Related
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2011...ne/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
No comment.
it's an opinion column (if you can call it that) and not much more. the slow and cumbersome behemoth needs a good deal of time to get up to speed. i'd give them credit for the 1.0 release of wp7. sure, there were some really really face-palm points that were missed, and they attempted to lock it down in an even more incredibly stupid way than apple... but it was a major release.
the problem with 1.0 major releases is:
promising the world, then backpedaling
promising really awesome updates, with all that stuff the other guys have been doing for x years
promising not to fragment (everyone fragments, even apple)
comparing a 1.0 to another 1.0 is fun, and makes for flamewars, but it's not really productive. if company A's 1.0 was released 5 years ago, company B should ALREADY KNOW WHAT SUCKS AND WHY from company A's mistakes and shortcomings. M$ has some really really smart people working there, must just be the management that effs it up.
with the exception of the marketplace bug, what did MS need to fix (from a stability standpoint)? You'll see apple's first couple of updates were bug fixes.
I'm not in any hurry, and if you are, you shouldn't have jumped on the bandwagon at launch.
I'm not either. It's just a bit confronting, that's all.
nrfitchett4 said:
with the exception of the marketplace bug, what did MS need to fix (from a stability standpoint)? You'll see apple's first couple of updates were bug fixes.
I'm not in any hurry, and if you are, you shouldn't have jumped on the bandwagon at launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Camera settings not saving for one. Facebook synced contacts still showing up over bluetooth. Ability to disable camera shutter sound. Alarms "disabled" if headphones plugged in. No address bar in IE landscape.
There are plenty more which could be considered actual bugs. I'm not expecting new features to be pushed weekly, but see no reason why bugfixes would not be. Especially very basic ones such as the camera settings not saving - this has been the number one gripe since launch and afaik there has been no official word from MS regarding this (apart from their user-manual changing to make it sound like a "feature" rather than a "bug"), the same goes for Facebook contacts showing up over BT.
emigrating said:
No address bar in IE landscape.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently not there so you can get screen estate.
I am sure that Microsoft will squash most/all of the bugs in this coming update, which happens to be OTA.
canadariot2312 said:
Apparently not there so you can get screen estate.
I am sure that Microsoft will squash most/all of the bugs in this coming update, which happens to be OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, and I agree with that - I don't want the address bar showing up constantly. I actually don't want it showing up in portrait mode all the time either.
But this has been done before - there are plenty of good solutions out there for hiding the browser address bar when in landscape.
emigrating said:
Yeah, and I agree with that - I don't want the address bar showing up constantly. I actually don't want it showing up in portrait mode all the time either.
But this has been done before - there are plenty of good solutions out there for hiding the browser address bar when in landscape.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think a browser update might enable the option to hide the address bar or make it show up will be available in the upcoming future.
About the article, it looks like Microsoft only needs one update to solve the security of the OS. Microsoft does not need to roll out hundreds of tiny updates a year unless completely necessary.
emigrating said:
Camera settings not saving for one. Facebook synced contacts still showing up over bluetooth. Ability to disable camera shutter sound. Alarms "disabled" if headphones plugged in. No address bar in IE landscape.
There are plenty more which could be considered actual bugs. I'm not expecting new features to be pushed weekly, but see no reason why bugfixes would not be. Especially very basic ones such as the camera settings not saving - this has been the number one gripe since launch and afaik there has been no official word from MS regarding this (apart from their user-manual changing to make it sound like a "feature" rather than a "bug"), the same goes for Facebook contacts showing up over BT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps you can't read, he said "from a stability standpoint" not your personal preferences or annoyances. Those are not bugs, they're quirks.
Oops, disregard, wrong thread.
From @windowsphone on twitter: http://newwp.it/i6NfzI
On the last page there's this question, "What, if anything, would you change about your Windows Phone 7?" Bombard away with what MS needs to be working on (file management or at least local document sync, direct Outlook sync, etc.) Please make sure what you guys write is thought out and most importantly, grammatically correct.
* Give us an official support page and a contact number for issues
* Clear outline & timeline of future updates
* More frequent updates and force carriers to deploy them in maximum of 45 days
* Enable to use own MP3 ringtones
* Sync directly to Outlook
* Allow tethering
* Turn by turn navigation for Australia with better maps
* Allow unlocking of the device for a one of fee! Only charge per year when someone wants to submit to marketplace
janemanno1 said:
* Give us an official support page and a contact number for issues
* Clear outline & timeline of future updates
* More frequent updates and force carriers to deploy them in maximum of 45 days
* Enable to use own MP3 ringtones
* Sync directly to Outlook
* Allow tethering
* Turn by turn navigation for Australia with better maps
* Tom Tom,Garmin etc GPS compatible software
* Allow unlocking of the device for a one of fee! Only charge per year when someone wants to submit to marketplace
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Amen to all of these.
Just changed one thing for every other country.
More recent hardware, and I am in.
agp64 said:
Amen to all of these.
Just changed one thing for every other country.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed
Zune Pass in australia. Our zune hub isnt very pretty without it
Well, I would like to see multitasking, some options on the right of the home screen, let's say a button, that would open a line of Wifi on/off and etc., Copy paste, better browser. And what's important- update devices, give more info about the updates, what is coming and when
janemanno1 said:
* Clear outline & timeline of future updates
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
FWIW, remember a little thing called "Longhorn" (aka "Vista")? So many promised features and released dates missed. I doubt you'll ever see anything other than vague descriptions and nebulous dates, Microsoft has been slapped around too much in the past for missing promises.
