Develop Bugs

CES 2011 A Bust For Windows Phone 7?

I decided to share this commentary here from my WP7 fansite http://www.L337ware.com because I wanted to see how you all felt about the subject and honestly my site doesn't get alot of traffic being a homegrown effort.
"First off I have to admit I may be a victim of my own self imposed hype. Now that I got that out of the way I can’t help being a little bit dissapointed at the Windows Phone 7 news coming out of CES 2011. For example where is the promise of new blockbuster applications such as Pandora, Skype, Hulu, and many more key fixtures available of other platforms? How bout some cool new phones to compete with the flood of amazing Android powered hardware on the way? Maybe some new XBox live features like voice support? Instead we get the somewhat creepy rantings from the queen of the butterfly cult and a lackluster list of future game titles. I don’t really need it to justify my purchase but while Microsoft was all over Kinect sales numbers they seem to shy away from talking about the market performance of their now heavily discounted Windows Phones. Honestly most people are well aware of the features of the more immediate update but talking more about the plans for the later half of the year would have giving early adopters quite a bit of comfort. I’m a pretty avid fan of Microsoft and their products but even I can’t help feeling slightly underwhelmed. While I know Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have seen many times how quickly they can refocus a brand to please it’s users I have to say that CES 2011 is not really get me excited for Windows Phone 7."

L337Ware said:
I don’t really need tit to justify my purchase...
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If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase

i like your site! if i can remember , i'll read it!

zukа said:
If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase
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Thank you so much for catching the random tit. Now that we all know what thoughts I'm surpressing while i'm on the internet we can carry on with our evening.

good thing i didnt jump on the wp7 at first site. i rather had wait to see how the developers would or would not embrace it. also the current phones seem to be outdated after reading the new android phones show cased at ces. the dell venue pro did peak my interest for its portrait slider and large screen but i wanted a front facing camera also. guess ill have to keep waiting for the next best thing
yes no new news for wp7 at ces was dissapointing. they did seem to avoid talking about their phones

c_legaspi said:
good thing i didnt jump on the wp7 at first site. i rather had wait to see how the developers would or would not embrace it. also the current phones seem to be outdated after reading the new android phones show cased at ces. the dell venue pro did peak my interest for its portrait slider and large screen but i wanted a front facing camera also. guess ill have to keep waiting for the next best thing
yes no new news for wp7 at ces was dissapointing. they did seem to avoid talking about their phones
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Honestly passed the geek **** fight that occurs when we start talking about our toys the Windows Phone has been a great experience so while I won't try to change your mind I will say it's been one of the most comfortable platforms I've used for a mobile device in my lifetime. I have no regrets from picking it up over iOS or Android but like a greedy child I want more and I want it from Microsoft yesterday.

zukа said:
If I'm at a strip club, I need tit to justify my purchase
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ok, LMFAO...heh
That was good...anyway back on topic..
As quoted here....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=10393777#post10393777
Maybe we are waiting for the Mobile World Congress starting on February 14th for new models to hit ?
Reflexx1 said:
Nothing really new.
When an MS rep was questioned, he did say something like (I'm paraphrasing), "We're saving some news for a later date. Only if there was an event coming up dedicated to mobile devices in Barcelona, Spain where we could talk about this..."
Making a not so thinly veiled reference to the Mobile World Congress starting on February 14th.
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Another site for my favs...I'll read it as long as it's updated

Nice site. If you need any casual contributers, give me a holler.

Reflexx1 said:
Nice site. If you need any casual contributers, give me a holler.
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I may definately take you up on that. It's a bit daunting doing all of this by myself and the few Android users I have now as casual contributors act like they will get struck with lightening if they post anything productive on the site.

