Point to this forum? - Windows Phone 7 General

With so many haters and detractors crawling out of the woodwork to bash WP7 at any sign of a positive post, is there really a point to this forum? All it does is give the naysayers a place to congregate and spread their bias (as if there wasnt enough of that already) and the mods reluctance to do anything doesnt help but if only the individual device forums existed it would be much harder for them to mount organised attacks. Time to kill this forum?

I voted no. I believe this "General" forum serves a vital role to WP7. The hate is everywhere and closing this forum would only give the haters what they want. Just like the philosophy of a church, if "sinners" come for malicious purposes, the "Word" will transform them...lol
Let the haters come. We will transform into lovers through patience and kindness.

I voted 'Yes'. Criticism is good, without criticism how do you want any product to improve? The problem is criticism isn't accepted here, if you raise any issue you're automatically an android troll or an iSheep. Anything Apple and Google do well is labelled as **** and Skydrive is like a universal medicine to every illness in the world. Sure there are indeed a couple of WP7 haters around but most people who criticise it aren't and they're still being accused of started flame wars.
The issue with this forum is people who can't admit this OS has fault, i.e. almost everyone.

I clicked no.
Because sometime, you want to discuss something related to Windows Phones , not only one device. You have no where suitable to post, except this forum.
Also, this forum keep me quite up-to-date with all Windows Phones news and tricks.
Haters are everywhere, you can't avoid them, but you need mod to take care of them.

I voted no because there are few other places on XDA to discuss WP7. BTW, I enjoy heathy and constructuve debate, but far too often a thread is opened only to be flooded with WP7 is crap posts that are neither helpful nor constructive criticism.

No
I voted No.
This forum is far more active for me than the HD7 forum. Yes it gets annoying when people start trolling, which is a different level to general complaints about the OS. At the end of the day they are us idiots of the other end of cyber-space. Mythical creatures not to be taken seriously.
For example, Peew971 has many valid complaints about the OS, but I do not class him (you) as a troll at all.
Life does not revolve around consumer products and shouldnt be taken so seriously, but for some reason people get so worked up about it. I wonder how many people on WP7 complained about their previous OS, hence why they adopted WP7.
I personally joined XDA with my arrival of the HD2. I loved it. Those were the golden years, but I found myself flashing WInMo ROMs too often. Then I had the dual-booted WinMo/Andriod. Then got bored and finally flashed with Gingerbread, completely removing WinMo. I found Gingerbread to be a disappointing downgrade to the Desire HD ROM I had...however, did I care...nope...because I was days away from getting rid of the phone and playing with the HD7.

I voted "No" as well.
Where else would I get a good laugh from jealous Android and iOS fanboys? Because we all know they secretly wish for live tiles, zune and the people hub but they just won't admit it!!
And just in case anyone was wondering... yes, that was sarcasm

Peew971 said:
I voted 'Yes'. Criticism is good, without criticism how do you want any product to improve? The problem is criticism isn't accepted here, if you raise any issue you're automatically an android troll or an iSheep. Anything Apple and Google do well is labelled as **** and Skydrive is like a universal medicine to every illness in the world. Sure there are indeed a couple of WP7 haters around but most people who criticise it aren't and they're still being accused of started flame wars.
The issue with this forum is people who can't admit this OS has fault, i.e. almost everyone.
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There's a huge difference between criticism and the BS posted by the core haters here. The missing features are always highlighted while the unique things WP7 does are downplayed and brushed aside. Plus continuously calling the OS beta, crap and deliberately ignoring real problems that have affected its growth like poor marketing and biased sales reps and instead just concentrating on the numbers alone dont encourage discussion. Its always how WP7 is behind, android does this, blah, blah, blah but the parts that WP7 owners enjoy like the design, smoothness, speed, Xbox, Office, deep linking, double sided tiles, Zune player and other features are dismissed. WP7 is the only OS that is being held up to be perfect from its release and its been a constant bash-fest ever since its release.

Voted no. We need good moderating. The thing is we just don't get pure WP discussions. In nearly every thread Android and iOS are beeing mentioned so everytime it's more like WP7 vs Android/iOS. I just want a pure WP forum without those dumb comparisons and to get rid of those people who cannot accept that there are people who like WP especially those who don't own a WP device and throwing things into threads like "android is the best" whatever. I really cannot stand those people.

You're absolutely right about the mods refusing to do a damn thing. eric, while completely insane and overly fanboyish, did have valid points in pointing out that people in this section are complete dickheads. I got a forum warning thing for calling another member out on his bull****, yet the mod repeatedly allowed him to go at other users, in that thread and others, I'm assuming just because he was spreading negative information. This section has become an area that I love, but hate to come here just because I know every thread, even ones titled "Come in here and say what you love about WP7" will ultimately have some idiot come in and say "nothing, Android is superior to the Polish crowd"

Peew971 said:
I voted 'Yes'. Criticism is good, without criticism how do you want any product to improve? The problem is criticism isn't accepted here, if you raise any issue you're automatically an android troll or an iSheep. Anything Apple and Google do well is labelled as **** and Skydrive is like a universal medicine to every illness in the world. Sure there are indeed a couple of WP7 haters around but most people who criticise it aren't and they're still being accused of started flame wars.
The issue with this forum is people who can't admit this OS has fault, i.e. almost everyone.
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This seems to be the impression I get. I was, or should say still am, debating the move. I want to see what the people say, good and bad, but at times the feedback / comments seem more polarizing than the Android banter. I get it's still growing, and with a limited user base (which naturally results in the bigger fans being more vocal) you are going to have the more swinging opinions being voiced. I'm still trying to understand all this constructive criticism I am seeing (issues I, and would think many, would find fault in) being dismissed for some silly reasons. I hear simple **** being brushed off for the sake of a liquid bm-style UI experience.
There appears to be a few glaring issues, and more than a few minor niggles, that are dismissed on the account of said poster not finding a need for this. Maybe it's the number of users to posters here, but I've seen some more legitimate critiquing and discussion within the Android camp. And that's saying something, considering Android users seem to be the fastest to sling the "****."
Sent from m-IUI