My comment:
- SkyDrive if you dont have sharepoint in the officehub.
- More reliable push notifications.
- Expanding Facebook integration with ability to send private messages from the message hub to facebook and other services... but this will probably not happen so hope the fb app gets better with notifications.
I would love to have a bug free ZUNE , it is crashing all the time and sometimes with BSOD'S
Turn-by-turn voice nav
User selectable ringtones and sounds
User created email folders
More themes and UI customization
Screen capture
Copy & paste
A good one:
http://wmpoweruser.com/the-art-of-stalling/
doministry said:
A good one:
http://wmpoweruser.com/the-art-of-stalling/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is unremarkably sad. I didn't know it was that serious.
That is unremarkably sad. I didn't know it was that serious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean remarkably sad?
And android wasn't the same way at launch?
I purchased the HTC Magic on launch day from Rogers.. Android market wasn't made available to us in Canada until roughly 5 months later..
I didn't get turn-by-turn until aprox a year or so later..
No voice search until ...what...3 updates which took roughly a year and half (1.5, 1.6...2.1)
They day I dumped my HTC magic I still didn't have local search.. unless I opened a browser and went to Google.CA and specified my city in the search field.
WP7 wil catch up eventually, it's still a baby OS compared to the others. Android didn't really become great until after 2.XX
I agree with other with the timeline business. I'd like to see that as well.
I just put a CDMA version of WP7.... It is about time we have the option of getting one.
Things to change about Windows Phone 7
--------------------------------------
1) Password protection on email. This is needed when you hand your phone to someone to check out or use and don't want them to be able to just click on your email while that happens and read private emails.
2) The marketplace should have an option to download first and install later. This is because public wifi or data plans in general are not nearly as fast as using your local wifi. You might pop into a coffee shop or mcdonalds to try some new apps on the go and you want to maximise your use of the wifi while you are there to get through the download queue. Installing/unpacking can take quite a long time but that can be done when you are no longer connected. This also aids in saving on limited data plans. With this approach, if there is no more space currently left to unpack the queue should move on and unpack successively but keep downloaded packages on the device to be installed later once the user frees up some more space.
3) Better managaement of marketplace download queue. I have had stuck downloads before, particularly at pending or corrupted downloads that were stuck at the installing phase. You should always be able to cancel or retry something. These options only come up when "attention is required". Queue reordering is also a strong "nice to have".
4) Better Management of phone download history. For example, when I restore a phone I don't want it to queue up literally everything I have ever "purchased", especially many trial or free apps. There should be a special "restore" queue for indispensible games/apps that you do want to automatically redownload when this happens.
5) Better lock phone i.e. android combination swype. The current 4 digit system is too easy to see over the shoulder and easily brute forceable, even more so if someone remembers only some of the digits.
6) Complete application data/isolated storage sync. Anytime you are at a local computer or connection to sync, you should have an option sync the latest application data for example news feeds and media as well. This way data connection apps are still useful in places without a connection i.e. subways. I understand this is a major feature just by itself
7) VPN options
8) Local file management/drag and drop.
9) Ability for Zune to play and organise media by folders with 8 implemented.
In general I think WP7 should be stronger with local/isolated storage features and not be so cloud dependent. The combination of cloud + local services will be a killer combination. In addition I think WP7 should be going after Android's #2 spot right now and not iPhone which it currently cannot compete with. Android has many weak spots including lower requirements on apps and games resulting in weaker quality when compared to WP7, lack of SD installability for many apps. and generally unpolished "iphone knockoff" feel. Secure #2 spot for now, which will be a good base to attack iPhone from. WP7 is already superior to Android in UX now and can gain quickly in app diversity and features.
Right now the OS feels like a beachhead but a strong one. There is good work, but unpolished and incomplete but the war can still be won. Keep fighting the good fight
The bottom line is that if MS wants this OS to fly for real, in the long term, they need to get their act together.
stillriza said:
I think you mean remarkably sad?
And android wasn't the same way at launch?
I purchased the HTC Magic on launch day from Rogers.. Android market wasn't made available to us in Canada until roughly 5 months later..
I didn't get turn-by-turn until aprox a year or so later..
No voice search until ...what...3 updates which took roughly a year and half (1.5, 1.6...2.1)
They day I dumped my HTC magic I still didn't have local search.. unless I opened a browser and went to Google.CA and specified my city in the search field.
WP7 wil catch up eventually, it's still a baby OS compared to the others. Android didn't really become great until after 2.XX
I agree with other with the timeline business. I'd like to see that as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what I hear you saying, any company that puts out products should not consider the current state of the industry? What should Apple do with the next iPhone? Put one out without all the current features and then migrate those features into it over the course of a year? Or how about the car companies, they should put out cars without navigation or high tech stereos or computer aided engine controls and just migrate those features into them over the course of a year?
Far be it from MS to stay up with even itself on new products and put out a smartphone without the current state of the industry features. Let them put those features in over the course of a year...or two. It's unwise to bring a mature product to market. People might begin to expect that kind of thing. Bollocks!
