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Now we have some official information about regional availability.
In a nutshell, WP7 will support 5 languages (English, French, Italian, German and Spanish), and Marketplace will be available in 17 countries (Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, France, Germany, Hong Kong, India, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland, UK and United States).
While at first I thought - fine, I'll just import one from wherever it's available, it won't work.
First of all, it will be next to useless if you speak Dutch or Russian, for example - it won't have dictionaries for auto-correction or, in the worst case, won't have the input characters necessary.
What's even worse, you won't be able to buy applications if your market isn't supported.
Big disappointment...
Disappointing low availability in the initial rush. I'd expected more of Microsoft.
Lol. You guys are way too harsh. Do you know how many carriers those markets contain? A LOT.
Rolling out an entirely new software platform and entirely new devices is not an easy process. Lighten up, they're doing an excellent job.
Iridox said:
Lol. You guys are way too harsh. Do you know how many carriers those markets contain? A LOT.
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No, we're not.
Apple iTunes is the only marketplace that supports selling/buying applications in those regions. And same goes for music services (iTunes Music Store) versus Zune.
Google after over a year of Android still haven't launched anything in northern Europe. It's super annoying that we're left behind innovation this easy. I'd expected more of Microsoft, who have a established business selling software and services in all the European countries, to be able to launch in all these regions at the same time.
Iridox said:
Lol. You guys are way too harsh.
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I'm not harsh, I'm disappointed because I'm left out of the party, even though I live in a country that almost 4 times as many mobile phones in use as in France, where Microsoft has over 30% market share in smartphones, where they have tons of people working at their offices including developers and localization contractors and what not, and where they have some of the biggest ISVs supplying third party applications.
So I'm frustrated, not harsh.
Windcape said:
Google after over a year of Android still haven't launched anything in northern Europe.
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Google isn't a consumer oriented company, have no infrastructure or processes in most places to sell anything directly to end users, so that's understandable. But Microsoft? Come on, they're just being lazy.
vangrieg said:
..
Google isn't a consumer oriented company, have no infrastructure or processes in most places to sell anything directly to end users, so that's understandable. But Microsoft? Come on, they're just being lazy.
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But it is still very successful.
Which makes Microsoft think.....and rethink its new product roll-out.
Could their not be other issues like Licensing and other laws that might make it difficult to get everything in order before a mass release is done? Just because you have access to similar products now doesn't mean it is easy to get new products to you when Laws/Procedure get in the way.
IM0001 said:
Could their not be other issues like Licensing and other laws that might make it difficult to get everything in order before a mass release is done?
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That is precisely the problem. It's the same reason that developers have to be in one of 30 or so countries because Microsoft can't pay them if they're outside of those.
Wow, none of the Nordic countries.
nizzon said:
Wow, none of the Nordic countries.
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Probably copyright issues. That and languages that aren't spoken by a large amount of people comparatively.
RustyGrom said:
Probably copyright issues. That and languages that aren't spoken by a large amount of people comparatively.
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All the Nordic countries speak/read/write English almost as well as their native language, so it's not a localization issue.
Legal issues is more likely the problem -- Specially when it comes to Zune, more than anything else.
But it's still disappointing, as Microsoft got large local divisions in the Nordic countries, specially Denmark (Microsoft Dynamics is developed here), so one would think they could be better than Google in this.
What I don't understand, is that Apple got both iTunes for Apps and Music available in all the European countries, so why would Microsoft be limited here with Zune?
However, it could also just be that Microsoft isn't pushing it to all countries due to simple logical issues -- there simply ain't enough phones. Nokia had same issue with the N900, which also were limited to the major countries + Finland (Nokia resides in Finland).
But is it common practice to sell stuff in english and not the local language? I really don't know but I would think they would localize it.
Zune has been interesting. Microsoft really hasn't bothered to sell it anywhere but the US. I suppose it's more of a cost/benefit thing. They just didn't care enough to take it abroad. They started that when they brought it to Xbox 360 and now they're going further with WP7.
But yea, it's going to be hard enough on them and their partners to do an effective launch in 17 countries as it is. And they're supposedly going to make their way to the Netherlands before the end of the year so that may just be it as well. Or maybe they couldn't get all the legal issues straightened out in time? At any rate, it's no small undertaking.
RustyGrom said:
But is it common practice to sell stuff in english and not the local language? I really don't know but I would think they would localize it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For cutting-edge it's generally accepted.
