Develop Bugs

Official: AT&T Samsung Focus S has 16GB of non-expandable storage

So there you go, 2nd gen phones are officially a failure and yes you can call me a hater I don't care.
Microsoft killed the Zunes so they should have made it mandatory that every OEM offers at least one 32GB+ model. If you want people to ditch their PMP give them a good reason to or they might end up ditching it for an iPhone.
http://www.wpcentral.com/it-s-official-samsung-focus-s-has-16gb-non-expandable-storage
Edit: Let me just temper that by saying they're a failure mostly for us who already have a 1st gen phone. I guess for 1st time buyers there is some incentive but not so much (no extra storage, no microSD support, no hardware keyboard)

Ah well. Looks like I'll just hang onto my original Focus. Too bad about this.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

MartyLK said:
Ah well. Looks like I'll just hang onto my original Focus. Too bad a out this.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, I will stay with my OMNIA 7.
For 1st gen device owners it´s not very interesting to buy a 2nd gen device.
In my eyes a marketing failure...
Personally I don´t need more storage than 16GB and who is using permanently the FFC ?
I always used only simple voip calls without video and besides I absolutely like my OMNIA 7.

Yet another wp7 phone with disappointing specs and insufficient storage.
Finally I am not really surprised if WP7 is failing.
People who love media and need decent storage will probably move to Android or iOS.

I don't care because I'm waiting for the Nokia dual core 4+" Amoled screen LTE Tango phone that will hopefully be here before Q2 of next year.... And if it isn't, I'll just get an Apollo phone in Q4 of 2012 because my focus is still doing a great job and I can wait till then if necessary.
Sent from my Windows Phone Mango Focus using Board Express

I think you mean apollo? Lol. Color me surprised about this phone. These oems are not clueless though. They simply don't care since the old hardware they're using is cheap ad hell and majority of their sales are on android. Samsung sales more bada devices than wp7 at this point. These devices are failing heard at what was supposed be their strongest feature (doubling up as a Zune HD).

I don't see how they expect the devices to sell as a Zune HD replacement, or as a device that is competitive to any of the current high-end smart phones when the OEMs provide sub-par specs on every new WP device. Count me as another one that is sticking with my Focus... and I would have upgraded to the Focus S if they had put a decent amount of local storage in. I'm constantly shuffling things on/off my Focus with 24 GB now, so I'm not going with a smaller storage device.
They don't really have any excuses for the skimping either, as the current GS2 comes in 16 or 32 GB local storage. They've put a cheaper single-core processor in already (and I understand the reasons there), but the Focus S is selling for the same price as a GS2... so there's no excuse to also cut back local storage. This is quite disappointing, as I had already ruled out Nokia's current offerings because of the lack of FFC and small screen size.
I don't want to wait until generation 3 of WP before getting a new device, but the next possibility looks to be the Nokia 900 sometime in the first half of next year. MS really needs to get the OEMs in hand and have them put out devices that have competitive hardware to the other platforms (iPhone 4S, Samsung GS2, Nokia N9, etc.), or they need to start producing their own devices ala XBox. They can't do much worse than the OEMs, as every new device has been a disappointment in one area or another. At this point, I'd be happy if we were getting clones of Android device hardware.

contable said:
Same here, I will stay with my OMNIA 7.
For 1st gen device owners it´s not very interesting to buy a 2nd gen device.
In my eyes a marketing failure...
Personally I don´t need more storage than 16GB and who is using permanently the FFC ?
I always used only simple voip calls without video and besides I absolutely like my OMNIA 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If my current Focus was limited to 16GB like the Focus S is, it would be nearly full. And that's without videos. Fortunately my current Focus has the ability of expanding up to 40GB. That's worth a lot to me.
I think I will overlook any new WP7 hardware until MS gets real with it.

MartyLK said:
If my current Focus was limited to 16GB like the Focus S is, it would be nearly full. And that's without videos. Fortunately my current Focus has the ability of expanding up to 40GB. That's worth a lot to me.
I think I will overlook any new WP7 hardware until MS gets real with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You replaced the internal SD-Card, right ?
I thought this is only possible for HD7 users...
In that case it would be very stupid if you buy a 2nd gen device...

Why anybody would need more than 16gb is beyond me. I have pretty much every app that I can think of installed and I still have 5 GB left.
No need to put pictures and songs because you can easily have those on the cloud.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

contable said:
You replaced the internal SD-Card, right ?
I thought this is only possible for HD7 users...
In that case it would be very stupid if you buy a 2nd gen device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, unless the AT&T version of the HD7 is different, the Focus is immediately accessable to switch cards out, whereas the HD7 is not and requires a warranty voiding disassembly. The Focus doesn't come with a card and requires users to buy a card separately. But the access to the slot is as open and easy as any Android hardware. A 32GB card is my next option, which will give me 40GB with the internal 8GB.
---------- Post added at 05:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------
karan1203 said:
Why anybody would need more than 16gb is beyond me. I have pretty much every app that I can think of installed and I still have 5 GB left.
No need to put pictures and songs because you can easily have those on the cloud.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately for AT&T users, the Cloud is not a viable option because of the limited data service. I would never use it anyway for media. And 2GB of data each month is too small to constantly be streaming music and videos with.

karan1203 said:
Why anybody would need more than 16gb is beyond me. I have pretty much every app that I can think of installed and I still have 5 GB left.
No need to put pictures and songs because you can easily have those on the cloud.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is exactly my situation. Couldn't agree more.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

Lol people still boasting the cloud as a storage replacement. What if you only have a 200-500 mb data plan?
Thebcloud is useful, very useful.
The cloud is useless as a replacement for true on-device storage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using Tapatalk

No one on this planet should be using a smartphone with 500 MB. You are inviting disaster of biblical proportions.

Yea 5GB of data at least
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

The only way I would feel comfortable streaming is with unlimited data.

