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Hi there, this post is basically dedicated to current users of windows mobile, who bought their phone because of the virtues an open plattform offers. People like us aren't happy with the direction ms is heading with windows phone 7 and hope that the realize their wrong doing by reimplanting things like multitasking, deep-customization, file-system access, native coding or simply copy, cut and paste.
But why should we buy a windows phone 7 device and hope they transform it to something that resembles wm6 offer time when we could just switch to another plattform?
I mean...
- booth the devices we own and the software we use are not compatible to wp7.
- Android basically got every of the above features wp7 is lagging.
- Android devices are aviable or will be released from every major windows mobile manufacture.
- A lot of software studios will produce for Android.
- Through the ndk Google offers there will probably be more windows mobile software on Android than on windows phone in a year from now.
The only thing wp7 got IMO is the ui, and as we all know from endless debates with the iphone-guys ui is a matter of taste and can be ported...
If you're not a Google or Java hater and Android does what you need... don't hesitate.
Android is good. I'm right now playing with an older Android phone, and although it is very slow (old QCOM processor) and has a small screen, I find the experience to be better than the experience I have with my HD2.
I don't have the slightest doubt anymore that Android is better than iPhone OS or WP7S.
It's smooth.
It has a great, flexible home screen (who needs tiles when you got widgets?).
It has by far the best solution for notifications.
It multitasks.
It has a Marketplace and allows you to side-load apps.
It allows you to access the file system.
It copies and pastes.
It has an NDK.
It is available right now and only getting better.
What you don't get is integration with Microsoft's services, like Windows Live and XBox Live. Of course, there's a good chance that you don't care about them.
I've never used an iPhone but I've dabbled in Android for a while. Mostly, through the Poly port for Kaiser. Here's my views on WM6.5 vs Android.
Windows Mobile GOOD
#1 WM5 sucked. Very unstable, and scrolling speed is very slow. WM6 wasn't much different. WM6.1 become stable, but speed still suffers. WM6.5 very stable, but speed suffers. WM6.5.3 is very stable, and the speed is very fast, including scrolling.
#2 True freedom. You have 3 ways to install applications, and the choice for it to be on the SD card or internal memory. Copy and Paste, and all that jazz.
#3 Customization! Like Mc Donald's says, have it your way.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
#2 Only way to upgrade OS is through custom built roms on XDA-Developers. No support from MS, HTC, and etc.
#3 Majority of applications were written in 2003, and have since been abandoned.
#4 With Phone7 coming soon, developers will completely abandon WM6.5, and move onto Phone 7.
Android GOOD
#1 Based on Linux, which means lots of community support.
#2 Already has an established amount of useful applications.
#3 Very customizable. I've seen some impressive 3D stuff.
#4 You can install applications from the SD card.
#5 Copy and paste exists.
Android BAD
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
#2 Very reliant on a internet connection to do a lot of things.
#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
#4 Google might try to take away the "Google" experience from rom cookers.
#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
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There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
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Not anymore, afaik.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
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That's even more true for Android.
But this is not WM6.5 vs. Android. WM6.5 is doomed, so the time will come when you have to switch.
WP7S is not worth waiting for, it's just an iPhone OS clone. So, in my opinion, there's no reason not to switch now, if you want to.
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones
C:Sharp! said:
There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
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I mean the built in Nav software, which the new one is pretty cool. I could use Ndrive, but I really like the built in Nav.
Not anymore, afaik.
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Click to collapse
Maybe it's because I'm using a port for the HTC Kaiser. If that's the case, that can be scratched off the list.
WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones
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Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass. Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
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Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass.
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Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
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MS deserved it.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
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It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now? Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
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This is smart business. Use your existing successes to build a customer base. All smart companies do this...even Google.
WhyBe said:
Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
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Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
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This world.
If you added IE6+IE7+IE8, then you can say it's more popular then FireFox. You have to wonder, if people are still using IE6 then it's most likely they probably don't know about other web browsers, or don't even know what one is. You know the type, logs on twitter, facebook, and myspace and uses AIM to chat to people.
It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now?
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No more then Windows Mobile will have. We'll soon have legacy Windows Mobile 6.5, and Phone 7. Neither are compatible.
Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
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Not sure about Windows Phone 7, but iPhone has it horrible right now.
No porn apps
No emulators
No web browsers
No flash support
Android may not have as many pull my finger apps or farting apps as iPhone, but at least we can have all of the above. iPhone and Phone7 owners will be able to have 100 different choices of how to make fart noises from their phone, while I'll be able to view flash websites. While iPhone and Phone7 will enjoy half ass made games for their phones, eventually Android will get a Playstation and N64 emulator. I consider any Genesis or SNES game to be far superior then any 3D accelerated game they can put on those phones as is.
The biggest blunder from Apple was them pulling the porn apps. Everyone knows the internet and DVDs became popular due to porn. Enforcing that rule is sure suicide, despite the horrible image of me walking into a public bathroom and finding someone wacking off to porn on their Android phone.
When Mozilla ports FireFox to Android, I'll be able to use ABP and NoScript to have a truly secure surfing experience. While IE on Phone7 fails horribly on the Acid3 test. As it is IE9 gets a 55/100 on Acid3.
Just from what I've mentioned I say there's plenty of incentive to go with an open OS. Jail break your iPhone or **** break your Phone7, but you'll be in this endless battle between Microsoft or Apple.
Dukenukemx said:
Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
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Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
I love WM 6.5.3 and right now my phone (TD2) is just perfect the way it is. And if someday I want something to change then I can just flash a new ROM, install a cab or write another tool on my own.
I hate Android because your applications are running in a Java VM and you can't access the OS kernel functions like you can with WM.