L337Ware said:
... we get the somewhat creepy rantings from the queen of the butterfly cult and a lackluster list of future game titles.."
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sad but true they need to pick up the pace and satisfy us, their community and costumers. Both the iOS and Android, their competitors, are growing really fast, adding a lot more for our beloved WP7 to catch up with

heh
now that I've cooled down from the shock I can say that most of us put too much of expectation into yesterday announcement, and when it not satisfy our needs most of us (like me) felt like being cheated or thrown out
as for the new models, I just really don't think that it would make difference, since what we want is the change in software, not a 4.5" with Tigra and half-day battery to go along with it

i really like the l337ware site, definitely one for the bookmarks

hassler said:
as for the new models, I just really don't think that it would make difference, since what we want is the change in software, not a 4.5" with Tigra and half-day battery to go along with it
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Says who ??? Out of all the specs of ALL the WP7 phones, nothing is like WOW. Really, everything on every model has been done already by another maker or platform. I don't think anyone wants a 4.5" display, unless it's a tablet, it does not fit in the pocket too well. MS needs a show stopper, a really HOT WP7 phones, they don't have one. There is nice phones don't get me wrong but, no WOW phones.
I can honestly say CES had some Android phones that were faster and nicer displays, still not WOW but, a very strong Hmmmm. If they were WP7 models, I might get a happy about them.
Still dreaming for a Verizon WP7 phone...and not the Trophy

Agreed. Wp7 still doesn't have a superphone that can compete with you-know-iWho.

i am not sure what ppl were hoping from the CES and microsoft, WP7 was just launched in Oct 2010 and we are still waiting for the first update... adding on new things to the OS before the update will be not a wise thing to do...
come on guys this is CES not Mobile world Forum, and i hope some of you were not hoping for more hardware to be launched 3 months after the initial launch of the OS and 6 devices..
i was only hoping for the update date or week only... any way MS was tight liped with the WP7 and i think they will be tight liped for the update as well...

Here's a bit more info extracted by mobilitydigest:
http://mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-updates-from-ces-2011/

efjay said:
Here's a bit more info extracted by mobilitydigest:
http://mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-updates-from-ces-2011/
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The indecision on the Skydrive stuff is beginning to p*ss me off.

Well I have to say, that it's probably better off to wait for the MWC in February for phone news, I will wait for that to see whether I should wait for some decent spec'd wp7 devices, or just jump on the android ship.

WP7 is impressive OS but there is no killer WP7 device on the market. Dell Venur pro is one worth buying but I don't like its portrait keyboard. I'll wait for Nokia WP7 phone later this year.

adesonic said:
The indecision on the Skydrive stuff is beginning to p*ss me off.
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Well me too.....

Steve Ballmer's Keynote MWC 2011

The promises are good but like that first update I feel like we're going to wait until the last quarter of the year to get anything.
Thoughts?

If all these features here today WP7 would be in a much better place. Ideally the update should come before the iPhone 5 but I don't see that happening.

nor do I nothing has been specc'd regarding the new hw either...but the nokai thing is a good thing for microsoft

Oh My God! No new devices?!
All this for (almost) nothing!

Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.

For those who missed it, the entire keynote video will be up on the MWC site, but you can see the demo of 3rd party multitasking and Kinect integration below. It was interesting to hear that, both, Steve Ballmer and Joe Belfiore mentioned that these are not all the new features to come and that we'll be hearing more later this year (it hinted at the next generation of hardware devices).
Multitasking:
Kinect:
You can also see the press release here.

cant wait for those update, it is just awesome.

FiyaFleye said:
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
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Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.

Peew971 said:
Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
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There are numerous Android devices running on newer hardware and they look like average devices next to a WP7 device, not the other way around. Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models, I don't see the need for an advancement in hardware. The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying. There is one iPhone released every year, and since people on this forum are so quick to compare the iPhone and WP7 though I'm against it, I'll do it. That one phone gets bought throughout the whole year, even without a single update. So, I am more excited to hear about updates seeing as a refresh in a 'look' isn't so much needed.
But, with that being said, I think the OEMs will showcase the new devices, not Microsoft, if there are any.

FiyaFleye said:
Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models
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That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
FiyaFleye said:
The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying.
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The C&P update is due soon, there's no ETA for anything else except 2011.

Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.

Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
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+1
This is one of the reasons I haven't upgraded yet. I want a great piece of distinctive hardware.