5GB is pretty tough to run out while streaming music unless you are doing it hours without end. T-mobile has a 10GB option and you'd still be paying less and with better speeds than AT&T.
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

bmstrong said:
No one on this planet should be using a smartphone with 500 MB. You are inviting disaster of biblical proportions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the UK only one maybe two carriers offer over 500MB. Even if that wasn't the case, you don't get 100% coverage so you can't rely exclusively on the cloud. Not to mention scenarios where you travel or damage to your battery. I don't like calling people stupid but some should seriously think about what they say (not addressing you, just some previous posters). Everything on the cloud, really?

Until the industry can produce a battery that can last 40 to 50 hours while streaming on data or WiFi, the Cloud will never be a viable alternative to internal storage for media playing. As it is right now, my iPhone 4 gets 40 hours for music playing and 10 hours for video playing. My Focus gets probably at least 20 hours music playing. Music playing combined with streaming would knock it down to a few hours at best.

When I stream it has little effect on my battery
Sent from my T7575 using Board Express

Windows Phone 8 Preview

PocketNow dropped some really awesome details on Windows Phone 8. Now that the information is public Paul Thurrott can talk about it a little more open and honestly with probably more credible evidence.
Some points he discussed that are interesting:
-Windows Phone 8 will be based on the Windows 8 kernel and now Windows CE like it currently is.
-Will launch together with Windows 8 and share an integrated ecosystem thanks to the same code, user experience, and components.
-Data Smart
-App to app communication
-Internet Explorer 10 Mobile
-Shared components with Windows 8
-Companion experiences with Windows 8 (HELL YES)
-SkyDrive integration
-Skype app
-NFC and Wallet
-Improved Local Scout
-Camera Improvements
-Better business features
I'll update this post with greater detail. But in the meantime check out Paul's site for details here.
What feature are you most excited for??? Sound off.

I'm personally most excited for the "Companion experiences with Windows 8". Syncing content between the Xbox, phone, and laptop/desktop/tablet will be awesome.
My ideal future would be to be at the local coffee shop and maybe get a text on my phone and since the phone is in my backpack it could instead show on the messaging hub in Windows 8. I can reply there in Windows 8 and the phone will show the message as both read and replied to. Awesome right? We'll see what the future holds.

samsabri said:
I'm personally most excited for the "Companion experiences with Windows 8". Syncing content between the Xbox, phone, and laptop/desktop/tablet will be awesome.
My ideal future would be to be at the local coffee shop and maybe get a text on my phone and since the phone is in my backpack it could instead show on the messaging hub in Windows 8. I can reply there in Windows 8 and the phone will show the message as both read and replied to. Awesome right? We'll see what the future holds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
neat idea, working with some services already.
So you have your laptop tethered to the phone, or depending on free wifi ? Just thinking about data charges for a 5x transfer of a mms between the laptop and phone...

ohgood said:
neat idea, working with some services already.
So you have your laptop tethered to the phone, or depending on free wifi ? Just thinking about data charges for a 5x transfer of a mms between the laptop and phone...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ideally the OS would be smart enough to figure out which networks to use to optimize data usage if you were tethering and not on wifi. But I'm sure there are solutions to make a good user experience.

Seem like nice features to me. I guess the big question is which phones will get the update though.. Tempted to get the Lumia 910 when it comes out here in the UK or Titan 2 but I hate this game of "Will I ever get the new OS when it comes out" that I've had with Android till now. Though seeing as no phones are being announced to launch with it, my wisest guess would that Nokia aren't going to forget their flagship phones lol, HTC.. not so sure =P

Nit3m4re said:
Seem like nice features to me. I guess the big question is which phones will get the update though.. Tempted to get the Lumia 910 when it comes out here in the UK or Titan 2 but I hate this game of "Will I ever get the new OS when it comes out" that I've had with Android till now. Though seeing as no phones are being announced to launch with it, my wisest guess would that Nokia aren't going to forget their flagship phones lol, HTC.. not so sure =P
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be interesting what phones get the update. I want to say I think most devices out right now will be able to work with it, unless the new kernel requires different hardware.
I know this isn't the most convenient option for OEMS and companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Google since you want to push innovation forward. But...in countries like the US where carriers still have more power than they should phones need to be able to last two years for two years of upgrades.
Obviously if you buy a phone at the end of it's lifecycle you can't expect to get updates two years from purchase but it's not hard to believe they can try for two years of software support from initial release.
What other features are you guys stoked about in WP8?

Last i heard microsoft was eyeing an october launch for the win8 tablets. Hopefully they release apollo around then too.

rruffman already started a thread on this.
admins can you merge this thread with the original?

hummm even if there will ever be a w8 like lite-mobile version, i dont think 1st gen and 2 gen phones will be supported, with an 8GB storage....

XxAndrexX said:
hummm even if there will ever be a w8 like lite-mobile version, i dont think 1st gen and 2 gen phones will be supported, with an 8GB storage....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flash storage has nothing to do with OS upgrade. MS policy is to support 2 years for each devices. Dont see why they won't be supported. May be Gen1 won't be able to benefit from all the new hardware features that can be used by apps, but that is it.

I hope so.... but I'm not optimistic

XxAndrexX said:
hummm even if there will ever be a w8 like lite-mobile version, i dont think 1st gen and 2 gen phones will be supported, with an 8GB storage....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The NT kernel is only 25 MB. They wouldn't include all the subsystems of desktop Windows.

drupad2drupad said:
MS policy is to support 2 years for each devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source for this information?

I wonder if we will see any advantages of running the NT kernel on our Windows Phones.

sionicion said:
I wonder if we will see any advantages of running the NT kernel on our Windows Phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the biggest advantage doesn't lie with us consumers, but instead the developers!
I don't know much about coding, but from I've come to understand is if they share the same kernel it can make creating an application that works on a laptop/desktop/tablet and a phone a lot easier. By saving developers time, energy and resources they might feel more incentive to create applications for Windows 8 / Windows Phone 8.
Another added benefit: the sales of "PCs" can boost the number of apps. When you go buy a new laptop, tablet, or desktop running Windows it will add to the total normal of devices that a developer can target on the platform. With the increased marketshare devs will be more compelled to add the app to the Windows Phone Marketplace with the increased ease with their code.
Consumers / You and me...win! With more quality apps added to our arsenal we get to reap the rewards of WP8 and Win8 sharing the same kernel.

