Develop Bugs

Need forum for Nokia Firmware Developer

As all we that know that Nokia source code now 100% open.
can u make a firmware developer forum for nokia where the developers can made changes in nokia firmwares like windows mobiles?
Is it possible that

I can make the forum, I will buy the domain, hosting everything, just suggest me a good domain name and I will take care of the rest

which one u want like xda forum or other?
i think its good and there is not any domain name like this
http://forum.xda-developers.com/nokia

Oh if you want a sub-domain under xda-developers, then there's nothing to buy, the admins will have to look into this.
And although Symbian is opensource now, Nokia firmware development is unlikely to happen, because the Z drive on Nokia devices, which is the ROM, is locked. And I don't think anyone has succeded in unlocking it permanently so far.

The PRO said:
Oh if you want a sub-domain under xda-developers, then there's nothing to buy, the admins will have to look into this.
And although Symbian is opensource now, Nokia firmware development is unlikely to happen, because the Z drive on Nokia devices, which is the ROM, is locked. And I don't think anyone has succeded in unlocking it permanently so far.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now z drive of nokia phone like 5800XM which is very good phone is now unlocked by some developers, please visi this forum to see that :-
if this is happen then please make a sub forum Nokia in XDA for developers to cook its own firmwares of Nokia.
http://www.ipmart-forum.com/showthread.php?t=448745

ssheikhpk said:
Now z drive of nokia phone like 5800XM which is very good phone is now unlocked by some developers, please visi this forum to see that :-
if this is happen then please make a sub forum Nokia in XDA for developers to cook its own firmwares of Nokia.
http://www.ipmart-forum.com/showthread.php?t=448745
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh thats cool then, the last Symbian I used was N95 8GB, it was hard to do then. Well the admins already said XDA-Developers will only be dedicated to HTC devices, so a Nokia sub-forum is unlikely to happen. But if you can get some developers who are interested in this, then I can make a separate website for it, something like nokia-developers.com or symbian-developers.com

HTC only?
If you scroll down the forum homescreen you'll see other WinMo/Android devices outside of HTC. Maybe the question was asked in the wrong way to the admins. I don't think we're looking to really mod Nokia devices. However, as Nokia begins to release more devices with "Intel" chip-sets the development community may see some shift towards working on Nokia hardware/firmware.
What we currently want is to do is explore and develop the new and open source Symbian ^1 ^2 ^3 ^4 and ^5 into ROM's that load onto our beloved HTC devices.
Compatibility and open-ness are driving the new information economy. Symbian has some pretty darn cool stuff like N-Gage gaming, support to play "Digital Copy" movies, etc...
Imagine being able to just transfer your digital copy movie over to your HD2 or TouchPro 2 because your PC thinks your device is a 5800. Right now you'd have to convert the digital copy through some illegal method.
Apple locks down their devices to prevent us from doing this kind of work. We're a community of open, intelligent and capable minds/people. This community should not be so "Apple" like and prevent open development.
I'm also suggesting, just as there was on the Rhodium page for Android, a bounty issued for Symbian ROM development.
A Nokia forum wouldn't make sense. Nokia only owns a majority of the Symbian platform. What we really want is a Symbian forum on XDA. We want this so that we have a single source of information on an important topic where we know that we truly have experts working on the issues and solutions. XDA could experience major growth by doing this and attracting Symbian developers. Symbian is closely related to WinMo as it is so this wouldn't be a daunting task for developers. C++

To be honest, I don´t think this will happen.

totalperception said:
If you scroll down the forum homescreen you'll see other WinMo/Android devices outside of HTC. Maybe the question was asked in the wrong way to the admins. I don't think we're looking to really mod Nokia devices. However, as Nokia begins to release more devices with "Intel" chip-sets the development community may see some shift towards working on Nokia hardware/firmware.
What we currently want is to do is explore and develop the new and open source Symbian ^1 ^2 ^3 ^4 and ^5 into ROM's that load onto our beloved HTC devices.
Compatibility and open-ness are driving the new information economy. Symbian has some pretty darn cool stuff like N-Gage gaming, support to play "Digital Copy" movies, etc...
Imagine being able to just transfer your digital copy movie over to your HD2 or TouchPro 2 because your PC thinks your device is a 5800. Right now you'd have to convert the digital copy through some illegal method.
Apple locks down their devices to prevent us from doing this kind of work. We're a community of open, intelligent and capable minds/people. This community should not be so "Apple" like and prevent open development.
I'm also suggesting, just as there was on the Rhodium page for Android, a bounty issued for Symbian ROM development.
A Nokia forum wouldn't make sense. Nokia only owns a majority of the Symbian platform. What we really want is a Symbian forum on XDA. We want this so that we have a single source of information on an important topic where we know that we truly have experts working on the issues and solutions. XDA could experience major growth by doing this and attracting Symbian developers. Symbian is closely related to WinMo as it is so this wouldn't be a daunting task for developers. C++
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I own the domain symbian-developers.com, I can setup a forum there if you people are interested.

