Related
When Windows Phone 7 was announced, every WinMo fan could not wait to see what Microsoft was going to come up with. We were all hoping that Microsoft could give us a modern mobile OS that was feature-rich and stable. Something at best better than Android and at worst comparable.
The first set of news that started to raise eyebrows was the complete design control Microsoft imposed on the phones. From the cpu speed to the number of physical buttons, we jokingly said Microsoft was beginning to sound like Apple. But we brushed it off saying that the high minimum requirements meant all the phones were going to be fabulously powerful and there is nothing wrong with that.
Then more disturbing things started to come out. No bluetooth transfer or mass storage mode. Conflicting reports were coming out about the memory card or lack thereof. There would be no Flash support and Zune software will be needed to manage files on the phone. Suddenly the mobile OS Microsoft was creating started to sound less and less like Android and more like iOS.
But I believe that Microsoft does not see Windows Phone 7 as a competitor to the Android and iPhone phones of this world. I think they are actually after the Blackberry market instead. Then all these limitations make sense. Windows Phone 7 has too many mass consumer limitations to compete with a well established Android OS. But the Blackberry market, as insane as it sounds with how rooted BBs are in government and corporations, is actually attainable.
Microsoft put effort into creating a phone that is a hub of information. Email capabilities when using an Exchange server look amazing. MSN messenger already has a large user base.
+ WP7 handsets are more technologically advanced than BB handsets
+ MSN Messenger is better than BB Messenger
+ Browser experience is without question better than what BB is offering now
- BB is the king of email and WP7 will have to work to trump BB.
But it makes for more sense for this phone to be a BlackBerry beater than an Android one. I would pick any of the 9 debut handsets over a Blackberry. I would have a harder time choosing them over a Desire.
The only hopes of trumping BB phones is rooted in security. For any company to allow the use of wp7 phones, there will needed to be extensive security testing to ensure that the intellectual property is safeguarded. This is especially applicable to governments.
And I believe that is exactly what they did. Here is an interview taken from everythingwm.com:
Two conspicuous absences in the abilities of Windows Phone 7 are Flash and Silverlight — the latter especially, as it is developed by Microsoft themselves. TechRadar talked to Microsoft’s Andy Lees, president of the mobile communications division, on the issue, and this is what he had to say:
“It’s not a religious thing; we support standard H.264 video in the browser. We’re not allergic to Flash, we’re not allergic to Silverlight, we’re not allergic to HTML5 – but this [Windows Phone 7 browser] doesn’t support it. We don’t have the extensibility model inside the browser for those pieces and when you see the future I think you’ll understand why.
[...]
“There is no ActiveX plug-in extensibility because of the security model; we’re not going to do that. And with no ActiveX plug-in model, how would we do Flash?”
It’s about stability, security, and battery life, it seems. Pretty much exactly what Apple said about why they don’t support Flash on the iPhone.
WP7 is not even close to being targeted at the corporate world right now. It's targeted at regular consumers.
No side loading or private publishing
barely any support for policies
no device encryption
BlackBerry will continue to dominate the corporate sector until someone else (and I think it will be Microsoft) decides to compete in those aspects.
RustyGrom said:
WP7 is not even close to being targeted at the corporate world right now. It's targeted at regular consumers.
No side loading or private publishing
barely any support for policies
no device encryption
BlackBerry will continue to dominate the corporate sector until someone else (and I think it will be Microsoft) decides to compete in those aspects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's almost like he's reading this forum.
http://www.winsupersite.com/mobile/wp7_business.asp explains all this at length in case you're interested.
going to agree with rusty here. Bb market is losing more share than windows to iPhone mostly. Wp7 is a consumer device with some nuances of work related material
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
RustyGrom said:
It's almost like he's reading this forum.
http://www.winsupersite.com/mobile/wp7_business.asp explains all this at length in case you're interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually started to do some searching after and made a post that did not go thru.
I have read posts that claims Windows will support side-loading apps.
Policy support can be fixed.
No device level encryption, but there is data level encryption so data can be protected and provide developers with flexible options.
My whole thing is this: If Windows is indeed looking to be in the same market space as iOS and Android they will get crushed initially. There are on average comparable phones in the Android market to these 9 WP7 devices.