WP8 info looks good.
Finally an upgrade from windows mobile.
It looks like it will have an accessible user file system. My main problem with WP7.
Also more languages beyond .NET/silverlight. It will get a lot of standard apps ported which were written in C++.
Targeting of business is long overdue and will improve the software for everyone.
I hope it has more VOIP integration. I think that is the future.

Leapo said:
Source for this information?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its false. MSFT gave carriers the authority to control and push updates. This means MSFT will not support devices for 2 years. My at&t first Gen phone is no longer supported after mango 7720. We don't even get the keyboard disappearing fix.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

karan1203 said:
its false. MSFT gave carriers the authority to control and push updates. This means MSFT will not support devices for 2 years. My at&t first Gen phone is no longer supported after mango 7720. We don't even get the keyboard disappearing fix.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Source please?

karan1203 said:
its false. MSFT gave carriers the authority to control and push updates. This means MSFT will not support devices for 2 years. My at&t first Gen phone is no longer supported after mango 7720.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another good reason to buy a phone sim free. You pay for the phone over the course of the contract anyway so it's never free.
Also the deal MS have is that they have to push every second update at least. So you should be upgraded to 8107 soon. (They skipped 7740 and they can only skip one)

Boburto said:
Another good reason to buy a phone sim free. You pay for the phone over the course of the contract anyway so it's never free.
Also the deal MS have is that they have to push every second update at least. So you should be upgraded to 8107 soon. (They skipped 7740 and they can only skip one)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may not be free, but still cheaper with AT&T in the United States. If you buy the phone at the no contract price, your monthly payment for service is not any cheaper. You just have the option of cancelling without paying $350 minus $10 for each month you had service.
If you are going to keep the phone for 2 years and don't want to switch to cancel or switch to a prepaid plan, it is cheaper to buy it on contract.
And, if you want to switch to a prepaid plan, it is still sometimes cheaper to get a phone with a contract. The HTC HD7 for AT&T is $0.01 if you get a 2 year contract, but is $449 if you buy it for a prepaid plan. So, it is about $100 cheaper to take the contract and then cancel after a month and pay $340. Then switch the phone to a prepaid plan.
They are out of stock for the HD7 for the prepaid plan, but not with a contract, which is funny since it is the same phone.

Lumia 900 vs Skyrocket

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2402556,00.asp
Went through the article where they compared the new windows phone flagship to our phone's twin brother.
What's everyone's thoughts on WP?
I've always gotten Nokia phones, solid and reliable (Still have my E63, my reliable backup! Smartphone with 5 days battery ). But once symbian died and iOS+Android began dominating I switched to android. I wish Nokia had joined the Android train but they didn't...but I've played with and seen all the stuff about WP, and I think it could be a promising competitor if Nokia and Microsoft play their cards right.
But for now...the t989 and Skyrocket win in my book in terms of performance, utility, and apps. But having used FB and Twitter integration, and seeing how snappy it is with even a single core, and most importantly MS Office...I would have to say in those aspects WP definitely has a leg up on Android and iOS...
It will be interesting to see if in 2 years when my contract expires and it's time for an upgrade weather WP will have matured enough for me to defect...and if Nokia still builds rock-solid phones like it used to...it may not be an argument of if, but if I can even wait for my contract to expire .
Thoughts please, no flames!

Windows phones suck...period.
Thread closed!!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using XDA

By the way - it's Lumia 900 - the Lumina is a Chevy...
I've put some major thought into this, so I hope you truly consider my response. I've actually had the opportunity to hold and play with the Lumia 900 unlike mr. Windows phone sucks comment above me.
If you're going to go AT&T no matter what, you can ignore my first con.
Cons for the Lumia 900
1. AT&T!!!
2. As far as I know - Nokia drive is not included. (Not really sure - just from seeing review unit videos on other sites)
3. Zero google support on WP7. This is a huge downer for me - especially since I rely on Google voice for everything, but this also includes maps, google+, docs, etc. Although gmail and google calendar sync fine and there are third party alternatives to some.
4. I own a mac and wp7 phones tend to not play very nice sometimes - even with wp7 connector.
5. It's pretty heavy compared to my t989.
6. WP7 notifications bug me. So does the status bar.
7. Lack of apps (you already know this it seems)
8. Windows phone gets boring after about a month. The smooth animations and transitions only hold your attention for so long. I started with Android, switched to windows, went back to android, back to windows, back to Android to stay unless windows does something amazing.
9. Locked down. Including not being able to send files to a friend (besides pictures)
Pros
1. Sick looking phone. Sleek and gorgeous. Beautiful design.
2. $99
3. WP7.5 is a darn nice phone OS - sleek and smooth. Beautiful animations. Quick links to common tasks. They did a lot of good in this release - but it still has it's quirks.
4. Carl Zeiss 8MP cam. Should make for some beautiful shots.
5. Screen is gorgeous. Bright, vivid, clearblack. Best screen I've ever seen on a WP7 phone and a great size too.
6. Odd, but convenient power button placement
7. The Lumia 900 is what Windows phone should have started with. At the price point and the great hardware, this is a contender phone.
Take it for what it's worth. Had my hands on one about a week ago.

