Develop Bugs

[Q] Difference between SHIP S-OFF & ENG S-OFF

Hi There,
I wish to flash a radio update. Currently I have ENG S-OFF. I did run the One Click Radio S-OFF tool. It succeeded. It still says ENG S-OFF. not Radio S-OFF or something. Can I still flash a radio?
Thanks in advance.
greetz, Haru

Hi,
If you flashed ENG HBOOT then that will still remain. Check your CID, Power off, Power On + Volume Down, System Info. If CID has a load of 1's, your good to go. If it says HTC_...... then the easy radio S-OFF didn't work.

andyharney said:
Hi,
If you flashed ENG HBOOT then that will still remain. Check your CID, Power off, Power On + Volume Down, System Info. If CID has a load of 1's, your good to go. If it says HTC_...... then the easy radio S-OFF didn't work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the Info!!!!

No problem. I take it your are Radio S-OFF?

Hi,
I wasn't aware of ENG S-OFF but I already did Radio S-OFF with this (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=857537). Installed Visionary+ and gain permanent root (check in terminal with 'su'). I'm just wondering I can do ENG S-OFF. I like to flash Revolution ROM. I have the earliest Radio version and I like to update one of the two radio version as recommended by Revolution ROM. Please advise.
HTC Desire HD Stock ROM perm-rooted.

You can do ENG S-OFF using my tool, check link in my signature

ehhm... the topic says "difference between ship/eng s-off" .. so whats the difference? strange thread, topic not matching with content. plz tell me the difference!

Schneizel said:
ehhm... the topic says "difference between ship/eng s-off" .. so whats the difference? strange thread, topic not matching with content. plz tell me the difference!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read the OP you will see what they were trying to ask. Not everyone that uses these forums has English as there first language, you're question therefore could be taken offensively.
Your question is also therefore off topic but I do concede that plenty of people will find this thread looking for the same information that you ask for.
With that in mind and put simply...
Radio S-OFF is a way of switching of a security feature that allows you to flash radio's not meant for your ROM or network.
ENG S-OFF is a replacement HBOOT (ENGineering) allowing you to flash different ROM's and Kernels. And provides a means to rescue the phone from a lot of "almost bricked" states.
For more detailed answer please search as there are dozens of threads already about this.

Mr_JMM said:
If you read the OP you will see what they were trying to ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange, I would recommend to read the author to get what is it all about, not the interpretator (who got it the way he liked answering the real problem, not the topic question, but read further for explanation).
Mr_JMM said:
Not everyone that uses these forums has English as there first language, you're question therefore could be taken offensively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you see improper in his question meaning english knowing? I dont get it at all, maybe coz I'm polish. I understand either the topic and the first post.
Mr_JMM said:
Your question is also therefore off topic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I can see (and I still can see even if my eyes are so tired programming...), his question covers the topic much more than the authors question or any answer but yours.
And as I promised - back to the topic and some explanations:
Mr_JMM said:
With that in mind and put simply...
Radio S-OFF is a way of switching of a security feature that allows you to flash radio's not meant for your ROM or network.
ENG S-OFF is a replacement HBOOT (ENGineering) allowing you to flash different ROM's and Kernels. And provides a means to rescue the phone from a lot of "almost bricked" states.
For more detailed answer please search as there are dozens of threads already about this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this answer is too simple to get the difference usable in any way. As far as I wasted two weeks to get the knowledge how and with what I do want do modify my phone, I still do not get this difference enough to say that I want ENG S-OFF or not. The author of this topic would answer to himself too if this would be clear enough. And no, there is no definitive description easily found by google when you use "difference eng s-off radio s-off" terms. First match links to this thread which is a mislead, and other won;t even link to XDA but still, no definitive clear answer.
It would be nice to have this answer here considering a fact that google "thinks" it should be here.
And thats why I argued with your opinion of being off-topic (and yes, I see that the guy was lil irritated but it has nothing to do with being off topic I assume).
So now, I kindly ask that anyone could write detailed description. For example which "almost bricked states" can be repaired (what actions could be done to cause those states too), what ROMs won't flash using only Radio S-OFF (since I've read that ROM Manager _will_ work without Eng S-OFF), why kernels could not be updated if ROMs can (or why I've found misleading information that ROMs can), and so on. As far as I've read, Radio S-OFF is a flag which HBOOT reads and sees that it should allow changes, and Eng S-OFF is a patch to HBOOT not to read this flag and just assume that it should allow changes so it should be basically almost the same thing, but I can imagine that at the early stages of booting it can matter. So... it's still a quite black magic for a noob as me even if I know what is happening coz I do not know the consequences not knowing the system (even if I'm a linux programmer).
So, I would be very happy to see answer here instead of complaining . Or at least a links to posts which will cover this topic really clearly, coz I could not find one.
PS. And sorry for advising while being noob, but as it seems, noobs are the group which needs such information and help, so I've put some effort to describe why it is important to answer real topic question... I hope it won't be considered as rude