FiyaFleye said:
Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
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Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase new phone to demo if there was one.

Peew971 said:
Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase show to demo if there was one.
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In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.

Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
So it seems like anyone with half a brain was correct - Microsoft is playing Apple's cynical game of withholding vital, easily-implemented features so that they can add them later to much media fanfare
They are reaching out to the casual base by gaining media support (these guys just loooove routine feature updates), presenting the illusion of "moving forward" ("hey look, we can do THAT now!") and not overwhelming the nontechnical user by not having all features available from the get-go.
In the process they are pissing on the so-called 'core base' (which aren't their core base at all obviously - clearly there is much more money to be made from the easily-impressionable, technologically-retarded crowd)
And that's all fine and dandy, but I just don't understand why people from THIS site would support this business model.
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I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).

keyboardP said:
In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
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Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.

Pickx said:
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
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I honestly think you're wrong here. Apple does this to warrant the purchase of a new iPhone, and outdate their older models, whereas the WinPhone releases are going to work on original launch devices. It isn't as though Microsoft is charging us for these updates either, they have no incentives to hold back these updates, actually, in the position they're in, it's in their best interest to be quick with them.

Pickx said:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
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I wouldn't be so cynical. The first thing people are going to do when entering a dominated market is to compare the two devices. I don't think copy and paste was left out for tactical reasons because it's such a basic feature that it created more negativity at launch than positivity right now.
Apple could afford to do that because of their following and the 'trendy' kids who would buy the product regardless of what it has or doesn't have, because it has the 'Apple' brand on it.
Also, with you comparing the size of MS to its capabilities of releasing products shows a lack of understanding of how the company actually works. In fact, its size actually works against it at times.
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.

Peew971 said:
Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
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MS is in it for the long run though. It would make little sense in releasing devices running on current hardware specs, when people could wait towards the end of the year for the next generation specs. Of course, they might do that, but I don't think it makes much sense to.

keyboardP said:
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
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Yes, but which crowd did it hurt its chances with? The kind of who compare features and read tech blogs aka NOT the casuals. This crowd is becoming increasingly irrelevant when it comes to actually selling devices.
I still think the biggest reason to withhold features is media support. Mobile phone wars have demonstrated time and time again that constant media attention is cardinal to continued interest in a product (especially when said product is, say, an operating system a.k.a something which an entire line of products is based on). By routinely making feature updates, and delivering said features with some "user experience glitter" on top, Apple has been able to receive constant attention even from news outlets that are not strictly related to consumer tech. Microsoft would, naturally, want a similar treatment but according to my view, they are doing this the easy way - not by announcing feature updates that contain so-called revolutionary features but rather with features that the competition has already had for a while.
Also, if WP7 had copy/paste, multitasking, Flash on launch date, what would Ballmer be showing us now on MWC? Tight SkyDrive integration is a fantastic feature IMO but the average non-techie guy who already has a WP7 device just wouldn't find it as "sexy" as a YouTube video that shows the device multitasking.

Well done, MS

MS came through on the usability and quality of WP7 at last. The NoDo update made my Samsung Focus the supreme phone in my collection. Yeah, yeah...I know WP7 still lacks the usual features. But I'm loving the experience with my Focus so much I really don't miss them. It helps to have other phones that have those missing features
The Focus is supreme and WP7 is now supreme. They are both working pretty much flawlessly. The market loads and scrolls effortlessly now. I think it's even better than the Android market for functionality. It does quite often put me back at the top of a category after I install an app, though. But it is most certainly free of the frustration inducing loading and scroll-freezing. And I have yet to experience a market freeze-up.

I must agree, while it is missing some small feature atm. What it does, it does very well. Now that I got full GPS, only real thing I need is for Adobe to finally make Flash support & full Multitasking that's in Mango when it comes. Just wish that update wasn't so far away.

Looks like you updated late

amtrakcn said:
Looks like you updated late
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Not really. I got the NoDo/firmware update as soon as it was released. I've just been using my phone long enough to appraise it as what I described. I have had the habit of speaking a bit too soon about something and then it falls apart. Not so with WP7 this time around.

