Related
Well, looking at all the current mobile OS's,
looks like i will stay with good old WM6.x for a long time.
- I want to listen to music and do something else - 1GH CPU for 1 single task? *gggg*
- I give a **** on multitouch - It's just a hype and makes handling worse...
I want to use my device with one hand!
Scrolling through a list with 20 pages? I praise the scrollbar!!
- I need simple and just working tethering
- I want to take and sync notes
- Capacitive screen? Forget it!
Come on, i've tried it an its a lot more inaccurate, then any resistive screen i know.
Same hype as multitouch...
- etc,etc,etc
I'm really wondering where the development goes - more and more eyecandy...
just my 2cents
ReflexNPG said:
Well, looking at all the current mobile OS's,
looks like i will stay with good old WM6.x for a long time.
- I want to listen to music and do something else - 1GH CPU for 1 single task? *gggg*
- I give a **** on multitouch - It's just a hype and makes handling worse...
I want to use my device with one hand!
Scrolling through a list with 20 pages? I praise the scrollbar!!
- I need simple and just working tethering
- I want to take and sync notes
- Capacitive screen? Forget it!
Come on, i've tried it an its a lot more inaccurate, then any resistive screen i know.
Same hype as multitouch...
- etc,etc,etc
I'm really wondering where the development goes - more and more eyecandy...
just my 2cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think you're wrong about most of what you typed. WM does have multitasking just not the way you're used to...hell if you check some of my other posts...you'll see it. scroll bars are useless with kinetic scrolling. Capacitive screens allow for more accurate sure presses. You gotta get past the simple and embrace something new. It might be something better but you won't know unless you try...but by all means stick it out with 6.5.3 its awesome in its own right. You just shouldn't bash till you see a finished copy..I could be wrong
~style~
Check this article. Straight from the designer. We really have to wait for MIX to see for sure, but it all depends on the implementation.
ReflexNPG said:
- I give a **** on multitouch - It's just a hype and makes handling worse...
I want to use my device with one hand!
Scrolling through a list with 20 pages? I praise the scrollbar!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multitouch doesn't impress me either.
I use real paper and paint for fingerpainting.
Don't panic and stay calm!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=633571
From this you can see, that it's based on WinCE 7.0. So it's multi-task-able.
If there would not be "multi-taks" by default, i bet xda-gurus will bring a path to make it available
Another thing, that MS is a customer-oriented company. They make things that ppl buy, if ppl don't buy, they improve it
If they get feature request like "multi-tasking", they will implement it
style1 said:
i think you're wrong about most of what you typed. WM does have multitasking just not the way you're used to...hell if you check some of my other posts...you'll see it. scroll bars are useless with kinetic scrolling. Capacitive screens allow for more accurate sure presses. You gotta get past the simple and embrace something new. It might be something better but you won't know unless you try...but by all means stick it out with 6.5.3 its awesome in its own right. You just shouldn't bash till you see a finished copy..I could be wrong
~style~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
capacitive screens allow for more accurate presses?
ur an idiot...
style1 said:
i think you're wrong about most of what you typed. .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe, but thats my opinion & experience - i type with my nail (impossible on cs) and now please tell me which cs device is more accurate?
All implementations of kinetic "eye candy" scrolling i know, are bad in some way. They are inaccurate, laggy or both There is no indication where in the list i am located -> See all the guys rubbing their fingers 2 or 3 times on the screen, just to understand "oh i'm at the end"?
Ok, it will have some kind of multitasking - but i will depend on the folks of xda to make mortscript or autohotkey to work
Maybe you should rethink about your position: Not every new thing is good for the customer...
For example: Compact disc, DVB-x (T,S,C), flat screens, audio downloads with DRM ...
The core operating system is a modern multitasking operating system. If you play music for example, the music will play back as you navigate around the experience...if you're using email, we have great support for push email and that happens in the background.
For third party applications—we'll get into a lot more detail on this in MIX—but we have a few ways we're going to make sure that third parties can bring their value to the user even when the app is not running. Live tiles are an example. Data feeds in the hubs are another example for some apps.
http://pocketnow.com/software-1/mwc-can-windows-phone-7-series-multitask
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Click to collapse
What i think about is a bit more complicated. The OS Does support Multitasking i guess but we will not need to keep the apps running in the background. if the application needs to wait for something to work, it will notify the OS what to look for and once it happens the OS will start the required app.
