Related
For me, with Overclock.. it's EXCELLENT! I can have it in standby but still have background data going (push gmail, twitter apps, etc.) for days at a time and still have some juice left.
Just today with some admittedly light usage (but I did use it) I had battery use time of 12Hrs with over 70% left.
I'm using setvsel @
35 @ 400MHz
50 @ 800MHz
65 @ 1200MHz
CPU Icon is set to refresh every second and it's supposed to cap at Vsel 2 @ 10%. It's as stable as ever.. been running like this for weeks now. I'm taking note of how much I appreciate the excellent battery life I get because my Vibrant has been getting really bad lately.
Running Barebones 1.3 with
19 @ 300Mhz
35 @ 600MHz
52 @ 1000Mhz
Battery Life is excellent - more than 48h without recharging is no problem.
I get 2 days of standby with heavy texting,surfing over wifi,calling and some gaming. DEFY battery performance is one the best amongst all Android phones.
el*Loco said:
Running Barebones 1.3 with
19 @ 300Mhz
35 @ 600MHz
52 @ 1000Mhz
Battery Life is excellent - more than 48h without recharging is no problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Undervolting your cpu can harm your hardware real badly. I've had my defy stopped working and shut down completely in the past so i won't recommend you OC or UV
EDIT: tho i still undervolt but 19 vsel is too low for 300 mhz, raise it upto 26 or so
Yes, 19 vsel maybe too low, at least in my case. When I ran the stability test, anything less than 24 would hang the phone after some 10 minutes. 24 is fine in my case but I set it at 26 to give a little more juice.
LOL. Why the hell, should undervolting harm the cpu? Undervolting improves your cpu's lifetime, instead! Less voltage means less stress (heat) and less leak currents for the cpu.
Well, it's true that you might have some instability issues, when the voltage is too low. As soon as you experience so, you can raise the voltage a little, until you have a stable cpu. I've been using undervolting for my PC's CPUs for several years.
PS: I'm on [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]
Never had any problems with my settings, some in this forum use even lower voltages.
mine is
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
I use wifi quite a lot. But still the battery backup is ok compared to my previous phones!
Running on Pays 5.0
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
I have to charge every two days.
running on pay 3.1
setvsel:
350/22
700/38
1100/56
48h no problem, record is 80h on moderate use
The battery life on the Defy is absolutely amazing.
I can easily get between 2 and 3 days of normal usage and somewhere in the region of 4-5 if I use it very little.
I reckon if I switched off 3G, had the brightness down as low as possible and generally tried not to use the phone much, I could push a week.
Sadly, my Defy is 'in the shop' just now, damned earpiece.
What do you guys run on the background? I probably able to get 1.5 days on normal usage. Even after charging and no usage, I lose about 10 % after an hour or so.
lanfearxt said:
What do you guys run on the background? I probably able to get 1.5 days on normal usage. Even after charging and no usage, I lose about 10 % after an hour or so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is impossible to get 1.5 day if defy uses 10% for 1 hour standby. Defy rounds 95% to 100%, and 94% to 90%. So it is possible that an apparent 10% drop is actually a 1% drop. You may install Motocharge to see the battery in 1% increment.
I'm happy to hear everyone getting excellent battery life. The DEFY is a truly unique Android phone.. I'm just afraid that us stateside won't get devices like this because of AT&T... the Bravo is a step below the DEFY just because it doesn't share the same faux-rugged water resistant build. I'm glad T-Mobile picked this one up, overclocked it's only a bit slower than my Vibrant in most operations.
Well I did a Quadrant benchmark 'standoff' with a colleague of mine which has a Samsung Galaxy S [EU version of the Vibrant] and I beat him with over 250 points [the Galaxy S did 975, my Defy did 1334], both running Froyo and the Defy being non-overclocked.
I've also noticed that his Galaxy S tends to hang & stutter from time to time. Regarding battery life, he carries his charger with him at all times, I do not, 'nuff said.
I also get ~1.5days of battery life.
I'm able to squeeze more than 80 hours of usage on a single charge running PaYs 5.0. Light to moderate use of WiFi/Data/GPS/BT, no background syncs and most apps firewalled except through WiFi.
SetVsel:
18/300
32/700
58/1100
ABC_Universal said:
It is impossible to get 1.5 day if defy uses 10% for 1 hour standby. Defy rounds 95% to 100%, and 94% to 90%. So it is possible that an apparent 10% drop is actually a 1% drop. You may install Motocharge to see the battery in 1% increment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i used circle battery widget and it does shows 1% increments. after 90%, it slows down in terms of usage.
i also forgot to mention that my defy sometime runs pretty hot at 35-38C, which i think accelerates the discharge
what about autobrightness? if is set it on, the battery drains much faster.
