Develop Bugs

Things to smile about with the Touch HD.

I'm starting this thread out of enthusiasm for my new Touch HD. I recently "lost" my Athena when my wife neglected to grab it with my laptop while exiting a taxi. I had my baby daughter in my hands and didn't realise that she wasn't aware of my phone as well as my laptop. So... Out with the old and in with the new.
First off, the Touch HD is beautiful. A lot of people are posting videos of the Touch HD and the iPhone, side by side. Of course, we get most of these videos through youtube, and of course the iPhone always looks brighter.
Let's get something out of the way, the iPhone has a capacitive screen. That means there's no metalic film between the lcd screen and your eyes (edit)(Touch HD has a resistive screen, there's a metalic layer there... .
So, brighter it is. What you won't notice with youtube (on account of crap resolution) is just how clear everything is on the Touch HD in comparison to the iPhone.
I've owned two iPhones in the past, and I'm happy to say goodbye to freezing apps, or altogether phone freezes. (edit) before people argue with me, yes the Touch HD freezes from time to time, but usually when I'm pressing it too hard with apps or a new rom. If I use it like normal it won't freeze... Not something I can say about my iphones...)
Something else to smile about is, although the user interface of winmo phones isn't as user friendly as say an iPhone, it is however a lot more open to customization. Let's face it, who wants to have to open a stupid proprietary application like iTunes (god I'm sick of the small i now...) just to transfer some music or videos?
How about the fact that itunes (see, I'm not doing it anymore) renames videos, creating problems like not knowing which episode of a season you're watching? I don't care how much Steve Jobbs loves himself or his visions of a software utopia, to me, control and variation is everything when it comes to something I OWN.
We use computers enough to begin to take for granted, copy, paste, click, and drag. Own an iphone (still not capitalizing the second letter ) for a while and you'll soon come to miss something so easily taken for granted otherwise. I love just dragging the music, videos, and files directly from a directory on my computer to my phone. It's just so damn good...
I should thank Steve Jobbs for creating a device that would remind me how much better windows devices are than the iphone. "Thanks Steve, your phone sucks, but the lesson learned will stay with me for life."
Now, another thing I truly love about my Touch HD (and winmo phones in general) is having access to my file system on the phone itself. Let's face it, it rocks simply put.
I like being able to watch videos in my mobile browser (with a third party browser like opera of course) and not be limited to the youtube app like we see on the iphone (iHabit broken?) This just adds to the constant smiles on my face on account of the small surprises provided to use the winmo community.
I am probably forgetting a lot of things (actually, my hand is broken so I'm being lazy and knowingly neglecting to list more), but I can't forget what just may be the biggest combination that puts a smile on my face with this phone.
Flashing custom roms, and the excellent community here at xda. If I had only my winmo phone and the official rom, it'd be a pretty cool phone on account of it's inherent features (read above), but the mere fact that there's just so much support, and an ongoing river of new software, roms, and support here at xda, just makes this phone a constant surprise.
You can unlock, and jailbreak the iphone, you can skin it, theme it, and add software, but nothing and nowhere even close to that which is possible on a winmo phone, and it's thanks entirely to the individuals programming software, porting things, and cooking excellent roms.
Because of this and so many other facts, I will continue to choose winmo devices, and more importantly, keep a smile on my face while modding, flashing, cabbing, and downright enjoying the one I have now.
Caid.
Sorry, last edit. Just a note to all new users of the Touch HD. Use the wiki, I know the forum says that, but hear it from a user. The wiki for this phone is absolutely beautiful and really is a step by step on doing EVERYTHING you will want to do. It's not confusing, it's not difficult to follow, it's software community perfection in one spot.
So... USE THE WIKI.

Agreed!
It is funny, because people keep saying that they get turned off a phone because it is WinMo - I am the opposite, I get turned off because it /isn't/ WinMo! Honestly, I think we can all put up with some occasional glitches for a system the is /completely/ customisable.
Having said that...I am not an iPhone hater. I think the iPhone is great for people who are used to have non-smart-phones (dumb phones?) or PDAs, who don't have time/not willing to learn how to use one and are not particularly tech-savvy. iPhones are designed to just work out of the box - if you're not prepared to fiddle around with your phone to get the best out of it, go iPhone.
But if you're willing to play around, to take a few risks and to just have some fun with your phone...WinMo is the way to go (or Android, I guess).
Also, I can honestly say that xda forums are the only app store I need
Thanks for all the roms/apps/fixes guys!

nicely said
I don't hate the iphone myself, I've just used it long enough not to like it very much either. I got sucked into the iphone craze, how fluid the OS is, and how smooth it is. But then I used a nice winmo phone and realised all the wonderful things I can do with it. I have control. Another important thing about winmo phones is the fact that it has a great learning curve. If someone isn't tech savvy and just wants a phone, they got it. But for someone like me, I like something that takes a LONG time to really figure out. Getting into custom roms, rom kitchens, tweaking apps, registry editors, home made software, is just not an iphone option.
Caid.

