I wrote this to explain to the new users why they might get what they consider short or bad answers... when really they aren't!
First off, this is meant to be a basic guide for basic understanding, there may be things that are slightly wrong or not completely accurate (to some experts) but this is for BASIC UNDERSTANDING and not meant to bash or flame any ideas, beliefs or operating systems. If anyone wants any more information they will know how to find it.
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Why you get short/one word answers!
A lot of users here are sometimes confused, disgruntled or scared off by confusing short -sometimes one word- answers.
I thought i would take some time to explain. And it will take time. For the short story go down to the bottom. Sit back and get ready to understand why you feel you aren't understanding something........
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The Long Answer
This is also a common problem with new users in linux forums. This is no co-incidence! It is not that the more knowlegable members are ignorant, short, or rude. They just speak in quick short answers to help you (help yourself).
Why you get short or one word answers!
Let me start on Linux. I personally am not a user, but i have researched it. It is not for me personally, it does not have the features I need or support some of my fancy hardware. Dont get me wrong, Linux is a Great alternative for many users, beginner or advanced. I would consider installing Ubuntu (built on Linux) for my friends parents or grandparents! And anyone else that likes the way iOS is built but doesn't want Apple. But Linux is LOVED by programmers! Why ? Because its Open Source software.
What is Open Source?
Open source software is written "un-compiled" meaning anyone can "open" up the program, read it, learn how it works, or edit it***
How can you legally edit someones program and use it yourself?
GPL General Public License - the linux kernel and many other things are licenced under this.
Basically it is the opposite of copyright, meaning everything under the licence is free, and can and must be able to be read, edit and be re-used to what ever means the other party wants, as long as what they do is under the GPL as well. So any program that works with GPL software, uses code or ideas from GPL software (no matter how small), shares programming libraries with, ect.... MUST BE FREE and OPEN SOURCE. This can be messy for people that want to make money off certain ideas and software.. But,... its all in the name of freedom. Lets just leave it there.
What does any of this have to do with Android?
Android is built on a Linux derived kernel, most of the code for the famous android kernel came for linux! so.... GPL.... so... Open Source!
**This is why android app developers ask you to "donate to" not "buy" their app.** Its a Google Android / GPL thing.
So why do programmers like Linux and or Open Source?
They like it because they are constantly learning and curious! With Linux or any program/software that runs on/with/for Linux they can learn how it works! Better yet, if they want their program to do that, all they have to do is copy and paste it from where they saw it first, then edit it to their own means.
How programmers think:
Im curious about "X"....
Im going to search for "X" where i think im going to find it
I found it! I like it,
Hmm what is this in here? What is "Y"??
Im going to search for "Y"
NO!?! I ll ask a buddy programmer....
He told me "Z" just... "Z"
Im going to search for "Z"
OH!! that makes sense!!!!
Im going to use that!
See a common trend? Search, learn, search, ask, search, learn, search, ask , search.
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In programming this leads to the thinking, "Why type something again if its already been typed? - I can copy and paste!!!"
Similarly:
In forums and helping others it leads to thinking "Why type something that has already been typed? - If you search "X", you find something that has already been typed and i dont have to copy and paste it or find it for you!!!. " Search this word.....
On top of that, programming code uses many "short forms", "broken words" and "gibberish" that makes a lot of sense when you know what it means. This results in thinking in short terms that mean a lot (to them)!
Closing
As said above its not out of being rude or elitist, its a way of thinking.
-That way of thinking is a part of programming, and leaning anything in that world, you have to learn the way of thinking. >
-Part of the learning to think that way is getting fed up and saying "Im just going to find out myself!!" >
-Then, by the time you learn how to find anything you want to know on your own, you have an epiphany and realize they were telling you "exactly what you needed to hear". They were the Oracle and you are Neo. The Matrix has you, and it was all about the journey!
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The short answer as promised!
If they give you one word > search that word. the information is out there already probably many times over!
Why re-write it again for you?
Start with searching the website you are at. (might want to add a second word to help narrow searches EG. for xda would be your device name or OS)
Next search google! - i know its new but it looks promising!
Wikipedia is good too!
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Reason #2 we are replying from the XDA APP! - Get XDA Premium App to support XDA!
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I hope this helps some people understand what is going on and why they feel left out.
see also...
