Related
SPB Clone is a fine bit of software. It makes a full ghost copy of your BA that you can reinstall after a hard reset - all the registry settings, installed software. etc.
The demo version is fully working but after installing via a clone you get a nag screen that continually pops up to remind you to buy the software.
Because I was so impressed with SPB Clone, I wrote to SPB to ask them if they could provide me with a single user licence at a less painful price, since the PDA I was cloning was actually my phone, and I'm not a big company with many PDAs. They told me that, sadly, SPB Clone was only available on an enterprise licence but then they told me how to remove the nag screen....
1. Open the folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer.
2. Tap and Hold and select View All Files.
3. Select bootupdt.exe and select Cut from context menu.
4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap and hold on the empty space within folder view. Select Paste from context menu.
5. Soft reset.
6. Remove bootupdt.exe from the root folder.
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
@tintoy: Generosity? I consider this being spam. Nobody wants new posts about "I now know how to reboot!" or "My how-to: Plugging USB cable in". I would accept those kinda posts if he'd just tell about product X, which is cheaper than Y but has same or more features like A, B, C. Only hassle you have to solve is to remove [filename] from autostart.
Chatty said:
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a firm believer in freedom of information.
SPB gave me this information because I am a single user.
I have provided this information to other single users.
If an unscrupulous company wishes to use unlicensed software, possibly risking prosecution, that's their remit, not mine.
madcapmagician said:
Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, your're starting to get insulting. That's why I'll answer the last time to this thread.
madcapmagician said:
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat. Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum. And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Farcical. No comment.
madcapmagician said:
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you stepped over the line. If you ain't got no further arguments (if there has been at least one already) you start to insult people. That will make you look respectable, indeed. Although English is not my mother tongue I do speak more than one language. How many do you speak? (Not that I'm really interested.)
Chatty said:
Ok, your're starting to get insulting.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your original post was both rude and insulting, hence my reply.
This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How so? Do you not bring your manners to a forum? You are, in effect, saying that because you cannot see your fellow forumers face-to-face you feel you do not have to be polite to them.....and you then get upset when they are impolite back to you.
Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do you assume I didn't? Again, you are being insulting. I scoured the web to find the answer, like most other noobs would do. From the way you wrote, I got the impression you are very IT-literate - well, I am not and there are many others like me. My post is for them.
And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then I suggest you re-read your first post: in your head, when you typed it, it may have sounded witty and polite and to-the-point; that is not how it came across. If you felt my description was at fault, you should have said so, rather than making rude, tangential comments.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to reiterate the point.
Here you stepped over the line.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, although in my head, when I typed it, it was quid pro quo.
I will publicly apologise here and now for being rude.
Please understand that there is nothing berating in this post - I am merely trying to articulate myself without you being able to physically hear my voice.
madcapmagician said:
Hey guys, I know a way that you can get the hard work of dozens of developers for free. Heck they gave it to me, and so it is implied that they want me to share it with the entire internet. Aren't I morally and ethically bankrupt?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are.
Chatty said:
There is this tire change sticker in my car that is driving me batty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm, interesting
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Chatty said:
Generosity? Huh...spam. X, Y, uh A, B, C, Marco, polo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exsqueezeme
madcapmagician said:
Everyone marvel at my use of polysyllabic word play. I am the master of the keyboard. Chatty, my swing thing is bigger than yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
madcapmagician again said:
I am a firm believer in freedom of unscrupulousness. It was granted to us in the 18th ammendment to the Constitution. SPB gave me the information because I am single minded and they have no desire to make money. They are actually just out to provide a community service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, excellent points, all of them!
Chatty Cathy said:
Actually my swing thing is bigger. And I speak multiple languages, just not very well. A donde esta la casa de pepe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stunning!
madcapmagician said:
Why are you rude to me just because I was rude to you? Don't you understand the consequences of disturbing the molecular dismobilization of the antisymmetric wave function? Egad man. Let me cut loose some more words from my Microsoft Word thesaurus...prostrate, genuflecting, forumers (huh?), tangential, exoskeletal, plebiscite. Take that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you guys know how tired the rest of us are of this kind of non-productive grade school banter? I am waiting for the "your momma" insults to start any minute. Can someone please delete this thread.
The original post in this thread was a useful piece of information on how to remove the nag screen on a piece of software.
It was not a "How-to" on rebooting or plugging in a USB cable, and i am sure that anyone who wants to use the SPB Clone would be grateful for this information.
The fact that you either didnt understand what the post was about or didnt care doesnt mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread. Trading insults back and forth is the biggest spam anyone could expect to see in a forum, especially this one, which provides so much good information to those of us who use these devices.
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
cw6447 said:
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you on the ethics of "stealing" software, my main complaint here was the instant flaming that madcapmagician received after posting, that is not what this community is about. he was not posting a "how-to" on the process of rebooting, he was relaying the information given to him as he received it, i think that the information can be used by those who are ok with "stealing" software and those who disagree can just disregard the information. If the mods decide that the information shouldnt be here they have the power to remove it.
Forgive me for carrying on with this ridiculous and pointless conversation but is it not in fact illegal to unlock contract mobile phones? Would the cellular providers be happy for 1000's of people to remove their branding and software from devices which they have sold? If the software company had not wanted to help the individual then they would not have told him to start with. I am sure that nobody is so special that a software company would whisper information into his ear that they didn't want to be made common knowledge.
This is a tech support forum, it has helped me as well as many, many other people. If you want to start talking about wrong, immoral, illegal or any other description you may have then start looking at what other people are doing.
I appreciate this forum, and it's members. For crying out loud, stop arguing and get on with the job in hand.
Zylo, I agree with you in one regard. The post is perfectly legit insomuch as it is helpful and technically related. But only for people without a conscience. Bret, you are symptomatic of this new generation of kids with no personal accountability in life. To pretend that you can guess that a software company doesn't mind you giving away their software for free is ludicrous. madcap probably got ahold of some sales guy who thought it would be nice to do him a favor. Do you think the owners, investors or developers would have told him to feel free to post it on forums around the internet? Why not take that info and sell it for a profit on eBay? Or better yet why not just sell the software as your own? If they were giving you a free copy then they wouldn't mind you doing whatever you want with it. Right? You see, you keep blurring the lines of common decency to the point where eventually anything goes. You won't understand until someday you actually become a responsible citizen, start your own business, and put your hard-earned money and time out on the line. I bet when the leeches and thieves come after your product you will have a whole different attitude. The "right thing" to do in this case is so easy and obvious. I fear for a world where people can't make that distinction.
Sorry if what i said came across as a flaming. It was not intended as such. I'm just aware that softweare companies have many employees, from designers to developers to marketing people to managers. Of all these people the ones who seeme to have the most alturistitc (read non commercially-minded) approach always seem to be the developers. They are typically just concerned with writing good software and makng it work. If you asked a developer for a free copy of his/her software for 'testing' they'd probally give it to you without complaint! If, however, you asked them if they'd like their contract to end at the end of its term becuase you were going to make the software they wrote completly unprofitable by telling everyone how to get it for free they might be slightly less generous!
