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The following are the features NEEDED before I adopt WP7 as my new smartphone OS.
1. Rooted device.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
3. File explored => than iFile
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
4. DLNA in all forms.
5. True windows live Mesh.
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
7. Push everything.
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
10. IE download manager.
11. Video chat.
These needs are almost already met with my iPhone. Being a avid windows 7 and windows media center user I can see a huge advantage of adopting WP7. Devs, can u tell me how many features I can check off this list? I know some are possible with 6.x already. Feel free to add to this list for wanted features that are out of the norm.
Also I don't think I like the idea of ROM cooking. I might not understand it though, since ROM means read only memory does it mean that u have to modify your devices os before you install it in your phone? I don't like that at all. I want to be able to modify my os at anytime in explorer like u can with windows 7.
App pirating...oh yeah that's a feature that will be good for the development of the platform. Seesh, people work hard on stuff and generally charge reasonable prices to keep themselves afloat and you demand app pirating!? Dear Microsoft please allow rpoot access to the device so people can find work arounds and steal your client's good work. That's exactly the attitude which stops Microsoft from allowing root access, because its waaaaay to easy to pirate then.
What we really need is a good ad revenue generator (ie Google ads, iAds) so that innovation can be driven by the financial incentive and these guys who dev can get some well earned cash.
Anyways, whats your job? Would you like it if I asked for yur services and then you didn't get paid?
Sorry grouchy this morning. #Rant
Yea. $400 for a phone is fine but then when asked to pay $3 for an app you'll use all the time it's just too much? :facepalm:
......why the hell does a mobile browser need a download manager?
Thats what the iPhone needs to be able to download mp3s or docs from safari. I just want the ability to download a mp3 from the net in the brower and have it show up in my zune media player. The iphone requires a few jailbroken apps to achieve this at the moment.
that's native in the zune music player already you know...
1. Rooted device.
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I thought rooting was only used for android. But as far as the unlocking thing, it is device dependent. Several developers are working on finding means to give developers more freedom as well as users with wp7. but it is a work in progress and takes time.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
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what
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
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Does this really have to be said? I mean are you looking for an application that will allow user customization of the start menu like winterboard? If so see post 1. to be frank the theming for wp7 so far is okay but nothing as open as windows mobile. But again we have no idea what the device can really do. It is based on what is found and the extent of what development will lead to.
But if you want winterboard...well get the phone that has it
4. DLNA in all forms.
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Again unsure if wp7 can do that. It may be able to but no idea. We don't know
5. True windows live Mesh.
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Isn't live mesh going to be gone soon?
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
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I dunno if that's really necessary. There may be a program for it most likely. But I don't think its needed in first generation wp7 devices. Heck I much prefer to just drag and drop my files or sync with zune anyway...
7. Push everything.
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Not everything has to be push...I think that as far as notification goes push may be a hindrance. I do prefer the old system though
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
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yeah this is a fail...
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
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That is developer dependent and its tough to say what the emulation scene will be like...
10. IE download manager.
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Why!? Seriously why!? sorry but that's retarded. I mean how much are you downloading on your phone right now to substantiate a feature like that. remember, wp is the de emphasis of the phone being a computer but performing some basic tasks like all smart phones can do in a different way.
11. Video chat.
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It could be a developer making something for that. No one knows
As for the things being met for your iphone, keep your iphone =) if you honestly are looking for information on a platform that isn't released, wait a year until wp7 has some options available...
and for the point of not liking rom cooking, do you even know the process? No you don't. May wanna read up on it...
...
IMHO, almost everything you listed I know personally I won't be using my phone for that. I don't mind media centric information but there is overload. For suiting my needs (clinical psychology) I may need to browse some psychology databases, a dedicated pdf reader, an ebook reader, the ability to record notes from class, patient intake, and so on. But again specifics differ according to user of the device.
Thanks for the info domineus, what I mean by "Rooted windows share Local network access." is the abiltiy for my phone's whole file system to show up when I click on the network in explorer on one of the PCs in my house. The iPhone does this with ubuntu when it is jailbroken right now. Also I want the abiltity to telnet/ssh into all my home network PCs to move files around and delete them or whatever. Basicly I want total control of my home network in the command line. This feature is lacking with my iPhone right now. I bet telneting is possible in windows mobile 6.x right now isn't it?
As far as the download manager thing goes. I don't know what u use your phone for but I am constantly getting new mp3s, pics, video, and docs offline everyday. The itunes library on the phone is encrypted right now so u can't just drop and drag in iFile to add to the itunes library. Also the default safari you can't save target as to get the file. I think you can with windows mobile 6.x though, I did it at work once. Half the time I'm not around a pc to sync anyways, I feel like tethered syncing is a chore. I am pretty sure you can't "save target as" in IE with the WP7 emulator.
Yeah Ive decided....you should get the iPhone...Im pretty happy to see how the community goes but for you to make demands a lot of which are stupid or overly tailored to your specific needs and hence serve no purpose on a public forum, well thats pretty darn silly.
gotta agree its a bit solipsistic
especially on a platform that is newly developed and IMHO we have no idea how its going to develop or the clientele requirements
Skatingn330 said:
[...]Also I want the abiltity to telnet/ssh into all my home network PCs to move files around and delete them or whatever. Basicly I want total control of my home network in the command line. This feature is lacking with my iPhone right now. I bet telneting is possible in windows mobile 6.x right now isn't it?[...]
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Click to collapse
Uhm, telnet? Yes, through 3rdparty apps of course. Telnet is a very simple thing to use, but you still need somewhere to telnet TO and something responding on the other end (on your computer(s)). So, the "feature" you want is not something that is related to the device, but rather something you need to setup on your LAN. You would only need a telnetapp on your device
Though I must say... Unless I was in a DIRE need for exposing my WHOLE system for outside access I would NEVER even dream of using a telnetserver on ANY of my systems (except on my linuxbox, hehe). Its a disaster waiting to happen There are fare better choices to use than telnet.
Regarding the file-sharing (SMB) you spoke of. Even if we disregard the fact that SMB is not a very secure protocol, the main thing that speaks against that MS would incorporate such a feature is... since MS doesnt even provide filesystem-access ON the device, why should they do it through SMB? I am pretty sure you can forget that one, at least out-of-the-box, maybe if its unlocked and through some obscure 3rdpartyapp.
Just my two cents...
Moving to general.
Skatingn330 said:
The following are the features NEEDED before I adopt WP7 as my new smartphone OS.
1. Rooted device.
2. Rooted windows share Local network access.
3. File explored => than iFile
3. Phone theme app similar to winterboard for iPhone.
4. DLNA in all forms.
5. True windows live Mesh.
6. Zune updated via explorer, no tethered or untethered syncing needed.
7. Push everything.
8. App pirating scene => apptrackr.org for iPhone.
9. Video game console emulation from all the greats.
10. IE download manager.
11. Video chat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Might happen, but a strange requirement
2. Don't understand this one?
3. You're not getting this, the phone don't have a traditional filesystem.
3_. You're not getting this either.
4. Microsoft is a promoter of DLNA
5. It's being merged to SkyDrive, and is supported at launch
6. Won't be possible with the explorer, but it will with the Zune desktop client.
7. The notification-system is based on push.
8. Microsoft is a large company with a long history of anti-piracy. You'll might get in trouble here
9. Write some XNA wrapper for it then!
10. I'd suspect there will be a form of management of downloads and downloaded files.
11. None of the 1. generation phones have a camera on the front side, so you'll have to wait. But software-wise it's supported from day one.
smuppy said:
Though I must say... Unless I was in a DIRE need for exposing my WHOLE system for outside access I would NEVER even dream of using a telnetserver on ANY of my systems (except on my linuxbox, hehe). Its a disaster waiting to happen There are fare better choices to use than telnet.
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Im pretty new to networking but wouldnt using a VPN serve the purpose of what he is wanting? Im not familiar with telnet hardly at all (expect for watching star wars episode 4 that i stumbled across google, haha) but it sounds like a VPN would do what hes looking for. Which WM, the iphone (from what i understand anyways), and im hoping WP7 does. Plus its much MUCH more secure then telnet in even its most basic form of PPTP.
Hey!
So I want to buy the HTC Mozart, but I am not quite sure, because if there is no good community it wont be worth the money. So does anyone know if somebody is working on a root or jailbreak for wp7?
It would make the platform even greater
Thanks in advance!
People are working on it. I'd be surprised if there isn't a jailbreak available in 3 months after it is released.
Ok thanks I am just interested as the beta was already available and the roms have leaked in the htc Mozart category.
To general!
~~Tito~~
the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
Made2Last said:
the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
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This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
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Click to collapse
"HardSPL" is a bootloader that allows custom Windows ROMs - like flashing to BIOS in your PC to a 3rd party version
Windows doesn't have the concept of a "root or jailbreak" because there is no root account or Jail Shell.
ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
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WM (Windows Mobile) is not equivalent to WP or (Windows Phone) Windows Mobile is the past, Windows Phone is Microsoft moving forward. I think they might actually have something with this new OS
Mhh interesting Thanks!
I tested the OS and it feels great, like my iphone 2g at first and after JB i noticed that it is crap without JB XD so just wondering ^^
~~Tito~~ said:
To general!
~~Tito~~
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Again To general.
This just discusses WP7, it does not contribute anything developmental wise, just discussion wise .
~~Tito~~
I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
The only thing that'll make sense right now is unbrand phones, to get carriers out of the loop in regards of updates.
Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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I do not think that this is IOS with a skin!!
I just wanted to know if something like jb or root will come!
Not JB per se but only the concept of being able to do stuff MS doesnt want to!
@Tom Servo
I am not sure but isnt it running on a silverlight platform so it would be rather easy to develop different apps?
A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.
Tom Servo said:
A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.
Click to expand...
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Oh ok thanks!
Now thats kinda stupid from them.....
A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.
Tom Servo said:
I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
Tom Servo said:
A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.
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Thanks a lot! I just saw the app you created looks interessting
Is it in the market yet?
So as you develop such apps i have to ask you:
Do you think the problems you mentioned can be overcome like MS says.
Like in one or two months?
Or would you say that the market will not evolve as much as apple and android?
vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reason exactly!
vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
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Microsoft doesnt allow native code for 3rd parties, amd pretty much said they'll keep it that way. I doubt WP7 will support unsafe code for 3rd parties. It's too obvious a workaround...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Hi all,
I was wondering if it's possible to inject into zune app and make it install another app instead of the one you choose using zune.
Using fillder, I briefly tried to look what requests are made by zune but I could not see anything which looks like downloading the app.
Just sideload its a whole lot easier and I don't think something like that exists otherwise it would be on Android and iPhone.
Sent from my GT-I5800 using XDA App
andreiuc said:
I was wondering if it's possible to inject into zune app and make it install another app instead of the one you choose using zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, I can say - interesting idea! But I am afraid it's a very difficult to implement. You need to emulate whole MS store server...
I think all requests go via secure connection and checked by trusted certificates on device.
same with dev unlock.
Cotulla said:
I think all requests go via secure connection and checked by trusted certificates on device.
same with dev unlock.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all, some requests are non-secure. I'm able (with WireShark) to catch xap requests, store/app info etc. Actually, we have a lot of marketplace replacements (even I have my own implementation ).
sensboston said:
Not at all, some requests are non-secure. I'm able (with WireShark) to catch xap requests, store/app info etc. Actually, we have a lot of marketplace replacements (even I have my own implementation ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried with Fiddler to catch xap requests but I was not able to see any.
My idea is to to write an app which injects code in Zune to hijack calls to download a XAP from zune and download from my location instead(or get it from local disk).
it's good to hear this. but marketplace XAP files are signed and it also makes a problem. unsigned will not work. (it's not deploy, it's installation!)
Cotulla said:
it's good to hear this. but marketplace XAP files are signed and it also makes a problem. unsigned will not work. (it's not deploy, it's installation!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right. They are signed with developer key.
Not sure if WP7 OS checks this and how would it know if it's the real app?
I mean, I can sign my own XAP which I make Zune to get it and deliver it to WP7.
andreiuc said:
Right. They are signed with developer key.
Not sure if WP7 OS checks this and how would it know if it's the real app?
I mean, I can sign my own XAP which I make Zune to get it and deliver it to WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking to the requests responses when you select to install an app, I was able to see this response XML:
Code:
<a:entry>
<a:updated>2011-09-08T18:03:25.3198784Z</a:updated>
<a:title type="text">3D Paperball 1.3.0.0</a:title>
<a:id>urn:uuid:1ea47c77-79c1-4c5a-b441-549b4e93dcea</a:id>
<version>1.3.0.0</version>
<url>http://apps.marketplace.windowsphone.com/E0C15284-972B-41D3-B245-8C16AAF73A66/CurrentBinary.xap</url>
<packageSize>9235456</packageSize>
<installSize>19616768</installSize>
<clientTypes>
<clientType>WinMobile 7.0</clientType>
<clientType>WinMobile 7.1</clientType>
</clientTypes>
<supportedLanguages>
<supportedLanguage>English</supportedLanguage>
</supportedLanguages>
<deviceCapabilities><capability><id>ID_CAP_NETWORKING</id><string>data services</string><disclosure>Disclose</disclosure></capability><capability><id>ID_CAP_SENSORS</id><string>movement and directional sensor</string><disclosure>Disclose</disclosure></capability><capability><id>ID_CAP_IDENTITY_USER</id><string>owner identity</string><disclosure>Disclose</disclosure></capability><capability><id>ID_CAP_IDENTITY_DEVICE</id><string>phone identity</string><disclosure>Disclose</disclosure></capability></deviceCapabilities>
<averageLastInstanceUserRating>0</averageLastInstanceUserRating>
<lastInstanceUserRatingCount>0</lastInstanceUserRatingCount>
</a:entry>
<a:author>
<a:name>Microsoft Corporation</a:name>
</a:author>
As you can see, the XAP URL is right there.
However, with Fiddler, I am not able to see any requests to this URL.
Maybe someone can share some info using more advanced tools like WireShark.
LOL, my hunch is it's actually the WP7 OS which is doing the download of the file
yeah. but it seems signed with own MS certificate ?
so developers push app to MS and they verify and sign it? (I don't know much about market space publishing)
andreiuc said:
LOL, my hunch is it's actually the WP7 OS which is doing the download of the file
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe you are right as it's been discovered already that it's pacmaninstaller.exe (I think that's the spelling) on device that prevents the sideloading of homebrew apps with INTEROPSERVICES.
andreiuc said:
However, with Fiddler, I am not able to see any requests to this URL.
Maybe someone can share some info using more advanced tools like WireShark.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you "reverse tether" your phone to PC? I believe, handset is responsible to download and install xap...
BTW, all these talks is about "warez" I don't see any other reasons to do that kind of hack (or may be, for research purposes only).
To get a "prove of concept", we need:
- download MS signed xap;
- using some kind of filtering proxy, replace request to http://apps.marketplace.windowsphone.com/{GUID}/CurrentBinary.xap to the local server;
If phone will be able to download and install that xap (what is impossible by using MS or third-party deployers), we'll get a solution or at least prove of solution
Cotulla said:
yeah. but it seems signed with own MS certificate ?
so developers push app to MS and they verify and sign it? (I don't know much about market space publishing)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, "Ed Zachary" (c) Dave Barry, "Big Trouble"
I seem to recall that one of the memebers developed an activ sync to use with Windows Phone 7.5 instead of Zune.
I can't seem to find it. Can anybody please direct me.
calli said:
I seem to recall that one of the memebers developed an activ sync to use with Windows Phone 7.5 instead of Zune.
I can't seem to find it. Can anybody please direct me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That does what?
MJCS said:
That does what?
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It syncs all of your Outlook and other items between your PC and Phone instead of using Zune. It allows you to also copy files to your Phone.
Just like Active Sync and Windows Mobile device Centre did with all the previous versions of Windows Mobile 6
Does not exist. You have to use the cloud.
Soon.
http://wmpoweruser.com/rumour-htc-developing-software-for-direct-synchronization-with-outlook/
returned4good said:
Soon.
http://wmpoweruser.com/rumour-htc-developing-software-for-direct-synchronization-with-outlook/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is good news if it materialises. It will give WP7.5 much more flexibility and ease of use for a diverse number of users.
calli said:
That is good news if it materialises. It will give WP7.5 much more flexibility and ease of use for a diverse number of users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looks like it'll be HTC only initially, but that's we have the guys here at XDA for, right?
This would be great, but I think I'll have an Android phone by the time this materializes. My Tilt is slowly giving up the fight...
Can anyone make a homebrew version of the 3G data usage? As in how much I use and warnings when it go over the limit. I know this is not possible on the marketplace, so can developers make this??
Sent from my 7 Mozart T8698 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
That would be a very cool thing. +1
As far as I know is that not possible at this time!
and you know this how? you do not look like recognized develop but i am not denying that you arent, just i have never heard of you.
It would be good if we can get some developers to work on this idea... This kind of app is available on iPhone and android....feels inferior if we can't even reach this function
Sent from my 7 Mozart T8698 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
lovenokia said:
and you know this how? you do not look like recognized develop but i am not denying that you arent, just i have never heard of you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no i'm not a developer right now, but i read a lot and long time in this forum.. often is this question ask, therefore i know it.
the windowphone7 has public API limitations. so developers in this forum can't create that kind of app, only cell-providers. at&t (provider) has create a app for data usage counter. but i don't know, whether other cell provider has apps like this.
maybe it is possible in future..
The current windows phone SDK does not offer the ability to know anything about data usage. It can tell devs if your connected to a mobile network and that's about it ... one could write an app to know when the phone is on a mobile network and then have a background task that listens for any network traffic being used. However, listening to the traffic would probably need to be a homebrew hack to get that info and it would be quite a bit of work to accomplish this correctly.
I have heard that win phone 8 will have this built in and much more for easier data tracking and laerting the user.
Windows Phone 8 will have this built in ... but for now you should use your carrier's app if they have one
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
lovenokia said:
and you know this how? you do not look like recognized develop but i am not denying that you arent, just i have never heard of you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure there are millions of developers other devs haven't heard of.