totalperception said:
If you scroll down the forum homescreen you'll see other WinMo/Android devices outside of HTC. Maybe the question was asked in the wrong way to the admins. I don't think we're looking to really mod Nokia devices. However, as Nokia begins to release more devices with "Intel" chip-sets the development community may see some shift towards working on Nokia hardware/firmware.
What we currently want is to do is explore and develop the new and open source Symbian ^1 ^2 ^3 ^4 and ^5 into ROM's that load onto our beloved HTC devices.
Compatibility and open-ness are driving the new information economy. Symbian has some pretty darn cool stuff like N-Gage gaming, support to play "Digital Copy" movies, etc...
Imagine being able to just transfer your digital copy movie over to your HD2 or TouchPro 2 because your PC thinks your device is a 5800. Right now you'd have to convert the digital copy through some illegal method.
Apple locks down their devices to prevent us from doing this kind of work. We're a community of open, intelligent and capable minds/people. This community should not be so "Apple" like and prevent open development.
I'm also suggesting, just as there was on the Rhodium page for Android, a bounty issued for Symbian ROM development.
A Nokia forum wouldn't make sense. Nokia only owns a majority of the Symbian platform. What we really want is a Symbian forum on XDA. We want this so that we have a single source of information on an important topic where we know that we truly have experts working on the issues and solutions. XDA could experience major growth by doing this and attracting Symbian developers. Symbian is closely related to WinMo as it is so this wouldn't be a daunting task for developers. C++
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But i dont think any one would really want a Rhodium page for Symbian,though. I think it would be best if there was a seperate website for Nokia/Symbian developments.

orb3000 said:
To be honest, I don´t think this will happen.
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Click to collapse
Me too I don't think this will happen, maybe follow The Pro suggestion of openning another domain for this...he is willing to do it...

gmaniac2008 said:
Me too I don't think this will happen, maybe follow The Pro suggestion of openning another domain for this...he is willing to do it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm ready whenever you guys are

I agree new domain would be better. I liked Symbian-developers.com
coz there is many symbians accept nokia.
and by the way NGAGE days is over.. they shut down nGage for good.
now there is only OVI like Market in android

ruslanriad said:
I agree new domain would be better. I liked Symbian-developers.com
coz there is many symbians accept nokia.
and by the way NGAGE days is over.. they shut down nGage for good.
now there is only OVI like Market in android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I can begin as soon as I get some symbian developers to agree on start posting on the new site.

The PRO said:
Well I can begin as soon as I get some symbian developers to agree on start posting on the new site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good Luck

Please post on the site what phones should be added and what forums should be there
http://symbian-developers.com/

Such a shame there obviously isn't much interest in the newest Nokia phones.
I really think with the N8 and C7 Nokia took a big step forward and I'd love to see them get the recognition they deserve for it.
Unfortunately they might be a year or two too late.
I think, if there was a Symbian Forum on XDA-Developers, it might be way more successful than an external site. So I very much +1 the TO request.
BTW: Does anyone know if apps for the N8 and C7 are interchangable?
Greetings.
PS: Can a software branding be totally removed from the C7 / N8?

[ATTENTION DEVS] Donations and Open-Source/Freeware Discussion

I just thought I'd start this thread to ask other developers about their opinion on the matter.
I spent many hours across several weeks reverse engineering the Samsung Galaxy S flashing protocol and then programming, testing and distributing Heimdall as open-source software.
Based on bandwidth consumption Heimdall has been downloaded anywhere between 2000 and 8000 times (depending on whether the source or binaries were downloaded). I have received no more than eight donations, a very sincere thank-you goes out to those eight people! Let's assume that 25% of the total number of downloads were repeat downloaders, so we have somewhere between 1500 and 6000 unique users. So only 0.134-0.534% of users actually donate. Those sorts of donation rates are barely able to cover the cost of bandwidth, if at all.
I know there are a lot of people out there who consider themselves avid supporters of open-source and open-source software. I wouldn't necessarily call myself one of those people, however I do believe there is definitely a time and a place for open-source software, Heimdall being a perfect example.
I also know a lot of people who distribute ROMs, apps, tools, mods etc. are hobbyists who do what they do in their spare time, and the community should be very thankful of that. As for myself, I work as a independent software/games developer, not particularly the most monetarily rewarding profession around.
As much as we do enjoy releasing free software for the community, it is difficult for developers such as myself to justify the work involved when there is little to no return, after all the bills need to be paid somehow.
My question is this, is it possible for developers releasing open-source software directly to the community, not large corporations, to make a living off their work? Furthermore, how do we encourage community members to give back to developers who have donated their time to the community?