XDA NEW USERS GUIDE
and...
A Plead to the members of XDA..
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What is XDA??
originally posted by kyphur:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself?" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
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well said...........
Sorry to be a downer, but you misspelled "First off"
Not anymore its not :
P
you sir ... just earned your 200th thanks for writing this, this should help out both newcomers and us vets tyring to help them at the same time. awesome.
HAPPY 200!!
studacris said:
you sir ... just earned your 200th thanks for writing this, this should help out both newcomers and us vets tyring to help them at the same time. awesome.
HAPPY 200!!
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+1
Thanks alot Tru!! That's gonna (hopefully) save us so much time
Well said. I am new to these forums but have come close to jumping threw the monitor at the ones that say "just tell me" in answer to "search is your friend".
The best post I've seen for a while, many thanks.
Now, how to get everyone to read it?
A very good thread =) and hopefully helpful to all
TRusselo said:
Reason #2 we are replying from the XDA APP! - Get XDA Premium App to support XDA!
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EXACTLY. I cannot tell you how many people have asked me "what is with the typos", or "why so short, u mad bro?", even when at the bottom of the post, it clearly states "Sent from my Cliq2 using XDA Premium App"
Very nicely said. I know I've joined the right forum now!!
This is so true, I'm not a Dev, but I am a technician, and we techies think the same way.
Also, off topic, but ya gotta love that movie reference.
TRusselo said:
They were the Oracle and you are Neo. The Matrix has you, and it was all about the journey!
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u r the king
Thanks......why won't it let me use a one word post though. lol
crit71 said:
Thanks......why won't it let me use a one word post though. lol
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To stop n00bs posting useless posts everywhere saying "thanks". There is a thanks button for that.
TheATHEiST said:
To stop n00bs posting useless posts everywhere saying "thanks". There is a thanks button for that.
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That is the second greatest post I've ever read on XDA, the first was the OP, which is getting added to my sig.
newbie says thanks
can't click the thanks botton 7 more posts to go.
Wish I could've hit the thanks button many times!!!
Great post sir!
Tapashocked via my gt-I9003 with a random keyboard of my choice !
Tapashocked via my gt-I9003 with a random keyboard of my choice !
Great post to help a new user. The info on searching when you get a one word answer is great advice.
Nice write up! Missed this one somehow but your spot on, especially when it comes to the use of the search button.
Added a link to my sig too and spanked your thanks button.
Related
does anyone have a link to the guitar hero cab? greatly appreaciated
Seconded.... except my message is much to short
Me too Please !!
why is everyone so protective of it, ive seen numerous posts on this site with people claiming they have it yet noone wants to give it up. it'd be greatly appreaciated i mean we are all here for the same reason, to help eachother out.
Probably because its copyrighted
just because someone has it, it doesnt mean they are going to freely give it out to anyone. It's not being rude, just selective. For example, if I had this game. I would only give it out to other people that have contributed to this site, not just a bunch of leechers that gain info or software and have nothing reciprocating to offer. And secondly it would be via PM or other communication ways. Not posted publicly on this site (which is against site rules)
Put it this way.... i'm not going to tell you where ( again against site rules) but there IS a site that has this app posted ( cTacked version) but you will need to find out where it is posted for yourself.
spikey911 said:
Probably because its copyrighted
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Quite true, but isnt distributing edited versions of Windows Mobile O/S.
I am not complaining btw without Kavana and Rickys WM6.1 i would be stuck with BT Bloatware.
its really not that great. i was able to nail every song on the highest settings with little effort. its mainly good to just show off. plus you need a good interneet connection to get the songs
nickydash said:
why is everyone so protective of it, ive seen numerous posts on this site with people claiming they have it yet noone wants to give it up. it'd be greatly appreaciated i mean we are all here for the same reason, to help eachother out.
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Why do schoolchildren hide things behind their backs and say "MINE! You can't have it!"?
beartard said:
Why do schoolchildren hide things behind their backs and say "MINE! You can't have it!"?
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so you leechers keep your grubby paws off
I'm not a leecher. Never asked for a damned bit of your warez (I always hated the whole fake-music genre of games), but it seems like I hit a nerve with that comment. Guess if you have it, you're a leecher.