Your points have been taken on board but for the record, I work for a small, local mobile phone dealer. How much business do you think we lose from people unlocking phones, and therefore not returning to us?
I'm not saying that is right or wrong but what I am saying is that it is illegal. It is stealing from the provider and taking profits away from independant dealers. Also, how are you to know that my own business did not fail due to non-payers? You obviously open your mouth before engaging your brain. I could not recover the debts owed to my company and it resulted in the business closing. Is that not also theft?
If you want to target anyone go for the real criminals who sell ripped off software and DVD's on the Sunday markets. They are the real problem, not one guy who has made a very small post who has admitted to have lttle understanding of what he has done. I'm sure you have now all alienated him so he will never return to this site again.
Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.
Yeah. Can we consider this conversation over?
Please don't be offended by my posts @madcapmagician, I was just making a point, not trying to demonise you! I would imagine there is even a fairly decent discsussion that could be had about what consitutes ripping off software and what consitutes fair use...
I found my original e-mail and SPB’s reply:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerzy Bulowski
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:01 pm
To: [email protected]
Subject: Clone
Dear Sir or Madam,
I recently downloaded your demo of Clone and have to say that, already, it has served me well after my phone required a hard reset the other day.
I was so impressed that I decided to purchase a copy but was absolutely horrified to see the price of $199. Whilst I can appreciate that Clone is suited to large businesses with many corporate PDAs, I am a single user - the PDA in question is actually my HTC Blue Angel mobile phone - and I was wondering whether you could sell me a single-licence version for a price more similar to what you charge for Pocket Plus?
If this is not possible could you tell me how long the annoying reminder screen will continue to pop up on my phone?
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jerzy Bulowski
Hello Jerzy,
Spb Clone is enterprise product and there's not any "single user" licenses.
How to remove the nag screen in your case:
1. Open folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer. 2. Tap and Hold and select View All files. 3. Select bootupd.exe and select Cut from context menu. 4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap-n-hold on the empty space within folder view. Select "Paste" from context menu. 5. Soft reset. 6. Remove bootupd.exe from the root folder.
Best regards,
Alexander Shalin
Customer Support Team
Spb Software House
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.spbsoftwarehouse.com
Phone: +7 812 324 49 44
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bret, perhaps I should point out that you can download SPB Clone for free from their website, as a demo version. Corporate customers, if they liked it, would then buy a licensed copy for $199.00 – I have “stolen” nothing.
Chris - As far as the ethics of posting said information in the public domain are concerned, my conscience is clear. This information is for single users, like myself. If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine.
Tintoy – I’m not offended. It was Chatty’s immediate, condescending, demeaning post that riled me. Zylograth said what I should have, instead of replying as I did:
The fact that you either didn’t understand what the post was about or didn’t care doesn’t mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that’s that!
AFAIK I think it's still open to debate whether we discuss cracking. I'm happy to talk about cracking, but not cracks.
Odeean makes a good point that cracking and reversing is part of the education of programming; if you're a commercial developer, or would be one, it's worth knowing weaknesses and pitfalls.
People shouldn't come on here and say "wantttt - crack for thai-g" etc. That's just silly and damn lazy. If you don't know how to get warez, you should be using a Motorola, not even a Nokia. But you should be rewarding programmers, or you should understand when there aren't programmers left to program because they've all gone broke. (And I'm not just talking about cash.. we don't all program for the $$)
But if you want to learn how to crack thai-g, search, ask nicely, or learn and tell. But don't distribute cracks (at least publically). There are other boards for that, and we have enough trouble keeping this board clean enough now-a-days
V
Take it like a man!
Madcap, my almost 3-year old daughter tries to make equally bad logic when I have caught her sneaking a cookie before supper. If you were in court you would be your own worst enemy. The email from spb said "How to remove the nag screen in YOUR case". Not "in your case and EVERY other person you can broadcast it to". Show me where he added, "And please feel free to share this with other single users". ONCE AGAIN, if they did not expressly permit you to give this to other people then it is just plain wrong! No, not illegal...it's the spb CSR's ignorant fault for giving it out to you. Let's say you are standing behind a guy in line at the QuickTrip. You witness the cashier ring up his order, but forget to ring up his Snickers bar. When the customer makes the cashier aware of the error, the cashier says,"Oh that's ok, just go ahead and take it." Does that then give you the right to grab a Snickers bar and put it in your pocket without paying for it? If one person got a freebie then everyone should get it, right? How long do you think QuickTrip will survive giving away it's products? It really isn't any different. Software is intangible property that should be treated as tangible. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should. It is just like all of the thieves who thought downloading music they did not pay for was OK. It wasn't...still isn't...never will be.
As for your equally weak argument of, "If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Let's take the same QuickTrip. While you are at the counter paying for your snacks (except for the Snickers bar tucked into your pocket), you oversee another employee opening the safe behind the counter. Because of your excellent eyesight and brilliant mind, you see and remember the combination. When you get home you go out to the SafesAndVaultsDevelopers.com forums and post about the dummy at QuickTrip opening up the safe right in front of everyone. You also post the combination to the safe because "if an unscrupulous person wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Great logic. I wish I could send you to time-out like I can my daughter.
Try this. Reply back to spb. Tell that same Customer Service Rep that you are posting this hack on all of the popular PDA sites on the internet. And copy the support group at spb, too. After they respond to you, post their letter back here. I will be waiting to see the response.
Now I know you would never have posted the above spb info on a site where you thought "unscrupulous" people could visit and get hold of it. I mean, what jerk in their right mind would do that to a company and possibly expose them to real dollar losses? So since you know everyone here is trustworthy, why don't you go ahead and post your email account password, your xda forum password, and the PIN to your ATM account on here. Throw in your momma's phone number for grins. We won't do anything bad with it.
Am I going off on you? Yes. When someone tries to make a clearly black and white argument grey, and aggressively attempts to defend that indefensible position over and again, they deserve to be called out. Take it like a man.
In light of what I considered to be a couple of very disturbing developments, I think at this point, a dialogue/debate needs to be opened on what rights/copyrights a contributor has on the intellectual material he/she posts here.
Sakajati was abruptly censored when he suggested that future roms may be administered through a tool bar and not administered through this site.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3288089&postcount=10332
And the way that BeyondInvisible was driven off this site by the " takers " and not supported by this site. ( the people that stole his new pay/per icons and published them for free, should have been banned). http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2798052#post2798052 because he dared suggest that it might be time for all the takers to pony up.
When your work becomes widely successful ala; olinex, jockyw, sakajati, MobileMatt, JCKOTZE, Schap, in the kaiser forums, at what point does toiling around in poverty while you work hard for others for free, become less attractive than selling your work?
Who now owns your work , you, XDA, is it copyrighted? When you decide to take it private what ownership rights does XDA retain?
If you request that XDA remove your work, can they leave an archive of it?
I love this site it is the greatest resource on the net for PDA's but I think these subjects could use a good going over by the Mods and the membership.
Dennis
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM... ask any Mod, we all get the emails. The action I took (editing the toolbar links) is the most benign available to Moderators. I could have closed the thread, and moved it to a Mod-only section while the investigation/discussion took place. Instead, I opted to merely edit out the download links.