RustyGrom said:
Zune has been interesting. Microsoft really hasn't bothered to sell it anywhere but the US. I suppose it's more of a cost/benefit thing. They just didn't care enough to take it abroad. They started that when they brought it to Xbox 360 and now they're going further with WP7.
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Yeah, they stated that Zune will be released in all regions WP7 is released in.
RustyGrom said:
At any rate, it's no small undertaking.
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Doesn't make it less annoying for us
RustyGrom said:
Zune has been interesting. Microsoft really hasn't bothered to sell it anywhere but the US. I suppose it's more of a cost/benefit thing. They just didn't care enough to take it abroad. They started that when they brought it to Xbox 360 and now they're going further with WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, Zune is a very difficult thing because digital rights have to be obtained for every country separately... Plus, Zune has streaming, so you have to get streaming rights as well. Sometimes a label will have an agreement with the artist that won't cover digital rights, so you'll have to negotiate these separately. That's a colossal amount of "manual" work to make an international music store - and then you get videos, too...
As nice as it would be to have Zune Pass though, I can certainly live without it, and I sincerely hope this isn't something that's holding WP7 back - they won't open Zune in many countries till doomsday.
RustyGrom said:
But yea, it's going to be hard enough on them and their partners to do an effective launch in 17 countries as it is. And they're supposedly going to make their way to the Netherlands before the end of the year so that may just be it as well. Or maybe they couldn't get all the legal issues straightened out in time? At any rate, it's no small undertaking.
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Apart from Zune, however, I don't see any big hurdles. Translation isn't a big deal, they have a network of subcontractors that do it, and everything is in those MUI files. Marketplace is available in more than 17 countries even now, so they certainly learned how to deal with tax and legal issues by now, and it's not that difficult really. OEMs know how to sell devices there, have distributors, retail/MO partners etc. etc.
At the end of the day I don't care if they "launch" WP7 in Russia or not, all I care is that they add Russian keyboard. Adding language support is certainly not that big of anl undertaking which would sell a couple million more devices even without official launches and all that fluff.
vangrieg said:
As nice as it would be to have Zune Pass though, I can certainly live without it, and I sincerely hope this isn't something that's holding WP7 back - they won't open Zune in many countries till doomsday.
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As I said, Zune will be launched in all countries they launch WP7 in.
At the end of the day I don't care if they "launch" WP7 in Russia or not, all I care is that they add Russian keyboard. Adding language support is certainly not that big of anl undertaking which would sell a couple million more devices even without official launches and all that fluff.
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It's a software keyboard, can't be that difficult to implement, even for a Cyrillic alphabet.
Windcape said:
As I said, Zune will be launched in all countries they launch WP7 in.
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In that case we'll never ever see WP7 in Russia, even Apple hasn't been able to get deals with labels to launch iTunes store here.
Windcape said:
It's a software keyboard, can't be that difficult to implement, even for a Cyrillic alphabet.
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Click to collapse
Certainly, given that CE supports Cyrillic, Silverlight supports Cyrillic, even Zune supports Cyrillic, and Microsoft has all the dictionaries and stuff. That's a really minor thing to do to get access to a market with some 200 million active mobile phones in use I'd say...
So we wont even get the Phones?!!!!!!!
I got the impression that we could buy the phones but not have access to the Marketplace. I though wrong?
If thats the case, when the F!!! will I be able to buy it in Sweden? Next summer?
This is ****ing uppsetting.
nizzon said:
So we wont even get the Phones?
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Well, you don't need a phone to be officially available in your country to buy it, you can just buy it on the internet from wherever you like. You may not get official warranty, it won't be subsidised etc., but you can get it if you want.
Lack of official status isn't a problem with WM because you can install any keyboard you want and you can sideload applications. This isn't a problem with the iPhone because it supports tons of languages regardless of where you buy it. In the case of WP7, text autocorrection won't work, you might not get the characters you need in the software keyboard, and you won't be able to install applications, so simply importing it will be pretty much useless.
nizzon said:
So we wont even get the Phones?!!!!!!!
I got the impression that we could buy the phones but not have access to the Marketplace. I though wrong?
If thats the case, when the F!!! will I be able to buy it in Sweden? Next summer?
This is ****ing uppsetting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Countries like the Netherlands have been told to get it around Christmas - so most likely the Nordic countries will get it too...