Though yesterday I just for fun run Android on a Touch Diamond. I have to admit the UI is really nice done, even though it isn't THAT MUCH different compared to the user experience you get with 6.5.3. Some window animations here and there and I love it like you can pull down the taskbar and I like the multiple homescreen thing. Though I couldn't do a lot of things with it because for most things it needed a data connection (I didn't plug in a SIM card) and USB/WiFi didn't work. Also it asked me to sign up for Google account all the time. On 6.5.3 on the other hand some things are quite better implemented, for example start menu or Sense. I also like it that you can reach all functions through your touch screen. On Android you're always forced to use the hard keys to close a window or get out of an app. After all I wonder if it's possible to hack into the taskbar or bottom bar like I do on WM but due to Java VM environment I doubt you can do that.
After all, right now there's no reason why I should switch to Android. However I don't know what the situation will be in the next 1-2 years. So in the end all I can say: On the longer run it might be the only OS able to replace 6.5.3 in the future but right now it's just too limited for my taste (in other words I can also say it doesn't give me enough features to forget about some limits). But I definitely keep an eye on it
vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
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+100
Thanks Vangrieg, you beat me to it
vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
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It is success, even though the way to reach it is.... strange!?
But are Microsoft doing any better? They're just buying off companies if they need a new feature.
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
vangrieg said:
.. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free ...
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xda-developers provide a lot of free stuff, are they losers too? I don't think so
XDA is not a business, we're here for fun. Oh, and one little nuance, XDA doesn't have 20 billion dollars to burn and can't put an ad on every freakin' web site out there.
Dukenukemx said:
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
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That's not a deficiency of Windows Mobile, it's a deficiency of phones manufactured by HTC. Users of the Toshiba TG01 and Acer neoTouch are very happy with their 3D support, and indeed with their hardware-accelerated video playback of virtually any codec and wrapper format.
vangrieg said:
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
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I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
Actually, if you carefully listen to what Google execs say, it's not working for them. They are very nervous. I agree that one of the key problems is that they just started to diversify. They are doing too many mistakes though which are relatively easy to avoid. It's actually a funny phenomenon you can often see in companies driven by engineers because they're so into technologies and inventions and such that they just can't resist pushing their cool new things out the door. Google is in fact a lot like Microsoft, only less mature and disciplined, in this regard. A contrast to this approach is Apple where hardly anyone ever sees a beta product, and the company is incredibly focused.
Apart from product development, there's one more thing where Google doesn't have a lot of experience, and that's partnering with others. Jobs once said that he absolutely admires Gates's abilities in this regard, saying that in fact, with all the spats, fan base animosity, tensions and all, Microsoft is the only long-term partner Apple has had through all these years, and the partnership works amazingly well for both parties. He even noted that MS is the second largest developer of software for Apple products after Apple. Google has a long way to learn how to maze through all these issues and make lasting relationships. It's one thing to attract everyone with a free product and give OEMs better bargaining position against Microsoft with a mobile OS, it's a totally different thing to carry it on to market leadership with so many conflicting interests and challenges.
Sure OEMs flirt with open source OSes, IBMs and HPs of the world are investing a lot of resources into Linux development and all, but at the end of the day which OS shows up as "recommended" on their web sites? Sure HTC is all about Android, Open Handset Alliance and all that PR stuff these days, but what does its CEO say when asked why HD2 was a WM device? "We have to take care of Windows Mobile first".
WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile?
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This is not going to happen.
Contrary to what some people believe, "fragmentation" does not hurt Android much and it's not what made Windows Mobile die.
Windows Mobile died, because it got zero support from Microsoft over many years. There was no money and no developers. They could easily have made it competitive to the iPhone within a year. But they didn't. It took them one and a half years to even figure out what to do and end all the internal battles, which is an eternity in the mobile space.
Google stand behind their mobile OS and you can be sure that they will fix any problems that emerge. If fragmentation becomes too much of an issue, they'll fix it. If the UI gets outdated, they'll fix it. Microsoft didn't fix anything.
And aside from that, it will take Windows Phone 7 at least another year, to even become an option. Handsets must be launched, bugs will have to be fixed and the Marketplace has to be filled. Only then will it be competitive, if ever.
That's plenty of time before you can even consider Windows Phone 7, thus switching to Android now is not wasted money.
RAMMANN said:
I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
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How can you compare this?
A lot of what Google has done the last 10 years is based on what MS and others made possible the first 10 years.
It's like saying that Ferrari has accomplished more then Ford because they have made better and faster cars the last 10 years then Ford did the first 10.
Ferrari might not have existed today if their wasn't someone that made engines and wheels before them.
Android is the first (open source) Linux OS that has been sold on a device. although you call it open source it's not more open the WM or iPhone.
Google is controlling the development of the OS and anyone can make applications for it.. whats the difference now between android, WM or iPhone? and witch one of them is most open source? all of them have the same. A company that develops the OS and developers making the apps.
I only see MS going less open source with WP7.
and to not having porn apps and other stuff on iPhone well jailbreak and you have it.
Now some will say you can't do anything without jailbraking an iphone. Well without Hard spl you are also kind of sucked on WM.
Android has already several updates and can't be run by all older devices.
WM also have a few updates but a wizard that is quite an old device can run WM 6.5.
Ok so WP7 looks pretty cool and all but can I use it with my Mac? Will there be tie in software for the Mac like there is iTunes on Windows machines? From what I understand there will be tie-in software on Windows kind of like the Zune software but what about on the Mac?
haven't seen anything about Zune Mac edition. But as I understand it, syncing to a PC isn't mandatory. The phone is standalone. Syncing to a PC is just an enhancement.
Yeah but still if there are things that I can't do because I don't have a PC like... PUT MUSIC ON IT... then I won't be getting one until this is addressed. See what I'm saying?
If all else fails, just use Parallels or Boot Camp
I know that's always an option it's just that I don't think I should have to virtualize an OS to use a device. Apple makes software for windows to use their devices, albeit not coded nearly as well as the mac version but at least it's there. So I figure MS should take that initiative as well.
itpromike said:
I know that's always an option it's just that I don't think I should have to virtualize an OS to use a device. Apple makes software for windows to use their devices, albeit not coded nearly as well as the mac version but at least it's there. So I figure MS should take that initiative as well.
