Develop Bugs

Are there any better PIM programs out there?

Does anyone know of any good Personal Information Management software for Windows Mobile? I am not asking a whole lot. Just be able to search for a key word among appointments, todos, notes shouldn't be too much to ask for, is it? The current Calendar and Task applications can't even do that.
Thanks!

there are a ton of them, google PIM, windows mobile and your search will come up with Pocket Informant, Agenda One, and a bunch of others.

thanks!
dmd1272 said:
there are a ton of them, google PIM, windows mobile and your search will come up with Pocket Informant, Agenda One, and a bunch of others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, I have done a google search before. Like you said, there are a ton. Perhaps, I should change my question to which PIM is better for the WM 6.1.
thanks!

i have been using agenda one - works for everything I need and I am kinda picky. If theres something better fill me in. Download the free trial and see if you like it.

PIM
Try Papyrus or Agenda One - both are among the best

Agenda One not working very well
[email protected] said:
Try Papyrus or Agenda One - both are among the best
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for the suggestions! I downloaded the trial version of Agenda One - supposed to be full featured with time limit. I tried several searches - some search all, some search only in appointment, or only todos. None of them worked. It looked like the program tried for a while, then it simply terminated (not the search, but the entire Agenda one program). It kicked me back to the today screen, and the process no longer listed in the task list

Try the recently released Papyrus 2. It's frakkin' amazing

try agendus over at www.iambic.com

Agenda One is no go
anewbie said:
Thank you for the suggestions! I downloaded the trial version of Agenda One - supposed to be full featured with time limit. I tried several searches - some search all, some search only in appointment, or only todos. None of them worked. It looked like the program tried for a while, then it simply terminated (not the search, but the entire Agenda one program). It kicked me back to the today screen, and the process no longer listed in the task list
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I signed up at Developer One support forum, and tried to post this question. It's been a couple of days, they don't even show my posting in the forum. I tried to ask the same question again, still blocked by the moderator. Oh well, moving on to Papyrus 2 trial now.

Thank you all for the suggestions! I thought I'd spend a few words sharing my opinions on the products I've been trying out:
Agenda One - in spite of the awards the company claims they have received, I find this product adds very little value to the existing WM 6.1 PIM functionality. Some pretty colors, that's it. When I started my quest for a better PIM, all I was looking for was a search function. Agenda One has it. I had made many variations of attempts to use it, search all, search in appointments only, search in todos only, search whole word, partial word, any words .... Not once did it ever complete the search with any result. Every single time, the function started, try for a while, then the program crashed. It simply terminate. I submitted the question to the company's support forum, the question itself didn't get posted until 5 days later - as the moderator has to screen every single post. When it did appear, other user indicated same problem on other smart phone as well. I'm not the only one.
Edit: the forum blocked my complaint, and finally come back with a question - it remotely sounds like it cares, but the question is useless. If they read my post, they would have found the answer there. I feel like dealing with a communist government official - sensor everything, sloooooooooow to respond and defend every criticism ...
Papyrus 2.0 - the calendar layouts are reasonably flexible, so you can customize how you want to see all the activities. The search is very fast, even if I have more than 30 matches, they show up as soon as the program finds them. There is one thing I don't like, but I suspect I may be able to figure out a way to change, that is, I only want to see todos that are not yet completed on a daily basis. Even though I have that specified, it is still showing me the todos that are already marked complete (not all of them, just the ones that have no dates associated with). To me, they are done, they are done. Why would I want to look at them everyday just because their complete dates were not marked? Other than that, everything seems to be pretty good. They've got nice colors just like Agenda One, and price is about the same.
Agendus Pro - Agendus Pro has a rich set of nice features - in addition to the regular calendar/todo/contact views, you can also access call log, email, quote of the day, day in history, weather forecast, and stock quote all from this application. I didn't think about these before, but, they are very nice to have. The cost of this product is no more than the others. Another nice feature - there is a tool bar (either on top or bottom of the screen) you can use to select the format of display (day view, week view, month view, list, contact, email, etc, etc. With the other products (Agenda One, and Papyrus), you have to press the view soft bottom, which brings up another screen that let you select the format. Agendus layout is more intuitive and direct.
Having said all of that, I do have a couple of complaints -
- Agendus Pro take up 3.7 MB, whereas Papyrus - 700 KB, Agenda One - 966 KB. These are the cab size, I know that Agendus Pro includes several language supports, which contribute to the bigger CAB size. Nevertheless, the memory foot print is still the biggest among the 3.
- my 2nd complaint is that when you load the program just to look at some details in an appointment, the program starts and you don't see anything in the calendar - it tells you that you don't have any activity. Then, a little box flashes "initializing ...", "initializing ...", "initializing ..." ... My screen went out 4 times before I can finally see the content of my day's calendar. If it takes less memory, I may just keep it running, which would not have the "initializing ..." problem. Since the program takes up so much memory, I don't want to keep it in the memory. This is a deal killer for me. It's too bad. I like the features a lot.
Edit: Since the above was written, I've tried two more software packages. Nothing stood out. One fenomenal ability make Papyrus shine among all the others is how fast the search function performs. Everyone else wait, and wait, and wait until they've collected all the matches and put them on the screen all at once. If you have a sizable database (mine has about 2000 entries), you'll be staring at a blank screen with a spinning wheel forever, the screen saver would kick in multiple times. Whereas Papyrus' search shows you the match results as it progresses through the database. Maybe the match I am looking for is the first couple out of 50, why would I need to wait until it finds 50 before showing me first two? That's just a simply logic. I don't get what the other developers were thinking ....
Needless to say, Papyrus 2.0 becomes my choice. Their forum is great, too! Very happy about this decision
thanks!