zigfreid5 said:
By the way - it's Lumia 900 - the Lumina is a Chevy...
I've put some major thought into this, so I hope you truly consider my response. I've actually had the opportunity to hold and play with the Lumia 900 unlike mr. Windows phone sucks comment above me.
If you're going to go AT&T no matter what, you can ignore my first con.
Cons for the Lumia 900
1. AT&T!!!
2. As far as I know - Nokia drive is not included. (Not really sure - just from seeing review unit videos on other sites)
3. Zero google support on WP7. This is a huge downer for me - especially since I rely on Google voice for everything, but this also includes maps, google+, docs, etc. Although gmail and google calendar sync fine and there are third party alternatives to some.
4. I own a mac and wp7 phones tend to not play very nice sometimes - even with wp7 connector.
5. It's pretty heavy compared to my t989.
6. WP7 notifications bug me. So does the status bar.
7. Lack of apps (you already know this it seems)
8. Windows phone gets boring after about a month. The smooth animations and transitions only hold your attention for so long. I started with Android, switched to windows, went back to android, back to windows, back to Android to stay unless windows does something amazing.
9. Locked down. Including not being able to send files to a friend (besides pictures)
Pros
1. Sick looking phone. Sleek and gorgeous. Beautiful design.
2. $99
3. WP7.5 is a darn nice phone OS - sleek and smooth. Beautiful animations. Quick links to common tasks. They did a lot of good in this release - but it still has it's quirks.
4. Carl Zeiss 8MP cam. Should make for some beautiful shots.
5. Screen is gorgeous. Bright, vivid, clearblack. Best screen I've ever seen on a WP7 phone and a great size too.
6. Odd, but convenient power button placement
7. The Lumia 900 is what Windows phone should have started with. At the price point and the great hardware, this is a contender phone.
Take it for what it's worth. Had my hands on one about a week ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I have said Lumina forever...guess its just my car-centric mind wanting it to be Lumina....whoops.
I'm not saying I would get a WP right now...maybe if the platform gets popular and matures, gets some better features and apps and gets all the kings worked out...I'm hoping it happens.

zander21510 said:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2402556,00.asp
Went through the article where they compared the new windows phone flagship to our phone's twin brother.
What's everyone's thoughts on WP?
I've always gotten Nokia phones, solid and reliable (Still have my E63, my reliable backup! Smartphone with 5 days battery ). But once symbian died and iOS+Android began dominating I switched to android. I wish Nokia had joined the Android train but they didn't...but I've played with and seen all the stuff about WP, and I think it could be a promising competitor if Nokia and Microsoft play their cards right.
But for now...the t989 and Skyrocket win in my book in terms of performance, utility, and apps. But having used FB and Twitter integration, and seeing how snappy it is with even a single core, and most importantly MS Office...I would have to say in those aspects WP definitely has a leg up on Android and iOS...
It will be interesting to see if in 2 years when my contract expires and it's time for an upgrade weather WP will have matured enough for me to defect...and if Nokia still builds rock-solid phones like it used to...it may not be an argument of if, but if I can even wait for my contract to expire .
Thoughts please, no flames!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just bought a Dell Venue Pro since I been dying to try WP7 and my experiences is that the OS is REALLY GOOD! I haven't gotten a Single crash or Lag or the need to hack for overclocking or getting rid of a crappy skin everything is freaking smooth. I still miss alot of things of my GSII thats taking a break until official ICS update. Windows Phone overall is 80% there but those 20% leave you on a empty stomach wanting for more.

stick with android
Though Windows Phone OS is very nice and smooth, the utter lack of apps and even greater lack of customization will wear on you quickly. If you're on XDA that tells me that having options matters to you, and with Windows Phone, there are very little options.

The comparison is funny, every spec is better.. why r u asking?

PJcastaldo said:
The comparison is funny, every spec is better.. why r u asking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well thats the point, of course right now the skyrocket/989 and many other phones are obviously better...but I'm thinking in a couple of years WP might be a viable player if they play their cards right and the OS matures to support cutting edge hardware and has app development.

PJcastaldo said:
The comparison is funny, every spec is better.. why r u asking?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Specs can be better but we all know higher specs don't mean anything in the android world. Lets not even mention lack of support! I can bet money that Nokia will keep updating the Nokia 900 for year or Two while AT&T,Samsung and Google might not even support the skyrocket for more than a year. Don't get me wrong I love having high ends specs, but is like a prostitute that tells you she loves you and in two months she stole your money and left you out in the streets that how I feel about android and all this carriers.

josemedina1983 said:
Specs can be better but we all know higher specs don't mean anything in the android world. Lets not even mention lack of support! I can bet money that Nokia will keep updating the Nokia 900 for year and Two while AT&T,Samsung and Google might not even support the skyrocket for more than a year. Don't get me wrong I love having high ends specs, but is like a prostitute that tells you she loves and in two months she stole your money and left you out in the streets that how I feel about android and all this carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Awesome comparison
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

josemedina1983 said:
Specs can be better but we all know higher specs don't mean anything in the android world. Lets not even mention lack of support! I can bet money that Nokia will keep updating the Nokia 900 for year or Two while AT&T,Samsung and Google might not even support the skyrocket for more than a year. Don't get me wrong I love having high ends specs, but is like a prostitute that tells you she loves you and in two months she stole your money and left you out in the streets that how I feel about android and all this carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This phone might be the exception, rather than the rule, since this is the THE PHONE that Nokia plans on cracking the U.S. market with, so it's probably higher on their priority list. But in my experience, do not expect magical support from Nokia. I just recently (as of February) defected from a Nokia N8 to Android and for the year I owned it, this was their software release schedule:
1) Announce software update
2) Wait 3 months
3) Announce release date
4) Push release date back 3 months
5) Start shipping YOUR EXACT PHONE MODEL with the software update out of the box
6) Wait 1 month
7) Start rolling out software update to customers who already bought the phone in Turkey(insert other relatively small European country here)
8) Wait 3 months
9) Push software update to U.S.
Now I've learned that Samsung isn't much better, I'm just saying that the grass is always greener on the other side. The other OS always seems to get their updates faster
**Side note: all Lumias definitely come with Nokia Maps. Which I miss, since Navigation has routed me through some weird routes before and I've rarely had a bad experience with Nokia Maps.