Don't be too upset, there will be announcements soon.
vangrieg said:
Well, you don't need a phone to be officially available in your country to buy it, you can just buy it on the internet from wherever you like. You may not get official warranty, it won't be subsidised etc., but you can get it if you want.
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Not in my case, I will get it from the company I work for and we have certain policys to follow.
Clipboard:
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms589129(v=VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.uielement.mouserightbuttondown(VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.controls.primitives.popup(v=VS.95).aspx
See? All supported in Silverlight 4. Once the phone runs Silverlight 4, it'll support these.
There, done, now you can shut up and stop complaining about it missing. Thank you.
Why stop complaining? It's still missing. What about you shutting up until they finally add it?
Windcape said:
Clipboard:
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms589129(v=VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.uielement.mouserightbuttondown(VS.95).aspx
- http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/system.windows.controls.primitives.popup(v=VS.95).aspx
See? All supported in Silverlight 4. Once the phone runs Silverlight 4, it'll support these.
There, done, now you can shut up and stop complaining about it missing. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who's to say it'll run Silverlight 4?
darkmurder said:
Who's to say it'll run Silverlight 4?
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Click to collapse
Microsoft?
When? 2-3 years or later...
Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
does it support c&p now? no, well untill(if) they add those features, I will complain.
RustyGrom said:
Microsoft?
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does they say when? seriously I don't want to wait few years untill ms add this.
We can complain here as much as we want.
Our right as customers.
I will never agree to beeing limited yet forced to acknowledge this as having
more possibilities.
RustyGrom said:
Microsoft?
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Got a quote thats from their mouth saying itll get Silverlight 4? Cheers mate!
They will add Silverlight 4. Don't know where I heard them say that, but they did.
Nevertheless, copy&paste isn't there now and who knows how long it will take them to add it?
darkmurder said:
Got a quote thats from their mouth saying itll get Silverlight 4? Cheers mate!
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Pretty sure they said it at MIX. I'm not going to dig through hours of video to find it though. And jeeze, you act like it's some sort of crazy idea. It's already running Silverlight 3+. Silverlight 4 was just finished recently. They don't have time to include it before launch.
It's rather illogical to say a phone based on Silverlight, wouldn't be upgraded to the latest version of Silverlight eventually.
And yes, SL4 was released 2 months after the WP7 preview
And it is silly to think that phone based only on silverlight won't support silverlight in Internet Explorer. Oh, wait
Copy and Paste took only 3 major versions of iPhone OS upgrades to be implemented. Why in 2010 I need to go back in time and live without C&P, while iPhone, Android and even Windows Mobile have it.
You know the Android implementation of copy&paste is terrible broken right? But feel free to get a Android, I'm sure the "no paid apps in Europe" makes it a GREAT alternative.
It never ceases to amaze me that people keep focus on the smallest of small issues, instead of the actual problems. I guess the truth is people are just annoyed about the alternatives being so crappy, that they have to complain about something to justify not buying the phone at first possible option.
RustyGrom said:
Pretty sure they said it at MIX. I'm not going to dig through hours of video to find it though. And jeeze, you act like it's some sort of crazy idea. It's already running Silverlight 3+. Silverlight 4 was just finished recently. They don't have time to include it before launch.
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Click to collapse
Ok thats all I wanted to hear, sorry if I came across as prudent I just don't want to get my hopes up then be disappointed later on
Windcape said:
You know the Android implementation of copy&paste is terrible broken right? But feel free to get a Android, I'm sure the "no paid apps in Europe" makes it a GREAT alternative.
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Click to collapse
Android is Google's first foray into the OS business. Microsoft has been around for decades. Windows 3.1 had c&p, Microsoft 1.0 had it (remember this? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239#docid=-2992183880068262304) heck, even my old Commodore 64 running GEOS had it. So yes! I am a bit surprised to see such a basic feature missing in the latest Microsoft OS.
btw WP7 marketplace will only be for 17 countries and no sideloading alternative. If you could sideload, a developer can sell you the app from his website or on an alternative such as slideme
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_.../07/13/windows-phone-7-getting-connected.aspx
17 countries at launch, and no-sideloading is really good for developers who want to write applications for a living. It ensures a good and uniform distribution center for applications.
And as I said with this topic, copy&paste is already made. It's just not supported yet, because the Silverlight 4 implementation was first finished in April.