HTC HD7 vs Desire HD - The Desire HD is better in battery life, camera MP and because it is an Android phone it does not have the quirky limitations that WP7. Why would the average consumer pick the HD7 over the Desire HD? The same goes for the HTC 7 Pro vs Desire Z. The most unique phones out of the bunch are the HTC 7 Surround and the Mozart.
I guess I am looking at it from my point of view. WP7 looks to be more business inspired than Android and iOS and I do not like/want a Blackberry Storm (or Torch).
nicksti said:
I actually started to do some searching after and made a post that did not go thru.
I have read posts that claims Windows will support side-loading apps.
Policy support can be fixed.
No device level encryption, but there is data level encryption so data can be protected and provide developers with flexible options.
My whole thing is this: If Windows is indeed looking to be in the same market space as iOS and Android they will get crushed initially. There are on average comparable phones in the Android market to these 9 WP7 devices.
HTC HD7 vs Desire HD - The Desire HD is better in battery life, camera MP and because it is an Android phone it does not have the quirky limitations that WP7. Why would the average consumer pick the HD7 over the Desire HD? The same goes for the HTC 7 Pro vs Desire Z. The most unique phones out of the bunch are the HTC 7 Surround and the Mozart.
I guess I am looking at it from my point of view. WP7 looks to be more business inspired than Android and iOS and I do not like/want a Blackberry Storm (or Torch).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, at first WP7 will probably get crushed but it will gain momentum.
There's plenty of reasons why consumers will pick up WP7 devices. Better media, better UI, easier to use, a guaranteed experience, higher quality apps, etc. There's been many, many threads and posts on this forum debating this topic so I'd suggest you start reading if you want to know the pros/cons.
Yes, there is side loading but it's only for registered developers. Read the article I posted, it does a good job of explaining it. WP7 is in no way targeted at corporations right now. That will come in time but right now it is squarely pointed at media and social networking hungry consumers.
So yes, because it does include exchange policy support as well as office integration, you could make the argument that it's already more corporate friendly than iPhone and Android. But that's not saying much at all. It is still not even on the same playing field as BlackBerry in that space.
I am not sure if the xda review shares my opinion, but look at the last paragraphof this article:
http://www.xda-developers.com/windows-mobile/xda-exclusive-windows-phone-7-review/
WP7 is targeted at dumbphone users who want to switch to a smartphone.
Many of them already have iPhones, but there are still lots of potential customers who haven't switched to a smartphone yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdpQir1sqiQ
Windows Phone 7 taking a funny shot at Crackberry users.
I think microsoft kept it to a minimum. They released what was ready. It is not like android got flash right away or it had all the features that it has now from the get go. I think for once microsoft did the right thing. They released a good OS and didn't put in stuff that was not ready to be release. Are they probably testing a faster browser? Flash support? may be turn by turn navigation app of their own? Mass storage support? I do hope so for their sake, and I am pretty sure they do have plans for those features. Lately microsoft has been on the right track not releasing software that is broken and works hals assed and needs to be held back. They went with what was ready and held back what is not ready.
crow26 said:
WP7 is targeted at dumbphone users who want to switch to a smartphone.
Many of them already have iPhones, but there are still lots of potential customers who haven't switched to a smartphone yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great post You just insulted most of the phone users in the world.
agp64 said:
Great post You just insulted most of the phone users in the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's like a broken record with that crap in many WP7 threads.
nkd said:
I think microsoft kept it to a minimum. They released what was ready. It is not like android got flash right away or it had all the features that it has now from the get go. I think for once microsoft did the right thing. They released a good OS and didn't put in stuff that was not ready to be release. Are they probably testing a faster browser? Flash support? may be turn by turn navigation app of their own? Mass storage support? I do hope so for their sake, and I am pretty sure they do have plans for those features. Lately microsoft has been on the right track not releasing software that is broken and works hals assed and needs to be held back. They went with what was ready and held back what is not ready.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Free turn by turn nav is nothing new to MS. They were first to have free TbT on the WinMo 6.5 in Bing search. TbT nav is now a common thing in today's smartphones. For MS to not plan it in from the get go for WP7 is, in my view of it, short sighted.