not to mention that it's easier to develop useful software for winmo devices
i tried using the I am rich crap instead of ArcPad... guess who did the job

I also forgot to include the fact that with all these apps, roms, themes, tweaks...it's like having a something new to play with all the time!
Pretty much means that I shouldn't get bored of my phone any time soon =D

iphone always looked like a toy phone with it functions to me. Come on - no navigation, limited phone functions, limited software, no mms, crappy 3g. It is like an overgrown music/video player with not so great resolution and aside some phone functions. blah

mmm
I love my Touch HD Cause :
Screen the REs is HUGE and very clear .. butter then the Iphone
MMs and vid's.. look soo sexy .. widescreen etc.. better then teh Iphone
the touch is not as good as the iphone.. multi aspcet etc. but it's better then my original touch ....
I love the Winmo.. as much as I hate Microsoft, cause it's links with everything.. it's so good I use it as 8GB pen drive.. I always have it on me .. and can take it every where .. !!

hmm..
You know, let's be honest about the iphone, it's not better or worse than winmo phones, it's just different. For a lot of people who want a movie/music player, it's a great phone. It's just not ideal for people who want to dissect and customize. As I stated earlier, being able to load custom roms on my phone is what really floats my boat.
Again, my phone isn't better than an iphone on a grand scale, it's just better than an iphone for me. And when I buy a phone, that's what matters.
Caid.

TP2 - WiMo 7? Multi-touch??

Engadget posted a link to a video tour of Windows 6.5. (The video was moved to here).
In the video (about 6 and a half minutes in), they basically say that WiMo 7 is WiMo 6.5 with multi-touch support. The reason we dont have multi-touch now is that all screens are different due to the loose hardware standards resulting in each device needing its own coding. Later with WiMo7, they intend to tighten up the standards to simplify the coding in the OS.
Is it possible that the TP2's hardware already meets those standards? In the AT&T spec leak of the Fortress and Warhawk (and yes, I know none of this can be taken as fact and the dates are obviously WAY off, but why disregard all of it?), they say the Touch Diamond 2 would require a hardware upgrade, but the Touch Pro 2 is upgradable to WiMo7.
Could it be??

yes, just test the guitar-hero game that somebody made.

Very informative...but I am pretty sure that Windows Mobile 7 isn't going to be Windows Mobile 6.5 with multitouch...
If it's not going to have large menus and large buttons like Android, iPhone, Symbian, or Pre, than it's for sure not Windows Mobile 7. And if they **** this up I might switch to android or pre.

poetryrocksalot said:
And if they **** this up I might switch to android or pre.
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Click to collapse
I agree. this may be the last WinMo handset I buy. unless they can pick it up and make it more finger friendly and eye-appealing.
I mean cmon, Microsoft can see that HTC and Samsung are making UI's that practically erase any evidence of WinMo, and they don't take the hint. once I get the TP2 I'm switching over to Android until Microsoft catches on.

Maybe they figure it's better to make a crappy UI that everyone knows how to program for, then let each maker do their own overlay for it.
Let's face it, HTC are obviously much better than MS at making mobile device UIs...

poppinpengawen said:
I agree. this may be the last WinMo handset I buy. unless they can pick it up and make it more finger friendly and eye-appealing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This may be the last winmo handset I buy because I fear they'll soon leave behind some of their strengths chasing the capacitative/consumery bandwagon. Fortunately, I expect the TP2 to last a while.

It is a perfect OS, but the reason they can't make the buttons any bigger is because Windows Mobile is also designed for phones with small screens that are less than 2.8 inches. Because of this if they increase the standard in size, well than Windows Mobile (Big Buttons Version) would not be a logical operating system for phones with small screens.
But seriously, Microsoft needs to reassess and make a minimum 3 inch screen limit so they can create a finger friendly standard. And the stylus is still a very welcome accessory with the bigger menus and options.
If Microsoft were smart or had hired smarter people than we would have not have these stupid constraints.

Does anyone know what the required hardware specs are for a pocketpc to support WM7? And does the TP2 satisfy these specs?

sakshaug007 said:
Does anyone know what the required hardware specs are for a pocketpc to support WM7? And does the TP2 satisfy these specs?
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Click to collapse
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=4332
here are 2 interesting ones
1. Multi touch (which basically denotes a capacitive screen)
2. Compass capability

poppinpengawen said:
http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=4332
here are 2 interesting ones
1. Multi touch (which basically denotes a capacitive screen)
2. Compass capability
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Styli are helpful for many Asian languages (winmo is courting Chinese markets as we speak), and capacitative styli are humongous. Perhaps the capacitative preference for winmo7 explains why winmo6.5 will coexist with it--so resistive screens can hang around and help capture Asian markets.
However, your link prefaces the list with "WM7 Chassis 1 Spec" (note the 3.5" minimum screen size), something that indicates there could be a "Chassis 2" etc.

