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What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
I am not active in the Dream forum, but I will add my thoughts here.
Certain sections of XDA's forums are subject to stricter moderation then others due to the sheer volume of active members in them. For example, the Raphael has seen a US release on all three nationwide carriers, whereas the prior models only saw release on one carrier. This led to more people buying the Raphael, and a large influx of members in the related forums. Due to that influx, we moderators needed to step up our monitoring of those forums in order to keeping them as clean and concise as possible.
This same example applies to the Dream due to it being the first Android phone released.
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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NotATreoFan said:
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
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Just thought I would add my two cents in here ( like anyone cares ) because I too have been irritated once or twice by over zealous moderation. Once by a moderator from the Dream forum who came over to the Kaiser forum to delete a whole conversation, because he " thought " we were getting too heated in our debate over M$ supposed actions . There was no flamebaiting, He just thought.
And several times by threads ( not mine ) that were closed without warning or stated reason. I know this is a huge site with a lot of heavy traffic and the Mods are " overworked and under paid " . I also realize that Mods are from around the world, and Moderation style is subject to differing personalities, social and interpersonal customs from different countries. But common courtesy is universal. While many people don't deserve it, please take the time to include a note on why, the thread requires moderation. If you don't have the time , then maybe you should pass the job on to someone who can take the time.
Also in my 1 1/2 years on this site, ( six mo lurking and 1 yr member ) I have PM'd three mods, asking them to please explain their actions in moderating a thread I was posting in, and in all three cases, received nothing, not even an acknowledgement.
This is not a criticism, just my two cents, should someone read this. I have my favorite mods, (natf is one ) Dave and Josh are excellent in the Kaiser forums, mostly because they adhere to the basic tenet, " Moderation in Moderation. "
mikechannon said:
I realise you are being modest there, and the truth is we do care what members think and voicing concern in a calm fashion is appreciated and this kind of feedback is what moderates the Moderators. This is what makes us a community and avoids an "us and them" situation developing.
I don't have anything of value to add to NotATreoFan's comments which match my own feelings on the matter and IMHO reflect the kind of balance we need between being tolerant, courteous and yet maintaining a degree of organisation.
Mike
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Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
denco7 said:
Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
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AND they are simply men and women They could make mistakes, they act differently in the same situation. Suggestions and opinions are always welcome!
i reckon there should be a new button next to the report post button that serves as an appeal button if someone thinks that a tread has been closed for no reason the the button should allow for appeal. a box is filled n explaining the thread and why there was no reason to delete it this is then pmd to the closer of the thread then negotaiations will start
Please do not take my original post too harshly. I do appreciate the mods here on XDA-developers and think that they do a great job. But at the same time when the mods get a little over zealous this seemed the best way to bring up my protest. (I could not PM the moderator in question because I do not know who was closing the threads.)
So thanks again for making this a great place to come back to over the years and keep up the good work.
JanetPanic said:
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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If you ask me there aren't enough locked threads in the dream section. There are over 80 different threads for the new haykuro build there, 80!!! Probably more because i stopped counting at page 20. I also might add that the main haykuro thread has over 6000 posts and counting. The dream section is out of control and needs serious moderator intervention. One moderator simply cannot do all this himself. I know the dream mod, or at least the only active mod there that i can see and he is excellent at not only helping people but moderating in general. Let a thread be self governed? That's a very scary though!!! I am a moderator at another site and i can say it is not a moderators job to be a friend, be respectful or give you an explaination as to why he or she did what they did. Yes i do give an explaination and most mods on here do as well but they are here to maintain the rules of the forum and the upkeep of the forum in general. If threads were locked its more than likely because you or others got off topic, double posted or started a new thread when another about the exact same thing already existed. Case in point, there is a section for members to post questions to mods about anything already and you opened a new thread on the subject.
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
knight4linux said:
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
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Haha yeah the sticky at the top about the rules says a little over 23,000 views. The hacking thread has been viewed over 300,000 times, go figure. I probably report 15 posts a day to try and help but your right its outta control.
Hello Friends,
Well i have seen these site and i am quite surprise here that though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.As i am not a active member but ya i will add my though if any and will discuss So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason. Thanx
can someone please unlock this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=429808&page=22
It is not that rules and regulations are not in place in this site. They are posted all over the place. In fact, if you look at my sig, I have them there as a hyperlink (many other members do the same). Why do threads and posts get locked, moved, or otherwise deleted left and right? It is because lots of users (particularly new ones but seasoned users also) do not read these rules. They do not know that they should search before posting or opening new threads; they do not know that there are sections to ask questions that are not relevant to the section they posted at; they do not know that profanity shouldn't be used around here due to a large young crowd; they do not know that flaming (particularly for no apparent reason) is strictly prohibited....