What's Still Missing from Windows Phone 7

Source: pocketnow.com
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As Chuong reported earlier today, a handful of tech reviewers have gotten to spend a couple of weeks with a Windows Phone 7 prototype devices made by Samsung called the Taylor. Overall the sentiment towards Windows Phone 7 is positive: reviewers agree that the operating system is generally well thought out, that it performs very well (with nearly no lag when jumping around the operating system), and that it has the potential to be a true contender in the mobile platform space.
After digging through several of these reviews, it's clear that there are a handful of features still missing from Windows Phone 7, some of which will be addressed by the time the platform launches this fall, but many of which will not. Here's a list:
- No Twitter integration
- No copy and paste
- No third-party multitasking
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
- No dedicated YouTube application
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
- No global email inbox
- No threaded email
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
- No universal search
Some of these aren't too big of a deal and are very specific to use case scenarios that not everyone will experience (like adding multiple email accounts to a phone, etc). But some of the big ones like the lack of multitasking and Twitter integration could provide a reason for potential buyers to go with another smartphone platform.

ATHiEST said:
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do it relatively easily if you don't use Facebook directly but via Live, I think.

My 2 cents:
- No Twitter integration
Stupid when Facebook is there
- No copy and paste
Discussed so many times yet still unbelievable.
- No third-party multitasking
May be in the future?
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
Very bad indeed.
- No dedicated YouTube application
Will be I believe.
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
Crazy.
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
That will be a really annoying thing. What if I DON'T have Facebook??!!
- No global email inbox
??
- No threaded email
I don't care.
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
Again a stupid, strange step BACKWARDS
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
Hmmm....
- No universal search
Awesome :-(
To sum it up, well....
I have to touch it of course.
But comparing this to WM 6.5 I see the main change will be interface itself.
Regarding functionality - so many things missing as hell.

yup, W7 is looking like a bag of sh*t

ATHiEST said:
- No Twitter integration
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's already several Twitter apps for WP7 - The notification system allows seamlessly integration.
ATHiEST said:
- No copy and paste
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the 2000 other threads on this -- c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread.
ATHiEST said:
- No third-party multitasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same as above.
ATHiEST said:
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. No HTML5 support, mainly because it's still a draft.
ATHiEST said:
- No dedicated YouTube application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Write one, or let Google do that. I don't think Google would like Microsoft to write one for sure.
ATHiEST said:
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Invalid. Better Office integration than any other phone on the market.
ATHiEST said:
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Invalid, as there's no public phones out, you can't know this, thus it's a lie.
ATHiEST said:
- No global email inbox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong
ATHiEST said:
- No threaded email
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The email application ain't done yet, where's your proof?
ATHiEST said:
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the search-button
ATHiEST said:
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither is on any other phone in the world.
ATHiEST said:
- No universal search
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uniform search-api and seach-button support for all applications. Universal makes little sense.
ATHiEST said:
Some of these aren't too big of a deal and are very specific to use case scenarios that not everyone will experience (like adding multiple email accounts to a phone, etc). But some of the big ones like the lack of multitasking and Twitter integration could provide a reason for potential buyers to go with another smartphone platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multitasking is the LEAST important problem. When do you fools start realizing this?
And again, Twitter is just yet-another-application. Android and iPhone don't have Twitter support either, there's just 20 different Twitter apps for each platform.

@Windcape
As well as you have great valid points,
I must say that this of your sentence:
"c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread."
Where did you get that?!
It's a CRUICAL feature on any device.
Maybe you're this person who don't use it, maybe you never do
any serious stuff on your device, but why do you spread here such a false and pointlesss information?! It's the same as you'd say that a phone doesn't need a speaker.
It's the basic function, present on any mobile OS since 2000,
and also supported even by those who wanted to omit it and tell people they know better.
It's a BASIC function with any txt work, whether it's office, mail.
Man, how hard is it to get it? Or what false logic brought you to this senseless conclusion?
I hope you'll never be responsible for any serious development with such false statements.

No, it's not a crucial feature. The navigation-handlers allows for much better transitions than using c&p.
A smartphone is not a PC -- People use it differently, and copy&paste doesn't make sense. A lot of you might think it's easy to implement for text, and partially is (WP7 only supports Unicode, there's your first challenge), but for random objects (images, binary, etc.) it's a completely other story.
Instead of just repeating yet another "omg no copy&paste", then perhaps read some of the lengthy discussions about the subject, instead of believing in it in blind faith.
I would ask the relevant user groups, and have their reaction. Nerds who think they need c&p, but actually never use it, are not a relevant user group. Ask people who got a iPhone or Android if they uses copy&paste often, or if they missed it on previous versions of the iPhone. They'll probably say no.
Hell, where I need it most is in my browser, and Android's default browser have such terrible support, that it doesn't work anyway. I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links.
This argument is getting tiresome. Can we move on to something else? Like complaining about lack of socket APIs and SL4 support?

Windcape - some of those are legit. There is no way to downselect your FB friends, no threaded email, and no unified/global email inbox. See the many reviews for evidence. While it's not quite done, it's pretty darn close. They have to give the OEMs lead time in order to be able to manufacture devices with the RTM code on it.
But to the OP et al, see this post on WMPowerUsers which echos my sentiments very closely. Basically, calm down... take a deep breath.

Windcape said:
No, it's not a crucial feature. The navigation-handlers allows for much better transitions than using c&p.
A smartphone is not a PC -- People use it differently, and copy&paste doesn't make sense. A lot of you might think it's easy to implement for text, and partially is (WP7 only supports Unicode, there's your first challenge), but for random objects (images, binary, etc.) it's a completely other story.
Instead of just repeating yet another "omg no copy&paste", then perhaps read some of the lengthy discussions about the subject, instead of believing in it in blind faith.
I would ask the relevant user groups, and have their reaction. Nerds who think they need c&p, but actually never use it, are not a relevant user group. Ask people who got a iPhone or Android if they uses copy&paste often, or if they missed it on previous versions of the iPhone. They'll probably say no.
Hell, where I need it most is in my browser, and Android's default browser have such terrible support, that it doesn't work anyway. I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links.
This argument is getting tiresome. Can we move on to something else? Like complaining about lack of socket APIs and SL4 support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen, are you reading with comprehension?!
Who gave you the right to call me nerd huh?
I think you're rather nerd who doesn't really speak on the topic.
Don't tell me or anybody else how we actually use our devices!
How do you know? Have we met?
You're incompetent troll, like somebody else stated in other thread.
Maybe go to other forums instead of telling complete lies here.
Also your sentence:
"I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links."
Has NOTHING to do with work on txt!
Please move away from here with your "maybe" and "probably".