Radio s-off: a security flag that allows/rejects you to write things permanently into the NAND. Also grants you the so called super-cid.
Eng hboot (eng s-off): an engineering bootloader with more funktions than the stock one (fastboot commands in our case)
If you look at the first line at the bootloader:
ace pvt ship s-on
Ship means stock hboot. If it says eng instead, you have an engineering hboot
S-on/off is only for the radio.
If you have radio s-off but shipped hboot it will say
Ace pvt ship s-off
Sent out of my Free Candy Van.

Flussen said:
Radio s-off: a security flag that allows/rejects you to write things permanently into the NAND. Also grants you the so called super-cid.
Eng hboot (eng s-off): an engineering bootloader with more funktions than the stock one (fastboot commands in our case)
If you look at the first line at the bootloader:
ace pvt ship s-on
Ship means stock hboot. If it says eng instead, you have an engineering hboot
S-on/off is only for the radio.
If you have radio s-off but shipped hboot it will say
Ace pvt ship s-off
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i see, so the difference between ship and eng is that eng has more functions - thanks

Yep, and it allows you to do more. For example it allows you to flash images in fastboot (like a radio or splash).
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

jkoljo said:
Yep, and it allows you to do more. For example it allows you to flash images in fastboot (like a radio or splash).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, thats what I supposed talking about "bricked states", but still... What is the difference for the user which does not harm his phone? I mean for example your kernel update tool (why doesn't it work on radio s-off? only reason is that it uses fastboot or is there other problem?)
If this all is only about a fastboot then it's obvious that Eng S-OFF is completely useless for normal user. Kernel can be upgraded in many ways - it's just a more work for tool developer (like ClockworkMod flashing for example). Am I right?
By the way, why can't "we" produce RUU or OTA or any other (if exists) updates like HTC or Google just to be downloaded and flashed - in the meaning of modded androids of course? Why not just omit S-ON like google does? Is it only a problem of cracking the place which will allow to download updates from for example different IP? We have root so... in theory it's just a matter of a good cracker job... (but this one is now not quite for this topic, i just winded up myself, sorry )

good thread guys i started one of these of my own in the sensation Q&A.
Im wondering if these eng s-off links for DHD will work for my sensation. Eng s-off seems to be the hot topic lately im trying to broaden my horizon in Customizing my device. thanks again for the info on the differences.

I downloaded the new version of Android Revolution Rom for my incredible S a few hours ago. It was also recommanded to update my radio to use with this custom ROM. It was written in help file of radio:
"Your phone must be ENG S-OFF. Radio S-OFF is also highly recommended."
If ENG S-OFF provides more functionality, why radio s-off is also highly recommanded? Or maybe radio s-off does'nt have anything to do with eng s-off. In my bootloader, it is written ship s-off and I am still confused if I can flash the radio or not. and still mixed up by the differences!

ENG S-off & RADIO S-off

I'm just confused... I'm new to Android and i was just wondering if ENG S-off is the same as Radio S-off... my phone is currently Rooted and have ENG S-off do i need to the One click radio S-off? -noob- here

I am with the same condition as you and asked a similar question here and here is the answer :
jkoljo said:
Yes that is right, you need to use this tool (or script methods in forum) if you want to flash using kernel update utility.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So for Kernel flashing or similar issues, yes we need extra ENG S-Off which I would recommed you to use the tool on the link above If you are a newbie like me.

eozen81 said:
I am with the same condition as you and asked a similar question here and here is the answer :
So for Kernel flashing or similar issues, yes we need extra ENG S-Off which I would recommed you to use the tool on the link above If you are a newbie like me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you meant to say we need the extra radio s-off, not eng s-off. Just to avoid any confusion.

I´ve got the same problem. I don´t realy know the difference between ENG S-Off and SHIP S-Off.
I have have ROOT and ENG S-Off, but after I run Easy-RADIO-S-Off everythimg is the same like before.
Is there maybe another way to get Radio-S-Off?
For my ENG S-Off, I´ve made a step by step way with the terminal Emulator.
I need your Help

If you do Radio S-OFF on top of ENG S-OFF, nothing else is supposed to change but bootloader>system info CID. If you did full Radio S-OFF, which contains SuperCID and SimUnlock, the CID should be 11111111.
The differences of both S-OFFs:
- Radio S-OFF is more permanent, safer
- ENG S-OFF allows to use fastboot commands, such as fastboot flash radio
- Radio S-OFF (with SuperCID) allows downgrading from anything, it disables device version checking. If HTC has "banned" a certain downgrade from one version to the other, Radio S-OFF allows it.

