Develop Bugs

fw:A Little More Information about Copy and Paste

http://www.windowsphone7series.com/...eral-discussion_little-information-copy-paste
We started building the new Windows Phone 7 Series around two big but simple ideas: Your phone should understand what you care about most - and your phone should enable you to do the things you want in fewer steps.
That's why Windows Phone 7 Series will not initially offer copy and paste. We looked at some of the most common uses for copy and paste, and simplified them with a single-tap action.
Say you're looking at an appointment in your calendar. You need to know when the meeting starts - but you also need to know where to go. In the past you would have to copy the address, open a mapping application or site, paste from the clipboard and then click a button to get a result. With Windows Phone 7 Series, you just click on that address and jump straight to a map.
If you're surfing the Web and you come across a piece of information you'd like to know more about, you don't have to exit your browser and go into a search application. Just highlight the word and click the search key. The new search results are now available at your fingertips.
And of course, Windows Phone 7 Series also supports clickable phone numbers in emails, in browser, and in search results.
In our early testing people have been pleased with this approach - but we're always listening to feedback, and we will continue to improve our feature set over time based on what we hear.
_marshall
backstage moderator
M$ just want to do some stuff to replace copy/paste ,not cut it

But it's not an either/or type thing. MS could have done both, if they'd wanted to.
I also don't like being forced to use bing! to search for whatever I highlight in the browser(without having to type it out on whatever search engine I may wanna use instead). I seriously dislike the tight control MS apparently built into the system. And I actually loved WP7s before MIX10, now I'm having second thoughts...
Regards

So what if I receive an email containing some information I want to place into a Note?
If I can't copy the info from the email, go into the Notes app and paste it into a new or existing note, then what do I do? Write it all down on a piece of paper and then re-type it into the note?
If someone emails me their address, I won't be able to paste that into their contact details?
This just beggars belief! I use C&P all the time, and not for the limited uses Microsoft have come up with!
I do not keep old emails for the information they contain - I rip the info out of the email, put it where it SHOULD be on my phone (maybe in a contact, a new event, a note, a task, whatever) and then bin the email. Without C&P this will be IMPOSSIBLE!!!
The usage scenarios given in the OP are not replacements for Copy & Paste, they are LINKS from a piece of info to another function. Copy & Paste is all about MOVING or COPYING information from one object to another. This will ALWAYS be needed by anyone using the phone for any kind of data. Not being able to copy data around between Word and Excel is just a complete FAIL.

Jim Coleman said:
If someone emails me their address, I won't be able to paste that into their contact details?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
my understanding is that u would be able to copy a address or number into a contact and into bing (address), a bit like its a hyperlink that opens up a option menu that lets u send it to pre-defined locations.

Ganondolf said:
my understanding is that u would be able to copy a address or number into a contact and into bing (address), a bit like its a hyperlink that opens up a option menu that lets u send it to pre-defined locations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how it would recognize an address. Phone number, yes, I can see that, but an address?
For instance, if I receive the following email;
"Hi, yeah the address is The Willows, London Road, Trowbridge, Kent cheers mate - John"
How in heck will WP7S know there's an address in there?
Not only that, you just said it'll be able to "copy a address into a contact" - I've no idea where you got that from but Microsoft have clearly indicated there WILL BE NO COPY function. So even if it did recognise the address through some miracle of place recognition, the best you could hope for is that it would show you a map, so you would have to keep the email on your phone for ever more and remember that the address is in that particular message. Frankly it's completely unworkable.
As far as I can tell, the only way WP7S will be able to spot an address is if it is in AN ADDRESS FIELD in a contact or a calendar entry.

Mark my words, in less than 2 firmwareupdates the copypaste function is back. Why go to iPhone OS 1.0 and lose all advantage of not being the first one to develop such an interface?
Imho, this is just plain-stupid.

If Microsoft are so worried about all the dumb users, then ship the phone with cut & paste switched off, and add an option to turn it on in the Settings, so the smart users can use it if they choose to. It's not Rocket Science. When you're designing software and you're faced with an arbitrary decision about a feature, always just make it optional.

Silverdragondk said:
But it's not an either/or type thing. MS could have done both, if they'd wanted to.
I also don't like being forced to use bing! to search for whatever I highlight in the browser(without having to type it out on whatever search engine I may wanna use instead). I seriously dislike the tight control MS apparently built into the system. And I actually loved WP7s before MIX10, now I'm having second thoughts...
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even though in the end you may finally end up using Bing, but you need a choice...right.?

Jim Coleman said:
So what if I receive an email containing some information I want to place into a Note?
If I can't copy the info from the email, go into the Notes app and paste it into a new or existing note, then what do I do? Write it all down on a piece of paper and then re-type it into the note?
If someone emails me their address, I won't be able to paste that into their contact details?
This just beggars belief! I use C&P all the time, and not for the limited uses Microsoft have come up with!
I do not keep old emails for the information they contain - I rip the info out of the email, put it where it SHOULD be on my phone (maybe in a contact, a new event, a note, a task, whatever) and then bin the email. Without C&P this will be IMPOSSIBLE!!!
The usage scenarios given in the OP are not replacements for Copy & Paste, they are LINKS from a piece of info to another function. Copy & Paste is all about MOVING or COPYING information from one object to another. This will ALWAYS be needed by anyone using the phone for any kind of data. Not being able to copy data around between Word and Excel is just a complete FAIL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Note the underlined words....that is exactly where M$ is trying to go.
Find the most obvious use of the information that is highlighted and do it for you.

