Develop Bugs

Marketplace will be the only way to get apps on Windows Phone 7 Series?

I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed

Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.

What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....

RAMMANN said:
What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....
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You will still be able to load apps on to the device from Visual Studios. It will just require giving out the source to do it. So hacks and such that people don't want to go through marketplace will be able to distribute there code as long as they don't care that everyone will beable to see the source.

Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
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Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.

I think you just have to accept that WP7 never will be "hacker friendly". I'm starting to wonder if there would have been less whining over the WP7 platform if they'd branded it something completely different, like "Splonge" or "Zaarkoft", since its got virtually nothing to do with WP6.5. The community's expectations would maybe been more realistic.
What's sad is of course that the 6.5 series probably won't be developed further and few or no new devices with better hardware will come with 6.5 (or 6.6 or whatver), but I guess there always is ... Android? Or Openmoko or whatever it's called.

Shasarak said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.
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I like this, hopefully we can get ahold of it and exploit it to it's fullest potential.

Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumbed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Windows customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers.

Nilzor said:
By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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As I see the Marketplace evolving I must state I've never seen so many new and ugly $1-apps. I'd better pay $20 for a well-designed with great UI and functionality or donate something to a as great freeware app than sponsor those marketplace whores that even don't offer a trial.

This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.

Nilzor said:
Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
How about wanting to sideload applications MS doesn't want to compete with or otherwise decides is unsuitable for my delicate sensibilities? How about wanting to sideload content made by indies that can't afford MS's regulatory scheme? How about wanting to sideload content so I can get it direct from my friendly neighborhood developer, with all the incumbent benefits and freedoms thereof instead of submitting myself to the whims of a markplace's DRM mechanisms?
Of course, I'm not exactly blown away by the news. Anyone with half a brain knew once the Zunies were in charge of WinMo this was the inevitable result.

brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
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Students can get the fee waived with dreamspark. All you have to do is verify with your school e-mail. I've already done it.

ladieslova said:
I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we have another way...
quote:
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.

brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
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Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...

chaoscentral said:
Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...
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any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?

fortunz said:
I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
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Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.

havox22 said:
any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?
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Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)

TehPenguin said:
Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)
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thanks to bad im in community college, but my girl goes to sdsu so maybe i can get it in her name
nvm my school is on the list

Nilzor said:
Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.
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I agree, that's a valid point. I don't even think we were in the dark from the first day of WP7s' introduction, before this little confirmation. The moment they sent their hipster zunies out to explain how great it was, at least half of us knew they were using Apple's playbook.
I began to come to terms with migrating to android on day 1, and the stench of betrayal has mostly passed on.

Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
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There Will be alternate ways to load apps onto the device, gotten from an updated version of the same article.

Bad News for Skype Users and WP7

Did a search and couldn't find anything but it appears that when the Guys at Skype decided to discontinue Skype for Windows Mobile they also decided that they wouldn't be developing for WP7 any time soon.
David Flynn at apcmag.com said:
Citing a second-rate “user experience” compared to the iPhone and Android, Skype admits it has no immediate plans to release an app for Windows Phone 7.
Skype is working full steam ahead on an app for the iPad and the next-gen iPhone, but users of Windows Phone 7 will have to take a number and wait… and wait… and wait.
Skype’s Asia Pacific Vice-President Dan Neary says that Microsoft’s forthcoming smartphone OS is not a priority when it comes to mobile platforms.
“We try and focus not only where the need is but where the best experience is, and we feel that the best areas for us to develop are on the operating systems that we currently support – iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry and now Android” Neary told APC during a press briefing in Sydney today. “We simply feel that those operating systems (have) a much better user experience”.
Neary said that while a Skype app for Windows Phone 7 “is on the roadmap, the question is how quickly we’re going to get to it. We feel that we are best best deployed on other operating systems (for now) and we’ll see how the space evolves.”
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article here

screw skype then, does windows mobile messenger support voice chat?