For me, with undervolt (800/46;600/30;300/18) I can use my phone to make calls, send sms, surf the web, run some apps, and run one a two games.
After 24h of that usage, I have 50% remaining.
a strange thing happened to me (sorry for my English):
Yesterday I installed the camera 360 that did not work it gave some error. Last night when I went to sleep (1-1.30) had 50% battery, in the morning (7.30-8) phone was dead. I put the phone to recharge, from 11 to 3 o'clock phone has reached 30% of battery so i put the phone to recharge again. Until 10 pm the phone has reached again 30% of battery so I decided to give him a factory reset. With 30% i did 100+ app backups with titanium pro and I gave factory reset, after the phone restore from factory reset surprise the battery show 60% ??? I did restore 100+ app and battery show 50%, I played about a half hour and still 50% battery??? what the hell happened??? 360 camera app has to do with rapid battery discharge???
- I use advance Task Manager droidwall, light <10%, original rom only rooted
- anyway Battery discharge I think is caused by the signal GSM of my operator's.
- anyway in the night i decided to kill the traffic and by that the battery shouldn't discharged hardly over night. right?
(Q) sometimes the touch screen it freezes in games so I have to put the phone in standby and come out of standby, and then the touch screen works again ... this happens to you to?
Greetings gents,hows it going?
I got a question,i managed to overclock my phone to stable [email protected]
But now im trying to push it to [email protected],and its working properly atm,30mins of Stability test and running good.
My only concern is...im watching the temperature and its at 43ºC atm..which isnt exactly "cold" .
My question is,which are the max secure temperatures this beast can go before getting in the risk of frying the CPU?
Thanks in advance ^
PS : I tried searching around but all i found is VSel's...im interested in temps rather than VSel's.
Respect
Is that your battery temp or the CPU temp?
If it's battery temp, I'd be starting to be concerned there. CPU's can handle way higher temps though, 80+C before I'd get worried at all.
But try it out in the sun, too.
dasbin said:
Is that your battery temp or the CPU temp?
If it's battery temp, I'd be starting to be concerned there. CPU's can handle way higher temps though, 80+C before I'd get worried at all.
But try it out in the sun, too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm tbh im not sure which temp it is,StabilityTest says "Temperature"p,now i got no idea tbh which of them it is XD
Time to try again
EDIT : Yep,those 43 - 44ºC are Battery Temps,so should i worry?o.o
80ºC, that's for laptops and desktops, even i start getting warnings in syslog at 85ºC in my core i5 laptop with fan running max speed, and we are talking about a phone processor encased with other chips in a very little space and with no heat dissipation at all... you could not hold it up at 80º though burning and melting on your hands.
There's a lot of info about batteries here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
I dont think defy is able to drain enough energy to increase battery temperature to dangerous levels, but with temperatures above 40º chemistry inside battery is going to suffer,the higher the temps the less cycles of charge you are gonna get and you are risking a permanent loss of capacity.
The best way for a long life battery is small charges from 25% to 80%
Multiple charges between 80%-100% is the worst thing one can do.
anyway reaching 43º for battery during stress test is not for concern
Battery Monitor Widget is a very good program to keep an eye, and see graphs and stats of battery temps consumption projections and estimations of of juice left.. its simply amazing runs 24/7 and if you dont open it to play with it, it only takes about 10 seconds of total cpu power per day. i would recommend it. So it wont eat your battery when monitoring it, and the same goes for "process monitor" which is perfect to know total cpu power eaten by all apps trhough the day.
unrafa said:
80ºC, that's for laptops and desktops, even i start getting warnings in syslog at 85ºC in my core i5 laptop with fan running max speed, and we are talking about a phone processor encased with other chips in a very little space and with no heat dissipation at all... you could not hold it up at 80º though burning and melting on your hands.
There's a lot of info about batteries here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
I dont think defy is able to drain enough energy to increase battery temperature to dangerous levels, but with temperatures above 40º chemistry inside battery is going to suffer,the higher the temps the less cycles of charge you are gonna get and you are risking a permanent loss of capacity.
The best way for a long life battery is small charges from 25% to 80%
Multiple charges between 80%-100% is the worst thing one can do.
anyway reaching 43º for battery during stress test is not for concern
Battery Monitor Widget is a very good program to keep an eye, and see graphs and stats of battery temps consumption projections and estimations of of juice left.. its simply amazing runs 24/7 and if you dont open it to play with it, it only takes about 10 seconds of total cpu power per day. i would recommend it. So it wont eat your battery when monitoring it, and the same goes for "process monitor" which is perfect to know total cpu power eaten by all apps trhough the day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh Right,
Yeh its true that the best would be from totally discharged to totally charged for its life.