Raul69.atl said:
Windows phones suck...period.
Thread closed!!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-T989 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 7 year old sister could formulate a more thought out comment.
How can an OS suck? I know so many people that have them and really like the simplicity and easy use of windows phones. Don't be a fanboy.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

yoft1 said:
This phone might be the exception, rather than the rule, since this is the THE PHONE that Nokia plans on cracking the U.S. market with, so it's probably higher on their priority list. But in my experience, do not expect magical support from Nokia. I just recently (as of February) defected from a Nokia N8 to Android and for the year I owned it, this was their software release schedule:
1) Announce software update
2) Wait 3 months
3) Announce release date
4) Push release date back 3 months
5) Start shipping YOUR EXACT PHONE MODEL with the software update out of the box
6) Wait 1 month
7) Start rolling out software update to customers who already bought the phone in Turkey(insert other relatively small European country here)
8) Wait 3 months
9) Push software update to U.S.
Now I've learned that Samsung isn't much better, I'm just saying that the grass is always greener on the other side. The other OS always seems to get their updates faster
**Side note: all Lumias definitely come with Nokia Maps. Which I miss, since Navigation has routed me through some weird routes before and I've rarely had a bad experience with Nokia Maps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get what your saying, Nokia doesn't have the best update reputation with Symbian as a owner of tons of symbian Nokia devices. But lately I can say that nokia has clean up their act especially with windows phone. The skyrocket might be the better spec phone but going down the memory lane Google and Samsung have failed to please their consumers that own a Nexus S/4g,Behold 2,The Original Galaxy S owners the list goes on. The choice goes down to you want a 2011/2012 high end phone or do you want 2 years of updates and support?

Stop comparing windows phones to android and especially our phone. Our only true rival is apple ios. Plain and simple

diamantericos said:
Stop comparing windows phones to android and especially our phone. Our only true rival is apple ios. Plain and simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its a discussion...on weather the platform can mature into something competitive. Nobody doubts that our phones are better in many many ways.
Long ago (well...more like 4 or 5 years ago) Symbian and Blackberry were the big dogs, people said the iPhone was just a rich person's phone that would die out because it was so expensive. And Android was a nerd's phone...
Look at where we are now...times change.

diamantericos said:
Stop comparing windows phones to android and especially our phone. Our only true rival is apple ios. Plain and simple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL Rival? I think you taking this a little too serious. Both devices are Smartphones they both are being sold in stores so I think is safe to compare the two devices. Consumers always compare cars,clothes,computers thats just the way it is.

Windows is great OS for me. For both PC and Phone. I used to own hd2 and quiet impressed with windows 6.5. Being honest i have never use 7+ of windows . I really want to try this phone.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

WP7 looks nice. And might appeal to windows users. But from my experience the development for it is horrible. I attend many Microsoft conferences and they're always begging for developers and giving away phones. And when asked if future updates will contain USB support or modem and wifi. Information. They ask "why would anyone.need that?" The average user doesn't care if he's using Linux based software or windows. But what the average user does know is "my friend bought a windows phone,it sucks. It was always freezing and a lack of apps " I actually heard this in a discussion o was having with a girlfriend who was considering a windows phone. I thought the Nokia was an awesome phone and don't believe the freezing part. But if you're looking toward the future... move away from Microsoft. Windows is the OS of the past and they know it
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium

Buy this or wait for Apollo?

I am very interested in this phone and the $20 Amazon price tag makes it even more exciting but Apollo is (reportedly) just around the corner.
My question is should I wait and get Apollo or go ahead and grab this? I can't think of a good enough reason to wait ATM but I must admit that is mostly due to the fact that I can't think of any must have features Apollo would have that Mango doesn't or that the 900's Hardware wouldn't be able to handle other than screen resolution and I am certainly not waiting 6 months or better for that.
What say you?

You know what..buy it...if you could afford it...you only live once...I bought mine off-contact. $481 w/tax.
No point waiting since we don't even know for sure when Apollo will be release...But if you want to play the waiting game...why not wait for windows phone 9 or windows phone 10....because new technology will always be out...the longer you wait...the less time you truly get to enjoy it before the next best thing hits market...
I got my Lumia 900 and enjoying it a lot...that means that when Apollo release I'll have like 6 or 7 months of joy with this phone....Of course only do this if you can afford the phone...
For a new and the top of the line Nokia phone for $481 w/tax is cheap. I bought their old Nokia 8800 for more than that...fruit for thought...

johnnybrav0 said:
You know what..buy it...if you could afford it...you only live once...I bought mine off-contact. $481 w/tax.
No point waiting since we don't even know for sure when Apollo will be release...But if you want to play the waiting game...why not wait for windows phone 9 or windows phone 10....because new technology will always be out...the longer you wait...the less time you truly get to enjoy it before the next best thing hits market...
I got my Lumia 900 and enjoying it a lot...that means that when Apollo release I'll have like 6 or 7 months of joy with this phone....Of course only do this if you can afford the phone...
For a new and the top of the line Nokia phone for $481 w/tax is cheap. I bought their old Nokia 8800 for more than that...fruit for thought...
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Click to collapse
I appreciate your opinion. Doing some basic estimations if the price holds steady on Amazon for the next month or so I can get it for $20 as compared to a standard high end phone at $200 which is a $180 discount.
Whereas if I were to buy it unsubsidized it runs $450 and a lot of of phones run $550+ unsubsidized. Therefore the $20 does seem to be a better deal.
I don't usually play the waiting game but I was just wondering if anyone knew a groundbreaking reason I should hold off.

jedivulcan said:
I'd wait for Apollo. I think the Lumia 900 is late to the game hardware that's more of a holdover until Microsoft readies Apollo (which hopefully supports larger than 800x480 displays and dual core processors) and Nokia is able to utilize any enhancements Microsoft mandates for newer Apollo devices.
I'm not saying it's a bad product, just not something I'd put down for a two year contract.
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Click to collapse
Why do I need/want a dual core processor? All videos I have seen showthe Lumia performing compareably with a single core. I agree on the resolution but I'm not holding on to my focus for another 6 months(or more) for a better resolution.
I somewhat agree on the hardware specwise but the software is performing in a manner that doesn't show it as much. I just think my excitement for the 900 is higher than my excitement would be for an Apollo device. If not than I probably would be willing to drop my unsubsidized money on it.