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It's true, Zune should have a Mac version. My guess is they may be rewriting it in Silverlight to actually do this, since that would be the simplest way to keep it cross-platform compatible.
itpromike said:
I know that's always an option it's just that I don't think I should have to virtualize an OS to use a device. Apple makes software for windows to use their devices, albeit not coded nearly as well as the mac version but at least it's there. So I figure MS should take that initiative as well.
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Lets be honest here, knowing Apple if they could get away with not writing software for Windows they probably would. The only reason they do is because 95% of the worlds computers run Windows.
lordcanti86 said:
Lets be honest here, knowing Apple if they could get away with not writing software for Windows they probably would. The only reason they do is because 95% of the worlds computers run Windows.
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You say that Apple wouldn't if they could get away with it... but they could get away with it. The share of windows computers that actually use iTunes is VERY VERY small. Not enough to even make an ROI on it's own. Ironically you claim they probably wouldn't even though of the two companies, they are the only ones that do... so I think you statement that's routed in desire should be directed at MS... MS seems to be the ones that don't want to write cross platform software for their mobile devices... This will indeed be to their detriment.
Unless Microsoft is going to utilize TheMissingSync like they did for Kin, no you will not be able to sync WP7 with a Mac. WP7 can be used alone except for media syncing.
itpromike said:
You say that Apple wouldn't if they could get away with it... but they could get away with it. The share of windows computers that actually use iTunes is VERY VERY small. Not enough to even make an ROI on it's own. Ironically you claim they probably wouldn't even though of the two companies, they are the only ones that do... so I think you statement that's routed in desire should be directed at MS... MS seems to be the ones that don't want to write cross platform software for their mobile devices... This will indeed be to their detriment.
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Click to collapse
The share of windows computers that use iTunes is likely small but the share of iTunes users that are on windows is probably very high. There's WAAAAYYYYYY more iPods, iPhones, etc than there are OSX users. Typically they sell ~3mil computers in a quarter as compared to 10mil iPods and 8mil iPhones. There's no way that math can add up to mean that more iTunes users are on OSX than Windows.
I would love for nothing more than Microsoft to port the Zune app to OSX because Zune is way better than iTunes. However, I just don't see them doing it anytime soon. Most OSX users are very much Apple fans. In addition, the Zune client is written using the Iris framework which utilizes a lot of Windows features and is rather Windows-centric. It would have to be a complete rewrite and not just a simple port.
And to the person that suggest SilverLight, not gonna work. SilverLight is way to limited and strict to write something that needs to talk to hardware and the system's file system.
If Microsoft really wants to show up in the game and be ready to fight to get their mobile share back then they need to come prepared to play ball with any team... that simple. It's not rocket science... If Zune needs a rewrite, then so be it. You think iTunes was a direct port? Under the hood, iTunes for OS X and for Windows are quite different, albeit the Windows version does suck to high heaven lol but at least it's there and available. I'd love to get a Windows Phone 7 device as I've owned other Windows Mobile devices and this one seems like the first one that I won't want to take back within the first day of having it. However I am not going to purchase if I'm forced to purchase a copy of Windows and virtualize a Windows OS for the sole purpose of using the phone.
itpromike said:
Ok so WP7 looks pretty cool and all but can I use it with my Mac? Will there be tie in software for the Mac like there is iTunes on Windows machines? From what I understand there will be tie-in software on Windows kind of like the Zune software but what about on the Mac?
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I don't think it's that important because Mac users will tend to want iPhones.
But if you know how to user computers, I wouldn't get a phone (iphone, windows phone 7) that requires special sync software to copy files.
That argument doesn't make much sense unless you don't know many Mac users. If that's the case then I think your perception is skewed... the Mac users I know (I know several hundred as I work in a mixed Mac/Win environment) will use whatever works well. Your argument is like saying Windows users will prefer WinMo when in actuality I know A LOT of Windows users who can't stand WinMo and use iPhones or Androids. Also I think the opposite from in regards to that I know how to use computers (I manage a very large infrastructure project for the government) and I don't care about the data copying method, I just want the device to work as it should, as promised, and do what I need it to. So far iPhone does that and it appears WP7 will too...
Here's a glimmer of hope for you.
Zune on OSX?
itpromike said:
You say that Apple wouldn't if they could get away with it... but they could get away with it. The share of windows computers that actually use iTunes is VERY VERY small. Not enough to even make an ROI on it's own. Ironically you claim they probably wouldn't even though of the two companies, they are the only ones that do... so I think you statement that's routed in desire should be directed at MS... MS seems to be the ones that don't want to write cross platform software for their mobile devices... This will indeed be to their detriment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What a load of rubish they if they wanted to make a ROI they had to write itunes for windows - probably why there is no linux itunes for linux even though it would be an easier port.
Do you really think there are more idevices connected to macs because the figures dont add up?
www .appleinsider.com/articles/07/06/12/apple_serving_up_1_million_copies_of_itunes_each_day.html
Apple Inc.'s iTunes digital jukebox software is downloaded 1 million times per day and has an active user base of 500 million users, the company said during annual developers conference on Monday.
aaplinvestors.net/stats/mac-installed-base
The last two years alone the number of users of OS X has tripled from 25 million to about 75 million, thanks to the iPhone and iPod touch. The last two years alone the number of users of OS X has tripled from 25 million to about 75 million, thanks to the iPhone and iPod touch.
I did some searching, and for those who are looking for a Mac OS sync with WP7, this is kind of hitting the mark: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/apps/mac-connector.aspx
you can get phone software updates and move media.
Syncmate might work; it does with my Tilt running WM6.1 and WM6.5--even using the USB cable. www.sync-mac.com
Nice work reviving a year old thread .
Search for Windows Phone Connector in your iMAC App Store....
I have Zune on a Win Vista laptop, but iMAC is main machine, so I may actually start using this instead.