Ganondolf said:
my understanding is that u would be able to copy a address or number into a contact and into bing (address), a bit like its a hyperlink that opens up a option menu that lets u send it to pre-defined locations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you know what? HTC messaging does that even now.
When you click on a text message, it pops up a list of options that you would like to do....

Better yet, what about addresses for folks who live in other places in the world where the address might not be recognizable in english. for instance
-> 72 dr ea cooray mawatha, wellawatte. thats a legitimate address in sri lanka.

I think they will have complete text message copy and paste, and not selective copy and paste to get around apple's patent.

this is assuming people want to be robbed of their $ by paying and subscribing to a data plan. i do NOT plan to do that. i'm gonna just buy the phone and use wifi.

chiks19018 said:
even though in the end you may finally end up using Bing, but you need a choice...right.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He he, I've been writing a couple answers to this question, and I've ended up deleting them every single time, because I'm having difficulty saying what I wanna say...
Generally speaking, yes it's about choice. No one likes being forced to do things in a certain way? Especially if they feel there's a better way?
With regards to Bing! being the only way to search in a copy/paste type of way, that bugs me. I don't mind if Bing! is the only integrated search engine, or if only Bing! is allowed to use the Bing!/search button. but please allow me the freedom to choose if I wanna use Bing! or not. Without copy/paste there is effectively no choice. It smells of MS wanting to grow Bing! by forcing people to use it. I don't like that. I don't like that one teeny tiny little bit.
Regards

Silverdragondk said:
He he, I've been writing a couple answers to this question, and I've ended up deleting them every single time, because I'm having difficulty saying what I wanna say...
Generally speaking, yes it's about choice. No one likes being forced to do things in a certain way? Especially if they feel there's a better way?
With regards to Bing! being the only way to search in a copy/paste type of way, that bugs me. I don't mind if Bing! is the only integrated search engine, or if only Bing! is allowed to use the Bing!/search button. but please allow me the freedom to choose if I wanna use Bing! or not. Without copy/paste there is effectively no choice. It smells of MS wanting to grow Bing! by forcing people to use it. I don't like that. I don't like that one teeny tiny little bit.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I totally understand your position....I am like that too.
"Especially if they feel there's a better way" -> I will rephrase it this way
"Especially if they feel there might be a better way"
but the fact that bing would integrate itself, might in the end make it to the choice

What's Still Missing from Windows Phone 7

Source: pocketnow.com
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As Chuong reported earlier today, a handful of tech reviewers have gotten to spend a couple of weeks with a Windows Phone 7 prototype devices made by Samsung called the Taylor. Overall the sentiment towards Windows Phone 7 is positive: reviewers agree that the operating system is generally well thought out, that it performs very well (with nearly no lag when jumping around the operating system), and that it has the potential to be a true contender in the mobile platform space.
After digging through several of these reviews, it's clear that there are a handful of features still missing from Windows Phone 7, some of which will be addressed by the time the platform launches this fall, but many of which will not. Here's a list:
- No Twitter integration
- No copy and paste
- No third-party multitasking
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
- No dedicated YouTube application
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
- No global email inbox
- No threaded email
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
- No universal search
Some of these aren't too big of a deal and are very specific to use case scenarios that not everyone will experience (like adding multiple email accounts to a phone, etc). But some of the big ones like the lack of multitasking and Twitter integration could provide a reason for potential buyers to go with another smartphone platform.

ATHiEST said:
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do it relatively easily if you don't use Facebook directly but via Live, I think.

My 2 cents:
- No Twitter integration
Stupid when Facebook is there
- No copy and paste
Discussed so many times yet still unbelievable.
- No third-party multitasking
May be in the future?
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
Very bad indeed.
- No dedicated YouTube application
Will be I believe.
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
Crazy.
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
That will be a really annoying thing. What if I DON'T have Facebook??!!
- No global email inbox
??
- No threaded email
I don't care.
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
Again a stupid, strange step BACKWARDS
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
Hmmm....
- No universal search
Awesome :-(
To sum it up, well....
I have to touch it of course.
But comparing this to WM 6.5 I see the main change will be interface itself.
Regarding functionality - so many things missing as hell.

yup, W7 is looking like a bag of sh*t

ATHiEST said:
- No Twitter integration
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's already several Twitter apps for WP7 - The notification system allows seamlessly integration.
ATHiEST said:
- No copy and paste
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the 2000 other threads on this -- c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread.
ATHiEST said:
- No third-party multitasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same as above.
ATHiEST said:
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong. No HTML5 support, mainly because it's still a draft.
ATHiEST said:
- No dedicated YouTube application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Write one, or let Google do that. I don't think Google would like Microsoft to write one for sure.
ATHiEST said:
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Invalid. Better Office integration than any other phone on the market.
ATHiEST said:
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Invalid, as there's no public phones out, you can't know this, thus it's a lie.
ATHiEST said:
- No global email inbox
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wrong
ATHiEST said:
- No threaded email
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The email application ain't done yet, where's your proof?
ATHiEST said:
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Use the search-button
ATHiEST said:
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neither is on any other phone in the world.
ATHiEST said:
- No universal search
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uniform search-api and seach-button support for all applications. Universal makes little sense.
ATHiEST said:
Some of these aren't too big of a deal and are very specific to use case scenarios that not everyone will experience (like adding multiple email accounts to a phone, etc). But some of the big ones like the lack of multitasking and Twitter integration could provide a reason for potential buyers to go with another smartphone platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Multitasking is the LEAST important problem. When do you fools start realizing this?
And again, Twitter is just yet-another-application. Android and iPhone don't have Twitter support either, there's just 20 different Twitter apps for each platform.

