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Hi guys
I think we all would be pleased to have cyanogenmod (or something else) on our defys which isn't possible because of the locked bootloader. So we need either the key or an update that removes this signing stuff.
My question is simple... has anyone ever tried to contact Motorola about that? Sure it would be naive to think we can get the key but the chances for an update should be higher than... well higher than nothing
I would do it myself but I don't think my english is good enough for this.
In this day and age of technology the best exploits are still social
Well if everyone here in the defy forums agree including me they should sign this.
Why did they lock the bootloader in the first place?
A customizable smartphone would sell much better than a locked one !
spamnco said:
Why did they lock the bootloader in the first place?
A customizable smartphone would sell much better than a locked one !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People who customise/tweak their handsets to the degree of wanting to flash custom ROMs are in the minority.
Sure, an unlocked bootloader might marginally increase sales for Motorola but probably not enough to make any significant difference - after all, we all bought one in spite of the bootloader...
Step666 said:
People who customise/tweak their handsets to the degree of wanting to flash custom ROMs are in the minority.
Sure, an unlocked bootloader might marginally increase sales for Motorola but probably not enough to make any significant difference - after all, we all bought one in spite of the bootloader...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are probably right but making this customisation easier would make this minority bigger. Many people chose Android smartphones because of the way you can change things on your phone. Remember Firefox which was the first customisable web browser at a time no one even thought it would be possible and look where they are now!
The Defy is rather cheap (the cheapest in its category) and opening it to the geeks (wanabees) would make it a must-have for hundred of thousands of people, possibly millions around the world.
I still have the hope that Moto might change that. Since the Xoom is not locked.
spamnco said:
You are probably right but making this customisation easier would make this minority bigger. Many people chose Android smartphones because of the way you can change things on your phone. Remember Firefox which was the first customisable web browser at a time no one even thought it would be possible and look where they are now!
The Defy is rather cheap (the cheapest in its category) and opening it to the geeks (wanabees) would make it a must-have for hundred of thousands of people, possibly millions around the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but then people would realize the hardware is the same as the droid x and they would not understand the price difference.
I'm not a tech myself but i believe custom roms can be signed just as we can sign a modified apk...then i believe we won't need an unlocked bootloader? some sort of exploit would work
An exploit would be possbile if there was one in the protection mechanism.
But so far we haven't found one.
It's true that the bootloader doesn't need to be unlocked, but we would need the valid signing key which is the topic of this thread. Currently only Motorola has that key.
scarface said:
I still have the hope that Moto might change that. Since the Xoom is not locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cause it's a Honeycomb showcase device.
It's always been the case. Like the original DROID (Eclair) which also has an unlocked bootloader. It's quite clear that Google has gone the length to force Motorola to do it.
For the rest of us, please refer to the above post.
Visit Groubal and sign the petition: http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
Retweet: http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/52265679990169600
Facebook Page: http://www.facebook.com/unlockmoto
UPDATE (14th June 2011):
We are now over the 10,000 mark.
I have now spoken with Motorola and gotten confirmation that Motorola plan to unlock every device that will get an update in the second half of this year. This will include maintenance & firmware updates, but is still subject to Carrier approval.
The promising sign is that Verizon has already allowed Motorola to unlock a device on their network, the Xoom, which utilizes the unlockable/re-lockable model that Motorola intends on using across their devices.
I'm still looking to work with Motorola in the coming months to help see if we can make this a smooth process for Motorola and the community.
You can read the article here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/06/14/an-u...witter&utm_campaign=Feed:+ausdroid+(Ausdroid)
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
UPDATE (26th April 2011):
We are now at ~8,700 mark.
Motorola has now responded to me, stating that they are looking at unlocking bootloaders across their devices late 2011.
The article for the story can be found here:
http://ausdroid.net/2011/04/26/the-little-aussie-taking-on-motorola-u-s/#more-8184
We're still seeking clarity around whether this will be for current devices or only future devices.
I couldn't have gotten this far without the support of everyone here. You guys and girls have been a huge support and help me turn this snowball into a wrecking ball.
Please share this where you can and keep it alive. I will continue to work with Motorola to see if we can get this thing torn wide open.
Previous Update (4th April 2011):
We are now at ~7600 mark.
We're starting to slow down from our initial boom, so I have now set up a Facebook page to see if we can wrangle in some supporters that don't use Twitter or XDA.
I will need your help getting this out there. So share the facebook page where you can.
I'm also looking to see if anyone is interested in helping me Moderate the page. Please PM if you are.
Original Post:
Hi All,
I have created a Groubal (online petition) to get a response from Motorola on it's bootloader policy.
>>This petition started for the Atrix, but I made sure that it was for Motorola's overall Bootloader Policy. I have reached 200 signatures in 2 weeks, but now believe it's time to expand this out of the Atrix space and into the larger Motorola Dev community.
Just signed the petition.