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
Now while a decision has not yet been made, I can confidently say that if SJ had promoted his toolbar as a tool to help all users of his ROMs get the latest "breaking" new on development, and NOT required it in order to obtain the password required for flashing, then we [most likely] would have allowed the toolbar to stay linked on XDA.
I think part of the problem here is that many seem to think that they are entitled to what the chefs produce for nothing. The hours spent porting and testing should count for something but for many it is just expected. I for one have no problem contributing what I can when I'm able. It is too bad that more don't do this.
Kirby
Intellectual property laws protect the inventor/creator rights of ownership to their intellectual property in cyber media. So there is no fear but a concern for any coder that his or her work marketing could be abused or it could be stolen. That is the risk one takes without his or her choice when they share their creations with others.
I also read XDA rules, and it clearly states that soliciting anything for money is prohibited. many cooks are on the border line of asking for money rather encouraging donation for sharing the fruit of their work with others. I do not have a problem with that and believe the majority here share my sentiment. I have a problem however with someone begging for donation without any substantiating efforts, invention or creation to merit the donation solicitation. That being said, I believe SJ was a true gentleman in all of his posts and never infringed on callus donation request; having a tool bar that he feels if XDA was out ( and it was out few times in the past month) as an optional site but not alternative support site that can be accessed where members can help each other is not a bad idea.
We seem to forget sometimes that XDA site was created to help one developer another achieve excellence in the field of e-communication.
so again, I have no problem with SJ promoting his tool bar as long as it is not used to ransom donation for solving issues and i am sure like I said earlier, this is NOT SJ's intention.
NotATreoFan said:
Removing SJ's toolbar was NOT censorship, regardless of how you're trying to spin it. We received several complaints from users who don't feel comfortable being required to install a toolbar just to use their favorite ROM...
There is no justification for requiring users to install a toolbar into Internet Explorer (or any other browser in the Windows environment) just so they can have access to a Chef's ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
JimmyMcGee said:
Your opinion is respected. But the appearance was that he WAS requiring people to use the Toolbar to get the Password for the ROM.
Sakajati can do what ever he wants with his ROM, if he chooses to require the Toolbar, that's his choice. If XDA, the people who maintain and provide some presence for his ROM here say that's not in the spirit of the community, then he can release the ROMs on his website soley.
Basically you have to follow certain rules to post your stuff on SourceForge, so think of at as the same thing.
You seem to be the only one with a problem. sakajati is a great guy and is being cooperative in the investigation.
There is written law and common law. This falls more into to "Common Law" area, which is why I said it was a Grey area.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
denco7 said:
That was one of my major points, there " was " no requirement . because there " was no rom ". You struck preemptively to something that had not happened yet, because it might happen in the future. You squashed his right to promote a private project , as many many people do here, because a few ungrateful people complained that in the future they might have to obtain the rom it SJ's way.
Had he stated that the next rom would be available only by joining his website, would you have shut him down?
My question is, at what point does a chef have the right to take his work private, and how , without any interference from this site.
Believe me, I am not trying to "spin " anything against anyone, I have a great deal of respect for you and all you have done for this forum ( we miss your input in the Kaiser world ) I just thought that it was a heavy handed response ( and yes censorship ) to something that hadn't even happened yet.
A simple PM could have alieviated the situation for the time being, while the Mods figured it out. Not a head on erase everything, assault SJ's right to promote his work and wares.
And I would say again, that the integrity of this site depends on people to share openly and honestly without fear of unjustified reprisal, SJ has said that he will not for the time being, take any new roms private. I think that is enough for all his links to be restored. If not, what other definitions of censorship do you have ?
I brought this over from the Hyperdragon thread to here, to discuss.
I just want everyone to know, this has more to do with the big picture than it has to do with sakajati. This has nothing to do with NATF or with jimmy and I am probably not the only one who has a problem with the way it was handled. I am just the one with the big mouth. And we all know that sakajati would never say a word or give anything less than his full cooperation.
I just want someone to tell me not just for SJ, but for the good of the whole community and as a precedent for future complaints of this type, why SJ couldn't have been shot a PM asking what his intentions were, and if they approached a grey area, he could have been informed and he would have cooperated. End of any problem. It is not like there was any urgency, as I said before, there was no requirement because there was no rom.
And if people did over react then it is good for everyone to get a dialogue started. That is what this site is all about.
Thanks guys for doing a great job !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Friend read this...
sakajati said:
Just uploaded the cab to download center. It will add [Slide down for call functions] feature.
*** Please all of you install my toolbar [mod edit: link removed], this is the tool that will keep you updated and you will receive alert/message via the toolbar for news and announcements regularly from me. If you're using HyperDragon ROMs, you have to install it since the next rom release will be password protected and you'll get the password only via this toolbar . No adware, spyware, crapware, underware, read the Toolbar Privacy [mod edit: link removed]for details.***
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the Green Parts. The general consensus is IF sakajati REQUIRES people to use the Toolbar to use his ROMs, he is no longer contributing to the XDA ROM Community.
sakajati is ALLOWED and not censored to require this if he so chooses. However the ramifications are, that he would no longer be allowed to advertise his ROM here.
The "common law" rule is, if you post a ROM on XDA, you are contributing to the community and the ROM shall have NO STRINGS attached. No requirement to Give Money, no requirement to have a toolbar installed.
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
But as NATF has said, no final desicsion has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
JimmyMcGee said:
If sakajati wishes to offer his toolbar as a way to stay in "constant contact" with him, then I don't see a problem. But the release of the ROM shall not be contingent on the toolbar. At least not while it is advertised on XDA.
But as NATF has said, no final decision has been made, I only type this reply to give full disclosure, to show that our intentions are not to censor.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since this has all been put to rest, I just have some final thoughts and then I'll shut up.
It was never about XDA's/Mod's disapproval as to what he intended to do, you all are entrusted with the success and smooth running of this site and have every right to administer this site as you see fit, (as I have every right to question why ) And it was not really about SJ, he was just the vehicle of my overall concern about creative people leaving this site because of real and perceived ( do it our way or get out ) disagreements.
I guess I just wanted to know, if people decided to take their projects private,such as a new rom, would they still be welcome here to support older projects or develop new projects here ( that fell within XDA guildlines ) and while supporting their projects, could they in a subtle non-commercial way, direct people to private/financially enhancing projects.
And of course I still object to the way it was handled, that sort of, " we are taking it all down until we decide " way of doing it, is something that happens to noobs that don't know any better. Not to someone who has done as much for, and contributed so much to the Kaiser community as sakajati has done.