I have a Mac and I generally use Windows Phone Connector quite a bit if I have to. I usually just run Parallels Desktop though and use Zune as it's much easier to manage files and you can actually pick specific songs that you want to load onto your device. WPC only lets you sync albums and artists.
Windows phone 7 connector is alright when you need to sync media but to when updating your phone it lacks that feature. Though I don't mind booting into boot camp.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
The WP7 connector beta when it was first released for osx was actually pretty handy. Would sync your iTunes music to your WP7 normally and quickly, but would also sync any music bought on the device from Zune store back into iTunes when it was connected again, as well as any new music from iTunes bought in the meantime away from your device. Kept your music collection nice and tidy and everything synced.
Then one day it all just stopped working with a message popping up you had to download the new version from the apple store. Low and behold the new "improved" version lacked the cross device syncing, making it all pretty pointless really.
Today at my University we had a marquee out the front near the main car park talking about Microsoft Graduates and inside they were showing of Microsoft Surface, Kinect and Windows Phone 7.
It wasn't hard to get a glance, especially considering everyone was mostly interested in the Kinect, I had a play with the Windows Phone 7 handset.
To be honest, I was expecting more, I was really disappointed, there is nothing that it can offer except for flashy transitions and pretty colours. Yes its true that applications will be released to improve the phone's functionality but there is definitely a limit to that because of the current API.
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users.
Does anyone know how WP7 handles notifications? Is it similar to iOS? I hope not. Android nailed it with their notification system, I wish Windows Mobile had something similar.
The menu in which you 'upload to facebook', is it limited? Can developers add functionality to this menu, will you ever see 'post on twitter' or anything like that?
On a positive note, WP7 is smooth, looks great and Internet Explorer is a whole new browser.
(Side note: University of Surrey is broadcasting the Microsoft PDC10 live on Thursday this week and one lucky attendee will win a WP7 Handset)
WP7 notifications are kinda a cross between Android and iPhone. The biggest downside to WP7 notifications is that once it goes away, you can't see it in a list or anything.
Re: "WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users." - I don't think Microsoft has any intention on every going after the "hardcore WM5/6 users." If you're expecting WM6 levels of customizability and openness, switch to Android.
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
AceofSpades25 said:
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
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Click to collapse
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
RustyGrom said:
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
AceofSpades25 said:
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
RustyGrom said:
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
Nah it's pretty much awesome
I also used WP7 the first time today - and it's AWESOME!!!
Don't listen to this guy (no offense )
I think everyone here saw the videos of Walkthroughs etc, so I don't know how you can get disappointed by using it.
It's exactly what you saw, just quadrippel times more awesome, cause you actually see it for real and touch it yourself
A Vodafone store had a LG Optimus 7 and I played with it for half an hour.
I just can't wait till the Omnia 7 finally arrives here in Germany. I'll definitly buy that and hopefully be happy with it
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
gmatharu12 said:
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, each application has its own restricted space. The only exception to this rule are images and videos (I think).
I know all your images are kept in one common place, and apps can use a hook they've provided in the api to load images from this place.
Any other app you can think of that would require side loading of files, would not work.
AceofSpades25 said:
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would encourage both sloppy app development and content piracy.
Are YOU a developer?
A platform that indirectly encourages piracy doesn't get first-class support from the industry. Only exception is Windows Mobile, and only because it is compatible with the DRM in e.g. Zune Pass music.
Looks lile so,e people don't take piracy serious enough. It's a huge problem, amd a few users crying about design decisions aided to combat it in a forum are pretty much worth doing it.
Lime Wire was just shut down by a court. The media industry does not play around, and neither does the law.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
What a HUGE disappointment for a UI
Ok, so panes slide around. SO WHAT? The thing as I have seen it in videos looks like a PIECE OF JUNK. Just look at the picture of mine... How can you compare that or any of our WM6.5 phones on this forum to a BLAH screen that has three cubes on it? YECH. Is this is the way they leave it, I think that will be the end of WM. Just wait another year and there will be so few buyers of the WM7 phones they will be discontinued.
gmatharu12 said:
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Click to collapse
Lol exactly
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Click to collapse
Oh yeah?! So try to copy internet link and send it to your friend by sms.
Retard.
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels. I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used. Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
The shiny will wear off soon enough.
Both have their place, but WM is a bit more flexible and more universally useful ATM, especially an HTC Sense WM device like the HD2.
IMO.
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
deadwrong03 said:
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you need to remember one thing, Microsoft has upgraded WM 6.5 though several years. So what do you expect on the OS that has just been published for about few months?
Now is time for Microsoft to listen to their user and consider about it. Mango Update look quite bright to me...
Purple11 said:
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
Purple11 said:
I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Purple11 said:
Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Purple11 said:
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
Purple11 said:
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
Purple11 said:
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Purple11 said:
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
Purple11 said:
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. Try show it an iphone, it'll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
Purple11 said:
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
hungry81 said:
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. try show it an iphone itll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha it was fun to read.
Purple11 said:
...but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... I saw YouTube vids on the first looks at WP7 and thought it looked dull and boring, but after flashing my HD2, the phone is now slick, smooth, alive... I notice everything I do is quicker...
I show my iGroan and Haemorrhoid mates the bing search, pizza, pick a store, get directions... Blows them away!
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
And you can't say that's only because the system is new, because as I read in this forum, WP7 is based on windows CE like WM, so nothing revolutionary.
you absolutely can't give props to the marketplace!
With my WM, I go to the internet site or eMule and download every App I need, without having problems to find them with very much good freeware.
With the Marketplace, almost every App has a price, maybe little, but I don't like to pay for something that in the previous platform was for free.
So why does WP7 fail in almost every aspect??? I'm shure, its because they want to stop piracy, so they quit almost every bridge to it (I can't find any other explanation).
No filesystem, no registry editor, no custom setups and even no flash in IE.