Windcape said:
17 countries at launch, and no-sideloading is really good for developers who want to write applications for a living. It ensures a good and uniform distribution center for applications.
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Click to collapse
Gameloft can actually sell their Android games to people living in your country since they can sell from their website. They won't have to worry about app approval restrictions, paying a share of their profits to anyone, or the race to the bottom where everything ends up selling for under $1.
ari-free said:
Gameloft can actually sell their Android games to people living in your country since they can sell from their website. They won't have to worry about app approval restrictions, paying a share of their profits to anyone, or the race to the bottom where everything ends up selling for under $1.
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And have to do their own marketing, setup a payment site and distribution channel, and deal with piracy!
And they can't sell apps directly on the phone, but have to guide users to a often long and complicated website url, and a site that's probably not even optimized for mobile phones.
You don't see the big issues here? Distribution and marketing is much much bigger issues than anything else.
Its not the same,
for instance if you send me an email with a coupon code in it, and now I want to paste that on the website of the specified vendor, I cant do it. Outlook doesn't support copy, and IE doesn't support paste.
Oh no!! i am compelled to either remember an 8 digit alpha numeric code (or write it down, sounds pretty primitive to me). What if it was an mailing address on a website that you wanted to email a friend - that's even worse.
I see no reason to stop complaining yet.
Windcape said:
17 countries at launch, and no-sideloading is really good for developers who want to write applications for a living. It ensures a good and uniform distribution center for applications.
And as I said with this topic, copy&paste is already made. It's just not supported yet, because the Silverlight 4 implementation was first finished in April.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have a complaint about this too. The phone 'phones home' to check if the application is valid. As a developer this is awesome, but as a phone user, I am worried about my data package.
For instance if I install a world clock app, as a result every time i check launch the app to check the time in Denmark, I use bandwidth.
In the states this might not be a problem, but in other countries, data can be expensive.
I hope the implementation of phoning home is elegant, and not burdonsome
So one of Microsoft's big features for WP7 over WM is that OS updates can be sent out directly by MS to all models, eliminating the previous delays from device manufacturers and operators. The great benefit here is not only for all users getting access to all new OS features, but a really important aspect is limiting fragmentation of the platform for developers. I.e. Developers don't need the huge hassle of trying to support all types of hardware and OS to get the highest number of users for their app. This is what killed Windows Mobile, and ultimately is going to kill Android if you read the story about Angry Birds.
So how about a vote? Do you think that Microsoft will hold up to the promise that they will release the OS updates to all WP7 hardware at the same time?
Will they? Who knows. But if they don't they will have effectively abandoned the smartphone market permanently because the number of people left who would believe a word they say about anything wouldn't be enough to sustain a small tech company. I can't imagine Microsoft is that stupid but they did abandon it once already.
markgamber said:
Will they? Who knows. But if they don't they will have effectively abandoned the smartphone market permanently because the number of people left who would believe a word they say about anything wouldn't be enough to sustain a small tech company. I can't imagine Microsoft is that stupid but they did abandon it once already.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wasn't once, Sidekick anyone?
I think that they will update all the devices at the same time and I think that all of the new WP7 devices have a good amount of sales and so they should update all of them.
I don't think you will see updates all at the same time, i think you will see them based upon carriers and headsets but "Around" the same time. I don't think MS would want to push an update all at once unless its just a core update and doesn't impact carrier requirements or device specific issues.
blahism said:
I don't think you will see updates all at the same time, i think you will see them based upon carriers and headsets but "Around" the same time. I don't think MS would want to push an update all at once unless its just a core update and doesn't impact carrier requirements or device specific issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you raised 2 interesting points there. Say there is a device specific issue, does the manufacturer submit that to MS for inclusion in an update to that particular device? What if they don't bother? What if MS make a new feature in the OS that requires a new driver from the device manufacturer? If they don't bother then its deadlock, and in that case this situation is no better than with Windows Mobile of leaving all updates to the manufacturer. Personally I think MS are in big trouble here if they haven't thought this through completely...
indiekiduk said:
I think you raised 2 interesting points there. Say there is a device specific issue, does the manufacturer submit that to MS for inclusion in an update to that particular device? What if they don't bother? What if MS make a new feature in the OS that requires a new driver from the device manufacturer? If they don't bother then its deadlock, and in that case this situation is no better than with Windows Mobile of leaving all updates to the manufacturer. Personally I think MS are in big trouble here if they haven't thought this through completely...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If an OEM wants to push a device-specific update, they submit it to Microsoft and Microsoft will push it out after approval (the carrier may need to approve as well). Microsoft, of course, could potentially fix this themselves if the OEM refuses to fix it but I can't imagine that happening.