And good to know 43ºC isnt panic-able yet cause the phone runs very well on 1.3GHz/65 and a score of 2700 of Quadrant (Impressive aint it).
Anyways,thanks for all the info =)
Respect
Running 1400MHz/87vsel i have reached 48C in a few minutes. Oc over 1200MHz is not good for battery.
I am new to android phones. And i have no experience about overclock.
Will my cpu easily break down due to keep overclocking?..
Honestly, i seldom change my cell phone model, i want my defy can stay a life at least 1.5yr.
i think overclocking can't really damage your phone, voltage can. so i suggest you keep the voltage around [email protected] (default is [email protected], so this should be fine), and if the phone doesn't hang or reboot, you're good to go but you could try lowering vsels, you know, the lower the voltage, the lower the power consumption, the heat and the chance to fry your cpu but i'm not sure!
Yep, 1 GHz is safe, I'm using [email protected] as well, and the CPU is capable to run easily at [email protected] continuously. The leaked Gingerbread ROM from Motorola uses 1GHz as well, so don't worry, you just have to find the safe vsel settings.
thanks for replying, i m currently using 1GHz @ 58 .. Everything is alright
Should I make the voltage as low as possible?
yeah, just to lower the power consumption and temperature, but it isn't necessary.
Can you share your voltage setting please..?
I do the stability test and it gets successful run for 5min then this means the setting is okay?
i don't overclock, just undervolt, here are my settings (with setvsel):
800MHz - 45vsel
600MHz - 30vsel
300MHz - 18vsel
up_threshold: 90%
actually if you wanna make absolutely sure your device is stable, you should run it like for an hour. but if it runs for 5 minutes without error that's quite okay, you shouldn't have problems with those settings
Thanks so much, i m trying to lower my voltage setting.
Besides, i want to ask about the battery temperature, what is the maximum temperature before getting damage to the cell? I usually goes up to 37~39 degree celsius.. is it normal?
mine is usually around 29-32 °C, but i have it undervolted, so idk. but 37-39 seems a bit high, that means the cpu temp is way over 40 degrees, you should check it out!
EDIT: tried stress testing for 20 minutes with [email protected], it went up to 35°C, so you should definitely find out what's wrong with your device!
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
nisamtetreb said:
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so, what's your standby lifetime after underclocked cpu?
I can see the performance improved when i was watching flash video on browser. But honestly, i dont think there are anymore huge difference after overclocking..
But as the battery life still remains quite well, i will still keep overclocking to 1GHz.. Isn't it a good idea?
nisamtetreb said:
I actually underclocked to 600MHz, since I couldn't see a big difference even at 1200MHz in normal usage. A Pentium3 at 4Ghz will still not perform as well as a slower clocked new CPU for example, CPU design is more important - what instructions it supports.
Battery life is more imprtant to me and heat is very bad for Li-ion batteries too.
Also I found changing the CPU governor to "interactive" made a difference in GUI responsiveness and I have had less stuttering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol... What happend to HD and THD games... Did u try playing them at 600mhz??
Overclocking to 1 GHz with the right voltage values seems to be absolutely no problem for Defy.
BTW, does anyone know whether it's possible to set scaling governor to "Interactive" mode under Froyo? Gingerbread kernel let me set it, but I haven't found the way under Froyo.
Battery life was a little bit better, the display and 3G always draw a lot of power.
Standby time got better, but I don't use very low vsel any more due to errors in YouTube and dropped connection of radio streams.
Before I used 300-600-800 at 20-30-48, this was very stable in stability test, but for example Youtube would start showing "error playing video". After I increased vsel, it went away.
I mostly did it to lower temperature, optimal temperature for li-ion is around 25°C according to Wikipedia I think.
I don't play 3d games, they would benefit the most from overclock I believe.
Angry birds RIO for example would stutter for a second or two after a level loaded, but it would become as smooth as at higher clocks, when I wait for a second.
I hope flash gets better, when hardware acceleration gets enabled in Quarx's CM7.
