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As Chuong reported earlier today, a handful of tech reviewers have gotten to spend a couple of weeks with a Windows Phone 7 prototype devices made by Samsung called the Taylor. Overall the sentiment towards Windows Phone 7 is positive: reviewers agree that the operating system is generally well thought out, that it performs very well (with nearly no lag when jumping around the operating system), and that it has the potential to be a true contender in the mobile platform space.
After digging through several of these reviews, it's clear that there are a handful of features still missing from Windows Phone 7, some of which will be addressed by the time the platform launches this fall, but many of which will not. Here's a list:
- No Twitter integration
- No copy and paste
- No third-party multitasking
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
- No dedicated YouTube application
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
- No global email inbox
- No threaded email
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
- No universal search
Some of these aren't too big of a deal and are very specific to use case scenarios that not everyone will experience (like adding multiple email accounts to a phone, etc). But some of the big ones like the lack of multitasking and Twitter integration could provide a reason for potential buyers to go with another smartphone platform.
ATHiEST said:
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do it relatively easily if you don't use Facebook directly but via Live, I think.
My 2 cents:
- No Twitter integration
Stupid when Facebook is there
- No copy and paste
Discussed so many times yet still unbelievable.
- No third-party multitasking
May be in the future?
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
Very bad indeed.
- No dedicated YouTube application
Will be I believe.
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
Crazy.
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
That will be a really annoying thing. What if I DON'T have Facebook??!!
- No global email inbox
??
- No threaded email
I don't care.
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
Again a stupid, strange step BACKWARDS
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
Hmmm....
- No universal search
Awesome :-(
To sum it up, well....
I have to touch it of course.
But comparing this to WM 6.5 I see the main change will be interface itself.
Regarding functionality - so many things missing as hell.
yup, W7 is looking like a bag of sh*t
ATHiEST said:
- No Twitter integration
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's already several Twitter apps for WP7 - The notification system allows seamlessly integration.
ATHiEST said:
- No copy and paste
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the 2000 other threads on this -- c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread.
ATHiEST said:
- No third-party multitasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same as above.
ATHiEST said:
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. No HTML5 support, mainly because it's still a draft.
ATHiEST said:
- No dedicated YouTube application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Write one, or let Google do that. I don't think Google would like Microsoft to write one for sure.
ATHiEST said:
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Invalid. Better Office integration than any other phone on the market.
ATHiEST said:
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Invalid, as there's no public phones out, you can't know this, thus it's a lie.
ATHiEST said:
- No global email inbox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong
ATHiEST said:
- No threaded email
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The email application ain't done yet, where's your proof?
ATHiEST said:
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the search-button
ATHiEST said:
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither is on any other phone in the world.
ATHiEST said:
- No universal search
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uniform search-api and seach-button support for all applications. Universal makes little sense.
ATHiEST said:
Some of these aren't too big of a deal and are very specific to use case scenarios that not everyone will experience (like adding multiple email accounts to a phone, etc). But some of the big ones like the lack of multitasking and Twitter integration could provide a reason for potential buyers to go with another smartphone platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multitasking is the LEAST important problem. When do you fools start realizing this?
And again, Twitter is just yet-another-application. Android and iPhone don't have Twitter support either, there's just 20 different Twitter apps for each platform.
@Windcape
As well as you have great valid points,
I must say that this of your sentence:
"c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread."
Where did you get that?!
It's a CRUICAL feature on any device.
Maybe you're this person who don't use it, maybe you never do
any serious stuff on your device, but why do you spread here such a false and pointlesss information?! It's the same as you'd say that a phone doesn't need a speaker.
It's the basic function, present on any mobile OS since 2000,
and also supported even by those who wanted to omit it and tell people they know better.
It's a BASIC function with any txt work, whether it's office, mail.
Man, how hard is it to get it? Or what false logic brought you to this senseless conclusion?
I hope you'll never be responsible for any serious development with such false statements.
No, it's not a crucial feature. The navigation-handlers allows for much better transitions than using c&p.
A smartphone is not a PC -- People use it differently, and copy&paste doesn't make sense. A lot of you might think it's easy to implement for text, and partially is (WP7 only supports Unicode, there's your first challenge), but for random objects (images, binary, etc.) it's a completely other story.
Instead of just repeating yet another "omg no copy&paste", then perhaps read some of the lengthy discussions about the subject, instead of believing in it in blind faith.
I would ask the relevant user groups, and have their reaction. Nerds who think they need c&p, but actually never use it, are not a relevant user group. Ask people who got a iPhone or Android if they uses copy&paste often, or if they missed it on previous versions of the iPhone. They'll probably say no.
Hell, where I need it most is in my browser, and Android's default browser have such terrible support, that it doesn't work anyway. I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links.
This argument is getting tiresome. Can we move on to something else? Like complaining about lack of socket APIs and SL4 support?
Windcape - some of those are legit. There is no way to downselect your FB friends, no threaded email, and no unified/global email inbox. See the many reviews for evidence. While it's not quite done, it's pretty darn close. They have to give the OEMs lead time in order to be able to manufacture devices with the RTM code on it.
But to the OP et al, see this post on WMPowerUsers which echos my sentiments very closely. Basically, calm down... take a deep breath.
Windcape said:
No, it's not a crucial feature. The navigation-handlers allows for much better transitions than using c&p.
A smartphone is not a PC -- People use it differently, and copy&paste doesn't make sense. A lot of you might think it's easy to implement for text, and partially is (WP7 only supports Unicode, there's your first challenge), but for random objects (images, binary, etc.) it's a completely other story.
Instead of just repeating yet another "omg no copy&paste", then perhaps read some of the lengthy discussions about the subject, instead of believing in it in blind faith.
I would ask the relevant user groups, and have their reaction. Nerds who think they need c&p, but actually never use it, are not a relevant user group. Ask people who got a iPhone or Android if they uses copy&paste often, or if they missed it on previous versions of the iPhone. They'll probably say no.
Hell, where I need it most is in my browser, and Android's default browser have such terrible support, that it doesn't work anyway. I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links.
This argument is getting tiresome. Can we move on to something else? Like complaining about lack of socket APIs and SL4 support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen, are you reading with comprehension?!
Who gave you the right to call me nerd huh?
I think you're rather nerd who doesn't really speak on the topic.
Don't tell me or anybody else how we actually use our devices!
How do you know? Have we met?
You're incompetent troll, like somebody else stated in other thread.
Maybe go to other forums instead of telling complete lies here.
Also your sentence:
"I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links."
Has NOTHING to do with work on txt!
Please move away from here with your "maybe" and "probably".
If it's actually based on hands-on reviews, then I'll agree it might be considered a problem.
The thing is, half of the articles out there complaining about the phone, is basing it off data from Feburary/March, or unlocked emulators -- both I consider highly invalid.
And I'm calm, I'm just annoyed we got 50 threads with focus on multitasking and c&p, which is the most irrelevant problems there is from a developer perspective.
I find it much bigger issues that the phone only support Unicode, don't have socket APIs yet (because it runs SL2/SL3, and not SL4). And a few other things here and there which is vital to application development.