Microsoft has developed a vast majority of the drivers. Again, I just can't see Microsoft making a new feature that...
1. Relies on a driver and/or...
2. The driver isn't written by MS
They've thought this through pretty well. Some more explanation of the timing and carrier approval can be found here.
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010...-and-carriers-ability-to-block-those-updates/
If you consider how HTC does it, they add their custom features in an app. HTC has wanted to incorporate Sense into their WP7 offerings. But MS has not allowed it. Instead they compensate by adding Sense-like features to the HTC Hub. I believe this is the extent of any customization among various handset makers.
RustyGrom said:
They've thought this through pretty well. Some more explanation of the timing and carrier approval can be found here.
http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010...-and-carriers-ability-to-block-those-updates/
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Click to collapse
So Paul Thurrott says that (to prevent fragmentation) if an operator/handset manufacturer blocks their devices from an OS update then they can't blog the next one and it's automatically sent out. That sounds absolutely mental!
indiekiduk said:
So Paul Thurrott says that (to prevent fragmentation) if an operator/handset manufacturer blocks their devices from an OS update then they can't blog the next one and it's automatically sent out. That sounds absolutely mental!
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Click to collapse
I agree that it's definitely a bit strange. But let's just see how this works out in practice. In theory Android can get updates super fast and in theory the carriers can block iPhone updates. Microsoft is still controlling the process, not the OEMs or carriers. The carriers understandably don't want to run untested code on their networks. Microsoft is giving them the option to delay/block. If they abuse it, Microsoft could just give them the middle finger and release them directly. It sounds like the carriers are going to play ball. The ones that don't will certainly get a bad rap and could lose customers over it.
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
adesonic said:
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
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Click to collapse
Ugh no, Google phones get the update first and fast. As of right now Google has only one phone.
Its all the other Android phones that have this problem with OEMs, and carriers.
WP7 will be just like the Nexus One. All WP7 devices will get updated regardless of carriers. If your carrier wont allow the OTA update then just connect to Zune.
I also think the updates will be regional.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
adesonic said:
We certainly do not want the mess that is the Android update process, with Google, the Carriers and the OEM's all having a say in when updates go out!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's the kind of crap that killed WinMo for me. Three times with three different phones I ran into the problem of video "tearing". Three times I emailed Microsoft support, HTC support and AT&T support about the problem and three times they were all content to point fingers at each other. Microsoft says it was a problem with HTC's drivers. HTC says it was a problem with the carrier not approving whatever updates and AT&T says if you want to solve the problem buy this new phone. And I did that twice to find the latest and greatest had the same problem, no one actually did anything. What was worse was finding updates on HTC's site that I couldn't apply to my phone because they were tied to particular carriers and my carrier, of course, wasn't one of them. The worst kind of planned obsolescence. That was when I said the hell with WinMo and bought an iPhone and all that garbage went away. When it had a problem, I went to Apple. Period. Updates came from Apple. Period. And they've only recently stopped updating the original iPhone after how long? Apple cut out the carrier for a reason and has set the bar that Microsoft should at least have the decency to meet if not exceed if they expect to be taken seriously.
vetvito said:
Ugh no, Google phones get the update first and fast. As of right now Google has only one phone.
Its all the other Android phones that have this problem with OEMs, and carriers.
WP7 will be just like the Nexus One. All WP7 devices will get updated regardless of carriers. If your carrier wont allow the OTA update then just connect to Zune.
I also think the updates will be regional.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree things were safer for users with the Nexus one, but they've stopped selling it now for whatever reason. I'd love to find out why they decided to do that because that model was a major advantage. All new Android users are going to hit this issue which is what killed WinMo as stated by markgamber.
Also you can't really say what will happen with WP7 because it remains to be seen what will actually happen when its update time. Actually it won't be until the 2nd update we'll find out if people with the old models are screwed over. It'll actually be less of a big deal if Microsoft take 1 year between OS updates because most users will want new hardware anyway, however it could still be a major disaster if manufacturers blame MS for pushing out an untested OS upgrade that breaks thousands of phones. I expect there will be some exemption like hardware of over 2 years old does not get upgrades from MS, that would get them off the hook slightly.