bmc24 said:
Why do I need/want a dual core processor? All videos I have seen showthe Lumia performing compareably with a single core. I agree on the resolution but I'm not holding on to my focus for another 6 months(or more) for a better resolution.
I somewhat agree on the hardware specwise but the software is performing in a manner that doesn't show it as much. I just think my excitement for the 900 is higher than my excitement would be for an Apollo device. If not than I probably would be willing to drop my unsubsidized money on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point. Its really easy to say, look at all the things I could do. Why not say, look at all the thing I do. The difference between the 2 is huge.
Windows Phone has only 80k apps in the marketplace. The others, hundreds of thousands. With the exception of a few notable ones, why is a weather app found in WP Marketplace not as good as one found in Android Marketplace. I guarentee you I will not scroll through 32k weather apps, to find the perfect one for me. I have my starbucks card, my facebook/twitter, my Cloud Music player, a few games I like, minus Angry Birds space. What else would I use all those apps for?
Dual/Quad core. I've not seen an Android phone, in my hands, have the battery life its expected to. Every Android I've had, plus the Razr, has failed at batterr life, for me. I never tried the MAXX. Is it the cores eating the battery? Or is it something else? Gaurentee you, Microsoft won't release the dual/quad core spec until it solves the battery life issue. Until the phone can be used, normally, for normal purposes, by normal people, non modded, a Dual or Quad core windows phone won't release. Terry Myerson is one of the more realistic GM's at Microsoft. If the phone won't last all day on a charge, then its no good. He doesn't ask if it can be fixed. He says show me it working.
Can you imagine, Angry Birds Space, in Quad Core!!!! Level 1, recharge. Level 2, Recharge.
I'm sure I do not understand the science of the Dual/Quad core. I'm sure there is a logic between all of these 'improvements', and why we need them. Someone on this forum talked about his phone in comparisons to his previous one, as a normal person should(?) think about it....
Checklist:
Does it work better than my last one> Check.
End of Checklist.

I plan on buying the white 900 when it comes out later this month. I'm going to buy it outright even though I'm due for an upgrade and save my upgrade for WP8. I'm betting the full price on a WP8 Nokia device will be higher than what the 900 is going for.

CrownSeven said:
I plan on buying the white 900 when it comes out later this month. I'm going to buy it outright even though I'm due for an upgrade and save my upgrade for WP8. I'm betting the full price on a WP8 Nokia device will be higher than what the 900 is going for.
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Click to collapse
I plan on doing something similar. I can get it for 20 on amazon with subsidized pricing so that means it is roughly 180 cheaper than a standard subsidized high end phone.
Comparing that to 450 unsubsidized to 550+ unsubsidized shows you save more money that way. Which also makes more sense because I am by convinced I'll be unequivocally upgrading
to Apollo therefore I don't want to commit my financial plns to it.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express

Save the money now, get the subsidized price, then decide if new WP8 hardware is worth buying off contract/unlocked. It's pretty simple, pay now or pay later and pay later is always better, especially given lack of info regarding WP8.

$450 is a pretty good price for the phone.
With the ~$400 difference between subsidized and unsubsidized, I guess your question should be "Do I think the difference between subsidized and unsubsidized on the WP8 phone I'll want will be > or < $400?"
I just bought it outright in hopes the difference for the WP8 flagship will be >400

ragingclue said:
$450 is a pretty good price for the phone.
With the ~$400 difference between subsidized and unsubsidized, I guess your question should be "Do I think the difference between subsidized and unsubsidized on the WP8 phone I'll want will be > or < $400?"
I just bought it outright in hopes the difference for the WP8 flagship will be >400
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The one major downside to that plan, and the reason I won't most likely do it, is because I am preemtively locking myself into upgrading into Windows 8. Which I am nowhere near convinced that I will want to.
The focus is the first handset I have held on to long enough to reach the upgrade point. I usued to upgrade once a year or more. Stating that I could reasonably see the 900 being in that category as well and if it turns out it's not I'll pay then for unsubsidized.
Most of my research says that there is a better chance that the difference will be less than 180 which is what I am looking at here ( price of 900(20) vs the price of most high end devices (200)) Whereas most devices run roughly no more than 600 or so compared to 450 or better unsubsidized.
And furthermore the likelihood of a killer feature coming out in the next year or less is highly unlikely as far as I am concerned.
Can anyone think of a rumored feature that would be that earth shattering?

kenikh said:
Save the money now, get the subsidized price, then decide if new WP8 hardware is worth buying off contract/unlocked. It's pretty simple, pay now or pay later and pay later is always better, especially given lack of info regarding WP8.
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This is the way I'm leaning. Although I will admit I wish the White I was so looking forward to wasn't gloss. Makes it seem cheaper and more prone to scratches and smudges. But no device has ever been perfect so I suppose this is no different.

bmc24 said:
Can anyone think of a rumored feature that would be that earth shattering?
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Click to collapse
Earth shattering? No. But WP8 will bring a number of things up to speed like higher resolution displays, multi-core procs, etc.
The most important things will likely be in the software running on the phone. Various accounts suggest that the tight integration of services into WP7 will be on steroids in WP8. Think along the lines of Skype integrated into the dialer, perhaps even APIs that support direct integration of third party VOIP solutions, like Tango or Google Voice.
If you assume that MSFT will get it together and roll out APIs for integrating third party services into core OS functions on the scale of the Mango API release, watch out. You can really let your imagination go crazy.

kenikh said:
Earth shattering? No. But WP8 will bring a number of things up to speed like higher resolution displays, multi-core procs, etc.
The most important things will likely be in the software running on the phone. Various accounts suggest that the tight integration of services into WP7 will be on steroids in WP8. Think along the lines of Skype integrated into the dialer, perhaps even APIs that support direct integration of third party VOIP solutions, like Tango or Google Voice.
If you assume that MSFT will get it together and roll out APIs for integrating third party services into core OS functions on the scale of the Mango API release, watch out. You can really let your imagination go crazy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And those sound enticing but not world beaters. I feel like the core argument is similar to the current generation video game consoles; meaning that they have more power than developers know what to do with and as such will take a while to come into their own.
Thank you for your knowledge. The people here are making me feel better and better about my decision.