Only 2 things I miss would be sending/uploading a vid& flash support....Still like it better than my EVO 4G
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Additional features are coming, and with Mango, the response/load time ect of all applications will be even higher as was shown during MIX11.
Here's a video of the code improvements which give a boost to app load times and responsiveness: Around 1:02:00
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/MIX/MIX11/KEY02

I agree wholeheartedly in all aspects but one (and it really has nothing to do with MS, but the Focus). Samsung is BY FAR the most pathetic hardware manufacturer in the WP7 game with respect to creating useful value-added apps for their marketplace. And even when the DO come with something good, they pull it a month later.
Look at the amazing apps that HTC (YouTube, etc) and LG (Pano camera add-on, voice-to-text, etc) have produced, and then look at the chaff in the Samsung Zone. There is no comparison.

RoboDad said:
I agree wholeheartedly in all aspects but one (and it really has nothing to do with MS, but the Focus). Samsung is BY FAR the most pathetic hardware manufacturer in the WP7 game with respect to creating useful value-added apps for their marketplace. And even when the DO come with something good, they pull it a month later.
Look at the amazing apps that HTC (YouTube, etc) and LG (Pano camera add-on, voice-to-text, etc) have produced, and then look at the chaff in the Samsung Zone. There is no comparison.
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Yeah, I agree. The dearth of desirable apps by Sammy is certainly troubling. AT&T has a couple I use, though.

Copy and paste should work with the stock calculator.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Completely agree. Post-Nodo I'm really enjoying the experience - the phone was good but now it's great.
The only things I am personally missing from my old iPhone 4 are psuedo-multitasking and good IM clients. Otherwise the experience with WP7 / Xbox / Zune Pass is fantastic

I am also happy with my WP7 experience. But c&p phone numbers would be lovly, as well internet speed up on my Omnia 7. Its redicilous slow atm. Flash or decent you tube app and flashlight would also make my day. Wish MS could include a flashlight as standard, really annoying.

Nakazul said:
I am also happy with my WP7 experience. But c&p phone numbers would be lovly, as well internet speed up on my Omnia 7. Its redicilous slow atm. Flash or decent you tube app and flashlight would also make my day. Wish MS could include a flashlight as standard, really annoying.
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There are several YouTube apps to choose from. I for one use Lazytube, which is really great imho. You can also find loads of flashlights on the marketplace. Don't know whether they use the LEDs or not, since I have an HD7 with HTC flashlight and thus have no need for any 3rd party app.

I also feel the same after nodo. initially i thought MS fooled me thrice but now feels like i am loving the uniqueness of it. Sure it is new OS so need to give it time after all. Hope MS do not drop the ball.

raman_mogal said:
I also feel the same after nodo. initially i thought MS fooled me thrice but now feels like i am loving the uniqueness of it. Sure it is new OS so need to give it time after all. Hope MS do not drop the ball.
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I hope Mango will release this year.

MartyLK said:
I hope Mango will release this year.
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Thats pretty much guaranteed. I would be VERY surprised if they don't get this out before the holiday season.

dtboos said:
Thats pretty much guaranteed. I would be VERY surprised if they don't get this out before the holiday season.
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They didn't get NoDo out until way after Jan/Feb. I expect Mango probably around Feb/Mar. of 2012, but I hope it shows up this year.

MartyLK said:
They didn't get NoDo out until way after Jan/Feb. I expect Mango probably around Feb/Mar. of 2012, but I hope it shows up this year.
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To be honest I think they will be pulling out all the stops to ensure they release mango by end of October or early November.
1. To introduce new handsets for the Christmas period with the brand spanking new OS.
2. Because of iOS 5 looming on the horizon.
3. To keep a consistent timeline going like Apple. Launch was November.
And if they are not then this will be a failure for them. Nokia also should be trying at all costs to push out a Windows Phone for fall too.

i agree with OP.... MS did it this time with the mobile OS...
i am wating for 2 things 1st MANGO, 2nd is Nokia hardware...