Now the biggest question: why do I own a WP7???? The answer is, because Iphone is to expensive and It sucks even more, Blackberry and nokia are not made for such multimedia, and Android, its more like a fashion, maybe its here today but not tomorrow, and WM 6,5 is no longer supported by new apps.
I hope, WP7 will start to live, will get better, and more user-friendly with better Apps support, downloadable directly from the internet site.
My biggest fear, is that what happened to WM, will happen to our main computer, in Windows 8
XxAndrexX said:
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
nicksti said:
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey man you got me wrong. Read accurately.
Microsoft HAD to move to that "innovating" platform, but without quitting the old one.
giving some kind of connection to the old windows mobile options.
So everyone would be happy, the new bunch of stupid IOS-cloned users, and the old freaky nerds
but I'm shure, its for some anti-piracy reason...
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
doministry said:
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
argentocruz said:
.. Blows them away!
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Click to collapse
My WP totally blows all my Iphone and Android users.. they are like 'WTF!!?? This is so nice.:
Lol at this thread... OP, you're entirely right, and it is a wonderful OS. It can only improve from here.
And at the usual people I won't even call by name... Go get some sun on your skins.
The King has no clothes on, http://tinyurl.com/687omad
I sold my WP7 for £300 poor poor beta OS, dual booting my HD2, WM6.5 and Android Gingerbread best of both worlds.
rhory said:
I sold my WP7 for £300
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
man, you are a lucky guy........or have you LOST 300????
XxAndrexX said:
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Android supports folders.
Purple11 said:
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
doministry said:
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is little if any innovation in WP7. People Hub as already done in TouchWiz. All of the Social integration is pretty much same ole same ole. Apple already had GameCenter. Apple has iPod (i.e. Zune) and you could get All-You-Can-Eat music from services like Rhapsody on other platforms.
Office isn't innovative because ThinkFree and other apps have comparable functionality and integration in other platforms. Also, Office has been in Windows Mobile since 2002 or so... The functionality of Outlook/Office going from WM to WP7 has actually been downgraded quite a lot. For example, WP7 doesn't support Exchange Tasks and the calendar is, IMO, worse...
Nothing great about Push Notifications which are worse and more volatile than any other platform that offers them.
Tiles and Live Tiles are just Widgets with a different look and feel.
Microsoft didn't really innovate any much moving from WM to WP7, and the base OS is still Windows CE. They used Silverlight as a way to decouple the UX from the base OS, but they released it before it was finished (hence why there are 1.5k APIs keeping apps off the platform coming with Mango).
How well WP7 does depends solely on how Android and iOS develop going into the future.
Nokia will help MS but Google has way more manufacturers and Apple will continue to do well building their own handset. Also, with Nokia somewhat abandoning Symbian a lot of their users will jump to Android because WP7 does not have functionality on par with BB/WM/Symbian to allow them to migrade decently form Symbian to WP7. Nokia cannot do that without reworking a bit of the OS and I doubt Microsoft will want them to diverge so far from the reference implementation.
I think in 2010 they lost bigtime because they didn't live up to the hype. The carriers still have as much control over WP7 as they do with Android, and their update system is still only on par with Android and much worse than iOS. In addition, the launch hardware is rather poor and with the i5 coming out soon after Mango, and Android Manufacturers pushing the button (not to mention Google making some pretty good changes in their OS latesly - free Voice/Video Chat in Google Talk?! We don't even have a WLM and it's not slated to even come with Mango!) it will be hard for them to persuade switches. In addition to that, the pitiful state of RTM WP7 has already made them a laughing stock on many tech blogs and among users. They should have waited, IMO.
People who have Android phones won't tell their friends to get WP7 devices because of Google Talk/Services. People with iOS devices will likely push that. People with Blackberries will recommend Blackberries because of BBM, etc. People with WP7 devices are generally on the fence and many are lamenting the purchase. The OS is so functionally thin, and even will still be compared to iOS/Android with Mango, that it's really hard to enjoy it. Android Manufacturers are already getting better with Updates (Samsung leading the pack, suprisingly), so that is already no longer a reason to go with WP7...
A good smartphone will not make you feel like you are hampered because you upgraded from a different OS, and a good smartphone will not force you to double fist two smartphones because it's lacking in so much functionality as to be unusable without a different device to fill in the gaps.
WM had usability issues, but it was a complete smartphone OS.
And BTW, it had nothing to do with it having a decade of development. Even from day one it was never possible to call WM functionally thin compared to anything on the market (Symbian, Blackberry, Palm, etc.). The actual phones/devices running it was a different story.
And as a business user WP7 is practically useless. It isn't even worth consideration. I'd get a Blackberry or Symbian Anna device, instead...
Source
Research from Kantar WorldPanel on Tuesday showed Android gaining share strongly in most of seven major markets - Australia, Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and the United States - in the 12 weeks to mid April.
...
Windows' share in Germany more than doubled to 6 percent over the past year, and climbed to 3-4 percent in Britain, France, Italy and the United States.
These gains came at the expense of Nokia's Symbian platform and Canadian BlackBerry maker Research In Motion, the biggest market share losers. RIM's share in the U.S. market dropped to just 3 percent from 9 percent a year earlier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We do not know if that is all Windows platforms, or only Windows Phone. Previous share numbers put Windows phone at 2% so maybe that is only Windows Phone. But no matter how you spin it, Nokia has made some kind of impact with the Lumia series. And the Germany numbers would not include the Lumia 900 either.
Windows Phone is gaining momentum! One day, sometime in the future, the forum will no longer have to be ridiculed for poor sales numbers. I wonder what will be the next reason why not to own a Windows Phone?
nicksti said:
Windows Phone is gaining momentum! One day, sometime in the future, the forum will no longer have to be ridiculed for poor sales numbers. I wonder what will be the next reason why not to own a Windows Phone?
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Itz no open source, evil! It can't play Crash Bandicoot!1
And more.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Itz no open source, evil!