People keep nitpicking about the least important issues, which sadly removes focus from the important problems.
doministry said:
Listen, are you reading with comprehension?!
Who gave you the right to call me nerd huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're posting on a forum for mobile hackers, that means we're nerds
doministry said:
Don't tell me or anybody else how we actually use our devices! How do you know? Have we met?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's more likely that technical interested people focus on more technical features.
Most people who buy a iPhone 4 don't buy it because it can do copy&paste, but because it looks awesome, and have a fantastic screen (Retina Display).
doministry said:
"I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links."
Has NOTHING to do with work on txt!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It have everything to do with regular phone use. Copying links, email addresses and phone numbers.
The phone isn't meant to be a Blackberry replacement, or a notepad replacement for editing Excel spreadsheets on the run.
One last thing:
You can implement copy&paste internally in your application. It's just c&p data between applications that's not supported.
I guess that helps a lot for your office/spreadsheeting edition, no?
ATHiEST said:
- No Twitter integration
- No copy and paste
- No third-party multitasking
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
- No dedicated YouTube application
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
- No global email inbox
- No threaded email
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
- No universal search
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- Twitter will be back working with Windows Live soon. Twitter changed their APIs a month or two ago, and Microsoft need to update things to make it work again.
- Copy and Paste is coming in a future update
- Multitasking is also planned to be out in a future update
- Flash is coming in a few months after launch, Silverlight we don't know about
- We may see a YouTube app come from Google after launch, if not flash will work in the browser so that's all good
- As a start, the Office tools on Windows Phone 7 are good for basic editing, and collaboration. More features may come, but I do question if you need much more really, with such a small screen.
- We know when adding a Google account, you can choose to add all or only some of these options: Contacts, Calendar, Email. It is possible facebook integration can be done in the same way, but I don't use facebook, so I am not too fussed. However thanks to the Quick Jump List controls, you can click the letter in the blue box, and choose a letter to find your contact. Or even press the search button to find a contact.
- I actually prefer the idea of having a separation between my Live Mail and Outlook Email inboxes, and is a great way to maintain your work life balance if you are using the Phone for work, and personal uses. You do have a combined calendar, which does make sense, because you only have on schedule at a time
- Threaded mail, or conversation view, will be coming, you should know this as Outlook and Hotmail now support it.
- This one I agree with, I would like a button appear below the arrow on the left, to switch to flat list, category, favourites, or alphabetical sorting, using the Quick Jump Lists.
- Well, this is a trial and error thing, you don't get told when you have a right click menu available, there is no indicator, you just expect it and find it for yourself.
- If the Hub/App doesn't have internal search, the search button will pull up bing. In future dev tools, they will provide an API to override the search button as you can the back button presently. Patience, my friend, Patience!
Windcape said:
c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windcape said:
Write one, or let Google do that. I don't think Google would like Microsoft to write one for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, these two statements contradict each other somewhat. By far the two most often reasons for me to watch a video on Youtube are a) watching embedded videos on web sites and b) getting a link in an email. Now, pray tell, how am I going to watch those videos in a third party application in a sandboxed environment without a way to open a URL directly in this application or without an ability to copy and paste this URL there? Let's say on many web sites I can search for the video if it's properly named, but what about this link in an email? Am I supposed to memorize it and type into the app? Or maybe write it down on a piece of paper?
I would certainly prefer it if links to videos opened directly in this Youtube app (or better yet, a standalone flash/video/html5/whatever player), that would be a "smartlinking" scenario that I would prefer to c&p. But that's not available either. C&P may be a kludge, but in the less than perfect world we live in those are often needed.
Windcape said:
And again, Twitter is just yet-another-application. Android and iPhone don't have Twitter support either, there's just 20 different Twitter apps for each platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now let's be consistent please. If we like the way data from multiple sources is integrated in WP7, a Twitter app isn't a perfect solution.
Twitter will be there though. It will be supported in Windows Live or separately. It's missing temporarily in the current version as Twitter changed their API or something like that.
@Windcape
Are you a tard??
a) I didn't write the review so stop quoting me as if I wrote the list and the trying to contradict me.
b) Dont need copy and paste? are you on crack? You must be because I can see endless list or reasons why its a MUST!
c) The review is NOT from a emulator its a HANDS ON review of a prototype phone!
Also people remember this isnt a list of what will NOT be in WP7, its basically a round up of features currently still not in WP7, OBVIOUSLY its not finished and will have more to come.
Either way I still think the OS looks like sh*t, But the flashaholic in me will still end up flashing it to my HD2 when/if its ported.
a) It's easier to quote you to respond to the points. Why is that a problem? Wasn't the whole point with quoting the important points of the article to turn them into a discussion?
b) No, and there's little reason to be rude.
c) O'rly
vangrieg said:
Now, pray tell, how am I going to watch those videos in a third party application in a sandboxed environment without a way to open a URL directly in this application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A 3rd party application will be able to register a navigation handler so you can open youtube links in a youtube application if necessary. Just like Skype plugin for PC browsers today.
vangrieg said:
but what about this link in an email? Am I supposed to memorize it and type into the app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Navigation handlers will also apply to emails.
Basically you'll just have to click it. Much easier than copy, change application, paste, and activate it.
vangrieg said:
that would be a "smartlinking" scenario that I would prefer to c&p. But that's not available either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is? That's how it's intended to be, and why Microsoft don't consider c&p a priority atm.
vangrieg said:
Now let's be consistent please. If we like the way data from multiple sources is integrated in WP7, a Twitter app isn't a perfect solution.
Twitter will be there though. It will be supported in Windows Live or separately. It's missing temporarily in the current version as Twitter changed their API or something like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, on the "other" mobile platforms Twitter is just yet-another-application. If Microsoft integrates it in Windows Live, it's just better than the others.
It's not a loss either way.
Windcape said:
A 3rd party application will be able to register a navigation handler so you can open youtube links in a youtube application if necessary. Just like Skype plugin for PC browsers today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would solve the problem indeed, but could you provide a source for this information? This is the first time I hear about a way for a third party application to meddle with IE/mail client behavior in WP7, and when I asked Brandon Watson he said nothing like that would be possible.
Dude, there is a edit button, no need to keep double posting. Oh and YES "rly", read the topic.
btw, what about copy and pasting files?, or even blocks of txt's like in a document or web page for example or am I missing something here, that seems a pretty simple but integral part of windows to me, ffs this isnt apple its windows.
Applications have access to the internet, and files on the internet, it just cannot run in the background or access local files outside of its own local isolated storage. (unless there is a task, launcher, or chooser available to apps)
Native Twitter feeds will be coming soon, Windows Live had it until Twitter changed some APIs, and it will be brought back.
Microsoft have not said Copy & Paste is not a priority, only that in order to get the phone out in time for an Autumn/Winter release, and that it will be coming soon.
Related
Security is an important aspect of anything that gets used by anyone, at any given moment around the world. For developers of applications that get purchased through a digital storefront, like Microsoft’s Windows Phone 7 Marketplace, making sure that it’s not easy, next to impossible in fact, to steal apps and put them on a device free-of-charge is just as important. But, as WPCentral reports, it looks like the Digital Rights Management (DRM) security tools set in place by Microsoft have been cracked!