If it's actually based on hands-on reviews, then I'll agree it might be considered a problem.
The thing is, half of the articles out there complaining about the phone, is basing it off data from Feburary/March, or unlocked emulators -- both I consider highly invalid.
And I'm calm, I'm just annoyed we got 50 threads with focus on multitasking and c&p, which is the most irrelevant problems there is from a developer perspective.
I find it much bigger issues that the phone only support Unicode, don't have socket APIs yet (because it runs SL2/SL3, and not SL4). And a few other things here and there which is vital to application development.
People keep nitpicking about the least important issues, which sadly removes focus from the important problems.

doministry said:
Listen, are you reading with comprehension?!
Who gave you the right to call me nerd huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're posting on a forum for mobile hackers, that means we're nerds
doministry said:
Don't tell me or anybody else how we actually use our devices! How do you know? Have we met?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's more likely that technical interested people focus on more technical features.
Most people who buy a iPhone 4 don't buy it because it can do copy&paste, but because it looks awesome, and have a fantastic screen (Retina Display).
doministry said:
"I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links."
Has NOTHING to do with work on txt!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It have everything to do with regular phone use. Copying links, email addresses and phone numbers.
The phone isn't meant to be a Blackberry replacement, or a notepad replacement for editing Excel spreadsheets on the run.

One last thing:
You can implement copy&paste internally in your application. It's just c&p data between applications that's not supported.
I guess that helps a lot for your office/spreadsheeting edition, no?

ATHiEST said:
- No Twitter integration
- No copy and paste
- No third-party multitasking
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
- No dedicated YouTube application
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
- No global email inbox
- No threaded email
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
- No universal search
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- Twitter will be back working with Windows Live soon. Twitter changed their APIs a month or two ago, and Microsoft need to update things to make it work again.
- Copy and Paste is coming in a future update
- Multitasking is also planned to be out in a future update
- Flash is coming in a few months after launch, Silverlight we don't know about
- We may see a YouTube app come from Google after launch, if not flash will work in the browser so that's all good
- As a start, the Office tools on Windows Phone 7 are good for basic editing, and collaboration. More features may come, but I do question if you need much more really, with such a small screen.
- We know when adding a Google account, you can choose to add all or only some of these options: Contacts, Calendar, Email. It is possible facebook integration can be done in the same way, but I don't use facebook, so I am not too fussed. However thanks to the Quick Jump List controls, you can click the letter in the blue box, and choose a letter to find your contact. Or even press the search button to find a contact.
- I actually prefer the idea of having a separation between my Live Mail and Outlook Email inboxes, and is a great way to maintain your work life balance if you are using the Phone for work, and personal uses. You do have a combined calendar, which does make sense, because you only have on schedule at a time
- Threaded mail, or conversation view, will be coming, you should know this as Outlook and Hotmail now support it.
- This one I agree with, I would like a button appear below the arrow on the left, to switch to flat list, category, favourites, or alphabetical sorting, using the Quick Jump Lists.
- Well, this is a trial and error thing, you don't get told when you have a right click menu available, there is no indicator, you just expect it and find it for yourself.
- If the Hub/App doesn't have internal search, the search button will pull up bing. In future dev tools, they will provide an API to override the search button as you can the back button presently. Patience, my friend, Patience!

Windcape said:
c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windcape said:
Write one, or let Google do that. I don't think Google would like Microsoft to write one for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, these two statements contradict each other somewhat. By far the two most often reasons for me to watch a video on Youtube are a) watching embedded videos on web sites and b) getting a link in an email. Now, pray tell, how am I going to watch those videos in a third party application in a sandboxed environment without a way to open a URL directly in this application or without an ability to copy and paste this URL there? Let's say on many web sites I can search for the video if it's properly named, but what about this link in an email? Am I supposed to memorize it and type into the app? Or maybe write it down on a piece of paper?
I would certainly prefer it if links to videos opened directly in this Youtube app (or better yet, a standalone flash/video/html5/whatever player), that would be a "smartlinking" scenario that I would prefer to c&p. But that's not available either. C&P may be a kludge, but in the less than perfect world we live in those are often needed.
Windcape said:
And again, Twitter is just yet-another-application. Android and iPhone don't have Twitter support either, there's just 20 different Twitter apps for each platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now let's be consistent please. If we like the way data from multiple sources is integrated in WP7, a Twitter app isn't a perfect solution.
Twitter will be there though. It will be supported in Windows Live or separately. It's missing temporarily in the current version as Twitter changed their API or something like that.

@Windcape
Are you a tard??
a) I didn't write the review so stop quoting me as if I wrote the list and the trying to contradict me.
b) Dont need copy and paste? are you on crack? You must be because I can see endless list or reasons why its a MUST!
c) The review is NOT from a emulator its a HANDS ON review of a prototype phone!
Also people remember this isnt a list of what will NOT be in WP7, its basically a round up of features currently still not in WP7, OBVIOUSLY its not finished and will have more to come.
Either way I still think the OS looks like sh*t, But the flashaholic in me will still end up flashing it to my HD2 when/if its ported.

a) It's easier to quote you to respond to the points. Why is that a problem? Wasn't the whole point with quoting the important points of the article to turn them into a discussion?
b) No, and there's little reason to be rude.
c) O'rly

vangrieg said:
Now, pray tell, how am I going to watch those videos in a third party application in a sandboxed environment without a way to open a URL directly in this application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A 3rd party application will be able to register a navigation handler so you can open youtube links in a youtube application if necessary. Just like Skype plugin for PC browsers today.
vangrieg said:
but what about this link in an email? Am I supposed to memorize it and type into the app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Navigation handlers will also apply to emails.
Basically you'll just have to click it. Much easier than copy, change application, paste, and activate it.
vangrieg said:
that would be a "smartlinking" scenario that I would prefer to c&p. But that's not available either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is? That's how it's intended to be, and why Microsoft don't consider c&p a priority atm.
vangrieg said:
Now let's be consistent please. If we like the way data from multiple sources is integrated in WP7, a Twitter app isn't a perfect solution.
Twitter will be there though. It will be supported in Windows Live or separately. It's missing temporarily in the current version as Twitter changed their API or something like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, on the "other" mobile platforms Twitter is just yet-another-application. If Microsoft integrates it in Windows Live, it's just better than the others.
It's not a loss either way.