I was running [email protected] for a month straight. No issues at all. The highest my temp reached was 112F after playing games for about an hour straight. I now just run it at [email protected], and it's plenty fast for me. I did some "testing" with all the options in SetVsel. It's not science sound, but if you use the Gingerbread Icon in the notification bar, and are running at stock (800 speed) you will notice when the CPU maxes out it doesn't even reach full capacity. I found Words with Friends to really use the CPU, and at 800 it pings the meter in the orange (The notification icon shows green, orange, and red for "zones"). If I overclock it at 1000 or above then the meter goes into the red. I don't know the exact number it switches from orange to red, but being at stock 800 is well below what the chip can really do since it doesn't even max out the meter. I hope I didn't confuse anyone. It makes sense to me.
weird...my cpu at any game reach the 800mhz
yet even in normal situations like browsing through the files on the phone it reaches 800mhz
and also despite the values i use in setvsel are not high(which is:
24 @ 300
34 @ 600
48 @ 800
)
the phone still reaches maximum 38C when i play games and if i set the value in the third vsel the games starts to hang!!
seems like i am the only one who have these problems..but why
anyone have any idea
im running stock arabic froyo btw
if someone can confirm to me that i can keep Arabic language if i installed another rom using custom restore in nandroid then i would be using prays or official 2.3 but no one answered me about that
anyway the important thing is anyone knows why my cpu temp is always high?
Well ambient temperature is important too. If it is 30°C where you live and your phone's temperature is at 35°C I'd say you are good. If the outside temperature is 10°C and your phone is dat 40°C I'd say there is something wrong (unless you were playing games or watching a movie).
in my opinion, it is definitely safe that you overclocking to the leaked moto level.
however, the voltage is still a mystery.
there's no constant conclusion about this.
i'm using [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], and it works fine for me
I'm getting really annoyed. No problems clocking up to 1100mhz with stock voltage (58). But changing the voltage settings, even slightly, makes the phone more or less unstable.
This is not a thread about best battery tips, etc. And I'm hoping it is not another standard thread about how to calibrate our batteries.
There is a lot of information flying around regarding battery calibration. A lot of it involves draining the battery, plugging it in at certain time, removing the battery, erasing batterystats.bin, etc. etc. etc.
Some feel the batterystats.bin file is key, and others believe it is completely unrelated to how the battery performs--just a log of stats.
How can this be reconciled?
UPDATE: Deleting batterystats.bin to "recalibrate" a battery is total and utter nonsense
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1442989
https://plus.google.com/u/0/105051985738280261832/posts/FV3LVtdVxPT
Over on the Nexus One forum, there was/is an extensive discussion, with REAL data gleaned from reading the technical datasheets of the battery itself, and the DS2784 chip within. The key to the Nexus calibration program was the ability to reprogram values on the battery chip.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=765609
I don't know if much of anything is going to be the same on the GNex battery, since the N1 was a HTC product. However, if the charging algorithms are all dictated by the Android OS, instead of hardware specific, then it could provide useful precedent. (I am not going to go through all the Samsung forums to look for valid battery calibration threads--if you know of some, for say, the Nexus S or Galaxy S2 (predecessor and comparable cousin, let's call them) please comment).
Here's a primer for all I learned that was used on the Nexus One battery calibration program. Full credit to those fine users who took the reins and made that happen, and to the fine users who continue to provide user support to the newcomers who don't know/refuse to acknowledge the existence of a search function.
My hopes are that this will lead to more rational battery life discussions and maximization for the Galaxy Nexus.
(I am not an engineer, so if any of you out there would like to tighten the language used here, please let me know).
What are the important values in battery/calibration?
1. mV = voltage
2. mAh = milliamp hours, a measure of capacity. This is how much 'juice' your battery has left/stored.
3. mA = milliamps, a measure of current. This is how much 'battery power' your phone is drawing/using at a set time. GPS/bright screen means large mA usage.
Apparently, Samsung (and Motorola phones) do NOT have mA readings in their battery drivers. This poses a problem. Apps that measure current (such as the excellent and free "current widget") cannot give a readout.
How is the battery life % calculated?
Present mAh / "full" capacity mAh (more on "full" later)
When does a phone shut down?
1. When mAh = 0
OR
2. When mV < 3416, which is coded on the battery as the "empty voltage"
Whichever occurs first.
If mAh = 0, then batt % = 0. However if condition 2 occurs, batt % could be anything.
I have found the empty voltage on the GNex to be the same, 3416 mV.
I have found the maximum voltage on the stock GSM battery to be 4197 mV.
Through experimentation, it was found that reprogramming the "empty voltage" down to 3201mv could provide extended battery life. The voltage was found to drop very quickly any lower than that, providing minimal gain afterwards.
What is the full capacity of a battery?
On the N1 battery, it is coded into a chip on the battery itself. This can be reprogrammed with the calibration utility. The stock value was ~1400mah. This is called the Full40 value (the mAh at 40oC). A value called "battery age %" is used to adjust how close the real capacity is to the full, which decreases with use and age. By multiplying (batt age * full40), you get the real assigned capacity.