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Fortunately, though, the program that is being used to do so is not known to the general public. In point of fact, the “white hat” developer that created it is just showing it as a proof of concept. If the program were to make it out into the world, then it would be possible for some people out there to strip the DRM from applications available in the Windows Phone 7 Marketplace, and then download them for free.
As of the time of this writing, Microsoft hasn’t made an official comment regarding the security hole. WPCentral has been in contact with Brandon Watson from Microsoft, but so far they have not heard back from him. The video demonstrating the proof of concept program making short work of DRM for the Windows Phone 7 applications can be viewed below.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=flqB9WCkGiQ
The depressing thing is it's so disturbingly easy. I stumbled on it getting HTC Apps to work on my Samsung, and it's far too easy. I think it'll probably be a matter of time before piracy becomes public on WP7, so to speak.
And for any doubters as to whether it is genuine (seen a few in my travels) - It works. A paid-for, commercial application running in the Windows Phone 7 emulator, after being deployed from a cracked XAP.
Still, it's good to see that WP7 seems to attract the sort of user that isn't a rabid pirate. Despite the ground being laid for some time, and despite people having independently developed methods of piracy, No-one has yet put such information into the public domain, seeking a way of solving the problems, rather than exploiting them.
Microsoft have made an official comment, by email to every developer, on the 16th November, titled "Windows Phone 7 App Protection". It included a white paper on the topic which pretty much said it was easy to steal apps but was a limited risk because of a developer unlocked phone is needed, a limit to how many side loaded apps, basically a couple of steps which would turn off the casual pirate.
I suppose what's new here is a simple one click tool that exploits MS's oversight in this statement: "all signed applications on an unlocked phone still require a license acquired through Marketplace to run". Basically they didn't realise that if you strip the signature, no license is required.
Another thing is they shouldn't have made paid apps on unsecured URLs, they should have put more effort into a secure download system like Apple or pretty much anyone else has.
I guess the main problem, that was a fatal flaw in the design of the platform, is they don't allow native apps only .NET apps, which means almost every single app available can easily be decompiled back to source form. It's a much bigger problem if other developers can steal your code than a few users stealing your app. It's for this reason WP7 can't be taken seriously as a development platform. Oh also it means 3rd party apps launch too slow compared to the built in ones, 1 minute to launch Tetris what a joke.
If you could somehow exclude the paid apps from this "FreeMarketplace" it would be really helpful for people who live in countries where the marketplace isn't as good content wise as in the usa.
That way everyone could download those free apps without the region problems.
These are just my thoughts on this. I'm not a developer or anything so I don't really know if this is actually possible without hurting the developers in any way.
indiekiduk said:
Microsoft have made an official comment, by email to every developer, on the 16th November, titled "Windows Phone 7 App Protection". It included a white paper on the topic which pretty much said it was easy to steal apps but was a limited risk because of a developer unlocked phone is needed, a limit to how many side loaded apps, basically a couple of steps which would turn off the casual pirate.
I suppose what's new here is a simple one click tool that exploits MS's oversight in this statement: "all signed applications on an unlocked phone still require a license acquired through Marketplace to run". Basically they didn't realise that if you strip the signature, no license is required.
Another thing is they shouldn't have made paid apps on unsecured URLs, they should have put more effort into a secure download system like Apple or pretty much anyone else has.
I guess the main problem, that was a fatal flaw in the design of the platform, is they don't allow native apps only .NET apps, which means almost every single app available can easily be decompiled back to source form. It's a much bigger problem if other developers can steal your code than a few users stealing your app. It's for this reason WP7 can't be taken seriously as a development platform. Oh also it means 3rd party apps launch too slow compared to the built in ones, 1 minute to launch Tetris what a joke.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still need a dev unlocked device to sideload the cracked apps. Chevron7 doesn't really do the job as the phone relocks itself every week? which gets a bit annoying and might put people off, and also delete all the sideloaded apps with it. Imagine that, all your save games, app settings and history being reset every week.
Unless someone improves on Chevron7 I don't think piracy is much of a danger.
thats a great revolution, wp is now jailbreaked )) have funnn
digger1985 said:
You still need a dev unlocked device to sideload the cracked apps. Chevron7 doesn't really do the job as the phone relocks itself every week? which gets a bit annoying and might put people off, and also delete all the sideloaded apps with it. Imagine that, all your save games, app settings and history being reset every week.
Unless someone improves on Chevron7 I don't think piracy is much of a danger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it relocks, it doesn't delete any sideloaded apps, it just prompts you to uninstall when you attempt to run them (though you can escape from the prompt of course). Also, you can avoid it relocking by putting the phone in Flight Mode before syncing.
hounsell said:
I stumbled on it getting HTC Apps to work on my Samsung, and it's far too easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THAT is very useful. Sharing HTC, LG and Samsung oem apps across platforms should be allowed.
hounsell said:
If it relocks, it doesn't delete any sideloaded apps, it just prompts you to uninstall when you attempt to run them (though you can escape from the prompt of course). Also, you can avoid it relocking by putting the phone in Flight Mode before syncing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any chance of sharing the (Free) HTC Youtube app? That's the only I desire desperately.
This "proof of concept" shows only one thing (according to youtube video) - guys intercepted search requests from Zune, parse the responce and make a simple app to duplicate Zune's functionality. Anyone who can spend 30 minutes to WireShark and couple hours for coding can do the same app (actually, I've already posted a direct URL's to the marketplace apps on this forum).
As far as I understand, that's it, nothing more. No DRM crack, no "apps cracked", no "security hole" - just nothing!
As for .NET apps vulnerability: does anybody here have an experience to disassemble and compile back a really complicated and large application, obfuscated by the latest commercial version of Dotfuscator (actually, the wp7 devs can obtain it for free until March 2011)? I've tried once (of course I'm not a "some hat - white or black, just a pro developer)... Results are negative. In theory it's possible but... We saw a lot (no, A LOT!) of commercial native apps for win32, mac etc. successfully cracked and hacked. Just visit any pirate tracker for proof. So, it's not a "big .NET problem".
digger1985 said:
Any chance of sharing the (Free) HTC Youtube app? That's the only I desire desperately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without real hack (hacking license verification etc.) it's not possible. Simple downloader described here as "WP7 ultimate crack" can't help. If you want you may search my posts here, I've already posted direct link to HTC's youtube xap...
I think it's real.
Another guy also did the same
http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/70704.aspx
He cracked an app on request and loaded into the emulator.
sensboston said:
Without real hack (hacking license verification etc.) it's not possible. Simple downloader described here as "WP7 ultimate crack" can't help. If you want you may search my posts here, I've already posted direct link to HTC's youtube xap...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe Hounsell managed to run the HTC stocks app on a Samsung
http://www.neowin.net/news/htc-wp7-app-ported-to-other-wp7-hardware
digger1985 said:
I think it's real
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Real what? Read my post above... If someone "hacked" non-obfuscated small application by removing or blocking IsTrial() requests, it's not a real hack.