It could be me but non of your links work
How could you sign the petiton dedraks?
spamnco said:
It could be me but non of your links work
How could you sign the petiton dedraks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the heads up on that. I'll be more careful when copying and pasting links.
Let's try this:
http://www.groubal.com/motorola-lockedencrypted-bootloader-policy/
spamnco said:
It could be me but non of your links work
How could you sign the petiton dedraks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use this shor link: http://4by.in/4
Not that it'll make any difference but your petition is more likely to be taken seriously if comments like that of 'rich fraley' weren't included.
Signed, at length...
Step666 said:
Not that it'll make any difference but your petition is more likely to be taken seriously if comments like that of 'rich fraley' weren't included.
Signed, at length...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, agreed. I tried seeing if I could at least censor the comment, but no dice.
Thanks for you're support guys. I've always been a big fan of the saying "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar".
Famous idea. You got the sign.
i have signed
Not to kill the cause... but the issue isnt really with motorola... Isnt it with the service providers who would rather have the bootloaders on the phones locked so they can sell us services we could install for free... ie Wi-fi Calling, Tethering..
I think Motorola's hands are tied.. their customers are the service providers.
Would it make more sense to harass t-mobile and the likes over this?
Signed as well.
ketonkss4 said:
Not to kill the cause... but the issue isnt really with motorola... Isnt it with the service providers who would rather have the bootloaders on the phones locked so they can sell us services we could install for free... ie Wi-fi Calling, Tethering..
I think Motorola's hands are tied.. their customers are the service providers.
Would it make more sense to harass t-mobile and the likes over this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On all phones that have locked and encrypted bootloaders, I don't think there's been one that couldn't be rooted. Once rooted, you have access to all the Tethering and WiFi Calling apps out there. So it could be the case, but all unlocking the bootloader does is let you use custom kernels that form the base of alternative roms. So bloatware be damned, it can removed fairly quickly and without even touching the bootloader.
It would be more for warranty claims, that's why the padlock picture on the very first screen's the way to go. That way if a phone is damaged due to modification, the carrier/manufacturer can turn you away due to voided warranty.
signed the partition to
i am looking into the legal side of the locked bootloader to see if theirs any loop holes in locking a phone when the manufacture is part of the open handset alliance
but i think the fastest way of the bootloader being unencrypted is to put up a cash reward for the person that unlocks it.
maybe if we can raise £1000 it might spur someone on to go the extra mile
ketonkss4 said:
Not to kill the cause... but the issue isnt really with motorola... Isnt it with the service providers who would rather have the bootloaders on the phones locked so they can sell us services we could install for free... ie Wi-fi Calling, Tethering..
I think Motorola's hands are tied.. their customers are the service providers.
Would it make more sense to harass t-mobile and the likes over this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So why is my unlocked/un-branded Defy that is in no way tied to any network also cursed with a locked bootloader?
And if the networks are demanding it, how come not every manufacturer is crippling their handsets in this way?
This is a decision Motorola have made, no-one else.
#UnlockMoto
Thanks :-D
You can also join the #UnlockMoto campain and spread the word on social media networks like Twitter as well as on modding forums and such.
Start by joining the #UnlockMoto Campain for Motorola Unlocked Bootloaders! here: http://twb.ly/UnlockMoto.
Then read: http://bit.ly/UnlockMotoPage
done, signed
signed!!!
Just signed.
adlx.xda said:
Thanks :-D
You can also join the #UnlockMoto campain and spread the word on social media networks like Twitter as well as on modding forums and such.
Start by joining the #UnlockMoto Campain for Motorola Unlocked Bootloaders! here: http://twb.ly/UnlockMoto.
Then read: http://bit.ly/UnlockMotoPage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for posting dude, i've been sending out a tweet for the 2 causes.
Retweet:
http://twitter.com/#!/ibproud/status/50306686350655488
I have read at least 50 disinformation type posts on this site about unlocking a branded Xperia (Verizion in my case) they all seem to be wanting me to pay money to Alejandrissimo or Jinx13 but when I click on those hyperlinks they are all "Invalid post" so what am I supposed to be finding here that I missed?
There is not any topic stickied that is describing how to unlock the thing & every article / forum post / google search I find is another disinformation post with no real evidence.
I know how to flash ROM's onto android using recovery loaders.
I know how to access the program menu's in various phones
I know what the CDMA spectrum is.
I'm not some newb making this post because I need my hand held step by step to do something.
I just need some real information
If anyone has a link to a real method or anything helpful please let me know
I have researched (and watched the welcome video) on this site to find an answer and I haven't found anything.
Thanks
-Jon
Ok, so the links to the unlockers in my thread are broken. Does it mean that my post has "disinformation"? Is there any other way to unlock the bootloaders? No to both, as far as I know. I'll try to fix the links, but seriously...
About why my post (or any other helpful resource about the matter) is not stickied, I don't know nor do I care. No one reads stickies anyway.