Some non-OEM batteries, however, had miscoded capacities, usually LOWER than what was advertised. This led to very disappointed users who had purchased extended batteries that lasted no longer than stock, due to wrong mAh coding. (See below how this could be corrected).
Other low-end crappy non-OEM batteries had a crap chip which was coded with nonsensical values. This also led to unreliable battery life. These chips were not reprogrammable.
The very interesting thing is whenever the battery thinks it was completely charged, the mAh becomes SET to this number. mAh is NOT an independent value. Also, you could set it whatever you wanted, whenever you wanted, whether it was accurate or not. % battery left was basically calculated as present mAh / (full40 mAh*batt age). So you could get false values of either too little or too much battery left.
Why does this matter? If that was falsely low, the phone would cut out at 0% battery life, but you would still have usable battery left. If it was falsely high, it would cut out at 10% or whatever, since voltage would hit 3416 faster than mAh hit 0.
How does the battery know/think it is full?
When connected to a charger, the phone draws +mA. It can start around 1000mA (depending on the charger), and drops as the battery becomes more and more charged.
Another coded value, the "minimum charge current," tells the battery when to stop drawing current. This is set at default to +80mA.
Another coded value, the "minimum charge voltage," tells the battery that as long as the voltage is less than this #, it should continue to charge. At default, this is 4099mV.
An important concept is that once the charge amperage drops below minimum charge current (and the voltage is > the minimum charge voltage), the battery thinks it is done. Again, that state becomes 100%. Again, the capacity mAh is SET to the full capacity, no matter what is at that time. The actual mAh doesn't matter--it BECOMES whatever is coded as the (age % * full capacity).
As with other values in the battery chip, minimum charge current can be changed. It can be made to 40mA, or 20mA, or whatever you wish. By doing this, the battery will continue to draw current, and thus charge more and longer, until the minimum charge current is met.
Speaking of charging amperage, this can be an issue when using a non-OEM crap car charger when using your smartphone as a GPS. If the DC adapter is NOT truly giving 1A, the phone will use more current than it is receiving, and the battery will continue to LOSE current despite being hooked to a charger. Upgrade your car DC adapter! They are not all made the same.
How does 'bump' charging relate to all this?
Bump charging is essentially a way to trick the battery to continue charging despite the current draw being < the minimum charge current.
There is a problem with this "full" battery detection method:
If you draw enough current from the battery, while it is charging, after the minimum charge volt is reached, you can PREMATURELY fool the battery into thinking it is done.
Say the charging mA is at +200mA. If you turn on your smartphone, start GPS, turn the lights on, stream Pandora, etc., the mA will easily drop from +200 to a lesser value, negative even. The phone will think the charge is complete, since it is <80ma. THAT state becomes 100%, because the mAh get set to full capacity. Falsely.
However, this should only happen when the charge is ~90% or greater (when mv >4099). So, it may not play a huge significant role in battery time, basically missing out on 10% or so of battery life. Also, at the next recharge cycle, provided you don't fool it again, the mAh will be RESET to the more appropriate designated value.
If mAh can be set to whatever value whenever, how do we get it PROPERLY set/calibrated?
There are 2 times when mAh is automatically set. Upon draining the battery to empty (3416mv by default, 3201 preferably), when the phone shuts down, the mAh will be properly set = 0. This is good. We want mAh = 0 when mV = empty voltage.
The other time is when the battery thinks it's full, when minimum charge current is met--this is often not accurately set, not good.
If we start charging when the battery is empty, the mAh rises as the battery is charged. However, the MAXIMUM mAh needs to be watched. The mAh could be HIGHER than the programmed full mAh. Or far lower. Finding this maximum mAh, and reprogramming the battery accordingly, is the key.
Once again, when the battery hits the minimum charge current, the mAh will either jump up to the set battery capacity value (so the battery will die sooner than expected), or less commonly, drop down.
The goal is to get an accurate mAh capacity of the battery, for the voltage range between min + max, and have this set every time the battery is charged to capacity.
If we know the maximum mAh the battery reaches when charging, provided it started from 0, we want to reprogram the battery so that this value is set each time it completes charge.
There is a "learn mode" on the Nexus battery. Provided this was activated, through a series of very specific events, the battery would give itself a "battery age %". This is used to give the accurate (battery age % * full40) = true capacity. On the Nexus, the default battery age was 94%. So, mAh was set at every full charge to 94% of the full40 capacity. Obviously, this is not true for every battery forever.