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Oh yeah ........one more thing
And P.S. lets not get into calling ROMs Intellectual Property, because honestly, ROMs are Microsoft's I.P. All chefs do is tweak, improve and skin ROMs. And I don't mean to take anything away from chefs awesome work by saying that. So saying sakajati's ROM is his I.P. is like saying you taking you Toyota Celica, painting it Pink with Green Racing strips and boring out the engine, makes that car your I.P.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
denco7 said:
The Mods always preach, " if you have a dispute with another member, take it to PM, " Unfortunately this great advise wasn't followed, and I am glad that SJ was not offended by this and did not pack up his toys and go home ( like unfortunately other members have done )
And I am sorry if " I " have offended anyone, that was not my intention. I love this site and think that discussions like this benefit the longevity of this site. I am glad everything has been resolved and I will shut up and go away now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not an issue of personal disagreement, it is a violation of our rules of operation. When we see questionable activity, we will always take the action of stopping the activity, contacting the OP, and trying to resolve it quickly. I am sure SJ understands this as well as anyone here that it was nothing personal, and simply just S.O.P. around here. It's a lot easier to take down a problem for a couple days, and then let it back up with an apology than it is to remove it after we've debated.
As for you question about prior contributions, of course anyone is welcome to support anything that they have and continue to offer that is in compliance with our rules here. Nothing even stops a user from selling some stuff, and giving others away. It's just that they can't post the stuff they're selling here, just the donation ware.
IP
I have just a couple points. The Phoenix team has a separate website we use for tracking bugs and other discussion so we don't clutter up this site. However our intent is to foster creativity, open communication and cooperation among users and chefs which we hope results in better products for the users of this site. So don't always think a private website like ours or SJ's is a bad thing.
However, I would like to point out what was only stated one time in the thread--the guts of these roms are the ip of microsoft and htc. Now as chef's we find other bits and pieces that are added--and these are the ip of their creators. Sometimes we contribute our own ip--like skins, icons and very specific know how to get the roms to help our devices perform at peak efficiency. But anyone who would try to take a rom private and sell it, would have some major issues without first getting license to do so from MS, HTC and those other people who own the other intellectual property.
There are many examples of apps that were developed by talented people here that have gone commercial. Those apps are still discussed and linked to here because they all have trial periods. There is nothing wrong with commercializing your own ip..The wrong comes when you commercialize ip that you don't own or haven't properly license.
So let's continue a great tradition of creativity. I believe that this site is the primary reason that HTC and microsoft keep trying to make a better operating system. This site is where many ideas come from. This site gives the OS life beyond the normal experience.
denco7 said:
(snip)
Oh yeah ........one more thing
Tell that to Chip Foose and Orange County Choppers. They take other people's parts, design and tweak and create masterpieces worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Your telling me a Foose Design isn't intellectual property?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pfft Those Posers
some confused thinking here -
A cook can ask for a contribution for his time but there is no way he can claim that a cooked rom is his IPR because it's belongs to someone else start with - no licence to modify has been granted!
Now creating programs from scratch, that's a different issue and how they want to deal with payment is upto them.
my theory is whoever created the forum and then got ppl to volounter to mantain it
ITS THERE FORUM
Its really up to them what they want to do
XDAsite: Please Stop Using the Word "FORA"- It's Ridiculous, Forced, NON-User-Centric
I just saw the post on the Portal Page reminding people about some rules of the site. That was good. However, in the midst of that good message was nomenclature that needs to be retired because it has long since fallen out of common usage all over the world. Please -- The site has finally modernized, can we please kick to the curb the silly, academic use of the word "FORA" and get real?
=========
Following in my grand tradition of my occasional ridiculous commentry at XDA, let me add this one:
In high school growing up, I tool two years of Latin language, so I am perfectly clear about the tecnically correct singular form of the word FORUM and the technically correct pluralized form of this LATIN term, FORA. Let me just add that I think it is patently ridiculous for anyone in the year 2010 to continue to buck the trend of ordinary people who have rejected that academic technicality long ago, and to just call it what it is: FORUMS.
Nobody but ridiculous academics uses the term FORA... Honestly, just think about it... It sounds more like the friendly bacterial flora in your digestive track that help break down foods and prevent you from having flatulence -- than it sounds like the natural sound for "our mutliple forums".
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Must we use such academic terms?
The whole point of "TOUCHSCREENS 2.0" -- was to bow to the USABILITY DESIGN principles of user-centric design. XDA-developers.com would still be using its old forum design, would still be rejecting Samsung, would still be rejecting Motorola, and Sony Erricson, and lastly would still be rejecting the iphone, if it maintained its head-in-the-sand approach of "we are who we are, if you want to play in our backyard, shut up, read the rules, read the FAQa, don't ask stupid questiosn, and wait a year before ever posting" -- which is the mentality that such regimented thinking like "Fora" comes from, in my view.
But wisely, the new site owners saw, correctly, the SEA-CHANGE of the industry that began when the iPhone's unquestionably superior FINGER-NAVIGABLE touchscreen interface put WM's tired old little 6-point checkbox interface you need to hit with a stylus to shame --- transforming the industry overnight. Sure, we could rightly complain about the lockdown system of the iphone and all it lacked -- a LOT -- and focus and hail the openness of WM and its accessibilty to DEVS to create the magic XDA-developers built its reputation on... But the fact is, the iPhone WOKE UP the industry -- and not a moment too soon.
It was RIDICULOUS to have to have the WM phone 6-8 inches away and have a stylus chained to your device in order to place a phone call or add a contact. HTC took cues immediately and for the next few years SAVED Microsoft's sweet ass by introducing TOUCH-FLO and doing all the UI layer changes that Microsoft (dumbass Ballmer) stubbornly refused to do because they were so ****-sure they were the leaders and no one could dethrone them.
Yeah. Until they were dethroned. Then they lost two whole years of selling as they faded from marketplace relevance. And I'm suggesting that that is what obsolescent and calcified thinking PRODUCES. Just carrying on old thinking processes because -- either (a) we've always done it that way, or (b) "we know best, we're in charge". Both are wrong and lead to consumer revolt.
Let's drop this ridiculous "FORA" usage. No one in the mainstream uses it, because it's ridiculous. Sure, you can find it at http://FORA.tv -- a fantastic service -- but that's their BRAND name, it's not their nomenclature for their forum structure. Say what you will, call them dumb, cal them uneducated, big deal: but the international consumer marketplace doesn't care one bit about Latin plurality rules. Nor should you, nor should we. Give it up and join the 21st century, please.
THE REST OF THE XDA SITE HAS. They modernized. They finally took queus from the world that had been passing them buy -- and modernized -- and in a short time -- way less than a year -- completely upgraded XDA with a smart portal news page, tied to twitter, etc. (great job svetius and writing team!)
And so to cling to that bygone era artifact seems silly. Dump it, and just get practical please. It's user-centric design. Users hate fora. Fora is silly. They use the word Forums. So should this site.
Thank you for your consideration!
Love,
quicksite
Wow, you seriously got some spare time. I've rarely seen such a long explanation and deliberation for such a simple and easy concern.
Becksman said:
Wow, you seriously got some spare time. I've rarely seen such a long explanation and deliberation for such a simple and easy concern.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, and your point is what?
My profession is Usability design -- so it';s my profession -- not my spare time.
The difference between most people is this:
I have no interest in simply registering an opinion. That's what 99% of the world does in 140 twitter culture. I'm a chnage agent, That means if I take the time to write, it means I want it changed, I'm not merely flapping my gums.