Moderators have little time to be messing around with people who simply do not understand that there are rules that must be followed (or read for that matter). Hence, they close the threads with no previous notice and at times, leave no excuse behind. They don't do it out of the content of their hearts, and they are definitely not watching over every single thread at all times. If you see a thread being closed, it is normally due to someone complaining about it, and more often than not, mods will analyze the trend of the thread and if necessary either warn users to stop, or just flat out close it (normally they warn unless the thread itself is breaking the rules... think of posting warez for instance).
I have yet to see abuse of power by a mod in this forum. And I am pretty sure that if there happens to be a mod that does abuse his/her God-given powers.... let's just say that they will be judged by a higher power
My 2 cents!
Although some moderators try and go out of their way to leave a message as to why they lock a thread, that is not their job. Our job is to make sure people are following the rules.
Here is a little scenario, i log on at night and jump over to the D&H section.... there i find 10 new threads asking questions.
A) I can delete the threads
B) I can close the threads by simply going through and checking every thread and then closing.
C) i can individually open each thread and leave a message for each person
D) i can wait for another moderator to do it
E) move the thread for them
Well i cant delete them or people will think their thread never got posted and just post it AGAIN. If you move peoples threads for them they think they can post anywhere and it will just be moved where it needs to go. I dont have time to open every thread and leave a message for every person everytime, and if i leave it for another moderator, it might not get done.
Really i am only left with checking all of the threads and closing them. if you have a question you can READ the rules, as it is your resonsibilty as a member, and find the answer. (Or of course you can pm a mod)
You guys have to remember that there are over 1,537,526 members on this site and around 66 mods and admin. We do our best to help you guys but we dont always have the time to write a personal letter for everyone of your and put it in you lunch box.
I agree (not that it matters). Mods have absolutely NO responsibility to post why they closed a thread...Why? Because they already are posted...in the rules up top. Its you, the new users that have the resposibility. That responsibility to read the rules before you post (RTFM). It even says at the bottom (of the rules) what will happen if they are not followed.
And by allowing multiple threads of the SAME simple questions (Especially in a phones development section) this completely ruins development and progress, not to mention this is a free and public forum. That means its hosted on servers, and these duplicate threads/posts start to add up.
Trust me. Frequent the forums for more than a few months and it'll start to wear on you too, almost as much as it does to the mods.
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
theslam08 said:
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
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That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
neoobs said:
That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
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Mhm, and you do what you can, I notice somethings being done by you, which is good that something is being done. I used to mod/administrate big places so I know what its like, its a pain when people cant search, or arent sure of where to post so they post anywhere (sometimes in the effort of 'just getting an answer').
This causes the clutter, especially when there are multiple 'different but very similar' type topics being created, and its tricky to know which to close and which not to close. Thats why I think maybe a separate forum 'might' be the best solution, because as of right now, bricks are happening pretty quickly and thats not good (no one to blame, just the anticipation again).
I appreciate the backing, hope 'something' can be done, its just really crowded right now (making the 'new' browsers get lost [causing the multiple similar topic issue], and your job harder).
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
Ryanmo5 said:
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
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Agreed 100%, it seems there are alot of stickies there, maybe redundant on some, but are necessary on others. There should be a way to make it distinguishable between information/guides, developments, and problems. They do need to be updated as well.
I agree, a forum might not be the best way because there might be 'lost' posts which would not work either (like the new magic thread that showed up, though I dont dissagree with that simply because the OP is correct, android is android, and the magic needs some help, maybe because we stole quite a bit from it too? lol. but still posting to 'get help' anywhere).
Is there a modification for vb that makes stickies different color than the regular topics? I never administrated vb only ipb and smf so I dont know. But that would be a big help there, then the new comers can instantly see which are informal.
Im trying to report, to help you so you dont need to spend as much time 'looking' as doing the task. Its not 'too' bad right now, when I first posted though omg it was disaster. Once the new rom comes out though....thennn its gonna be biig trouble again.
Update: I was looking at something...the first forum, named Dream. That I was actually looking at for the first time, it seems pretty useless really. A lot of the topics in there could definitely go into the development thread...OR that forum could get changed to something else and cleaned up. There arent many 'general' topics for the phone I dont think, whats general for the phone? What is the g1? Maybe but useless indeed. So maybe instead of MAKING a new forum, just change that one and clean it up. Make it a troubleshooting forum, or a tutorial section, or just updates, or something I dont know. But maybe just better use of it I think.