Makes sense doesn't it? this will give more than just multi tasking capability to the devices without the need of wasting RAM for background processes or apps that wait for something to happen.
jug6ernaut said:
ur an idiot...
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Click to collapse
It will be some "iPhone style" of multitasking, but it's crappy in my opinion - http://pockethacks.com/what-about-multitasking-in-windows-phone-7-series/
micro$oft really took HUGE steps back with this. no multitasking, no flash, no copy/paste, no customizing. yeah im not digging this at all. ill stick with my hero.
jug6ernaut said:
capacitive screens allow for more accurate presses?
ur an idiot...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardly even called for, one would figure with your post count you would understand basic forum rules about flaming but I guess thats non sequitur. Either way I guess I should just go off spouting at the fingers without qualifying or justifying what I'm really trying to say. 'Accurate presses' meaning I don't have to continuously tap the screen 2-3 times just to get a simple press as I have to do currently with my Acer and have had to do with my previous HTC. Miss types are bound to happen and thats true but there are many cases when I'll tap the screen and wont get a response because the resistive touch screen uses pressure to sense where you press, more accurate presses stems from the technology of capacitive screens themselves being that you don't actually require pressure to operate the screen leading to less miss types. I'm not trying to offend you or anyone else, I'm really just making debate as this is the biggest thing to happen to Windows mobile since its creation. I'll fade back to the shadows...you guys carry on, I'll lurk..lol
~style~
EDIT"no multitasking, no flash, no copy/paste, no customizing..." please be prepared to offer some sort of proof to this... The Reps were saying that copy and paste had not be optimized yet...meaning it had not be implemented into the build at that stage. Multitasking is in fact part of the OS, Flash has been announced as not being included at launch but will be added...and customizing....really??? So do people honestly believe that Samsung, HTC, ASUS, Acer, Toshiba, Garmin, etc all plan on just releasing the EXACT SAME PHONE WITH NO DIFFERENCES? of course there will be customizing or else M$ could have just released the phone themselves and made all the profit similar to apple
I think the push notification system is god awful. Lets take irc for example. I want to keep that running in the background but it REQUIRES a persistent connection and the app to reply to pings and ctcp's etc. So i sell my irc app for x dollars to the customer. In order to give them a good experience i have to either 1: Supply them with a list of free bnc servers, 2 add a subscription so i can host a server to keep the app supplied with info when it wakes up, or 3. incur a cost greater than what i sell the app for in order for people o not be pissed.
Microsoft definitely listened to the people when they made this. Just the wrong people. People that don't use winmo. All the hate that wino got has been rectified and now the people who were enthusiastic about winmo aren't very happy.
My next phone provided microsoft dosen't get its act together will be a Meizu m8, a china ohone running a skinned version of wince, a Bada phone, android or symbian. EVEN SYMBIAN DIDNT DECIDE TO SCREW AROUND WITH ITS EXISTING FANBASE. Iphone is not an option, I just personaly hate them more than google.
ok my last post...I promise...its a long look at windows phone 7 enjoy
~style~
style1 said:
Hardly even called for, one would figure with your post count you would understand basic forum rules about flaming but I guess thats non sequitur. Either way I guess I should just go off spouting at the fingers without qualifying or justifying what I'm really trying to say. 'Accurate presses' meaning I don't have to continuously tap the screen 2-3 times just to get a simple press as I have to do currently with my Acer and have had to do with my previous HTC. Miss types are bound to happen and thats true but there are many cases when I'll tap the screen and wont get a response because the resistive touch screen uses pressure to sense where you press, more accurate presses stems from the technology of capacitive screens themselves being that you don't actually require pressure to operate the screen leading to less miss types. I'm not trying to offend you or anyone else, I'm really just making debate as this is the biggest thing to happen to Windows mobile since its creation. I'll fade back to the shadows...you guys carry on, I'll lurk..lol
~style~
EDIT"no multitasking, no flash, no copy/paste, no customizing..." please be prepared to offer some sort of proof to this... The Reps were saying that copy and paste had not be optimized yet...meaning it had not be implemented into the build at that stage. Multitasking is in fact part of the OS, Flash has been announced as not being included at launch but will be added...and customizing....really??? So do people honestly believe that Samsung, HTC, ASUS, Acer, Toshiba, Garmin, etc all plan on just releasing the EXACT SAME PHONE WITH NO DIFFERENCES? of course there will be customizing or else M$ could have just released the phone themselves and made all the profit similar to apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well no offence to u also but u are 100% wrong.