Windcape said:
A 3rd party application will be able to register a navigation handler so you can open youtube links in a youtube application if necessary. Just like Skype plugin for PC browsers today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would solve the problem indeed, but could you provide a source for this information? This is the first time I hear about a way for a third party application to meddle with IE/mail client behavior in WP7, and when I asked Brandon Watson he said nothing like that would be possible.

Dude, there is a edit button, no need to keep double posting. Oh and YES "rly", read the topic.
btw, what about copy and pasting files?, or even blocks of txt's like in a document or web page for example or am I missing something here, that seems a pretty simple but integral part of windows to me, ffs this isnt apple its windows.

Applications have access to the internet, and files on the internet, it just cannot run in the background or access local files outside of its own local isolated storage. (unless there is a task, launcher, or chooser available to apps)
Native Twitter feeds will be coming soon, Windows Live had it until Twitter changed some APIs, and it will be brought back.
Microsoft have not said Copy & Paste is not a priority, only that in order to get the phone out in time for an Autumn/Winter release, and that it will be coming soon.

What frustrates you about an app?

So I'm working on a post for my site. It's going to be a list about things a developer does with an application that frustrates us as users. The goal is to highlight common complains from the community about practices devs use in their apps and to hopefully encourage them with feedback to improve.
This is the list I've got so far. Please feel free to chime in if you agree or disagree and ADD any things that bug you as a USER.
--Lack of a live tile: One of the biggest differences on our platforms and others is the inclusion of live tiles. If it makes sense for the application, a live tile is a must. I'm hard pressed to find a large category of apps where a live tile wouldn't make sense at some basic level.
--No fast app switching: No explanation needed, devs get with it.
--Not playing nice with Metro: You make an app for iOS or Android and now you want to port it Windows Phone as fast as possible...so fast you don't think about the design. Great apps on Windows Phone are those that capitalize on the principles of the design language.
--Have both a paid and free version of an app: Do a search for an app in the Market or App Store and you'll get two versions for a lot of popular apps: the free and paid version. There is NO reason why you would need to do that with Windows Phone. Devs have the ability to implement a 'trial' state of an application where they can do everything and more a 'free' version of an app could. Stop cluttering the Marketplace.
--Redirecting to a website: I once downloaded a sports app that had potential. I opened the app and played around. There was a pivot page that had a section for news. Clicked it...and bam. IE is opening up. Nope, no thank you. I want to use your app now your website.
These are some of the big themes that I've encountered more than I should when playing around with apps. This is not a major problem, but it's there and it really shouldn't be.
Also I'm not trying to put developers down, I know it's hard work and I myself am trying to learn as well. But we should strive for something better.
Alright, sound off with some feedback guys. Any other 'sins against users' I've missed that you encounter? I'd like to see what you think before I write the post on my site.
ALSOOOO.... How about you list some apps that contain these 'sins against users'. That way we can politely invite the developer to hear our thoughts and implement changes that benefit everyone. Happy users = $, $= happy dev.

All these are minor.. My biggest complaint is when push notification is either delayed or doesnt come at all. I've missed some important whatsapp messages cause it was delayed 10 mins.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

samsabri said:
[...]
--Have both a paid and free version of an app: Do a search for an app in the Market or App Store and you'll get two versions for a lot of popular apps: the free and paid version. There is NO reason why you would need to do that with Windows Phone. Devs have the ability to implement a 'trial' state of an application where they can do everything and more a 'free' version of an app could. Stop cluttering the Marketplace.
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.

Marvin_S said:
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. Some devs don't mention what the trial offers(time-limited or function-limited) and hence I stay away from such paid apps. Sometimes the trial is fully functional with ads. Agreed that the devs were lazy to not include it in the description, but some users are lazy too. That would be the reason for two versions of the app.

it not being available at all.
or how about it's free on android or ios, but $3 on wp7... wtf?

Marvin_S said:
As I agree with what you are posting, I think you missed the point on this one.
It's true that this is cluttering the marketplace, but people like to hand out a "FREE" version from a marketing persepective. There is a seperate column with "free" apps, hence it will be easier to stand out with both a free and paid app...
Also if you have a fully functional free trial (with only an add) it is still being noted as paid app, so you miss everybody who has no credit card, they will automatically overlook a paid app, even if it has a free unlimited trial (well there are always exceptions of course, but those account mostly for "high profile" apps/games).
This is the main reason, that without uploading 2 apps, there is an unfair disadvantage for the dev.
But I agree it is annoying but from a developer perspective it makes a lot of sense why people do this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I understand the marketing angle. I guess I live in some fantasy land in my head where the world is clean and organized. Hopefully with the Windows 8 Marketplace offering devs simliliar options in how they can implement trials we'll see less "free" apps because users may come expect every paid app to come with a trial.

svtfmook said:
it not being available at all.
or how about it's free on android or ios, but $3 on wp7... wtf?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is something I missed, I how they determine the price difference between platforms?
Off the top of your head, do any apps come to mind where there is a big price difference in platforms? Exclude Xbox Live enabled games for a moment, the reason being I can see the inclusion of achievements, leaderboards, etc to be the cause of the price bump.