My feedback on the online survey:
-Current phone - WM 6.5
- Next phone - (i) Android
(ii) Other- Windows Mobile, if it is revived , will be preferred over Android
Suggestions:
(i) I don't like the Homescreen, it should be more customizable and at the very least the tiles
should be resizable.
(ii) There should be a favorite people hub with the option to pin a contact directly to this hub from
the contacts list (tap and hold on contact should give at least 3-4 options viz. pin to favorites, pin
to start, edit & send)
(iii) After device purchase, the user should have the option to replace the homescreen with an
approved one from reputed developers(I will prefer a solution from SPB software).
(iv) There is too much scrolling in the program list, option of grid view should also be there.
(v) Size of headings too large in the hubs. The headings should either be in a background layer or
they should Auto Hide after somtime and be replaced with blinking arrows on the left/right edges of
the screen.
(vi) File Explorer + Multitasking.
(vii) Office applictions should be more powerful.
(viii) Availability of powerful Calendar & Task management applications like pocket informant.
(x) Revival of Phone/End hardware buttons.
Forgot to add - (xi) Revive Smart-dialling
(xii) Bring back outlook sync
MartyLK said:
So what I hear you saying, any company that puts out products should not consider the current state of the industry? What should Apple do with the next iPhone? Put one out without all the current features and then migrate those features into it over the course of a year? Or how about the car companies, they should put out cars without navigation or high tech stereos or computer aided engine controls and just migrate those features into them over the course of a year?
Far be it from MS to stay up with even itself on new products and put out a smartphone without the current state of the industry features. Let them put those features in over the course of a year...or two. It's unwise to bring a mature product to market. People might begin to expect that kind of thing. Bollocks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you.. but what I was saying is Android was the same way. Apple already had a pretty good grip on the market at the time Android launched. As per what you mentioned above.. it was clear Android didn't have a grasp of the then current state of the market. Several updates later.. and look at them now.
Basically, any company that puts out a product should consider the current state..but sadly that just doesn't always happen. The phone is pretty complete to I would like to say 70% of the general phone using public. It seems MS had targeted the OS to those switching from 'dumb' phones, if you will, to smart phones. The only people who are really hurting would be the power users. The updates will come.
This is a clarification thread, and I will not, unlike my other attempt, be fooled into a pissing contest. There just seems to be a lot of misunderstanding when it comes to "multitasking" on Windows Phone 7, and I will try to clarify a little bit.
Problem: You're in a program, start another one, and then start the original again - and your data is gone, or if it's a game you have to start from the beginning.
Answer: This has nothing to do with multitasking, but something called tombstoning. The developers has to take into account what to do when a program is exited by starting another program, and most seem to just ignore it. That is when you lose your data or have to start the game from scratch
Problem: "Windows Phone doesn't multitask", "When will we get multitasking" etc
Answer: Windows Phone can multitask just fine. So can the programs running on Windows Phone. What most people refer to when asking these questions is really either the question above, or if developers will be allowed to run programs in the background. Multitasking is being able to more than one thing at the time, and the most simple test to see if your phone supports it or not is to see if you can receive phone calls or listen to music while you're checking mail. So - your phone can both multitask and run applications in the background (which is called scheduling, actually, as multitasking doesn't necessarily mean running a program that isn't in the foreground - uploading a picture to your sky drive while letting you browse the other pictures is typical multitasking).
Problem: "When will MS let us run programs in the background?"
Answer: There are both pros and cons to letting developers do this. A lot of developers aren't that good when it comes to using resources sensibly while in the background, and a lot of programs simply doesn't *need* to run in the background. If you're writing notes and want them back when you return, that's tombstoning. Playing a game? Well, you certainly don't want it to actually run in the background as you'll be dead when you return. Still tombstoning. One of the few applications is if you're listening to music (videos don't cound, because it doesn't make sense playing the video when you cannot watch it) or download larger amounts of data. The problem is that, if it's not done correctly, this can negatively impact performance (do you really want your game to stutter or have to wait two minutes for mail to open??), it can drain your battery, and it can even help distribute viruses. If MS wants to open this to developers, they need to have special testing procedures before they allow it. Also, misbehaving background apps will give most people a negative image of MS, which is apparent in all the threads dissing MS for not allowing "multitasking" because developers don't save data when exiting the application.
So, here's a short run-down of terms that are interesting in today's computer landscape:
* Multitasking: Being able to do more than one job at a time. Multitasking really just divides the processor time (available time to use the processor) and gives slices to different jobs.
* Multithreading: Being able to divide tasks into their own threads, thus allowing the use of more cores/processors. A multitasking, single threaded OS can only use one processor (simplification of the truth - if you know why it's a simplification, you don't need the full story. If you don't, it will only confuse you), while a multitasking, multithreaded OS can use more. Most programs, even for regular computers don't use multithreading, as it's a pain in the O to handle, but operating systems do. That's why, on a PC, Counter Strike will only use one of the cores on your brand new gaming rig with 8 cores, but all the cores will be active.
* Background scheduling: How the OS can let applications run in the background, usually by giving it less processor time (most often just free cycles) and thus letting it complete a time consuming process without making the system too slow to use. A foreground application will usually get more processor time than if it was running in the background.
I hope this clears it up, and helps people to understand what the different terms are and when to use it.
To sum up:
* Multitasking is available. There's no question about it. Windows Phone multitasks applications, and applications can multitask internally.