All I was saying is that having something like guitar hero makes certain people feel special...because they have it and others don't. If they let it out too liberally, just like the child in the schoolyard, they're not special anymore because everybody is the same again. They lose the "look what I got and you don't" shine.
It's a nasty attitude and shows that people really don't grow up. If you don't want to give it out, you really don't have to say anything at all. But it's the schoolboy in you that has to yell "MINE!"
To the original poster, Guitar Hero III mobile is available online. T-Mobile has it in their downloads as well. And I'm not sure who told you we're all here for the same reason: to help each other out. There are quite a lot of people here who feel they're at some elite status and can't be bothered with people who are where they were, say, ten months ago.
problem is, that most people dont contribute to this site ( or at least this forum) they sit here asking all sorts of questions, but never offer any help to others. Im not an eliteist.... i did what most techy type guys most like did when they first got their phones, they dabbled with it, figured crap out for themselves, and when they didnt, they found the almightly google for help. Once they started to put 2 & 2 together with what their phone could and couldnt do, they started offering help to others, and i stress help. Help is not giving out software that they have and saying: " here ya go! " help is actually resolving someone elses problem. and i hardly think that a software request is a problem. For those certain individuals that i've seen on this site actuall make a signifigant contribution to help others that are in need, when they've hit me up for software, i've always hooked them up, but for the ones that "hit & run" and have not had anything to offer to date, i dont give them anything. (and i stress give). its not like im going to be seeing these people on what you call the schoolgrounds anytime soon and i dont really care how many people have the same software i have. i do feel that some deserve it and some dont , based on their merit. simply googling guitar hero III and finding a thread in this forum, finding out that there is a guitar hero III for the mobile phone and then requesting it is not contributing anything in any way. ( BTW i've been with this forum since nov of 2006 and have had a smartphone since WM2003 so i dont know where you are getting your 10 months ago figure)
Nah, dude, that wasn't meant as a slight to you. I can't disagree with anything you wrote. I'm fairly new here myself (though I've had a smartphone since I had WM2003 on my Samsung SCH-i600 with Verizon). I joined it because it's a relatively well-respected forum in the smartphone community and a place that everyone asking questions elsewhere is sent to.
The problem is this forum just lacks moderation and organization. Being new here, I feel sorry for people just showing up and having to dive through this mess. Yes, a lot of questions get repeated. But it's fiendishly easy to say "justfuckinggoogleit.com" to the point that over 80% of a user's posts reflect that..again, without giving any real help. It makes the community look bad as a whole. That's what pisses me off.
I think being called a leech kinda set me off, too, since there's nothing on my phone (except the ROM) that's not either bought-and-paid-for or freeware.
im not calling you specifically a leech. im calling the people with 2 posts, one being "hey, can you also send guitar hero to me too??", leeches. they are the same retards that post 400000 times "HELP! ZOMG!!! I FINALLY GOT THE ROM TO WORK BUT MY KEYBOARD LAYOUT IS MESSED UP". ya know what i think of that? **** YOU AND YOUR KEYBOARD. if you are too stupid to read or use the SEARCH function (not google), then you are too stupid to use a phone like this. i realize that most are just lazy and are above searching for the answer or reading a few pages..to them i also have a heart felt **** you.
if someone has 50 or 100 posts and asks a silly question, i will gladly provide the answer if i know it. but the guy with 2 posts in 6 months can go find it himself.
when your first reaction to an issue you have with your phone is to post it in a new thread....you dont deserve help. how about doing some of the legwork yourself instead of posting "i NEED a step by step set of instructions blah blah blah". what you NEED is a kick in the nuts.
and if you really feel that by us saying "go do a search the topic has been discussed 4500000 times" makes the community look bad.....how does the community look when you have a bunch of posts by people with 2 post to date, asking all the same questions as eachother? i think its retarded that some senior users actually have to use their signatures to list step by step instructions for some of the most talked about topics, just so they dont have to type it for the 10000th time. hows that make our community look? makes it look like there are a handful of people that know what they are doing and it makes the rest look like a buncha n00b tards that are leading eachother down the stupid trail.
SO damn true!!! On that note LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO
Dont worry gixxum , in all kind of forums there are newbie that made all kind of Questions, there are other that helps to this newbie and there are other how you that say **** to this newbie, it is normal, there are everything in this world.