@Windcape
As well as you have great valid points,
I must say that this of your sentence:
"c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread."
Where did you get that?!
It's a CRUICAL feature on any device.
Maybe you're this person who don't use it, maybe you never do
any serious stuff on your device, but why do you spread here such a false and pointlesss information?! It's the same as you'd say that a phone doesn't need a speaker.
It's the basic function, present on any mobile OS since 2000,
and also supported even by those who wanted to omit it and tell people they know better.
It's a BASIC function with any txt work, whether it's office, mail.
Man, how hard is it to get it? Or what false logic brought you to this senseless conclusion?
I hope you'll never be responsible for any serious development with such false statements.

No, it's not a crucial feature. The navigation-handlers allows for much better transitions than using c&p.
A smartphone is not a PC -- People use it differently, and copy&paste doesn't make sense. A lot of you might think it's easy to implement for text, and partially is (WP7 only supports Unicode, there's your first challenge), but for random objects (images, binary, etc.) it's a completely other story.
Instead of just repeating yet another "omg no copy&paste", then perhaps read some of the lengthy discussions about the subject, instead of believing in it in blind faith.
I would ask the relevant user groups, and have their reaction. Nerds who think they need c&p, but actually never use it, are not a relevant user group. Ask people who got a iPhone or Android if they uses copy&paste often, or if they missed it on previous versions of the iPhone. They'll probably say no.
Hell, where I need it most is in my browser, and Android's default browser have such terrible support, that it doesn't work anyway. I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links.
This argument is getting tiresome. Can we move on to something else? Like complaining about lack of socket APIs and SL4 support?

Windcape - some of those are legit. There is no way to downselect your FB friends, no threaded email, and no unified/global email inbox. See the many reviews for evidence. While it's not quite done, it's pretty darn close. They have to give the OEMs lead time in order to be able to manufacture devices with the RTM code on it.
But to the OP et al, see this post on WMPowerUsers which echos my sentiments very closely. Basically, calm down... take a deep breath.

Windcape said:
No, it's not a crucial feature. The navigation-handlers allows for much better transitions than using c&p.
A smartphone is not a PC -- People use it differently, and copy&paste doesn't make sense. A lot of you might think it's easy to implement for text, and partially is (WP7 only supports Unicode, there's your first challenge), but for random objects (images, binary, etc.) it's a completely other story.
Instead of just repeating yet another "omg no copy&paste", then perhaps read some of the lengthy discussions about the subject, instead of believing in it in blind faith.
I would ask the relevant user groups, and have their reaction. Nerds who think they need c&p, but actually never use it, are not a relevant user group. Ask people who got a iPhone or Android if they uses copy&paste often, or if they missed it on previous versions of the iPhone. They'll probably say no.
Hell, where I need it most is in my browser, and Android's default browser have such terrible support, that it doesn't work anyway. I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links.
This argument is getting tiresome. Can we move on to something else? Like complaining about lack of socket APIs and SL4 support?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Listen, are you reading with comprehension?!
Who gave you the right to call me nerd huh?
I think you're rather nerd who doesn't really speak on the topic.
Don't tell me or anybody else how we actually use our devices!
How do you know? Have we met?
You're incompetent troll, like somebody else stated in other thread.
Maybe go to other forums instead of telling complete lies here.
Also your sentence:
"I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links."
Has NOTHING to do with work on txt!
Please move away from here with your "maybe" and "probably".

If it's actually based on hands-on reviews, then I'll agree it might be considered a problem.
The thing is, half of the articles out there complaining about the phone, is basing it off data from Feburary/March, or unlocked emulators -- both I consider highly invalid.
And I'm calm, I'm just annoyed we got 50 threads with focus on multitasking and c&p, which is the most irrelevant problems there is from a developer perspective.
I find it much bigger issues that the phone only support Unicode, don't have socket APIs yet (because it runs SL2/SL3, and not SL4). And a few other things here and there which is vital to application development.
People keep nitpicking about the least important issues, which sadly removes focus from the important problems.

doministry said:
Listen, are you reading with comprehension?!
Who gave you the right to call me nerd huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We're posting on a forum for mobile hackers, that means we're nerds
doministry said:
Don't tell me or anybody else how we actually use our devices! How do you know? Have we met?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's more likely that technical interested people focus on more technical features.
Most people who buy a iPhone 4 don't buy it because it can do copy&paste, but because it looks awesome, and have a fantastic screen (Retina Display).
doministry said:
"I'd rather have a navigation-handler auto-converting emails to click-to-open-email-application links."
Has NOTHING to do with work on txt!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It have everything to do with regular phone use. Copying links, email addresses and phone numbers.
The phone isn't meant to be a Blackberry replacement, or a notepad replacement for editing Excel spreadsheets on the run.