poppinpengawen said:
here are 2 interesting ones
1. Multi touch (which basically denotes a capacitive screen)
2. Compass capability
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know resistive touchscreens can support multi-touch and I hope WM7 does not require a capacitive touchscreen. Resistive is so much more functional (stylus handwriting recognition, less battery consumption, cheaper, etc.) And it saddens me that they are getting phased out due to all the iphone lovers out there.

sakshaug007 said:
As far as I know resistive touchscreens can support multi-touch and I hope WM7 does not require a capacitive touchscreen. Resistive is so much more functional (stylus handwriting recognition, less battery consumption, cheaper, etc.) And it saddens me that they are getting phased out due to all the iphone lovers out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
link indicating the screen technology used in the Touch pro 2 can do multitouch?

crazy talk said:
link indicating the screen technology used in the Touch pro 2 can do multitouch?
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Click to collapse
stantums-mind-blowing-multitouch-interface-on-video/
As far as products actually on the market, multitouch does mean capacitative. But for the future, it doesn't have to stay that way.

fortunz said:
Styli are helpful for many Asian languages (winmo is courting Chinese markets as we speak), and capacitative styli are humongous. Perhaps the capacitative preference for winmo7 explains why winmo6.5 will coexist with it--so resistive screens can hang around and help capture Asian markets.
However, your link prefaces the list with "WM7 Chassis 1 Spec" (note the 3.5" minimum screen size), something that indicates there could be a "Chassis 2" etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh yea, I completely agree with you. I don't see why it isn't possible to just fuse the features of a resistive screen and a capacitive screen together. there's a video (can't remember where I found it...it was somewhere on xda-developers) that shows a resistive screen with multi-touch capability. so that alone shows that it IS possible to have a multi-touch resistive screen. (now that I think about it, it sorta makes sense why the document says "multi-touch" and not simply "capacitive" )
and I have no doubt that there will be a chassis 2. from what I hear, the chassis 1 is being considered Microsoft's "Pink" smartphone. so there's no doubt that the upcoming devices running WM7 will have bigger screens and more hardware, etc.

That video is in linked in the post above yours.
The techs are different, and there will likely always be some tradeoffs. There will never be a complete melding of the two, but some of the biggest concerns can be addressed.

fortunz said:
stantums-mind-blowing-multitouch-interface-on-video/
As far as products actually on the market, multitouch does mean capacitative. But for the future, it doesn't have to stay that way.
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Click to collapse
i knew about that.
what i was trying to say was proof the exact screen in the Tp2 can support multi touch. because that was what the person i was replying to was implying.

crazy talk said:
i knew about that.
what i was trying to say was proof the exact screen in the Tp2 can support multi touch. because that was what the person i was replying to was implying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sakshaug007 said:
As far as I know resistive touchscreens can support multi-touch and I hope WM7 does not require a capacitive touchscreen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He said resistive touchscreen can support multitouch. They can. I guess we all agree with each other. Big hugs, all around.

But we don't have the answer yet
Does the Touch Pro 2 have a resistive screen that can handle multitouch or not ...
The video using resistive screen for multitouch uses special hardware chips to handle that.
TP2 does not, AFAIK.

Here's a detailed breakdown on what exactly was learned from the video that Hamburg's referring to.
Seems to me that, technically, WM7 won't be available for the TP2, but we all know there'll be some builds cooked up here that'll work at some point in the future

Technically capable or not I don't think there will be an official upgrade available. In an interview with someone with HTC they said that the upgrade to 6.5 was being done because Microsoft had said they would provide the rights for the free upgrade. I doubt Microsoft would provide two free upgrade rights for the same phone,, and I doubt HTC would shell out the cash necessary to provide a second update either. So in the end, it'd require a cooked ROM. Good thing though is the fact that in one of the many articles around it said the processor would need to be ARMv6, which the Pro2's is.

I'm for the WM7

And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical. people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
For Example:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?

jacobgong said:
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
jacobgong said:
people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
jacobgong said:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
jacobgong said:
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
jacobgong said:
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
jacobgong said:
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
jacobgong said:
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.

both of yalls post were to long to read cuz its late, but im for wp7 also

wm7 is going to kill this community i think

jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard of Max Manilla, Max Sense or TouchXprience?? if not I would be more than glad to direct you to their forums!!

I am looking forward to WP7
WP7 certainly looks like a lovely interface and i am quite excited about it. I have enjoyed my WM6.x phone over the last few years - but I will be happy to step into the more consumer focused model that Microsoft has put forward.

Fa7my said:
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard glad to direct you to their forums!!
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Click to collapse
yes, I have.
they may look fancy but they obviously lack a lot of polishing.