Thanks
satru said:
Dont worry gixxum , in all kind of forums there are newbie that made all kind of Questions, there are other that helps to this newbie and there are other how you that say **** to this newbie, it is normal, there are everything in this world.
Thanks
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at the risk of sounding rude.... what?
Mikey1022 said:
SO damn true!!! On that note LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO LMFAO
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FOR ALL THE NOOBS: IF YOU HAVE ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, OR JUST WANNA TALK ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS, PM MIKEY1022
hahah
gixxum said:
FOR ALL THE NOOBS: IF YOU HAVE ANY TECHNICAL QUESTIONS, OR JUST WANNA TALK ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS, PM MIKEY1022
hahah
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Don't go there....AGAIN!!! lol
This seems like De Ja Vue
I only hope that you helps me when and make a Question and you know the answer because i have in 1 month more than 50 post.
gixxum said:
if someone has 50 or 100 posts and asks a silly question, i will gladly provide the answer if i know it. but the guy with 2 posts in 6 months can go find it himself.
QUOTE]
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*sigh*.. It's like asking for permission to ask a question. You'd be best off asking here directly.. Developers tend to have different strengths and weaknesses
Tehpriest said:
Looking for someone to put together a small app for me
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You should at least describe what kind of app is that
If I were to say openly then it would give someone else the opportunity to make the same app and the Dev (if there is one) who would agree to make it wcould lose out even if only on the credit for making it.
Im guessing in order to get help you can't automatically presume that most developers are d*cks who steal ideas from other people.
Now you are putting words into my mouth. Not really helpful that. Though the vast majority are not there is always a small number who plagiarise as is seen in the market. Now may I thank you for your comments as I await an answer.
I'm guessing you wont pay them either? I think developers might be reluctant if they feel that after hearing it, they might get in trouble for deciding they wont go ahead (I've been in that situation before)
As a developer... what? I have no idea what you're on about.
If you want a developer you need to:
1. Make available information about what you want developed.
2. Pay someone (a reasonable sum), or have a genuinely interesting project. The later being substantially less likely than the former.
Yeah...even if I pm'd you for information, and then decided I can't proceed on developing it... isn't it the same? I would have heard your idea anyway, so you're better off saying it directly. ;-)
Or... you could apply for a patent on it if you fear there are lots of thieves here lmao
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
OK thanks for all the replies I will put my idea to a Dev forum that welcomes them.
Guys, please try and keep this on-topic without resorting to flaming the moment I close this tab.
@OP, XDA is all about sharing and working together to achieve common goals. As a result, developers here tend to work best when others can get involved. This kind of post pops up now and then, but these ideas usually end up unfulfilled due to the lack of information available.
And remember this is people's hobby, not necessarily their job, so most people aren't about to commit to making an app when they have no idea what it is. If it's not interesting to them, they likely won't want to do it.
awww sulky wulky. Hey any devs wanna build an app for me? I'm selling it but won't pay for it, and have no way of supporting it further down the line? No? Didn't think so. Flan.
Tehpriest said:
OK thanks for all the replies I will put my idea to a Dev forum that welcomes them.
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How would you know if the developer that you share the idea will not simply use it for his own profit?
This is xda-developers (a developer community) and I never heard about a case of stolen ideas here.
If you'd like to find some help implementing an idea, you should at least describe the developer profile, technologies,...
i.e. I'm looking for a developer to build a simple 2D game that connects to a website to load pictures using http protocol.... No previous experience required, All source code should be sent to me and I'll share the profits.... please PM me for details.
You can try rent-a-coder and, for a fee you have your idea implemented.
Your arrogance is not welcome here pal.
Good luck with your idea.
I make a post offering to give someone my idea for an app that if they can make they can do what they like with and I get flamed for it. I am not a Dev, I am very new to Android OS. I see a need and think someone may find it easy to meet that need so try to make it known so an individual may even if the want profit from it. And for this I get called arrogant and told I am not welcome.
And as for the trolling I will not comment.
Tehpriest said:
OK thanks for all the replies I will put my idea to a Dev forum that welcomes them.