I'm in need of a map/location/gps app, that supports offline map caching . while I found couple of them on marketplace, ones that had nice design an functionality, all of them where online only and ones that had offline map caching had terrible design an absolutely no functionality. thats sad
design and functionality should be put first IMO

Inconsistent Resuming and Lack of Tombstoning
Once an app leaves the foreground you have two methods of returning to it: use the app switcher or hitting the tile on your Start screen. Going from the app switcher resumes as expected, but going from the Start screen restarts the app, even if it's already sitting in the background. Now this is probably something Microsoft has to fix, but I feel that if more apps tombstoned, then it could make things more consistent.

samsabri said:
That is something I missed, I how they determine the price difference between platforms?
Off the top of your head, do any apps come to mind where there is a big price difference in platforms? Exclude Xbox Live enabled games for a moment, the reason being I can see the inclusion of achievements, leaderboards, etc to be the cause of the price bump.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes if they would note next to the price tag of each app wheter it contains a Trial version, it is less needed for devs to release a seperate "Lite" version. However the problem is now you have to click the app first than wait until the buttons show up in order to find out wheter an app has a free trial.
This should be there on the big scroll list so a user will see at first glance wheter he/she can try the app for free. At the moment I can't blame dev's for introducing their own workarounds.
But what is more annoying to me is that if devs follow metro design and don't use the margins correctly. Hence the app looks odd in comparison to the native apps, i.e. a lot of chat apps mimick the messaging app but don't pay attention to the margins, the bubble sizes and the bubble alignments, which will make them look very unprofessional. This is sad because they did take the effort to stylize the app like Metro, but they ruined the experience because of not "understanding" the fundamentals of the design language. Which is not just typography but also clever and precise use of margins, shapes and spacings. And since there is not much chrome, every tiny offset or error stands out to a trained eye instantly.

Marvin_S said:
Yes if they would note next to the price tag of each app wheter it contains a Trial version, it is less needed for devs to release a seperate "Lite" version. However the problem is now you have to click the app first than wait until the buttons show up in order to find out wheter an app has a free trial.
This should be there on the big scroll list so a user will see at first glance wheter he/she can try the app for free. At the moment I can't blame dev's for introducing their own workarounds.
But what is more annoying to me is that if devs follow metro design and don't use the margins correctly. Hence the app looks odd in comparison to the native apps, i.e. a lot of chat apps mimick the messaging app but don't pay attention to the margins, the bubble sizes and the bubble alignments, which will make them look very unprofessional. This is sad because they did take the effort to stylize the app like Metro, but they ruined the experience because of not "understanding" the fundamentals of the design language. Which is not just typography but also clever and precise use of margins, shapes and spacings. And since there is not much chrome, every tiny offset or error stands out to a trained eye instantly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think going forward an ideal scenario would be a user expects to have a trial mode for any app that a dev is asking money for. It's a win-win for both consumers and developers. Check out this post from Paul Laberge explaining some of the benefits of a trial mode.
Seems like your second paragraph is echoing the statement to follow metro design language/principles and aim for higher quality control in regards to the design.
It's interesting, I feel like 5 years ago software was all about being functional with no regard to design. Now we not only demand, but expect applications to function well and look beautiful. Exciting times

karan1203 said:
All these are minor.. My biggest complaint is when push notification is either delayed or doesnt come at all. I've missed some important whatsapp messages cause it was delayed 10 mins.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are those faults of the developer or the platform itself? I ask because I don't know a lot of the technical workings behind the push notification system. My limited knowledge tells me it might be a mix of both parties to blame.
Can anyone clarify?

apps?
For sure about Notifications part.
Push Notification can be useful "ONLY" when you have the phone right in front of your face. Because right after that, they are gone forever.
Second, Push Notification usually have a delay , about a half to 2 mins, from the actual event.
Like my friend can post a thing on my Facebook Wall, and the phone took about 2 mins to update it to the ME title. Same with all other Applications.
I used to try hacking the ROM and Registry of the Phone to reduce the delay of the Title Update. But failed so hard because Microsoft really locked it up hard.

I think most of the annoyances are captured already in the initial post but I'll also add
-That some apps are still being released without mango capability.
-Some apps are just the mobile site (for example the tagged app wtf?)

prohibido_por_la_ley said:
I think most of the annoyances are captured already in the initial post but I'll also add
-That some apps are still being released without mango capability.
-Some apps are just the mobile site (for example the tagged app wtf?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was hoping I'd cover the most obvious complaints, but wanted to reach out and see if anything was missing. Also venting is good for us
And regarding Tagged...? Wow... I just looked at it on the web Marketplace and I won't let something that hideous touch my phone. It's just lazy and doesn't add any value to users or devs. Users get nothing out of it and as a dev what have you accomplished?
Apps like that should not pass certification. It seems draconian, but it's ok for us to demand and expect quality work.

wixostrix said:
...but going from the Start screen restarts the app, even if it's already sitting in the background.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is (or was pre-Mango) a requirement to have your app certified. The rules say/said that a user returning to a task via the Back button is trying to complete an interupted task; a user launching the app from Start is starting a new task and shouldn't be presented with abandoned work from earlier.
I have a calculator app that maintains full state across invocations. I was worried that MS would reject the app because it preserved state even upon restarting. They did accept it, though.

Worst thing for me is wasted screen space.
A good example is the official WP7 Facebook app. Go to the "wall" screen, and you have "FACEBOOK" then "Most Recent" then "What's on your mind?" all permanently stuck at the top. Space is also wasted at both sides, meaning that only 50-60% of the screen is actually available to display your friends wall posts.
I thought the idea of Metro is to "put information first", so this is ridiculous. I have a phone with a 3.7" screen, yet the facebook app is more readable on my friends 3" non-widescreen Blackberry.

Aphasaic2002 said:
Worst thing for me is wasted screen space.
A good example is the official WP7 Facebook app. Go to the "wall" screen, and you have "FACEBOOK" then "Most Recent" then "What's on your mind?" all permanently stuck at the top. Space is also wasted at both sides, meaning that only 50-60% of the screen is actually available to display your friends wall posts.
I thought the idea of Metro is to "put information first", so this is ridiculous. I have a phone with a 3.7" screen, yet the facebook app is more readable on my friends 3" non-widescreen Blackberry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hear you on that Facebook app. Thankfully the integration with Windows Phone makes it so that I haven't opened it in months. I check FB once a day on the browser at home before bed, but that's about it.
But I'll chalk this complaint under the 'design abuse' category.
Anyone have any other apps that violate some of our sins in the original post in this thread?