Ask this guy to "hack" NeedForSpeed Undercover ;-)
sensboston said:
As for .NET apps vulnerability: does anybody here have an experience to disassemble and compile back a really complicated and large application, obfuscated by the latest commercial version of Dotfuscator (actually, the wp7 devs can obtain it for free until March 2011)? I've tried once (of course I'm not a "some hat - white or black, just a pro developer)... Results are negative. In theory it's possible but... We saw a lot (no, A LOT!) of commercial native apps for win32, mac etc. successfully cracked and hacked. Just visit any pirate tracker for proof. So, it's not a "big .NET problem".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You didn't see any source code for commercial native apps because there are no automatic tools that do it, but you can see source code for all WP7 apps, using a free utility called Reflector. You choose the app, and it generates a visual studio project containing the code, simple as that.
In my experience developers don't readily use .NET obfuscators because they generally introduce instability which leads to increased development time.
indiekiduk said:
You didn't see any source code for commercial native apps because there are no automatic tools that do it, but you can see source code for all WP7 apps, using a free utility called Reflector.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? HexRays has an ARM decompiler which can produce readable C. It is possible to get back to similar to the source equivalent (with a lot of manual tweaking). If MS used a strong packer on the native code then it would make reversing it much harder/time consuming. At the end of the day it still needs to execute.
I've used .NET Reflector for years (and I do have another one, for Java/.NET written by my friend - sorry, can't announce it here).
My question is: have you ever tried to disassemble and re-assemble big, obfuscated application? Or you just theorizing? I did, and it's very complicated/not possible (at least by using Reflector tool only). This method is good for small non-obfuscated application only.
For the topic: here is my "proof of concept"
- use this url to browse Zune market for apps:
http://catalog.zune.net/v3.2/en-US/apps?q=Ebook Reader&clientType=WinMobile 7.0&store=zest
replace Ebook%20Reader to any your search term, don't exactly know about "store" field and en-US. You'll get an XML in response with found apps info.
To get an app full download url, I believe, you'll need some additional requests but I don't have time (and interest!) now to play with Wireshark and track Zune's and WP marketplace requests...
sensboston said:
This "proof of concept" shows only one thing (according to youtube video) - guys intercepted search requests from Zune, parse the responce and make a simple app to duplicate Zune's functionality. Anyone who can spend 30 minutes to WireShark and couple hours for coding can do the same app (actually, I've already posted a direct URL's to the marketplace apps on this forum)
As for .NET apps vulnerability: does anybody here have an experience to disassemble and compile back a really complicated and large application, obfuscated by the latest commercial version of Dotfuscator (actually, the wp7 devs can obtain it for free until March 2011)? I've tried once (of course I'm not a "some hat - white or black, just a pro developer)... Results are negative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? You should be able to decompile it and recomplie it with Reflector though, right? Even if the actual meaning of the code is hard to deduce after that point.....The CIL is stack-based, so you should be able to break it up into functions if nothing else.....
sensboston said:
This "proof of concept" shows only one thing (according to youtube video) - guys intercepted search requests from Zune, parse the responce and make a simple app to duplicate Zune's functionality. Anyone who can spend 30 minutes to WireShark and couple hours for coding can do the same app (actually, I've already posted a direct URL's to the marketplace apps on this forum)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, this guy is lame. Let's ignore him and get back to work getting real stuff done.
n0psl3d said:
It is possible to get back to similar to the source equivalent (with a lot of manual tweaking) ... At the end of the day it still needs to execute.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This ^^
Reflector is great, but it's not a one-stop-recompile-shop. It still takes a massive amount of restructuring to get even an un-obfuscated application back together.
Also, WP7 business logic is almost always in the cloud. For 90% of applications, XAPs are basically just UIs - especially with the intense restrictions imposed on development right now.
digger1985 said:
Any chance of sharing the (Free) HTC Youtube app? That's the only I desire desperately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got it running, but it doesn't function at the moment because HTC decided to use their own native functions tied to their driver, rather than the inbuilt .NET classes. All the network requests the app makes fails. Thinking of possible ways round this, but it would probably end up being so much work, it might just be quicker to create a clone.
Blade0rz said:
This ^^
Reflector is great, but it's not a one-stop-recompile-shop. It still takes a massive amount of restructuring to get even an un-obfuscated application back together.
Also, WP7 business logic is almost always in the cloud. For 90% of applications, XAPs are basically just UIs - especially with the intense restrictions imposed on development right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Reverse-engineering, and even modifying an existing app is one thing in Reflector, but copy/pasting code will never work in large quantities, it's just not that accurate in my experience. So sure, your tips and tricks might not be safe, but your app as a whole isn't going to be just duplicated and reuploaded to the marketplace.
Of course, "cracked" for piracy is a whole other matter.
http://blog.walshie.me/2011/01/25/forthcoming-windows-phone-update-the-bits-that-are-real/
This just in.
I don't see a major problem but here's the news for you!
Sad. If I'm reading that right, C&P won't function in the phone app...for...like...copying a phone number from one area (maybe from a browser) to the new contact input fields.
Thank you, MS, for such a ...erm...experience...with WP7
Well, you are reading it wrong. The stuff is about third party applications. It doesn't say anything about native apps, so we don't know how it will function and where.
As regards third party apps, there's nothing wrong with using a control designed for text, for, er, displaying text. That's the way it should be. Not everything should be selectable, and it isn't selectable in all OSes including "big" Windows.
MartyLK said:
Sad. If I'm reading that right, C&P won't function in the phone app...for...like...copying a phone number from one area (maybe from a browser) to the new contact input fields.
Thank you, MS, for such a ...erm...experience...with WP7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, depending on how the text is set up, you should be able to just tap a phone number in any built-in app and it will bring up the create contact section.
I read from the article that in 3rd party apps you'll be able to c&p only text from text boxes. So you can't copy twitter tweet right from the timeline.
So apparently you'll be able to c&p whatever you want from text boxes,
Plus probably other displayed content from native apps.
So I think not a huge problem here.
FishFaceMcGee said:
Well, depending on how the text is set up, you should be able to just tap a phone number in any built-in app and it will bring up the create contact section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just, for the sake of minimizing comment, using that as an example, not as limited to. I'm more concerned with being about take information from emails or text messages or other content in a browser and being able to put it elsewhere when I need to.
I hope nobody is going to try to tell me I never have need for it...sheesh.
MartyLK said:
Was just, for the sake of minimizing comment, using that as an example, not as limited to. I'm more concerned with being about take information from emails or text messages or other content in a browser and being able to put it elsewhere when I need to.
I hope nobody is going to try to tell me I never have need for it...sheesh.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly sure copy & paste has been shown in places like the web browser, email, and office during the demos. Don't worry so much, this article clearly states 3rd party apps.
PG2G said:
I'm fairly sure copy & paste has been shown in places like the web browser, email, and office during the demos. Don't worry so much, this article clearly states 3rd party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool. Appreciate the update.
MartyLK said:
I'm more concerned with being about take information from emails or text messages or other content in a browser and being able to put it elsewhere when I need to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anywhere you can select text, like you can in the browser, should work. Text messages (unless they change it) you would have to go through the motions of choosing Forward from the longpress menu then select the text from the text box; a bit long-winded but doable.