Spike15 said:
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post kills, but much of it is true

It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really, I never thought about governments and evil corporations or anything like that. It's your freedom if you think arguing about such things make you more free and intelligent.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know what Multitasking means, I run a quad-core 8-thread Intel Xeon desktop. I never said it's entirely not used, it's just really not that useful because even the example you gave me is a very rare case, which shows how often you really use it, not very.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what made WM6.5 fail, thinking a phone OS is the same as a Desktop OS. it's not. the Phone is an appliance, not a general purpose electronic computer.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that "except" will be impossible, but I don't need it to be possible because the WM7 UI is a lot better than anything we've ever had. if nobody was able to make anything close to it, I don't expect anything better to be made any time soon.
and you are free to show me which of you freedom tweakers have made anything better than the HTC Sence/iPhone OS/HTC Android triple screen UI.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do I really care? the fact is the iPhone Safari browser browses the web better than a freakin netbook, it's a lot more fluid with multi-touch zoom and all that. Unlike Opera 10 on WM lags all the time and shows blanks when you zoom and pan.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you didn't know, writing programs before the existence of operating systems was a pain in the ass, cause you can't use languages like C
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the FaceBook app is there, because it makes it easier to access Facebook. If I try to access it with the web browser not only is it slow, laggy, power intensive. it's not optimized for finger use.
It's people like you who made the WM6.5 stylus and big battery a necessity.
as for the file syncing thing, yea I hate to have a syncing software like iTunes or whatever, I will hope it still works like thumbdrive drag and drop.
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.

jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization doesn't just have to do with looking good.
As you say...
There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization allows the user to make this trade off, and choose for example a more functional user interface that impressionable consumers would find less attractive.

jacobgong you are obviously an iPhone fan, ie. you belong to the market share (iphone users) to which microsoft is focusing on with WP7.
Welcome to the microsoft world! So glad they managed to grab you! This means their strategy is actually working!
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
This is actually a merge of worlds. MS is going to give us developers an opportunity to create apps for ex-iphone users like my friend jacobgong, if they manage to grab that share... And as I can see, they are already doing great!
This is good news.

jacobgong said:
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL
This said after "And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical."
LOL!!!
You made my day, man. As a nerd who lives for customization and for what we "can" do rather than what the unwashed masses "do" do (hurhur, doodoo), I died a little bit inside. XD Let my phone look like it's from the '70s! More nerd points! It can do a heck of a lot more than yours (okay, I have no idea what you use), and that's all that matters to me. Cool, eh? At least it's more "practical" than your line of reasoning!

Spike15, well said. Making masses into vegetables. As i see it, Queen gave masses high school education, enough earnings to have a holiday in Spain, buy few pints on the weekend and go to a football match, beyond that nobody as of vegetable masses likes Mr. jacobgong dont know where is Russia to say the least

jacobgong said:
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and your dream will be to get Adobe Flash support on the iPhone, which will never happen. And a browser without flash is just 50%. So you are forced to use a crappy app for youtube etc. And for you to know: your such beloved Safari browser is insecure as hell. Just google "Safari vulnerabilities" and you will see. So go away and shove that ugly thing up your arse.

hi all members i very like it on this forums
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.

Is it me or does Windows 7 look cr*p?

Basically ive been watching videos and previews and all that stuff and I thought this looks boring its just an iphone rip off, I liked windows mobile 6.5.x and stuff because of the high customization and Sense/Manila, Windows phone 7 is so clinical and boring and whats with hat programs menu that doesn't look good its boring list WOW to be honest id rather have my TyTN II back maybe the games will be good... SO! you'll have to have a good job too afford them.. im sorry Microsoft had a very different and exclusive mobile OS to be honest I think theyve ruined it.... Rant over and Android here I come.

Thanks for your opinion, further changes will take this into consideration

Lmao
Send from Your Mothers Basement

Are you done?
For the record, the Metro GUI has NOTHING similar to the iOS GUI except maybe the software keyboard.
The entire user experience is fundamentally different from anything out there. The panoramic experience is brand new and fresh... there are no analog effects at play. The GUI is 100% digital in inspiration and implementation... no faux glass effects or stupid animations unless app developers decide to implement them.
If you can look at a video of it running and not see a difference from say Android or iOS, you're delusional and are probably better off with a piece of homogenized Apple garbage.
God, I hate people like you that talk without thinking.

actually I see what he's saying. I believe the UI cannot be customized much like how iPhone can't really be customized, and even with the apps that you can make for windows phone 7 you have to use the same kind of UI unless you are developing a game (as far as we've seen) I think the problem stems from the fact that Microsoft has mad a lot of radical changes that make it more like a iPhone clone than an upgrade to the windows mobile that we all know and love. Windows mobile originally looked to be on par with the way Android worked. Now it looks like they are going after iPhone but an iPhone of 3 years ago than the iPhone now.