Either way, there's no wrong decision.
+1 to all kenikh said. Hit the nail on the head, especially the if M$ get their **** together part. That's the key here. They could hit it out of the park, or just end up with an experience that's only a minute step forward as opposed to a monumental one.
WP7 is great despite all it lacks. WP8 should address the areas where WP7 is decidedly hindered.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

ragingclue said:
Either way, there's no wrong decision.
+1 to all kenikh said. Hit the nail on the head, especially the if M$ get their **** together part. That's the key here. They could hit it out of the park, or just end up with an experience that's only a minute step forward as opposed to a monumental one.
WP7 is great despite all it lacks. WP8 should address the areas where WP7 is decidedly hindered.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just curious what do you think it lacks? The resolution is the only thing I can think of that matters

All I know is that I went to an att store and played with a 900 today, and I want one bad! I have used android for years now, but wow I love that phone. And the price is great! And there will be 4G in my area next month. Need to dump my sprint contact.
Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk 2

bmc24 said:
Just curious what do you think it lacks? The resolution is the only thing I can think of that matters
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah resolution of course and an ecosystem (not their fault) with apps that can access core OS API. App integration into the OS has come a long way, but will mature further. More customization options couldn't hurt them either.
It'd be nice to have some real multitasking.
Other than that, it's all I can think of at the moment. Not a whole lot of stuff but just lime everything else, not only does it have to be done, it needs to be done right.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I'd edit my last post but the app won't let me scroll to the bottom of it LOL. Lime=like.
And with things like upped resolution will be everything behind it hardware-wise.
One thing I can't get with WP7 is proper integration of outlook when your company is running exchange server 2003, almost a deal breaker for me, but I blame my company as much as I blame M$ for that.
My most important work emails arrive with no preview line or contents. Sucks sometimes.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

ragingclue said:
Yeah resolution of course and an ecosystem (not their fault) with apps that can access core OS API. App integration into the OS has come a long way, but will mature further. More customization options couldn't hurt them either.
It'd be nice to have some real multitasking.
Other than that, it's all I can think of at the moment. Not a whole lot of stuff but just lime everything else, not only does it have to be done, it needs to be done right.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Click to collapse
I pretty much agree with all of that but not being a Machead, none of those middling features are enough to make me foam at the mouth and wait in line to get a Win8 phone. Want but don't need and not want more than my 600 dollars

bmc24 said:
I pretty much agree with all of that but not being a Machead, none of those middling features are enough to make me foam at the mouth and wait in line to get a Win8 phone. Want but don't need and not want more than my 600 dollars
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TBH, the upped resolution (assuming it doesn't sacrifice the smoothness) and proper compatibility with my Exchange server would be enough for me to justify it.
I'm not a Machead either.
But the quality and functionality of apps should improve with WP8.... Curious how well integrated it'll get with Win8.
I can't say right now whether I'll be in line for the first flagship WP8 device. Who knows, there might be another offering at that time that I'd prefer. I'm not affixed to any certain OS family, so my opinion is subject to change as they change and the offerings evolve. I can say, though, I'm glad WP finally got a flagship quality device. I'm addicted to AMOLED but have been F'd in the A enough by Samsung that I wasn't about to buy another one of those.... Then the Lumia 900 came along. Perfect.

Will you buy a WP 8?

Just want to know how the situation is. Anyone still trust in Microsoft after abandoning Windows Mobile and now this with WP?

WP7.8 is pretty reasonable update, they should have just called it "WP8 for old phones" and everything would be fine... And I have a first-gen Samsung Omnia 7 and I'm going to buy a WP8 phone around christmas As well as Microsoft Surface, those seem to be pretty awesome tablets.

Yes, I'll probably upgrade to a WP8 device when my device is two years old, assuming there's a device with a good hardware keyboard. WP8 looks good and I prefer the WP experience.
Will probably be more cautious about recommending WP to others, however, especially in the period before new OS releases.

Well at the moment I'm really pissed how I spent my saved 350€ for a device (Lumia 800) that will be "outdated" OS vise after around a year. But I guess we will have to wait what the update brings. I don't need NFC as longs as Bluetooth can be used as a substitute (or maybe even WiFi). Also, I think the new Startscreen is somehow cluttered, but I guess I have to experience the look and feel. I surely hope that some software updates like the rumored notification system will come to current devices as well. Another thing is that my contract is due in 2013 so I have to stick around with this phone anyway. And as a poor student I cannot afford a new high-end phone every year. When the contract expires I will decide based on the existing choices and reevaluate the OS. I really like Windows Phone 7 but the whole update dilemma did not increase my thrust in neither Nokia nor Microsoft. I hope they keep their word that they are committed to bring future updates to existing devices. If not, I will move to another OS. It all depends how they handle Windows Phone 7 this and next year.

I switched to android last month from 1st gen wp because i knew they wouldn't update my wp.
I told myself i'll switch to wp8 if they do something android can't do. It doesn't look like that's the case.

I got my current WP7 device for nothing so I will get a WP8 phone when released if my carrier gives me a fair selection of devices.
I hope to have 7.8 soon so I can see if I like the feel of WP8. Infact I am going to install a dual boot with Windows 8 (the release) to see if I give it a chance...