C'mon now
The main part of this article was about Skype abandoning development for the current WinMobile (6.5). They were talking about which platforms were currently supported. Why would they be talking about an app for an OS that hasn't been released yet.

lordcanti86 said:
The main part of this article was about Skype abandoning development for the current WinMobile (6.5). They were talking about which platforms were currently supported. Why would they be talking about an app for an OS that hasn't been released yet.
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err...I interpreted it differently...to me it sounds like they're not going to bother for a while.
Neary said that while a Skype app for Windows Phone 7 “is on the roadmap, the question is how quickly we’re going to get to it. We feel that we are best best deployed on other operating systems (for now) and we’ll see how the space evolves.”
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coupled with
Skype’s Asia Pacific Vice-President Dan Neary says that Microsoft’s forthcoming smartphone OS is not a priority when it comes to mobile platforms.
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..sound to me like they'll wait to see how well the platform takes off before considering beginning development.

welki1979 said:
err...I interpreted it differently...to me it sounds like they're not going to bother for a while.
coupled with
..sound to me like they'll wait to see how well the platform takes off before considering beginning development.
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Which is fine. Either wp7 will be successful and they will port it over ~3 months after release. Or wp7 will fail and it wouldn't matter either way if skype existed or not.
As an aside, anyone came across any information about kin sales?

gom99 said:
As an aside, anyone came across any information about kin sales?
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Actually yes, but its 3rd party info. I have a friend at that Carphone place... they've had a briefing on the Kin range and are expecting units to be released to them late july apparently.
I tried to get some sort of confirmation of this but as yet all I've managed to find out came from one of the shop staff who made a comment about them being late or something. (not really sure it was mumbled quietly as he walked off)
Suprisingly enough though there is nothing on the GSM Arena site despite the fact that the HTC Mondrian is listed there (a WP7 phone).

gom99 said:
Which is fine. Either wp7 will be successful and they will port it over ~3 months after release. Or wp7 will fail and it wouldn't matter either way if skype existed or not.
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And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.

shaundalglish said:
And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.
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The problem is that trying to maintain backwards compatibility with all those apps that were designed for stylus input and resistive touch screens was what allowed the competition to get so far ahead in the first place. The only thing they could have done was to start over because that forces developers to redevelop apps that are designed for finger input, compactive touch screens, and work better with the new OS.

shaundalglish said:
And if every developer thinks like this, there will be zero apps for WP7 when it launches --> nobody will buy it, cause it has no apps --> nobody will make apps for it, cause it has no users --> ...
And by the way, Skype is not alone. So far I have not seen one developer, who thinks the tools offered are enough to make good applications (that means, stuff that does a little more than farts).
Silverlight etc. is fine and all, but now is not the right time for Microsoft to start over like this, hecause the competition is too far ahead. They should improve upon what they have, and make a slow transition to the new tools etc. when they can afford it.
But now it's too late anyway, they already dumped everything they had.
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Maybe you should look at the videos from MWC and MIX 2010, then you'll see that there are some quite amazing apps in development. They demonstrated a Netflix, an Associated Press, a Seesmic, a Shazam and MLS app and a bunch of games. You can expect apps from EA Mobile, Fandango, Pandora, Foursquare, IMDB, Namco, PopCap Games, Photobucket and SPB Software just to name a few (that list is a bit longer than that) and because the developer tools are already available I expect many many more apps than that.

"Amazing"? lol yeah if bling bling is all you want...

shaundalglish said:
"Amazing"? lol yeah if bling bling is all you want...
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So Netflix is bling bling? Or a game like The Harvester is also just bling bling? What about Shazam?

Oh come on... Shazam is always the first app that gets ported to any new OS, because there's nothing complicated about it. Games are of course just bling bling. And 96% of the world's population couldn't care less about Netflix.
I just prefer functionality, that's all. WP7 is not going to deliver this.

shaundalglish said:
I just prefer functionality, that's all. WP7 is not going to deliver this.
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You mean to say that you believe it's not going to deliver the functionality that you deem to be important. It's still going to be a great communication, social networking, maps/navigation, multimedia and gaming platform and that's what most people want from their smartphones these days. I agree with you that WP7 is missing quite a bit of features, but I don't think those missing features are deal breakers for the average consumer.

No it's not going to deliver a lot of functionality at all, regardless of which features I personally use.

shaundalglish said:
No it's not going to deliver a lot of functionality at all, regardless of which features I personally use.
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what features are those?
Also calling something a fart app or bling bling is misleading. The majority of apps people actually consume fall into that category.
Not that I disagree with what you're trying to say but many of the advanced apps of windows mobile are just hacks to correct the lacking default user experience of wm. I do think you're being too hardlined though.
but I definitely don't like some decisions they're making with some of the current advanced features. eg: file system, data storage, side loading.