Logseman said:
Ok, so the links to the unlockers in my thread are broken. Does it mean that my post has "disinformation"? Is there any other way to unlock the bootloaders? No to both, as far as I know. I'll try to fix the links, but seriously...
About why my post (or any other helpful resource about the matter) is not stickied, I don't know nor do I care. No one reads stickies anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By disinformation it would seem that some exists.
droid-life reported 4 months ago ashergray(XDA) found a method to unlock the bootloader.
Why none of the methods being released or talked about is beyond me.
Also I'm confused why the method is being charged for by others but not officially it would seem.
You have to pm users on the forum to arrange a sale. Why does a topic not exist for this purpose?
All this confusing data is leading to a big headache right now. I was hoping for answers and all I find is rabbit holes on this elusive topic.
Thanks for the reply tho.
Ashergray's method was dried out (it exploited a flaw, and the flaw was fixed).I mention ashergray in the thread, as it is only fitting, in the thanks part.
About why they ask to be contacted privately or publicly, it's their business... Is there something that should be cleared in my thread, aside of the links of course? I mean, I can try to rebuild the first post if necessary.
Logseman said:
Ashergray's method was dried out (it exploited a flaw, and the flaw was fixed).I mention ashergray in the thread, as it is only fitting, in the thanks part.
About why they ask to be contacted privately or publicly, it's their business... Is there something that should be cleared in my thread, aside of the links of course? I mean, I can try to rebuild the first post if necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could start off by explaining why in 7 months time the boot loader is sill locked.
Or why your links to the unlock threads are dead. Both of them.
Or how I'm supposed to unlock the bootloader if these users can't provide that service any longer.
Also you could mention why Sony. being developer and hacker supportive hasn't assisted in taking Verizon's clutch off the bootloader
It is rather annoying coming from Droid x where the device is locked down with a fuse but yet a wide array of custom roms exist that bypass the locked bootloader and then coming to this phone that appears to have not progressed beyond hello world.
So you tell me where to look for an unlock because I'm fresh out of searches and ideas.
Thanks
-jon
P.s I also wonder if the exploit you speak of was patched. Why not just flash to an earlier rom with the problem still existing.
You could start off by explaining why in 7 months time the boot loader is sill locked.
Or why your links to the unlock threads are dead. Both of them.
Or how I'm supposed to unlock the bootloader if these users can't provide that service any longer.
Also you could mention why Sony. being developer and hacker supportive hasn't assisted in taking Verizon's clutch off the bootloader
It is rather annoying coming from Droid x where the device is locked down with a fuse but yet a wide array of custom roms exist that bypass the locked bootloader and then coming to this phone that appears to have not progressed beyond hello world.
So you tell me where to look for an unlock because I'm fresh out of searches and ideas.
Thanks
-jon
P.s I also wonder if the exploit you speak of was patched. Why not just flash to an earlier rom with the problem still existing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) I kindly would like to ask how I'm supposed to know why the bootloader is locked. It's a corporate decision by carriers and Sony Ericsson in which neither I, nor anyone in this forum, have any input. If I had any hard data about why Sony Ericsson doesn't cooperate in the issue, I'd say it. However, I just don't know why, and I prefer not to speak of what I don't know.
2) It seems that both threads have been wiped out of existence (which I didn't know until right now), and I see that a new site appears in Alejandrissimo's signature (http://unlock-bootloader.com/) where he's promoting his services externally (not only the unlocking, but the TA fix and hard-brick fix too). I'd guess that somebody complained about these people making business inside XDA, but then I question the idea of wiping their threads like... months afterwards. At any rate, don't worry, you still can unlock your bootloader with Alejandrissimo's help.
3) On Droid X the bootloader was bypassed because Motorola wouldn't ever unlock it. The FreeXperia team, who had bypassed older Xperia models' bootloaders, decided against it as they saw the new policy of Sony Ericsson's (unlocking phones which didn't come with carrier subsidy). I could unlock my bootloader from day one, and I'm happy to say I've helped devs here therethrough.
4) The exploit was related to the website where you could unlock R800i models. In order to unlock your bootloader, you need to give your IMEI number (an ID code for GSM phones). Ashergray could convert MEID numbers used by CDMA phones into bogus IMEI numbers, which could be used to unlock the devices. Sony Ericsson patched the website so ashergray's trick didn't work anymore.
5) My thread is a "how-to", do you really expect me to add points 1), 3) and 4) to it?
4 months is an eternity for this kind of business. Exploits get fixed (look at the PSXperia case), policies change (like HTC's and Motorola's) and threads are wiped on short or no notice.
Logseman said:
1) I kindly would like to ask how I'm supposed to know why the bootloader is locked. It's a corporate decision by carriers and Sony Ericsson in which neither I, nor anyone in this forum, have any input. If I had any hard data about why Sony Ericsson doesn't cooperate in the issue, I'd say it. However, I just don't know why, and I prefer not to speak of what I don't know.