One thing I have noticed about owning a Nexus....

This isnt a knock against the Nexus, but somewhat against ICS in general. There are more than a few apps that are unavailable to me to download that I purchased previous to getting the Nexus. Navigon navigation being one of them, is unavailable to get from play store. There are a few others, too, a motorcycle game I wanted to buy just now isn't available for my Nexus. This is I think one of the very few pros of owning an apple product. If the app worked on ios 4, it will work on ios 5, and if it doesnt, an update is issued soon there after.

stevessvt said:
This isnt a knock against the Nexus, but somewhat against ICS in general. There are more than a few apps that are unavailable to me to download that I purchased previous to getting the Nexus. Navigon navigation being one of them, is unavailable to get from play store. There are a few others, too, a motorcycle game I wanted to buy just now isn't available for my Nexus. This is I think one of the very few pros of owning an apple product. If the app worked on ios 4, it will work on ios 5, and if it doesnt, an update is issued soon there after.
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Blame the developer for not updating it then?
Alternatively, go to the web store and try to install it that way.

The app developers haven't updated their apps yet. If you think about it it's to be expected. How many phones are running ICS out there compared to gingerbread?

spencer88 said:
The app developers haven't updated their apps yet. If you think about it it's to be expected. How many phones are running ICS out there compared to gingerbread?
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Or those with 720p screens?

OK, I guess that is the more correct direction to point the finger, the app developers, but I think google should lien on the developers some to get the apps working correctly, especially the big $$ ones. I have side loaded the Navigon app and its all messed up on ICS.

stevessvt said:
OK, I guess that is the more correct direction to point the finger, the app developers, but I think google should lien on the developers some to get the apps working correctly, especially the big $$ ones. I have side loaded the Navigon app and its all messed up on ICS.
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Google can't force developers to keep their apps updated though. That said, the play store says it has ICS updates. It is more likely a resolution issue.

adrynalyne said:
Or those with 720p screens?
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I dont think the screen res is as big a deal at this point, there are several oddball size screens that apps look fine on. Droid X was one, 480X854, and everything was fine on it. Plus there are several 720P phones out there now.
Also on the Navigon app, its the voice that was messed up, studdering and repeating itself over and over.

stevessvt said:
I dont think the screen res is as big a deal at this point, there are several oddball size screens that apps look fine on. Droid X was one, 480X854, and everything was fine on it. Plus there are several 720P phones out there now.
Also on the Navigon app, its the voice that was messed up, studdering and repeating itself over and over.
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Do those 720p devices have support?
480x854 isn't an oddball resolution; a good chunk of Motorola handsets and some Sony as well use this resolution.
http://androidcheck.com/listing/resolution/480x854/

Well, again to go back to the Navigon app, reading on the play store it seems to work on the HTC Rezound ok,...

stevessvt said:
google should lien on the developers
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Like, take their houses and stuff?
Sorry, couldn't help it.

adrynalyne said:
Or those with 720p screens?
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This is true, I forgot to mention that.
It's easy for apple to make it easy because they've had the same screen size and resolution for over 2 years now, going on 3 if they don't change it up this summer.

I'm sorry, but blaming the developers is a far cry from the truth...
Lets face it, Google doesn't even prioritize developers... While iOS developers have access to preview versions of the next iOS, to start to debug in advance, that work on the latest available generation iDevice, google doesn't do that... So, while iOS developers had many months to debug and test and fix their apps (and at the same time, they did not have to buy a new phone), most developers need to wait until the first phone with the new Android O/S is released, and then it is like running against the time, as you need to grab a new phone, bla bla bla... And no, an emulator doesn't really help you with games and other apps that are high performance...
It is a shame that some big companies like E.A. seems to get no interest into the Galaxy Nexus (as the lack of good games like Real Racing 2, Peggle, PvsZ is astonishing for a multi million dollar company), but, as far as most developers are concerned, it is not fair to compare iOS and Android. One tries to give all the tools so the developers are ready for the launch, the other, meh... Gives close to nothing and all you earn is a big surprise with a new O/S where some things you were used to use doesn't work, and it is up to you to grab a new device, specifically when it was already launched and you have dozens of angry consumers telling that you suck...