Once again, why errors can and do occur:
mAh and mV are not directly linked. If mA falls to 0, or mV is less than the cutoff empty voltage, the phone will shutdown, even if the other value is still sufficient.
1. mAh is falsely high. The battery won't last as long as we think it will. Battery % is falsely high. Phone won't get to 0%.
2. mAh is falsely low. The voltage is adequate, but the mAh isn't correct. The battery % is falsely low. Phone gets to 0% too quickly. Perceived loss of battery life duration.
Why use mAh at all? Seems like mV is the only important thing?
I don't know. Why is mAh capacity important in telling the phone to shutdown? Someone enlighten me.
I think one reason is that voltage can and does fluctuate up. So using this to calculate battery % life would be extremely erratic and confusing.
What does this teach us, overall?
I'd have thought there would be much better technology built into battery calibration. Seriously. This is one big mess of poor design.
This is a bunch of technical mumbo jumbo. How does this help me?
On the N1, you can give yourself more battery life!
1. Set your 'empty voltage' lower
2. Set your minimum charge current lower
3. Calibrate the maximum mAh to a higher value to accomodate the new 'empty voltage' and 'minimum charge current' values
4. Don't play with the phone too much when it is >90% charging or it will prematurely end its charge cycle, give you a falsely higher charge %, resulting in the battery dying before you think it should.
5. Profit.
(On an extended 3200mAh battery from Seideo, after lowering the empty voltage and minimum charge current, I found >3900mAh (!) as my new maximum mAh. That's a heck of a lot of free juice).
On other phones? I'm hoping real programmers here can figure out how to do the same.
So, for the Nexus One, there is ABSOLUTELY NO correlation between battery calibration and the battery stats file. NONE. The values on the battery chip determine everything.
So, please comment on how battery calibration tech has changed over the past 2 Nexus generations. If it has.
ADDENDUM:
RogerPodacter, the xda guru/user who was instrumental in creating the N1 battery calibration app, has been looking into the GNex battery quite intently.
I just stumbled across some useful info about our battery fuel gauge from the sgs2 forum. Basically the result is there is not much we can do with our fuel gauge. But they do talk about how to truly calibrate it. And they discuss the improved version max17042 which is used on tbe sgs2 and has all the bells and whistles.
Heres the topic.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1312273
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(If you found this info useful, please click the THANKS button!)
Somebody is looking at this already. That same somebody who made the nexus one battery app. This chip doesnt supply amperage either. After i told him my battery seems to only charge to about 4.15v and that on discharging/charging my voltage is everwhere so it is hard to ascertain how accurate my % is. He finally got a chance to look over some stuff and we both think the nexus only allows charging to 4.15v. And. I think the battery shutdowns at 3.6v this go around. From initial observation he led me to believe everyrhing seems to be fine and we might not be able to do much. He might be able to get 4.2v and 3.4v for the voltage cycle. This is partly my speculation but we did agree that samsung may have done this intentionally for longevity of the battery. We will have to wait and see because he is still tinkering with his phone and deciding how to initially proceed. Might be a few days though. I am getting the extended battery soon so i would like to see what changes there are from the 250mah difference.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
To gleam is to shine or sparkle... to glean is to learn or become knowledgeable about.
FrayAdjacent said:
To gleam is to shine or sparkle... to glean is to learn or become knowledgeable about.
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..wow, just wow.
To the OP thank you for all this compiled information.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
FrayAdjacent said:
To gleam is to shine or sparkle... to glean is to learn or become knowledgeable about.
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I thought the same thing but possible typo. N and m are next to each other. But if op ends up giving us something tangible positively foe the nexus he will have gleamed. Lol.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Agggh. I suppose gleam could be appropriate here. But yes, glean was the original intent.
Due to my grammar OCD-ness, it has been edited. =P
@rbiter said:
Somebody is looking at this already. That same somebody who made the nexus one battery app. This chip doesnt supply amperage either. After i told him my battery seems to only charge to about 4.15v and that on discharging/charging my voltage is everwhere so it is hard to ascertain how accurate my % is. He finally got a chance to look over some stuff and we both think the nexus only allows charging to 4.15v. And. I think the battery shutdowns at 3.6v this go around. From initial observation he led me to believe everyrhing seems to be fine and we might not be able to do much. He might be able to get 4.2v and 3.4v for the voltage cycle. This is partly my speculation but we did agree that samsung may have done this intentionally for longevity of the battery. We will have to wait and see because he is still tinkering with his phone and deciding how to initially proceed. Might be a few days though. I am getting the extended battery soon so i would like to see what changes there are from the 250mah difference.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Great to hear! Is that on this forum or rootzwiki, or a private communication?