I'd like to see improvements with the sound handeling. Most games have a 'music volume' and a 'FX volume' it seems the volume % is boolean, 0% is silent, 10%-100% is full volume. I'd like to listen to my music while gaming without the Pew Pew causing my ears to bleed

[Q] JB: "Complete action using" behaviour adding an extra click?

So far the land of JB offers lots of goodies. I'm thinking of staying here but there is one big challenge for me - the new way "Complete action using" behaves. I need to select the app then I need to do an "extra click" to pick "Always" vs "Just once". That's the reverse behaviour from anything below 4.1 that I've seen in may years of flashing. Any chance to set this to reduce that extra click, ie toggle for making an app the default one for the action?
IE. I get a link, I click on it, it prompts me which browser I want to use and if I select Firefox from the list, I'd like the page to open in FF, no extra selection. I go back, out of FF, select the same link, the same list pops up and I select Chrome, again without having to do the extra click "Just once"?
TIA, Marv
GNex with bigxie's [ROM][GSM]Jellybean 4.1 JRN84D

Click always instead of just once...
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

It's the same as it has always been. Just choose the app you want to keep using and click always.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

DirgeExtinction said:
It's the same as it has always been. Just choose the app you want to keep using and click always.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's not. I agree with the OP. It is a very annoying and backwards feature. In ICS and below, the menu that popped up, you could click your suitable app and it would know it was "just once" but now we have to click the suitable app and click also just once. I use stuff where I don't want it to always remember, I always want the choice, whether to use Root Explorer or Gallery, whether to use stock browser, or Chrome, and whether to use Google Music, Youtube, or Poweramp (etc. you get my point). And yes, when you're using that many "hotlinks" often enough, it can get very tedious and annoying. Sorry for my mini-rant, it's just stupid. But OP, I think there might be an apk you can flash that will revert it to ICS... or flash an ICS apk over. I will look for it.

This sounds really annoying. I have many apps that I don't set a default, like browser for example I use different browsers all the time so I don't set a default. Its currently just one click. If JB adds a second confirmation pop up then that is really dumb.

anton2009 said:
No, it's not. I agree with the OP. It is a very annoying and backwards feature. In ICS and below, the menu that popped up, you could click your suitable app and it would know it was "just once" but now we have to click the suitable app and click also just once. I use stuff where I don't want it to always remember, I always want the choice, whether to use Root Explorer or Gallery, whether to use stock browser, or Chrome, and whether to use Google Music, Youtube, or Poweramp (etc. you get my point). And yes, when you're using that many "hotlinks" often enough, it can get very tedious and annoying. Sorry for my mini-rant, it's just stupid. But OP, I think there might be an apk you can flash that will revert it to ICS... or flash an ICS apk over. I will look for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you anton2009 for not only reading my question but understanding it! With 99% of the "smart" users in forums never bothering to read the question I had given up on posting. But I almost always found the answers to my questions before even needing to post one. In this case, I was puzzled no one talked about JB doubling the number of clicks vs ICS and below when one simply wants to run different apps in different situations from the same link. Like you, I test links with different browsers when I develop mobile sites/apps and listen to music with different apps, some times I use youtube to play on my devices, some times I use youtuberemote to beam it to my TV. This "just once" kills me and I'm almost ready to go back to AOKP or give CM9 (now with JB kernel) another run.
If anyone finds an apk, or prop or anything that reverts the Complete action using behaviour, please please pleeeease let me know
Happy Canada Day for those up here and those who celebrate or care.
Marv

I think I'm getting close:
public static final String ACTION_CHOOSER
Since: API Level 1
Activity Action: Display an activity chooser, allowing the user to pick what they want to before proceeding. This can be used as an alternative to the standard activity picker that is displayed by the system when you try to start an activity with multiple possible matches, with these differences in behavior:
You can specify the title that will appear in the activity chooser.
The user does not have the option to make one of the matching activities a preferred activity, and all possible activities will always be shown even if one of them is currently marked as the preferred activity.
This action should be used when the user will naturally expect to select an activity in order to proceed. An example if when not to use it is when the user clicks on a "mailto:" link. They would naturally expect to go directly to their mail app, so startActivity() should be called directly: it will either launch the current preferred app, or put up a dialog allowing the user to pick an app to use and optionally marking that as preferred.
In contrast, if the user is selecting a menu item to send a picture they are viewing to someone else, there are many different things they may want to do at this point: send it through e-mail, upload it to a web service, etc. In this case the CHOOSER action should be used, to always present to the user a list of the things they can do, with a nice title given by the caller such as "Send this photo with:".
If you need to grant URI permissions through a chooser, you must specify the permissions to be granted on the ACTION_CHOOSER Intent in addition to the EXTRA_INTENT inside. This means using setClipData(ClipData) to specify the URIs to be granted as well as FLAG_GRANT_READ_URI_PERMISSION and/or FLAG_GRANT_WRITE_URI_PERMISSION as appropriate.
As a convenience, an Intent of this form can be created with the createChooser(Intent, CharSequence) function.
Input: No data should be specified. get*Extra must have a EXTRA_INTENT field containing the Intent being executed, and can optionally have a EXTRA_TITLE field containing the title text to display in the chooser.
Output: Depends on the protocol of EXTRA_INTENT.
Constant Value: "android.intent.action.CHOOSER"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link
I just need to find where the UI is for the standard activity picker, so we can replace it with an older version
public static final String ACTION_PICK_ACTIVITY
Since: API Level 1
Activity Action: Pick an activity given an intent, returning the class selected.
Input: get*Extra field EXTRA_INTENT is an Intent used with queryIntentActivities(Intent, int) to determine the set of activities from which to pick.
Output: Class name of the activity that was selected.
Constant Value: "android.intent.action.PICK_ACTIVITY"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Link

This is how it used to be:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
If just clicking on "just once" bugs you, then geez.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

I agree it's super frustrating having to do this every time, i had hoped a double tap or something would have been baked in as an alternative.