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Click to collapse
So is iPhone.
I'm not trying to be illogical, But the experience I have with my window phone (Mozart 7) is far better than what I had with any Android phone.
Although Windows Phone still has a long way to go (mainly apps in marketplace are not comparable to Apple/Android market figures) But I think WP will be a real competitor for iPhone/Android in near future.
Kamyar.P said:
So is iPhone.
I'm not trying to be illogical, But the experience I have with my window phone (Mozart 7) is far better than what I had with any Android phone.
Although Windows Phone still has a long way to go (mainly apps in marketplace are not comparable to Apple/Android market figures) But I think WP will be a real competitor for iPhone/Android in near future.
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I think he was sarcastic.
No normal user should care about opensourceness.
Most of the programs I like more are closed source.
dragonide said:
I think he was sarcastic.
No normal user should care about opensourceness.
Most of the programs I like more are closed source.
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Click to collapse
That's it, sarcasm that is also, most people don't know that Android isn't really open source: you can't access the repositories on which gdevs are working. Also, nobody ever gives a crap about bug reports/feature requests, and most issue are left pending and unaddressed. The AOSP project is ran in a not so opened source after all: the code shared is generally partial and you have no access whatsoever to what is actually worked on. Chrome, for example, is instead an open source project, and is actually ran as such. Too bad it sucks because it's a resource whore, despite being probably the fastest guy in town. However I agree, most of my favourite programs are closed source too. Woops, this is very off topic btw
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
nicksti said:
Source
We do not know if that is all Windows platforms, or only Windows Phone. Previous share numbers put Windows phone at 2% so maybe that is only Windows Phone. But no matter how you spin it, Nokia has made some kind of impact with the Lumia series. And the Germany numbers would not include the Lumia 900 either.
Windows Phone is gaining momentum! One day, sometime in the future, the forum will no longer have to be ridiculed for poor sales numbers. I wonder what will be the next reason why not to own a Windows Phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting stuff in the comments from your link:
(Reuters) – Nokia launched two low-end cellphones on Tuesday, aiming to regain its footing in emerging markets.
Operating system: Symbian Series 40
Windows Phone market share is so tiny, Nielsen doesn’t even list it “The bad news for Windows Phone market share continues: In a recent report, Windows Phone market share was so small in the U.S. that the well-known research firm Nielsen didn’t even bother to break out its usage,” Preston Gralla reports for Computerworld. (Friday, March 30, 2012)
Could Linux still usurp Windows Phone as Nokia’s saviour?
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/eu...ill-usurp-windows-phone-as-nokias-saviour/560
Elsop told a group of engineers in Berlin last year that the goal is once again to “find that next big thing that blows away Apple, Android, and everything we’re doing with Microsoft right now, and makes it irrelevant – all of it. So go for it, without having to worry about saving Nokia’s rear end in the next 12 months. I’ve taken off the handcuffs.” The product in development is known as Meltemi, a Linux-based OS, which was referenced in a memo leaked to the The Wall Street Journal last year.
Honestly I don't even care that much about WP7 anymore...I mean (don't get me wrong) I don't want it to die because I really like it and it's the perfect fit for me now. What really matters to me now tho is that with this Lumia phone I'm in love with Nokia back again. I don't even care about apps anymore, as far as I have a functional phone with a good browser and a twitter client I'm more than fine. If Nokia keeps making WP devices with Lumia like quality and above then good, I'll buy them, if Nokia starts making N9 like Linux based devices I'll buy them as well, maybe I'd like them even more. Just gimme Nokia phones please, I'm hooked. Hopefully I'm not the only one...
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
We can only hope that more people come to understand the ease of use of wp, the message will spread more quickly.
Window Phones just overtakes iPhone marketshare in China.
http://www.gsmarena.com/wp_reportedly_overtakes_iphone_in_china_with_7_of_market-news-4268.php
I see a lot more people with windows phones these days than I did before Nokia released their windows phone.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Hey guys, just came here as I've been using an LG Optimus 7 for about a week now. Now I don't want to get into any arguments, I just want to share my thoughts.
I personally am not a fan of WP7 (actually that's a massive understatement). I have no doubt that for some users it's just fine, but not me. I'm an Android user and the reason I'm using this phone right now is because I'm in between phones and this is a work phone.
For me, there are too many UI and UX idiosyncrasies for me to be able to like WP7. The tiles are an interesting approach, but on a small screen device it fails. It feels very claustrophobic for me; as if you're looking at a large sheet of paper but only have a small window to look through.
The lock screen leaves something to be desired also. I'm disappointed that a pin password is the only way to password protect your phone. I miss pattern unlock.
The keyboard, while good at autocorrect, cannot compare to Swype, which I also miss dearly. I absolutely loath tapping on a virtual keyboard now that I've been using Swype for over a year.
Please take no offence to this but if I had to describe WP7 it would be a very advanced feature phone, or a very simple smartphone. And by "simple" I don't mean easy to use, I mean limited functionality. Random example: In the browser, when I find a phone number online, I cannot just click on it and choose to automatically call it like on Android. Furthermore, I cannot even copy the text on the website and paste it into the dialing app like on Android. So I'm forced to either memorize the number or jot it down on a piece of paper and then recite it in the dialing app. Not very "smartphone-ish". People talk about how Android is only for "advanced users" but in all seriousness Android does most of, if not all, the simple things much more intuitively than any other device (IMO).
If I had to say one thing that my WP7 device did well, was Bluetooth connection and syncing with my F150's radio. But then again, that's a Microsoft Sync product, so I would expect no less. Edit: Oh, and voice commands. It actually does voice commands fairly nicely without any extra software.
But I would like to hear from everyone else, explicitly what they like about WP7 over iPhone or Android (we're not including Blackberry, why bother.).
cbstryker said:
I personally am not a fan of WP7 (actually that's a massive understatement).
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cbstryker said:
I'm an Android user...