The TbT incorporated in Bing on my HD2 worked flawlessly. I see nothing broken about software MS already has perfected. My view is MS is just being hard-nosed and far too conservative about features in WP7. It's as if they are daring the market not to support WP7. They are doing the exact opposite of what they need to do to have a mobile OS that will survive in this market. Instead of piling in the features and making a top-notch OS that makes a person say, "WOW! I have to have that!", they are making a first-rate, top-notch OS but skimping on features. This makes a person think, when considering the nature of technology getting better and more feature laden as time passes, that they have to have a WP7 device and then, when they see it doesn't do what they expected because it doesn't have all those features, they become disillusioned and are left with a bummed out feeling toward MS and their shiny, fancy new OS.
Since this is how MS does business....newer tech being LESS feature laden...the next time I buy a car, I will buy a Lexus and expect a model-T
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
Croak said:
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is what happens when opt to be a guinea pig. But you can place a reasonable bet that these initial offering issues will be fixed by Q1 2011. The question is are you willing to wait?
And no, I do not believe your Bold 9000 has better audio than the Surround. But I have not heard the Surround yet.
Croak said:
I'm sitting here with the worst case of buyers remorse I've had since I bought a Palm VII. I bought my Surround off-contract, and the store has a no-returns policy for non-contract sales, so this thing is going on Craigslist for a loss tomorrow.
That said, in a lot of ways, my old Bold 9000, BBOS 4.x, circa 2008 had more functionality than this late 2010 WP7 device. I could use it as a storage device, for one thing, and "side load" applications, and more importantly, data (ebooks, music, movies, etc) without needing any sort of sync program. It also had better audio than this Surround, believe it or not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you actually deaf or using broken headphones/speakers? The zune player has the best audio playback off any phone period.
I have posted about other complains on the phone in other threads so i will keep this to a basic summary.
Zune file management is easily the best if you pref active sync then there is something wrong with you plus its media management makes even apple look pafetic.
If you want a mass storage device buy a memory stick there like £20 and work better than any phone mp3 player or book reader.
copy and paste and flash are on the way though tbf c/p is overrated and flash is a battery drain.
multitasking is just for show and in the real world only acts to drain battery and slow down performance (everything it would be useful for already do ie you can read texts whilst in other apps)
turn by turn is just a gimic don't know about anyone else but when i get in my car I have my tomtom and don't kill my phone just getting somewhere.
All in all MS has got the point of a phone and have what is needed working let us not forget the bonuses,
Zune rules everything, hubs and tiles are the future, Xbox live is the greatest thing to happen to phones ever and it all works smoth and looks like something from minority report whils tnot sacrifysing anything thats actually useful, just a bunch of crap people like to say they have.
Zune is an awesome player and I can second that.
But Android is much more hackable and versatile. It's like Windows Mobile 6.5 with better interface and looks!
I like how lumpa's argument on essential features is,"Well, you only THINK you need that."
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
I agree.
But it won't change anything.
Comparing RTM Releases is more than valid, becaue in every case the OS was so far behind what was already on the market (Android/iOS vs. WinMo/Symbian) that it wasn't even funny.
WP7 isn't anything near as far behind Android/iOS as those platforms were compared to the aformentioned upon release. It has nothing to do with hardware, either.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
N8ter said:
I agree.
Don't want someone to make another post with big pictures in it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes i think you have seen the post that pushed me to start this thread lol.
lumpaywk said:
I have seen a lot of people on here comparing wp7 to ios and android launches only to be followed by a stew of haters saying you cant compare with software hardware from years ago. If that was all it was i would be inclined to agree. But when we compare the launches in comparison to what was around at the time it is very justified.
When Apple launches the iphone it was 2g no mms unable to do custom ring-tones could not be tethered etc yet we had phones like the N95.
I don't know much about the original Android so i wont comment specifically but only to say it was a similar situation from what i do remember.
The thing to also remember with these is how long it took them to put it right and bring them up to speed MS has a massive update in 3 months to bring it up to speed yet it took apple 3 generations (3gs) before it actually had anything worth talking about.
My point if i have one is that when we compare to launches its in relevance to the time much in the same way you would look back at an old movie. Anyway i think I got what i wanted to say across, I'm not to great at making points.
Discus .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. When both iOs and Android were introduced, they were immediately compared to everything else.
Whatever IS released on market, out of Beta and RTM - should be compared.
Whatever is sold to customer.
And trust me, that is what MS wants too. Compare and eventually win.
And very valid point - as well as Apple and Google were having DEBUTS on the market,
MS was on the market for 10 fuc....ng years.
I wait to judge finally for the first upgrade.
You know what is the thing with WP7?
It gives such a big promise it creates huge frustration for some.