Related

Some more update hype

Here is some more update hype just like the earlier hype that caused a lot of concern among WP7 users. Hype or misreporting? Nevertheless, it is reports like this that are causing a lot of anxious people to be annoyed with MS, myself included. This is a quote from Daily Tech. A link to the full story is also provided:
"Second, like Android, Microsoft is pursuing an aggressive update schedule, which should help it. It plans to deliver a pair of major updates this spring, which will bring customers copy/paste and multi-tasking. These updates will "catch it up" with its competitors, so to speak. This is definitely a positive for Microsoft, and should greatly help the platform's image."
Gadgets The Good, The Bad: Windows Phone 7 Moved 2 Million Units in Q4 2010
Sorry but without an official statement to the fact, why would anyone take this seriously? Without cold, hard facts this is just another rumour, and no one in their right mind would take this as MS's official stance. Anyone who believes everything they read on the internet, more fool them and if you have to go searching to find this info it puts it into even more doubt.
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
Misreporting.
People are taking the same news and statements and trying to read into it, then report it as news.
z33dev33l said:
Do you spend your time hunting for WP7 defamatory information just so you can troll the forums? I mean if you hate it so bad stop wishing for android for it which wont happen and buy an android device. Enjoy the lag.
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I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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And messages posted to any open venue, such as a newsgroup, a web-based board, an AOL discussion forum or a chat room, are seldom truly harassing unless they're forged to appear to come from you or contain direct threats or libelous statements.
I did not state in any way that you were in fact committing this act nor did I threaten you in any way. Please do not throw interpretations around in place of the law to avoid answering. If you so choose not to respond to my inquiry that is your right and I respect that but do not act as though it is going to turn into a threat of legal action because that's just, well, depressing.
MartyLK said:
I'd appreciate you getting a clue and stop harassing me over stuff I AM NOT doing. According to my websites abut online harassment and abuse, I give you this warning: Do not say another word to me.
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Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Same goes for you. You had no useful intention for saying what you said. If you only want to spread discontent and harm, I warn you: Do not say another word to me.
The Daily Tech story has been updated with a response from MS:
"Update: Thur. 1/27/2011 2:50 p.m. -
We reached out to our Microsoft press contact for more information concerning some news networks' negative depiction of this sales data and update on the phantom data issue. While the spokesperson did not provide us with answers to our specific questions, as requested, they did offer us a general statement.
They emphasized the following metrics:
• Early research indicates 93% of customers worldwide are satisfied with Windows Phone 7, and 90% would recommend to others.
• Developer engagement is excellent with customers getting access to an average of 100 new apps a day and more than 6,500 apps overall on Marketplace.
• Over 2MM licenses sold to OEMs worldwide.
And they add, "Sales are an important measure of success, but for a new platform customer satisfaction and active developer investment can be even more important leading indicators of long-term success.These early signs of satisfaction from customers and developers are reason to be bullish about the foundation for long-term success for Windows Phone 7."
We will again, try to provide an update as soon as Microsoft offers more specifics on the data usage issues that are afflicting some WP7 users."
Main link
nova hands said:
Laugh. Out. Loud.
You shouldn't post on forums if you can't handle a little flak here and there. Its not like he's threatening you physically or mentally, and he's not spreading libel. Don't hide behind a threat like that. It looks petty at best.
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Eh, I remember when I was a kid we didn't threaten legal action without foundation... or at all... all these new laws paired with kids who don't get outside much have lead to a much weaker generation as a whole. I'm glad I grew up in an era where even the teens and adults arent saying "I'm going to tell on you." for absolutely no reason...
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
doministry said:
Equally some of you have a basic problem understanding many customers are dissatisfied with WP7. And this "90% consumer satisfaction" is as true as worthless crap. I mean these general surveys are nothing.
By the way, do some of you work for MS? You behave like the multibillion giant needs your defence? Give me me a break.
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That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
emigrating said:
I do find the figure of 93% being extremely high, but not completely unreasonable. Just looking at my own friends and relatives, whom are mostly average consumers - that is, they come to me for advise on things technical - none have so far come back and given me crap about the piece of **** phone I convinced them to buy, and let me tell you, they would have given me grief about it if they weren't satisfied. I still remember the HDDVD vs BluRay war, where I was clearly on the losing side.
It's still a hard one though, because as you say it's after using the OS for some time you really get the feeling for those little niggly things that are really wrong about it, and due to a huge shortage of devices locally (for weeks after launch) many of the people I know haven't had them for more than perhaps a month to six weeks so far. I dunno though, I picked up a HD7 at launch, didn't like it, got a Omnia 7 which I returned as it only had 8GB storage and no SD slot and finally a 16GB Omnia 7 - point is, I've used the OS since launch (and sort of before by use of the emulator and dev devices) in some capacity or another and really I think it took less than a week for me to realise everything that was wrong with it. To the best of my recollection nothing has cropped up in the weeks or months since, that I hadn't already noticed and accepted.
Now, as an old WM user do I find the OS to be lacking in certain aspects? Sure I do, but what they've delivered they've generally delivered really well. It's given me what no WM or Android phone could - an experience that just works, just like the iPhone (and had the iPhone been available on different hardware I may still have been an iPhone user). Of course I am looking forward to the day we can utilize the camera API on WP7, or the day we can integrate the users contacts into our apps. Likewise I'm looking forward to certain bugs being fixed and promised features to become available, but if I was asked if I liked the platform as is I would have to say yes, Yes I do.
If you feel the lack of functionality is so bad, you're simply chosen the wrong OS and you would probably be much better off using Android or WM (which I personally preferred out of the two). You're never going to get a product that fits everyone in every way possible - apart from perhaps in North Korea where you really don't have a choice
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LOL...I've had that experience myself with things I recommended. Then I go running for cover. Ewww...just remembered the $400 I talked my brother into spending on the Palm Treo 680...the unlocked one - not carrier supported. We both bought one when they first came out and turned out to be the worst pile of doo we ever threw money at. I will never live that down. When the iPhone came out, not too long after the Treo 680, I was praising it to my brother but didn't dare recommend it...lol.
I have praised WP7 to him. He has yet to know how I currently feel about it, though. I still like the OS as a skeleton. One which has potential. But I certainly hope MS won't "kin" us all.
Honestly, I think if you are on this phone. You have "higher" expectations for the platform than average users would. In the tech community satisfaction may be mediocre, but with the everyday community. People love this platform.
MartyLK said:
That's the idea I get. I know I and a number of people I know aren't satisfied with WP7. I do recognize, though, that I and a lot of people liked WP7 up front and believe MS might be taking that into account rather than the continued use of WP7. It's when people have used the OS for a while when they become unsatisfied.
Lets keeps things on topic, please.
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Dude, you were all for WP7 until you were against it. What gives?
You chose to be a beta tester, you did, no one forced you to give money away.
Yeah it sucks that the update isn't here yet but it was YOU who chose to believe the hype and rumors that it was coming in January.
When it comes down to it, WP7 as is is a complete smartphone OS.
Unfortunaely for MS, there are other OSes out there that have more features have grown accustomed to having, some of these features were even on their previous OS.
Let me tell you something though, you like the features on the other OSes so much? Why the hell didn't you buy a phone with one of those OSes instead of making threads that make you sound like countless other self-entitled brats in the world today?
Damn, learn a little patience and maybe, just maybe, you'll be rewarded for it. Or don't, a be viewed as a brat, your choice!
Well it's an informative thread, so I will not delete it.
But as only generates flames, I'm closing.