If Microsoft can add the function I would imagine DEVs could also make use of it in their apps. I could be wrong.
Yeah, they're talking about how devs can modify their text fields to utilize the C&P feature when they update their apps.
Hope they actually do this...
Thanks for the post. Been waiting for this.
This, while exactly what I expected after hearing what Mr. Kindel had to say, is a downer. Now, I don't use cut'n'paste that often on phones, but when I do it's almost exclusively from non-edit controls.
I would also have expected a way to copy'n'paste images considering they see Office as such a big thing, and TBH I quite often paste product images into OneNote on the computer - which syncs perfectly to the phone. Of course you're unable to edit the photo note on the phone, but just being able to cut'n'paste them would be great still.
TBQH this looks more like a half-assed implementation done quickly to get an update out the door.
If copy-n-paste is available at API level, there is nothing to stop app developers to implement whatever they like to support the feature directly.
The limitation of text box is only a limitation when the devs are too lazy to re-complile their code.
Of course, if such feature is not available at API level, that will be a true limitation. Personally, without multi-tasking support for 3rd party apps, copy-n-paste usage will still be quite limited.
Without the tradditional stylus and resistive touch screen, try to accurately select the text you want to copy on a capacitive screen using your fingers is nothing but frustration. I tried a few times on my Android phone and never worked for me. A pen and paper is much easier to do than copy-n-paste.
foxbat121 said:
...Without the tradditional stylus and resistive touch screen, try to accurately select the text you want to copy on a capacitive screen using your fingers is nothing but frustration. I tried a few times on my Android phone and never worked for me. A pen and paper is much easier to do than copy-n-paste.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried a WP7 device? I know we can't currently select, but the "cursor" that is implemented at the moment (useful for adding/deleting stuff in texts) is pretty good.
Casey_boy said:
Have you tried a WP7 device? I know we can't currently select, but the "cursor" that is implemented at the moment (useful for adding/deleting stuff in texts) is pretty good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say the virtual cursor on WP7 is pretty nicely implemented.
Android sucks compared to this and is a pain sometimes.
I guess you guys haven't tried 2.3 or any new samsung devices. Copy and paste, and the cursor is very finger friendly.
I have used cursor on Android 2.2. It is much better than 2.1 but still copy-n-paste largely dependent on app's implementation.
Capacity touch screens are inheritally inaccurate. Cursors make it less painful to use but can't eliminate that inaccuracy. You just got a tool to let you fine tune your selection. It still takes multiple tries to accomplish the job. And god forbid, if you want to select a paragrah out (multiple lines) of an email, that cursor won't be much help to you.
foxbat121 said:
If copy-n-paste is available at API level, there is nothing to stop app developers to implement whatever they like to support the feature directly.
The limitation of text box is only a limitation when the devs are too lazy to re-complile their code.
Of course, if such feature is not available at API level, that will be a true limitation. Personally, without multi-tasking support for 3rd party apps, copy-n-paste usage will still be quite limited.
Without the tradditional stylus and resistive touch screen, try to accurately select the text you want to copy on a capacitive screen using your fingers is nothing but frustration. I tried a few times on my Android phone and never worked for me. A pen and paper is much easier to do than copy-n-paste.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You already could select and hold and image to save it, then go to One Note and insert it.
I remember holding the.control button on WM devices and selecting/copying multiple items. Those were the days.
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
MS listens to their customers DDDD
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
PG2G said:
What restrictions? The only real restriction is that all of the code needs to be Silverlight/XNA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
I don't feel the need for any of those.
Internet Explorer is superb and the office applications are better than any i've used on other platforms.
doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never.
------
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
doministry said:
I start to feel the lack of alternative software on my WP7.
It's probably because the MS restrictions.
I need Opera, I need Google, I need another email client, I need alternative office.
The native ones are nice but at some point they are not so good.
WHEN???!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole point of putting out a quality product from the get-go was to eliminate the need for all of this excess garbage. I replaced that crap on Android because the default stuff was garbage. This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Also third party browsers can very well created but no one has put forth the time to build a new rendering engine solely for WP7.
ratchetjaw said:
I read that but don't get it. There are a few alternate browsers available. I have 3 on my DVP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
The OP is right.
Even if "IE9 is the best" (and there is no such thing) people love options. I am having a hard time giving up Android fully because there is no real cross platform chat option in WP7. No whatsapp. No Skype. These programs have millions of users. The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7. I used that all the time on my HTC Touch WinMo phone.
The NoDo update is so trivial in my mind. The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Then I will be happy....er.
nicksti said:
The biggest improvement WP7 can make is to open up the APIs and bring true multitasking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
more APIs... word around is MIX 2011 will introduce devs to more WP APIs (hopefully sockets is one of them)
and multi tasking is the mango update coming fall 2011 (septemberish?)
nicksti said:
The biggest joke to me is Microsoft does not have an MSN Messenger client on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
emigrating said:
Correction, you have 3 different front-ends on your DVP - they all use the same IE engine behind the scenes to render pages. I'm guessing what the OP wants is a webkit powered browser.
I don't see the problem though - IE does an okay job at rendering basic HTML and is faster than both iOS and Android when it really counts. While both iOS and Android may display the page faster, if the information you're after involves scrolling or resizing you're **** out of luck as they [iOS/Android] seem to do some kind of jit rendering, whereas IE renders the whole page at once.
Not to mention, IE9 is sick on WP7. Kills all competition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh okay my bad. I don't know all of that detailed stuff lol
Well WP7 has only one browser and few skins. Rendering is identical with all the good and bad consequences.
I am not asking you guys to need other options but it is sick that it's the only platform which still has no options. I like IE very much but I miss Opera Mini server rendering for fast browsing in worse coverage area. And I have few pages IE misses big time. No flash etc.
As for the Office, other platforms have DocsToGo which kills Office with one finger.
And now Softmaker will make Office for Android...
The Word implementation on WP7 is my huge disappointment. Almost featureless app.
It's the first time for 4 years I have to use PC to make basic editing like font style changing or inserting a tablet.
The same with email. The MS email client is so nice but at the same time is a pain. Not able to delete quoted message? Bummer. And very very often I don't see the pictures loaded or even worse, attachements don't show up so Ihave to open my email in the browser.
z33dev33l said:
This just sounds like someone who NEEDS to modify their device and prefers that over a perfectly functional experience. This may be the wrong OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It sounds like a person who likes to have a choice, especially compared to other platforms. And have had it previously.
WP7 is very far from perfectly functional device. We don't live in a camp where is only one truth for all. Accept the diversity.
emigrating said:
They do - the Messenger by Miyowa is the official app. I still prefer (and use) Li'Messenger though as that gives me Messenger and FB chat in one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Blade0rz said:
Port restrictions? With only port 80 available to developers it limits the ability for anything that isn't HTTP or uses a proxy server.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That isn't a restriction, its an API that hasn't been implemented yet. There is no policy that limits people to Http Request and there is no switch they can flick to quickly enable it, outside of giving people access to the native APIs.
doministry said:
Don't make me laugh. It's not possible to make an alternative browser right now for instance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
PG2G said:
Says who? Opera could do it, they just don't want to because they would have to rewrite their codebase from scratch because they can't use any C++.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really?