One last thing:
You can implement copy&paste internally in your application. It's just c&p data between applications that's not supported.
I guess that helps a lot for your office/spreadsheeting edition, no?

ATHiEST said:
- No Twitter integration
- No copy and paste
- No third-party multitasking
- No Flash, Silverlight, or HTML5 support in the browser
- No dedicated YouTube application
- No robust document editing capabilities in Office
- No way to stop Facebook contacts from mixing with global contacts
- No global email inbox
- No threaded email
- No organization of the full program list (it's alphabetical)
- No way of knowing if a long press is available
- No universal search
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
- Twitter will be back working with Windows Live soon. Twitter changed their APIs a month or two ago, and Microsoft need to update things to make it work again.
- Copy and Paste is coming in a future update
- Multitasking is also planned to be out in a future update
- Flash is coming in a few months after launch, Silverlight we don't know about
- We may see a YouTube app come from Google after launch, if not flash will work in the browser so that's all good
- As a start, the Office tools on Windows Phone 7 are good for basic editing, and collaboration. More features may come, but I do question if you need much more really, with such a small screen.
- We know when adding a Google account, you can choose to add all or only some of these options: Contacts, Calendar, Email. It is possible facebook integration can be done in the same way, but I don't use facebook, so I am not too fussed. However thanks to the Quick Jump List controls, you can click the letter in the blue box, and choose a letter to find your contact. Or even press the search button to find a contact.
- I actually prefer the idea of having a separation between my Live Mail and Outlook Email inboxes, and is a great way to maintain your work life balance if you are using the Phone for work, and personal uses. You do have a combined calendar, which does make sense, because you only have on schedule at a time
- Threaded mail, or conversation view, will be coming, you should know this as Outlook and Hotmail now support it.
- This one I agree with, I would like a button appear below the arrow on the left, to switch to flat list, category, favourites, or alphabetical sorting, using the Quick Jump Lists.
- Well, this is a trial and error thing, you don't get told when you have a right click menu available, there is no indicator, you just expect it and find it for yourself.
- If the Hub/App doesn't have internal search, the search button will pull up bing. In future dev tools, they will provide an API to override the search button as you can the back button presently. Patience, my friend, Patience!

Windcape said:
c&p is pointless, and not needed. I'm tired of repeating the arguments in every bloody thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windcape said:
Write one, or let Google do that. I don't think Google would like Microsoft to write one for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, these two statements contradict each other somewhat. By far the two most often reasons for me to watch a video on Youtube are a) watching embedded videos on web sites and b) getting a link in an email. Now, pray tell, how am I going to watch those videos in a third party application in a sandboxed environment without a way to open a URL directly in this application or without an ability to copy and paste this URL there? Let's say on many web sites I can search for the video if it's properly named, but what about this link in an email? Am I supposed to memorize it and type into the app? Or maybe write it down on a piece of paper?
I would certainly prefer it if links to videos opened directly in this Youtube app (or better yet, a standalone flash/video/html5/whatever player), that would be a "smartlinking" scenario that I would prefer to c&p. But that's not available either. C&P may be a kludge, but in the less than perfect world we live in those are often needed.
Windcape said:
And again, Twitter is just yet-another-application. Android and iPhone don't have Twitter support either, there's just 20 different Twitter apps for each platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now let's be consistent please. If we like the way data from multiple sources is integrated in WP7, a Twitter app isn't a perfect solution.
Twitter will be there though. It will be supported in Windows Live or separately. It's missing temporarily in the current version as Twitter changed their API or something like that.

@Windcape
Are you a tard??
a) I didn't write the review so stop quoting me as if I wrote the list and the trying to contradict me.
b) Dont need copy and paste? are you on crack? You must be because I can see endless list or reasons why its a MUST!
c) The review is NOT from a emulator its a HANDS ON review of a prototype phone!
Also people remember this isnt a list of what will NOT be in WP7, its basically a round up of features currently still not in WP7, OBVIOUSLY its not finished and will have more to come.
Either way I still think the OS looks like sh*t, But the flashaholic in me will still end up flashing it to my HD2 when/if its ported.

a) It's easier to quote you to respond to the points. Why is that a problem? Wasn't the whole point with quoting the important points of the article to turn them into a discussion?
b) No, and there's little reason to be rude.
c) O'rly

vangrieg said:
Now, pray tell, how am I going to watch those videos in a third party application in a sandboxed environment without a way to open a URL directly in this application
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A 3rd party application will be able to register a navigation handler so you can open youtube links in a youtube application if necessary. Just like Skype plugin for PC browsers today.
vangrieg said:
but what about this link in an email? Am I supposed to memorize it and type into the app?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Navigation handlers will also apply to emails.
Basically you'll just have to click it. Much easier than copy, change application, paste, and activate it.
vangrieg said:
that would be a "smartlinking" scenario that I would prefer to c&p. But that's not available either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is? That's how it's intended to be, and why Microsoft don't consider c&p a priority atm.
vangrieg said:
Now let's be consistent please. If we like the way data from multiple sources is integrated in WP7, a Twitter app isn't a perfect solution.
Twitter will be there though. It will be supported in Windows Live or separately. It's missing temporarily in the current version as Twitter changed their API or something like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, on the "other" mobile platforms Twitter is just yet-another-application. If Microsoft integrates it in Windows Live, it's just better than the others.
It's not a loss either way.