I have noticed that shut down is usually at 3.6 or so. I drained it completely one time with multiple reboot attempts, and I got battery monitor widget to log a 3.417 or so that ONE time, but yes, the battery prefers to quit more around 3.6.
Battery monitor widget outputs an 'estimated' mA, but that's the closest thing I could find.
Wow you brought up the nexus one battery project. I was actually the one who re-wrote that battery driver for the n1 linked in the thread in the first post. Then I wrote the apk with dvghl. I even got my altered battery driver officially merged into the cyan kernel repo for the n1.
Anyway my point is that I learned an ENORMOUS amount about how these fuel gauge chips work, specifically the ds2784 chip in the n1. The bad news is our galaxy nexus chip max17040 doesn't have all the cool features that I cracked open on the ds2784 chip. But still worth trying a few things. Specifically I'm curious what the rcomp register does in our battery driver.
Also the other bad news is our galaxy nexus max17040 cannot give current mA readings. It can only be estimated using battery monitor widget for example.
Unfortunately we don't have a learn mode or age register like we did in the n1, so we can't get too deep into the chip like we did in that project. Kinda unfortunate. Seems the max17040 only has about 7 memory registers, where the n1 ds2784 had about 30 or so registers we could hack into and tweak.
RogerP, so good to see you here! Hope my summary gave some hint as to the enormous amount of effort your project took, and the huge leap in battery charging knowledge it provided.
waylo said:
RogerP, so good to see you here! Hope my summary gave some hint as to the enormous amount of effort your project took, and the huge leap in battery charging knowledge it provided.
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Hey man, you did a near perfect job with the write up. That project was a one of a kind opportunity in the sense that the ds2784 chip, and the tech sheet and hacks we did, all lined up to be the perfect storm of what we can learn and do with these batteries. So much knowledge was extracted from that effort.
The bad news is that Samsung phones don't typically use the ds2XXX fuel gauge chips, instead they use max1704X chips. These chips use voltage to determine SOC along with their "secret" algorithm that they don't publish. In the end there isn't as much ability to do anything with our fuel gauge like we did with the n1. There are 7 registers or so, SOC, mode, volt, rcomp, but no current and no mAh. The rcomp is the one I was curious about tweaking.
This weekend I was thinking of setting up Ubuntu build environment and attempting to play arount with this new driver and see if we can learn anything more. I'm sure there are more capable devs who maybe already know about this fuel gauge cause the nexus s and other Samsung phones use similar chip. It'd be another fun project if so!
Thanks OP. Very helpful.
Glad to spread the word!
Don't forget to click the THANKS button if I helped!
thanks!! helps alot more knowledgeable now about batteries
I bought the spare battery kit that comes with an external charger. I run my battery to near empty or empty then swap it out. Do the external chargers behave the same way?
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
Very happy to see the same crew from the N1 battery calibration days on the GN. I was pretty disappointed when I got the NS and there was little discussion or attention given to the battery at such a detailed level. By the time I picked up the GN I had mostly accepted that the N1 situation and battery related dev/testing/discussion was unique in that it was both possible to tinker with and we had some dedicated fellas, especially you RP, that were willing/able to tackle the task.
As with the N1 battery testing, I'm all in to test and help whenever possible to break some ground with the GN.
This topic made me reminisce about my old N1, wish I hadn't sold it on eBay. I sold it to a Canadian, cost me a bloody fortune to ship to him bc of restrictions on amount of lithium cells/customs regulations. The guy was probably wondering if he bought it from some nut job when it arrived with like 7 batteries of many different manufacture/capacity and spare battery chargers. I half expect that US/CAN Customs put me on some kind of list when they inspected the shipment.
ellesshoo said:
As with the N1 battery testing, I'm all in to test and help whenever possible to break some ground with the GN.
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I'd also be willing to contribute to these efforts.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
deekjx said:
I bought the spare battery kit that comes with an external charger. I run my battery to near empty or empty then swap it out. Do the external chargers behave the same way?
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That's an excellent question I don't know the answer to. I'm not sure what kind of charging algorithm the external chargers would use, except to stop charging once the current reaches a certain low level.
As RogerP described above, most of the GNex battery algorithms are a mystery at this point, with some proprietary methods that won't ever be voluntarily revealed =P.
There is probably not a whole lot that can be done with the nexus battery. Yall gotta remember there was a bugnor bad programming revealed and that is why so much time was devoted to that. Roger already found that the battery stops around 4.15 volts. Changing it 4.2 will not make a big difference here and im sure it is intentional to extend charging cycles.