resistive is easilly more accurate honestly u cant even compare them. what ur referring to is the software which is made for capacitive screens...made for the less accurate screens....
while i understand ur opinion around capacitive screens u have a very bad understanding of how capacitive/resistive screens and the relative software works and how its differinciated.
style1 said:
'Accurate presses' meaning I don't have to continuously tap the screen 2-3 times just to get a simple press as I have to do currently with my Acer and have had to do with my previous HTC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sorry, but this is simply not true: all my phones never missed a touch (Blackstone, Trinity, Magician). Maybe its cause you are not using your nail?
Now just watch the windows 7 video:http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/LauraFoy/First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo/
1. scene (3. min) the guy tries to scroll down - ups does not work - again. And this is what i hate about capacitive "swish swish UI's".
Its a waste of time - every second.
I'm happy with Pocket Plus and Pocket Breeze on my today screen!
lol.. I have no idea how I keep getting drawn back into this..but I guess I shouldn't waste time trying to clarify I'll just redefine since we obviously sit at on different sides of the fence here...Let me just try again. Capacitive screens are more RESPONSIVE to the touch than are resistive touch screens. I guess that would be the better way to put it. There really is no arguing this point, when I said accurate earlier i mean it as they screen registering what is being done to it and reacting accordingly. And yes, the video walk through with Laura Foy had its UI hickups but its unoptimized software running on a prototype unit (ASUS) its not like they are walking around touting it as a finished product read to ship...They are projecting to ship by the "holiday's" so we have 7-9 months before they will be shipping. I don't know what else to say.
Also in clarification, as to mistouches on resistive touch screens, I don't type with a nail or stylus I use my finger to press the key and I expect that the phone itself will understand what is happening and respond accordingly. I have epic, and I mean EPIC fails on my resistive touch screen. Why? not because I got fat fingers (which I don't) but because the screen isn't sensitive enough.
Since jug6ernaut believes I'm borderline retarded...I guess I'll drop some knowledge. Resistive touch screen works by using 2 or more electrically charged layers with a gap between them. When you press the screen down the first layer fills the gap and touches the second layer thereby causing and electrically event registered as a press. Yes it is more accurate in the sense that you can touch it with a stylus and it will press exactly where you point, but if you press the screen and the two layers don't touch its isn't registered as a press, thereby creating missed presses on the screen. This isn't just some crap that affects only windows its ALL RESISTIVE screens...so if you've never ever mistyped then you are in a very small minority. It has nothing to do with software...its all HARDWARE.
Capacitive screens on the otherhand when they fail it can be attributed to software because unlike Resistive screens, capacitive is just glass coated with an invisible conductor...since we also conduct electricity anytime we touch the screen it distorts the level of capacitance (its a word) thereby registering as a touch. The electricity however has to run through software created by developers to read and understand how that touch related to the UI and software.
But what do I know....Hell I only do this for a living...lol. Anyway I'm not trying to pick a fight with any of you. Just trying to separate fact and fiction.
~style~
Capacitive screens are more RESPONSIVE to the touch than are resistive touch screens. I guess that would be the better way to put it.
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Click to collapse
Yep. Because they are definitely less accurate. More responsive but less accurate.
I'm looking forward to the WP7 approach. The big pain in using WM and it's predecessors for the past 15+ years is that it's slow and hangs a lot. I'll trade all those years of waiting for a WM device to respond for a fast, responsive interface. All I really need is smooth app switching...not multi-tasking.
I like the new approach. Finally, speed comes first.
I've used resistive screens for most of my life - had Sharp Zauruses, Sony Clies, Kaiser, Pro2, Xperia. The Pro2 has the best resistive screen that I've used.
Around a week ago I got an HD2, and honestly, the capacitive screen is a fantastic improvement!
The vast majority of people would agree that capacitive is far superior in terms of feel. It may be less accurate in some ways, but as long as the software is designed well, this shouldn't be a big problem, and there are many benefits to it (light touch, multi touch, flat screen which you can use as a mirror, nice look & feel of glass).