Windcape said:
A 3rd party application will be able to register a navigation handler so you can open youtube links in a youtube application if necessary. Just like Skype plugin for PC browsers today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would solve the problem indeed, but could you provide a source for this information? This is the first time I hear about a way for a third party application to meddle with IE/mail client behavior in WP7, and when I asked Brandon Watson he said nothing like that would be possible.

Dude, there is a edit button, no need to keep double posting. Oh and YES "rly", read the topic.
btw, what about copy and pasting files?, or even blocks of txt's like in a document or web page for example or am I missing something here, that seems a pretty simple but integral part of windows to me, ffs this isnt apple its windows.

Applications have access to the internet, and files on the internet, it just cannot run in the background or access local files outside of its own local isolated storage. (unless there is a task, launcher, or chooser available to apps)
Native Twitter feeds will be coming soon, Windows Live had it until Twitter changed some APIs, and it will be brought back.
Microsoft have not said Copy & Paste is not a priority, only that in order to get the phone out in time for an Autumn/Winter release, and that it will be coming soon.

A WM/Android User's Take

1st off this is not intended to be a flaming / bashing thread. If you want to do that please go elsewhere; I'm sure the vibrant forums will welcome you. If a MOD feels this belongs somewhere else, please move it.
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Interface - Finally something completely new and wonderful. Microsoft really did hit a homerun on trying to make information at a glance approach. Mail and search apps look beautiful. I thing missing, being able to quickly jump to apps in the app menu.
Lack of Landscape Support- For as great as the UI is I am shocked at the lack of landscape support. The start menu, app menu, nor Zune have lanscape support. You can not even refresh a webpage or type in a website if you are in landscape mode. Calling this anything other than an epic "FAIL" by microsoft is sugar coating it. Especially when the HD7 and Surround beg to be in landscape mode with their kick stands.
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Zune - Wonderful if you have a Zune Pass. Honestly it was one of the main reasons why I bought this phone. I expected it to be awesome and it didn't disappoint. That being said they need to add a Play Now option to the market songs. When I'm browsing the market sometimes I want to queue songs and the Add to Playlist option makes sense but how could you leave out Play now? Seriously?
Another thing I don't like is I can not fast forward to a certain spot in a movie. Video files can be hours long, why should I have to hold the fast forward button to get to the point I'd like. Let me hit the progress bar and then use the rewind / fast forward buttons for getting to the exact point.
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone. I know I could get an audio cable and do the same, but while driving it is so much easier to use the radio head unit to control music rather than your phone. I knew this when getting in bed with WP7, but that doesnt mean I still can't miss it.
Bluetooth- for music works just like it should. however it will not play the audio from video files threw bluetooth. It keeps coming out of my phone's main speakers and there is no way to get into the bluetooth profiles to see if something is wrong. VERY ANNOYING MS. get to fixing it.
People- Wonderful. Could anyone ask anymore? I gave it my facebook and gmail accounts and I didn't have to worry about any contacts not showing up. Love the Facebook updates also.
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Announced fixes- Flash, Copy & Paste, Turn by Turn navigation can't come soon enough but I am glad microsoft acknowledged they needed them.
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Overall- I bought my HD7 without a contract and I am pretty sure i will NOT be returning it. I love my HD7 and WP7, however this OS isn't entirely complete. That being said was iOS and Android complete when they came out? To even suggest that is laughable. I can not wait for microsoft to release all the fixes for this OS because when it does it will be a powerhouse.
I will not buy that this phone is for dumbsmart phone users. I probably done more with my phones than 95% of android users who will do nothing by bash WP7 and i honestly see this for ALL users. It helps bring the powerhouse experience in an easier way without being tied down as much as iOS.

Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.

N8ter said:
Why not just post in one of the other 50 threads? Now people will be copy-pasting replies from those into this one.
I did notice the lack of landscape mode in IE. I think that was the only thing that made me go WTF when I used the HD7.
However, the keyboard is so good that I don't think it even mattered that much.
I guess with a 3.7-8" screen it can be a bit annoying, but on anything 4" or bigger it didn't strike me as a big deal beyond the initial shock of it not being there.
Also, lots of people dont' seem to know the difference between an Operating System and an Application.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those threads became nothing but flaming / bashing threads. I thought it would be a good idea to try to get away from that.
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
I thought it was annoying not being able to get to the address bar with all that screen space.

I don't know about you guys but my Surround goes into landscape mode IE just fine...
The only thing I don't like is lack of landscape in marketplace and Zune...
also if you want a nice photo editor, Thumba photo editor for $.099 is awesome!
EDIT: Oh i see. I can't believe I have to switch to portrait to type a URL!! WTF microsoft!

jz9833 said:
Browser - As expected from an IE browser it is pretty good. I already mentioned the lack of landscape support which is really frustrating but there is something else that gets under my skin more. Web pages do not resize to fit the screen when you zoom in. This was/is almost a deal breaking for me honestly. I love the organization of having all the buttons at the bottom and the interface is stunning but you lose way to many options in landscape mode. You can't even access favorites without first going back to portrait. MS, this NEEDS to be addressed soon. The browser is the main feature of smartphones now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree with just about everything you said. Regarding the browser, I've noticed that certain areas of webpages are zoomed in more than others. For instance, on xda, the text of people's posts is HUGE compared to the buttons such as User CP, etc. at the top of the page. What I've found is a double tap in my area of interest on a page will zoom the page so that ONLY my area of interest is approriately sized. Then, when I want to switch to another part of the page, I double tap there and the page will resize, and so on. The text does not dynamically reflow a la Android, but I think it's a pretty usable system.
-R

jz9833 said:
Dailer- No smart dialer? This used to even be in my old wizard by default. How it get left out is completely beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???

rruffman said:
There is voice dialing in WP7 not sure what you mean by smart dialer???
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.

jz9833 said:
Also a core application can be considered part of the OS. If you can not uninstall it, it is part of the OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.