The WP7 forums are more filled with people who hate WP7 than people who like it.

I am fully aware that the WP7 updates thusfar have been quite terrible but it now seems that there are more people posting here purely for the sake of bashing WP7 than ever. Of course when it is addressed most of them say "I run it on my blahblah and it's nice but I just wish it could be better." Why not mention some of those nice points. The phone may not have a billion different settings to change and all the different options other OSes have but what it does do it does better than any other OS out there and I'll take quality over quantity any day. The only complaint I've had thusfar about WP7 and the only thing I dislike about it is the update system, but I can look past it as after switching to WP7 every other OS just feels lesser. WP7 has some flaws but the majority, aside from multi-tasking, are heavily exaggerated. I know some people want to stream pandora and text and I'm sure that sucks but we all knew that was there when we got the device and Microsoft is addressing the issue. I just want to know, why spend most of your time lounging around a forum for something you so greatly dislike? I mean, I don't visit the android forums and post hate messages there. Are some people just that wanton to hate?
1. the vocal and critical few on the internet do not represent the numbers out in the real world.
2. it's human nature to stay silent when all is good, but raise hell when it's not.
Michael.
Like Mike above me said, the trolls are out there to do exactly what you're witnessing on these forums.
And no one attracts more trolls than Microsoft.
Put two and two together and you get this
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
vangrieg said:
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
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That's me! Ex WM user, and chef.
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
vangrieg said:
Apart from rabid Android fanboys who are very vocal all over the internet and generally are overyelling Apple fanboys by a big margin, this particular forum also has many ex-WM users who are frustrated because WP7 isn't WM7. So you see lots of negativity here.
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and then you have the classic "fanboy" guy who just calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a "fanboy" of something, ignoring all the legitimate reasons why an OS might just might be better than WP7.
of course because I hate McDonald's I'm a BK fanboy, and because I like camel more than marlboro, I guess I'm just a camel fanboy who is just hating on the M man.
orangekid said:
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
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I couldn't have said it better myself. I actually wouldn't have bothered to say it myself. But since you said, I'll back it up. WP7 owner here, and my posting history is full of positive sayings about WP7. But, since I'm not a fanboy or loyalist and am rational minded, my posting history is also full of negative things about WP7.
I would rather read from a poster who isn't afraid to tell the truth of the matter; who won't cow down to the fanboys or loyalist...who just adore causing all kinds of trouble and having innocent people labeled negative things. In a situation like that, when they expect me to back off, I charge full steam ahead and ram right through all of the bull****. That's my nature.
Just to clarify, my point isn't that everyone who criticizes WP7 is an Android fanboy, I never said that. There are a lot of fanboys though, and there's a lot of frustration and even anger among ex-WM users, and this adds a lot of negativity. I myself am an ex-WM user, cooked my own ROMs and even developed a utility for WM once.
orangekid said:
well a lot of the people "hating" are WP7 owners, so your argument goes out the window, what do they have to gain by sharing their experience and warning others not to make the same mistake and jump on a beta OS a year out of a real update?
The arguments for and against WP7 are equally valid, take a look at the bugs thread for what problems people have. That's cool that you like your device but some people looking for a new device want multitasking, want to change the UI, want folders, want mounted storage, they want free apps that don't suck, some even want tethering, some want a front facing camera, some want to save camera settings, others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off, some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept), others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset, the list never ends.
The reason it seems people are here to rain on your parade is because there are so many posts about "WP7 is so awesome, better than any other OS" and that crazy ass thread about let's all love and worship MS, what the hell was that? Then there's the "I don't care if my phone can't do anything, it's sleek and fast and works as a phone" posts.
I know I seem like a buzz-kill troll, but the truth is I actually LIKE wp7 a lot, it's just you have to admit it's a work-in-progress that is missing so many things that Android and iOS have to offer, I could never in good conscience tell someone to get a WP7 over an iPhone or Android, but that's the way it goes with a brand new OS.
Let's talk in a year or two when the OS has had time to mature and grow, then you will see less threads and posts like this. People aren't as malevolent as you think, the whole "WP7 is the best thing in the history of ever" threads are just laughable and some of us don't mind coming in to point that out.
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I readily admit that it's a work in progress but so is any other OS. I know that some of the things on WP7 are more prominent (aside from android's UI... yeesh) but it's no reason for a lot of people to write it off as a whole. As for the points you said it needed;
multitasking- Coming in Mango, only time I've found it to be a burden was before my zune pass when I streamed slacker.
want to change the UI- I change the colors on mine nearly daily. iPhone is not supposed to have much alteration on it's UI either
want folders- Hubs seems more sensible in my opinion and the apps in the long list are so much easier to find because I can flick my thumb once and catch the app by alphabetical order without it being 4x4.
want mounted storage-Likely not happening and truthfully I don't want it to because that would enable a lot of hacking capability and I personally don't want to see apps easily pirated like they are on android and iphone.
they want free apps that don't suck- I think the free apps on here beat the hell out of free apps on most mobile OSes. iPhones free apps are pretty limited. I guess if you are comparing to android though there's no real point in making people pay for apps because you can get any app you want for free. The only way to go on there is ad supported.
some even want tethering- I never personally got the point in this especially since most cellphone providers now have data caps.
some want a front facing camera- This would be nice, I know Microsoft demoed a video chat app at one convention or another way back in like January.
some want to save camera settings-Eh, I would like it but I see why they went the way they did. If I have my camera set for fluorescent light then I go home and my son decides to walk for the first time I don't want to pull out the camera, adjust the settings, go back, and then take pictures likely missing the moment.
others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off- Never really occurred to me...
some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept)-Meh, it appeals to some but in all actuality that kind of stuff just feels sort of juvenile.
others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset- I know, from what I heard this was supposed to come alongside NoDo but I'm not seeing anything thusfar.
orangekid said:
and then you have the classic "fanboy" guy who just calls anyone who doesn't agree with him a "fanboy" of something, ignoring all the legitimate reasons why an OS might just might be better than WP7.
of course because I hate McDonald's I'm a BK fanboy, and because I like camel more than marlboro, I guess I'm just a camel fanboy who is just hating on the M man.
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Hating BK doesn't make you a McD Fanboy, unless.... you go to a BK, run up and down the aisles calling all those eating Whoppers losers because Whoppers aren't as cool as the Big Mac because the Big Mac's got three buns. Any possible discussion of the relative merits of both burgers and establishments are then typically deflected to another specious argument about how the Ronald is cool and the King is creepy. Why are you even in a BK if you hate them so much? Anytime someone feverishly professes a dislike for one platform/every other platform because it’s not a cool as the one they have, they are Fanboys. Otherwise, why invest so much energy putting BK down. Just eat your Big Mac and move on.
munkeyphyst said:
Hating BK doesn't make you a McD Fanboy, unless.... you go to a BK, run up and down the aisles calling all those eating Whoppers losers because Whoppers aren't as cool as the Big Mac because the Big Mac's got three buns. Any possible discussion of the relative merits of both burgers and establishments are then typically deflected to another specious argument about how the Ronald is cool and the King is creepy. Why are you even in a BK if you hate them so much? Anytime someone feverishly professes a dislike for one platform/every other platform because it’s not a cool as the one they have, they are Fanboys. Otherwise, why invest so much energy putting BK down. Just eat your Big Mac and move on.
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you're right, and no one here is really doing that, just pointing out some missing features and frustrations.
If McD didn't have buns on their burgers and this was a burger forum, I'd point out that you may want some BK because they have buns, that's all.
vangrieg said:
Just to clarify, my point isn't that everyone who criticizes WP7 is an Android fanboy, I never said that. There are a lot of fanboys though, and there's a lot of frustration and even anger among ex-WM users, and this adds a lot of negativity. I myself am an ex-WM user, cooked my own ROMs and even developed a utility for WM once.
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I got the wrong impression then, my post was more towards the boy who cried fanboy all the time. I too am from WM and cooked my own ROMs back in the Diamond days, then HD2, and I can see your point about how this would add some negativity when you come from such a platform as that to the closed off can't-change-**** attitude of WP7
Human Nature
I go all the way back to MS-Dos and PC-Dos and have been an MS user that entire time. It has been a love/hate relationship at times, well, maybe hate is too strong a word. Frustration might be better. Most people have been with MS at some time in their lives and probably have been frustrated from time to time. This update fiasco falls into the category of "I want this to succeed but, damn, it's the same old MS shooting themselves in the foot and working like hell to make sure this fails". We are just frustrated is all. Their success in keeping us as customers for so long just assures that we have all experienced some sort of frustration.
The sad thing about this whole update fiasco is that someone at MS actually DESIGNED this process, believed it was a good idea, committed it to a contract with carriers, and then signed off on it, to provide users with this wonderful, world class experience. It provides us with another example of the caliber of people who manage these companies. And I like MS!!!!! They just need to get out of their own way.
It's not so much an update fiasco as typical Microsoft PR bleeding, IMO. But they've always been miserably bad at it.
orangekid said:
I got the wrong impression then, my post was more towards the boy who cried fanboy all the time. I too am from WM and cooked my own ROMs back in the Diamond days, then HD2, and I can see your point about how this would add some negativity when you come from such a platform as that to the closed off can't-change-**** attitude of WP7
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I came to WP7 via iPhone so I'm much more tolerant with regard to restrictions and such stuff. I've also learned to appreciate the "consumer electronics" grade quality, so pretty much accepted the rigidness as the better of the two options. It's not for everyone and of course not for everyone here, but there certainly is simething in the idea.
Otherwise, it's hard to disagree that it does have a ton of drawbacks and even though I'm very satisfied with my Mozart I never recommend it to friends and family who come to me for smartphone advice.
That's my attitude towards WP7 in a nutshell. Yet I'm really annoyed that it's almost impossible to find a thread here without hate posts in it.
z33dev33l said:
I readily admit that it's a work in progress but so is any other OS. I know that some of the things on WP7 are more prominent (aside from android's UI... yeesh) but it's no reason for a lot of people to write it off as a whole. As for the points you said it needed;
multitasking- Coming in Mango, only time I've found it to be a burden was before my zune pass when I streamed slacker.
want to change the UI- I change the colors on mine nearly daily. iPhone is not supposed to have much alteration on it's UI either
want folders- Hubs seems more sensible in my opinion and the apps in the long list are so much easier to find because I can flick my thumb once and catch the app by alphabetical order without it being 4x4.
want mounted storage-Likely not happening and truthfully I don't want it to because that would enable a lot of hacking capability and I personally don't want to see apps easily pirated like they are on android and iphone.
they want free apps that don't suck- I think the free apps on here beat the hell out of free apps on most mobile OSes. iPhones free apps are pretty limited. I guess if you are comparing to android though there's no real point in making people pay for apps because you can get any app you want for free. The only way to go on there is ad supported.
some even want tethering- I never personally got the point in this especially since most cellphone providers now have data caps.
some want a front facing camera- This would be nice, I know Microsoft demoed a video chat app at one convention or another way back in like January.
some want to save camera settings-Eh, I would like it but I see why they went the way they did. If I have my camera set for fluorescent light then I go home and my son decides to walk for the first time I don't want to pull out the camera, adjust the settings, go back, and then take pictures likely missing the moment.
others might want that stupid camera shutter turned off- Never really occurred to me...
some might even want to load their own ringtones (what a concept)-Meh, it appeals to some but in all actuality that kind of stuff just feels sort of juvenile.
others might want to be able to back up their apps and data on a hard-reset- I know, from what I heard this was supposed to come alongside NoDo but I'm not seeing anything thusfar.
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Yeah, these posts create as much hate as beeing fanboy.
You see, what you write here is that because YOU don't need something thus it's just stupid or pointless.
The problem is modern OS of any kind today supports MANY DIFFERENT preferences. It supports many different needs, whether you're a "geek" or typical "consumer. You don't like custom rings? So don't use them! It's not only about what you like. It's about general audience.
The problem with WP7 - the biggest one - is that it's not versatile at all.
It's designed to be one way. And however you will try again to convince me that WP7 is so customizable, indeed - it's not. The limitations designed here are horrible.
The upcoming update - NoDo - is not going to resolve anything besides c & p.
And the Mango, well - if it would be April I would say "I'm in!".
But it will be December. Or later.
I just realized it's the first smartphone for 6 years I have which I can't take alone for - let's say - 2 weeks without bringing my laptop together. There are so so many things WP7 is refusing to do. And I even have no guarantee of having them ever back.
I am the user of WP7. Use it all the time. I always have one smartphone as a "super agent". I'm used to the fact that a pocket device almost completely replaces PC when needed. WP7 doesn't do that.
I just discovered few days ago that I really don't like it. I loved it for 3 months - smooth, simple, sexy. But it's half empty inside. This system is really really stupid right now. I could spend huge amount of space here naming these lacks which currently are very annoying.
I was using Android for few weeks only. Didn't really like those flashy graphics so I've chosen WP7, a perfect UI and a promise of a super ecosystem.
But now I see clearly - maybe it will happen next year, maybe.
But maybe not. Current Android 2.3 is exactly what WM was supposed to be, sorry to say that. I can stand those layers of colours and shapes, because I will be able to do whatever I want and more. Yes, a step forward from WM. WP7 makes it all dumber.
So I'm not selling my WP7 just yet but I'm getting Android in 2 weeks about.
Will see how how it goes...
As for WP7 I really hoped all this buzz and amazing PROMISE this OS initially gives will be fulfilled soon. Now a huge disappointment.
I haven't read the posts before mine but I would say most of the people hating on WP7 are owners who are pissed off about the bugs, lack of updates and lack of communication. I find this fair.
orangekid said:
you're right, and no one here is really doing that, just pointing out some missing features and frustrations.
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Agreed. If you bought a BK burger that didn't have buns, and you wanted buns
you have a right to complain.
orangekid said:
If McD didn't have buns on their burgers and this was a burger forum, I'd point out that you may want some BK because they have buns, that's all.
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but now you're assuming that I want buns
munkeyphyst said:
Agreed. If you bought a BK burger that didn't have buns, and you wanted buns
you have a right to complain.
but now you're assuming that I want buns
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But if you don't want buns, you have a complaint