Iridox said:
Are you done?
For the record, the Metro GUI has NOTHING similar to the iOS GUI except maybe the software keyboard.
The entire user experience is fundamentally different from anything out there. The panoramic experience is brand new and fresh... there are no analog effects at play. The GUI is 100% digital in inspiration and implementation... no faux glass effects or stupid animations unless app developers decide to implement them.
If you can look at a video of it running and not see a difference from say Android or iOS, you're delusional and are probably better off with a piece of homogenized Apple garbage.
God, I hate people like you that talk without thinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok shut up, I meant its turning into the iPhone ui I.E. black background with random icons I meant to say the homepage no need to cry about it. From my mothers Basement??? Hmm I hate my mum and am not living with her + I am 16 you cant expect more from me I left school 11 weeks ago and am attending a 9-5 course I have also just passed a lifeguard course... Oh and I don't have a basement so... ummm, fail, you idiot, I also said "is it me" A question so you should have told me I was wrong not? Plus it was my opinion I wanted other opinions not a load of Sh*t from idiots. Oh and I said "like" I can see a difference otherwise I wouldnt be saying time to go to Android or I prefer WM 6.5.. well done hard man...
God, I hate Fan boy idiots like you who talk a load of ****.
Hmm why not try saying no it is not like the iPhone os and explain it no need to have a go at people for having different opinions and/or being wrong and as you say some of it is different to the iPhone ios crap but it is becoming very similar in certain ways. If I get banned for what I just said then oh well, wouldnt of said it if I didnt receive rude responses.
xcom923 thank you for being polite. Thats exactly what I meant by turning into iOS its just not really customizable ok people will jailbreak it but a background wont really look good, you cant see it theres boxes in the way. Thanks xcom =)

I just typed out a whole response to this, but decided not to post it.
Meh, some people can't be helped.

Iridox said:
I just typed out a whole response to this, but decided not to post it.
Meh, some people can't be helped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You never tried to help me you just got angry and raged and then said some people cant be helped... YOU NEVER TRIED TO "HELP"

That's a mighty chip on your visually challenged shoulder...

dudes45 said:
You never tried to help me you just got angry and raged and then said some people cant be helped... YOU NEVER TRIED TO "HELP"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Calm down, or leave. Soon enough the mods will see this and sort it out if it carries on.
There is no need for that sort of attitude at all.
Im not having a go, just chill out
Iridox, he was just voicing his opinion, I sort of think your reply was a bit on the hard side.
I agree with what your saying, fundamentally. I can not stand the look of WP7. I wouldn't say it looks like Ios, but I agree its going in that direction, i.e. closed.
I, forone will not be buying a phone running it.
Can we PLEASE not turn this into a flaming thread.
There is enough of them.

Wp7 basically looks great.

Seriously, does anyone think Window Phone 7 looks good? It looks crap

While under the hood WM7 might be really cool and flashy (or flashless imho) I'm no fan of the light blue squares on the home screen, yes they are functional but I think for all the bling behind the scenes they could have been a little more on the creative side, heck even circles would have been a step above the blue square.
Disclaimer
This is just my humble opinion and no animals, phones, young people, llamas, or anthing organic in nature was harmed or otherwise flamed during it's writing. ;-)

lonelykatana said:
Calm down, or leave. Soon enough the mods will see this and sort it out if it carries on.
There is no need for that sort of attitude at all.
Im not having a go, just chill out
Iridox, he was just voicing his opinion, I sort of think your reply was a bit on the hard side.
I agree with what your saying, fundamentally. I can not stand the look of WP7. I wouldn't say it looks like Ios, but I agree its going in that direction, i.e. closed.
I, forone will not be buying a phone running it.
Can we PLEASE not turn this into a flaming thread.
There is enough of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He said he hates people like me... No need to say that and he essentially called me stupid.. so I just got annoyed it was a bit rude...I dont join forums to be intentionally rude or abusive I just join for help and friendly useful answers. It annoys me when I get an answer like that I asked about it I did not say it was anything just said it "seems like", he could have corrected me instead of saying he hates people like me, lol I know this sounds like a retarded excuse but im not happy at the mo just split up with my gf and stuff so acting a bit funny at the mo... If I had relied more like hatemywing, Azure, Doministry I wouldnt have been rude. So yeah, back to the thred no more flaming ++ sorry Iridox..

Not my words, but a good point:
"Why doesn't WP7 have a beautiful enertia/page scrolling like the iPhone. Why does clicking or touching on a 'tile' makes the other tiles slowly fades away one by one instead of having a different navigation metaphor...this is such a bad navigation design and is even bad for the eyes over time... MS should take care of the core fundamentals.... a very fast, snappy and responsive UI with efficient scrolling. In all the demos, the tile or icon doesn't respond to touch in a consistent manner and have to be touch 'multiple' times before it works... If you can't demostrate the you perform the core well, why should anyone care? You can call anyone an MS Hater all you want, but at the end of the day, the writer has a point and those flaws are very obvious, and all you know that.
At the end of the day, what makes Apple iPhone a hit has to do more with a pleasing and beautiful UI (icons, ects)... than xbox, sharepoint,.. those square Hubs are so ugly... and MS idea about theming is giving the hubs different colors?"
Source

vetvito said:
Not my words, but a good point:
"Why doesn't WP7 have a beautiful enertia/page scrolling like the iPhone. Why does clicking or touching on a 'tile' makes the other tiles slowly fades away one by one instead of having a different navigation metaphor...this is such a bad navigation design and is even bad for the eyes over time... MS should take care of the core fundamentals.... a very fast, snappy and responsive UI with efficient scrolling. In all the demos, the tile or icon doesn't respond to touch in a consistent manner and have to be touch 'multiple' times before it works... If you can't demostrate the you perform the core well, why should anyone care? You can call anyone an MS Hater all you want, but at the end of the day, the writer has a point and those flaws are very obvious, and all you know that.
At the end of the day, what makes Apple iPhone a hit has to do more with a pleasing and beautiful UI (icons, ects)... than xbox, sharepoint,.. those square Hubs are so ugly... and MS idea about theming is giving the hubs different colors?"
Source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could be wrong, but it should have enertial scrolling. One thing I like about the scrolling is the 'rubber banding'. If you scroll too far the text area compressed and then snaps back when you release. At least my zuneHD does and from every account people are suprised by how snappy the UI is.
With the UI as a whole it seems to be hit or miss. Those open to change seem to love it but those who want more of the same seem repulsed.
For me, I'm looking for something different and I like it. If you want icons on a grid then go for Android or iOS, simple as that.

So you prefer tiles on a grid?

vetvito said:
So you prefer tiles on a grid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, that was a quick reply. The tiles aren't static. They are a cross between widgets and icons.
The UI tries something different and I at least find it refreshing.

vetvito said:
Not my words, but a good point:
"Why doesn't WP7 have a beautiful enertia/page scrolling like the iPhone. Why does clicking or touching on a 'tile' makes the other tiles slowly fades away one by one instead of having a different navigation metaphor...this is such a bad navigation design and is even bad for the eyes over time... MS should take care of the core fundamentals.... a very fast, snappy and responsive UI with efficient scrolling. In all the demos, the tile or icon doesn't respond to touch in a consistent manner and have to be touch 'multiple' times before it works... If you can't demostrate the you perform the core well, why should anyone care? You can call anyone an MS Hater all you want, but at the end of the day, the writer has a point and those flaws are very obvious, and all you know that.
At the end of the day, what makes Apple iPhone a hit has to do more with a pleasing and beautiful UI (icons, ects)... than xbox, sharepoint,.. those square Hubs are so ugly... and MS idea about theming is giving the hubs different colors?"
Source
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im not sure what videos that person was watching, but of all the video's i've seen (ENGADGET REVIEW VIDEO INCLUDED) every reviewer has said how snappy and fast it was. The videos made that apparent as well.
So my opinion greatly differs in that aspect.
Until i have a phone in my hand i wont know for sure how much i really like or dislike it.
One thing i've noticed that is a flaw in my opinion is the ability to quick switch between "Hubs" or apps. You have to go all the way to the home screen and THEN open an app. You are unable to somehow quickly switch.
I assume a lot of these issues will be fixed within the first 6 months after release.

No it's not just you.

few annoying things in WP7.5

1. autohide battery, wifi and signal - any chance to turn it off?
2. battery percentage on statusbar (I'm not interested in Battery Status)
3. threading all emails with no subcject (gmail), even from different people (please don't tell me to turn off conversations)
My device is htc mozart, full unlocked. WP7 is best os I ever had but these few things are really bad.

deleted

1. It will show you the signal status whenever you lost it, so if you cant see, means you have signal. Wifi just shows when you are connecting or connection is lost. Battery same. It will pop up when you need to worry about.
2. Dont know why, but you cant have battery percentage.
3. Never had this problem. I use conversation mode and it doesnt thread when not from the same people.
No OS is perfect. A lot more is coming with WP8, so hope those little details get revamped.
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/5-years-of-iphone-innovation.jpg

mikeeam said:
No OS is perfect. A lot more is coming with WP8, so hope those little details get revamped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, but perfection is a perception for that individual.

krzychoo89 said:
1. autohide battery, wifi and signal - any chance to turn it off?
2. battery percentage on statusbar (I'm not interested in Battery Status)
3. threading all emails with no subcject (gmail), even from different people (please don't tell me to turn off conversations)
My device is htc mozart, full unlocked. WP7 is best os I ever had but these few things are really bad.
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Click to collapse
1. No. Metro is all about cleaner and minimal looks. No clunky interface that eats away your screen. Tap and it drops down for you, hides again.
2. No. Unless you want to go to battery saver for an estimate.
3. Threading works by subjects, not by person at the moment like in Outlook. In Outlook you can thread by sender or subject. Currently it threads by subject. If I send out an email, I make sure my subjects are unique for each type of convo.
Over all, these are generic features. Suits some tastes, bothers some, doesn't even get noticed by most.