@jkoljo
thx for your reply
I still have root and ENG S-Off. How can I get Radio S-Off and SuperCID too?
I´ve searched in the forum up and down. It seems that the Easy-Radio-S-Off Tool doesn´t work... ? Do you have another way for me?

Didn't the CID change (bootloader system info)? Because nothing else is supposed to change in the bootloader after you run the tool. Check Radio S-OFF tool troubleshooting. There is also a manual method posted by Apache, which uses older unlock code version than my tool.

jkoljo said:
If you do Radio S-OFF on top of ENG S-OFF, nothing else is supposed to change but bootloader>system info CID. If you did full Radio S-OFF, which contains SuperCID and SimUnlock, the CID should be 11111111.
The differences of both S-OFFs:
- Radio S-OFF is more permanent, safer
- ENG S-OFF allows to use fastboot commands, such as fastboot flash radio
- Radio S-OFF (with SuperCID) allows downgrading from anything, it disables device version checking. If HTC has "banned" a certain downgrade from one version to the other, Radio S-OFF allows it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this explains everything... thnx so much for the reply... mind my ignorance... xD

SEW580 said:
@jkoljo
thx for your reply
I still have root and ENG S-Off. How can I get Radio S-Off and SuperCID too?
I´ve searched in the forum up and down. It seems that the Easy-Radio-S-Off Tool doesn´t work... ? Do you have another way for me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi SEW580,
I had the same problem, apeared to be the wrong option/choice I made when I used te tool. you have to use the FIRST option ("Radio S-OFF, Super-CID an Sim Unlock"), this worked for me.
Let me know if it also did for you...
Jan

I would 100% get radio s-off. That way if Htc screw you over with an update which breaks root you aren't stranded.

jverven said:
Hi SEW580,
I had the same problem, apeared to be the wrong option/choice I made when I used te tool. you have to use the FIRST option ("Radio S-OFF, Super-CID an Sim Unlock"), this worked for me.
Let me know if it also did for you...
Jan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Tool is great, but it doesn´t work at mine. I tryed every option from first to last. I´ve got SU, Root and ENG S-OFF. I did everything whats needed. I run the Tool, it asked for permission, I confirm, it finished succesful, but nothing changes - no Radio S-Off or SuperCID :-(

Please try the 2.2 version, it tells you what went wrong.
By the way if you have a new radio in your phone, you have to downgrade first before running the tool.

jkoljo said:
Please try the 2.2 version, it tells you what went wrong.
By the way if you have a new radio in your phone, you have to downgrade first before running the tool.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, its done. After i´ve downgraded the RADIO, I used Version 2.2 and it works.
I´´m the proud Owner of a SuperCID

cool.....................

[Q] About ENG S-OFF

Hello everyone, I just got my DHD 2 days ago, and I already want to flash a new ROM on it (Revolution). I have rooted my phone via the wiki article, using gfree_02.
However, I am not sure about ENG S-OFF. I have rooted my phone using "./gfree -f", which means superCID, simlock off, RADIO S-OFF.
So I am guessing I only achieved RADIO S-OFF (besides permaroot, superCID and simlock). But prior to rooting the gfree way, I've noticed in the wiki that it suggested Visionary to be uninstalled. I've never installed it so it was no problem.
But now, in order to flash mike's Revolution, I need to have ENG S-OFF aswell (for flashing a better radio). I do not know if I achieved ENG S-OFF using only the gfree method (did I?). The only method I've seen is via ONE CLICK ENG S-OFF, via Visionary. I'd like to know a few things before I proceed.
Does installing Visionary on the phone, and turning ENG S-OFF via that method, cause any conflicts with gfree's permaroot? (seeing as the wiki suggest to not have Visionary installed) Does it have anything to do with the method I've used to permaroot?
And also, I would like to know what ENGINEERING HBOOT does, is it a second method to achieve ENG S-OFF? and if it's recommended over the Visionary way, considering I've achieved permaroot and RADIO S-OFF via gfree.
In case it is needed, my Build number is
Code:
1.32.405.6 CL278359
and Radio version is
Code:
12.28b.60.140eU_26.03.02.26_M
Thanks in advance!

boot into bootloader, (turn your device off, when off hold the volume down key and press power) at the top of the hboot screen it will either say "ACE PVT SHIP S-OFF" that is radio s-off. if it says "ACE PVT ENG S-OFF" thats eng s-off, if you only have radio s-off, you need to install an older 1.32 based htc rom with a stock kernel before you can use the eng s-off tool