Multi touch can be implemented as a gimmick, but can also be very useful and add a new dynamic to controlling software via a touch screen (e.g. google earth on Ipod/Iphone).
Anyhow, I'm looking forward to seeing how Windows Phone 7 turns out - I'm reserving my judgements until I can try it, and see how easy it is for people to customise it.
To me, personally, the newest winmo doesnt look that amazing. 6.5 with touch flo 3D (Or htc sense, whatever), looks much nicer. Microsoft wont let you skin 7, and you are very limited to certian hardware. I'm getting a HD2, and if a update comes out for winmo7, im sticking with "classic". Time to change my signature!
I completely disagree but to each his own.
When you get to use it in person your opinion will change. Sense is nice though.
I like Touch Flo and I'm using it right now on my Touch Pro2 but I'm looking forward to WP7.
WP7S looks far more advanced, clean and has a much better UI Experience than the super laggy, buggy WM 6.5 can ever have!
GamerMYJ said:
Is it just me, or does winmo6.5 look better than "windows phone 7 series"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's just you.
It depends on your own preference. I personally prefer practicality over ascetics! its more about using the phone than having it as a status symbol for me! Im glad they are moving away from resistive screens and stylus navigation and 6.5.3 is pretty good for that now anyway.
I still think the specs they require will not stop it being ported onto current devices.
I'm sure it's not just you, but that's because WP7 design principles are a bit ahead of time on devices - everyone's used to faux 3D and "cute icons". The concept used in WP7 is prominent on the web - you have plenty of "chromeless UI" there, where "content is the interface". If you think a little, the Web is a really amazing thing from the usability perspective, in most cases you can go to an unfamiliar web site and without any training or preparation maze your way through a very complex underlying structure to get where you want to be. That's what MS is trying to do here as well - you don't have icons and buttons; text and images are the buttons. The visual "hints" like stuff on the side and text "not fitting" the screen are quite natural indicators of showing that there's something else, and are used instead of a "More" or "Advanced" buttons which, in these paradigm, are just unneeded clutter, or UI garbage. So there's a lot of practicality behind this concept, in fact. Whether the implementation will be practical and/or will get widespread adoption remains to be seen, of course.
This appear to me like following conversations might have happened at MS hardquarters:
Dev: Hey I can't get the 3D effects running smooth. But with more money I can do it!
Chief: No money. Screw this 3D things. Just write some plain text instead.
Dev: Oh! We also have problems with multitasking. Already the first screens after booting up are so slow. I need more money and I can fix it!
Chief: No money. Just disable multitasking!
From what I have seen of Windows Mobile 7, I'm not exactly chomping at the bit for it. I will try it out when it's released on here but I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up going back to 6.5.5.
I choose winmo 6.5.3
I think it's not you. I, for one, also think that WP7 is a "failure". It's totally not that impressive as the iPhone OS in the beginning and Android currently. With this WP7, they got themselves disqualified for the Mobile OS race!
i completely agree, i perfer bog standard winmo 6.5 with htc home and spb pocket plus installed on my today screen, i dont bother with touch flow or any other ui's i know how to use my phone its functional practacal and an amazing bit of kit, i dont care if it looks pretty or is in 3d, but its nice to know i have the hardware if i need it , i cant see me getting a win7 series os on my phone untill someone on here has hacked it to death and got it a bit more FUN,
I prefer the stock looking WM6.1 (yes, I'm using WM6.5 without the start menu, it sux) on the new builds if I hit the Start button it makes me feel like I have a Nokia crap in my hands.... f*** the globalization
I'm thinking of switching from T-mobile to a CDMA network(due to poor GSM coverage in my area) but neither Sprint nor Verizion has any decent windows mobile phones like the HD2. So I was thinking since some people got the TP2 to run droid, shouldn't someone be able to get the EVO to run Winmobile since its hardware is so similar to the HD2?
Thanks guys,
-Beaver_2
This is certainly the first time I've heard of something like that. Why would you want Windows Mobile ruining such a great device anyway?
'cause it rocks. 'cause it has so much info and access on its main screen. I'm starting to wonder why we need 5 or 7 screens other than just to have 5 or 7 screens, but I must admit I would want 5 or 7 screens just to have 5 or 7 screens, but I want winmo's sense on the main screen.
The short answer.... No.
dwizzy130
wow, when did I become a senior member?