2) It seems that both threads have been wiped out of existence (which I didn't know until right now), and I see that a new site appears in Alejandrissimo's signature where he's promoting his services externally (not only the unlocking, but the TA fix and hard-brick fix too). I'd guess that somebody complained about these people making business inside XDA, but then I question the idea of wiping their threads like... months afterwards. At any rate, don't worry, you still can unlock your bootloader with Alejandrissimo's help.
3) On Droid X the bootloader was bypassed because Motorola wouldn't ever unlock it. The FreeXperia team, who had bypassed older Xperia models' bootloaders, decided against it as they saw the new policy of Sony Ericsson's (unlocking phones which didn't come with carrier subsidy). I could unlock my bootloader from day one, and I'm happy to say I've helped devs here therethrough.
4) The exploit was related to the website where you could unlock R800i models. In order to unlock your bootloader, you need to give your IMEI number (an ID code for GSM phones). Ashergray could convert MEID numbers used by CDMA phones into bogus IMEI numbers, which could be used to unlock the devices. Sony Ericsson patched the website so ashergray's trick didn't work anymore.
5) My thread is a "how-to", do you really expect me to add points 1), 3) and 4) to it?
4 months is an eternity for this kind of business. Exploits get fixed (look at the PSXperia case), policies change (like HTC's and Motorola's) and threads are wiped on short or no notice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've sent you some PM's to remove spam / offtopic / rant from the board.
Thanks for the information tho. I wasn't aware of any of that.
It seems that the name FreeXperia is a bit of a misnomer because my Xperia is going to be locked unless I pay 25$ apparently and thats sad when I only paid 90$ for the phone used. Could have been cheaper if I had bought bad ESN(I probably should have tried)
Imagine my surprise coming from Droid X to this phone where droid X has heaps of ROM's available to everyone for free and now I have to worry about getting this device to function at the same level as my old DX with Gummy JAR rom.
I Just wish the spirit of opensource would be in this sub-forum so we could have some real development in terms of flavors of roms and such.
Do you think their is any reason the developers are all charging fee's to show the method through team viewer? I thought it could have something to do with leaking the method and then it could be fixed in later updates. but then again maybe I'm wrong.
It's not that they "show" you the method. They "perform" the method for you. I'm not sure if you can do it with Omnius as well... but if you can, it will be marginally cheaper (unlocking credits are needed anyway!) and you have no assistance.
And about the old "why charge for open source software" dead horse, which is pointless here because there is no open source software involved (the bootloaders are closed-source, SETool is closed-source, and so on):
The Free Software Foundation said:
“Free software” does not mean “noncommercial.”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Additionally, as I said before, the FreeXperia team has this policy: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=15253598&postcount=217
Logseman said:
It's not that they "show" you the method. They "perform" the method for you. I'm not sure if you can do it with Omnius as well... but if you can, it will be marginally cheaper (unlocking credits are needed anyway!) and you have no assistance.
And about the old "why charge for open source software" dead horse, which is pointless here because there is no open source software involved (the bootloaders are closed-source, SETool is closed-source, and so on):
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right on. I'm following you thus far.
Question tho. I read that sony was the best company for hackers and developers right now because they actually are allowing people to get access to the bootloaders. If all this is true why are they not assisting in the unlock of branded phones?
I might be wrong on this but aren't most peoples phones branded anyways through buying a contract?
and that leads to why FreeXperia didn't realize that and find an exploit / workaround for the bootloader being locked on branded phones.
If Setool and Omnius (or whatever it's called) are able to unlock the phones then why was sony. the engineer of the device not able to perform this same task?
Also I thought locking the bootloader violates the FCC regulation. open access provision so why didn't Sony assist the FCC to bypass Verizon.
God another douche, you pay 90 bucks for your phone and you think this community owes you something. Go complain to sony.
What do you mean, Sony can't do it? Of course they can. But they have chosen to do so only with R800i non-branded phones. Considering that they locked bootloaders without any official way to unlock them on previous Xperia models, that's a big step forward. That's as far as Sony Ericsson can go: on branded phones, they must obey what the carriers want.
Please do read Bin4ry's statement:
Now think about, if we would try to hack and bypass devices what will happen with future phones? In our opinion future phones will be locked down again like X10 was, eventually even more.
So why don't use the possibilties which are give by SE? Stick to their rules and hope for more support and maybe even nicer implementations (for example a accessable bootpartition from recovery).
We like SE devices, so we don't want to hijack this (i call it) "test" which SE drives with us?
I can fully understand that U.S. users which cannot unlock are quite unhappy with the actual situation, but sorry we will NOT work on anything else than development for officially unlocked devices! That was a team decision.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note that this is costing them a lot of flak because they don't use R800x models for testing purposes either, and CM7 has many issues in R800x phones.
Also I thought locking the bootloader violates the FCC regulation. open access provision so why didn't Sony assist the FCC to bypass Verizon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If this is correct, sue. I'm sure you'll have backing from everyone here.