Read this:
http://wmpoweruser.com/surfy-alternate-ie-shell-for-wp7-having-a-hard-time-getting-to-market/
This was just about the new broswer UI..
nicksti said:
I never heard of Li'Messenger, but I did a search and someone said they took it off of Marketplace a month ago. True?
And isn't Messenger by Miyowa buggy? I am looking at the youtube video of it now. If this is a good client then I will get a new WP7 phone asap!
Does Messenger by Miyowa support group chat, delivered, and read notification, etc like Whatsapp?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, Li'Messenger was removed a day or two after release. No official confirmation as to why, but I'm guessing because it accessed the Live servers directly thru unsupported APIs. Rumors have it they are bringing out a new version adhering to the Live EULA though.
Messenger by Miyowa had an update just a couple days ago which made it a lot more stable. It's still a very basic app though and I definitely wouldn't suggest you run out and get a new WP7 device because of it.
TBH though, I don't think Messenger in a larger capacity will work properly on WP7 until we get a native client (apparently not going to happen) or the OS allows apps to multitask (H2 '11 - so Dec 31st ). Even with live tile or toast notifications it's too cumbersome to use for anything but quick messages due to load/login times etc.
MiX2011(12-14.04)-Will There Be Any New"additions" to wp7 ANOTHER UPDATE BEFORE MANGO
The MiX conference is just around the corner and i thought that it would be interesting to see what the users think, hope, want software vise.....
On the other hand, maybe a new handset will be revealed or the new minimum requirements...
With certainty new api's will be introduced...
My hope is for another update in june-july...
The things I would like to see in this order:
#1 Open up APIs that use address book which will open the door for whatsapp and skype.
#2 Bug fixes.
#3 An improved way of delivering updates.
#4 More new features.
I expect announcements of other upcoming features which have not yet been announced.
I fully expect some of the API's to be opened up to developers.
Maybe an announcement of a smaller update which will come out before Mango.
I don't expect any phone announcements, but maybe some Nokia teasers? That would be pretty cool.
nicksti said:
The things I would like to see in this order:
#1 Open up APIs that use address book which will open the door for whatsapp and skype.
#2 Bug fixes.
#3 An improved way of delivering updates.
#4 More new features.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I made a bit of a list myself. Well, it's kind of large: http://n8ter.wordpress.com
Skype is a bit meh for me.
There is more to gain by developing a good Windows Live Messenger integration with VoIP and Video Calling, in addition to Facebook Chat and Integrated Presence information in the People Hub. Add in Push Notifications, Group Chat, and File Transfer from the Office/Picture Hubs and it would be just perfect.
They need to add Tasks to Hotmail and add Task Synchronization to WP7's ActiveSync support.
The rest is in the link above. Don't want to bloat up the thread listing all my thoughts...
IE9 needs to be pushed out the minute it's done. Just upgrading IE would be considered a ridiculously big update to many users, and seriously... It would make tons of websites either usable, or much much easier to use.
A Basic RSS Reader integrated into the Platform (with configurable polling times and notifications on new items) would be nice. However, Windows Live allows you to subscribe to Blogs from there, so maybe that serves that purpose and you can just get this form people HUB.
They need to make Facebook Pushed, IMO. And add support for giving Push Notifications adn a counter on the People Hub tile when you get a new Direct Message/Facebook Message/Mention. Perhaps they can roll out Twitter support early.
I think it's pretty bad that they're holding back so much for one big update. I wonder how many people at Microsoft are actually closet iOS/Android users. They don't seem to be clued in much with the way they're iterating on the platform.
I expect nothing new so that I don't get disappointed again.
My wish list:
- ful Skydrive integration so all office documents can be synced
- Twitter integration in the people hub
- some way to allow zune streaming music and video not only to the XBox but to the WP7 devices as well
New apis like above said to make whatsapp available, youtube embedded vids working properly on all regions, bing maps merged with ovi so i can actually use maps, skydrive for office, taskswitcher and facebook im/private messages integerated in messaging app (a pivot next to sms would be cool) and people hub. Ill be a more than happy guy, will be all i need
Interesting if they will show anything we don't already know there.
Talks about NoDo and more Mango previews. Maybe a mention of some API, maybe, and that is all. Any bets?
N8ter said:
I made a bit of a list myself. Well, it's kind of large: http://n8ter.wordpress.com
There is more to gain by developing a good Windows Live Messenger integration with VoIP and Video Calling, in addition to Facebook Chat and Integrated Presence information in the People Hub. Add in Push Notifications, Group Chat, and File Transfer from the Office/Picture Hubs and it would be just perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One of the few times we agree 100%. MSN Messenger by Miyowa is not good enough. If MSN Messenger was as feature-rich as you described I would buy a WP7 phone tomorrow.
If there are no new APIs I will be very surprised. And if there aren't, as much as I love my Omnia7, I'm picking up an Xperia Play the very next day. I can understand not having some functionality, but not providing APIs to developers is just plain stupid.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using Board Express
blade0rz said:
if there are no new apis i will be very surprised. And if there aren't, as much as i love my omnia7, i'm picking up an xperia play the very next day. I can understand not having some functionality, but not providing apis to developers is just plain stupid.
Sent from my omnia7 using board express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+11111111111
Yep, the lack of functionality isn't what stinks. Developers can develop apps to fill those voids.
What stinks is the API blackholes in the platform. That pretty much makes this functionally is impossible to implement at the moment, and there is nothing you or any non-OEM/Microsoft developer can do about it.
You guys shouldn't really expect much in the way of new features. MIX is where the development platform was unveiled last year, I imagine any announcements will be centered around that.
I'm expecting a focus on IE9, hopefully some additional APIs like sockets (which they said has been the #1 request from developers).
vetvito said:
Talks about NoDo and more Mango previews. Maybe a mention of some API, maybe, and that is all. Any bets?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll take the bet that you're 100% right. That's what they do with the 360, it's like "you won't want to miss our announcements" then they serve you the same old sh.. you already knew about.
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
dkp1977 said:
My wish list:
- some way to allow zune streaming music and video not only to the XBox but to the WP7 devices as well
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Marketplace (or Zune > Marketplace) > Music > Find Music > Click on Album/Single > Click on Play icon next to album or single = Streaming music,
I mean streaming media that I have on my windows 7 PC.
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
doministry said:
Interesting if they will show anything we don't already know there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Joe Belifore mentioned in a Channel 9 interview last week, that they will be revealing Mango features that they have not talked about before. Expect some major announcements. It was obvious that he was holding back some good stuff.
wheelerk said:
Joe Belifore mentioned in a Channel 9 interview last week, that they will be revealing Mango features that they have not talked about before. Expect some major announcements. It was obvious that he was holding back some good stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
This year, MIX will highlight Microsoft’s commitment to web standards and HTML5, build on the excitement for IE9, and showcase the future of the Windows Phone developer ecosystem. Plus, we’ll unveil what’s new for developers in the next version of Windows Phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If they announce new features, great I've learned to keep expectations in check when it comes to WP7 though.