I'm just a dork drooling over a new phone. Can't wait! Android it is I guess.
Manicmobileaddict said:
I'm just a dork drooling over a new phone. Can't wait! Android it is I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
12 posts ago.lol And yea. Android it is. I hate to say it... but I may switch even after 4 years of WM awesomeness. I know I'm not going to WP7, and I'm sure not going to a dumbphone. Android is the only (good) alternative. I'm just waiting for an EVO with a physical keyboard.
dwizzy130
wp7
If nothing else it's just fugly.
Why WinMo
I too would like WinMo 6.5 on EVO for a few reasons:
1. Zune. Zune. Zune. I can sync up play lists DRM music etc with it via WMP11 to WinMo. It may not be pretty and beautiful, but it works. The Zune service on PC is much better than iTunes. Don't argue with me if you haven't used it, you just don't know.
2. 1GHz snapdragon. Touch Pro 2 only has 528 MHz processor and drags a little on WinMo 6.5.
3. Not huge on separated non-integrated applications. Zune, GPSnav (recently added bing turn-by-turn), web, phone, email, text and maybe tether/wifi router. I don't want to pay for software I don't really need.
4. Not so important, but worth mentioning...business focused integration. Ability to operate closely w/ cloud or on it's own.
Ideally, I'd have a QWERTY slider with the 1GHz or better, WinMo 6.5.x (skeptical about WP7, but looking forward to it), real GPS (not via cell tower), WiFi/AP capable w/ WPA(2). I can write little apps that I might need...because WinMo is open, not controlled like apple or android market.
That's why.
Well I don't see it happening because ..
1: Winmo is not open source and phone makers have to pay for the license (It's not open source like android *linux*)so anyone trying to port it to a non licensed device risk getting sued by MS this making it sorda warez'y and prob couldn't be discussed on this site or most.
2. winmo 6.x is getting killed by backwards compat of 7.x so most developers wouldn't put the effort
3. winmo is getting kinda old and this is coming from someone who used winmo since 2002. :/
RazorBlazE said:
3. winmo is getting kinda old...
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Click to collapse
Getting old? winmo is ancient, in tech time!!!!!
ANYONE, that has actually used WinMo (Any version) and then used an Android device should know better.
In fact there should be an IQ test for those people buying "Smart Phones." if you're not smarter than the phone you can't have it dummy..
Serioulsy, if you're still stuck on WinMo you shouldn't be allowed to own an Android device.
Windows Mobile is dead dude. It's a wasted effort and Android is gaining market share like crazy.
RIM is still competitive because there are so many Suits that are stuck on it, but eventually the'll face the same fate as Winmo Fanboys.
Lastly, if anyone EVER puts windows mobile on the Evo I'll find a way to report you for something, somewhere, it's just plain stupid.
The last winmo device I used was htc mogul. The device it's self was flawed, but winmo it's self has it's advantages. There is metric ton of software that hasn't yet or will never be ported to android. Winmo is more stylus friendly whereas android is more finger friendly. Seeing the evo has a capacitive touch screen, you'll be beating your head into a wall in more ways than one.
Although I hope to never see it ported honestly, the easiest solution is getting a hd2 it has winmo and is almost the exact same thing as the evo minus the wimax and hdmi.
my 2c
johnsongrantr said:
The last winmo device I used was htc mogul. The device it's self was flawed, but winmo it's self has it's advantages. There is metric ton of software that hasn't yet or will never be ported to android. Winmo is more stylus friendly whereas android is more finger friendly. Seeing the evo has a capacitive touch screen, you'll be beating your head into a wall in more ways than one.
Although I hope to never see it ported honestly, the easiest solution is getting a hd2 it has winmo and is almost the exact same thing as the evo minus the wimax and hdmi.
my 2c
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and the 8MP camera, the front facing camera, 720p video recording, bigger battery
I need to use the Supra Ekey. that's the only reason I've been sticking with Windows Mobile
Does anyone know if they will be able to port Windows 3.1 to the Evo? I really want it, but I want to use a crappy outdated operating system that will ensure I won't be able to use half the hardware features.
Also, I know it's unrelated, but does anyone know how to replace the engine in my Ferrari with one from a lawn mower? I just really love the pull-start.
Thanks!