Logseman said:
What do you mean, Sony can't do it? Of course they can. But they have chosen to do so only with R800i non-branded phones. Considering that they locked bootloaders without any official way to unlock them on previous Xperia models, that's a big step forward. That's as far as Sony Ericsson can go: on branded phones, they must obey what the carriers want.
Please do read Bin4ry's statement:
Note that this is costing them a lot of flak because they don't use R800x models for testing purposes either, and CM7 has many issues in R800x phones.
If this is correct, sue. I'm sure you'll have backing from everyone here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what your saying is that CM7 is not even worth flashing even if i was unlocked?
I would be better off to root / Titanium backup / delete bloat and be done with it?
Its a shame that they are forcing most people to stay stock SE/Verizon ROM because they are scared of the repercussions of angering SE. I think even if they stay inert that SE will eventually add more DRM to "protect" the devices.
About the lawsuit. I don't believe I'm the first person to mention it. Verizon has already been sued for 25 Million i believe on another occasion and it's been said by others that they are breaking FCC Regulation. The problem would be to get something done about it and I wouldn't have those resources.
The reason for the charge is very simple. In order to unlock our version of the Play (R800x), it takes a hardware dongle and the purchase of credits to allow the software to work. All you are paying Al or whoever for is the cost of the number of credits necessary to unlock your phone. They aren't getting rich off anyone.
If there was another way to unlock the Verizon version, someone would have posted it by now. There isn't, and that's just how it is.
There is a good spirit of free info sharing on this site. You might have to do a little digging but it's there. For example, how to unroot the R800x without having an unlocked bootloader. Takes about a whole 5 minutes to do.
EDIT: I do have to say that after digging around a bit more, I don't blame you for being perturbed. While no one owes us Verizon Play owners anything, there could have been something posted and sticky to make it a bit easier to find out what is going on. And perhaps have had a bit less condescension toward us as well. Must be that UK mentality toward us Colonists!
Re: Droid X vs XPlay development -
Different phones from different brands on different carriers require entirely new learning to develop for, not to mention owning a device to work on. I'd say there's probably only about a dozen people worldwide putting in serious work on this phone.
That's not a lot. If you want more options, you may have to do it yourself.
Hi guys,
The project cheesecake thread is meant strictly for develpment where it is being researched how to unlock the bootloader of Defy. Hence anything other than dev should be kept outside or the thread gets spammed!
Lets continue the discusion here. I will try my best to keep updating the status here once a day. But owing to my schedule that may not be possible at times!
How and why to sue?:
We as owners of the device got full right for it and Moto by locking away the bootloaders is keeping us from using our device to the fullest! A detailed discussion is here in Moto forum which is worth a read.
See 47 CFR Sec. 15.21." in Page 63 of this document.
26-7: In India we may approach Consumer Forum.
Spamming links:
You can mention how much the Defy/Defy+ is used for dev and show this link to CM status (jordan/umts_jordan leads!)
Motorola community discussion for unlocking bootloader.
Facebook page and this post there
I think that we should try to interest some institution in the European Union. European Union draws attention to the rights of consumers. And the locked bootloader restricts the rights of users. We have "open" system - Android, bu we can use only versions from Motorola. The European Union may request Motorola to unlock the bootloader.
All these suing Motorola conversations are bs.
Motorola created device and sells it as is. Not being able to install latest and greatest does not restrict you to use phone's advertised features.
You can gain absolutely nothing by suing Motorola, because there is nothing illegal in not offering an ability to unlock bootloader. Not in Europe, not in India, China, etc.
yackoo said:
I think that we should try to interest some institution in the European Union. European Union draws attention to the rights of consumers. And the locked bootloader restricts the rights of users. We have "open" system - Android, bu we can use only versions from Motorola. The European Union may request Motorola to unlock the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aed0101 said:
You can gain absolutely nothing by suing Motorola, because there is nothing illegal in not offering an ability to unlock bootloader. Not in Europe, not in India, China, etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, but what about the public promise - Motorola said they will remove the lock. This kind of announcement could encourage many users to purchase products of Motorola. But bootloader are still locked - the company deliberately misled customers. It is an unlawful act (providing false information about a product, which may affect the decision to purchase). Anyone who bought a Motorola product after the bootloader announcement, you may feel cheated.
yackoo said:
Ok, but what about the public promise - Motorola said they will remove the lock. This kind of announcement could encourage many users to purchase products of Motorola. But bootloader are still locked - the company deliberately misled customers. It is an unlawful act (providing false information about a product, which may affect the decision to purchase). Anyone who bought a Motorola product after the bootloader announcement, you may feel cheated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any copy of the public promise?! Will add it to the first post
Excellent.
Go ahead you are with us!
yackoo said:
Ok, but what about the public promise - Motorola said they will remove the lock. This kind of announcement could encourage many users to purchase products of Motorola. But bootloader are still locked - the company deliberately misled customers. It is an unlawful act (providing false information about a product, which may affect the decision to purchase). Anyone who bought a Motorola product after the bootloader announcement, you may feel cheated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jep, this makes far more sense to me than suing just because the bootloader is locked. Motorola is not the only brand that sells locked devices.