I agree that Apple is great for the consumer, if there is any problem Apple fix it, they control the whole experience, anything you buy on the app store will work on hardware up to 2 years old. However for developers its not such a great picture. The app store just breaks even, Apple aren't interested in app developers being successful, they only built the app store because jailbreaks were doing it anyway, previously they only planned for javascript web apps, and if anyone tries to do anything innovative outside the restrictions of the SDK their app gets banned and they get threatened their developer account will be cancelled. However there was a some money to be made by some lucky people, and everyone else made at least more than building windows mobile apps in the old days. Anyway Apple make all their money from the hardware they don't need to make money from some 3rd party dev making a good app. Google also don't care about developers, the market place is terrible and its widely known that devs with apps on both platforms get like 0.3% of their sales on Android. But as with Apple, Google don't care about the developers either. With Android, Google attract phone manufacturers by offering an OS for free, which they used to need to pay MS $30 per license or whatever. And by having tons of phones out there, Google make a ton of cash from the ads in the built in apps google search, and google maps. They have no need to support developers, and if the platform becomes fragmented they don't care because as long as they sell more phones they make more money.
It remains to be seen what the point of the WP7 marketplace is to MS. My friend has the #1 shooter app and sells 1 a day so MS will be running the store at a loss. And if they need to give WP7 away for free to compete with Android for traction there really is no hope.
You guys bring up some really great points. I am starting to think that the reason Apple stayed with At&t had something to do with updates.
To hopefully add on to this great discussion I think that the US carrier market is in for a real change soon. Every day I see prices coming down and carriers having more and more of the same features. Once carriers are handing out the exact same features it might not be that big of a deal to have MS release all updates. Other countries are way more competitive with their carrier choices and I think US will have to evolve because users demand it.
bowpay said:
You guys bring up some really great points. I am starting to think that the reason Apple stayed with At&t had something to do with updates.
To hopefully add on to this great discussion I think that the US carrier market is in for a real change soon. Every day I see prices coming down and carriers having more and more of the same features. Once carriers are handing out the exact same features it might not be that big of a deal to have MS release all updates. Other countries are way more competitive with their carrier choices and I think US will have to evolve because users demand it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just a bit of a correction:
iPhone stayed with AT&T on the domestic market, it is deployed across various providers on the international market.
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
Regardless of how it is made available I have heard that an update including copy /paste will be ready end Jan...
robart76 said:
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point.
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robart76 said:
To be honest I'm very curious about the update process. It's not true that all WP7 devices have got the same features. At the moment I've got HTC Trophy on Vodafone and HTC HD7 on O2. The same system but different search providers in IE, different regional keyboards available, different system languages, different settings for adding email accounts etc.. So it seems like every phone has carrier specific rom and I believe carriers would like to keep it that way. It looks like current roms are miles away from one unified rom as we see on iPhone.
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Click to collapse
The only thing that matters is that a given program runs on all WP7 phones equally. That's where Apple currently excels and why Android has been called "fragmented". What they look like and what programs are included with a given phone on a given carrier don't matter.
Seriously, Microsoft has put more focus on developing on their competitors platforms than their own OS.
Yes Mango looks nice, but it's really bunch of features that plays catch-up not catch-on.
Android has all the apps I want, has more support and most important of all has Google search not this Bing crap.
ManicDVLN said:
Seriously, Microsoft has put more focus on developing on their competitors platforms than their own OS.
Yes Mango looks nice, but it's really bunch of features that plays catch-up not catch-on.
Android has all the apps I want, has more support and most important of all has Google search not this Bing crap.
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Click to collapse
Bye bye then.
Good luck on the other side mate.
Don't you have a blog, facebook account or something to post this on? Because nobody here cares.
ManicDVLN said:
Seriously, Microsoft has put more focus on developing on their competitors platforms than their own OS.
Yes Mango looks nice, but it's really bunch of features that plays catch-up not catch-on.
Android has all the apps I want, has more support and most important of all has Google search not this Bing crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you may want to wait another month or so. nexus s is outdated compared to current (and very soon to be) released phones with better cameras, better cpus, etc
whatever you choose, make sure it doesn't have a poor signal antena like the iphone was suffering.
good luck !
Bye.
Surely this thread has run it's course
ohgood said:
you may want to wait another month or so. nexus s is outdated compared to current (and very soon to be) released phones with better cameras, better cpus, etc
whatever you choose, make sure it doesn't have a poor signal antena like the iphone was suffering.
good luck !