N8ter said:
Lol, what? No, it's not. It's a stock application distributed with the OS. It is not part of the OS.
By the Logic people can say "Android is buggy because the GMail client is buggy." or "Windows Mobile is buggy because the Opera Browser HTC bundled with the HD2 is buggy." or "Linux is full of bugs because the KDE in that distro is buggy as hell."
Every OS comes with a set of stock applications, but they are just that, and are usually updatable independent of installing a new kernel or driver stack on the device.
In any case, I've already said I agree that the lack of landscape mode is an issue.
I just wanted to make that distinction, because lots of people on this forum are incapable of doing it themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree. Basically system is made of apps.
If email app built into it is buggy, we can say OS is buggy.

jz9833 said:
I still completely disagree with you. Froyo for Android made plenty of browser updates so would you say that wasn't a OS update?
I like most people consider stock apps part of the OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Doesnt meam ur right and most people are ignorant in os design and the diff between an os and an app distributed with said os.
Obviously...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then you are going to have to disagree with almost all people. This isn't a techy vs jock debate. These are apps which are built into the os and therefore part of the os.
But anyway this thread is meant for objective evaluation of WP7. If you want to continue this debate we should continue it somewhere else.

jz9833 said:
By going to the dailer and being able to spell "MOM" for example on the keys and it would automatically come up with the number for that contact.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use search in the people hub for something very similar. Admittedly not an exact substitute but it works well enough for me.

jz9833 said:
I have been a long time WM user and recently switched to android for the past year. I am offering my take on WP7 on the pros on cons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post
jz9833 said:
USB Storage Device- glaring admission, but I can kind of see why. It helps stop piracy, but I loved being able to hook my fuze / tilt 2 / nexus 1 / vibrant to my car stereo and play the music I had downloaded on my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
jz9833 said:
Local Outlook Support- I knew this before hand, but I am in the crowd that says MS needs to add this ability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you do it this way, then you are working with two sets of data (email, calendar, tasks, contacts, etc.) neither of which is guaranteed to be up to date. I don't see why people think this is preferable to a server-based system.
jz9833 said:
I will not buy that this phone is for dumb smart phone users.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully this will be true; I will keep my fingers crossed. Currently, as I see it, they are targeting people who don't understand what files are, and would be confused by files, and who believe that music consists of songs arranged by artists into albums. I.e. the dumb mass market.

CSMR said:
How does this increase piracy? If the files you buy on Zune are locked down they can still do this even if there is a common store of files accessible as usb mass storage. Either by drm or by using isolated storage for those files.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.

The Gate Keeper said:
though given you just purchased for your zune account, you can then access it on zune desktop, and burn discs from there. so no necessarily correct.
however, what i think of a common storage area is a good idea. just have it so that the pictures, videos, music, documents are in a folder view for when you plug the phone into your PC. it would really only require a bit of mapping within the OS to make it look like a storage unit. Even if it was just more restricted down to just the documents section, that's still something. better than nothing imo as i don't have access to skydrive at work. but aye, i can live with it, it's not going to make me want to return the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

N8ter said:
Its 2001, people pirate with digital media. Cd piracy may still be hip in the third world, but I haven't operated a cd player in years (or used my computer to play one), much less bought or burned one.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how about an MP3 cd? to play in your car? to lend to a friend? or your USB stick? as soon as it's available on zune desktop you have a copy of it... there is plenty ways around it. i'm not saying you should do it, i'm saying the possibilities are there.

N8ter said:
The cintent u purchase in zune have no drm..... The piracy statement is legit.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the files are not DRMed, and Microsoft wants to protect them, either it can DRM the files, or it can keep them in isolated storage. The existence of common storage doesn't exclude isolated storage.

Whats With This Multitasking Coming Soon Talk?

Where are these rumors coming from? i've yet to read or hear anything from Microsoft that they are going to open up their os to allow multitasking for all apps. where is this news coming from? has there been anything i may have missed that confirms this multitasking rumor?

None that I'm aware of, in fact its likely that it wont be out soon considering the fact that they showed the video displaying that if an app is built properly you can return to the same screen you were on by simply clicking the back button.

z33dev33l said:
None that I'm aware of, in fact its likely that it wont be out soon considering the fact that they showed the video displaying that if an app is built properly you can return to the same screen you were on by simply clicking the back button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That has nothing to do with multitasking though, that's just efficient app design. Most apps have no reason to multitask (ie. run in the background while you're using another app or talking on the phone), so tombstoning is a great idea - as long as the devs take it into consideration and save all pertinant information.
The apps that do require multitasking won't be helped by tombstoning however. Consider a GPS tracker of some kind, perhaps one for tracking your daily run. This would benefit greatly from multitasking (ie. running in the background) as an incoming call or you taking a photo wouldn't affect the GPS log in any way.
The same goes for any apps that provide extra core-OS functionality, perhaps a Profile app. Not being able to have this run in the background means you can't automatically get the phone to go silent at night, or turn to vibrate during working hours, or allow notification sounds but no ringer during lunchtime - no amount of tombstoning would help here.
But I agree, I don't think we'll see multitasking yet either. Not until a major update, perhaps the rumored Mango - more likely than not delivered with a bunch of new (and powerful) devices.