Also, if this still doesn't work, maybe talking to Google about the broken promise would help since they own Motorola now and they seem to have a more "open" policy than Motorola.
yackoo said:
Ok, but what about the public promise - Motorola said they will remove the lock. This kind of announcement could encourage many users to purchase products of Motorola. But bootloader are still locked - the company deliberately misled customers. It is an unlawful act (providing false information about a product, which may affect the decision to purchase). Anyone who bought a Motorola product after the bootloader announcement, you may feel cheated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The public promise has no legal value. You can't sue Motorola for that, niether can you sue them for not unlocking the bootloader as Aed0101 said.
Regarding the law, they are in their full right and this class-action lawsuit idea will go nowhere at all. Just cut all this bull**** about the locked bootloader and move on...
Trust me, i want the bootloader unlocked just as much as you do. Either we do it ourselves eventually, either we never have one. End of story.
Motorola Defy, CM7 @ 1Ghz + CM9 multiboot
[Guide] Install double boot CM7 + CM9
[Guide][Root needed] Unsimlock your Defy
[Mod/Fix][APP]Messaging apps with ENTER button enabled!
Wow! You mean to tell me you know every obscure law regarding consumer products in every country that Motorola sells it's products? I'm impressed!
If someone thinks that they can find a crack in Moto's armor, let them. Who knows what we can gain by it. They just want to find a way to help our devs but maybe, don't know how to program.
crakeron said:
The public promise has no legal value.
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I can't agree with that. We are talking about important functionality. Imagine, that the manufacturer says "next update will add feature X". You are looking for a device with such a function and you select Motorola - because he has to have this feature. After a while Motorola forget about the "problem". This is not a promise made by Mr. Smith, but by a huge corporation. It's a big difference.
yackoo said:
I can't agree with that. We are talking about important functionality. Imagine, that the manufacturer says "next update will add feature X". You are looking for a device with such a function and you select Motorola - because he has to have this feature. After a while Motorola forget about the "problem". This is not a promise made by Mr. Smith, but by a huge corporation. It's a big difference.
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I agree with this comment!
Motorola has said they will start releasing tools to unlock bootloaders for its devices, started with Photon Q
http://androidcommunity.com/motorola-finally-unlocking-bootloaders-for-real-this-time-20120726/?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=Connectandroid
S3nt fr0m my D3fy/w1u1 GB st4BL3
Motorola photon Q has boot loader unlocked..motorola announced
Maybe moto will say something like Defy is too old well only unlock new phones... motorola style loll
It has nothing to do with legal knowledge. It´s just common sense. Unfortunately, not everybody have it.
I guess the only way to gain something (if possible at all) is contacting both Motorola and Google.
visualist6x6 said:
Wow! You mean to tell me you know every obscure law regarding consumer products in every country that Motorola sells it's products? I'm impressed!
If someone thinks that they can find a crack in Moto's armor, let them. Who knows what we can gain by it. They just want to find a way to help our devs but maybe, don't know how to program.
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yackoo said:
Ok, but what about the public promise - Motorola said they will remove the lock. This kind of announcement could encourage many users to purchase products of Motorola.
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Moto never "promised" anything to unlock booloaders. In 2011 they said:
"In terms of your question – we completely understand the operator requirement for security to the end user, and as well, want to support the developer communities desire to use these products as a development platform. It is our intention to enable the unlockable/relockable bootloader currently found on Motorola XOOM across our portfolio of devices starting in late 2011, where carriers and operators will allow it.”
So, just an Intention to unlock where carriers and operators allow it. Trust me, a law suit is useless.
nidhish91 said:
Motorola has said they will start releasing tools to unlock bootloaders for its devices, started with Photon Q
http://androidcommunity.com/motorol...?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=Connectandroid
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Now this is getting interesting! This announcement deserves a new topic. I advise to do some spamming here:
http://community.developer.motorola...ader-discussion-board/td-p/22108?pubid=987654
Martijn1971 said:
So, just an Intention to unlock where carriers and operators allow it.
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There are smartphones with unlocked bootloaders in European market. So carriers are not problem - unless we assume that carriers prohibit removing the lock only in devices of Motorola. But this is impossible.
Now this is getting interesting! This announcement deserves a new topic. I advise to do some spamming here:
http://community.developer.motorola...ader-discussion-board/td-p/22108?pubid=987654
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Agreed! Defy has to be the second phone on their list, and spamming the forum maybe improves the chances of getting it there
Also, contacting Google could help. Maybe post it as official Android issue? Even if its specific to just one device, I've already seen things which were specific to other phones aswell.
Motorola sucks so bad We just want an unlocked bootloader, I don't think it's such a big task for them. We didn't even ask for official 4.0/4.1, we just want our bootloader unlocked...