Can't you use Google Code instead for hosting? or SourceForge? all provide free bandwidth IIRC.
Don't expect any donations as a rule, if you are expecting profit then either use ads on your website or charge.
I would have thought the primary reason for developing OSS on your phone is to improve the product you originally bought.
Cheers,
MiG

If you want free hosting, I can hook you up at http://www.sgscompilebox.dreamhosters.com/ that I'm paying for anyway for z4mod. Unlimited bandwidth/space. Offer goes out to anybody who wants to host anything for the SGS.
EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question: No, I don't believe it's possible to make a living off making 3rd party open source tools that only a fraction(technical users) of a device's users will use. If you want to make a living off open source, the best bet is through a company such as Canonical, or by creating applications focused at casual users with as much potential marketshare as possible. Or do what most people do: get a regular 'closed' job, and do open source stuff as a hobby.

MiG- said:
Can't you use Google Code instead for hosting? or SourceForge? all provide free bandwidth IIRC.
Don't expect any donations as a rule, if you are expecting profit then either use ads on your website or charge.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you fully understand what I'm trying to discuss. The bandwidth costs are fairly negligible, especially if I'm approximately able to cover the costs with just eight donations. A developers time however is substantially more expensive, and in some ways the effort and intention is priceless
I'm not expecting profit as such, nor do I particularly wish this discussion to center around myself (I'm just using my statistics as an example). I'm just curious to know whether people think it is possible to be a "sustainable" open-source developer who contributes software directly to a community? As opposed to large open-source products targeted towards large corporations who pay technical support contracts.
I'm also not a big fan off stuffing ads down the throat of my user-base. Also, in this particular context I seriously doubt that sort of approach would work, especially if third-party free hosting (sourceforge, github etc.) is used.
MiG- said:
I would have thought the primary reason for developing OSS on your phone is to improve the product you originally bought.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not necessarily. In my particular case I've simply released a tool to further enable the community to do something that other users (myself included) could already do, in some capacity or another.
For most developers releasing open-source software isn't so much about improving something they own. It's more about providing something for a community to use and benefit from without constraints. It's not unreasonable to ask the community to support you in return. After all there is nothing that forces developers to ever release the software they develop, unless you've used GPL code which is another matter entirely.
MiG-, based on your answer I'm assuming you're saying, no you do not think it's possible, which is definitely a perfectly valid answer to questions I've asked. Although I would definitely love to hear what more community members, particularly developers, have to say about the topic.

RyanZA said:
If you want free hosting, I can hook you up at http://www.sgscompilebox.dreamhosters.com/ that I'm paying for anyway for z4mod. Unlimited bandwidth/space. Offer goes out to anybody who wants to host anything for the SGS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bit of topic.. you can host roms?

DocRambone said:
Bit of topic.. you can host roms?
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Click to collapse
Until someone stops me, sure.

RyanZA said:
EDIT: Oh, and to answer your question: No, I don't believe it's possible to make a living off making 3rd party open source tools that only a fraction(technical users) of a device's users will use. If you want to make a living off open source, the best bet is through a company such as Canonical, or by creating applications focused at casual users with as much potential marketshare as possible. Or do what most people do: get a regular 'closed' job, and do open source stuff as a hobby.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with pretty much everything except the part about targeting casual users in order to make money. In my experience technically inclined users, who have an appreciation for a piece of software, are substantially more likely to donate that casual users who lack the knowledge of the work involved. Of course selling software is something that can be more easily achieved when targeting a casual user base, especially if they know nothing of piracy. However it is generally not possible to sell "open-source" software directly.