I want it but only if I will not loose any of the things I need in my live.
Id be inclined to say Android left its beta stage with the release of 2.1. Before that, it didnt even support multitouch. The interface is still nowhere near that of wp7 or iphone in terms of smoothness. WP7 is way too polished to be a beta, but there are just a few things I wish it had to make it perfect. Android was launched over 2 years ago and it was a dud until verizon picked it up.. an unpolished one at that. I still dont understand why people want to use it other than verizon didnt have the iphone at the time.
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
palm's current OS is not their first attempt at a phone os either.
but whats the point in comparing the different OS .. if it meets your needs then its good ... if it doesn't then it needs work ...
The Gate Keeper said:
being in the industry and starting over are two separate points... yes it should be compared to today's standards, but people shouldn't look at it as an iteration of windows mobile, but as a new line. so yes, whilst they have been in the smart phone industry, they did hit the restart button to build from the ground up again. it should still be compared to what's out in today's market, but it should also be considered as a brand new product. get this through your heads...
and this is how MS sees it as well, and they'll spend the next few years updating it frequently to get it up to and beyond what is out now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point about it being a new brand, I think one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes is branding of Windows Phones. In my opinion they really should have tried to distance themselves from Windows Mobile as WM has a stigma associated with it seems.
But I still think there's plenty of room in the market for Windows Phone to do well. Even if sales aren't great now, I think Microsoft has a great product and if they continue to build on it I don't see why it wouldn't do well. Remember; 70% of people in the US don't own smartphones yet.
Either way, why do we need to compare this launch feature-to-feature with previous launches? Does that matter when considering a new phone? If you like the phone, buy one. If not, don't.
yeah I agree, comparing an RTM now to over 3 years ago is just inane.
They've had that time to see how to build a successful OS and they opted to use an iOS model that's closed off and tailored for people who don't want too many choices, just easy access to facebook and texting and such.
no copy/paste is pretty stupid I don't care what year it is...
but yeah, comparing an RTM now to then is a world of difference. iOS now does a lot more than WP7, and we all knew the limitations of WP7 months ago, plenty of time for MS to fix this stuff, they have no excuse.
vetvito said:
OK OK OK I see we are in denial.
Apple launched its very first platform in 2007. Google launched its very first mobile in 2008. Palm launched in 1998.
You're telling me that its fine to compare WP7 today with Palm of 1998?
I can guarantee you no one is doing these types of comparisons but you guys.
Fact:
This is NOT Microsofts first attempt at a mobile OS.
No big pictures this time.
Not a hater, i just wont accept mediocrity.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long have you used WinMo???
Really, when has that experience been anything but frustrating out of the box???
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
N8ter said:
I think vetvito just has terrible reading comprehension.
When Android was launched, it was missing enough features compared to WinMo/Palm/Symbian to make another successful mobile platform. There's nothing wrong with comparing RTM WP7 with RTM iOS/Android so that we can see how those platforms stacked up against the competition when they were introduced.
We all know the success or WP7 is dependent on competition these days. But we want like to look back at those platforms and see how they were scrutinized based on the competition that existed back then, as well as what the feature disparity was.
WinMo and Symbian still exist, with largely the same features sets - still unmatched by any other mobile OSes. We don't see anyone in the Android forums *****ing and moaning about it being mediocre because it doesn't have WinMo/Symbian-level features, and trust me, it's missing more than a few compared to those OSes.
By all accounts, Android is still mediocre in more than enough ways (Exchange Support, User Interface, Performance, Battery Longevity is below mediocre compared to other mobile OSes, etc.). Look at the Android forums. People are still asking about basic stuff that is either missing of mediocre in the OS (SD Card Encryption, Exchange Support, Battery Life, etc.). We aren't here to go over Android's many issues. Android is still tryin to get out of Beta status, AFAIC, but that's not surprising. Google is well known for their endless Betas.
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
SMH at N8ter, yet again with the personal attacks. How about staying on topic.
N8ter said:
There's a ridiculous amount of double standard going on in this forum, and a much higher level of trolling than in the other forums.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You spoiled most of threads with hate to the people who have different views than yours, and with your forceful promotion of WP7.
Just let other's speak. Why do you flame here all the time?
We can discuss here what we don't like, can't you just accept it?
If it's too hard, just start yor won thread.