What's with all the negativity and aggression in the DHD Dev Forum? I came by a Sensation to 'practice' on so I didn't brick my DHD being a noob when it comes to all this, and I managed to have it rooted and running custom ROMs in no time thanks to the very helpful STICKY'S - take note DHD Dev Mods - and felt confident that I could wander over to the DHD part of XDA with the condifence that it would be just as streamlined and easy to read. But what do I find? Massive CAPS everywhere, bold red writing carrying warnings, and a generally negative and maybe even elitist atmosphere. You're doing no favours being so blinkered in your approach to that forum, and the Sensation side of XDA puts this to shame - maybe not in content, as it's only just getting going - but in general ease of use, browsing, and helpfulness, they've got you whipped hands down. So to qualify this as a question rather than a rant - can somebody explain why this is, and if it is likely to be tidied up and changed? Because frankly, it's a bit of a mess at the moment.
Good point well made.... Not a nice atmosphere at all....
The atmosphere in the DHD Dev thread has been that way for the last few months. Or at least that's when I noticed it being a little bit on the sour side compared to what I was used to.
I can't say for certain that I know why this change came about but I think it had something to do with a growing suspicion that some people taking others work and labelling it as their own. Not asking beforehand, refusing to acknowledge afterwards. There were accusations of theft being bandied about too but I am not up to speed on those.
To be honest, my experience here has been great, despite whatever (sometimes imagined) mood the threads seem to present. Everyone I have PM'd for help/advice has been friendly and accommodating.
I too notice the aggression, you will find these posts in dev sections of almost every phone thread on xda. I think due to the popularity of the Desire HD has lead to the mass posts and moderators regulating to the point where the atmosphere is unwelcoming.
We are in the process of cleaning up the whole site. As for being able to find things in the sensation threads that IS because the threads are still new. Wait a bit and the VS threads will pop up. As for unwelcoming that is not true. We welcome all to the threads with the understanding that this is a development based forum and people are expected to put in their own effort by searching and reading, which few seem to do but instead make threads about questions answered a hundred times over.
Will the threads be getting cleaned up. Yes they will. This is a large site and we all do this on our free time so it is a large job but we are making progress.
As for the warning in red. Yes it has come to this and more. For far to long as the site been getting filled with pointless threads, flaming, and overall rudeness which will no longer be tolerated. As for people using others work without asking. Yes this is and always will be a problem. We can ban people for it left and right but then they just go somewhere else and still use it.
zelendel said:
We are in the process of cleaning up the whole site. As for being able to find things in the sensation threads that IS because the threads are still new. Wait a bit and the VS threads will pop up. As for unwelcoming that is not true. We welcome all to the threads with the understanding that this is a development based forum and people are expected to put in their own effort by searching and reading, which few seem to do but instead make threads about questions answered a hundred times over.
Will the threads be getting cleaned up. Yes they will. This is a large site and we all do this on our free time so it is a large job but we are making progress.
As for the warning in red. Yes it has come to this and more. For far to long as the site been getting filled with pointless threads, flaming, and overall rudeness which will no longer be tolerated. As for people using others work without asking. Yes this is and always will be a problem. We can ban people for it left and right but then they just go somewhere else and still use it.
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Thanks for the response. It's good to hear that the mods are aware of the current issues affecting DHD and the site as a whole. I had written a much larger response but then this ridiculous PC (MoD use the very latest technology...) presented me with BSOD.
I hope that things will improve in the near future, as a beginer with Android, it does certainly seem pretty daunting in the dev forum with some serious digging being required to find useful information, and it would be a lot easier if it were all in one handy place. There is certainly an air of 'knowledge is power' there - and I'm sure nobody can say that is how they wished to be treated when they first joined the community (which is in breach of the forum rules btw). 'We had to deal with it, so now you do' doesn't exactly foster a feeling of being welcome.
Thanks again for replying though, I can't say newcomers are ingnored can I!
You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions. I can honestly say that i have rarely seen a response in a Dev thread that was directly related to moving the rom forward from a true development perspective. Most of the guys complaining about the rules don't seem to actually understand the rules themselves. Let me clarify.... Starting a thread is not the same as posting within one. There is one rule that most of the forum police seem to always over look and that is 2.3
"2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior."