The current state of XDA

I've been a fan of this site for a long time. I don't post too much, but I have gained much information here. This site has been an invaluable part of my Android hobby. I own 5 Android phones and a Motorola Xoom tablet, and thanks to XDA they are all rooted with custom roms and I use each one confidently. This site is full of great information and helpful people.
However, as of late, XDA seems to be putting out a bad vibe to many of its users. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms. They make demands of developers that will benefit only themselves. Instead of helping new members find the info they are seeking, they'd rather berate and belittle them publicly. The act superior to anyone asking a question. And on and on(trying not to write a book here). I am watching as developers that have contributed so much be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by elitist, rude "veteran" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA.
We cannot blame the site admin or mods, though i do hope to see them push the site in a different direction soon. It is on our back, the users of XDA. We are XDA. We need to remember that the devs are doing what they do for free, and for Android as a whole, not us as individuals. What happened to the great sense of community with Android. IMO, that was one of the best aspects of being involved with Android. There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I hope to see Android become a community again, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
abn75 said:
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
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Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
JimmyMcGee said:
Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
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Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
chopper the dog said:
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
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Good point indeed.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
andr0id23 said:
Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
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No Sir I appreciate your Post. abn has been complaining about our inaction for a while and we ARE looking to improve and it just gets a little old hearing the same complaint over and over when you are working to make this a Quality Forum everyone, including us, wants it to be. I do apologize for my perhaps over-reaction, but it is hard to be constantly beat up on. Yes, us Mods/Admins do deserve some blame. But we have recognized it and we are trying to resolve the issue.
We all just do our best.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
you need to consider that back in its earlier days, XDA was all about this lil' group of people with WinMo devices learning to rip their mobile OSes apart. as the site grew in size and popularity, more devs came in along with more end-users who feed upon the products of their kitchen. once the android explosion began, there was no other way around the fact that a multitude of users would flood in where as the number of devs coming in would be far smaller.
i still remember just over a year back when i got to cooking my own WinMo ROM the community was growing but there were still devs around where ever you looked ready to guide and help around but now that the site's more popular than ever people flock here expecting miracles and are not disappointed either. it's so addictive that you have to stick around for more. but sadly the number of devs don't grows as fast as their end-user counterparts. that's why you see this problem today. we need the newer member to be willing to learn on their own, being patient with the progress of other devs and most importantly...READING.
just my two cents.
Open tech forums are always ripe for attrition due to many reasons.
The question here is, do we cater to the users or do we cater to the developers? It's pretty obvious that without developers, XDA wouldn't be much of anything.
It's my opinion that the 'elitist' attitude which you speak of from the senior members is something that SHOULD be done, as their point is to protect the developers from being inundated with trivial questions and not detailed bug reports.
Kyphur, another XDA Moderator, had this to say back in 2008 (in a similar thread) when we were a bit smaller, and it still holds true:
kyphur said:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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I think that there are problems here at XDA that are there partially because of the rather loose rules we have set in place.
Sure, the internet, like most places in our society, is one that is supposed to promote freedom of speech. But there is a monumental difference between debating and being immature. A large proportion of the members here grown adults, but it really, really doesn't seem anything remotely close to that quite a lot of the time. Quite a lot of "you ****ing prick"s and the like being thrown about between members. Quite frankly, it's ridiculous, like a bunch of rather scummy 13 year olds.
Part of that does seem to come from the allowance of swearing on the forums; not saying don't swear, because believe me, I'm the last person who'd say that...but I don't on here, merely because it's not the swearing or inappropriate language itself that causes the problem, but the behaviour that naturally comes with it. Many forums are banning the discussion of provocative topics such as Mac vs. PC, iOS vs Android etc. Obviously, this being a mobile device forum, that can't be done here, but there needs to be some moderator control over that. All because people can't help but be immature about it...
That's the worst bit of it.
As for developer vs. end-user, just look at the market now, as well as what the developers here are doing. Smartphones are now more accesible, and the variety between the OSs at their core is much smaller than it used to be. The developers are working hard to make the process of rooting, jailbreaking, any kind of software modification easier for the more technically inept user.
Developers can't expect this forum to stay a developer community if they are going to make their creations so easy to use So experienced users need to accept that XDA has now moved away from being what it's used to be. They need to try and be accomodating to less technical users.
However, the biggest problem here now are probably newer users. They simply don't read or search. Answers are having to be repeated over and over again, even when everything is in the OP...many users need to spend time reading, and they'll realise that a lot of the answers aren't even technical; just a bit of common sense and logical thinking and you'll get the answers you'll need.
In a way, a simple way of post once, sticky once, force end users to read it, and we'll get somewhere.
A lot of good posts here. I tried to word my OP carefully as to not point fingers. Or at least not to lay blame on any one group of people. And I can't claim to know the whole story as while I own a handful of Android devices, that is only but a small part of this site as a whole. I don't come close to visiting all the forums. I really like XDA. From what I see, it is one of the rare sites where thread, where i frequent, often stay on topic. This is due in part to the mods, and in part to the users directing newer members by telling them this isn't the right place to post, linking to an appropriate thread, or just giving a quick answer. However, it's when people start getting angry and calling other people out for not knowing something, being rude, blah blah blah, that I am seeing more of. If all someone has to say is "use the fu**ing search", or "wrong spot noob", there is really no reason to post anything at all. That isn't helping anyone. There are better ways of going about it.
And I think we all have to admit, the days of only the more technical users rooting and modding are coming to an end. Devs are making it easier, one click methods are popping up all over the place, everything is automated, etc. People no long need to learn what is going on when they root their devices. While I enjoy having that knowledge and using the abd method of rooting when there is a one click available, others certainly will not, and they often don't need to. Maybe this isn't the best decision in many of our eyes, but tt is a reality now. More and more people are hacking/modding/rooting every day, and many of them have not even used a command line. I mean hell, there is even an "adb for dummies program" that will install and set up adb for you in one click now!
Again, not point fingers, but I am saddened to see so many people arguing, so many snide, rude responses, people being so demanding and self-serving, and devs leaving the site. I realize that the site is bigger than ever, and that mods do this for free and don't want to waste time being "rudeness police". I don't have all the answers, just something Ive noticed for awhile now. Glad to hear the mods are working on it as well as they can. I know they don't want to see developers leaving. Let's face it, some of these developers have quite a following! Also, sorry they have to hear the same complaints over and over again, but, as I said, I'm glad they are looking into it(if there is even anything that can be done, and I thanks the mods, admin, devs, and users for making this such a great place to learn and share!
I am one million percent in agreement with this topic, but I think the blame is not xda per se... Now, this is MY OPINION, but the problem is as mentioned before, our current society... I said something similar on aamikam's MikG thread on the Evo forum, this is the result of the 21st century, where technology has made mankind do anything anywhere anytime with only a click, and the kids and teens of today are raised in this world of now, so is in their nature to have that state of mind, "I want this now"; and I know this is not all the world, but in general, this is the new way of life on this century, the age of now...
We can also blame the new parents of this era, the average parent now is in their mid 20s to 30s, low 40s and in general, are allowing their kids more privileges and liberties than they had just because "at your age I couldn't do it, but I'll let you do it, not like your grandpas who didn't allowed me do anything at all" and so on and so forth...
Anyway, just wanted to say something about this, good nite all..!