when the apps tombstone do they save their position for u to resume right back to them?

deadwrong03 said:
when the apps tombstone do they save their position for u to resume right back to them?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can, it's up to the developers to implement it. Mine all do.

yea. i think MS may go the approach apple did and have a selected criteria for your apps to be able to multitask. in the case of tombstoning though, the game hearts is a great example. i have played it for hours on end constantly being interupted, and it automatically loads back to the game when i go back to it, and i continue on where i was at. the developer for Hearts really did understand the concept of tombstoning and really did implement it correctly.
it is possible for most apps to work just as good as multi-tasked with tombstoning. as said, it's really about the developer.
perhaps MS should provide the user with the ability to say how the app should launch (not allow the developer, but the actual user). like, if you press and hold an app you can set it so that it has "run in background" capabilities. or they can suggest this at the market place with MS approval (e.g. skype or messenger), but still provide it. apps like facebook, some people like having it always running and getting feeds, others don't. with the capability to select "run in background" it would be nice.

Inconsistencies in Jelly Bean

Hey guys, came across this great article about jelly bean and I wonder what you guys think about it. I really agree with some of the points he makes.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2012/09/18/ux-things-i-hate-about-android/

Read this article as well and yes he does make some good and valid points. However, Android is still a work in progress according to Matias Duarte. As much as Jelly Bean has improved the user experience there is still a ways to go to polishing the OS.
Here is a good follow up article you might want to check out:
http://www.androidcentral.com/duarte-i-m-third-way-where-i-want-be-android

He makes some good points, but also shows that he doesn't seem to understand Android programming at all.
If you open something within an app directly from a widget (his Gmail example), then obviously the back key would go one layer higher within the app. Opening an email from a widget layers home->gmail->email, not home->email.
Also, icons opening the "wrong" app. He uses Maps and Latitude as an example. Well, considering that Latitude is built on the Maps framework (and presumably calls an instance of Maps in order to operate), it makes complete sense that opening Maps would open the active Latitude session when one exists.
Other items just seemed like whining. For example, the section regarding the Google Voice icon. He makes the base assumption that people use it primarily for texting when texting is certainly not the primary function of the app. The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling. Texting is easily a tertiary function, even if it has been embraced by the community. [Edit: As mentioned below, I was incorrect regarding VOIP, which would make texting the secondary function of the app.]
Don't get me wrong. There were some good points, but I was shaking my head through a lot of that article.

Cilraaz said:
The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there is no voip from the google voice app itself. when you make a call with it, it basically calls the GV number + the number you are actually wanting to call.

Zepius said:
there is no voip from the google voice app itself. when you make a call with it, it basically calls the GV number + the number you are actually wanting to call.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My mistake. I assumed it was VOIP rather than call-chaining, based on the app prompting if Voice should be used for international calls. So at that point, texting would become the secondary function.
Thanks for the info.

Cilraaz said:
He makes some good points, but also shows that he doesn't seem to understand Android programming at all.
If you open something within an app directly from a widget (his Gmail example), then obviously the back key would go one layer higher within the app. Opening an email from a widget layers home->gmail->email, not home->email.
Also, icons opening the "wrong" app. He uses Maps and Latitude as an example. Well, considering that Latitude is built on the Maps framework (and presumably calls an instance of Maps in order to operate), it makes complete sense that opening Maps would open the active Latitude session when one exists.
Other items just seemed like whining. For example, the section regarding the Google Voice icon. He makes the base assumption that people use it primarily for texting when texting is certainly not the primary function of the app. The app's primary function is voicemail, followed closely by VOIP calling. Texting is easily a tertiary function, even if it has been embraced by the community.
Don't get me wrong. There were some good points, but I was shaking my head through a lot of that article.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although you are totally right, you have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. And they won't think "hey, of course the back button goes to the underlying Gmail menu", they'll think "wtf.? I was on the home screen before I tapped that mail on the widget. Why did it take me into the Gmail overview now?"
The same is even more true for Latitude. It is obvious for us tech-enthusiasts that Latitude is just more or less a part of maps. But I guess most other people never even give a thought to this, so they're just confused why the Maps icon would open a (seemingly) completely different service.
Also I'm sure the author of the article knows all this as well as anybody. But he tries to look from the consumer's point of view.
To the article: I mostly agree with his points. Play store not remembering my scroll position and the different sizes of some icons (and even more the almost overlapping icon names sometimes) are things that bugged me too. But mixed UI designs and that calculator bug are just things that happen if you roll out such a major update with significant UI changes. It's nothing I get even slightly mad about.

qwer23 said:
Although you are totally right, you have to look at it from a consumer's point of view. And they won't think "hey, of course the back button goes to the underlying Gmail menu", they'll think "wtf.? I was on the home screen before I tapped that mail on the widget. Why did it take me into the Gmail overview now?"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can understand it from a consumer's point of view, but how would it be resolved programmatically? If we start requiring a pointer to where a screen was opened from, you increase the memory footprint of every app. It might also cause some problems with app deconstruction. In the Gmail example, pressing the back button deconstructs the single email instance, but if a pointer were to tell it to go back to the home screen because we got to it from a widget, do we deconstruct the base Gmail app also? What if the widget puts you 4 layers into an app? Not only would the pointers again add to the app's memory footprint, but we have the deconstruction issue on a larger level.
I'm not the greatest programmer (especially in Java), but the "inelegant" way that it works now seems to have a few positives for both devs and users.
qwer23 said:
The same is even more true for Latitude. It is obvious for us tech-enthusiasts that Latitude is just more or less a part of maps. But I guess most other people never even give a thought to this, so they're just confused why the Maps icon would open a (seemingly) completely different service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I understand the consumer side of things, but is Maps opening Latitude more confusing than having Maps kill off Latitude? The user would then just try to re-open Latitude and be confused as to why the prior instance wasn't running. If Maps wouldn't kill off Latitude, then it would have to create a second instance of itself, which again has a negative impact on the app's memory footprint.
------------
I understand a general "hey, it should work like this instead", but there are plenty of reasons why it works the way it does now. Android might be able to get "perfect" functionality, but it would likely require some dumbing down of multitasking (either more process suspension instead of true(r) multitasking or the memory manager would be more likely to kill off background processes). I don't at all doubt these are discussions going on at Google, though.

Cilraaz said:
[...]
I understand a general "hey, it should work like this instead", but there are plenty of reasons why it works the way it does now. Android might be able to get "perfect" functionality, but it would likely require some dumbing down of multitasking (either more process suspension instead of true(r) multitasking or the memory manager would be more likely to kill off background processes). I don't at all doubt these are discussions going on at Google, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Cilraaz, you really shed some light upon the deeper reasons for the sometimes odd behaviour of the back button and app layers. I'm no programmer at all, so I didn't know all this would add to the memory footprint of the apps and would affect developing in such a major way.
After reading your post I suggest we can be happy with some minor incosistencies and enjoy true multitasking instead of dumbing down our phones Again thanks for your nice clarification!

Some good stuff in this thread.

"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"

crixley said:
"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not what he complained about. He complained about the back button behaving inconsistently.

I find it actually works very logically. If i click on one email in my widget to read it and then use the back button to go back, it makes sense to be taken to my inbox so i can read more messages, instead of being taken back to home screen and selecting a new email from there. Its more practical in case you get like 10 emails at one, which won´t fit in the widget all at once anyway. If i wanted to go back to the home screen, hey there is the home button.

That sounds like one corner case where the behaviour works in your favor, that doesn't mean it's right. It used to work better. For example if you have Navigation open, and select and email from the notification then you are brought to the email. Then when you hit back it brings you to your Inbox (which you have no reason to go to) then when you hit back again it brings you to your home screen. In previous versions of Android when you hit back from the email you are reading it would take you directly back to Navigation. That is what you most likely want, and that is what the Android documentation says should happen. But all too often it does not.

Totally agree with this article. I love Jelly Bean, and Android, but ultimately, it lacks a hell of a lot of polish. This is where iOS is still leagues ahead (and for that matter, so is WP7/8), I forgive it because it is a very open and powerful platform, but it is still a platform for the techie, and has a long way to go before it is as friendly and approachable as its rivals IMO.
The same sorts of arguments have been leveled at PCs for years and are equally valid.
Like it or not, most people AREN'T techies and this is why the likes of Apple are so successful, because they understand this and bring out an OS that is generally intuitive to average joe. Ironically I find some of the ways their software works confusing in places (particularly OSX) but that is more down to my "techie" approach and being set in my ways, as most techies are.

Well, he has some valid ponts, but most of the time, he is wrong. Especially for the back button.

e34v8 said:
Well, he has some valid ponts, but most of the time, he is wrong. Especially for the back button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you please tell me how he is wrong, specially if Android documentation says that the function of back button is X, and, sometimes you get Y, sometimes you get Z, and sometimes you get X?
Either document that back button has a bunch of functions that no one knows until you use it in a given context with a given app, or, give it a consistent behavior (and I'm not discussing which one would be better).... It is understandable when 3rd party software doesn't behave 100% as documented, but, built in phone apps should be consistent and provide the same experience...

Great article. A lot of those things drive me nuts, the icon size and back button in particular.

Another annoying thing the back button does is, for example, if you have been using the Play Store before, then you open an app that links to a Play Store page. Once you have seen the page and press back, rather than it taking you back to the app, the back button will just traverse through all the pages that you have been looking at on the Play Store in your previous session.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

crixley said:
"complains about back button not taking him home, doesn't use home button"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I found that amusing as well.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

pfmiller said:
That sounds like one corner case where the behaviour works in your favor, that doesn't mean it's right. It used to work better. For example if you have Navigation open, and select and email from the notification then you are brought to the email. Then when you hit back it brings you to your Inbox (which you have no reason to go to) then when you hit back again it brings you to your home screen. In previous versions of Android when you hit back from the email you are reading it would take you directly back to Navigation. That is what you most likely want, and that is what the Android documentation says should happen. But all too often it does not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe the "back" button should be replaced by a "higher level" (hope it's the right term ) button. Maybe in this case his function would be more logical.
However I agree on almost every point in the article