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the advice, but I rather have the Nexus S, unless there are rumors of another Google phone coming out soon.
The reason is I don't want the long delays from carriers blocking OS updates, I rather have fully supported phone directly from Google with no third party crapware layering on top.
I have a feeling Nexus S will still outperform all those dual core android phones simply on the basis of optimization from Google.
Even if there are new better phones coming out, I wouldn't expect any of them hitting Canada soon. It takes at least 4-6 months to even get a launch date.
Bye.
Still I would like to mention, the NS doesn't support 850 band, if you don't want to switch carrier.
amtrakcn said:
Bye.
Still I would like to mention, the NS doesn't support 850 band, if you don't want to switch carrier.
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Wrong - http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/07/nexus-s-with-atandt-bands-available-in-white-for-600-headed-to-f/
lqaddict said:
Wrong - http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/07/nexus-s-with-atandt-bands-available-in-white-for-600-headed-to-f/
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I know there is a version coming to AT&T, but right now it's not on sale yet.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/null/Go...050004.c?id=pcmcat224600050004&ref=141&loc=01
amtrakcn said:
I know there is a version coming to AT&T, but right now it's not on sale yet.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/null/Go...050004.c?id=pcmcat224600050004&ref=141&loc=01
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Click to collapse
Yes, it is. It costs $600, but it's white and available online.
amtrakcn said:
I know there is a version coming to AT&T, but right now it's not on sale yet.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/null/Go...050004.c?id=pcmcat224600050004&ref=141&loc=01
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Click to collapse
People reporting receiving it as of yesterday.
ManicDVLN said:
Yes Mango looks nice, but it's really bunch of features that plays catch-up not catch-on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The funny part of this thread is that we don't actually know many of the additional features coming in Mango. We know application developer facing features, not user facing features.
Have fun though.
ManicDVLN said:
Seriously, Microsoft has put more focus on developing on their competitors platforms than their own OS.
Yes Mango looks nice, but it's really bunch of features that plays catch-up not catch-on.
Android has all the apps I want, has more support and most important of all has Google search not this Bing crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you expect? WP is only version 1. iPhone and Android were playing catch-up when they were first released too.
You shouldn't have gotten a WP if you didn't want to wait for it to be updated.
You'll be back
Funnily enough, updates take longer on average to hit Android phones than WP7 phones, measured from official announcement to actually hitting 50% or more devices.
ManicDVLN said:
Thanks for the advice, but I rather have the Nexus S, unless there are rumors of another Google phone coming out soon.
The reason is I don't want the long delays from carriers blocking OS updates, I rather have fully supported phone directly from Google with no third party crapware layering on top.
I have a feeling Nexus S will still outperform all those dual core android phones simply on the basis of optimization from Google.
Even if there are new better phones coming out, I wouldn't expect any of them hitting Canada soon. It takes at least 4-6 months to even get a launch date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HMMM, the next google phone is out. Its called the LG G2X!!!
nrfitchett4 said:
HMMM, the next google phone is out. Its called the LG G2X!!!
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Click to collapse
Yep. And the review on The Register says it lags. Which is quite an achievement for a dual-core machine.
ManicDVLN said:
Thanks for the advice, but I rather have the Nexus S, unless there are rumors of another Google phone coming out soon.
The reason is I don't want the long delays from carriers blocking OS updates, I rather have fully supported phone directly from Google with no third party crapware layering on top.
I have a feeling Nexus S will still outperform all those dual core android phones simply on the basis of optimization from Google.
Even if there are new better phones coming out, I wouldn't expect any of them hitting Canada soon. It takes at least 4-6 months to even get a launch date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't seem to outperform anything really.
Jim Coleman said:
Yep. And the review on The Register says it lags. Which is quite an achievement for a dual-core machine.
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Click to collapse
If it does it's really a bummer. Looks like dual core stuff is not really optimized yet.
I honestly think this technology will be really working well next year after the work which has to be done about it.
I have an HD2 and before Android was fully ported over there were tons of Windows Mobile 6.5 ROMS to choose from. I am planning on selling my HD2 and possibly getting a HD7 but first wanted to get some input from you all. Right now I am running WP7 on my HD2 but really want to get an actual phone that runs WP7. So before I jump in to the WP7 scene I was wondering where do you all see the WP7 development in the short future? Mainly with custom ROMS and apps. Would you say it will probably follow the same path as 6.5 because as of now it looks pretty bad? Thanks guys!