I was wondering the same thing, that is the possibility of running Windows Mobile on the phone. But I guess by the looks of it there wont be any chefs releasing any roms. Reason I need Windows Mobile is for my business. We run custom financial quoting software and the company recently spent a butt load of money porting the entire app from Palm to Windows Mobile... hopefully they port it to Android.
Bought a Hero, like Winmo better than Android
So my kid trashed his old Sanyo flip phone (probably because we had been talking about getting him a new phone for his birthday). Two days before his birthday he apparently tripped and dropped his phone and it shattered on a dirt road. Looks like he must have accidentally stepped on it also (accidentally about ten times).
So I've checked it out and have come to the conclusion that when I get my Evo I will greatly miss Winmo. I'm not saying Winmo is better or worse than Android. It is just a little different and it comes down to personal preference. There are some advantages to each. Froyo will catch up on somethings (storage card support).
I prefer Sense on Winmo because I like the dashboard like setup. Android is more like a desktop. I like getting lots of info on my home page without having to navigate anywhere and think Winmo has the advantage there.
I like how the Android screens allow you to place your shortcuts where you want, but it still has its limitations. I like full screen widgets (several Winmo Sense offers) and with Andoid I could only have 6. I tried setting up a lot of widgets on my kids phone and kept getting the message "there is not enough rooom" and those weren't even full screen widgets. If I wanted 6 full screen widgets there would be no more room for shortcuts or folders.
There is the all programs screen which is really just like Winmo's start screen.
I use a Winmo 6.5.x so the start button is in the same place the all programs button is on Android Sense. Winmo has the phone soft button just like Android, but I change it to something else since I already have a phone hard button. Can Android do that? Winmo also has another softkey that can be customized, Android has the + to add things to the home screen.
I think the slider (hideable) on Winmo Sense is the greatest invention on the touch phone yet. Andoid even uses it in some apps like in the people app. The Winmo Sense home screen has the clock and weather just like Andriod sense, but also has phone history and 1 to 3 rows links 3 wide and flicks up to expose a larger grid.
If you use Cookie's home tab editor the links grid (which handle any link not just app shortcuts) can be customized to 4 or 5 across with multiple pages to 80 links. I think it even flicks up further to expose just your background or down to no links giving more home page room for phone history or calendar. You can even display other counters like texts and emails.
If you use his advanced home tab you can switch between the calendar appointments and tasks by flicking left and right. If you add BattClock you can display even more info like some metrics digitally on the taks bar or even graphically in thin stripes/bars where you want it on the home screen. Use WKTask and now you have a task manager that shows you what's open on the task bar. Lots of info and one touch access as soon as you turn on your phone.
If I could have all this on the Android home screen and have the 7 screens I'd be in heaven. Again, I'm not saying one is better than the other and I'm sure there is lots of customization in Android I haven't learned about yet so if anyone knows how I can get the best of both worlds please advise.
What I really want to see is not WinMo, but let's get WebOS on here.
If only it was open source. lol
gthing said:
Does anyone know if they will be able to port Windows 3.1 to the Evo? I really want it, but I want to use a crappy outdated operating system that will ensure I won't be able to use half the hardware features.
Also, I know it's unrelated, but does anyone know how to replace the engine in my Ferrari with one from a lawn mower? I just really love the pull-start.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the best laugh I've had all day!!
I understand the Evo is the new phone to have, but if you love WinMo so much, go to the HD2. Same body type, comparable hardware, and the failsauce os you love. Have fun with 6.5
This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.
I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.
I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.
nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code
To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!
I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.
What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.
The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy
I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.
AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.
From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.
dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.
bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.
Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.
smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.
I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.
Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
Plus, don't chalk up poor performance and lack of BT to Android... our builds are NOT like native Android phones - don't expect it to be anytime soon either... Perhaps one day we'll get it close, but this phone has a tired old processor. Not many native Android phones have our slow processors & run Froyo
Heck, we'll probably run Gingerbread before 90% of the native Android devices officially get it!
Either way, this is just meant to be tested/had fun with. It's not supposed to replace WinMo
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.
arrrghhh said:
Well I guess it depends on how you look at it... there's no registry, but there's so many other ways to modify things within Android... After all, the source code is all available, and with a little bit of knowledge you can change anything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.