Benjamin Dobell said:
I agree with pretty much everything except the part about targeting casual users in order to make money. In my experience technically inclined users, who have an appreciation for a piece of software, are substantially more likely to donate that casual users who lack the knowledge of the work involved. Of course selling software is something that can be more easily achieved when targeting a casual user base, especially if they know nothing of piracy. However it is generally not possible to sell "open-source" software directly.
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Click to collapse
Of course it is. Why do you think all of these app stores and market place etc is all catching on? You're never going to get rich off it, but putting up a popular open source application with an advert (and the option to turn it off even) should be able to bring in a pretty good revenue! Social networking seems to do the best for these types of apps.
Also, you'd probably want to diversify if relying on ad money - one banner ad in 25 open source apps, with 100K users each could easily reach a lot of money. And it should be possible to crank out a simple, well made open source app that serves a definite purpose in under 3 months. So with some time investment, in a couple years you'd be able to live off it. No different from closed sourced apps when you you use advertising.
Most important thing though is to make something that
1) the average user understands what it does
2) does the job as simply as possible
3) actually helps the user
4) has as wide a potential market as possible
You could look at firefox as the ultimate in this type of thing.
This is all a lot of work though, I'm sure, and if you're after money, a regular desk job is almost guaranteed to work out better.

RyanZA said:
Of course it is. Why do you think all of these app stores and market place etc is all catching on? You're never going to get rich off it, but putting up a popular open source application with an advert (and the option to turn it off even) should be able to bring in a pretty good revenue! Social networking seems to do the best for these types of apps.
Also, you'd probably want to diversify if relying on ad money - one banner ad in 25 open source apps, with 100K users each could easily reach a lot of money. And it should be possible to crank out a simple, well made open source app that serves a definite purpose in under 3 months. So with some time investment, in a couple years you'd be able to live off it. No different from closed sourced apps when you you use advertising.
Most important thing though is to make something that
1) the average user understands what it does
2) does the job as simply as possible
3) actually helps the user
4) has as wide a potential market as possible
You could look at firefox as the ultimate in this type of thing.
This is all a lot of work though, I'm sure, and if you're after money, a regular desk job is almost guaranteed to work out better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, I mostly meant that it's difficult to "sell" open-source software. If your software is truly open-source then users are likely to download it, compile it and then redistribute it for free, which is sort of reasonable given that it's meant to be open source.
However advertising in a free application is slightly different than selling an application and it does have a lot more potential to succeed. However depending on what you mean by "putting up a popular open source application" I might have moral issues with that. Unless the popular application is your own or you've substantially modified (added a UI etc) to an existing piece of open-source software. Although a lot less likely to happen if your app is free, if it is open-source there is still the chance someone else will distribute it for free, unless of course the non-code assets aren't open.
I definitely do believe that at the moment it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to live off the type of open-source software I initially described. It's a bit saddening though to realise how massively one falls short, hopefully this will change in the future.

About those donations. If I would use it, I would probably donate.
I worked my a** of for the community, providing ROMs and kitchens for 3 years for the HTC S710 and S740 and I got about 4 or 5 donations over that period of time. Sometimes it get's very frustrating, but hang in there, it's worth it after all (there would be no WM 6.5 on the Vox or the Rose without me (dare I say that ), but I wanted it anyway, so I made it and just released it for others as well)!
PS: SAP r3 is open source and it sells veeeeeery good

I think the community can recognize such invaluable work & devote a part of their donations to them, if they are using his software & really think its worth.
I think however small percentage it could be, it would make the developer feel wanted & make him continue devoting his valuable time.
I just read an article either today or yesterday regarding a conference of software developers for android community, & when one developer went to the podium & said he is earning a steady $1-$2 per day, people actually laughed. He retorted, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD. Android hasn't penetrated the markets YET like iPhone. So awareness & earnings are still low.
BTW, a nice GUI would change everything.
Just my 2 cents worth.
PS : In continuation to RyanZA's talk, I would like to mention that if you think you have something worth using, MAKE A LOT of noise about it. THAT's how people notice, use & donate. No one can understand a software's worth until you tell them. Like some WWii prime minister said, if you want the world to understand what you are telling, tell it like you are telling a donkey.

Ben, I think you need to differentiate between recognition, fame & money. Ideas are many have you tried http://www.ideaken.com/ ?