DirgeExtinction said:
This is how it used to be:
View attachment 1169697
If just clicking on "just once" bugs you, then geez.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's exactly how it's always been. You're provided with a list of possible apps and you click the one you like to use that one time. If you find you keep using that one only, you could make this permanent and you're no longer prompted.
The behaviour I was hoping to see in JB4.1 was to still have the list of apps but to have it focused on the one I used the most or the last time. In 90% of the time I'd use YouTube to listen on my devices but in 10% of the time I'll use YouTubeRemote or TwonkyBeam or something else. If the list is long, I'd love to see it scrolled to the point where YouTube is in the middle and has the focus. The "Always" check-mark or selection is not even needed. One could long-touch the app they want to make favorite and be prompted if "Always", "Remove Always" or "Something else" would be the chosen behaviour from now on.
Thanks Android gets lots of attention from smart Devs and I'm sure someone will "fix" this soon.
Marv
I still can't believe Google devs made such a bad choice and probably 4.1.1 will correct this. Butter made tons of stuff smoother and faster but to add a double selection to every app start is baaaad :crying:

I personally enjoy this way of choosing a default app better than previous versions.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

Could there be legal reasons for this? As I recall, the HTC One X was stopped by Apple regarding a patent on this action chooser when clicking on phone numbers.

Apple "invented" hotlinking it seems (to wich it holds a patent), just like they invented everything since the wheel, and google decided to work around this, as to avoid another pointless lawsuit from apple for something apple didn't even come up with, but holds the patent to.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus.

Melhouse said:
Could there be legal reasons for this? As I recall, the HTC One X was stopped by Apple regarding a patent on this action chooser when clicking on phone numbers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely a good thought. Does this even solve the problem as a work around? Maybe...

Copearch piger,
We all hear that Apple invented everything... it's ugly. The whole patent thing needs to go away, or I can't go to the washroom at the cottage - the sliding door opener has been there since late 1880-ies but now I know Apple invented it.
Back to my issue - I don't see how this is different in Linux, or even Windows 3.1 from last century. You click on a file with some .ext and you get to choose which app opens it from a list or possible ones and you might select one of them to be the default. I can't think of any other OS where you get the list, have to select the app and yet, have to make one more selection/click to say "just once". It just doubles the effort which was not a goal of Butter.
And to admin how much I hate that behaviour. After 4 days on JB4.1, I flashed CM9-nightly-Jul.1st last night.

Just relax. Once official code is released and custom roms are being created im sure someone will mod it.
DO YOU JELLY?

It seems that opening a new thread about this has caused way more unneeded clicks than you'll ever rack up by this change.

kevinjgray88 said:
Just relax. Once official code is released and custom roms are being created im sure someone will mod it.
DO YOU JELLY?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I see happening once the source code is released
Sent from a mostly harmless planet

So, when I was in looking at one of the cards (for train times) I was presented with a number of options (maps, chrome, something else) I clicked chrome (and selected always). What I really wanted to do was select maps!!
Is there anyway to go back and change this for this specific action?

redmongoose said:
So, when I was in looking at one of the cards (for train times) I was presented with a number of options (maps, chrome, something else) I clicked chrome (and selected always). What I really wanted to do was select maps!!
Is there anyway to go back and change this for this specific action?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have to go into the app's (Chrome) settings and clear defaults. This app makes it a little quicker https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pxlib.android.defaultappset

Inconsistencies in Jelly Bean

Hey guys, came across this great article about jelly bean and I wonder what you guys think about it. I really agree with some of the points he makes.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/09/18/ux-things-i-hate-about-android/

Read this article as well and yes he does make some good and valid points. However, Android is still a work in progress according to Matias Duarte. As much as Jelly Bean has improved the user experience there is still a ways to go to polishing the OS.
Here is a good follow up article you might want to check out:
http://www.androidcentral.com/duarte-i-m-third-way-where-i-want-be-android

He makes some good points, but also shows that he doesn't seem to understand Android programming at all.
If you open something within an app directly from a widget (his Gmail example), then obviously the back key would go one layer higher within the app. Opening an email from a widget layers home->gmail->email, not home->email.
Also, icons opening the "wrong" app. He uses Maps and Latitude as an example. Well, considering that Latitude is built on the Maps framework (and presumably calls an instance of Maps in order to operate), it makes complete sense that opening Maps would open the active Latitude session when one exists.
Other items just seemed like whining. For example, the section regarding the Google Voice icon. He makes the base assumption that people use it primarily for texting when texting is certainly not the primary function of the app. The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling. Texting is easily a tertiary function, even if it has been embraced by the community. [Edit: As mentioned below, I was incorrect regarding VOIP, which would make texting the secondary function of the app.]
Don't get me wrong. There were some good points, but I was shaking my head through a lot of that article.

Cilraaz said:
The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is no voip from the google voice app itself. when you make a call with it, it basically calls the GV number + the number you are actually wanting to call.

Zepius said:
there is no voip from the google voice app itself. when you make a call with it, it basically calls the GV number + the number you are actually wanting to call.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake. I assumed it was VOIP rather than call-chaining, based on the app prompting if Voice should be used for international calls. So at that point, texting would become the secondary function.
Thanks for the info.

Cilraaz said:
He makes some good points, but also shows that he doesn't seem to understand Android programming at all.
If you open something within an app directly from a widget (his Gmail example), then obviously the back key would go one layer higher within the app. Opening an email from a widget layers home->gmail->email, not home->email.
Also, icons opening the "wrong" app. He uses Maps and Latitude as an example. Well, considering that Latitude is built on the Maps framework (and presumably calls an instance of Maps in order to operate), it makes complete sense that opening Maps would open the active Latitude session when one exists.
Other items just seemed like whining. For example, the section regarding the Google Voice icon. He makes the base assumption that people use it primarily for texting when texting is certainly not the primary function of the app. The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling. Texting is easily a tertiary function, even if it has been embraced by the community.
Don't get me wrong. There were some good points, but I was shaking my head through a lot of that article.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although you are totally right, you have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. And they won't think "hey, of course the back button goes to the underlying Gmail menu", they'll think "wtf.? I was on the home screen before I tapped that mail on the widget. Why did it take me into the Gmail overview now?"
The same is even more true for Latitude. It is obvious for us tech-enthusiasts that Latitude is just more or less a part of maps. But I guess most other people never even give a thought to this, so they're just confused why the Maps icon would open a (seemingly) completely different service.
Also I'm sure the author of the article knows all this as well as anybody. But he tries to look from the consumer's point of view.
To the article: I mostly agree with his points. Play store not remembering my scroll position and the different sizes of some icons (and even more the almost overlapping icon names sometimes) are things that bugged me too. But mixed UI designs and that calculator bug are just things that happen if you roll out such a major update with significant UI changes. It's nothing I get even slightly mad about.