****ing confirmed yihaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
F22 said:
Personally I consider the lack of a registry a -good- thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed... sometimes
Miami_Son said:
Yeah, I didn't expect it to be a replacement. I'm sure if I invested the time (like I have with WinMo) I would find all kinds of ways to bend Android to my will. I guess I just like what I'm used to better. The Android interface is too iPhone like for my tastes. I like having program groups, not a page full of icons of unrelated programs that I have to scroll through. I like that I have different backgrounds on all my screens and that I can access System items by category instead of scrolling through menu after menu. I did spend some time looking through the Android Market and was impressed by the number of apps, especially free ones, but I've yet to not find an app available for WinMo for the way I use the phone, most of them free, as well. I'm not convinced that Windows Phone 7 is the answer and I will NEVER buy an iPhone, so I will probably end up on some Android phone in the future. At least, thanks to this little preview, I know I don't need to switch anytime soon and can keep using my Tilt 2 until it dies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you 100% there! I still love playing with XDAndroid though... any time I start getting bored with WinMo I come play with it. One thing it did clarify for me is the difference between 'application' (WinMo) and 'app' (Android and IPhone) and I now understand why there are more 'apps' on the market... they're more single purpose where WinMo is more of a 'suite'.
This is not a flame as much as it is a testament to the great dev's here at XDA who work so hard at making these Android ports.
Having been forced to use WinMo due to "company policy" and using an Android device on the "sly", I would take Android over WinMo hands down. That is my personal opinion and choice.
And apparently the DEV's have done a great job at porting over XDAndroid to the TP2/Tilt2 as I noticed Miami_Son's signature now states Samsung Captivate (Android Device) as the primary phone and HTC Tilt 2 as "(going soon)."
I just found some humor in that.
Miami_Son said:
I don't think I am a fan of Android. I admit, I was enthused, at first, but after spending a few days playing around with XDAndroid on my Tilt 2, I'm convinced that I'm in no hurry to upgrade my phone. I've been a WinMo user since 2003, so I'm pretty familiar with its strengths and weaknesses and how to overcome most of them. Droid does some things well (reflowing web pages when zooming is one), but it seems more like a Mac to me in the way that a lot of the OS is inaccessible to the user unlike WinMo. As a tinkerer/modder, I feel like WinMo lets me get under the hood easier and better and in more ways. I'm sure my short exposure to Android is probably not unbiased, but I just couldn't find the customizability level that WinMo has built-in to it. It looks good, it worked OK (a bit sluggish, horrendous battery usage and no BT didn't let me really enjoy it), but it just felt too rigid compared to the flexibility I'm used to with WinMo.
I do have to give props to the people behind porting this to work on my Tilt 2. I'm sure it wasn't easy. Thanks to all you developers who share your talents here and on PPCGeeks. Gonna play with it a little more, but I'm no longer feeling any Droid envy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what ive been saying... its a great gimmick, but im just a windows fan at heart. I mean, games are great on it. Its like, if im picking someone up and im waiting for them, just boot up droid. Its like a mini arcade. I like that about it. the fact i can switch over from business to play. But for everyday use, winmo is just soooo much better for me. great interface. sense is a hog, but whatever. I flash my phone daily so I dont notice anything. i get a fraction of the errors with winmo i do with android.
Dont get me wrong, these ports are BADD-EFFIN-ASS!!! I mean just look at them, you can see the amount of time and energy they put into them. And ill continue to use it as an arcade... but a daily driver??? nnaaahhh
winmo=way2go
I too was a long timer with Winmo (since 2003) before they were integrated with phones...blablabla cough cough old school.
I discovered Android through my touchPro2 and was quite impressed how close I could get to Winmo's capabilities. The early versions of the kernel definitely needed to mature for a few years but in my opinion is now up to scratch...
I acquired the desire HD and have just been blown away by the extent of its capabilities like I was with Winmo in the old days.
Integration of apps within the OS actually make it grow stronger rather than stalls it if you guys see where I'm coming from.
What killed Winmo for me was its lack of good memory and screen resolution management.
All I'm eager to see is a good Office suite replacement and maybe TomTom but doesn't mean I can't edit word docx and navigate...(not at the same time of course).
Lastly, let's be real, Microsoft has pulled the plug on Winmo and Devs have moved on... It's almost as if I was still trying to get divx running on my poor Amiga (which I loved so much but had to let go).
That was my humble opinion, hope it will be understood accordingly. (now where is that Amiga emulator, lol)
Dodsin.
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA App