Develop Bugs

Programming ... Whats Best???

Hi!
I'm a Programmer for Visial Basic and Delphi...
I'm not sure whitch system is the best 4 programming the XDA?
AppForge or what?
Thanx
Stevie

Each have their advantages. I would go with Embedded C++ every time, but then, I'm that kind of guy. I like lean code.

On the other hand... If you don't want to learn C++, give Embedded VB a try.

Programming
Hi!
Thanx, but U mean Visual C++ 6.0 ??? Is there anything other what I need with C++ like Appforge 4 VB? Or do I need nothing more?
Stevie

No.. I mean Embedded C++. It is available for free from microsoft
http://msdn.microsoft.com/downloads...=/msdn-files/027/001/963/msdncompositedoc.xml

>I'm not sure whitch system is the best 4 programming the XDA?
>AppForge or what?
I guess it depends on your definition of "best".
I do C++, but actually prefer Visual Basic for most
applications due to the development speed for GUI-based
stuff.
I've downloaded eMbedded Visual Basic and eMbedded C++ from
Microsoft. One problem: EVB apparently does *not* yet
support the XDA architecture (StrongARM).
The SmartPhone SDK from MS *does* support StrongARM (not
*specifically the XDA* that I can tell) but only provides the SDK
for eMbedded C++ (not EVB).
I EMAILed the MobileVB folk and they said:
1) They don't support SmartPhones.
2) They don't have any support for SMS handling.
At this point I guess I'll go to EVC++ unless I can find other
tool(sets) to use.
What *I* would like to see is script support ALA PERL or PYTHON.
Is there anyone out there that knows of a beastie like this?
Or, even better (for me) would be LINUX on the XDA (I've
been using Familiar distro on the iPAQ, and it is great .. can
do GPRS/GPS from a LINUX-based platform (C/C++/JAVA/PERL/PYTHON/whatever).
Charlie

You keep mentioning Smartphone here, and the Smartphone SDK. The XDA does not support the Smartphone SDK, as it is not a Smartphone - it runs Pocket PC 2002 Phone Edition - something completely different.
So please, don't spend several hours downloading the Smartphone SDK to find it's not the right one. Download the Pocket PC 2002 SDK. I have developed several apps for the XDA using this already.

What *I* would like to see is script support ALA PERL or PYTHON.
Is there anyone out there that knows of a beastie like this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a PocketPC Python, you have to use the win32api to GUI work, and installation can be a little painful depending on what you need. It does run and is stable though. Check out http://www.murkworks.com/Research/Python/PythonCE/PythonCEWiki/FrontPage[/quote]

Hi guys
I downloaded eMbedded Visual Tools 3.0 from Microsoft, but during installation, I was asked for the Product ID #
Any help ? :?:

I'd like to throw in another suggestion: the .Net Compact Framework. If you're a Delphi programmer (as are we - I used to be on TeamB for Delphi), you'll take to it straight away. After all, .Net and C# was designed by the same Anders Hejlsberg that designed Delphi. C# is very like Object Pascal with a C/Java syntax, but with even more goodies.
We've been using the Compact Framework beta for several months and it is quite simply superb. It was just launched officially on April 26th as part of Visual Studio.Net 2003. However, you don't need to buy Visual Studio - just download the .Net 1.1 SDK from Microsoft - it's free.
It's just a subset of the full .Net Framework, but if you need to do something that's not supported directly in the Framework classes, you can easily call API functions - or even write some code in embedded VC++ and call that. The managed environment is just great.
MikeS.

When prompted for the CD Key, please enter TRT7H-KD36T-FRH8D-6QH8P-VFJHQ
Khang Le
[email protected]

Khang Le, thanks

Silverlight 4 Likely as Dev Platform

Given Andy Lees quote about WP7: "It's a very sort of advanced platform that really works across PC, phone, and console," it seems likely he's talking about Silverlight 4, especially given the boost in features that it's getting for version 4. I find this to be a very suitable platform for what they're trying to do. You can't beat multi-platform & RIA support - dev once, run on all. What do you think?

Still very propretiary

chribruu said:
Still very propretiary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what? All current phones only support native applications that are created with a proprietary SDK. The big exception is Java which is executed in a VM, but these applications cannot use the full potential of each platform, because they must aim for the lowest common denominator. So without modifications, no native application will run on all platforms.

chribruu said:
Still very propretiary
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not any different than the current situation really. How many people write WM code in anything other than Visual Studio?

Basically a different set of GUI libraries on .Net 3.5.
Hope they'll make SL4 available on WM6.5, too. That way it would be a much better platform choice.

You're all right. I replied without really thinking my post trough. :/
The only thing bad with SL (and flash) is if/when they become web "standards".
Just disregard that post
Sorry for the OT.

from the little i have read/seen. it seems like this will prob be the case..

Silverlight will be one of the dev platforms, along with C++ with a XAML UI.

in this video
"Behind the Design of Windows phone 7" on youtube (i could not post the link)
1:25 - 1:29
you can see the ide for wp7.
it looks like blend. that would definitely mean xaml for ui.

pensoffsky said:
in this video
"Behind the Design of Windows phone 7" on youtube (i could not post the link)
1:25 - 1:29
you can see the ide for wp7.
it looks like blend. that would definitely mean xaml for ui.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And as I said, C++ with a XAML UI...

XNA C#, no dubt for the games.
It's available for the Zune HD, I guess it will follow on to WP7
But maby not for the UI?? any thoughts?
From XNA.com :
XNA Game Studio 3.1 Zune Extensions, to support Zune HD, adds the following functionality to the product:
The ability to target and develop for the Zune HD media player.
The addition of new Touch APIs to the XNA Framework for use on the Zune HD.
The addition of new Accelerometer APIs to the XNA Framework for use on the Zune HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I don't really believe, that they'll be using an unmanaged language for the application developement itself (other than drivers of course).
I think it would be most likely to be using C#, perhaps more in the way of how most android apps use java, e.g. it's precompiled on deployment.
What I really hope for is that, there is no longer the limitation of 32 mb per process.

confused in developing applications for windows mobile

i always wanted to make my own software. thou i'm not an expert programmer but i do have a little background of it.
i have this compiler installed called visual studio 6.0 (i have attached a screenshot)
my question is, how can i use that to create applications for my windows mobile.?
do i need a library or SDK for that.? can you help were can i download it.?
i already tried searching but most results refers to the latest visual studio which i don't have. i know that my compiler is a bit old.
im planning to use visual basic. please help me.

Sorry, it's of no use. The minimum requirement is VS2003, but this could only target WM2003 WM2003SE.
VS2005/2008 improve on it, and can be made backwardly compatable. The only VB tool that MS provided gratis, was Embedded Tools 3.0,which is both VB and eVC++ 3.00.
This was originally released in 2002. I think MS have now pulled it from their download sites, but there are other sites hosting it on the web if you search for it.

stephj said:
Sorry, it's of no use. The minimum requirement is VS2003, but this could only target WM2003 WM2003SE.
VS2005/2008 improve on it, and can be made backwardly compatable. The only VB tool that MS provided gratis, was Embedded Tools 3.0,which is both VB and eVC++ 3.00.
This was originally released in 2002. I think MS have now pulled it from their download sites, but there are other sites hosting it on the web if you search for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the reply. it does enlighten me

if you're just about to begin developing I'd rather wait until the dev. SDKs for WP7 are becoming available. Everything you do now is subject to change, in case you want to develop for the newest OS.
if you still want to develop for WM 6.x then go ahead with VS 2005/08. Then on top of VS you also need to install a dev. SDK i.e. WM 6 Prof. SDK if you want to develop for touch screen devices.

RAMMANN said:
Then on top of VS you also need to install a dev. SDK i.e. WM 6 Prof. SDK if you want to develop for touch screen devices.
Click to expand...
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what do you mean.? is that an add-on for the compiler.? is that available for download.?

Similya said:
what do you mean.? is that an add-on for the compiler.? is that available for download.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...3A-A651-4745-88EF-3D48091A390B&displaylang=en
again on top of that, you can install the SDK for 6.5
I guess now you're completely confused

Use Basic4ppc instead.
Really simple and powerful IDE

RAMMANN said:
yes.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...3A-A651-4745-88EF-3D48091A390B&displaylang=en
again on top of that, you can install the SDK for 6.5
I guess now you're completely confused
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks buddy, i'll try it after i'll buy the visual studio installer.
I guess now you're completely confused
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah right im confused hehehehe

WhiteRussianBC said:
Use Basic4ppc instead.
Really simple and powerful IDE
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks you also buddy, i just downloaded the trial, i'll try it.