Edit: There are 13 sessions on the platform updates. That should mean a good number of APIs are coming our way.
foxbat121 said:
I expect nothing new so that I don't get disappointed again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same here....lol
Hi,
I am the developer behind Windows Phone 7's Mockingbird IM application. I have gotten reviews from it, however, I am not currently working on upgrading Mockingbird IM yet.
Instead, I would like to announce a new application being developed by me. As stated in the description of Mockingbird IM, SkyCat will be coming to the marketplace soon.
However, I am in a little dilemma. I really don't know what features you guys liked or disliked on Mockingbird IM, I have given a whole new interface (without themes) to SkyCat. As one of the reviewers stated that the UI was clunky.
SkyCat will be replacing Mockingbird IM as a better IM client and will support multiple IM protocols (AIM, IRC, etc...)
I would love to see some feedback on the application if anyone wants to leave me some, detailed feedback would be nice so SkyCat will be in near perfection by the time it comes out on 10/11/11.
Thank you for reading my post.
Update:
Source has been opened and is available at http://groovyim.codeplex.com
THank you.
Update 2:
The application is now available on Microsoft's App Store, and is fully supported, you can buy it now for a limited time only at $0.99, it will go back to $4.99 on January 15th.
The version available on Codeplex is no longer updated or supported by us, and we do not recommend using it. Please find the latest version on the Microsoft App Store, and if you see any problems with it, please let us know and we will work on fixing it as soon as possible.
UPDATE:
APPLICATION CURRENTLY DISCONTINUED ON WINDOWS PHONE 7; FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY USERS WHO BOUGHT THIS APPLICATION ON WINDOWS PHONE 7 ARE ABLE TO GET IT FOR FREE ON iOS AND / OR ANDROID FOR FREE. PLEASE PROVIDE US PROOF OF PURCHASE, THANKS. PROMOTION ENDS 04/06/12.
Thank you.
Hi,
i just drop in here on my way to somewhere else... not a user of ur prog but very interested in the multi-messenger thing.
on android there is Trillian, which is also available on a select few other OS. I love trillian and the whole concept of it but it doesn't look like them gonna go for WP7.
Now, is your SkyCat supposed to be something like that? Because then i would most defo be interested in using it and would also be willing to test for you (on my wifes Telephone tho hehehe).
Sneakyghost said:
Hi,
i just drop in here on my way to somewhere else... not a user of ur prog but very interested in the multi-messenger thing.
on android there is Trillian, which is also available on a select few other OS. I love trillian and the whole concept of it but it doesn't look like them gonna go for WP7.
Now, is your SkyCat supposed to be something like that? Because then i would most defo be interested in using it and would also be willing to test for you (on my wifes Telephone tho hehehe).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Thanks for your interest.
I currently only develop for Windows Phone 7, as it is a great operating system. I believe everyone should be switching to Windows Phone 7, but to get that to happen, more programs need to be made available, which is the point of "SkyCat" (Officially named Groovy IM).
I see that the only multi-messenger application currently available for Windows Phone 7 is IM+ and that lacks many features consumers are wanting which is why Groovy IM is going to bring those features into one application for Windows Phone 7 and hopefully be better than our competitors over at IM+.
As trillian's userinterface matches that of Android's, mine will be matching Windows Phone 7. I do have some screenshots to upload today. As some people may be wondering what it will look like, however, be aware, this application is far from finished and I am only taking suggestions (not beta testers) currently for the application.
You can offer suggestions for Groovy IM over this forum (XDA-Developers.com) as I currently do not have a website devoted to Groovy IM.
Please note that only certain features can be shown as of this time and it may not be the final outlook of the program as it can change through out time.
Please see attached images for current design of application...
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"Settings" About Section.
Main Page Contains: Chats, Profile, Contacts.
Thank you.
Will it be based on Libpurple or something similar, or use a web proxy to cover the different protocols?
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
at45 said:
Will it be based on Libpurple or something similar, or use a web proxy to cover the different protocols?
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Thanks for your interest in Groovy IM.
The protocols will not use Pidgin's source, however, some of the features included will come from Pidgin.
The supported protocols (as of this time) will be...
AIM / AOL / ICQ / iChat
Facebook
Google Talk
Groovy
IRC
MSN / Window Live
UnfairNET
XMPP / Jabber
Yahoo
We may add or remove some of the above protocols based on suggestions / requests received here.
You will not be forced to sign in with Groovy, however, you can chose to create an account and sign in on your own.
We expect a beta release (for anyone who is interested) to be released around 10/15/11, give or take a few days.
For those who wish to test the program, you may send us a PM and on the beta-release date we will upload our program as a private program to Microsoft's marketplace and release a link to where you can get it from the marketplace.
Thank you for your concern in helping Groovy IM become better.
Hello,
i am unsure if you got my point.
i am currently very busy getting into WP7, which i believe to be a very good OS. I am feeling a big lack of Multi-IM there tho...
Trillian is what i love(d) on pc and Android. Them just seem not to be very keen on getting onto WP7 themselves. So someone else needs do that job.
Obviously you try to.
You requested suggestions. I will try:
Keep facebook simple. Its basically already integrated into wp7, only lacking an interface that shows online buddies. so that'd be the only thing i'd wish for with facebook.
Try to have contacts all in one list no matter what service, but include means of sorting them by e.g service or state or name or both or all.
have a live tile that shows infos like join/part, online/offline msg etc.
make it run in background without dehydrating to keep it active (like whatsapp doesn't yet do - it delays msg when brought to halt).
have a very clear history regulation like have everything logged, have nothing logged, have a cloud-based log (use google cloud for example), have certain services logged, have only certain persons logged etc. Follow principle of: "User Privacy by default" - very, very important these days!
am sure there's more but cant currently think of more. I am rather simplicity- oriented. thats why i love wp7. its very minimal. keep the prog the same way. that'd be cool.
Sneakyghost said:
Hello,
i am unsure if you got my point.
i am currently very busy getting into WP7, which i believe to be a very good OS. I am feeling a big lack of Multi-IM there tho...
Trillian is what i love(d) on pc and Android. Them just seem not to be very keen on getting onto WP7 themselves. So someone else needs do that job.
Obviously you try to.
You requested suggestions. I will try:
Keep facebook simple. Its basically already integrated into wp7, only lacking an interface that shows online buddies. so that'd be the only thing i'd wish for with facebook.
Try to have contacts all in one list no matter what service, but include means of sorting them by e.g service or state or name or both or all.
have a live tile that shows infos like join/part, online/offline msg etc.
make it run in background without dehydrating to keep it active (like whatsapp doesn't yet do - it delays msg when brought to halt).
have a very clear history regulation like have everything logged, have nothing logged, have a cloud-based log (use google cloud for example), have certain services logged, have only certain persons logged etc. Follow principle of: "User Privacy by default" - very, very important these days!
am sure there's more but cant currently think of more. I am rather simplicity- oriented. thats why i love wp7. its very minimal. keep the prog the same way. that'd be cool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Thank you for your concern with Groovy IM.