* Background scheduling is available, but is not an open API for developers. This has both positive and negative implications, depending on application
* A lot of developers are pretty bad when it comes to tombstoning.
Great post. There is nothing to be added. Sadly most ppl won't read the whole think or simply continue complaining.
I'm happy with the OS as it is, because I don't want all those crappy apps to suck my battery and fool with my CPU cycles.
In future real sceduling may be a capability of apps which need spezial certification. But I'm strictly against open APIs for that!
It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.
the_Crispy said:
Great post. There is nothing to be added. Sadly most ppl won't read the whole think or simply continue complaining.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks
See the post below yours for confirmation that people won't read, but will gladly complain
I see what you mean and for the most part you got all the definitions correct, but you also have to see how WP7 handles apps and the pros and cons on the end-user.
WP7 actually just saves the state of the app when navigated away from, and does not actually enable you to RUN two apps at once so developers have to be really tricky with how they incorporate this into the OS. The pros are saving battery and not waste resources, the cons are that you cannot actually utilize the best parts of multi-tasking.
Do you want you game "running" in the background so you die? No, but the developer should know that and code the app appropriately. Do you want to be able to stream music in the background while checking emails or texting or tweeting? Of course. Not possible under the current version of WP7. How about playing a game/email/text while driving and having turn-by-turn navigation on? Nope. Developers might be lazy at times, but they're not usually idiots.
There's no question that the OS has the native ability to do so, no one ever argued that point. The beef is that MS has locked their OS down so they only allow Zune to do it. Well some of us don't like Zune or want to multi-task other apps too.
But MS wants to play it safe and see how multi-tasking is working out for Google and Apple before they actually allow it for any 3rd party apps, meanwhile the end-user suffers and the salesguy at the t-mobile store doesn't even show you an HD7 because you "can only do one thing at a time." MS needs to wake the hell up and allow 3rd party TRUE multi-tasking for 3rd party apps. It actually made some sense to not allow it for the initial release, it could have been a nightmare with an early OS and not that many apps anyways, developers had to get fancy and had to stay smart and honest, or their app would be killed with the quickness.
But it is time to free the OS to do some core things that it is really lacking:
1) True Multitasking
2) Copy and Paste
3) HTML5 and Flash support in IE
4) Third party web browsers
5) full direct camera access to apps
6) separate audio levels for media, ringtones, alarm (android really nailed this one)
of course other bugs and stuff, but these are the main issues for me. I don't blame MS for how they handled tombstoning and multi-tasking initially, but it's time (with efficiency) to catch up with the rest of the herd.
tiwas said:
and I will not, unlike my other attempt, be fooled into a pissing contest.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pillsburydoughman said:
It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
tiwas said:
Thanks
See the post below yours for confirmation that people won't read, but will gladly complain
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not going to get into any ranting or raving or anything on this one, but please don't bash everyone who does not agree with you in this thread or claim they don't read.
The guy had a legitimate post about tombstoning an instant messenger and I have pointed out other times where MS drops the ball on this mulit-tasking issue.
Your OP is a good post and helps clear up some things, but you have to understand that there are real concerns with the OS not allowing 3rd party multi-tasking and just flaming anyone who does not think that this is the best way for the OS to operate.
It wasn't bashing. I was simply pointing out that he hadn't read the whole thing, as he, like you, didn't really understand the concept of multitasking.
Anyway, I'm not going to start arguing with you again.
pillsburydoughman said:
It has nothing to do with developers. If an OS is well written it will handle multitasking just fine, it's a nice excuse but a lame one. My old blackberry with a 400mhz processor and displays graphic icons can multi-task. Windows phone 7 with a 1ghz processor and is primarily text based won't allow it.
The keyword here is won't. We all know it's capable of doing it so why won't MS allow it? This is the reason why many major instant message apps are not available for this platform. What's the point of having an instant messager if it gets tombstoned when you switch screens? Big usability hole here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WP7 definitely has the capbility of multi tasking, or you won't be playing music while using IE. MS limited the multi tasking for 3rd party apps.
Your old phone or android phone can do multitanking without any system limit. As I know it's free for Android application to create background services. However it causes significant lag and battery drain. My captivate lose 4% power per hour on standby and I cannot even locate which app is causing such battery drain.
MS learned from apple that it's more important to keep the device running smooth than to let apps mess the phone up.
Who cares what you call it. People want to have a messenger or non zune music player in the background while they do other things and be able to QUICKLY respond to it. BASICALLY most people want what apple calls multitasking/fast app switching. Only certain things allowed and a proper save state when when leaving the app. It works great on the iPhone and i dont care what people say its simple and effective.
can WP7 multitask?
tiwas said:
It wasn't bashing. I was simply pointing out that he hadn't read the whole thing, as he, like you, didn't really understand the concept of multitasking.
Anyway, I'm not going to start arguing with you again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well I think we both understand the concept of multi-tasking, just disagree with you on the wiseness of not allowing third party apps to be able to do so, someone disagreeing with you isn't the same thing as not understanding something; multi-tasking is actually a pretty easy concept to understand.
I don't want to argue with you again either, I just also don't want readers of this thread to be misinformed and to get all viewpoints regarding WP7's lack of multi-tasking support and then they can decide if they agree or not, but it doesn't mean that the subject is not understood.