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I'm curious. I don't go over the the Andriod forums since I'm exclusively a Windows Phone user at the moment. Do you guys have a lot of Windows Phone users coming over there and thread crapping?
cbstryker said:
For me, there are too many UI and UX idiosyncrasies for me to be able to like WP7.
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Click to collapse
That's why there are multiple OS. It is impossible to make an OS that EVERYONE will love. Most people who sit down and look at all the major OS interfaces agree that the Windows Phone interface is clean and easy to read compared to others.
cbstryker said:
The tiles are an interesting approach, but on a small screen device it fails.
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If you feel constricted buy a bigger screen. Windows Phone devices come in a variety of sizes. There is even rumored to be a Galaxy Note in the works.
cbstryker said:
I'm disappointed that a pin password is the only way to password protect your phone. I miss pattern unlock.
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Click to collapse
Billions of people have lived just fine with pin unlock. Furthermore I see no reason why a future iteration of Windows Phone wouldn't have pattern unlock. A whole new OS is about to drop in <1 year. At this stage there is no way of knowing what Windows Phone will and will not have in 6-8 months.
cbstryker said:
Please take no offence...
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Click to collapse
No one is offended we are just curios why seemingly happy Andriod users feel the need to continual thread crap in our forum. I have never had any need to post in an Andriod forum. Do you get the feeling one of us is insecure?
cbstryker said:
Please take no offence to this but if I had to describe WP7 it would be a very advanced feature phone, or a very simple smartphone. And by "simple" I don't mean easy to use, I mean limited functionality. Random example: In the browser, when I find a phone number online, I cannot just click on it and choose to automatically call it like on Android. Furthermore, I cannot even copy the text on the website and paste it into the dialing app like on Android. So I'm forced to either memorize the number or jot it down on a piece of paper and then recite it in the dialing app. Not very "smartphone-ish". People talk about how Android is only for "advanced users" but in all seriousness Android does most of, if not all, the simple things much more intuitively than any other device (IMO).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Phone is a newer operating system and functionality is being added incrementally. A whole new OS is going to drop in <1 yr. Your post is going to look silly in a matter of months. I like the Windows Phone OS. I like the hardware. I like the fact that my Lumia 900 works smoothly out of the box with no tweaks. I don't have to brag about how many cores it has because it doesn't matter. When I see an Andriod phone with twice the number of cores doing its stutter and lag routine I don't feel bad for the owner.
sitizenx said:
I'm curious. I don't go over the the Andriod forums since I'm exclusively a Windows Phone user at the moment. Do you guys have a lot of Windows Phone users coming over there and thread crapping?
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I can't speak for other users out there. Frankly, they just sound like trolls. That's not at all what I'm doing here. I have genuinely been using a Windows Phone exclusively for a week and I wanted to dig in to some of the forums to see what kind of tweaks or hints I can find, and then I found this thread. So I'm not just a random Android Fanboy coming here to "thread crap".
sitizenx said:
I like the fact that my Lumia 900 works smoothly out of the box with no tweaks. I don't have to brag about how many cores it has because it doesn't matter. When I see an Andriod phone with twice the number of cores doing its stutter and lag routine I don't feel bad for the owner.
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Click to collapse
My Android phone (the one being repaired) has only a single core and is smooth as butter. This whole "my phone is smoother than yours" flack is nothing but non-sense. This phone I've been using has lagged on me plenty of times and I've even had plenty of iPhones lag on me also. Pointless argument.
Edit: This guy is exactly the type of person I was trying to avoid. All I wanted was the opinions of WP7 enthusiasts as to why they like their platform of choice. Not some 15 year old that can only resort to verbal attacks.
cbstryker said:
I can't speak for other users out there. Frankly, they just sound like trolls. That's not at all what I'm doing here. I have genuinely been using a Windows Phone exclusively for a week...
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By your own admission you are an android user that is only temporarily using a work phone for a few days and not by choice. Not sure how that makes you any different from all the other Andriod users that have dropped by to say hi.
cbstryker said:
My Android phone (the one being repaired) has only a single core and is smooth as butter.
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Click to collapse
The whole "core" thing was me just making fun of the Andriod conversations I've accidentally stumble across. This forum is littered with them. Windows Phone just takes a different approach to the whole smartphone thing in a number of ways. I wouldn't expect a committed Android user to pick up on the differences let alone appreciate them in a handful of days especially if he was involuntarily forced to use Windows Phone.
cbstryker said:
Wow, dude. Just wow....
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We could say the same thing about you. How many Andriod vs Windows Phone threads have to be locked by the mods before Andriod users get the message?
cbstryker said:
Edit: This guy is exactly the type of person I was trying to avoid...
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Click to collapse
A Windows Phone 7 forum is an odd place to hide out from Windows Phone users.
Bottom line, A whole new OS is going to drop in <1yr. You have just wasted your time and our time critiquing a bunch of issues that may very well be moot in a matter of months. Unlike you we didn't have our Windows Phones forced on us for a few days. We made a conscious decision after evaluating our options to buy the phone we felt would best suit our needs for the next 2 years.
I don't like Andriod and I don't like iOS. But I don't go to those forums and start telling everyone who owns the phone my opinion. A lot of the decision regarding what phone someone ultimately ends up using is subjective. All OSes have pros and cons. I could easily cherry pick a few pros and cons and post over in the Andriod forum. I don't and there is a reason for that.
cbstryker said:
Hey guys, just came here as I've been using an LG Optimus 7 for about a week now. Now I don't want to get into any arguments, I just want to share my thoughts.
I personally am not a fan of WP7 (actually that's a massive understatement). I have no doubt that for some users it's just fine, but not me. I'm an Android user and the reason I'm using this phone right now is because I'm in between phones and this is a work phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And in general there is absolutely no problem with that in the Windows Phone forum.
I can see why Metro UI would not be appealing to everyone. I personally find it to be less attractive than what Android can be with all the custom roms, but more useable than any OS on the market. It is the perfect blend of simplicity and functionality and i have owned an iPhone and owned/used quite a few different Android phones from different OEMs.