Thanks for the reply!
Yep, it appears it is saying "ACE PVT SHIP S-OFF". But why do I need to install an older 1.32 ROM, I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere (except if the ROM is 1.7x)
Here's a quote from the One Click ENG S-OFF thread
jkoljo said:
It is best to use STOCK ROM (lower than 1.7x)!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I should qualify for using the tool, right? If not, could you tell me from where have you read that you must install an older 1.32 (I already have 1.32.405.6)

Yes, your build is compatible

Great, thanks for the replies!
I have ENG S-OFF, and will proceed to flash a new radio. Just to be on the safe side, should I do a backup via CWM? Does CWM also backup radios?

The backup does not include a radio, so it does not matter whether you do it or not. You can find all the radios here in XDA, so it is not a problem.

you can flash any radio you want.
you can find the recommended radio for Revolution Rom, in the Revolution post.
I'm using Android Revolution 2.0.11 with kkernel_v19cfs kernel (you can find it here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=836259).
radio 12.35d.60.140f_26.06.03.24_M2
benchmark 2835
have a nice DHD flight

why cant i update my radio?

hi,
i've been trying to update my radio.
a while ago i flash back to a stock orange rom so i could do s-off which seemed to go ok.
since then i have tried various ways (AMT 1.1 & 1.2 and Android control) to upgrade from radio from 12.28b.60.140eU_26.03.02.26_M to 12.35d.60.140f_26.06.03.24_M2 as recommended by mike for his Android revolution ROM.
everytime i do it, the phone boots into fastboot and appears to load the new radio, the phone re-boots and everything tells me its been done successfully, but when i check the version reported in settings hasnt changed.
i checked by going into fastboot myself and it reports "ACE PVT SHIP S-OFF " which should confirm that the s-off has worked and i can flash a new radio.
can anyone confirm that i've done it right, or am i missing something obvious?
many thanks

To flash radios via fastboot you need ENG S-OFF.
You also should have Radio S-OFF.
Check these threads ENG S-OFF & Radio S-OFF

ahh, sorted now
many thanks

You need ENG S-OFF in order to flash your radio. Just use the search form and you will find a 1-Click-Tool in the forums.
I did that yesterday and all worked fine

All right. U need Eng OFF and S OFF.
I did it with Easy S-Off software and flashed radio with QFP.

[Q] flashing radio (problem)

Hello, i have flashed new ROM on my phone (DHD) ROM - ARHD 6.3.1
then i wanted to flash radio too. I did it like is written at instructions, but i have a problem.
When i wrote to black command prompt "fastboot flash radio radio.img
It wrote: sending -> done
writing "radio" -> failed <remote: not allowed>
Can you help me what to do please? of course i had USB debuging enabled.

It sounds like you don't have ENG S-OFF on your DHD - to flash any file using the fastboot.exe method, you need ENG S-OFF.
See this thread to flash an engineering hboot to your phone and get ENG S-OFF:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=855403
Or this thread for an alternative way to flash radios without replacing the hboot on your phone:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1054304
Hope that helps.

I hadn't S-OFF thank you!
But i dont understand why, i have custom ROM so i had to do ENG S-OFF, didnt I?

You have SHIP S-OFF. Not ENG S-OFF.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

Yes, thank you
i am beginner in this, i dont know many things about it. Its too many informations for me right know, so excuse me please

Well you got as far as rooting your phone and flashing a custom ROM, so you're doing good. Mind you, a search on the error message would have turned up lots of results, so it's always a good idea to search first before asking questions.
SHIP S-OFF (also called Radio S-OFF) is a way of changing a security setting on your phone that allows you to write to parts of your phone's memory that are usually protected, such as the system partition where the ROM is. It also allows you to set the "Super CID" which allows carrier-locked phones to work on any network. However it doesn't allow you to use fastboot.exe to flash things to your phone.
ENG S-OFF is a complete replacement for the normal hboot (or bootloader) on your phone. It's an engineering version of hboot, and pretty much allows you to write to any part of your phone's memory, including using the fastboot.exe tool - which allows you to flash radios from the command line.
They're both ways of removing security on your phone, but they work in slightly different ways and complement each other.
You only need SHIP S-OFF to flash a custom ROM, but you need ENG S-OFF to flash a radio - unless you use the PD98IMG.ZIP file method from the second thread I linked. That will work with just SHIP S-OFF, since it doesn't make use of the fastboot.exe tool.
Hope that helps a bit rather than confuses things further.