When spamming Moto forums, post a link to the Cyanogenmod install stats page so they can see that Defy is in top 5 in all time installations of CM
As we know, Amazon never released an official way to unlock the bootloader on their devices.
I'm pretty sure a lot of their customers have requested the same thing over and over, but what i'm not sure of is if anyone got a response from their "customer help" like mine.
The other day, I sent my 2nd request regarding the bootloader unlock, kernel sources and "system_core" patches they'd released for Kindle Fire HD and HDX, the answer was being already a lot more interactive then my first response(props to that).
They replied saying that "Kernel source codes weren't available at this time", and that they had forwarded my suggestion to its developer team, but i noticed the employee forgot to mention the bootloader unlock part, which for me was of utter importance.
So again i contacted them, via the reply option we get when we send feedback, in order to continue the last question and asked about the bootloader unlock.
This is the full reply i got from them today:
Hello _____,
My name is Vijay, I'm with Fire Phone support.
I'm sorry that my colleague missed out on mentioning about bootloader unlock code for Fire Phone.
I have checked in our database and see that we haven't released bootloader unlock code for Fire Phones because our technical team is still working on developer version. We regret for any inconvenience this may have caused to you.
We realize how important bootloaders unlock code is to our developers. I'd like to inform you that we are also looking for developers who can help us to make our Fire Phone top notch.
Considering your comments, I have forwarded your request to Fire Phone development team for review.
Although, at this time, we do not have any information regarding unlock code, please be assured, we will definitely consider your customer comments as we work on improvements in Fire Phone space.
When we're ready to announce developer version, we'll definitely provide bootloader unlock code on our website. I'd like to thank you for bringing the need for this to our attention.
Thanks again for taking the time and sending us your valuable feedback.
We hope to see you again!!
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It was explicitly said that their technical team is working on a developer version of the phone and that they will, and i quote, DEFINITELY, provide bootloader unlock code on their website.
That is a really great response. Thanks amazon.
v6ser said:
As we know, Amazon never released an official way to unlock the bootloader on their devices.
I'm pretty sure a lot of their customers have requested the same thing over and over, but what i'm not sure of is if anyone got a response from their "customer help" like mine.
The other day, I sent my 2nd request regarding the bootloader unlock, kernel sources and "system_core" patches they'd released for Kindle Fire HD and HDX, the answer was being already a lot more interactive then my first response(props to that).
They replied saying that "Kernel source codes weren't available at this time", and that they had forwarded my suggestion to its developer team, but i noticed the employee forgot to mention the bootloader unlock part, which for me was of utter importance.
So again i contacted them, via the reply option we get when we send feedback, in order to continue the last question and asked about the bootloader unlock.
This is the full reply i got from them today:
It was explicitly said that their technical team is working on a developer version and that they will, and i quote, DEFINITELY, provide bootloader unlock code on their website.
That is a really great response, from a great company. Thanks Amazon, i knew you wouldn't fail me
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That is awesome news
This is fantastic! I'm guessing this would allow for better NFC support and maybe even a camera fix?
Vijay said:
...our technical team is still working on developer version ... When we're ready to announce developer version...
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I wonder when that will be... maybe even before Kanye running for president.
Vijay said:
we are also looking for developers who can help us to make our Fire Phone top notch
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Their headhunters are doing a bad job so far... I can think of a person, what was his name, uhm...
Amazon is a "huge" company but I refuse to call them "great".
Bingo Bronson said:
I wonder when that will be... maybe even before Kanye running for president.
Their headhunters are doing a bad job so far... I can think of a person, what was his name, uhm...
Amazon is a "huge" company but I refuse to call them "great".
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Maybe to you, but i'm not one to judge the entire company only for their mobile hardware department, which is a tiny one.
So i appreciate your thoughts but i do not share them.
Bingo Bronson said:
I wonder when that will be... maybe even before Kanye running for president.
Their headhunters are doing a bad job so far... I can think of a person, what was his name, uhm...
Amazon is a "huge" company but I refuse to call them "great".
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@v6ser, It is truly great news that they are thinking about unlocking the bootloader. Please keep in mind that not always will we agree with you and look at the emojis being used by posters. Bingo was just good naturedly disagreeing with you. Not everyone is a hater who disagrees
v6ser said:
Maybe to you, but i'm not one to judge the entire company only for their mobile hardware department, which is a tiny one.
So i appreciate your thoughts but i do not share them.
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We can all appreciate each others thoughts but don't necessarily have to agree. :highfive: I think Amazon is a very good company but they did drop the ball with their FirePhone, OS, and closed it to developers. Hopefully they will cooperate and give them the tools they need to help us reap the benefits of their abilities!!! I know I sure can't but I appreciate the efforts of those who can
Thats great, and confusing...amazon seems to have a split personality when it comes to locking down some devices then apparently handing over the keys to others.
A phone is different than set top boxes and tablets I guess but I thought the idea of them taking a loss on the hardware was to lock people in the ecosystem and making money by selling books, games, apps, movies, any product imaginable with the amazon shopping app (which I hear is going to be incorporated into fire tv and stick.)