The problems as I see it is that the APIs is to poor at the moment.
No sockets support -> Some apps will have serious problems, e.g. Skype.
No way to access Bluetooth.
Very limited access to media.
This are the main things that make me doubt on this platform. I'm fine with it being locked down, just not too much.

Should we really be bothered by such trivial issue?There are better alternative apps like Fring and Nimbuzz that perfectly connects to the skype node,allowing you to still skype and be skyped.

blackrider said:
Should we really be bothered by such trivial issue?There are better alternative apps like Fring and Nimbuzz that perfectly connects to the skype node,allowing you to still skype and be skyped.
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Except Fring won't be possible in WP7 either. Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol, and implementing it would require ability to manipulate sockets. One could possibly implement an http version of a client that would connect to a central server and then the server would communicate with other Skype users, but that would be difficult, costly and ultimately useless because it would only serve as a temporary workaround until socket support comes to WP7 APIs.

vangrieg said:
Except Fring won't be possible in WP7 either. Skype is a proprietary P2P protocol, and implementing it would require ability to manipulate sockets. One could possibly implement an http version of a client that would connect to a central server and then the server would communicate with other Skype users, but that would be difficult, costly and ultimately useless because it would only serve as a temporary workaround until socket support comes to WP7 APIs.
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Socket support for WP7 will come later but is not in initial release.

havox22 said:
Socket support for WP7 will come later but is not in initial release.
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Hopefully they'll hurry up, since I'm fear that I (and many others) will stand without good/any music support.
I'm a big user of Spotify, a streaming music service, which I'm sure will require Sockets to work, because it's Superior responsiveness is based on a P2P protocol. Before anyone say anything else, the phones won't share the media, but they'll download from desktop clients.
Hopefully they'll release some custom version anyway. Responsiveness won't be a problem on Mobile devices where most people have the "important" stuff in Offline cache anyways.

Windows Phone 7 – Released To Manufacturing

Today is the day that the Windows Phone team has been driving towards, and we’re very excited to say that we’ve reached the biggest milestone for our internal team – the release to manufacturing (RTM) of Windows Phone 7! While the final integration of Windows Phone 7 with our partners’ hardware, software, and networks is underway, the work of our internal engineering team is largely complete.
Windows Phone 7 is the most thoroughly tested mobile platform Microsoft has ever released. We had nearly ten thousand devices running automated tests daily, over a half million hours of active self-hosting use, over three and a half million hours of stress test passes, and eight and a half million hours of fully automated test passes. We’ve had thousands of independent software vendors and early adopters testing our software and giving us great feedback. We are ready.
I last posted on this blog when we reached the Technical Preview milestone, and we’ve received some great feedback since then which we’ve been able to respond to and improve the smart design throughout the OS. For example, folks loved the Facebook integration in the People Hub, but they also wanted ways to filter their contacts so only the Facebook friends they really know will show up in their contact list – we’ve added support for that. We’ve also made it easy to “like” a post right from the People Hub, or quickly post a message to someone’s Facebook wall directly.
This has been one of the most incredible product development efforts I’ve ever been a part of. Today’s milestone is exciting not just because of what we’ll deliver to customers later this year, but how it sets us up for success over the long term in the mobile space… we’re really just getting started.
We reached today’s milestone because of the tremendous efforts of the entire team including our partners, early adopters, and independent software developers providing feedback. I want to send a huge THANK YOU to this extended team– we couldn’t have done it without you!
by Terry Myerson
Windows Phone Blog
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...indows-phone-7-released-to-manufacturing.aspx

To general!
~~Tito~~

They're listening, that's great news by itself.

If they want to get this right they better be listening.

I wonder how long it will take them to move to silverlight 4 so they can get the clipboard support. Also I wonder how long before we'll see ie9 integrated into there as well.

Here's what I want to see:
1. HTML5
2. Silverlight/Flash in browser (I know flash is planned)
3. Copy/Paste
4. 3rd Party Multitasking
5. Thumb Drive Support even if it's restricted access to what's viewable.