But for an os that wants us to get as much information as possible as efficiently as possible I think it is going overboard to not show signal bars and battery. But an arrow pointing to the right is important?
Maybe it is an opportunity for someone to do a live tile for this.

1. ok, I didn't know that icon will show up when I lost signal, great, one problem solved.
2. detail, maybe it's not so important, but it would be nice to see pecentage
3. Oh, come on! It's fcked up! When sb send me email with no subject (very often) all emails are in same thread.

I think the problem is people who send you an email without subject. LOL
Unbelievable lazy people.

The guy is right you cant group emails my subject.
Sent from my HTC_Amaze_4G using XDA

Wtf is wrong with you people?! These are just some minor things somewhat youre making a big deal out of.
From the lockscreen you will see your signal bar and battery life, when youre in the os, then just tap at top. Sure it's an extra step but it does hides away the ugliness.
If your phone is fully unlocked then why not get the battery status app floating around here in xda?!
Turn off conversations. Sheez, if your "friends" are too lazy to put on a subject then just turn off conversations, that way you'll get the newest email right on top!
The right arrow is there to point out that you can scroll to the left or tap on the arrow to reveal another column and see all your apps.
Jesus! Grab some common sense people, oh wait unfortunately it isn't so "common".

downloaderintruder said:
Wtf is wrong with you people?! These are just some minor things somewhat youre making a big deal out of.
From the lockscreen you will see your signal bar and battery life, when youre in the os, then just tap at top. Sure it's an extra step but it does hides away the ugliness.
If your phone is fully unlocked then why not get the battery status app floating around here in xda?!
Turn off conversations. Sheez, if your "friends" are too lazy to put on a subject then just turn off conversations, that way you'll get the newest email right on top!
The right arrow is there to point out that you can scroll to the left or tap on the arrow to reveal another column and see all your apps.
Jesus! Grab some common sense people, oh wait unfortunately it isn't so "common".
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Click to collapse
That has to be one of the best 'tellings off' I've seen in a while.

Personally I love the status bar auto-hide. I like the fact that they give you as much of the screen as they can for viewing your page/app ect. Shows you status when it needs to (change in connection ect), then gets out of your way instead of taking up space constantly. Ever need to check it? Just a quick swipe down from top or tap.
As far as the battery percentage & conversation view changes: Perhaps these will be options in Apollo later this year. I know the battery percentage is one many would like.

@up:
1. but I dont want to. I just want to see it without any additional steps.
2. I have battery status, but I have to unlock, and waste 1 space on screen, or slide and turn on BS from menu, waste of time - i just want battery percentage near the clock
3. I have to turn off. But on iOS or android I don;t had such problems.
I think that you are too fustrated, calm down man, I'm not blind. I see bad things in WP7 and I'm trying to fix it.

krzychoo89 said:
@up:
1. but I dont want to. I just want to see it without any additional steps.
2. I have battery status, but I have to unlock, and waste 1 space on screen, or slide and turn on BS from menu, waste of time - i just want battery percentage near the clock
3. I have to turn off. But on iOS or android I don;t had such problems.
I think that you are too fustrated, calm down man, I'm not blind. I see bad things in WP7 and I'm trying to fix it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For someone who feels 'a tap' is additional steps - Android is the answer.
I think genuine annoyance is: Threading other two are just personal choices. Did you not try the phone before you bought it? If you are still under the cooling off period, best thing is to swap it for a similar specs Android and use Launcher7 if you like the idea of tiles.

Ok, so if I knew it's not possible I have to just shut up and tell everybody how great is WP7?
WTF? I though that these kind of fanboys are only interested in android and ios. I was wrong.
I like wp7 more than other OS, but it's not perfect.
Few years ago XDA was forum with prosfessionals who though how to fix things we don't like in devices. Now I see thats group of blind fanboys. Such a waste...

krzychoo89 said:
Ok, so if I knew it's not possible I have to just shut up and tell everybody how great is WP7?
WTF? I though that these kind of fanboys are only interested in android and ios. I was wrong.
I like wp7 more than other OS, but it's not perfect.
Few years ago XDA was forum with prosfessionals who though how to fix things we don't like in devices. Now I see thats group of blind fanboys. Such a waste...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one is asking you to shut up and tell how great WP7 is.
Only if you used the search button on the top right, you would have already come across much more informative threads that have already mentioned how WP is different than other OS.
Not few years ago but since the birth of XDA the tag line has been "Search first, then ask" - so if you have been following XDA for a few years and seeing how professionals have fixed things, you would know how to use the search too. The reason one needs to shut up will only be because reiterating what is not available and saying how it's annoying proves nothing but trolling.
You said you want battery percentage -Now the "professionals" made the app, the live tile and a workaround to do that. But ofcourse, you are not interested as you say in your first post. This IS NOT android. The system is secure and limited to any sort of development. So you WONT get the percentage next to your clock. You would have known this just by a simple search on XDA.
The "tap to view" - is NOT an annoying bug. This is EXACTLY how Microsoft wanted this FEATURE to be. This is what suits the Metro UI's concept. You are saying 'but I don't want to tap'. Fine, we understand, everyone does. But this is a feature. If you want to tweak it, it can be done. Probably someone will help you tweak the registry to stop the autohide.
I agree, as I said before the threaded one is a bug. It should thread irrespectively especially when you say you've seen iOS and Android thread it correctly even without the subjects.
All that said, once again, if you use the search button you will find at least 5 threads in this very forum which talks about the 'limitations' and how the OS isn't perfect. Also, you say "few years ago professional fixed the things WE DONT like in the devices" - but here probably isn't it the case of "I don't want to tap to see the batter, I don't want to use 'professionally' developed Battery Status"?
Yes, such a waste.