I have a friend who is an Android developer and somehow has managed to keep device compatibility with each OS release without ever owning the device.
So interesting theory, but it is at least partially a BS copout. Especially in this thread, where ICS updates have been made to the program, and yet the GN has been out since November and has no support. That is of no fault from Google.
Also, developers that are not willing to spend money, to make money, suck anyway. I think Navigon can afford some Galaxy Nexus devices.

HinotoriBR said:
I'm sorry, but blaming the developers is a far cry from the truth...
Lets face it, Google doesn't even prioritize developers... While iOS developers have access to preview versions of the next iOS, to start to debug in advance, that work on the latest available generation iDevice, google doesn't do that... So, while iOS developers had many months to debug and test and fix their apps (and at the same time, they did not have to buy a new phone), most developers need to wait until the first phone with the new Android O/S is released, and then it is like running against the time, as you need to grab a new phone, bla bla bla... And no, an emulator doesn't really help you with games and other apps that are high performance...
It is a shame that some big companies like E.A. seems to get no interest into the Galaxy Nexus (as the lack of good games like Real Racing 2, Peggle, PvsZ is astonishing for a multi million dollar company), but, as far as most developers are concerned, it is not fair to compare iOS and Android. One tries to give all the tools so the developers are ready for the launch, the other, meh... Gives close to nothing and all you earn is a big surprise with a new O/S where some things you were used to use doesn't work, and it is up to you to grab a new device, specifically when it was already launched and you have dozens of angry consumers telling that you suck...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
adrynalyne said:
I have a friend who is an Android developer and somehow has managed to keep device compatibility with each OS release without ever owning the device.
So interesting theory, but it is at least partially a BS copout. Especially in this thread, where ICS updates have been made to the program, and yet the GN has been out since November and has no support.
Also, developers that are not willing to spend money, to make money, suck anyway. I think Navigon can afford some Galaxy Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can see both POVs for sure. I will always hate EA, they refuse to update their apps, REFUSE to, and WILL NOT respond to any email. I dont buy anything from EA on ANY console/device, that includes sports games. Anyways back on topic: If we were still within the first month or two of ICS launch then I would agree that we need to give the devs more time to work this out, but since we are not.. I say it is absolutely, at this point, the devs fault for not updating his/her app(s). I know there are some devs that are still currently struggling to get their apps updated and doing it without an ICS device, but personally I think its been enough time. Although better late than never. One app that comes to mind, and I mentioned this on another thread the other day, is WiFi Status! That was always a favorite app of mine, very simple, just if your WiFi is on but your not connected to a network it puts a symbol in your notif bar so you remember to turn it off.. How hard can it possibly be to update that!? That surely isn't Google's fault, its the devs.

Rumors, Lies, Truth and Sorcery: Gizmodo: Every Windows Phone Will Get Windows 8

http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...

Hopefully because I just bought a Lumia 800 to change my trophy.

I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....