When they make it possible to do real development/testing without shelling out $99/yr, I'll look into it.
Microsoft's development tools are second to none, but the API situation is just unacceptable right now. Marketplace is full of redundant crap, and that largely because the base platform is not done yet.
It really depends on what you want to develop, though...
N8ter said:
When they make it possible to do real development/testing without shelling out $99/yr, I'll look into it.
Microsoft's development tools are second to none, but the API situation is just unacceptable right now. Marketplace is full of redundant crap, and that largely because the base platform is not done yet.
It really depends on what you want to develop, though...
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Click to collapse
Mango development kits are going out to developers next month. You do know that, right?
Jim Coleman said:
Mango development kits are going out to developers next month. You do know that, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fully aware, and while that helps develop some apps, it won't help users get them on their phones because they won't have Mango for another ~month.
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
Also, next month != now Especially for a bunch of APIs that shouldn't have been missing to begin with, Lol.
The OP asked about the future, so clearly, next month is part of the near future, right? You just need to bring your pessimistic venom in here too, huh.
To the OP, as far as ROMs go, WP7 wasn't designed with that in mind, and to be honest, you really don't need custom ROMs, as they really wouldn't add anything. The UI, as I'm sure even people like N8ter would agree, is second to none in terms of efficiency, and with time, the features will greatly increase (like the Mango live tiles, the concept of Nokia 3D tiles). Where in WM6.5 we NEEDED to flash to make the phone usable, we don't need that with WP7.
As for apps, as of now, the apps are pushing the allowed apis to their limits for the most part. Microsoft was pretty shelled with their apis on the initial release, and that was due to missing functionality. With the Mango api, you'll see a slew of apps hit the marketplace, big named apps such as Skype to be more specific as the platform will flash much more impressive features. In the next month and a half to two months we'll get an idea as to what ideas will start forming with these new apis, but look for the releases to be huge.
Games are about to take off in an even bigger way too, with big names like Hydro Thunder and Angry Birds starting to come out, and I see more coming with time, and available features.
With that being said, I suggest you try the phone out for yourself, as it isn't for everybody. If you're somebody who insists on having a registry editor just *because* you feel the need to look at one, then this isn't for you. Or if you feel you need full device control for absolutely no reason, this isn't for you. But if you enjoy a phone that just works, and does what it's currently capable of extremely well, then you've got a winner.
N8ter said:
I'm fully aware, and while that helps develop some apps, it won't help users get them on their phones because they won't have Mango for another ~month.
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
Also, next month != now Especially for a bunch of APIs that shouldn't have been missing to begin with, Lol.
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Click to collapse
dreamspark...
Thanks guys for the info! Like I said, I am running WP7 on my HD2 right now because the whole Android hype wore out on me. I am loving it right now but as updates are getting harder and taking longer to port over I just see it easier to get an actual WP7 phone. This is exactly what I wanted to hear since I was traumatized with the lack WM 6.5 apps, especially good ones.
So from what I read it looks like in the next couple of weeks and months WP7 is definitely going to take off. So long Android!!
Wp7 is pretty stable for everyday use. Its just missing some features, but to a normal everyday usage you won't miss them. Even with the nodo update I still don't use copy and paste. But if you're into total control and customization you should stick with an Android phone.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I don't think we need custom roms.
All they did was speed up the system etc. They were needed on WM because it sucked and on Android to remove bloatware, custom firmwares, speed it up etc.
WP7 doesn't need Speeding Up and there's no Bloatware or anything like that to remove. I don't see what a custom rom would achieve.
i think there is no realy need for curstom roms, too. There is a need for some missing features which will come and i dont think they can be done on homebrew way.
App situation at the moment is a bit limited and with mango this will get much better (for example -> photosynth), so i think, the real app "explosion" at wp7 market comes with mango (and nokia market start)
My opinion
domineus said:
dreamspark...
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Click to collapse
I'm not a college student. Dreamspark doesn't exist to me.
N8ter said:
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
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Click to collapse
Better get used to it because this won't change. Apple has been doing this with great success so I don't see this going away.
DaFlake said:
Better get used to it because this won't change. Apple has been doing this with great success so I don't see this going away.
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I don't expect it to go away. I just code for Android instead.