So before you jump down someones throat about not following rules maybe try taking a look at the rules and make sure you understand them yourself. I'm sure someone will ask how this relates to our phone and the answer is that it doesn't. It does however relate directly to the e4gt community.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
I think the biggest reason people get flamed for asking questions in the dev thread is that they don't follow rule number 1 of the forum rules...
"1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news."
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17681946
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
The thanks button is there to prevent a ton of low/no content "awesome work" posts. Who wants to wade thru posts like that? I sure don't.
Honestly. Based on the wording of these rules. The dev section should be for releases then locked down. Cause honestly there is very little talk in the dev threads that can be considered development related. Almost everything I have seen in the dev threads since I have been on XDA could really be considered general talk. Let me say too that I'm not opposed to having the dev section only for releases. I think it would be a lot nicer if it was reserved for releases only. Most of the actual dev work takes place on twitter or the IRC from what I've seen. So it wouldn't hender development.
As for people jumping down someones throat for asking a question. Honestly. I think some people just look for a reason to play forum police. I have been called every name in the book. Sometimes I deserved it. Other times I didn't. Just have to ignore it sometimes. If someone sees a post that shouldn't be. Use the report button. If you're happy with a ROM or an answer. Use the thanks button. Google the hell out of ****. Best advice I could give anyone. But I will never agree with someone jumping someones ass for asking a simple question. We were all new to the forums at one time. Unfortunately you can't teach class.
A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Its because your taking valuable space from others that have to let everyone know they are "downloading it now!!" instead of giving useful feedback for the community.
Its the me mentality.... Blame society and the educational system.
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.
ungovernable1977 said:
The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.
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Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
iSaint said:
Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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Dont get me wrong, I dont have any problem with your humor... just saying that when its funny people tend to forgive off topic, but if its phrased as a question, you are told to piss off... its just really vague. I used to rarely post in Dev in the epic4g forums, as for a long time the threads WERE development... but as we all know, the devs tend to IRC or twitter or whatever... its not in the XDA threads like it used to be. I actually really miss that, I could pop in whenever and learn from the ones who know what they're doing... I really feel weird going to a chatroom at 35 years old, and regardless, dont have time, I have my own real world 5 year old to raise. Anyways, maybe they should REALLY crack down, and if its not DEVELOPMENT it goes in the general forum... I asked a question in the dev thread about how to flash CNA, more clarifying what the preferred method is with the devs, as thats who I usually listen to... and it turned into a flamewar... it was stupid... I should have just walked away, but I have just seen a lot of people get blasted with a dozen posts for something really innocuous... so I decided to say something, and actually I should have paid more attention to which CNA thread I was in... they look the same, just different off topic conversation at any given time! But questions pertaining to the ROM... cant have that... cant have that.
The solution?
How about we lock the development threads after the developer has posted what they needed to? Why don't we also close the Q&A section so people don't start
flamewars about questions being asked multiple times? You know what, we might as well just close the entire forum and make it so only developers can join and share their work together.
This should help you out some:
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
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5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
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15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
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XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.
I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.
jerdog said:
This should help you out some:
XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.
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Oh there it is... right in the rules...
scarmon25 said:
I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.
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In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours
jerdog said:
In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours
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Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.
scarmon25 said:
Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.
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Agreed.
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Devi0124 said:
You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
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Read here please
"Thinking of posting a new thread???
Use the search button on the top bar between "New Posts" and "Quick Links"
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics that have threads already existing or [Q] questions in the development forums!
The thread will be locked with no notice and/or up to a temp BAN!!.
Thats the big difference from even a year ago... all the actual development work is being done offsite, either twitter (why I dont know), IRC, or the dev crews own sites. It used to be where the Devs would discuss their work in the Dev thread, and it was totally obvious that if you posted something that wasnt actually developing, you would feel like an ass. But becuase the work has shifted off-site, the dev threads look like ghost towns if everyone follows the rules, AND always errors on the side of not posting... so people not used to this new dynamic start posting 'wheres the update', 'what about adding this feature'..... as they would not be seeing any actual development going on. Just lock down the Dev threads, so theres no debate... if youre actually working on the rom or whatever, the OP/Mods can allow you to post in it... then all the troll minimods get get bent and if they talk **** in general they can get flagged and vacations. If you aren't listen in the OP as a developer working on the project, or maybe beta testing a release for the Devs, no posting! Simple. I think the days of XDA being only devs is long gone, as those devs would move on if they did not have a forum to interact with their userbase... as some have to places where people with bad attitudes get banned before people that god forbid have a question. I agree, do away with Q&A... its more on topic than most crap in general, that way theres a dev (downloads) section, and everything else. they nobody has to worry about 'wah, this thread is cluttered and I wanna vent on people, so im gonna talk **** THEN get the mods to clean it up'. The funny part is the drama is actually being created by those not taking part in these conversations, theyre too busy playing minimod to pay attention. 1 question in a dev thread, directly pertaining to that ROM and that ROM alone, and its answer, even if its and answer and 'search next time' is a lot less than that answer plus 5 different little pricks dictating what they think belongs where.