I agree wholeheartedly.
I'd even be happy if older devices got a "subset" of WP8, to be honest. However, with that said, I'm still using my first gen Samsung Focus, it's gotten nothing but faster and more feature complete with each update, and it's been my intention all along to grab a WP8 native devices when they come out, so I'll be OK either way.
One thing I'm glad for: even if WP7 first generation devices don't wind up with an upgrade, Microsoft has been very conscientious about making each update trimmer and faster than the one before, so people "stuck" with WP7 aren't going to be screwed over by a crappy software update that cripples their device, a la Apple with the iOS4/iPhone 3G debacle. And honestly, if the first gen WP8 devices aren't up to what I expect, well, then I'm happy to keep using my first generation device until they do get their. I'm hoping to hell that all the secrecy surrounding WP8 means that it'll be a mind blowing spec, with a full-bore implementation of TellMe, integrated Kinect camera and mic array, etc. Time will tell!
DavidinCT said:
I want to believe this but, till a solid direct from Microsoft says it, not at developer evangelist for Microsoft, I will believe it.
If you look at all the facts, there has not been a single word about this directly from Microsoft in the last few months. There is a lot of factors why older devices might not get WP8, new hardware, new standards on displays, etc.
So, as it gets closer to an acutal release and Microsoft says something clearly stating that all first and 2nd gen devices will get Windows Phone 8, I will believe it.
Personly, I expect it. WHy ? The biggest problem with Android is fragmentation. One *new* device comes with 2.3 others come with 4.0 and most people who are not part of XDA (and not afraid to "root" their phone) wont see or even attempt to upgrade. As a buyer goes, I want the newest sofware on my device when I buy it and it's a much better value if I can have the current version a year down the line. This is what Microsoft needs to do to keep growing WP7 device sales.
Time will tell but, again till Microsoft says it, it's just another rumor....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable

magicsquid said:
Interesting tweets from Paul Thurrott.
andrewje_home: @thurrott what's your take on the wp7 -> wp8 upgrade rumours? Would be silly of MS to cut off existing users. There lack of comment is poor.
thurrott: @andrewje_home There is no way they will broadly support upgrades. I'd be surprised if a single phone was upgradeable.
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192632302591942656
Kee: ‏@thurrott buying 900 and no update after 6 months. That sucks
thurrott: @eskeemo What makes you think there will be "no update"?
https://twitter.com/#!/thurrott/status/192633133559066625
I have seen a post that old phones will get an update but it won't be Windows 8. Wonder if Paul is also implying this.
eldarmurtazin: @verge they have Apollo style update in pipeline for wp7 (ui, some apps, tweaks). But it isn't Apollo. People will like it I think
https://twitter.com/#!/eldarmurtazin/status/192500720371638272
Yes, I know the source isn't always the most reliable
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.

http://m.gizmodo.com/5903416/current-windows-phones-may-not-be-getting-upgraded-after-all
So. No. I'll have to change my thread title. Ah. Rumors.

dtboos said:
And this is the thing. People are thinking because they don't get the "Apollo" OS that they won't get feature & tweak updates ect. They will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah there are already two versions of Tango in the pipeline, the one going on the 256MB devices and the one that's a refresh for Mango. So why not two Apollo's.

Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple design his own hardware.

mikeeam said:
Funny too see how the company that was blaming Android and its fragmentations is doing exactly the same thing. Hahahahahah.
That's a shame. And Apple deserves a prize. The only one who can do that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
& in his definition of fragmentation, Apple is too. There will always be fragmentation when you add new features/enhance/mature an OS. The problem with fragmentation that MS was talking about is that what you can do on an Android is wholly dependent on the device you have. My ex-roommates have non top of the line Androids & they are total garbage. You have no flash support, no hotspot support, it lags to all hell (ui takes seconds to respond to touch input)/etc. All WP7's look the same & perform almost the same. This is the kind of fragmentation MS was talking about. How a Top tier Android could have all these cool features & be fast & smooth while low end devices are garbage.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

lqaddict said:
Is that like telling lumia 800 users they should've bought lumia 900 if they wanted internet sharing capabilities?
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.

drupad2drupad said:
And you surely don't understand the differences between the two fragmentations here.
Android ones - you need to buy a new phone if you want new OS features.
MS ones - you will get mostly the updated OS, but not the features that need new hardware - common sense!
But Apple deserves a prize for making only 5 phones since it's birth, yes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, 5 phones, but second generation got 3 years of support. That's remarkable, lets admit. I dont like iPhone, but I envy how Apple just go, release their updates without carriers crying around, at the same time to everyone. Lets give them some credit here.
And fragmentation is fragmentation. I never doubt my 3 months old iPhone wouldnt be updated. My Lumia, otherwise.. This silence of MS is making me anxious.
Just think, why MS would keep in secret something like "the second generation will be updated"?! Makes no sense. It's not marketing strategy, it's worse for them with all those rumors.
And everytime someone ask one of the team, they avoid the direct answer.
I had a HTC Trophy, and 3 months ago bought a Lumia 800. I regret that for now.