Benjamin Dobell said:
Agreed, I mostly meant that it's difficult to "sell" open-source software. If your software is truly open-source then users are likely to download it, compile it and then redistribute it for free, which is sort of reasonable given that it's meant to be open source.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most companies "built on open-source" provide binaries, and real support for those binaries, and earn a living from that. In an enterprise environment giving support can earn a lot of money (mainly because a lot of companies have policies to only use software/hardware that has decent support). On my last job we had to use a really crappy software, just because the (really) good alternative didn't had a support center in our country.
For the casual users: the marketplaces + ads are a good place to start. If you manage to create something that casual users will use, then it might pay of. Those users don't actaully care about the software being FOSS or not. Actually there aren't many people who care how free an application really is (except for most people working in IT or similar)

If bandwidth is an issue then host it over megaupload and such, problem solved.

ragin said:
BTW, a nice GUI would change everything.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And give users the ability to think they are actually a power user. Most people here at xda can't write even simple scripts, but they do want to try out new and experimental stuff. (on the other hand there are a lot of users who want things that just work, for them give a simple gui saying: "DO DA STUFF")

EarlZ said:
If bandwidth is an issue then host it over megaupload and such, problem solved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate when people upload source code to megaupload. There's github, code.google.com and sf.net. sf.net is although quite old now, the other too are still great when it comes to hosting FOSS stuff.
Github is even nicer since they've added a big "Download" button for the end users.

Huge News for CM fans! Cyanogen Inc.

http://www.droid-life.com/2013/09/18/cyanogenmod-forms-cyanogen-inc-with-7-million-in-funding-to-release-cm-installer-app-through-google-play/
I'm very interested that they have created a deal with a hardware vendor. If I'm not mistaken this is essentially what MIUI has done with Xiaomi in China. I hope it works for CM, they have done as much for Android as Google has in some regards.

I wonder if it's HTC? I'm always rooting for them, I can't believe they're doing so poorly. Says the guy with an LG phone but still.

Probably oppo or Sony. Both of them have helped with CM and contribute more source than legally required.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app

I would have to tend to agree with the Readers over at Droid Life, this is NOT really good news when you consider what is more then likely going to happen when it comes to investors. Mainstream is gonna change CM, it has to for the average user.
I hope that AOKP is able to survive the fallout (so to speak) if the mainstream does bring drastic changes!
Hmm, I can see another OS for android coming on the scene now. With that in mind it could work out for the better, although that doesn't happen to often in these type of situations.
Just MO!

Open source has to financially sustain itself, look at Ubuntu attempting to get corporations involved.

SlimMan said:
I would have to tend to agree with the Readers over at Droid Life, this is NOT really good news when you consider what is more then likely going to happen when it comes to investors. Mainstream is gonna change CM, it has to for the average user.
I hope that AOKP is able to survive the fallout (so to speak) if the mainstream does bring drastic changes!
Hmm, I can see another OS for android coming on the scene now. With that in mind it could work out for the better, although that doesn't happen to often in these type of situations.
Just MO!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there are some pros and cons. Ultimately I think as long as they do what they have stated they will continue to do, which is keep the software open source and develop in accordance with the Apache Licensing guidelines then I imagine it will be ok for the most part. I'm personally very excited to see CM being the default ROM loaded onto point of sale devices.
If xboxfanj is right, and oppo or Sony is the hardware partner these could be great phones. Both hardware manufacturers have made some very high quality handsets in the last year or so and appear to be the manufacturers that are kind of flying under the radar at this point.

Xiutehcuhtli said:
I think there are some pros and cons. Ultimately I think as long as they do what they have stated they will continue to do, which is keep the software open source and develop in accordance with the Apache Licensing guidelines then I imagine it will be ok for the most part. I'm personally very excited to see CM being the default ROM loaded onto point of sale devices.
If xboxfanj is right, and oppo or Sony is the hardware partner these could be great phones. Both hardware manufacturers have made some very high quality handsets in the last year or so and appear to be the manufacturers that are kind of flying under the radar at this point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like CM isn't going to keep everything open, based on what xplodwild is saying. They wanted to license Focal differently and keep it partially proprietary while not giving him anything even though he made the app.

xboxfanj said:
Sounds like CM isn't going to keep everything open, based on what xplodwild is saying. They wanted to license Focal differently and keep it partially proprietary while not giving him anything even though he made the app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Steve Kondik and Koush have told a different story. I will find the article I read where kondik said in no uncertain terms they planned to keep everything open.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

All I can figure from this is that is gonna be hard for Cyanogenmod to win back the community that's supported them this entire time after alienating them like this. Ugly stuff going on behind the scenes in the community, I mean half the reason people on this site support Android as their mobile OS of choice in the first place is because of how open it is.