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good luck, you won't find any! you come here asking for someone willing to do some stuff for you you won't tell them about before they agree to do it? lol! why should ANYONE agree to that. i, for one, am not interested on this conditions. also, this here (xda & android) is about community development, open source and therefore open ideas where everyone can profit.
if you wan't to sell the app then hire some dev for 20$/h but then you are indeed @ the wrong place here. otherwise just tell everyone about your idea and IF it's interesting, some people might pick it up...
Go and ask an iPhone dev if you wanna behave like that...not because youd fit in being a wanker but because they're much more commercially minded. It's funny in your original post you kinda imply most people working in this section and putting out material are not 'proper devs'. This is xda and this is open...people suggest apps all the time and people make it for free and maybe include ads or small charge to cover there costs, see lag fix, noled and galaxy s sim unlocker on market. You can be like the idea makers from there and just go 'that covers my needs and it's cool' or you can merrily skip along to an iPhone dev who is all profit.
Tehpriest said:
I make a post offering to give someone my idea for an app that if they can make they can do what they like with and I get flamed for it. I am not a Dev, I am very new to Android OS. I see a need and think someone may find it easy to meet that need so try to make it known so an individual may even if the want profit from it. And for this I get called arrogant and told I am not welcome.
And as for the trolling I will not comment.
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So let's make it clear: you are offering the dev the idea and if he realizes it, all profits would go to him? He will publish it and everything? So why don't tell it straight away, if it's interesting someone will do it. Even if 2 or 3 people do it, there will be 2 or 3 apps for the same purpose. So what? How many im clients or gps navigation software are on the market, and still coming out? Do you think only one of them is getting money and the others don't? Users also like to have choice...
However you should at least tell what kind of skills are required? 2/3d gaming? Databases? Web connection? Kernel hacking? I think even if you aren't a developer yourself it shouldn't be difficult answering these questions... at least you are selecting potential candidates... that would be the minimum requisite for posting such requests, how can I know if I could do it if I don't even know what skills are required? Not all developers have the same background you know...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Tehpriest said:
OK thanks for all the replies I will put my idea to a Dev forum that welcomes them.
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Well that's just the problem. You haven't put your idea to this forum.
I bet it was a clock widget.
Guys,
This one has gone way off topic based largely on assumptions which is very unfair on the OP.
Closing this now.
WB
Tehpriest said:
If I were to say openly then it would give someone else the opportunity to make the same app and the Dev (if there is one) who would agree to make it wcould lose out even if only on the credit for making it.
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You are not going to dev it by the sounds of it, so it is really not up to you to keep such a project closed, isn't that exactly what you are asking to happen anyway? ( have another dev make it for you. )
You are coming on a forum, asking if any dev is willing to work on a secret project... ?
If there is money involved, and thus a reason for secrecy, do mention it.
ebbhead said:
I bet it was a clock widget.
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More like a pink flashlight.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1343114
works on widlfire s apparently.
I sold mine but though you guys might like this
Edit :: apologies GSM users this will not work on your Wildfire S
Feel free to delete this thread
Doesn't work.
Tools
l00k said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1343114
works on widlfire s apparently.
I sold mine but though you guys mihgt like this
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I had spied that awhile ago. Finally tested it marvelc side; didn't work except for the desensing/resensing. That works from all indications.
I also found an apk on the market I've mentioned a few times that does root/unroot; It's called un-Rooting [and the subtitles are in a language I can't read; but it works marvelc side][anyone care to test it gsm side?]; busybox [installer] also available on market. I've found market apps to be easy advice.
As for gsm'ers only known tool [still] to work is the xtc clip; which is a small hardware device one can order for around $40; Simonsimon34 has the latest s-off guide for marvelc.
Alquez's cwm works on both cdma & gsm
Thought I'd drop mention of these tools again.
Rob
PS I found a really useful market app that was started here on xda.. ZDbox I got to find the thread and thank the developer, but it has battery percentage/status & power-saver, task killer, app uninstaller/management [inc Apps2sd], and System Cleaner [cache & history]. Can replace 4-5 apps with this one. Good good end-user tool.
Another misleading thread. l00k, please ask a mod to delete this.
It's already proven that it doesn't work on GSM phones.
The Wildfire S is already full of information on how to s-off CDMA phones.
There is no need to confuse more people.
I guess I can speak on behalf of all WFS GSM users. Please delete this. PLEASE!
Who created the Super Tool and who posted a thread about it on XDA should first confirm if the information is correct. It DOESN'T work on Wildfire S except CDMA versions.