I agree Windows Phone 7 is a great operating system, however, lacks many features of matured operating systems, including but not limited to Multi-IM clients, better multi-tasking support.
I also believe that applications should stay simple - easy to use, get in, out and information from at the same time.
Facebook Chat will be integrated with a great contacts list supporting it.
I believe sorting by service, name, groups, and status are also great features, and as such, they are being integrated into Groovy IM.
Due to Windows Phone 7 not having true multi-tasking support applications cannot constantly run 24/7 as they can on Android or iOS. You must keep them open to constantly run otherwise Groovy IM will exit Chat Rooms, and log in at a set timeframe checking for offline IM's.
Groovy IM already has support for logging the things you chose and it will give you options to save the logs on your phone or through a cloud service.
Thank you for your interest.
Hi !
Would it be possible to support Skype as well ?
And, it is probably impossible, but could you find a way to keep the Wifi ON, while the phone is in standby ? so the application could keep synchronising even if the phone is in standby mode ?
Thanks
FBK said:
Hi !
Would it be possible to support Skype as well ?
And, it is probably impossible, but could you find a way to keep the Wifi ON, while the phone is in standby ? so the application could keep synchronising even if the phone is in standby mode ?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Yes it would be possible to support Skype, Skype is planned to be added in a later release (Version 1.2).
The beta release (1.0) will not support Skype, and should be coming soon to those who wish to beta test.
I do not understand what you mean by "standby" mode on the phone. Do you mean when the user / application goes idle and the lock screen comes up? If so, yes, there is a way and a option you can turn on that will keep the application constantly running as long as it is opened and infront of the other apps.
Thanks.
Hi,
I am editing this post because I would like to share some pictures of Groovy IM once again with you all.
I hope these pictures don't make you too anxious for Groovy IM. Please continue suggesting ideas you would like to see in Groovy IM.
Anyway...
This picture is from the Groovy service.
The above image shows how Groovy IM's group chat looks on the Groovy service.
You will be able to change the color on your username of DarkRed to other colors such as DarkBlue, DarkGreen, etc...
Your friends color is based on the phones set theme color.
Thanks.
Kuzcoed,
sounds beautiful. What about the new Mango Multitasking? As i understand, there is a way to keep apps open and alive in the background if the dehydrate-key in the registry is modified to not dehydrate background apps. i understood, this means that the app is kept in working state and does not drain its contents from memory. am i correct?
Thank you for your work.
Yes, it is what i was meaning by "standby". Because, when the lock screen come up, the wifi is automatically switch off (at least on my phone, but i think it is because of wp7 no ?) and so i can't know if i get new messages.
And i agree with Sneakyghost, i think you should keep it simple.To me,it is important that kind of application to start quickly, as i am often switching between many applications.
Sneakyghost said:
Kuzcoed,
sounds beautiful. What about the new Mango Multitasking? As i understand, there is a way to keep apps open and alive in the background if the dehydrate-key in the registry is modified to not dehydrate background apps. i understood, this means that the app is kept in working state and does not drain its contents from memory. am i correct?
Thank you for your work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your interest in Groovy IM.
As of this time, there is no official support from Microsoft for full background multitasking, and I do not believe Microsoft will be integrating full background multitasking anytime soon.
As far as dehydration of your phone, I do not recommend it, and I do not believe Microsoft endorses the "hack" either.
I cannot comment on dehydation, as I have little to no information on it.
Thanks.
FBK said:
Yes, it is what i was meaning by "standby". Because, when the lock screen come up, the wifi is automatically switch off (at least on my phone, but i think it is because of wp7 no ?) and so i can't know if i get new messages.
And i agree with Sneakyghost, i think you should keep it simple.To me,it is important that kind of application to start quickly, as i am often switching between many applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
I have not experienced that problem on my test HTC HD7. I cannot comment on your mobile phone as it may have the settings different than mine. If you wish to know more about "standby" mode please contact Microsoft. My application has a option to keep it from going idle however. When it gets sent back to the background it will open a notification thread which checks for IMs often.
Yes, I understand your concern and will try my best to keep the application launching quickly, however, have it have the features you and others want.
Thanks.
Hi,
We are pleased to let you all know Groovy IM is still going smoothly. We are curious to what the users think about one of the ideas our developers want to integrate.
The feature will keep your accounts constantly connected by having you register an account with the Groovy "WP7" service.
The Groovy WP7 service will require you to login to the Groovy WP7 in order to add accounts, connect with your accounts, and constantly keep them logged in and receiving IMs / Chat Messages.
The Groovy WP7 service will be a secured service that will require you to enter your pin number for any modifcations on your account.
Let us know if you will feel safe using this application if we integrate the Groovy "WP7" service, which will store all your accounts, account information, account messages, and more, on our servers.
Thanks.
Well, trillian also did that with their Astra service about a year or two ago. The user concern was very large but finally overcome. Many people are using this cloud based service now to store and retrieve sensitive account data and log files. they had the advantage of a long build reputation of a trustworthy software company. You do not have that yet.you will need to earn that trust with good software. You might want to wait for a later date with this feature. I for sure will not put login-information into any server-structure if I have no proof of its security.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
Sneakyghost said:
Well, trillian also did that with their Astra service about a year or two ago. The user concern was very large but finally overcome. Many people are using this cloud based service now to store and retrieve sensitive account data and log files. they had the advantage of a long build reputation of a trustworthy software company. You do not have that yet.you will need to earn that trust with good software. You might want to wait for a later date with this feature. I for sure will not put login-information into any server-structure if I have no proof of its security.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
Thank you for your interest in Groovy IM.
Yes, I believe we will wait on this feature until more users feel safe about using Groovy IM, or Microsoft allows the application to run even in the background.
Thanks.
We have a new update for everyone here...we would like to show our Aliases now on our buddylist. Please be aware this is not the final version. We have a feature turned on to put all users online under a group named "Online Users" as you can tell.
Please let us know what you guys think.
Thanks.
Hi,
We are pleased to announce another screenshot on Groovy IM.
We are also pleased to announce that the developers behind Groovy IM are stating the application should start being messaged to PMs within the next 6 - 10 days.
Thanks.
Cool. Looking forward!
Are the app colors following the system colors or will we have to live with that red?
sent from my CoreDroid HD 2 using TapaTalk
Sneakyghost said:
Cool. Looking forward!
Are the app colors following the system colors or will we have to live with that red?
sent from my CoreDroid HD 2 using TapaTalk
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Click to collapse
Hi,
The background is based on your phone settings (e.g. Light OR Dark).
The background border colors for groups are based on your select Accent Color on your phone (e.g. Blue).
Thanks for your interest.
Hi,
We would like to update you all on the current status of Groovy IM. We have not given up on the project, we are adding more protocols than originally expected for the beta version. We hope you will not mind.
Thanks.
Hi, your idea is very interesting!
I'd like to suggest you a feature, i.e. "virtual contacts". Let's suppose I have various contacts of a friend, being of various or even the same protocol (MSN, private Skype contact, work Skype contact and so on).
It would be beautiful to me to be able to group all this contacts in a single virtual contact, built as an ordered list of each contacts. Communication will happen with the first available protocol "behind the scene".
what do you think about?