Sitizenx is being a little blunt. Well alot blunt But I want to let you know where Sit is coming from:
"Windows Phone is dead"
"Marketshare/Sales are pathetic"
"Apps are missing/inferior/overpriced"
"Hardware is a joke"
It is that last one that is the motivation behind his self-pleasuring retort. Out of curiousity, which single core Android phone did you use that was smooth? Nexus S? i am sure there are smooth droids out there, but there are quite a few that just are not and it is laughable based on the hardware that goes into some of there phones.
But it is quite okay for you to not like Windows Phone. Some of your issues can be resolved, some also apply to the iPhone (swype, pattern unlock).
Btw, that borrowed data parsing feature to recognize emails/numbers and pick the appropriate task is what got HTC banned
This whole bashing on Windows Phone, or iOS or whatever is such a waste of time and energy. I can think of a dozen things off the bat to be more constructive with. We really need to get off this "fanboy" mentality.
To each his/her own. Master your domain and work within it if you enjoy it. Simple.
Just MHO.
cbstryker said:
In the browser, when I find a phone number online, I cannot just click on it and choose to automatically call it like on Android. Furthermore, I cannot even copy the text on the website and paste it into the dialing app like on Android.
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Click to collapse
That's a patent issue. Microsoft is forced to leave this feature out of WP7. You can thank Apple for that.
And why should be a pattern unlock better/safer? I find it easier to memorize a pattern when someone unlocks his phone.
Energata said:
This whole bashing on Windows Phone, or iOS or whatever is such a waste of time and energy. I can think of a dozen things off the bat to be more constructive with. We really need to get off this "fanboy" mentality.
To each his/her own. Master your domain and work within it if you enjoy it. Simple.
Just MHO.
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Click to collapse
For a first timer, you have a mighty good outlook Good to see. Welcome to the forums.
Let's not get too side-tracked in here, quit the baiting, and get back on-topic
cbstryker said:
Hey guys, just came here as I've been using an LG Optimus 7 for about a week now. Now I don't want to get into any arguments, I just want to share my thoughts.
Please take no offence to this but if I had to describe WP7 it would be a very advanced feature phone, or a very simple smartphone. And by "simple" I don't mean easy to use, I mean limited functionality. Random example: In the browser, when I find a phone number online, I cannot just click on it and choose to automatically call it like on Android. Furthermore, I cannot even copy the text on the website and paste it into the dialing app like on Android. So I'm forced to either memorize the number or jot it down on a piece of paper and then recite it in the dialing app. Not very "smartphone-ish". People talk about how Android is only for "advanced users" but in all seriousness Android does most of, if not all, the simple things much more intuitively than any other device (IMO).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just with reference to your example there... that is not a limitation of Windows Phone... that's a limitation in the default settings for Canada specifically. I'm in Canada with a Samsung Focus (also on Telus) and I can click on phone and street addresses in the web browser to have them open in the dialer or map program on Windows Phone. You just have to go into "Settings/Region+Language" and set your "Region format" to "English (United States)". You should then have clickable links for telephone numbers and street addresses. While you're there, change your "Browser and search language" to "English (United States)" to enable local scout in Canada.
The limitation on copy/pasting a number into the dialer is a legitimate gripe - copying the number is easy, but there is no paste option from the dialer.
cbstryker said:
Hey guys, just came here as I've been using an LG Optimus 7 for about a week now. Now I don't want to get into any arguments, I just want to share my thoughts.
I personally am not a fan of WP7 (actually that's a massive understatement). I have no doubt that for some users it's just fine, but not me. I'm an Android user and the reason I'm using this phone right now is because I'm in between phones and this is a work phone.
For me, there are too many UI and UX idiosyncrasies for me to be able to like WP7. The tiles are an interesting approach, but on a small screen device it fails. It feels very claustrophobic for me; as if you're looking at a large sheet of paper but only have a small window to look through.
The lock screen leaves something to be desired also. I'm disappointed that a pin password is the only way to password protect your phone. I miss pattern unlock.
The keyboard, while good at autocorrect, cannot compare to Swype, which I also miss dearly. I absolutely loath tapping on a virtual keyboard now that I've been using Swype for over a year.
Please take no offence to this but if I had to describe WP7 it would be a very advanced feature phone, or a very simple smartphone. And by "simple" I don't mean easy to use, I mean limited functionality. Random example: In the browser, when I find a phone number online, I cannot just click on it and choose to automatically call it like on Android. Furthermore, I cannot even copy the text on the website and paste it into the dialing app like on Android. So I'm forced to either memorize the number or jot it down on a piece of paper and then recite it in the dialing app. Not very "smartphone-ish". People talk about how Android is only for "advanced users" but in all seriousness Android does most of, if not all, the simple things much more intuitively than any other device (IMO).
If I had to say one thing that my WP7 device did well, was Bluetooth connection and syncing with my F150's radio. But then again, that's a Microsoft Sync product, so I would expect no less. Edit: Oh, and voice commands. It actually does voice commands fairly nicely without any extra software.
But I would like to hear from everyone else, explicitly what they like about WP7 over iPhone or Android (we're not including Blackberry, why bother.).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The simple ui, the difference of the ui, and the huge microsoft stamp on it. its lacking in hardware and app developement, but apparently folks just accept the shortcomings, or don't care.
Id imagine working the price of a phone into a ford vehicle wouldn't be difficult, surprised it hasn't happened yet.
Sitizen's comments revolve around accusations of androidfanism and the future release to be expected. Unfortunately, neither are relevant today.
The sales information is interesting though. Apparently china likes it, or there is some promotion prompting sales with very cheap devices, dunno, I don't live there.
I'm still not seeing any wp7 devices around town, bars, etc. I've never seen one in a motorcycling buddies hand. Those are alllll iphones or the latest android, for the obvious mapping and navigation reasons.