You guys need to take a good look in the mirror

I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
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+1000 to this...
well said....just mentioned all the things I want to say....
pillsburydoughman said:
Some people take these things a little too seriously. If you don't like the phone, get another phone. Complaining here won't solve anything since we aren't the developers and Microsoft does what they think is best.
Arguing whether an os needs dual-core or not is pretty much irrelevant since neither you nor I can do jack **** about it.
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Click to collapse
You missed the OP's point. Totally.
The customer is king. If customers demand x, y or z, then it is an extremely stupid manufacturer who doesn't provide it. Ergo, if 'we' want dual core (which MS has already said is coming in 2012), we better damned well get it. Or else MS will pay the price.
WP users who are resistant to change are nothing more than luddites, living in a state of perpetual denial. The same kind of morons who used to believe the earth was flat (and probably still do). It is the innovators and users who are keen to work with MS to develop the best product possible which will yield the most dividend.
The other users? Those who want to keep the status quo? Yes, it is people as the OP described who are WP's biggest problem. You are the ones who stifle innovation. You are the ones who will help slowly drive WP into the dust.
Do us all a favour and just post nothing if you don't want to see change. You will not be missed.
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Wow, Thats quite a rant. Personally I like android and ios (though this is so overpriced dont get me started as with all things apple) BUT I love WP7 and i am not ashamed to defend it esp when things like specs get compared. The reason we get ansi when you talk duel core is because its argued like android and ios have it so they must instantly run better when the reality is they dont and it makes little effect but drain the batter. However if we say this in reply we are being antagonistic and argumentative when in reality its just a fact duel core is not needed and kills batterys. That is just one example i will give as you did go on. I will say this though I am all for suggestions but dont blame us for being protective when Android fanbois come in here just to slate it.
pillsburydoughman said:
And you missed my point entirely. Arguing with other customers whether change is need is pointless. If you want get the point across go to the microsoft forums and give your feedback directly to them.
What we have here is people who are not happy with windows phone arguing with others who are happy with it. If you dislike it give your feedback directly to Microsoft, not us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
nobnut said:
What?
Re-read the OP and try and understand what is being said in this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seems you don't understand what the post is about.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can criticize, but at some point if that's all you are doing maybe you should reevaluate why you are still here.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You want dual core. I don't think it needs it. We can argue all day, in the end if it bother's you that much take your complaints to Microsoft.
Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I see is someone who wants to rant and complain and criticize in every post. Then you turn around and call it one of the worst places on the internet. Look in that mirror buddy.
Bless you. I can see you are trying.
By the way, can you please edit your last post to credit those statements to the right users. You have demonstrated your inability to understand the English language. At least try and attribute the correct quotes to the correct users so that others don't become as confused as you clearly are.
I'm glad that shut you up. seeing how you have nothing relevant to add
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
OP, you have no idea what the difference between "criticism" and "relentless whining and *****ing" is; 99% of your posts fall in the latter category. Everything to you is FAIL, or useless, or MS/Nokia/insert WP manufacturer here is stupid and they don't know what they are doing according to you.
This is a DISCUSSION forum about WP7, not the complaint counter. You bring extremely little to every discussion in this forum that you enter, as you constantly focus on issues that YOU seem to see as negative and if anyone dare disagrees with you, then they are braindead sheep that are protecting Microsoft.
Your shtick has gotten old, really fast. It's pretty obvious that you have a severe case of buyer's remorse, so I strongly suggest you bite the bullet, sell your WP7 handset at a loss and get into a different mobile OS and chalk this up as a learning experience. Don't bother saying that you actually like WP7 but want to see blah, blah, blah because YOU DO NOTHING BUT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. If you even were around a 50/50 ratio as far as complimentary or insightful posts to your complaining posts, one MIGHT be able to believe that you do have some affection for WP7 somewhere.
But you don't come anywhere close to 50/50. You almost exclusively complain about WP7, so it really truly begs the question:
WHY DO YOU EVEN OWN A WP7 PHONE AND WHY WOULD YOU CONTINUE TO DO SO?
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Peew971 said:
in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
blanket said:
actually, i don't have much to complain about wp7, except that the notification system is a little lacking. whatsapp told me i have 25 incoming messages, when i checked it, i noticed that the timestamp of the messages was listed to be 1 hour ago
i don't know how to explain it properly, but an example would be i received the messages at 10pm, but timestamp of the messages were 9pm
other than that...i got no real big complaints. oh, and the batt indicator.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Peew971 said:
I won't be the first or last to mention the state of the WP7 forums on XDA, this is the most unhealthy place I've seen on the whole internet space and I've seen some heated console discussions on gaming websites. I do feel bad for the mods, I don't even see them around anymore probably because they're sick of all this sh*t and I'm sure that if it wasn't for some developers and a few people actually looking for help and info that whole section would have been shut and done with.
We are all responsible really, no need to hide behind excuses but I would like to talk on behalf of "the haters" which apparently I'm now a part of.
Without criticism there is no progress, that's a fact. However this forum has become a place where no criticism is allowed.
Want dual core? The OS doesn't need it. Want more storage? That's what Skydrive and Zune Pass are for. Want a notification center? Live tiles are doing the job. Want more games? Buy a PSP. I could go on and on, there's an answer to everything here, valid arguments are no longer considered. I don't know but some 3rd party developers my benefit from dual core, some people might not have a reliable data connection that allows them to just use Skydrive, some people might not have Zune Pass available in their country or they do but they don't see the need to pay for it when they already own 10GB of music, there are always valid arguments. Except that here they're systematically rejected.