In case you still didn't get it, this is NOT directed to you. It's a general complaint:
It's incredible that so many people post things just because somebody says it works.
Wouldn't it be smarter to confirm first and post after? I'm not talking about you, l00k.
I'm really tired of reading the same crap over and over again, including the people that almost want to force us to buy a XTC Clip. Some say it isn't rocket science because we can sell it after using... but maybe some people just don't have the time, patience or money to do that. It's easy to talk about ourselves. I guess some people should learn how to walk in other people's shoes.
A simple "Doesn't work on GSM" would of done the trick.
You don't get S-OFF for being a ****
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA App
l00k said:
A simple "Doesn't work on GSM" would of done the trick.
You don't get S-OFF for being a ****
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA App
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Are you happy now that you've insulted someone that didn't disrespect you?
Congratulations for your smart post. Seriously! I love when people are rude and unpolite. It just shows their character.
miguelca said:
Are you happy now that you've insulted someone that didn't disrespect you?
Congratulations for your smart post. Seriously! I love when people are rude and unpolite. It just shows their character.
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*sigh*
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA App
l00k said:
You don't get S-OFF for being a ****
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Seriously dude. Migualca is anything but that.
One of the most supportive and helpful people around here...Behind myself of course. LOL jk
I think an apology would be in order.
Look guys... this dude read something and posted it to try and be helpful. Don't throw stones at him just explain.
Sent from somewhere too far away from my computer
question
Although this thread is a repeat and will get deleted because... well if you read it, its just not what xda is about. Even so, I will ask a gsm'r does this tool seem to perform only zerg-rush, desense and resense like on cdma side? Or does nothing work, differences? It does not work for root cdma side, unroot fails, and the methodology is different so I doubt it would s-off on our side. I will contact the developer to specify partial functionality with WFS but no s-off (upon gsm analysis confirmation). Discuss.
Rob
benjamingwynn said:
Look guys... this dude read something and posted it to try and be helpful. Don't throw stones at him just explain.
Sent from somewhere too far away from my computer
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nobody threw stones at him in the first place.
I explained why this thread should be removed and also took the opportunity to talk about other annoying habits. I think it's pretty clear I wasn't referring to l00k, so I really don't understand why he replied that way.
It seems that he accepted the general criticism as it was directed only to him.
Thanks to d33ps1x for his support. I try my best to help the community and suddendly I get called a ****...
How about an apology instead?
This kind of thread leads to nothing but legacy again...
d33ps1x said:
Seriously dude. Migualca is anything but that.
One of the most supportive and helpful people around here...Behind myself of course. LOL jk
I think an apology would be in order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I apologised in my initial post to GSM users but I wont apologise for my reaction to what was in no way a supportive and useful reply from Migualca. In fact its the most annoying thing anyone has ever said to me since joining these forums backl in 2006. Tact is a wonderful thing (jk)
Anyway this was posted to help and I genuinely do hope you guys get your software S-OFF. I've still got my blacklisted wildfire S and would be willing to rip its guts out testing tools like this to help.
d33ps1x said:
Seriously dude. Migualca is anything but that.
One of the most supportive and helpful people around here...Behind myself of course. LOL jk
I think an apology would be in order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Besides already having clicked "thanks" I felt the need to express my gratitude for your post.
You are also very supportive and helpful, the kind of user XDA needs.
There is one thing on earth that I don't tolerate to ANYBODY: lack of respect/education. That's why my motto is: don't disrespect others if you don't want to be disrespected.
---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------
l00k said:
I apologised in my initial post to GSM users but I wont apologise for my reaction to what was in no way a supportive and useful reply from Migualca. In fact its the most annoying thing anyone has ever said to me since joining these forums backl in 2006. Tact is a wonderful thing (jk)
Anyway this was posted to help and I genuinely do hope you guys get your software S-OFF. I've still got my blacklisted wildfire S and would be willing to rip its guts out testing tools like this to help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A smart sentence that you should embrace too.
miguelca said:
Nobody threw stones at him in the first place.
I explained why this thread should be removed and also took the opportunity to talk about other annoying habits. I think it's pretty clear I wasn't referring to l00k, so I really don't understand why he replied that way.
It seems that he accepted the general criticism as it was directed only to him.