Thanks for playing though.
Why does it matter how people want to refer to it? Stop caring.
Sent from my Epic 4g
Zeinzu said:
Why does it matter how people want to refer to it? Stop caring.
Sent from my Epic 4g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stop replying. Unsubscribe. Please go to games section or free downloads.
I second this.
I'm Brazilian, and "fora" means "out" for me =P
I guess all Internet users are used to the term "forums". In addition, in Portuguese, the plural of "fórum" (forum in English) is "fóruns" (we only use "m" before "p" or "b")
quicksite said:
Yeah, and your point is what?
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point was, that you spend a lot of time cross-referencing to other areas where "progress" was made and the game changed, instead of focussing on reasons why the word "fora" is so "ridiculous, forced and NON-user-centric". I missed the development of the wheel though.
I get your point but I think you're way overexaggerating. Windows mobile would not have lost its market lead to the iPhone (or to Android now) if the only difference would have been the word "fora" on one device's display and "forums" on the others.
Cheers
(Now off to games and ringtones fora)
Holy Sh.. that's some free time o.0
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Hi quicksite,
I just finished going over your opening post and truth be told, I see no problem whatsoever with the use of that term. Does it matter that the term is old? A big part of the English language has, as you correctly pointed out, Latin roots, which are old in the first place. The word is perfectly valid as it is, according to the following sites:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fora
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1248326#m_en_us1248326
http://www.britannica.com/bps/dictionary?query=fora
By contrast, your example was pulled out of Wikipedia. Truth be told, if I knew that the term was invalid or outdated, I would have edited the article before it was published. However, this is not the case. It isn't a matter of being old fashioned, conservative, reluctant to change, or anything like that. My writer used a term, which is accepted by all three world standards of the English language (above), and as such I have no problem with that. Likewise, if my writer would have used the word "forums", I would have still accepted it because it is also an acceptable term. Some people may not like the sound of it as you claim, but likewise, you will have people who think that the use of the word forums is not right, or simply doesn't sound right.
As far as your example of "Juiz de Fora", I am sorry but I fail to see how that is relevant to anything. The term is in Portuguese and it is the name of a city. As the member before me pointed out, the term fora means "outside" in Portuguese, but considering that the term we are looking at is in English, it is completely irrelevant.
Last but not least, the whole "iPhone revolutionizing the world" argument... not sure why you used that example as it is a little far fetched (conveys your point, but there are better analogies).
Please don't take this as an attack or anything like that. I am in charge of anything that goes in the Portal (as I edit every article), and because of that, I thought it would be best for me to explain this.
+1 on this ez
egzthunder1 said:
Hi quicksite,
I just finished going over your opening post and truth be told, I see no problem whatsoever with the use of that term. Does it matter that the term is old? A big part of the English language has, as you correctly pointed out, Latin roots, which are old in the first place. The word is perfectly valid as it is, according to the following sites:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fora
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1248326#m_en_us1248326
http://www.britannica.com/bps/dictionary?query=fora
By contrast, your example was pulled out of Wikipedia. Truth be told, if I knew that the term was invalid or outdated, I would have edited the article before it was published. However, this is not the case. It isn't a matter of being old fashioned, conservative, reluctant to change, or anything like that. My writer used a term, which is accepted by all three world standards of the English language (above), and as such I have no problem with that. Likewise, if my writer would have used the word "forums", I would have still accepted it because it is also an acceptable term. Some people may not like the sound of it as you claim, but likewise, you will have people who think that the use of the word forums is not right, or simply doesn't sound right.
As far as your example of "Juiz de Fora", I am sorry but I fail to see how that is relevant to anything. The term is in Portuguese and it is the name of a city. As the member before me pointed out, the term fora means "outside" in Portuguese, but considering that the term we are looking at is in English, it is completely irrelevant.
Last but not least, the whole "iPhone revolutionizing the world" argument... not sure why you used that example as it is a little far fetched (conveys your point, but there are better analogies).
Please don't take this as an attack or anything like that. I am in charge of anything that goes in the Portal (as I edit every article), and because of that, I thought it would be best for me to explain this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
I almost forgot to add this. Under your arguments, words and expressions like laughing or "I will be back shortly" would be replaced by LOL and BRB, simply because they are more mainstream. Soon after that, you would have people asking for "cheezeburgerz".
Lol have to agree with Ez.
I'd put this down to too much time on your hands... maybe could be put to better use since XDA is a *development* Fora
Captainkrtek said:
Holy Sh.. that's some free time o.0
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As usual, all respondents are 2009/2010 -- have almost no sense of XDA culture other than gimme gimme gimme now, 140 tapatalk gotta go, life on the run
send from my implant device
Captainkrtek said:
Last but not least, the whole "iPhone revolutionizing the world" argument... not sure why you used that example as it is a little far fetched (conveys your point, but there are better analogies).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it makes perfect sense for those not "on the run with 140 character-count lifedrives"
Quite simply: XDA-devs was founded upon an HTC phone running WM; WM was the prevailing OS for long time; the bulk of the work here for years was focused on things like hard spl and getting hardware and software to do things never intended by the manufacturer -- which made the site great, gave it its reputation, and things churned along. ... Then the iphone came and changed a paradigm. A lot of resistence felt here on this site to the very idea of the iphone, but its influence was undeniable. It was fought and ignored tooth and nail by Ballmer and his old school thinkers tied to the past. Until they were swept in the destbin of history and a new model swept the world with finger-driven interfaces, hardware changes + OTA app store concept which overnight made -- for the mainstream, not the tinkerers at XDA -- WM 6.1 and 6.5 an obsolete concept for app-dev ...
The whole industry shifted around this new model -- and eventually that gravitational force was so strong even old fashioned "We liked out yellow skin" XDA-devs stepped up to the plate, threw out the old, and joined the new --- with a new front page way closer to engadget than old XDA would even have ever dreamed of allowing.
There is nothing obtuse about that analogy at al except for someone purposely being obtuse. It means -- dropping old relics and getting with the times. Nobody is saying "the word isn;t used in the english langauge" -- did I say that? No. I say mainstream. Just as XDA-devs has clearly revamped to appeal more to mainstream and if you doubt that, go have a coffee or beer with svetius, or take a look at that sister site.
I'm not looking for a fight either. I'm just making a strong advocacy point, and i don't like ha;lf-stepping it. There are always going to be little peanut gallery voices who have generally nothing to add other than mockery like "hah hah too much time on hands" like that really refutes or affirms anything. Might as well not post at all. These are just general forums after all . Look how silly it would look if I had said. These are just general fora afterall. People can post what they like.
But it seems rather juvenile and meaningless to bother to post to a thread where you have nothing to add... If anyone has too much time on their hands its someone who posts absolutely nothing of any value, just dittos, and more dittos, just tapping away from tapatalk, because it's so important you see to comment on how stupid the whole topic is. because then you see how smart they are and how ridiculous the poster is.
I think you're pretty silly to post about something you find a waste of time. They do studies about people like that.
But finally, regarding editorial style guides, Okay, I'm all for that. Then would you please, as of today, help make the site editorially consistent, applying your style guide: Here are some places you can start. Oh, it's the portal page, well that's easy, it's under your domain! Happy trails one and all !