So we think Mango wasn't revolutionary, can you really prove us wrong? We think the new devices are a bit of a let down, can you really contest that? Microsoft is focusing to much on their US customers and not enough on the others, isn't that a fair point? We think as a great gaming company, Microsoft is making a mockery of Xbox Live mobile, is it really something to argue?
Apparently yes, if you dare to mention anything wrong with the OS you are now some sort of android troll, hater or iSheep who's posting in the wrong forums. And it's always the same stories... "how long did it take Apple/Google to do this?", "Android is laggy and buggy", " the iPhone is boring", etc. no recognition whatsoever of what others are doing right, Windows Phone is Jesus and if you see something wrong with it you're Judas. Could it be possible that we do like this OS but that in some aspects we are worried that it might not get the success it deserves because it is lacking important features or isn't moving as fast as it should? No it isn't possible it seems, because in this place you either love it or hate it, there's no middle ground.
Sure there are actual people who don't like WP7 but I don't think they would be posting here everyday unless they had a very boring life. I think most people here want the platform to evolve positively but you guys need to stop ruling this place like a dictatorship where you should be beheaded should you say anything negative about the OS. At the end of the day, you wouldn't be able to save your camera settings today if not for the thousands of people who complained about this "feature".
I hope the mods won't close this thread although I personally won't reply to it anymore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest it's people like yourself, that seem to care too much about a gadget, that are the problem.
I don't post all that much but to speak like this forum is somehow different than the other 10000000 forums in the world on different subjects from real cars to gaming systems to political discussions, etc...
I think some just get too excited because they can hide behind their computer...
Seriously, it's a gadget.
I love WP7...I've had them all. It works for me. If it doesn't work for you, why bother posting in these forums?
I personally don't like Android...I occasionally read the forums but rarely if ever post in them.
Anyway...to each his/her own....
SR1738NX said:
Personal opinion. I am exactly at middleground and will be until something is released to give me more interest. I love my pc. Dualbooting betwen ubuntu, windows 7 and windows 8. However, this isn't a pc. Its a smartphone, and its just that. You seem to be wanting more out of this device, which Im not sure what that might be? Its fast. Never laggy. Theres times where I wish I had an android so i could customize the ???? out of it to my preference, but thats not windows phone 7 is all about. As the commericals say, spend less time on your phone, and more time doing what you want/love/whatever. I am a 17 year old who is looking to constantly learn more about anything electronic. My HTC Surround? It has problems, well more like issues that cant be fixed at the moment. From time to time it will have networking problems, headphone problems and even screen lockups when connecting to a charging cord. However, thats nothing different from the issues of other android cellphones I had. To be honest here though. I love it 50% and hate it 50%. Something as small as transparent live tiles and a custom picture background; will in fact make me love this little piece of heaven. But! thats just me.
So to end what i've said, It is an amazing OS aswell as amazing devices that get shipped with it. I just don't think people are ready to accept it and move on from the traditional windows mobile 6.5, android, and dare I say it... that iphone crap.
Its great, it really is. But if you don't like it, problem solved dont use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i do like the OS too. initially, i found it a little constricting in comparison with wm, but realistically speaking, wm is, like what is, a pc in your pocket
wp7, like it's name says, is a phone. i now spend more time in weaver, in pocket ie or reading my pdf files, or simply doing simple work on my 7 pro
and no, i won't touch android with a 10 foot pole. 1 thing wm taught me is that fragmentation is a *****. android will feel it soon. i'm impartial towards ios, but there's no keyboard. thats a deal breaker for me.
in summary, with wp7, i feel that i'm using a phone instead of a pc like wm was before. it was fun with wm though
---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 PM ----------
Mr_Waffle said:
Same, even though push notifications seem to be near instant for me since Mango came along. Battery indicator seems to be troubling every now and then, but pulling it out and recharging it a few times works for me.
I honestly don't get why people complain about it. If you don't like it, don't get it. Simple as that.
If you don't like your cheeseburger with cheese, don't complain that it has cheese and get a regular burger.
I got a WP7 because I wanted to try something different. I ended up loving it.
But that is just me...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i wonder who is responsible for the lagging notifications. whatsapp? or ms?
cgibsong002 said:
In a thread started about how pathetic the arguing is on here... it only takes half a page for it to start...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
morpheuszg said:
Yep, it really is getting hopeless.
In my case I love WP7 because it suits me best of them all. But there are definitely things I just want out of my sight: US-only services for example. That is maybe the main reason why WP is being hindered to flourish. Or Nokia doing exclusive things with EA. What is the point of doing that? It produces fragmentation which is absolutely poisonous for WP7 in it's current position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im sorry, does the HTC dock produce fragmentation? Just because Nokia provides a higher quality of software services they are held to a different standard? I'm sorry Nokia has faith in this platform... O-0
I think XDA is a great place to come together as people who chose WP7 for whatever reason and plan to stick with with it. It shouldn't be the place to criticize and complain and moan and belittle the ones who love their phone.
How about we share tricks and tips? How about workarounds to some limiting feature. For the ones that are adept at coding, how about we crack open wp7 and make it better? Many of these things already exist thankfully as I can now take screenshots, put apps in folders and even video chat with my HD7. Thats what this forum is for, a community for supporters of the platform to enrich each other's experiences.
It shouldn't be a war of words, specs and features. I think if you're not satisfied with how wp7 works
a. sell your phone and recoup some of the cost
b. adopt another platform that satisfies your needs AND/OR
c. visit the official windows phone suggestion forum and vote on the features you wish to see implemented. That there is the correct venue for your discontent.