drupad2drupad said:
No.
Because internet sharing is present even on Lumia 800 and doesn't need any extra hardwares. You missed the exact point I was making.
However, if Lumia 800 users wanted a 4.3 inches screen with LTE support and FFC, then they should have waited for Lumia 900. Similarly if anyone wants a dual-core processor and high screen res to show off, they shouldn't buy Lumia 900 because MSFT Apollo won't obviously add those hardware features to any phone! Hence anything that depends on dual-core processor (it won't be the OS!) will not work on Lumia 900.
If you need a gyroscope for an app or a feature which Windows Phone 8 will have in it's "required hardware specs" - you cannot expect that feature to show up on old phones. They don't have the hardware to support the OS/software.
However, if WP UI overhaul takes place or added features like folders, shortcuts, IE improvement, Office or any other added integration like Skype kicks in, I don't see why current hardware won't be able to support it! It will. It can. 1Ghz is more than enough as it is. These added features don't need extra processor. May be extra memory? So then Nokia Lumia 610 might seem a little slow if that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry that a link to a picture of something resembling a phone screen with Chinese characters and a bunch of speculation in English text underneath.
People throw fragmentation all over the Android world, yet turn blind eye to things like Bing non-support in markets where MSFT launched their product, etc.
Simply put, there are too many excuses surrounding this platform, and MSFT seem to play that card pretty well with 90% satisfaction rate as the one of few statistics thrown around.
http://andrewtechhelp.com/andrews-t...feature-availability-matrix-the-mango-edition
Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk 2

bmstrong said:
http://m.gizmodo.com/5902860/every-windows-phone-ever-will-get-the-windows-phone-8-upgrade
Good news...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We heard this about the HTC HD2 and moving to Windows 7.
Safety Notice:
DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH
But still, even if 8 isn't officially released, you can put money on a port. Gotta love XDA.
EDITED: NOT HAPPENING.

If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2

narta said:
If my Lumia doesn't get the new kernel and UI and MSFT pulls a Galaxy S feature pack they can kiss my behind goodbye
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.

oldpueblo said:
Goodbye!
http://www.winsupersite.com/article/paul-thurrotts-wininfo/wininfo-short-takes-april-20-2012-142888
Honestly, I find myself not caring at all. I didn't want to stay on my old WP7 handset, I didn't want to switch to Android or iPhone. Instead I'm going to enjoy this fantastic Lumia 900 until I feel it's time to move to Apollo at the end of the year or early next year. I can take it back still, but I don't want to. I know people still on Gingerbread that are perfectly happy, I myself declined the honeycomb update on my tablet. Stop freaking out about specs and updates and versions in the future and just enjoy your phone.
But yes this is still not official, still plenty of time to change their stance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's wrong that MSFT is allowing such harmful speculation as to the support of previous generation devices. Their silence is allowing people to get in a tizzy over what could be absolutely nothing. I met someone last month at a dinner party who works at MSFT and said that Apollo runs beautifully on the Lumia 900.
I find flaw with the article you linked when it said...
"Second, the experience would be terrible; Windows Phone 8 is based on Windows 8, not Windows Phone 7.x, and requires headier, higher-end hardware with two or more core processors."
This is in direct opposition to the entire purpose of the Tango release to allow for lower-end hardware. Why would MSFT make an effort to allow for more affordable devices if the WP8 platform won't work on them in the future? This means that lower-end devices will never exist on WP8 until dual core becomes cheap.
Rather, what I think this article gets wrong is that WP8 does not require dual core, but allows for it to exist in the first place.
WP7 has a high floor and a low ceiling. Tango lowered the floor and Apollo will be raising the ceiling. Whether we'll get the update is up in the air, but I'm personally anticipating it to happen.
MSFT does need to stop being so secretive though. It's hard to build and keep a fanbase under the current business model.