I look at Boxee as an example of what happens when a community supported open source project begins to make compromises for the sake of corporate partnerships. I think CM are killing themselves because their user base has no interest in a watered down ROM.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using xda app-developers app

Xiutehcuhtli said:
Steve Kondik and Koush have told a different story. I will find the article I read where kondik said in no uncertain terms they planned to keep everything open.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
https://plus.google.com/106978520009932034644/posts/L8FJkrcahPs

xboxfanj said:
https://plus.google.com/106978520009932034644/posts/L8FJkrcahPs
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Click to collapse
Have read this. I prefer to give then the benefit of the doubt before assuming that they have embraced evil and will do nothing more than screw everyone that they ever looked at.
Kondik has made several statements to the effect that they have no plans to close anything off. At the end of the day we will see. Until then, CM had given a LOT to the Android community and I think they have earned at least a little trust. Innocent until proven guilty after all.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

Xiutehcuhtli said:
Have read this. I prefer to give then the benefit of the doubt before assuming that they have embraced evil and will do nothing more than screw everyone that they ever looked at.
Kondik has made several statements to the effect that they have no plans to close anything off. At the end of the day we will see. Until then, CM had given a LOT to the Android community and I think they have earned at least a little trust. Innocent until proven guilty after all.
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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Click to collapse
Xplodwild's post certainly makes sense and he was pretty loyal to CM. He made this project to spearhead Project Nemesis. I understand that CM needs to be able to make money, but I definitely don't want that to be at the cost of user freedom and the dual-licensing seems pretty sketchy. Steve's response as grabs popcorn certainly doesn't alleviate the fears of CM taking the money and running as it were and doesn't reject Guillame's post at all. It all but confirms it. Plus, it certainly doesn't seem fair that only Steve, Ricardo, Koush, and other full-time employees are the only ones being rewarded here. Obviously, you can't pay everyone that fixes spelling mistakes in the code, but Guillame and Andrew Neal (dev of Apollo) or Nebkat (dev of Trebuchet) have made apps in their free times for nothing, which they thought was contributing to a free project, but to have others make money off of their work seems like insanity to me.

Its time to start changing from cm ... If it wasn't for all the devs out their they wouldn't b in the position they are in to profit and claim that hey once u help us we get to do what we want and if u don't like it take a hike ... I'm all for cm expanding into bigger and better but not at the exspense of the people who made them and got them to the status they have ....
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

bigfdaddy2 said:
Its time to start changing from cm ... If it wasn't for all the devs out their they wouldn't b in the position they are in to profit and claim that hey once u help us we get to do what we want and if u don't like it take a hike ... I'm all for cm expanding into bigger and better but not at the exspense of the people who made them and got them to the status they have ....
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4
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Click to collapse
I figured the same thing. Guess we will need a new base to build with lol. Suggestions? I'm a complete Noob when it comes to developing but I understand how the file system and everything INSIDE the phone is set up (for the most part) and want to see about contributing back
Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 4

We all need to band together on this

The nvidia shield tv, the most powerful android device available, which has root, twrp, and custom roms available, along with tons of support keeps failing to get its own proper forum. The discussion page we currently have is unacceptable. There is tons of people doing development on other sites as well that have no proper place to post it. Please everyone, take a few minutes a day, and request that we get a proper forum added for this device.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1660354

I agree. Thank you for taking the time to remind us about this.

More than anything, this device is missing developer support. It seems that a lot of people didnt want to see this happen. Google for one, with the restrictive OS, how easy it could have been to include an option to switch between regular Android and the mode thats been stripped of or had so many classic Android functions hidden. It blows my mind the hdmi blocks, drm, and other capabilities that get removed for the sole purpose of corporate greed. I know I'm not supposed to rant here, so consider this a rally to Nvidia TV owners to let others know how awesome of a device this could be and so hopefully the user/developer base can grow and get some proper treatment from the cable companies and others who refuse to support powerful devices like this

You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.

zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Click to collapse
Why do other Android TV devices have a proper forum then? Maybe devs would take the device seriously, if XDA took the device seriously. I would understand that argument if it wasn't proven to be untrue with the various other forums that have been created for other tv boxes.
- Nexus Player (Android TV)
- Amazon Fire TV (Fire OS - Even more limited than Android TV)
- Mad Catz Mojo
- Ouya
Just to name a few...
I'm not trying to start a problem. It just seems like we're presented with a different argument ever other day stating why the device doesn't have or deserve a proper forum. Not too long ago, the argument was the lack of interest. Then it was the lack of development, even though we currently have custom AOSP and CyanogenMod ports, Root, TWRP and Ubuntu.
If you search for the device in the device search, you will find not one, but two separate "places" to create topics for this device. One isn't a forum. It's just a list of threads that use the shield-tv tag. If a thread is created here, it will actually post in the Android Development and Hacking > Miscellaneous Android Development forum.
The other is a sub-forum of Android TV and Stick Computers. It isn't a proper forum and it is also buried. The device isn't listed in devdb, so there's no way to add projects.
There is active interest in the device and there are a ton of users. At the moment we're using nVidia's website/forums, but we'd prefer to use XDA. Why not give in to demand? You could make a lot of XDA users happy.

zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Click to collapse
The joke is on you and I don't care that my response will get on your nerves. You were better off keeping it hush hush than to fail at manipulative excuses.

zelendel said:
You guys ha e to remember 2 things
1. We are mainly a mobile device forum.
2. It would not take much for a modded TV to be blocked.
Also a forum will not bring developers. People develop for devices they get and many have no interest in android TV and see them like 3d screens. A fad that will fade away after some time.
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Click to collapse
@ 1. So just because the shield is tied to a wallsocket and uses an external screen it is not entitled to a forum? That's a rather peculiar argument....?
@ 2. I don't think you understand the Nvidia Shield Android TV, it is just as moddable as any Android device...
And last but certainly not least you claim people don't have interest while we have proved this by the community development for the device so far. BTW the interest in the device might be bigger than you think. For instance on the Nvidia forums there are already over 10k comments in the shield tv subsection, this is over 25% of the shield portable's total comments and over 20% of the shield tablet's total comment. Considering the device is only available for a short period and is only available in the US, this means public interest is huge!
So in other words, please come up with better arguments or just add one device forum, how much harm can it possibly do?

That would be a game changer for this thing.... ... I'm in!!!!!!!!!!

Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.

didn't know..
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.

They have proper forums for the Moto 360! A watch forum??? Give me a break. Android wear is even more restrictive then Android TV!
I think XDA admins have a bug up there arse about Nvidia. Pure and simple. If it was AMD they would already have everything.
Stop defending them.

I too, would like to register my interest for such a forum.

While I am a newcomer, I would like to register my support for this movement too. It would be nice to have singular outlet to use.

zizika said:
XDA is some kind of mafia... I thought it's free and open, really sad.
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Click to collapse
XDA is a privately owned, membership based site.... Just to correct you.
And the Admin here decide things like forum sections.
Perhaps they'll add a full section, perhaps not. Getting angry about it isn't going to help at all.
As said, if developers are actually holding back work because of a lack of a full forum, they are only making you guys suffer. Seems a little backwards.
Let's remain respectful everyone, please.
Darth
Forum Moderator

The Nexus Q has it's own forum here and NOT the Nvidia Shield Console? That's just stupid.

zelendel said:
Look guys. I'm just offering up ideas. The mods don't add the forums the admins do. You have asked in to proper forum and now it's up to them. They may or may not decide to give it a forum. Why or why not is their choice.
As for your statements. Just ask Linus what he thinks of Nvidia? Not the best to work with on an open source project.
The 10k posts? While might seem alot is not a whole lot on a site that sees that many every few hours.
If interest is deemed bug enough then it will get a forum. If not then it won't. No point in making thread after thread about it really.
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I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing software for proprietary devices. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours" and all the drivers and images are provided on their developer website so.... I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a major shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons. Im surprised

ElwOOd_CbGp said:
I knew somebody was gonna say something like this. Linus Torvalds made that comment about Nvidia years ago while thwy were developing proprietary processors. Nvidia has already made it known how thwy feel about their Android devices. "Once you buy it its yours". I still manage to find what Im looking for anyway so I can really not care very much less but this really seems like a shrug off for some ridiculous and arbitrary reasons and Im surprised
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Click to collapse
And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.

zelendel said:
And it still holds true. Due to lack of any proper documentation it is really difficult to develop for these devices. Why do you think only a few even use their stuff and they had to look at other options. Yeah it's users. Do what you will with it. Doesn't mean they will help you along with it.
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Click to collapse
All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
,

loonix said:
All the more reason for hackers to teach them a lesson? How many manufacturers post steps to unlock bootloader on their own website and encourage tinkering with their ROMs making most all source code available? Sounds more like someone has an axe to grind and doesn't care how juvenile it may look. I personally can't wait for more ROMs to get released (including CMs) while making those who want to curb down the development, look foolish. I am half surprised discussion about evil nVidia is not banned already
,
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Click to collapse
More then you think. Why do you think Qualcomm devices are so popular among modders? Because there is all the proper documentation for working with the chip. Same reason that mediatech and exynos chip are not popular. As for unlocking the bootloader. Heck most oem show you how to do it.
As for CM. I would wish that on my worst enemy.
Now if people want to develop for it then do it. Having a forum or not will not bring more or less development.