I have no desire to start any beef on this thread, just keep in mind that when you start a thread you open a discussion open to disagreements, these don't mean that people don't read or don't understand necessarily. Don't be afraid to be wrong, it happens to everyone. We're all here to get the most out of our devices anyways.
So, you are shazaming a song on the radio, and get a phone call or a txt - will wp7 tombstone the live radio for you too?
Anthonok said:
Who cares what you call it. People want to have a messenger or non zune music player in the background while they do other things and be able to QUICKLY respond to it. BASICALLY most people want what apple calls multitasking/fast app switching. Only certain things allowed and a proper save state when when leaving the app. It works great on the iPhone and i dont care what people say its simple and effective.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.
amtrakcn said:
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what so they will add this in the 9 generation?(if you count 6.1 and 6.5)
Wow
vetvito said:
what so they will add this in the 9 generation?(if you count 6.1 and 6.5)
Wow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's named WP7 but it's ACTUALLY WP1.
WM is designed to be a lite version of desktop windows with phone features
That's why it was powerful while hurting user experience
vetvito said:
can WP7 multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should read my full post. It's explained
I am absolutely sure big companies will be allowed to run in the background, and it's probably just a question about time before we get MSN Messenger running properly in the background.
There are other uses, like streaming music, but as for the suggestions of running GPS software with turn by turn instructions (you shouldn't play games or do anything with your phone while driving!) and having a game active in the background without letting your character die (cool! Let's spin our wheels! We're not going anywhere, but we sure are spending gas! ) are plain silly...
Ok, on my list of programs that will benefit from actually running in the background, I can only think of two now, but please help me put more on the list:
* Music streaming
* Messaging
vetvito said:
can WP7 multitask?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nothing other than Zune right now
tiwas said:
but as for the suggestions of running GPS software with turn by turn instructions (you shouldn't play games or do anything with your phone while driving!) and having a game active in the background without letting your character die (cool! Let's spin our wheels! We're not going anywhere, but we sure are spending gas! ) are plain silly...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well GPS would nice since sometimes you're the passenger and you still want turn by turn while gaming or emailing, so it needs to be supported in the mango update too.
Hi fellow XDA lovers
I just want to remind you all that we don't want a flame war here so keep it on topic please.
amtrakcn said:
Apple add this feature not until their 4th generation system
Let's see what the mango update will give us.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it took them an extremely long time because apple is stubborn (or should i say Steve Jobs) and it is disappointing that Microsoft chose to pull an apple with WP7. But at least apple updated the iPhone....
lqaddict said:
So, you are shazaming a song on the radio, and get a phone call or a txt - will wp7 tombstone the live radio for you too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should probably be able to run in the background if you get a call. I can play games while on the phone, but it leaves a nasty orange block on the top of the screen to notify you that your on the phone. As far txt messaging go, yea that's a bummer. I just click the message when it comes up, respond, then click back to go to the game I was playing. Just hope that game saved your previous state.
I recently jumped the ship from iOS to Android, and being dissapointed by the "Android-Experience" (Overall esthetics, User-friendliness, etc etc..), I was considering changing to WP7. Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Thanks in advance.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay
I dont want to spam, but i am a Android Xperia Neo (2.3) and a WP7 Mango (with the HTC Trophy user) and i recomend you to see this video I made up youtube.com/watch?v=NNo13-LUlHo (if it inst allowed than i will remove the link). Well i prefer WP7 because of its estability and interface and smoothness. Sorry for my bad english
Jay_uk1185 said:
For me its about the user interface and the stability. To give you an idea - I have an iPad and was an iPhone user from the first until the 3GS. I then used a Nexus One for 18 months.
Windows phone offers a better interface than iOS in that it puts emphasis on the information rather than pointless Chrome and interface elements like buttons etc. Its the only mobile OS thats actually innovative in its approach to displaying info.
In terms of stability it knocks the socks off of android because the thing actually does what it says it will all of the time. With Android i always feel like its hit and miss.
However what i will say is that the quality and the reach of the apps needs to improve. now Ms has sorted out the multi tasking and notifications service with Mango it will take some decent competitive apps to keep me here as i have been flirting with Android again recently. ( for example the Twitter app has no notifications, birdsong aint bad but only polls every 5 minutes).
Hope this help!
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Kim
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You will be on to a winner with WP7 to be honest. It certainly presents the information in a far better and more innovative way than any of the competition and certainly works far more reliably.
The only caveat is that up until you have Mango - the live tile updates are terribly unreliable. (These are the widget-type tiles on the start screen)
Jay
WP7 is pleasure to use but is at an earlier stage in its life than ios or android, it has the potential to be a leading smart phones but I'd wait a few weeks to see if mango manages to push us to the forefront ?
Yeah, I was gonna wait a month or two to see how Android fares with me, and then eventually jump ship ... again
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
yup can't go wrong with wp7 everything is much faster and cleaner while android and iOS are just offering specs and graphics, wp7 is offering real usability and features.
Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.
day2die said:
Pro:
The performance is superb. No Android phone (even with dual-core) can match Windows Phone's. Apps rarely crash and rarely lags.
The whole WP OS UI carries a unified theme and even 3rd party apps seem to use the same theme.
The OS itself is very integrated. Many features that come build in to the WP OS are separate apps on other platform.