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
fb401 said:
When the iphone os debuted, we ALL (including me) in the XDA community laughed at it and proceeded to compared it to the current iteration of WM6: We have c/p, they don't. We have MMS, they don't. We have 3G, they don't. We have a filesystem & expandable memory, they don't. ETC.
So why, when people want to compare RTM WP7 to the current iteration of ios or android, do you some of you say, "no, you must compare to the android rtm and ios rtm"? If we were to be fair, we would have been comparing iphone os 1.0 to WM2003.
I'm a WP7 user who hasn't even glanced once at 6.5 since I've moved over but I definitely think it's MORE than fair to compare RTM WP7 to current ios and android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a good point.
orangekid said:
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have owned a Captivate and a Focus, one is Hummingbird the other is Snapdragon. I get atleast 20% more battery life with the Focus than I did on the Captivate. I don't remember if the Captivate had a smaller battery though, the Focus is 1500mah
orangekid said:
Also, how is the UI in Android below any other OS? You can make the UI do anything and look like anything. Even now there are themes that make it look just like WP7 but with better tiles!
exchange support in Android is just fine and enhanced with 3rd party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The UI on Android seems like Windows XP in a Windows 7/OSX world to me. It's not bad, but it is definitely not as "slick" or "fluid" as WP7 or iOS.
Exchange support on Android is getting better, but it is still pretty basic. Even with 3rd party apps, it is less than perfect. The 3rd party apps do not integrate contacts with the phone address book very well.
orangekid said:
"Performance" not sure what you mean by that. Sure a WP7 device will smoke a myTouch 3G, but take any MSM android device and it will outperform any of the QSD WP7 phones out there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then the X10a (with generic ROM and all bloat removed) vs the WP7 devices is the best comparison to make. I have an X10a (a=North America version) and the Focus. The Focus is definitely snappier. This is on essentially equal hardware, so it appears the WP7 is more optimized than Android 2.1. I have not used 2.2 on the X10a (mostly because there is no NAND loadable version yet) so it may be more on par with 2.2.
orangekid said:
Any time you give options in an O.S. it will introduce some complications. Android gives you choice. With WP7, you get no choice on anything, but you do get that fluid streamlined experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To say there is no choice on anything is not 100% true. You do get to choose which live tiles to use (essentially like widgets) but you are stuck with the as-designed home screen. This is in my opinion a good decision by Microsoft. As much fun as it is to tinker with different home replacements on Android, it is not something that is good for most users. The UI should be consistent across devices so that the overall experience is consistent.
orangekid said:
Honestly, WP7 looks pretty interesting to me, it's a Microsoft iPhone basically, and I think if MS just adds some more features and advertises better the poor sales will pick up in 2011.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed!
orangekid said:
But comparing an RTM from right now to one that is years old isn't really practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
"Android" battery life is not an issue. Certain devices have issues, and especially because we can actually modify the kernel but take any Hummingbird device out the box and I think it will outlast a WP7 snapdragon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe in some fantasy world where the only people who use smartphones are XDA forum posters.
HD2s get better battery life than Vibrants out of the box (I had both and used both for months before I sold the HD2 - actually used the HD2 more since all my media and documents were stored on it) and it has a smaller battery. There are Efficient ROMs for WinMo devices, IIRC, which give better battery life (I use only stock ROMs).
An Android handset cannot even compete with a Nokia for battery life. WP7 gives better battery life than Android.
I think the comparison is more about how those releases compared to their time vs how WP7 release compares to it's time. In that case, the comparison is valuable. It shows that even with some missing features, the potential and market share can be obtained.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already said this more than twice in two different threads. I've tried saying it in different ways. I can say it in French if they want, my French is respectable...
I still don't think they'll get it, though...
These types of comparisons are made all the time.
Exchange support on Android is not *fine*. If you think it is, then you have not used an WinMo, iPhone, or Symbian phone against an Exchange server, especially on a device used for business. Exchange ActiveSync has existed for almost a decade... To have such poor support (compared to competing products) after being on the market 2 years... Well, it's terrible. TouchDown and other clients are buggy or have unacceptable workarounds for some of the shortcomings in the Android OS. They are not usable in all use cases - not to mention they're expensive as hell.
Better off just getting an N8 and buying SPB Mobile Shell. You'll get more bang for your buck, that way, IMO (due to better Business features, battery life, and support for more DRM and Media Types + offline navigation capabilities on top of a pentaband radio).