morpheus1982 said:
Agreed, but perfection is a perception for that individual.
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Click to collapse
This is so true..... No phone is perfect for everyone. As long as it works good for your needs, and you can live with the little things, it's fine...
1. Not a big deal to me, I like it hidden, because I dont always care to know what is connected and what's not. It notifies me when I get disconnected and it's always a touch away.
2. Battery status, This has always bothered me on every phone I had, WM 6.5was the only one I liked due to a 3rd party hack. I like it on the status bar but, wish it would show a true % vs a 5 step iccon.
3. It's very rare that I get an email with no subject, teach your friends on how to do email correctly (or put their small message in the subject instead of the body). That is not a product design, that is a friend/worker problem.
No Phone is perfect for everyone....and WP7 is no acception....

krzychoo89 said:
Ok, so if I knew it's not possible I have to just shut up and tell everybody how great is WP7?
WTF? I though that these kind of fanboys are only interested in android and ios. I was wrong.
I like wp7 more than other OS, but it's not perfect.
Few years ago XDA was forum with prosfessionals who though how to fix things we don't like in devices. Now I see thats group of blind fanboys. Such a waste...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically yes. WP7 fans usually praise the OS no matter what limitations it has. It's very hard to discuss those things here. Instead of agreement that it is unfinished people will tell you that it's your fault. But it happens everywhere and occassionally drives me nuts.
WP7 is perfect for people who don't do much with the phone.
If you're inclined into real control of the device and customization possibilities, Android is the way. WP7 is dumb in many ways and will stay like that for some time.

doministry said:
Basically yes. WP7 fans usually praise the OS no matter what limitations it has. It's very hard to discuss those things here. Instead of agreement that it is unfinished people will tell you that it's your fault. But it happens everywhere and occassionally drives me nuts.
WP7 is perfect for people who don't do much with the phone.
If you're inclined into real control of the device and customization possibilities, Android is the way. WP7 is dumb in many ways and will stay like that for some time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, pull your head out, will you.
We don't claim WP7 to be perfect, like iOS users do. We've chosen to accept its flaws and we expect that anyone who's got such petty complaints of the OS to have actually read the criticism of the OS, which are in plenty.
Look at the argument that ensued over BT file sharing. Seriously, the guy is throwing a fit that none of us agree that it is a major issue. It's not a problem with Nokia, but is a shortcoming of the WP7. Come to think of it, does iOS natively support BT filesharing?
Again... I'm a rational fanboy. I've chosen to enjoy WP7 rather than ***** and moan about it. There are things about it that I don't care for, but I've decided to focus on what I DO like instead.
It's like the difference between a good movie with slight plot holes vs. an ok movie. If the story interests me enough, I'm willing to overlook the plot holes so that I can enjoy the film. A different movie, one where there's nothing that makes me care about any of the characters, isn't worth me overlooking its shortcomings in order to appreciate it.
WP7 is my good movie with some holes in the story.

anseio said:
Oh, pull your head out, will you.
We don't claim WP7 to be perfect, like iOS users do. We've chosen to accept its flaws and we expect that anyone who's got such petty complaints of the OS to have actually read the criticism of the OS, which are in plenty.
Look at the argument that ensued over BT file sharing. Seriously, the guy is throwing a fit that none of us agree that it is a major issue. It's not a problem with Nokia, but is a shortcoming of the WP7. Come to think of it, does iOS natively support BT filesharing?
Again... I'm a rational fanboy. I've chosen to enjoy WP7 rather than ***** and moan about it. There are things about it that I don't care for, but I've decided to focus on what I DO like instead.
It's like the difference between a good movie with slight plot holes vs. an ok movie. If the story interests me enough, I'm willing to overlook the plot holes so that I can enjoy the film. A different movie, one where there's nothing that makes me care about any of the characters, isn't worth me overlooking its shortcomings in order to appreciate it.
WP7 is my good movie with some holes in the story.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well looking at your history here, probably you didn't experience this WP7 forum since it's beginning on fall/winter 2010.
There are users who do exactly what I described.