Stirring Up ****e!
quicksite said:
As usual, all respondents are 2009/2010 -- have almost no sense of XDA culture other than gimme gimme gimme now, 140 tapatalk gotta go, life on the run
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Help me with your logic. You mention mainstream and getting with the times, but you also reference culture in a way that would indicate a reverence of past times. You also appear to loathe or hold some angst against the internet community (or people in general) in its present state by your usage of "140 tapatalk gotta go" as if people today do not get it or do not care.
Would we be better served keeping with the times or holding on to our history? On one hand you indicate the former, ("dropping old relics and getting with the times"), yet on the other you cling to the latter ("makes perfect sense for those not on the run with 140 character-count lifedrives" ).
I use forums, but I also accept the use of the word fora. One must always consider audience when speaking or (in this case) writing, so whomever the author considered when composing dictated his or her usage of the particular word currently debated.
Honestly, I do not understand your point. If either usage were incorrect, perhaps I could agree with your stance. Unfortunately, both ARE correct, and as such render your opinion moot. You are still entitled it, however pointless it may be.
-Internet Tough Guy
P.S. Let us be honest. Your iPhone argument is completely illogical. Some (see most) would consider it a logical fallacy. While I can see where you intended to relate your point, it was under served by your misuse of analogy. Also, forum registration date is not indicative of knowledge, experience, or expertise with xda, its history, or its culture (whether past, present, or future).
Wait a minute... Did I just get trolled? Doh.
quicksite said:
Actually it makes perfect sense for those not "on the run with 140 character-count lifedrives"
Quite simply: XDA-devs was founded upon an HTC phone running WM; WM was the prevailing OS for long time; the bulk of the work here for years was focused on things like hard spl and getting hardware and software to do things never intended by the manufacturer -- which made the site great, gave it its reputation, and things churned along. ... Then the iphone came and changed a paradigm. A lot of resistence felt here on this site to the very idea of the iphone, but its influence was undeniable. It was fought and ignored tooth and nail by Ballmer and his old school thinkers tied to the past. Until they were swept in the destbin of history and a new model swept the world with finger-driven interfaces, hardware changes + OTA app store concept which overnight made -- for the mainstream, not the tinkerers at XDA -- WM 6.1 and 6.5 an obsolete concept for app-dev ...
The whole industry shifted around this new model -- and eventually that gravitational force was so strong even old fashioned "We liked out yellow skin" XDA-devs stepped up to the plate, threw out the old, and joined the new --- with a new front page way closer to engadget than old XDA would even have ever dreamed of allowing.
There is nothing obtuse about that analogy at al except for someone purposely being obtuse. It means -- dropping old relics and getting with the times. Nobody is saying "the word isn;t used in the english langauge" -- did I say that? No. I say mainstream. Just as XDA-devs has clearly revamped to appeal more to mainstream and if you doubt that, go have a coffee or beer with svetius, or take a look at that sister site.
I'm not looking for a fight either. I'm just making a strong advocacy point, and i don't like ha;lf-stepping it. There are always going to be little peanut gallery voices who have generally nothing to add other than mockery like "hah hah too much time on hands" like that really refutes or affirms anything. Might as well not post at all. These are just general forums after all . Look how silly it would look if I had said. These are just general fora afterall. People can post what they like.
But it seems rather juvenile and meaningless to bother to post to a thread where you have nothing to add... If anyone has too much time on their hands its someone who posts absolutely nothing of any value, just dittos, and more dittos, just tapping away from tapatalk, because it's so important you see to comment on how stupid the whole topic is. because then you see how smart they are and how ridiculous the poster is.
I think you're pretty silly to post about something you find a waste of time. They do studies about people like that.
But finally, regarding editorial style guides, Okay, I'm all for that. Then would you please, as of today, help make the site editorially consistent, applying your style guide: Here are some places you can start. Oh, it's the portal page, well that's easy, it's under your domain! Happy trails one and all !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are quoting the wrong person altogether. It wasn't Captainkrtek who said that you could have used a better analogy, it was me. If you would read the whole statement, you would have read that I didn't say that your analogy was wrong. I said it was a long stretch, but never said it was wrong.
Also, I never said that "Forums" was wrong either. What I did say was that "Fora" is a properly used term, and perfectly acceptable from where I stand. There is nothing wrong with using it interchangeably, so as both of these terms are acceptable, I will carry on as I was doing before reading your suggestion.
Finally, the join date has nothing to do with the replies you are getting. I am over 2 years your senior membership-wise, and while my replies are a bit more consistent than a simple "you are wasting your time", I will agree that you put a tremendous amount of effort on something that is not needed.
I am open to suggestions and discussions on things that will improve the Portal. I have never seen or heard of anyone complaining about this in my 5+ years of being a member in multiple fora (not just XDA, but many others as well). So, as this is not a crucial change or anything that will affect the usability or functionality of the site, I will take no action towards this. Thank you for the suggestion.
Man the people who frequent the fora here.
It seems their flavourite thing to do sometimes is to analyse the colour of the language in an effort to honourably be at the centre of the arguement. Its the internet, people use different language programme than others.
Wow, what an article. I must say though that I disagree with you. Just because it's the newest item doesn't mean it's what we should go with.
The english language (here in America) is becoming ridiculous to an extreme. To use a term like lol or brb is one thing but when people start typing phrases like 'lol @ u plz hlp me i peez my pnts' all I can say is WTF?? Or when people can't get it through their heads that '@' does not mean 'and' there's a symbol for that - &.
Some businesses are starting to do that stuff "OMG Huge sale, Stp by 2day" and various other forms. Is this what our society is coming to? Do I need to go buy a cypher just to decode teenybopper messages that are as insignificant as the brown thing I left in my toilet last night?
@quicksite lk omg wtf is fora
@fadman i dont nozzz o god hlp mezz plzzzz :.((
If you want to change something why not change the stupefaction of an entire language instead of promoting the expedition of it.
Don't you have people better things to do, rather than complaining about word 'fora' ? It's bad, yeah, but many here can't write or spell correctly.
Are you trying to get at the fact that you don't like the word "fora" instead of forums or forum?
If so, then you are the only person and the only thing i have read on this FORUM that has called this a "fora" or used the term "fora".
According to my mum, "fora" is a plural of "forum"
It can be applied like this:
"There are many different kinds of fora on the internet."
Or
"There are many different kinds of forums on the internet."
You can use either "fora" or "forum".
If the usage of the word "fora" instead of "forum" or "forums" annoys you, well that's just tough sh*t!
You can use either word and people can choose which on they want to use.
So there you go.
And i do have too much time on my hands
BTW: Its free will, people can say which ever word, and you can't change that.
So if your trying to, you have just failed.
BTW2: Someone should close this thread before a flame war starts.
Pretty obvious that the uber microites run the show, people making totally valid points about an OS with a lack of facilities, that the OS it is replacing had in abundance are castigated and threads closed. Free speech my arse, wonder if the microsoft adverts that keep popping up could give us a clue, and there again perhaps I don't wonder. Whatever happened to democracy, are the uber microites dispensing their sponsors version of that ????