qwer23 said:
Although you are totally right, you have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. And they won't think "hey, of course the back button goes to the underlying Gmail menu", they'll think "wtf.? I was on the home screen before I tapped that mail on the widget. Why did it take me into the Gmail overview now?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can understand it from a consumer's point of view, but how would it be resolved programmatically? If we start requiring a pointer to where a screen was opened from, you increase the memory footprint of every app. It might also cause some problems with app deconstruction. In the Gmail example, pressing the back button deconstructs the single email instance, but if a pointer were to tell it to go back to the home screen because we got to it from a widget, do we deconstruct the base Gmail app also? What if the widget puts you 4 layers into an app? Not only would the pointers again add to the app's memory footprint, but we have the deconstruction issue on a larger level.
I'm not the greatest programmer (especially in Java), but the "inelegant" way that it works now seems to have a few positives for both devs and users.
qwer23 said:
The same is even more true for Latitude. It is obvious for us tech-enthusiasts that Latitude is just more or less a part of maps. But I guess most other people never even give a thought to this, so they're just confused why the Maps icon would open a (seemingly) completely different service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand the consumer side of things, but is Maps opening Latitude more confusing than having Maps kill off Latitude? The user would then just try to re-open Latitude and be confused as to why the prior instance wasn't running. If Maps wouldn't kill off Latitude, then it would have to create a second instance of itself, which again has a negative impact on the app's memory footprint.
------------
I understand a general "hey, it should work like this instead", but there are plenty of reasons why it works the way it does now. Android might be able to get "perfect" functionality, but it would likely require some dumbing down of multitasking (either more process suspension instead of true(r) multitasking or the memory manager would be more likely to kill off background processes). I don't at all doubt these are discussions going on at Google, though.

Cilraaz said:
[...]
I understand a general "hey, it should work like this instead", but there are plenty of reasons why it works the way it does now. Android might be able to get "perfect" functionality, but it would likely require some dumbing down of multitasking (either more process suspension instead of true(r) multitasking or the memory manager would be more likely to kill off background processes). I don't at all doubt these are discussions going on at Google, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Cilraaz, you really shed some light upon the deeper reasons for the sometimes odd behaviour of the back button and app layers. I'm no programmer at all, so I didn't know all this would add to the memory footprint of the apps and would affect developing in such a major way.
After reading your post I suggest we can be happy with some minor incosistencies and enjoy true multitasking instead of dumbing down our phones Again thanks for your nice clarification!

Some good stuff in this thread.

"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"

crixley said:
"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what he complained about. He complained about the back button behaving inconsistently.

I find it actually works very logically. If i click on one email in my widget to read it and then use the back button to go back, it makes sense to be taken to my inbox so i can read more messages, instead of being taken back to home screen and selecting a new email from there. Its more practical in case you get like 10 emails at one, which won´t fit in the widget all at once anyway. If i wanted to go back to the home screen, hey there is the home button.

That sounds like one corner case where the behaviour works in your favor, that doesn't mean it's right. It used to work better. For example if you have Navigation open, and select and email from the notification then you are brought to the email. Then when you hit back it brings you to your Inbox (which you have no reason to go to) then when you hit back again it brings you to your home screen. In previous versions of Android when you hit back from the email you are reading it would take you directly back to Navigation. That is what you most likely want, and that is what the Android documentation says should happen. But all too often it does not.

Totally agree with this article. I love Jelly Bean, and Android, but ultimately, it lacks a hell of a lot of polish. This is where iOS is still leagues ahead (and for that matter, so is WP7/8), I forgive it because it is a very open and powerful platform, but it is still a platform for the techie, and has a long way to go before it is as friendly and approachable as its rivals IMO.
The same sorts of arguments have been leveled at PCs for years and are equally valid.
Like it or not, most people AREN'T techies and this is why the likes of Apple are so successful, because they understand this and bring out an OS that is generally intuitive to average joe. Ironically I find some of the ways their software works confusing in places (particularly OSX) but that is more down to my "techie" approach and being set in my ways, as most techies are.

Well, he has some valid ponts, but most of the time, he is wrong. Especially for the back button.

e34v8 said:
Well, he has some valid ponts, but most of the time, he is wrong. Especially for the back button.
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Could you please tell me how he is wrong, specially if Android documentation says that the function of back button is X, and, sometimes you get Y, sometimes you get Z, and sometimes you get X?
Either document that back button has a bunch of functions that no one knows until you use it in a given context with a given app, or, give it a consistent behavior (and I'm not discussing which one would be better).... It is understandable when 3rd party software doesn't behave 100% as documented, but, built in phone apps should be consistent and provide the same experience...

Great article. A lot of those things drive me nuts, the icon size and back button in particular.

Another annoying thing the back button does is, for example, if you have been using the Play Store before, then you open an app that links to a Play Store page. Once you have seen the page and press back, rather than it taking you back to the app, the back button will just traverse through all the pages that you have been looking at on the Play Store in your previous session.
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crixley said:
"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"
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Yeah I found that amusing as well.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

pfmiller said:
That sounds like one corner case where the behaviour works in your favor, that doesn't mean it's right. It used to work better. For example if you have Navigation open, and select and email from the notification then you are brought to the email. Then when you hit back it brings you to your Inbox (which you have no reason to go to) then when you hit back again it brings you to your home screen. In previous versions of Android when you hit back from the email you are reading it would take you directly back to Navigation. That is what you most likely want, and that is what the Android documentation says should happen. But all too often it does not.
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Maybe the "back" button should be replaced by a "higher level" (hope it's the right term ) button. Maybe in this case his function would be more logical.
However I agree on almost every point in the article