I'm amazed that this is even an argument. A forum that generates revenues from page views doesn't want its users to have a place to view one of it's valued devices. Baffling really. Someone definitely is bitter about something. What harm is there in creating a section?

So you think you are developer? A new born superstar?

I was thinking long long time before I finally came to a conclusion to write this, rather frustrated, post. Believe me, it is not easy to put it together with clear mind and intention to not to offend or be prejudicial.
A major part of XDA is spinning around custom ROMs ... a f*cking MAJOR part..... giving custom ROM developers feeling that it is actually a legitimate place to offer, or more precisely market, their so called "inventions"...
While I am a member of XDA only a short time, I can imagine what spirit was once behind this server. Spirit of sharing knowledge, progress. There are still lot of members, who live up to this spirit, but there is also a lot, who are just "selling" their product for "THANKS" buttons, and of course DONATIONS.
There is nothing wrong with thanks or donations, should they support an effort that leads into more community education and involvement. My concern is heading more in direction of so called ROM gluers.... Guys, who don't actually develop anything at all, just collect work of other people, glue it together and then release it under some bombastic name like: "Project Saturndancers: Timelapse IV".... and the all greedy flash junkies are flashing, in frenzy of having something more on their mobile than they already paid for.
And then comes the bitter morning, the wake-up where some features are not working the way they should, some not at all. And the reply of the "all-mighty" developer ? Read the OP -- I guarantee nothing, you flash on your own risk....
Agree, we all flash on our own risk. But if it is so, then it would be at least fair, if so called "ROM Developers" end up the marketing of their own semi-products, promising "Awesome sound" "Unparalleled performance" "Superior battery life" and other rather qualitative measures.
If such praxis continues, XDA is just changing from a developer server in some sort of whore-house.

ondrejvaroscak said:
While I am a member of XDA only a short time, I can imagine what spirit was once behind this server. Spirit of sharing knowledge, progress.
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You are absolutely correct. Way back years ago, while Windows Mobile 5 was around on PDAs, XDA started up for this exact purpose. We had many amazing people with intricate knowledge of how the operating system and devices were all put together. They shared their work and knowledge with others and it was a place all about learning.
But many years have passed, times have changed. Every man and his dog has a smartphone nowadays. It's become easy for people to zip up other mods together and release their "own". But as you say, when it comes to providing support or working out issues, they sometimes don't have the knowledge to do this. But in saying this, there are MANY skilled developers who come up with amazing work, and put in countless hours in providing and supporting their work. All for people to modernise or improve their smartphones, and not be charged anything for the service.
But even back in the early days, we had "ROM Kitchens" where anyone could cook up a Windows Mobile ROM with features they wanted, and they then posted their ROMs on XDA. Each was customised to how they wanted.
Nowadays, it's just down to the sheer number of Android users, that we're seeing this explosion of ROMs.
All I can suggest is you only use the ones you are interested in, and simply not use or look at the others. At the end of the day, they are doing no harm. if they are (for example bricking devices), then we will intervene.

the_scotsman said:
You are absolutely correct. Way back years ago, while Windows Mobile 5 was around on PDAs, XDA started up for this exact purpose. We had many amazing people with intricate knowledge of how the operating system and devices were all put together. They shared their work and knowledge with others and it was a place all about learning.
But many years have passed, times have changed. Every man and his dog has a smartphone nowadays. It's become easy for people to zip up other mods together and release their "own". But as you say, when it comes to providing support or working out issues, they sometimes don't have the knowledge to do this. But in saying this, there are MANY skilled developers who come up with amazing work, and put in countless hours in providing and supporting their work. All for people to modernise or improve their smartphones, and not be charged anything for the service.
But even back in the early days, we had "ROM Kitchens" where anyone could cook up a Windows Mobile ROM with features they wanted, and they then posted their ROMs on XDA. Each was customised to how they wanted.
Nowadays, it's just down to the sheer number of Android users, that we're seeing this explosion of ROMs.
All I can suggest is you only use the ones you are interested in, and simply not use or look at the others. At the end of the day, they are doing no harm. if they are (for example bricking devices), then we will intervene.
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Not to be wrong understood, I don't say that everybody is like this. There are of course great people around here. And of course I agree, it's at the end everybody's decision, with whom to bake the cake