Who ever said this place was a democracy? If you don't like how it's run, maybe you shouldn't be so loyal. Plenty of other sites where you can go and be a rebel.
Personally, I just can't get enough of this place.
Same **** happens in the android section every day. Seemingly the only somewhat mature community on here is the WinMo community and that's because most of them are dinosaurs.
elyl said:
Who ever said this place was a democracy? If you don't like how it's run, maybe you shouldn't be so loyal. Plenty of other sites where you can go and be a rebel.
Personally, I just can't get enough of this place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I just went to a better school.
rhory said:
Maybe I just went to a better school.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doubt it, mate, or you wouldn't still be living in that dump Larkhall.
HMRC Loyal RSC
rhory, do the community a favor and leave since you have such a great problem. You don't know how to share opinions, you attack people who disagree with you. You make retarded claims such as 'its a beta OS' when you have no idea what the term 'beta' means. And it gets old you trolling every single positive topic. It isn't that speech is restricted, it's that you feel the need to be a jerk in every single topic and ruin the experience.
The mods probably just don't want trolls running rampent across the forum, which on a forum like this would be easy to have happen. There isn't bias in that.
elyl said:
Doubt it, mate, or you wouldn't still be living in that dump Larkhall.
HMRC Loyal RSC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's how I know I went to a better state school, by your not very subtle allusions.
FiyaFleye said:
rhory, do the community a favor and leave since you have such a great problem. You don't know how to share opinions, you attack people who disagree with you. You make retarded claims such as 'its a beta OS' when you have no idea what the term 'beta' means. And it gets old you trolling every single positive topic. It isn't that speech is restricted, it's that you feel the need to be a jerk in every single topic and ruin the experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shouldn't you be robbing the wealth of some third world state like Alabama or Mississippi, silly me, you've already done that, now you want to applaud microite for robbing us with a piss poor product. I am only to happy that my American relations are nothing like your persona, don't worry sugar, we know how to deal with bully's on this side of the pond, a mouth like you wouldn't last two minutes.
rhory said:
Shouldn't you be robbing the wealth of some third world state like Alabama or Mississippi, silly me, you've already done that, now you want to applaud microite for robbing us with a piss poor product. I am only to happy that my American relations are nothing like your persona, don't worry sugar, we know how to deal with bully's on this side of the pond, a mouth like you wouldn't last two minutes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude, you truly are a racist clown... I hope they ban you, and if they reprimand me for pointing out the obvious, that's fine, but you truly are a leech to societ, I will not be addressing you, ever again
FiyaFleye said:
Dude, you truly are a racist clown... I hope they ban you, and if they reprimand me for pointing out the obvious, that's fine, but you truly are a leech to societ, I will not be addressing you, ever again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As clowns go you are definitely the CoCo of the board, perhaps you will be able to point out any racist comments I have made, apart from pointing out that Americans I know are nothing like your ugly bullying persona, an absolute tube, I could give you lower accolades, but that will do to be going on with.
rhory said:
Shouldn't you be robbing the wealth of some third world state like Alabama or Mississippi, silly me, you've already done that, now you want to applaud microite for robbing us with a piss poor product. I am only to happy that my American relations are nothing like your persona, don't worry sugar, we know how to deal with bully's on this side of the pond, a mouth like you wouldn't last two minutes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wouldn't that make Scotland a third world county as it has about the same GDP as Alabama?
Please close this unuseful thread mods
Sorry to be the adult here, were supposed to be XDA 'developers'. Save the chatter for the playground.
Tone_ said:
Wouldn't that make Scotland a third world county as it has about the same GDP as Alabama?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can tell me something that a Scotsman didn't invent that was and is of use in the world today,in between building the Americas and the Commonwealth, and generally developing the world in general I might agree with you, but since you can't I won't.
Here's a little teaser for all you uber microites, what is the connection between Bill Gates, microsoft and Scotland, not withstanding a Scot being one of, if not the chief writer of microsofts global dominance.
Just a few of my countrymen and women's contribution to the world. http://tinyurl.com/4zrxkeh
rhory said:
If you can tell me something that a Scotsman didn't invent that was and is of use in the world today,in between building the Americas and the Commonwealth, and generally developing the world in general I might agree with you, but since you can't I won't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Internets
Invented by Al Gore who is 43% myth and 82% anti-matter and hand-made in England by Vietnamese orphans
There is no such thing as free speech without consequences. It gets tiring to hear people say I have freedom of speech. You do, but you can be censored, or penalized for some of the things that you say. This is so in every free, democratic country. Look at Slander and also Hate Speech.
Now to get to the Hate Speech aspect - you want your members to express themselves without negatively impacting on the other members. We all have different personalities and idea and to properly manage a forum to ensure that everyone gets to express themselves without negatively impacting on other members is not easy since we can be hedonistic.
Anyone that has read your posts in the Windows Phone 7 forum gets your point. You think the OS is garbage and not fit to be sold. You could easily just move on, but you do not. I am not your psychologist so I will not bother trying to explain why.
But maybe, just maybe it is you. It is a difficult concept for one's ego to accept. The Cheers song works well in these cases:
Wouldn't you like to get away?
Sometimes you want to go
Where everybody knows your name,
and they're always glad you came.
You wanna be where you can see,
our troubles are all the same
You wanna be where everybody knows
Your name.
FiyaFleye said:
rhory, do the community a favor and leave since you have such a great problem. You don't know how to share opinions, you attack people who disagree with you. You make retarded claims such as 'its a beta OS' when you have no idea what the term 'beta' means. And it gets old you trolling every single positive topic. It isn't that speech is restricted, it's that you feel the need to be a jerk in every single topic and ruin the experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just want to point out that I always enjoy reading your posts. You seem to a level-headed and well thought out person. Kudos for trying to talk sense to this idiot.
nicksti said:
There is no such thing as free speech without consequences. It gets tiring to hear people say I have freedom of speech. You do, but you can be censored, or penalized for some of the things that you say. This is so in every free, democratic country. Look at Slander and also Hate Speech.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry to say, but if free speech has such consequences like censorship then it is no longer free speech. That being said, a forum is one of the last places on earth where you would be able to use free speech. Forums have been censored due to political or personal opinions for years. Also democratic countries do not support free speech. They do accept a wider range of topics in the "media" then other governments would allow, but they definitely do not condone free speech.
rhory said:
Just a few of my countrymen and women's contribution to the world. http://tinyurl.com/4zrxkeh
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What an old and questionable list of inventions - think you are getting inventions and patents confused. Has Scotland forgot how to innovate\invent?
Still does not change your GDP being less than the 3rd world stated you mentioned.
I hate even giving threads like this any attention, but it's hard to not just ask every time, If you don't like it, why are you here? Let others talk about the OS without having to sift through your stupid threads and pointless rants. If you don't like it... go away. Stop acting like an infant.
I've been a fan of this site for a long time. I don't post too much, but I have gained much information here. This site has been an invaluable part of my Android hobby. I own 5 Android phones and a Motorola Xoom tablet, and thanks to XDA they are all rooted with custom roms and I use each one confidently. This site is full of great information and helpful people.