Con:
Lack of customization. You don't like how the WP OS looks? Too bad.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS's look is the first reason I'd move to wp. The integration astounded me, we're only seeing it appear in iOS 5 (I'm a beta tester), and as for Android ...
I'd heard of the hardware stability, that'd be a definite plus+. Can't wait to try it out !
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
I look at WP7 as having the best of both iOS and Android.
On one hand you have the Android approach of different handset makers and a choice in hardware. Like Apple, Microsoft is showing tight control over the OS. So between two WP7 handsets you aren't going to see a huge difference in terms of how the OS performs. The biggest problem I have had with Android in the past is how the user experience is vastly different between two phones, especially when hardware manufacturers start skinning the OS.
You honestly can't go wrong with WP7, especially with the Mango update around the corner.
omnomnomkimiiee said:
Would it be possible for someone to list the major pros & cons of WP7, 'cos I haven't been able to try it out yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?
CSMR said:
What type of user: "consumer" or business or both?
Your level of computer skills: basic or proficient?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
User: both, private/business 30%/70%
Computer skills are rather mediocre in the ms/linux world, I'm more of an os x guy.
Sent via my magical HTC Wildfire S.
Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
EDIT: Just a little correction to the person who mentioned Chrome. WP7 does indeed have the "Chrome" element of the UI. The Status Bar at the top that auto hides is Chrome & so is the Menu Bar. It just auto hides & in some apps, isn't there at all (aka fullscreen mode).
drkfngthdragnlrd said:
Pros:
WP7 is fast & stable
Does what it does very well
You can get in & get out fast
Integration
No "real" need for flashing custom ROM's
The UI is clean & easy to read
Cons:
If you're like me & like "hacking" your device, Mango killed Homebrew (Hopefully we'll find ways around this)
Customization (If you like the UI exactly as is, not an issue for you)
Lack of choices in certain functionality
3rd party apps are a bit immature
In the end I suggest going to your local carrier's store & playing with a display model or if a friend has one play with it. The best thing about WP7 is it's performance. Someone said that touching the screen is like touching the pixels. This is a very good analogy, because what ever you do (in most cases), the device reacts to your inputs almost instantaneously. You can't really see any lag except in maybe some 3rd party apps & especially homebrew, but with homebrew, that's performance issues of the hacks currently being used. The last couple days I've been playing with my ex's Android & it feels so slow. Granted it's a cheap no name $50 Metro PCS one, but still. When I try to scroll throw the apps list, it takes a few seconds for my touch inputs to actually be displayed. The screen has a delay of input of scroll to it actually scroll. Everything I try to do takes so long to do.
Than again, I don't understand why she even has an Android device or smartphone in general. She never setup a Google account, which i had to do to access the market for an app for her. She wants to record a couple voicemails. So, I installed a call recorder app for her. She never setup her home screen. It has 5 "tabs" or what ever their called on Android & she only has the stock icons on the main tab & a music player on another. Nothing else setup.
As for 3rd party apps on WP7, yes they're a bit lacking, but I hardly ever use any. I have a few games & 3rd party apps installed, but most of what I do is handled by the core WP7 functionality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u earned a thanks from me. I do believe that th apps will get better once the mango ones hit the marketplace. I rarely use them tho as like yourself almost everything I do can be done in the OS on its own
I am on mango, here is my list:
Pros:
Smoothness
The live tiles (I know it sounds like the windows phone catchphase but mango upped the info and style of them and made them a powerful tool)
Social network intergation (having the people and messaging hubs allow you to do 80% of the stuff that you do on it I.E. Facebook and having the cache locally instead of waiting for an app to pull it live from the site.
Search and bing vision, audio, local scout (having it all at your fingertip)
Tellme! The voice command is awesome and I sometimes use it to show off =)
Metro UI, simple and clean and easy to look at
IE it is the smoothest browser around, no checkering
Cons:
Customization
Playing app catchup (mango should fix it and see a lot of ports from iOS and android very soon)
Video scrubbing
No way to bring back toast notications
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.
hardcoreplur said:
The biggest thing is once you start use wp7, it grows on you and you find ways to do what you want and most of the time it is a better way than on any other device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is probably one of the best descriptions I've heard about WP7 & couldn't be more true. While WP7 is not perfect. It does indeed grow on your & 99% of what you need to to you can figure out how to do in some ingenious ways. It is a beautiful thought out OS.
omnomnomkimiiee said:
Notifications aren't a problem, I don't really use them. What really interested me was how all the "essential" stuff seemed accessible really easily, and that the whole GUI is clean/optimised.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GUI and the essential smart-phone stuff (email, calendar, contacts, social media integration) work really well. I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised!
Bad things you'll discovered compared to iOS is lack or apps, and lack of google maps and other google services. Remember WP7 uses Bing, which is very USA-centric, and Microsoft keep regions very cut off from each other. So if you do live in France as your avatar suggests, you may find several features (such as maps and local scout) don't work, and the French app store may be pretty sparse (and no you won't be allowed to access the UK or US one).
I 2nd that. WP7 as far as services go is a worse experience outside the US, & something you should look into before making a decision.
Many people complains about the need for Zune Sync instead USB Mass Storage. I am the opposite one - I like this better. Why?
You are sure, that the phone will play the music or movie (converting 1.5 hours long movie took 3 minutes on my PC).