Similya said:
thanks you also buddy, i just downloaded the trial, i'll try it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess this won't work on WP7 so better get off to (in your case) Visual Basic.

RAMMANN said:
I guess this won't work on WP7 so better get off to (in your case) Visual Basic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well im using wm6.5 and it worked fine
is there a thread here about basic4ppc.? i have problem getting around some command, like fullscreen and IF.
im still searching for solutions. . .

Extracting Native APIs? Possible...maybe.

Okay, so since the unlocked emulator has a file manager and task manager, does that mean it would be possible to extract them and run them on an actual WP7S device? And if that was possible, would it also be possible to extract the Native APIs from these apps? I'm fairly certain that they use Native APIs because ordinary apps can only access their own directory. I'm not very smart with these things, so sorry if it's obviously impossible or something.

It's wince - the native API is always there, where do you want to extract it from? Also some people figured out most WP7 apps from the emulator ROM are written in native as well. it's always here.
But you can't just put file manager on a WP7 device because there's no access for you to put anything on it, except apps from Marketplace you got the picture? even if we could cook our custom ROMs in the future the only thing we could do is throw in our own DLLs, services or background tools on it and customize it a little. I still doubt you'd be able to develop real WP7 style apps like a file manager or registry editor because the GUI is supposed to be written in Silverlight/XNA. And from those frameworks you can't access the native API unless Microsoft would add support for it.
101% dumb phone. If you think about it then WP7 is even WORSE then iphone.

But what if you could use Visual Studio to load it onto the device? If you look around in it, there is an option for that.

Actual devices will have to be unlocked for developement purposes to allow sideloading through Visual Studio and even then I doubt the system would be able to deploy native code. Developer phone means a yearly fee for membership in the MS developer programm.
I don't think that using native APIs from managed code would be impossible in the SDK - carriers, e.g. will be allowed to use it, but for normal applications the Security Context in .Net would prevent the programm from calling them (Code Security Managers are configurably available in Java and .Net from the beginning, so i believe that would be what MS uses to block access).
And of course programs using those wouldn't get on the marketplace.

Oh, too bad then, but thanks for your response anyway!

Fdo35 said:
Okay, so since the unlocked emulator has a file manager and task manager, does that mean it would be possible to extract them and run them on an actual WP7S device? And if that was possible, would it also be possible to extract the Native APIs from these apps? I'm fairly certain that they use Native APIs because ordinary apps can only access their own directory. I'm not very smart with these things, so sorry if it's obviously impossible or something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay, the issue here is the lack of a few key DLLs: Windows 7 Series will not offer GDI most likely (I'm downloading the emulator set now, and will confirm this soon) and will lack comctl32.dll and the like, removing these functions. As it's been stated before, like Windows 7 uses the 6.1 NT Kernel, Windows Phone 7 series uses the 6.5 Windows CE kernel, at least, last that I've heard. It would then be both possible to bring Windows Mobile 6.5 DLLs over, but anything that calls GDI will not work. Solution? Make a mock GDI that uses the new render.
This isn't new either, Windows 7 uses WPF more than ever (Which composes most of the games as well as Windows Media Center), which is a 3D accelerated and fancier way to draw to the screen, and Windows 7's GDI subset has been updated to allow hardware acceleration granted the graphics card allows it (It's actually something the video card driver must tell Windows, as MSDN states)

Deploy native code, no. Run it, of course
I'll be investigating the possibility of native code here shortly. Chances are, you will need to set the target to ARMV6, and set the compile type to Native, not Windows. Most developers, if not all, probably have overlooked this.

I would expect that it'll require privileged access to run native code, so you'll need to solve the code signing problem.