Not complaining at all obviously. Just wish I wouldve bought at least one more! Thanks for the good news.
KLit75 said:
Thats great, and confusing...amazon seems to have a split personality when it comes to locking down some devices then apparently handing over the keys to others.
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They have stopped selling the Fire Phone which basically means they are discontinuing all support for the device and calling their loses. It makes sense to hand over the keys to the community so those with the phone are totally SOL.
The real shame is that the hardware is actually solid, but fire OS is a nightmare and shipping a device without the Google Play Store was just stupid since many apps are not in the Amazon store.
Moogagot said:
They have stopped selling the Fire Phone which basically means they are discontinuing all support for the device and calling their loses. It makes sense to hand over the keys to the community so those with the phone are totally SOL.
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How does this make sense at all? The phone is discontinued, they gain nothing from unlocking the bootloader.
they can clear out there inventory faster if they unlock the bootloader.
apxi84 said:
they can clear out there inventory faster if they unlock the bootloader.
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They don't have any inventory left. They dumped it all to a third party seller on ebay now.
runderekrun said:
How does this make sense at all? The phone is discontinued, they gain nothing from unlocking the bootloader.
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apxi84 said:
they can clear out there inventory faster if they unlock the bootloader.
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jpeg42 said:
They don't have any inventory left. They dumped it all to a third party seller on ebay now.
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1) they gain some goodwill on Fire devices (Fire TV, Fire tablets), whereas the Fire phone tarnished the brand name. Unlocking the bootloader, letting development happen salvages some of that.
2) by allowing unlocking bootloader, those are warranty claims they don't have to worry about. Even if they aren't selling them anymore, they still have to honor warranty claims on the new devices that are sold by 3rd parties -- unless the buyer voluntarily voids the warranty by unlocking the bootloader.
This is my first visit to this forum. I just ordered a Fire Phone for $125 from who I believe to be a liquidator who received a quantity of stock to clear. The phone comes with an unlock code!
ChazzMatt said:
2) by allowing unlocking bootloader, those are warranty claims they don't have to worry about. Even if they aren't selling them anymore, they still have to honor warranty claims on the new devices that are sold by 3rd parties -- unless the buyer voluntarily voids the warranty by unlocking the bootloader.
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Well how sneaky is that! I will gladly void my warranty for an unlocked bootloader So I agree with you there.:good:
Yes. Probably the guy that sold over 11,000 of them already. Its an amazing deal if youre planning on being a prime member regardless.
I dunno though about amazon making amends to the people who overpaid for this phone last summer. In my opinion, anyone that shelled out $650 for fire phone was not planning on doing any modifications to it. They were sold on the camera, firefly, prime etc. STILL, regardless of the reasoning, its great news about the bootloader being unlockable.
Kernel source/GPL
"Kernel source codes weren't available at this time"
Umm, wat? GPL? Isnt' this it here? Or are we talking about a different phone?
Moogagot said:
They have stopped selling the Fire Phone which basically means they are discontinuing all support for the device and calling their loses. It makes sense to hand over the keys to the community so those with the phone are totally SOL.
The real shame is that the hardware is actually solid, but fire OS is a nightmare and shipping a device without the Google Play Store was just stupid since many apps are not in the Amazon store.
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Well i can understand why they did that... It wasn't from what i have heard a great device
ChazzMatt said:
1) they gain some goodwill on Fire devices (Fire TV, Fire tablets), whereas the Fire phone tarnished the brand name. Unlocking the bootloader, letting development happen salvages some of that.
2) by allowing unlocking bootloader, those are warranty claims they don't have to worry about. Even if they aren't selling them anymore, they still have to honor warranty claims on the new devices that are sold by 3rd parties -- unless the buyer voluntarily voids the warranty by unlocking the bootloader.
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Wishful thinking at its finest. Amazon doesn't care about "goodwill" when it comes to a dead device. They dumped stock and are trying to put the whole thing behind them. Why would they release something else to get a failed project's name back in the news? Specially when it is of 0 monetary value to them?
runderekrun said:
Wishful thinking at its finest. Amazon doesn't care about "goodwill" when it comes to a dead device. They dumped stock and are trying to put the whole thing behind them. Why would they release something else to get a failed project's name back in the news? Specially when it is of 0 monetary value to them?
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The question wasn't are they doing it. The question was why they sure doing it. And I answered the question. You are merely asking it again. Read my reply, again.
If you doubt this is happening, reply to the op, not to me. Because you're asking a question ("why") I've already answered quite well.
ChazzMatt said:
The question wasn't are they doing it. The question was why they sure doing it. And I answered the question. You are merely asking it again. Read my reply, again.
If you doubt this is happening, reply to the op, not to me. Because you're asking a question ("why") I've already answered quite well.
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I've reread this comment about 10 times I still have no idea what you are saying.
"The question was why they sure doing it." What???