Your quotes of the rules only highlight the fact that they are vague and outdated, as very little actual development happens here anymore... sorry.
wase4711 said:
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics [...] or [Q] questions in the development forums!
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this really can't get any more clear. he is clearly referring to new THREADS, not posts.
Seems to me that a lot of people have thin skin around here now adays. SO what's the big deal someone new comes along and asks opinions? We used to do it all the time and the other developers did not get so easily offended. It's just an opinion of someone using that particular ROM and in no way it says you suck! Lighten up for crying out loud. There is a lot of BS in every thread I ever been on and most of them don't get into thousands of posts because everyone is talking about the ROM or helping someone out. Stop censoring people!
For one thing, its clutter, for another, it can be easily mistaken for a "bad rom/good rom scenario. It eventually winds down to a spiraling tornado of arguments and next thing you know, devs leave. Either way.. there is NO such thing as a best rom. You can't label something factual on personal opinion. Instead of asking for a good rom, try them out and see for yourself what the hype is about. And for those spamming to get the 10 posts, actually make them helpful sounds like a lot, but its not that hard.
Seriously. Get over it.
So what? They usually get gone by the way side. I have never seen anything like this on XDA as what's going on lately. And this is not about what's the Best ROM. are you saying that even questioning the new rules gets threads closed? Is this what XDA has come to? Is that why some of the best people have left? And no, I am not going to mention names.
BTW, I am just saying what a lot of people are thinking. Everybody is a newby at one tome or another and some go on to contribute to this site. Making them feel like crap when they first get here only damages us all.
ejc1214 said:
Seems to me that a lot of people have thin skin around here now adays. SO what's the big deal someone new comes along and asks opinions? We used to do it all the time and the other developers did not get so easily offended. It's just an opinion of someone using that particular ROM and in no way it says you suck! Lighten up for crying out loud. There is a lot of BS in every thread I ever been on and most of them don't get into thousands of posts because everyone is talking about the ROM or helping someone out. Stop censoring people!
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You may think of it as censorship and all that is entailed with that line of thinking but just remember 1 little thing from back when you registered at this site:
xda-developers Registration said:
...The owners of xda-developers reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason ...and agree to abide by the xda-developers rules
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I am right there with ya as far as what your trying to say, but always remember that we agree to abide by the rules of these forums when we sign up.
Have a nice day!
Sure, the owners. Are the owners or the moderators that develop ROMs making the decisions? Just saying that for years nothing was going on and now this is happening. Some people just want opinions to try things so what? In the scheme of things is it really killing this site? Nope!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=30238970
This is a good example thanks to our mod buddy..
I have been around, since 2007, and I can tell you that these sort of rom comparison, what's best, etc threads have always been considered useless and generally closed.
Its a matter of opinion, some people love themed roms, some may not, some may like AOSP, sense, whatever, its to much of a personal choice for this sort of thread to be anything other than a yelling contest, and I have seen enough turn into 1) devs advertising their roms or 2) a flame war between users saying that their favorite dev is the "best".
Also, XDA is about learning, we are not here to spoonfeed you, read, search, learn, we did it, so why shouldn't you? (you in this case referring to the sort of people who open these threads and get shot down for it).
I also won't tolerate flaming or trolling, so if you see what you consider to be a silly thread, report it, move on, don't respond, you are just making it worse.
If anyone wishes to discuss the finer points of XDA's rules, feel free to PM me.
And on that note, thread closed.
veyka said:
I have been around, since 2007, and I can tell you that these sort of rom comparison, what's best, etc threads have always been considered useless and generally closed.
Its a matter of opinion, some people love themed roms, some may not, some may like AOSP, sense, whatever, its to much of a personal choice for this sort of thread to be anything other than a yelling contest, and I have seen enough turn into 1) devs advertising their roms or 2) a flame war between users saying that their favorite dev is the "best".
Also, XDA is about learning, we are not here to spoonfeed you, read, search, learn, we did it, so why shouldn't you? (you in this case referring to the sort of people who open these threads and get shot down for it).