ThymeCypher said:
Okay, the issue here is the lack of a few key DLLs: Windows 7 Series will not offer GDI most likely (I'm downloading the emulator set now, and will confirm this soon) and will lack comctl32.dll and the like, removing these functions. As it's been stated before, like Windows 7 uses the 6.1 NT Kernel, Windows Phone 7 series uses the 6.5 Windows CE kernel, at least, last that I've heard. It would then be both possible to bring Windows Mobile 6.5 DLLs over, but anything that calls GDI will not work. Solution? Make a mock GDI that uses the new render.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I doubt things like comctl.dll and some other things like GWES will be that big of an issue once Platform Builder 7 is released and we can just generate these components ourselves. Hell, adding back GDI support (if those rumors aren't just lies) may be as easy as replacing the GWES with a less crippled one generated by Platform Builder. Maybe GDI support is still compiled in but just doesn't output directly to the screen using the default graphics driver implementation. That's how the Dreamcast implementation of Windows CE was. To even see apps like IE on the screen, you need to copy the contents of the standard WinCE GDI output to a DirectDraw surface.
What I'm more worried about is the hackability of the hardware/software. I'm really hoping it's not as insanely locked down to the point to being unhackable like every Zune.

do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?

RAMMANN said:
do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Platformbuilder is for the OS, which is Windows CE. There is still some debate as to what version the emulator is running, leaving alone the possibility that the actual version of the OS may be different at release.
If the CE6R3 camp is right, you can get platform builder for that right now, though you wont have telshell.exe (WP7 replacement for explorer.exe), and the WP7 specific apps. It would be an interesting exercise to see if they could be run on CE6R3. If no one beats me to the punch, I plan on trying this for myself when I am less swamped at work.
If the CE7 camp is right, you will have to wait till MS releases that version to the public. And they WILL release it because there are far too many embedded systems outside of phones that run on CE for them to neglect it.

No, I was talking about the generic Windows CE 7.0 Platform Builder and not the OEM specific OAK for WP7S. Unless MS plans to completely drop their generic Embedded Windows CE offerings, I see no reason why PB 7.0 will not be released and help with hacking WP7S (if it is even based on 7.0). You always needed to be a large ODM and sing an NDA to use a Platform Builder addon/OAK for the MS platforms like Pocket PC. Those almost never leak and I can't imagine this would be much different.

RAMMANN said:
do you think Platform builder is still available for WP7? Since MS won't allow the OEMs to modify the OS I doubt that. Do you have a source? You've seen an announcement from MS or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, platform builder was used to build leaked wp7 arm image.
d:\wm700_6176\platform\common\src
\soc\qcom_v1\oal\power\sleep.c
It is from from nk.exe

use dumpbin.exe to get all methods in dll/exe

I want to become a Windows Phone 7 developer!

Hi all!
I decided I want to start developing apps for Windows Phone, and want some pointers. I already know visual basic and java, the latter of which was handy on creating a few apps on android. I 'm quite experienced when it comes to linux, and I'm also good with hardware. That's my backround. Now I've set my eyes on Windows Phone 7 and I want to take it up seriously. So where should I begin, what tools should I use, and is there a guide, possibly? I'm a fast learner, and very eager to begin!
Thanks in advance!

I posted a lot of links in the following thread (3rd message)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1387900
Hope it helps, and good luck with whatever you write.
Ian

Thanks Ian! I'm gonna get started right away!

First of all you have to learn C# it's easy language and very similar to Java. Later you have to read sth about .net Framework. To write a application you have to download free Visual Studio 2010 Express for Windows Phone.
Good luck and have fun

You can use VB language too. So you should be good. No need to learn c#. But But you should, I love c#.
Sent from my HD7 using DeepShining v6.5

To be open, C# == java (true) extra features and more functions

Hextor_PL said:
First of all you have to learn C# it's easy language and very similar to Java. Later you have to read sth about .net Framework. To write a application you have to download free Visual Studio 2010 Express for Windows Phone.
Good luck and have fun
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it necessary to have VS 2010 Express installed? Or is the VS for Windows Phone enough?
Damn..I have VS 2010 Express installed, and I just cannot uninstall it completely. Now, SDk 7.1 cannot be installed due to missing components.
Note: I uninstalled VS 2010 as it had that bug wherein you cannot start a new project. "Registry error"

not necessary. but it's must have one.

I think you need the full paid for version of Visual Studio in order to use VB coding on WP7 but if you already have that then it's all good!

comeradealexi said:
I think you need the full paid for version of Visual Studio in order to use VB coding on WP7 but if you already have that then it's all good!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ans sometime you don't need to buy, if your country doesn't has laws like us

Thanks，your ansowers is useful for me too.(poor english)