind of couldn't get away with releasing it under a different name account again later on without them knowing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.

out of ideas said:
No you guys are right. This is for porting apps across platforms, but people seem to confuse it with ROM porting.
Q. I know pretty much zero about iOS, and generally have always been anti apple. Are you trying to say that using something like j2 on lets say a virtual box on windows, is somehow a detectable and bannable offense in apple land? It's late and i might be just be misreading, but would like to know.
Mostly because i picked up a job on an Android app, and have been talking a bit about putting the app out for iphones after I finish up the android version, but don't really know where to begin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Research and Understanding
Yes that is exactly what I am saying. To run Apple in a VM is in breach of their TOS and Usage policy. It also entitles them to seek prosecution also; so not just a ban from iTunes. Going by Apples past history I wouldn't put it past them? Although now with Tim Cook in charge of things I think Apple is going about things a bit more differently now? For better or worse (people had their opinions of Steve Jobs - personally I disliked him but did appreciate his success and achievements for what they stacked up to be, personal opinions aside it takes a great person to do such) Apple is starting to become a bit more valued in collaborations as this is what Tim Cook always wanted working for Apple that he was never able to have whilst Steve was the master of the helm. Tim Cook was more about getting the job done and sharing. Steve's ongoing vendetta litigations were not Tim Cooks choice and/or advice. He didn't want such things from what I have read? More recently his involvement in legal matters has been observed as retracted and no confronting; he has proceeded to do these actions as part of Steve Jobs dying wishes and nothing more.
As far as I can tell he wants to nothing more than to get things out of the way and over and done with so that he and his company can move on.
My thoughts on this as an observer in the mobile tech industry is that I think Apple has dropped the ball a bit, and it is probably far too little far too late. However with a company with that much money behind it? There's only speculations about what holds in the future of Apple? They are certainly not going away or going to fall in to ruins that's for certain.
What I mean is that, yes there has been a heap of legal stuff seen by Apple and most of it very negative, but my feeling is that this won't be the case here on into the future, so the likelihood of facing a court for breach of Terms of Use are likely to be very small. I am sure that editing a build.prop is considered a breach of Google's TOS for use of a device in their Playstore?
Suggestions
My suggestion is to give it a try I have had some issues setting up my VM but have got all the necessary resources including all the software. I have just become too busy and it is not high on the priority list at the moment. I wanted to try gain an understanding of how Apple detects it's visitors. I mean iTunes is cross platform Windows and Mac (There is no release for Ubuntu or Linux AFAIK? only Wine type hacks) I know when I visit the iTunes webpage I am automatically prompted to download a Windows installer package. So they must have some form of automatic detection? Being that the likes of Virtualbox uses a shared internet connection I would speculate that you would need to choose the correct adapter settings so that your VM is seen to be a running physical machine and not a able to be identified as a shared connection or virtualised connection?
I didn't get this far as my installation has many issues. I still have the VM though for future interest. Feel free to PM me if you give it a try and don't succeed and I am happy to share what things I discovered in my problem solving.
Understanding Limitations for Cross Platform Mobile Development
As for the porting to OS's I believe there are many offerings around now that provide developers with a cross platform arrangement. Essentially only the UI resources need to change and then that plugs into a framework structure for your application to run in. You compile the code individual applications that are specific to the platform but you ARE able to develop your main code independent of the platforms. Languages such as Flex or Rubi on rails are going to be your best bet from my research?
Things You Should Consider
1. Single code repository
2. Individual application frameworks - compilation of application runtime for independent OS type
3. Limitations are stipulated and governed by what is allow at the lowest possible denominator. i.e. You can only build code into your single code repository that can accessed by the functionality of both(or all) platforms. What I mean is that there is no use building a single code repository that uses a function that is limited on one platform and not the other, another example is restrictions dictated to you by the likes of such companies like Apple. They have a strict guidelines and what is potentially available to you may not be in its context. Just because certain functionality is available to you in the Apple platform and you have even seen it in use on Apple devices does not necessarily mean that you can build and release it. In it's context Apple may not like what you are doing with your app and not approve it.
Your single point of code and it entirety has just shrunk in functionality to both devices now. So be careful and Anticipate what you might think the outcome is for your Application facing such scrutinisation and what it could possibly mean for your project as a whole?
On this note I have heard of developers making scripts and add-ons for their said central repository that allows them to restrict things ats compile time. For instance having greyed out selections in menus and a toast like notification to users like "Sorry this functionality is only available to Android users" and things like that.
Hope this helps contribute towards people considering on such ventures. Do your research. Find out what types of apps have been rejected from being published and find the reasons for why?

lapucele said:
Wondering if it's worthwhile before I invest time in creating a Mac OS X VM + Xcode to port my android apps to iOS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will check it in next week