Yess definitely, I will be buying.
People need to understand, in order to progress some will be left behind. Thats just how the world works.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

So I´m stuck with an WP 7.5 that wont even get the 7.8 update and a new device is too expensive...

freddx said:
So I´m stuck with an WP 7.5 that wont even get the 7.8 update and a new device is too expensive...
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Click to collapse
Let's just hope that 7.8 is not a huge update and it's something we can install right from here (XDA).
I wouldnt want to lose my custom rom right now.
As I have more thoughts here...
I guess the way MS planned it, if you were one of the first people to get WP7, you would be out of your 2 year by fall time (around release time). Sprint and Verizon (CDMA/LTE) customers would be ending their 2 year Spring/early Summer 2013 (I got mine with out a contract so I am good) due to late releases.
I think I am disapointed in the 18 month support only. I really think it should be 24 months, as most US carriers who have contracts are 2 years. Note: their exact quote was "18 months from the time the phone is released". Just because you get a new phone here in the US, that model could be out for over 3-4 months overseas. That could suck.
As for WP 7.8 all you will get is the new start menu that you can load up with more tiles. As a first gen user, I was kind of looking forward to upgrading my Trophy but, I guess I will be waiting till fall.
If you just picked up a new 2nd gen like a Lumia 900 or Titan 2, they are nice phones but, I would feel a little screwed.
After watching the entire conf today and the way they are talking C++ and direct hardware access, all I can say is this is the GAMING phone I have been waiting for. Everything WP7 should of been.
I enjoyed my WP7 device but, I can't wait for a WP8 device

vetvito said:
Yess definitely, I will be buying.
People need to understand, in order to progress some will be left behind. Thats just how the world works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed! iOS has always left out a feature or 2 during every new major update. Android is even worse with some last generation phones not getting any updates at all. Yet when Microsoft does it, everybody complains!
I'm definitely getting a WP8 device! I can just imagine a Nokia Lumia 1000 with a 4.5" 720p ClearBlack display & dual core 1.5ghz processor!! I don't even care about the other stuff

crav4speed said:
Agreed! iOS has always left out a feature or 2 during every new major update. Android is even worse with some last generation phones not getting any updates at all. Yet when Microsoft does it, everybody complains!
I'm definitely getting a WP8 device! I can just imagine a Nokia Lumia 1000 with a 4.5" 720p screen & dual core 1.5ghz processor!! I don't even care about the other stuff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Apple does that. But Apple releases one phone per year. And you are secured that the next phone will receive 90% or more of the update.
My Lumia doesnt have 6 months of life and all it got was a new horrible start screen. Seriously, anybody liked the mini-tile? I dont think metro = square. At least, it was not. Just because that thing is a square form it's Metro UI. I wouldnt use, but its personal and I respect.
But hey, we are not receiving Skype, Multitasking, Turn-by-Turn, NT Kernel, and also, lets see if next year new apps will continue to be made thinking about WP 7 users. Or maybe 2014. Just like Android, 2.0 is already being forgotten.
If MS release at least Skype and Multitask, I will shut and smile.

Im pretty annoyed as well... I am also a student and cannot afford a new device every year. What kinda seems odd to me is that the current devices will not be upgradeable to the new nt core whilst microsoft and nokia and aims to sell low end devices (lower than current gen devices?) to compete with low end androids which presumably will be running on the nt core. Ultimately, as much as i love the looks of it, I will probably not be buying a windows 8 slate (unless they reach the sub £100 mark) so the integration features with windows phone 8 are not so important to me. The features that matter most to me would be updated bluetooth profiles (for bluetooth HID drivers), flash player (although there's no indication that WP8 does this either) and would like continued app support, better cloud/skydrive integration as well as a more complete office funtionality
---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 PM ----------
In a positive note, if microsoft really does put in the effort to compete with the low end android devices, we may see wp8 devices for as low as £60....

mikeeam said:
Yeah, Apple does that. But Apple releases one phone per year. And you are secured that the next phone will receive 90% or more of the update.
My Lumia doesnt have 6 months of life and all it got was a new horrible start screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all no matter when MSFT does a reboot someone is going to have only had their phone for 6 months. That's true of all OSes. Secondly you don't even know what the new features of Windows Phone 7.8 are going to be. So claiming it's just a start screen is just BS.

I'll probably wait 2-3 months into the next year to buy one. I'll see if app developers choose to accept WP8 as a serious platform and start making apps for Windows Phone too. If all goes well, and there's a phone release around that time that actually looks good, I'll buy it. Also somebody might port WP8 over to some of the old devices. If that happens, it will delay me buying a WP8 by a month or two.

^ developers will take it seriously, native coding means a lot!
The new kernel means a lot! The old one was dead from the beginning.
MS just put a tomb stone on RIM, and are now standing on it pointing at Google and Apple saying "You're Next".
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

I have a HTC HD7S first gen that I bought May last year. WP7.8 will be nice to get but would be disappointed to loose my custom rom hope MS offers dev release soon. Can't wait to get a tablet.
Sent from my HD7S T9295 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I bought a samsung focus, but I won't upgrade to WP8. From what they showed today it's just catching up to what is out there on the other platforms, I'll keep the old WP7 phone around and get something else and buy the Surface laptop instead.
Maybe WP9, if the come out with some killer features in the future.

So glad that I got rid of my Samsung Focus and now the proud owner of the HTC One X. I started doubting the whole WP debacle when support for my Dell Venue Pro was dropped and I started smelling a scam. However, I still held on to my Samsung Focus since I hope that they will change. Luckily I changed my mind 2 weeks ago and sold my Focus for a good price. After this, there will be a lot of frustrated users trying to dump their WP on ebay, it would be hard to sell it at a good price now.
I used to be the HD2 owner that watched every single MS news hoping that they will change their mind and provide us with the upgrade. Ah, how I wished that I learned my lesson and never give M$ another chance. Technically speaking, I was shafted not only once but twice.
I was thinking about buying a Lumia 800 to try it out but no more, MS will never AGAIN get my money. I hope they burn in hell and fail miserably for what they did to the users.
And if you are still blindly supporting M$ after this, stop for a moment and think about how you have been treated. M$ is even worse than Google. Don't ever trust them. **** you M$.

Blind was buying WP7 knowing that it was old. Knowing that it didn't support multi cores, knowing that it only supported one resolution. Thats blind.
Don't be mad for Microsoft catching up with the times.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2

vetvito said:
Blind was buying WP7 knowing that it was old. Knowing that it didn't support multi cores, knowing that it only supported one resolution. Thats blind.
Don't be mad for Microsoft catching up with the times.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry dude, looks like no one here is blind, except you. I will be seeing you around at the WP9 announcement then, when your shiny 2-month old phone is cut off support that is.