Kloc said:
1. HTML5
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I don't understand why people want this so bad recently. I can't think of a single site that even has a html5 version yet alone HTML5 only. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't use it...but it's hardly on my radar of things to care about.

Just because it's the newest standard and it won't be long before sites are implementing it. I've looked at the docs and it has some pretty cool stuff built-in. I'd just like to see MS stay up with the lastest and greatest.

Kloc said:
Just because it's the newest standard and it won't be long before sites are implementing it. I've looked at the docs and it has some pretty cool stuff built-in. I'd just like to see MS stay up with the lastest and greatest.
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I think it'll be a rather long time (5-10 yrs) before anyone major decides to really make a site really dependent on HTML5/CSS3. The reality is it takes a long time for people to migrate to newer technologies ie. a decade later and we're supporting IE6 and XP. I can see using it as an enhancement for people capable of viewing that content. But you still want your site to be designed for non-HTML5 content if you want to appeal to everyone.
From a web development point of view, you're also stepping into a mindfield as browser compatiblity is concerned.

gom99 said:
I think it'll be a rather long time (5-10 yrs) before anyone major decides to really make a site really dependent on HTML5/CSS3. The reality is it takes a long time for people to migrate to newer technologies ie. a decade later and we're supporting IE6 and XP. I can see using it as an enhancement for people capable of viewing that content. But you still want your site to be designed for non-HTML5 content if you want to appeal to everyone.
From a web development point of view, you're also stepping into a mindfield as browser compatiblity is concerned.
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Honestly I don't really care all that much. It's just because the iphone has it

Kloc said:
Honestly I don't really care all that much. It's just because the iphone has it
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lol yea, it's never a good idea to give Jobs something to make a snarky comment at one of his conferences. He's such a whiney brat . I don't think I've seen a single conference where he hasn't had some kind of underhanded remark to make.

I still want to know what the MS excuse de jour is for making WP7 incompatible with existing devices, especially since their site pushes some pricy Windows phones. If this oversight can't be fixed, they ought to give away or discount replacement phones.

piaqt said:
I still want to know what the MS excuse de jour is for making WP7 incompatible with existing devices, especially since their site pushes some pricy Windows phones. If this oversight can't be fixed, they ought to give away or discount replacement phones.
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It's not really an excuse. If you sat down and thought about it you'd come up with the answer. If you made it for the devices today you'd be making it for older hardware and you'd have to limit what your OS could do based on the crop of current windows phones (aside from the hd2 they're pretty slow).
By setting it's requirements MS ensures that they provide a certain baseline experience to their end users. By having a standard for minimum buttons you're making it easy for consumers to pick up any wp7 regardless of what maker and have a consistent experience.
It's not an oversight. I don't see why they need discount replacement phones, this would be a carrier decision anyway...kind of like a cash for klunkers program.

piaqt said:
I still want to know what the MS excuse de jour is for making WP7 incompatible with existing devices, especially since their site pushes some pricy Windows phones. If this oversight can't be fixed, they ought to give away or discount replacement phones.
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It's a fresh start and they really needed it. They decided to make a baseline and all the window's phone out today don't meet the requirements. I think this is a good move by MS. If you can't afford to buy a new phone then just used your 6.5 device until you can. If they had made them all upgradable we would still have the bad fragmentation that Windows Mobile has today. I'm sure there will be cheaper model, heavily subsidizes devices that will hit the market so you'll have your chance.

wwweeeeee.
Singing ....
gimmi gimmi gimmi my phone after midnight, plz wont somebody give me there Win Phone 7 away.
Gimmi gimmi gimmi a 5 inch display, duel core and without a delay" =)))
*gaahh*
...i just got to sing again =)
....and they where singing, by by foul fruit goodbye, calld on Jobs but the call got hanged up lost connection somehow...

definately a good sign for microsoft...as of right now the road seems bright
we shall see though...

HD2?
So do I understand it correctly? Even no windows mobile 7 for the HD2? I'd assume that the HD2 does meet the hardware requirements.

msportel77 said:
So do I understand it correctly? Even no windows mobile 7 for the HD2? I'd assume that the HD2 does meet the hardware requerements.
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Nope the HD2 does not have the right hardware buttons. It's probably the only device that may be possible to get ported to WP7 by us here though.

msportel77 said:
So do I understand it correctly? Even no windows mobile 7 for the HD2? I'd assume that the HD2 does meet the hardware requerements.
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No it doesn't... it has 5 buttons in the front of the device ... not the 3 standart displacement required by MS...