My grandma beat me down and took my nexus. Sent from a jitterbug with beats by dre.
well i dont think this project is "dead". i still plan to compile a kernel with a few batt driver tweaks and see if we can extract what the "rcomp" register is, what values it contains, and if we can tweak it at all. same with the "mode" register. also if you guys browse the source, there is a different driver called max10742 and it has all the extra options including "age". if only samsung had given us that one.
the other thing i want to do, or someone here could do, is map the voltage readings to the batt percentages. we did this way back in the beginning on the n1, except we mapped percentage vs mAh. but here we dont have mAh readings, only volts. what we can learn from this is if the percentage is calculated precisely from the voltage, how linear the mapping is, or if it's loosely estimated based on their modelgauge algorithm or whatever they call it at maxim.
i think it would be easy to just use battery monitor widget and export a full day's worth of your logs. maybe i'll install it and give it a shot.
I already have weeks of mv vs. batt % if you need that, specifically from battery monitor widget.
Graph 1: All data from the start. 5000 data points.
Graph 2: ~600 data points, starting from after I ran the battery down to 0 completely, plugged in with phone off, and charged to 100%.
Not sure why all the data gives 2 distinctly different patterns. The lower data plots seems more favorable, with higher % at lower mV.
Hi guys,
Today I've installed battery monitor app and saw that at full charge with the charger connector still attached I have a voltage above 4300mV. I know that Li-Ion are very stressed above 4200mV and this shortens the battery life a great deal (you are left with only 1/3 of the battery endurance that you would normally have). Do you think lg made this purposely so we would have a little more juice with the downside of a quick degradation of battery performance? Thanks
cojocar.andrei said:
Hi guys,
Today I've installed battery monitor app and saw that at full charge with the charger connector still attached I have a voltage above 4300mV. I know that Li-Ion are very stressed above 4200mV and this shortens the battery life a great deal (you are left with only 1/3 of the battery endurance that you would normally have). Do you think lg made this purposely so we would have a little more juice with the downside of a quick degradation of battery performance? Thanks
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The battery is a 4600 mAh. Does the number not directly corelate?
sleekmason said:
The battery is a 4600 mAh. Does the number not directly corelate?
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voltage (mV) is different from amperage (mAh)
think of electricity as a waterfall
voltage = height of the waterfall, how much potential energy a water droplet has
amperage = how much water is actually falling per second
anyways, those apps might not be accurate. also, battery charging has some profile/curve. 4.3V isn't particularly bad
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries
http://batteryuniversity.com/_img/content/ion2.jpg
I have another question. How long does your battery last? I'm on mahdi 2.8 with redkernel v9 and from 92% to 10% I only have 5h-6h screen on time with only browsing… Discharge rate measured with battery monitor is between 600mA and 1000mA. It seems an awfully short time. Others report more than 10h on a full charge… How's your battery life? Thanks
cojocar.andrei said:
I have another question. How long does your battery last? I'm on mahdi 2.8 with redkernel v9 and from 92% to 10% I only have 5h-6h screen on time with only browsing… Discharge rate measured with battery monitor is between 600mA and 1000mA. It seems an awfully short time. Others report more than 10h on a full charge… How's your battery life? Thanks
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Six hours is the most I have ever seen on both of my Gpad tablets. I have not noticed much difference between any ROM or kernel. I have never seen anything close to 10 hours on the Gpad.
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I improved the battery a bit by undervolting (324Mhz -> 700mV, 1242Mhz->925mV) , reducing the freq of the cpu to 1242Mhz and reducing the gpu freq to 320Mhz. I gain 1h with these changes (I‘m only using the tablet for browsing/reading). I would buy a cover with a slot for an external battery but I didn't find one…
cojocar.andrei said:
I improved the battery a bit by undervolting (324Mhz -> 700mV, 1242Mhz->925mV) , reducing the freq of the cpu to 1242Mhz and reducing the gpu freq to 320Mhz. I gain 1h with these changes (I‘m only using the tablet for browsing/reading). I would buy a cover with a slot for an external battery but I didn't find one…
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I am experimenting with my two Gpad's. I currently have both set up wit Mahdi ROM and Mani kernel. I have one underclocked both cpu and gpu. The other has stock settings. Interested in seeing how much difference it makes. I am not expecting much because the screen eats up most of the battery.
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mani kernel gave me sdcard unexpected unmounts while writing to sd and putting the tablet to sleep
Under clocking the cpu and gpu and under volting the cpu gained about 90 minutes of screen on time, but it was not worth the cost in performance… which was especially noticeable when switching between apps. The main reason for using a custom kernel (red kernel or mani) is to improve performance...not cripple it.
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