Also, when you are watching movie on phone, then close it somewhere during the movie, sync the phone to PC and open the movie in PC (through Zune), it will continue where you left off - that is something that without Zune Sync can't be done.
I use Zune for listening to music anyway. Just drag & drop the music on icon of your phone and once you connect it, it synces all the changes and adds music and what not.
And major PRO for WP7 is the UI. Best UI around. UI designed for phone from beginning, that is not just rows and columns of icons.
So I'm working on a post for my site. It's going to be a list about things a developer does with an application that frustrates us as users. The goal is to highlight common complains from the community about practices devs use in their apps and to hopefully encourage them with feedback to improve.
This is the list I've got so far. Please feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree and ADD any things that bug you as a USER.
--Lack of a live tile: One of the biggest differences on our platforms and others is the inclusion of live tiles. If it makes sense for the application, a live tile is a must. I'm hard pressed to find a large category of apps where a live tile wouldn't make sense at some basic level.
--No fast app switching: No explanation needed, devs get with it.
--Not playing nice with Metro: You make an app for iOS or Android and now you want to port it Windows Phone as fast as possible...so fast you don't think about the design. Great apps on Windows Phone are those that capitalize on the principles of the design language.
--Have both a paid and free version of an app: Do a search for an app in the Market or App Store and you'll get two versions for a lot of popular apps: the free and paid version. There is NO reason why you would need to do that with Windows Phone. Devs have the ability to implement a 'trial' state of an application where they can do everything and more a 'free' version of an app could. Stop cluttering the Marketplace.
--Redirecting to a website: I once downloaded a sports app that had potential. I opened the app and played around. There was a pivot page that had a section for news. Clicked it...and bam. IE is opening up. Nope, no thank you. I want to use your app now your website.
These are some of the big themes that I've encountered more than I should when playing around with apps. This is not a major problem, but it's there and it really shouldn't be.
Also I'm not trying to put developers down, I know it's hard work and I myself am trying to learn as well. But we should strive for something better.
Alright, sound off with some feedback guys. Any other 'sins against users' I've missed that you encounter? I'd like to see what you think before I write the post on my site.
ALSOOOO.... How about you list some apps that contain these 'sins against users'. That way we can politely invite the developer to hear our thoughts and implement changes that benefit everyone. Happy users = $, $= happy dev.
All these are minor.. My biggest complaint is when push notification is either delayed or doesnt come at all. I've missed some important whatsapp messages cause it was delayed 10 mins.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
samsabri said:
[...]
--Have both a paid and free version of an app: Do a search for an app in the Market or App Store and you'll get two versions for a lot of popular apps: the free and paid version. There is NO reason why you would need to do that with Windows Phone. Devs have the ability to implement a 'trial' state of an application where they can do everything and more a 'free' version of an app could. Stop cluttering the Marketplace.
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.
Marvin_S said:
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Some devs don't mention what the trial offers(time-limited or function-limited) and hence I stay away from such paid apps. Sometimes the trial is fully functional with ads. Agreed that the devs were lazy to not include it in the description, but some users are lazy too. That would be the reason for two versions of the app.
it not being available at all.
or how about it's free on android or ios, but $3 on wp7... wtf?
Marvin_S said:
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I understand the marketing angle. I guess I live in some fantasy land in my head where the world is clean and organized. Hopefully with the Windows 8 Marketplace offering devs simliliar options in how they can implement trials we'll see less "free" apps because users may come expect every paid app to come with a trial.
svtfmook said:
it not being available at all.
or how about it's free on android or ios, but $3 on wp7... wtf?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is something I missed, I how they determine the price difference between platforms?
Off the top of your head, do any apps come to mind where there is a big price difference in platforms? Exclude Xbox Live enabled games for a moment, the reason being I can see the inclusion of achievements, leaderboards, etc to be the cause of the price bump.
I'm in need of a map/location/gps app, that supports offline map caching . while I found couple of them on marketplace, ones that had nice design an functionality, all of them where online only and ones that had offline map caching had terrible design an absolutely no functionality. thats sad
design and functionality should be put first IMO
Inconsistent Resuming and Lack of Tombstoning
Once an app leaves the foreground you have two methods of returning to it: use the app switcher or hitting the tile on your Start screen. Going from the app switcher resumes as expected, but going from the Start screen restarts the app, even if it's already sitting in the background. Now this is probably something Microsoft has to fix, but I feel that if more apps tombstoned, then it could make things more consistent.
samsabri said:
That is something I missed, I how they determine the price difference between platforms?
Off the top of your head, do any apps come to mind where there is a big price difference in platforms? Exclude Xbox Live enabled games for a moment, the reason being I can see the inclusion of achievements, leaderboards, etc to be the cause of the price bump.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes if they would note next to the price tag of each app wheter it contains a Trial version, it is less needed for devs to release a seperate "Lite" version. However the problem is now you have to click the app first than wait until the buttons show up in order to find out wheter an app has a free trial.
This should be there on the big scroll list so a user will see at first glance wheter he/she can try the app for free. At the moment I can't blame dev's for introducing their own workarounds.