This man, has somewhat of a point...

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/com...le_to_launch_android_50_jelly_bean_in/c3ruc2t
He has half a point made less important and taken less seriously by the inability to express it coherantly. The language he uses seems to me that he has more of a grudge than anything. His post is one of pure anger. I agree things could be done better. I've mentioned the use of github for ICS joint development many times but it never really happened.
That said, I have learned a lot here. I have always felt I have managed to get the help I need in a thread for a particular ROM... IF there is an answer and I have also been able to give the help needed. There is nothing wrong with "one-man-operations". Most the "****" people do here has already been done so its not like it needs to be documented and made available in every ROM.
Yes its chaos, but its our chaos and we understand it. I guess he never made it to 10 posts.
That guy is a moron.
Where to begin.
1. XDA is not a software company, it is, in fact, a forum. So to attack its "forum like organization"...just sounds stupid. It's like saying "look at that freaking tea kettle, brewing tea, how dare it!" This wasn't set up, intended for or was ever thought to be a business-type, engineering/programming atmosphere. It's a chill spot, like a beach, for nerds who love their smartphones. It's 2012, grow the hell up.
2. XDA is driven by user generated content, not by employees. ROMs, kernels, tweaks, mods, themes, etc are done by people like teachers, writers, auto mechanics, etc etc. It's a hobby for us. To give them crap for not following proper programming documentation is simply wrong (although everyone who releases a kernel must follow the rules of the GPL, that's a given). These people aren't engineers and don't have degrees in this stuff (well, most don't ), they're hobbyists. To attack them is to attack the spirit of XDA: which is caring, sharing and enjoying yourself. This is not a business, to assume that it should be run like one is asinine.
This guy is a dirtbag and a blowhard. This is a giant, dysfunctional, international family of people who just happen to love their smartphones. We tweak things as we like them, release them for whoever wants to try them and just hang out and discuss stuff. That guy is the next door neighbor who hates loud music and hot chicks doing keg stands on his lawn.
Ignore him, he's just angry because things aren't exactly to his specifications and he wants a rise out of everyone. He's what the interwebz calls a "troll".
rootSU said:
The language he uses seems to me that he has more of a grudge than anything. His post is one of pure anger.
Agree Completely
That said, I have learned a lot here.
Agree more so than anything +infinity
Yes its chaos, but its our chaos and we understand it. I guess he never made it to 10 posts.
+1 on that, I know exactly what everything means
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PoorCollegeGuy said:
That guy is a moron.
Where to begin.
1. XDA is not a software company, it is, in fact, a forum. So to attack its "forum like organization"...just sounds stupid. It's like saying "look at that freaking tea kettle, brewing tea, how dare it!"
lol
This wasn't set up, intended for or was ever thought to be a business-type, engineering/programming atmosphere. It's a chill spot, like a beach, for nerds who love their smartphones. It's 2012, grow the hell up.
2. XDA is driven by user generated content, not by employees. ROMs, kernels, tweaks, mods, themes, etc are done by people like teachers, writers, auto mechanics, etc etc. It's a hobby for us. To give them crap for not following proper programming documentation is simply wrong (although everyone who releases a kernel must follow the rules of the GPL, that's a given). These people aren't engineers and don't have degrees in this stuff (well, most don't ), they're hobbyists. To attack them is to attack the spirit of XDA: which is caring, sharing and enjoying yourself. This is not a business, to assume that it should be run like one is asinine.
This guy is a dirtbag and a blowhard. This is a giant, dysfunctional, international family of people who just happen to love their smartphones. We tweak things as we like them, release them for whoever wants to try them and just hang out and discuss stuff. That guy is the next door neighbor who hates loud music and hot chicks doing keg stands on his lawn.
Ignore him, he's just angry because things aren't exactly to his specifications and he wants a rise out of everyone. He's what the interwebz calls a "troll".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's nice to see views from a different perspective, it sort of made sense reading that (and ofcourse it did perfectly to him), since it wasn't taking into account what xda is and always has been.
Correct me if I'm wrong but CyanogenMod started out as a one man project right? It gotten so big that it really needs the documentation, traceability, bug tracking, in other words the "system" that he spoke of. So there... funny.
I saw this posted on some other ROM site that was once an active member here on XDA, as expected they agree with what was posted.
I think what he was complaining about is that there is no formal place for developers to go, create, document and update their projects - and just used xda as somewhere where he could aim his rant since it's the place to go if you want something for your android phone.
That being said, it'd be nice to see cooperation as seen with the CM team, things would probably get done a lot faster and more efficiently, as for people starting their own projects and turning them into "donate to me" buttons.. if that's all you want then how about making an account for the donations and spreading it evenly between the team.

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