Captivate has a 1500mAh battery. Battery life on Android is worse than on other platforms. That is why Google is still trying to make improvements IRT battery life.
The user interface on Android is terrible compared to WP7 and iOS, especially when it comes to applications. Go to http://www.TweetDeck.com and compare the Android and iOS user interfaces. As far as the OS user interface... It's worse than 3rd party replacements like SPB Mobile Shell, and the reason why there's a market for this is because the Android UI is terrible. If it was "fine," then Manufacturers wouldn't spend the kind of cash and resourecs they do defacing it as if it was another version of Symbian OS or Windows Mobile.
The Sony Ericson devices probably the the most attractive Android skins on them. I was in Best Buy on Black Friday playing around with one. I didn't even know what the hell it was until I dug around in the menus, either. It was very attractive, performant, and intuitive. Unfortunately, only a minority of Android devices have this sort of user experience.
N8ter, I hope none of that was directed at me. I am in almost complete agreement with your statements.
The promises are good but like that first update I feel like we're going to wait until the last quarter of the year to get anything.
Thoughts?
If all these features here today WP7 would be in a much better place. Ideally the update should come before the iPhone 5 but I don't see that happening.
nor do I nothing has been specc'd regarding the new hw either...but the nokai thing is a good thing for microsoft
Oh My God! No new devices?!
All this for (almost) nothing!
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
For those who missed it, the entire keynote video will be up on the MWC site, but you can see the demo of 3rd party multitasking and Kinect integration below. It was interesting to hear that, both, Steve Ballmer and Joe Belfiore mentioned that these are not all the new features to come and that we'll be hearing more later this year (it hinted at the next generation of hardware devices).
Multitasking:
Kinect:
You can also see the press release here.
cant wait for those update, it is just awesome.
FiyaFleye said:
Why do you need new devices? Do you really think a front facing camera will be implemented this year? Do you feel the need for more power? Is the phone not fluid enough for you? This is what WP7 was designed for, not to NEED new devices, and not to create obsolete hardware with new releases. I'm glad all of these features will be on the original devices, it establishes the loyalty promised, and I'm excited what 2011 will bring. Considering Q4 this year will be a year of release, I think all of those included features, and more I'm sure, go beyond any educated person's realistic expectations, and are nothing short of satisfying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
Peew971 said:
Do you think WP7 didn't sell just because of the OS?
No, the hardware isn't compelling except for a couple of exceptions. Hardware is what drives sales initially and even with all the updates the Mozart, Trophy, Quantum, etc. will still be very average phones, specially when put next to a new Android or Apple phone.
Your point would be valid if the update was coming within 3 months but I bet you my Omnia 7 that won't be the case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are numerous Android devices running on newer hardware and they look like average devices next to a WP7 device, not the other way around. Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models, I don't see the need for an advancement in hardware. The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying. There is one iPhone released every year, and since people on this forum are so quick to compare the iPhone and WP7 though I'm against it, I'll do it. That one phone gets bought throughout the whole year, even without a single update. So, I am more excited to hear about updates seeing as a refresh in a 'look' isn't so much needed.
But, with that being said, I think the OEMs will showcase the new devices, not Microsoft, if there are any.
FiyaFleye said:
Though I would have liked to see "prettier" models
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
FiyaFleye said:
The update is actually coming in less than one month... Just saying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The C&P update is due soon, there's no ETA for anything else except 2011.
Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
Peew971 said:
That's what I'm saying! A great OS on average hardware isn't guaranteed to sell better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
This is one of the reasons I haven't upgraded yet. I want a great piece of distinctive hardware.
FiyaFleye said:
Again, that might be an OEM showcase though, not a Microsoft one, they don't make the phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase new phone to demo if there was one.
Peew971 said:
Allow me to have serious doubts. Samsung and LG already had their conference with no mention of WP7. That leaves HTC, Dell and maybe Acer. I think Microsoft would have had at least one showcase show to demo if there was one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
So it seems like anyone with half a brain was correct - Microsoft is playing Apple's cynical game of withholding vital, easily-implemented features so that they can add them later to much media fanfare
They are reaching out to the casual base by gaining media support (these guys just loooove routine feature updates), presenting the illusion of "moving forward" ("hey look, we can do THAT now!") and not overwhelming the nontechnical user by not having all features available from the get-go.