But what is more annoying to me is that if devs follow metro design and don't use the margins correctly. Hence the app looks odd in comparison to the native apps, i.e. a lot of chat apps mimick the messaging app but don't pay attention to the margins, the bubble sizes and the bubble alignments, which will make them look very unprofessional. This is sad because they did take the effort to stylize the app like Metro, but they ruined the experience because of not "understanding" the fundamentals of the design language. Which is not just typography but also clever and precise use of margins, shapes and spacings. And since there is not much chrome, every tiny offset or error stands out to a trained eye instantly.
Marvin_S said:
Yes if they would note next to the price tag of each app wheter it contains a Trial version, it is less needed for devs to release a seperate "Lite" version. However the problem is now you have to click the app first than wait until the buttons show up in order to find out wheter an app has a free trial.
This should be there on the big scroll list so a user will see at first glance wheter he/she can try the app for free. At the moment I can't blame dev's for introducing their own workarounds.
But what is more annoying to me is that if devs follow metro design and don't use the margins correctly. Hence the app looks odd in comparison to the native apps, i.e. a lot of chat apps mimick the messaging app but don't pay attention to the margins, the bubble sizes and the bubble alignments, which will make them look very unprofessional. This is sad because they did take the effort to stylize the app like Metro, but they ruined the experience because of not "understanding" the fundamentals of the design language. Which is not just typography but also clever and precise use of margins, shapes and spacings. And since there is not much chrome, every tiny offset or error stands out to a trained eye instantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think going forward an ideal scenario would be a user expects to have a trial mode for any app that a dev is asking money for. It's a win-win for both consumers and developers. Check out this post from Paul Laberge explaining some of the benefits of a trial mode.
Seems like your second paragraph is echoing the statement to follow metro design language/principles and aim for higher quality control in regards to the design.
It's interesting, I feel like 5 years ago software was all about being functional with no regard to design. Now we not only demand, but expect applications to function well and look beautiful. Exciting times
karan1203 said:
All these are minor.. My biggest complaint is when push notification is either delayed or doesnt come at all. I've missed some important whatsapp messages cause it was delayed 10 mins.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are those faults of the developer or the platform itself? I ask because I don't know a lot of the technical workings behind the push notification system. My limited knowledge tells me it might be a mix of both parties to blame.
Can anyone clarify?
apps?
For sure about Notifications part.
Push Notification can be useful "ONLY" when you have the phone right in front of your face. Because right after that, they are gone forever.
Second, Push Notification usually have a delay , about a half to 2 mins, from the actual event.
Like my friend can post a thing on my Facebook Wall, and the phone took about 2 mins to update it to the ME title. Same with all other Applications.
I used to try hacking the ROM and Registry of the Phone to reduce the delay of the Title Update. But failed so hard because Microsoft really locked it up hard.
I think most of the annoyances are captured already in the initial post but I'll also add
-That some apps are still being released without mango capability.
-Some apps are just the mobile site (for example the tagged app wtf?)
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
I think most of the annoyances are captured already in the initial post but I'll also add
-That some apps are still being released without mango capability.
-Some apps are just the mobile site (for example the tagged app wtf?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was hoping I'd cover the most obvious complaints, but wanted to reach out and see if anything was missing. Also venting is good for us
And regarding Tagged...? Wow... I just looked at it on the web Marketplace and I won't let something that hideous touch my phone. It's just lazy and doesn't add any value to users or devs. Users get nothing out of it and as a dev what have you accomplished?
Apps like that should not pass certification. It seems draconian, but it's ok for us to demand and expect quality work.
wixostrix said:
...but going from the Start screen restarts the app, even if it's already sitting in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is (or was pre-Mango) a requirement to have your app certified. The rules say/said that a user returning to a task via the Back button is trying to complete an interupted task; a user launching the app from Start is starting a new task and shouldn't be presented with abandoned work from earlier.
I have a calculator app that maintains full state across invocations. I was worried that MS would reject the app because it preserved state even upon restarting. They did accept it, though.
Worst thing for me is wasted screen space.
A good example is the official WP7 Facebook app. Go to the "wall" screen, and you have "FACEBOOK" then "Most Recent" then "What's on your mind?" all permanently stuck at the top. Space is also wasted at both sides, meaning that only 50-60% of the screen is actually available to display your friends wall posts.
I thought the idea of Metro is to "put information first", so this is ridiculous. I have a phone with a 3.7" screen, yet the facebook app is more readable on my friends 3" non-widescreen Blackberry.
Aphasaic2002 said:
Worst thing for me is wasted screen space.
A good example is the official WP7 Facebook app. Go to the "wall" screen, and you have "FACEBOOK" then "Most Recent" then "What's on your mind?" all permanently stuck at the top. Space is also wasted at both sides, meaning that only 50-60% of the screen is actually available to display your friends wall posts.
I thought the idea of Metro is to "put information first", so this is ridiculous. I have a phone with a 3.7" screen, yet the facebook app is more readable on my friends 3" non-widescreen Blackberry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you on that Facebook app. Thankfully the integration with Windows Phone makes it so that I haven't opened it in months. I check FB once a day on the browser at home before bed, but that's about it.
But I'll chalk this complaint under the 'design abuse' category.
Anyone have any other apps that violate some of our sins in the original post in this thread?
I'd like to see improvements with the sound handeling. Most games have a 'music volume' and a 'FX volume' it seems the volume % is boolean, 0% is silent, 10%-100% is full volume. I'd like to listen to my music while gaming without the Pew Pew causing my ears to bleed