I also won't tolerate flaming or trolling, so if you see what you consider to be a silly thread, report it, move on, don't respond, you are just making it worse.
If anyone wishes to discuss the finer points of XDA's rules, feel free to PM me.
And on that note, thread closed.
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Or pm me
See what I did there
Thread reclosed lol
XDA Moderator
Hello everyone,
well, I've just signed up on this platform. Been using it for quite a while now, but only passively, downloading some great ROMs for my SGSII.
I am a developer myself, so i figured signing up and helping developers find and eliminate bugs. But wtf?
You can't be serious about this. I have to spam 10 "useless" posts before I'm allowed to post something serious???
What really bothers me, is all this "you must not noob around here" talk, though I see countless posts disregarding this very rule. There are posts with one or two sentences, most of them stupid noob questions, which should be avoided, and since there is often everything quoted, those small posts take up to a full screen or even more and bring nothing to the table.
So, from my point of view, a boundary like this one: at least 10 posts for contributing to developer discussions, is plainly ridiculous. It does not prevent newbies from spamming just as much, but it keeps users with serious intentions away.
I thought I had signed up on a developers platform.
If I'm getting something totally wrong, please illuminate me
You know what might help you? Searching before posting. There are so many threads like this that it's unbelievable they still pop up. You are definitely getting something totally wrong here - you don't need to spam to get 10 posts. All you need to do is answer questions in your device's Q&A forums. You claim to be a dev, but the simple fact that you've posted a thread like this makes me highly doubt that. If you really have something to contribute in a dev area, 10 posts should be a walk in the park for you.
Well I don't care what you think about my dev status, and it doesn't really matter, does it.
Of course I've found posts "similar" to that one, but they just end up as a spam paradise, where all new members just try to get their 10 posts.
I really wanted to start a debate here, how counter-productive this rule might be.
pane_moody said:
Well I don't care what you think about my dev status, and it doesn't really matter, does it.
Of course I've found posts "similar" to that one, but they just end up as a spam paradise, where all new members just try to get their 10 posts.
I really wanted to start a debate here, how counter-productive this rule might be.
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No point starting a debate because you will inevitably lose. Trust me on this one. In fact, I personally think the 10 posts should be increased to 25. That way, spam is reduced in both the dev areas and other areas(you can't spam to 25 posts without being caught, and thus fewer people reach 25 posts, meaning that there is less useless posting in the dev area).
And also, as for your dev status as you put it, it does matter a fair amount. Should you be a dev and have something to contribute in a dev forum, then why do you find it so difficult to get 10 non-spamming posts?
Well. OK. First up, I meant, it doesn't matter to me if you doubt me being a dev.
Anyway.
I think I wont have problems helping others or answering questions.
Thanks for the input.
But still: you guys seem so eager to protect this forum from spam and trash, but it is still full of it. Much to my own displeasure. Beginning with totally over-used quoting and over-dimensional signatures with blinking animations and what-so-ever.
I would like this forum to be a clean, professional and productive plattform, but even those rules can't manage that.
First of off, Nigeldg is totally right in the fact that 10 posts really isn't hard to get to.
With the 5 minute restrictions in place, making 10 posts can still be done really easily and quickly.
All that needs to be done is for you to go to your devices forum and help out some people there, because as you say yourself there are a lot of noob questions that get asked. If they're noob questions, it really shouldn't be difficult for you to either answer them, or point them in the right direction.
If, on the off chance, there's no threads in your devices general and/or q&a section that you can post constructively in, take a look in Android General and Android Q&A. There's always questions being asked around there which are easy to be answered.
It should also be even easier for you, compared to the average user, if you are indeed a developer. It means that you should have some great knowledge which can help people out.
Now, regarding what you said about threads similar to this ending up as a spam fest, what makes you think this will end differently?
You're right about the fact that a load of these threads end up like that, so surely adding another one (to the big load of them already existing) won't help the cause in the slightest.
If instead of making this thread and simply gaining a few easy posts, you could have spent this time helping people out and been even closer to being able to post where you'd like.
On a final note, the rule is in place because it works. It might not work perfectly, but no system ever will. If the limit doesn't exist, there's too much spamming. If the limit gets put too high, then it'll turn people away.
I'm all in favour of the limit being raised to say 20/25, but if those in charge don't want to make the change, they won't.
Moaning about the rule will not change that, especially considering this topic has been covered more times than I could bare to count.
Closed.