In the process they are pissing on the so-called 'core base' (which aren't their core base at all obviously - clearly there is much more money to be made from the easily-impressionable, technologically-retarded crowd)
And that's all fine and dandy, but I just don't understand why people from THIS site would support this business model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
keyboardP said:
In the conference, Ballmer mentioned the next generation of hardware announcements will be later on in the year. I wouldn't expect to see new hardware until either Christmas this year or next year. The Nokia concept images look quite nice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
Pickx said:
Since the last thread had a 'no opinions' rule, I'll post this here:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I honestly think you're wrong here. Apple does this to warrant the purchase of a new iPhone, and outdate their older models, whereas the WinPhone releases are going to work on original launch devices. It isn't as though Microsoft is charging us for these updates either, they have no incentives to hold back these updates, actually, in the position they're in, it's in their best interest to be quick with them.
Pickx said:
I'll add that people who seriously think a corporation the size of Microsoft couldn't deliver a more 'complete' version of WP7 on launch day are, to put it lightly, mistaken. Yeah, sure, some may argue that modern (post-iPhone) rules insist that if an important feature is not user-friendly or polished enough, the whole user experience falls flat - therefore it may be wise to give features like multitasking a few more months of polish.
However I believe that this is all part of the modern-day model of releasing products in a beta state and subsequently updating them, since far too many costumers are seemingly okay with this behavior (worse, they cheer when a new feature update is on its way, even if these features should have been there from the beginning!).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't be so cynical. The first thing people are going to do when entering a dominated market is to compare the two devices. I don't think copy and paste was left out for tactical reasons because it's such a basic feature that it created more negativity at launch than positivity right now.
Apple could afford to do that because of their following and the 'trendy' kids who would buy the product regardless of what it has or doesn't have, because it has the 'Apple' brand on it.
Also, with you comparing the size of MS to its capabilities of releasing products shows a lack of understanding of how the company actually works. In fact, its size actually works against it at times.
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
Peew971 said:
Oh yeah, I have no doubts we'll see new phones this year but if they come around Christmas along with the Nokia phones that's a whole year gone with only average devices on sale. That's not going to boost sales.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MS is in it for the long run though. It would make little sense in releasing devices running on current hardware specs, when people could wait towards the end of the year for the next generation specs. Of course, they might do that, but I don't think it makes much sense to.
keyboardP said:
There are some features that may be delayed for tactical reasons (flash?), but I hardly think copy/paste and multitasking would be dropped in order to gain some fanfare as they actually harmed the product when inevitably compared to the iPhone at launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but which crowd did it hurt its chances with? The kind of who compare features and read tech blogs aka NOT the casuals. This crowd is becoming increasingly irrelevant when it comes to actually selling devices.
I still think the biggest reason to withhold features is media support. Mobile phone wars have demonstrated time and time again that constant media attention is cardinal to continued interest in a product (especially when said product is, say, an operating system a.k.a something which an entire line of products is based on). By routinely making feature updates, and delivering said features with some "user experience glitter" on top, Apple has been able to receive constant attention even from news outlets that are not strictly related to consumer tech. Microsoft would, naturally, want a similar treatment but according to my view, they are doing this the easy way - not by announcing feature updates that contain so-called revolutionary features but rather with features that the competition has already had for a while.
Also, if WP7 had copy/paste, multitasking, Flash on launch date, what would Ballmer be showing us now on MWC? Tight SkyDrive integration is a fantastic feature IMO but the average non-techie guy who already has a WP7 device just wouldn't find it as "sexy" as a YouTube video that shows the device multitasking.
Apologies if this has been covered to death, I don't recall reading it anywhere though....
With rumors of W8/WP8 shipping some time next year, have MS announced the plans to upgrade WP7 devices?
Thing is I'm due an upgrade around March 2012. If i was to say go for the equivalent of whatever the Lumia 900 ends up being, is this likely to get the upgrade to WP8 when it's launched or WP7 generation devices in general.
In an akward position where I don't want to keep my Omnia 7 any longer than I have to when i'm in a position to upgrade....
Thanks,
Like you i am currently running a first generation WP7 handset (HTC HD7) albeit not locked into a contract. With numerous second generation handsets coming out I still do not feel the urge in upgrading nor do I feel the urge in moving to another OS.
Currently it is rumored that WP7 Tango, an interim release between WP7 Apollo which has been touted as potentially being WP8 has been said to be released half way through 2012 and the end of 2012 respectively. Although this should be taken with a grain of salt.