However, as of late, XDA seems to be putting out a bad vibe to many of its users. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms. They make demands of developers that will benefit only themselves. Instead of helping new members find the info they are seeking, they'd rather berate and belittle them publicly. The act superior to anyone asking a question. And on and on(trying not to write a book here). I am watching as developers that have contributed so much be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by elitist, rude "veteran" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA.
We cannot blame the site admin or mods, though i do hope to see them push the site in a different direction soon. It is on our back, the users of XDA. We are XDA. We need to remember that the devs are doing what they do for free, and for Android as a whole, not us as individuals. What happened to the great sense of community with Android. IMO, that was one of the best aspects of being involved with Android. There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I hope to see Android become a community again, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
abn75 said:
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
JimmyMcGee said:
Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
chopper the dog said:
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point indeed.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
andr0id23 said:
Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Sir I appreciate your Post. abn has been complaining about our inaction for a while and we ARE looking to improve and it just gets a little old hearing the same complaint over and over when you are working to make this a Quality Forum everyone, including us, wants it to be. I do apologize for my perhaps over-reaction, but it is hard to be constantly beat up on. Yes, us Mods/Admins do deserve some blame. But we have recognized it and we are trying to resolve the issue.
We all just do our best.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App
you need to consider that back in its earlier days, XDA was all about this lil' group of people with WinMo devices learning to rip their mobile OSes apart. as the site grew in size and popularity, more devs came in along with more end-users who feed upon the products of their kitchen. once the android explosion began, there was no other way around the fact that a multitude of users would flood in where as the number of devs coming in would be far smaller.
i still remember just over a year back when i got to cooking my own WinMo ROM the community was growing but there were still devs around where ever you looked ready to guide and help around but now that the site's more popular than ever people flock here expecting miracles and are not disappointed either. it's so addictive that you have to stick around for more. but sadly the number of devs don't grows as fast as their end-user counterparts. that's why you see this problem today. we need the newer member to be willing to learn on their own, being patient with the progress of other devs and most importantly...READING.
just my two cents.
Open tech forums are always ripe for attrition due to many reasons.
The question here is, do we cater to the users or do we cater to the developers? It's pretty obvious that without developers, XDA wouldn't be much of anything.
It's my opinion that the 'elitist' attitude which you speak of from the senior members is something that SHOULD be done, as their point is to protect the developers from being inundated with trivial questions and not detailed bug reports.
Kyphur, another XDA Moderator, had this to say back in 2008 (in a similar thread) when we were a bit smaller, and it still holds true:
kyphur said:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that there are problems here at XDA that are there partially because of the rather loose rules we have set in place.
Sure, the internet, like most places in our society, is one that is supposed to promote freedom of speech. But there is a monumental difference between debating and being immature. A large proportion of the members here grown adults, but it really, really doesn't seem anything remotely close to that quite a lot of the time. Quite a lot of "you ****ing prick"s and the like being thrown about between members. Quite frankly, it's ridiculous, like a bunch of rather scummy 13 year olds.
Part of that does seem to come from the allowance of swearing on the forums; not saying don't swear, because believe me, I'm the last person who'd say that...but I don't on here, merely because it's not the swearing or inappropriate language itself that causes the problem, but the behaviour that naturally comes with it. Many forums are banning the discussion of provocative topics such as Mac vs. PC, iOS vs Android etc. Obviously, this being a mobile device forum, that can't be done here, but there needs to be some moderator control over that. All because people can't help but be immature about it...
That's the worst bit of it.
As for developer vs. end-user, just look at the market now, as well as what the developers here are doing. Smartphones are now more accesible, and the variety between the OSs at their core is much smaller than it used to be. The developers are working hard to make the process of rooting, jailbreaking, any kind of software modification easier for the more technically inept user.
Developers can't expect this forum to stay a developer community if they are going to make their creations so easy to use So experienced users need to accept that XDA has now moved away from being what it's used to be. They need to try and be accomodating to less technical users.
However, the biggest problem here now are probably newer users. They simply don't read or search. Answers are having to be repeated over and over again, even when everything is in the OP...many users need to spend time reading, and they'll realise that a lot of the answers aren't even technical; just a bit of common sense and logical thinking and you'll get the answers you'll need.
In a way, a simple way of post once, sticky once, force end users to read it, and we'll get somewhere.
A lot of good posts here. I tried to word my OP carefully as to not point fingers. Or at least not to lay blame on any one group of people. And I can't claim to know the whole story as while I own a handful of Android devices, that is only but a small part of this site as a whole. I don't come close to visiting all the forums. I really like XDA. From what I see, it is one of the rare sites where thread, where i frequent, often stay on topic. This is due in part to the mods, and in part to the users directing newer members by telling them this isn't the right place to post, linking to an appropriate thread, or just giving a quick answer. However, it's when people start getting angry and calling other people out for not knowing something, being rude, blah blah blah, that I am seeing more of. If all someone has to say is "use the fu**ing search", or "wrong spot noob", there is really no reason to post anything at all. That isn't helping anyone. There are better ways of going about it.
And I think we all have to admit, the days of only the more technical users rooting and modding are coming to an end. Devs are making it easier, one click methods are popping up all over the place, everything is automated, etc. People no long need to learn what is going on when they root their devices. While I enjoy having that knowledge and using the abd method of rooting when there is a one click available, others certainly will not, and they often don't need to. Maybe this isn't the best decision in many of our eyes, but tt is a reality now. More and more people are hacking/modding/rooting every day, and many of them have not even used a command line. I mean hell, there is even an "adb for dummies program" that will install and set up adb for you in one click now!
Again, not point fingers, but I am saddened to see so many people arguing, so many snide, rude responses, people being so demanding and self-serving, and devs leaving the site. I realize that the site is bigger than ever, and that mods do this for free and don't want to waste time being "rudeness police". I don't have all the answers, just something Ive noticed for awhile now. Glad to hear the mods are working on it as well as they can. I know they don't want to see developers leaving. Let's face it, some of these developers have quite a following! Also, sorry they have to hear the same complaints over and over again, but, as I said, I'm glad they are looking into it(if there is even anything that can be done, and I thanks the mods, admin, devs, and users for making this such a great place to learn and share!
I am one million percent in agreement with this topic, but I think the blame is not xda per se... Now, this is MY OPINION, but the problem is as mentioned before, our current society... I said something similar on aamikam's MikG thread on the Evo forum, this is the result of the 21st century, where technology has made mankind do anything anywhere anytime with only a click, and the kids and teens of today are raised in this world of now, so is in their nature to have that state of mind, "I want this now"; and I know this is not all the world, but in general, this is the new way of life on this century, the age of now...
We can also blame the new parents of this era, the average parent now is in their mid 20s to 30s, low 40s and in general, are allowing their kids more privileges and liberties than they had just because "at your age I couldn't do it, but I'll let you do it, not like your grandpas who didn't allowed me do anything at all" and so on and so forth...
Anyway, just wanted to say something about this, good nite all..!