Kloc said:
Here's what I want to see:
1. HTML5
2. Silverlight/Flash in browser (I know flash is planned)
3. Copy/Paste
4. 3rd Party Multitasking
5. Thumb Drive Support even if it's restricted access to what's viewable.
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Click to collapse
I consign all of those things lol.

Tried WP7 for the first time today (University of Surrey)

Today at my University we had a marquee out the front near the main car park talking about Microsoft Graduates and inside they were showing of Microsoft Surface, Kinect and Windows Phone 7.
It wasn't hard to get a glance, especially considering everyone was mostly interested in the Kinect, I had a play with the Windows Phone 7 handset.
To be honest, I was expecting more, I was really disappointed, there is nothing that it can offer except for flashy transitions and pretty colours. Yes its true that applications will be released to improve the phone's functionality but there is definitely a limit to that because of the current API.
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users.
Does anyone know how WP7 handles notifications? Is it similar to iOS? I hope not. Android nailed it with their notification system, I wish Windows Mobile had something similar.
The menu in which you 'upload to facebook', is it limited? Can developers add functionality to this menu, will you ever see 'post on twitter' or anything like that?
On a positive note, WP7 is smooth, looks great and Internet Explorer is a whole new browser.
(Side note: University of Surrey is broadcasting the Microsoft PDC10 live on Thursday this week and one lucky attendee will win a WP7 Handset)

WP7 notifications are kinda a cross between Android and iPhone. The biggest downside to WP7 notifications is that once it goes away, you can't see it in a list or anything.
Re: "WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users." - I don't think Microsoft has any intention on every going after the "hardcore WM5/6 users." If you're expecting WM6 levels of customizability and openness, switch to Android.

If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management

AceofSpades25 said:
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
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lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.

RustyGrom said:
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
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lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously

AceofSpades25 said:
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
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If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.

RustyGrom said:
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
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Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.

Nah it's pretty much awesome
I also used WP7 the first time today - and it's AWESOME!!!
Don't listen to this guy (no offense )
I think everyone here saw the videos of Walkthroughs etc, so I don't know how you can get disappointed by using it.
It's exactly what you saw, just quadrippel times more awesome, cause you actually see it for real and touch it yourself
A Vodafone store had a LG Optimus 7 and I played with it for half an hour.
I just can't wait till the Omnia 7 finally arrives here in Germany. I'll definitly buy that and hopefully be happy with it

No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?

gmatharu12 said:
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
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yes, each application has its own restricted space. The only exception to this rule are images and videos (I think).
I know all your images are kept in one common place, and apps can use a hook they've provided in the api to load images from this place.
Any other app you can think of that would require side loading of files, would not work.

AceofSpades25 said:
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
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Click to collapse
That would encourage both sloppy app development and content piracy.
Are YOU a developer?
A platform that indirectly encourages piracy doesn't get first-class support from the industry. Only exception is Windows Mobile, and only because it is compatible with the DRM in e.g. Zune Pass music.
Looks lile so,e people don't take piracy serious enough. It's a huge problem, amd a few users crying about design decisions aided to combat it in a forum are pretty much worth doing it.
Lime Wire was just shut down by a court. The media industry does not play around, and neither does the law.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

What a HUGE disappointment for a UI
Ok, so panes slide around. SO WHAT? The thing as I have seen it in videos looks like a PIECE OF JUNK. Just look at the picture of mine... How can you compare that or any of our WM6.5 phones on this forum to a BLAH screen that has three cubes on it? YECH. Is this is the way they leave it, I think that will be the end of WM. Just wait another year and there will be so few buyers of the WM7 phones they will be discontinued.

gmatharu12 said:
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
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U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5

ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Lol exactly

ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
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Oh yeah?! So try to copy internet link and send it to your friend by sms.
Retard.

Conspiracy Theory?!

After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..

Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?

I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?

All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
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Click to collapse
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.

ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???

ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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Click to collapse
i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.

vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
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Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.

You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.

What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.

JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
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They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...

Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."

Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh

It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.

ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
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mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
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Click to collapse
wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.

I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!

wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!

This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.

I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.

Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.