Tango is said to be a small update which is to be focused on cheaper handsets although it would appear it is to support dual core and a higher screen resolution and a few more features, as I don’t think they could wait till Apollo to release these features. Some people have said Apollo will be windows phone 8 and i would not be surprised if this is true as it would be imperfect timing with windows 8 and would secure continuity between their offerings. Microsoft has put a massive emphasizes on minimum specification in WP7 and the future windows 8, they have even stated that one of their parameters for windows 8 was to have equal or smaller system requirements then Windows 7. I assume this kind of thinking and mentality was translated to Windows Phone.
Whilst second generation phones will weather the test of time better than a first generation phone I highly doubt Microsoft will leave first generation and second generation in the dark as alienating the early adopters would perhaps be the worst strategy they could do. Although the new phones are tempting I think I can survive with my HD7 for the time being although something like a HDC radar would be a good intermediate phone between the second Gen and third Gen device as it is priced well.
I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.
Yeh... I'd assumed we would definintely get Tango as it's touted as an intermediate update before WP8/Apollo.
I'd happily hang on but it would mean i'd have had the Omnia for 2 years, and i've had enough problems with it already. Craving something by Nokia....
PG2G said:
I'd be very surprised if Microsoft wasn't providing phones with at least two years worth of updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two years seems like a reasonable timeframe, but I seriously doubt that they will support any device longer than that. Just think about the hardware changes that have either been added or are on the roadmap that don't exist on 1st gen phones: gyroscopes, FFCs, NFC. The way phone technology is evolving, anything over two years old is a dinosaur (and in most cases, worn out), and I really don't see any manufacturer willingly offering to support such devices.
Buy a phone without a contract ?
sin_nombre said:
the requirements for windows 8 on PCs are the same as they have been for vista and how old are those computers? much more than 2 years. they are also still making builds of WM6.x (all the way into the 29xxx build series) but they just arent currently being released on any devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never mind. I don't respond to eric.
http://www.wpcentral.com/lg-focusing-android-no-new-windows-phone-planned
the commenters on after that article are basicly flaming LG for not being a quality company, and making boring phones. given todays phones are generally a flat, keyboardless, rectangular slab, i don't see how this is true compared to other manufacturers.
i expected to see sad comments from people that wanted more for the platform. i guess the general consensus is the platform is not related to the hardware, or sales, in any way ?
it also seems it would be a tougher market to sell in being just another android device than having something different to sell.
i have zero experience with LG products. don't think i've ever bought one, so i can't comment on quality or craftsmanship.
interesting stuff.
I've owned exactly 3 LG devices. The first was the Fathom with WM6.5, it was a decent device but the screen size was so disproportional as far as length vs. width that it was unusable in portrait mode. The second was the Android-based Ally, see my comments regarding the Fathom. The last was the Quantum. If not for the inability to change MMS carrier settings I'd still have this phone.
While it is not in WP7's best interest to have manufacturers bow out and claim (in a roundabout way) that it was the OS that caused lackluster sales, it probably benefits MS to have only solid, good performing phones showing off its software. The public is very fickle and reading about LG's demise within WP7 can create a false image which MS needs to stem yesterday. It's a shame that Dell has also bowed out because the DVP is one solid device. But as in the case of LG, Dell didn't exactly make an effort to market their products and left them to die an ignominious death. Goodbye and good riddance, or as I prefer to say, don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you.
It was never more than a tentative toe in the water from LG in respect of Windows Phone. Surprise surprise, the manufacturer's lackluster commitment has resulted in a product line that is not viable for them.
If they fail to make distinctive Android products (or products that are distinctive but clearly not at all desirable to consumers, e.g. the Jill Sanders phone) then that product line will suffer the same fate.
They put in a half-assed effort and didn't get much from it. shocking.
http://wmpoweruser.com/lg-denies-st...offer-consumers-as-wide-a-choice-as-possible/
LG denies stepping out of Windows Phone game, wants to offer consumers “as wide a choice as possible”
just FYI guys
LG not exactly quiting Windows Phone
They look like they might comeback once winPhone 8 hits the market
Speculation: "maybe lg will do x after y hits the market in z-time."
Whatever, when a hardware maker drops a product, its over unless drones of people start throwing money at them. Or companies. Or governments. It isn't happening.