Thanks to d33ps1x for his support. I try my best to help the community and suddendly I get called a ****...
How about an apology instead?
This kind of thread leads to nothing but legacy again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only read the first and few last posts. It saves a lot of time. I myself pm'd the mod of this forums asking him to move it back. He did. Look at the wfs to legacy post
Anyway. Sorry if I miss understood the argument. I just saw one man trying to defend himself
Sent from somewhere too far away from my computer
Someone brave enough?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1416015
This may work.
miguelca said:
Besides already having clicked "thanks" I felt the need to express my gratitude for your post.
You are also very supportive and helpful, the kind of user XDA needs.
There is one thing on earth that I don't tolerate to ANYBODY: lack of respect/education. That's why my motto is: don't disrespect others if you don't want to be disrespected.
---------- Post added at 08:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------
A smart sentence that you should embrace too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
Guys, sry but pls stop it.
As much as i can see both of you told things that could be spelled another way
Miguelca i know, your pissed (sry for the bad spelling, but i think it hits the point) on, because you thought there finally is a way for gsm users to s-off their device without xtc and you where disappointed once more, but because of this it shouldn't be delteted, it should be marked like others with cdma only. I know it's hard and i also know you done much for the community, but try to be happy for others that they got one more option, i'm sure there will come a way for gsm users finally.
And 100k, sry but your rudness wasn't correct and your really should apology for it, there are other ways to tell such things than such a bad language.
At this point Miguelca is right, you should bring more respect to others, if he tells something that you think it's not true or should be handled another way, express it in a normal way not like you did. It's much more constructive and others can accept it or/and discuss it with you, but like you did they get angry and things get badder not better, so pls be patient next time and tell what you want to tell as smooth as you can.
Tectas said:
Guys, sry but pls stop it.
As much as i can see both of you told things that could be spelled another way
Miguelca i know, your pissed (sry for the bad spelling, but i think it hits the point) on, because you thought there finally is a way for gsm users to s-off their device without xtc and you where disappointed once more, but because of this it shouldn't be delteted, it should be marked like others with cdma only. I know it's hard and i also know you done much for the community, but try to be happy for others that they got one more option, i'm sure there will come a way for gsm users finally.
And 100k, sry but your rudness wasn't correct and your really should apology for it, there are other ways to tell such things than such a bad language.
At this point Miguelca is right, you should bring more respect to others, if he tells something that you thing it's not true or should be handled another way, express it in a normal way not like you did. It's much more constructive and others can accept it or/and discuss it with you, but like you did it they get angry and things get badder not better, so pls be patient next time and tell what you want to tell as smooth as you can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't worry tectas. This is definitely my last post about this bad soap-opera.
l00k doesn't care to reread my first post and doesn't want to admit that there is a part he must have overlooked or misunderstood. Some people want to be always on top, even when they have no arguments and need to use rude language. Just one simple conclusion: l00k wrote 212 posts since September 2006 and got 9 thanks. I'm here since June 2010, wrote 114 posts (before this one) and got 51 thanks.
I rest my case.
Tectas said:
Guys, sry but pls stop it.
As much as i can see both of you told things that could be spelled another way
Miguelca i know, your pissed (sry for the bad spelling, but i think it hits the point) on, because you thought there finally is a way for gsm users to s-off their device without xtc and you where disappointed once more, but because of this it shouldn't be delteted, it should be marked like others with cdma only. I know it's hard and i also know you done much for the community, but try to be happy for others that they got one more option, i'm sure there will come a way for gsm users finally.
And 100k, sry but your rudness wasn't correct and your really should apology for it, there are other ways to tell such things than such a bad language.
At this point Miguelca is right, you should bring more respect to others, if he tells something that you think it's not true or should be handled another way, express it in a normal way not like you did. It's much more constructive and others can accept it or/and discuss it with you, but like you did they get angry and things get badder not better, so pls be patient next time and tell what you want to tell as smooth as you can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are right about not deleting the posts like this and renaming them. If other posts hadn't been deleted (and I did search on the subject before posting) then I would have seen it was cdma only.
Sorry for calling you a **** miguelca it wasn't very nice and I should have elaborated a little more as to why your comment and comments like them annoy me so much. I don't spend much time in the wfs section anymore I saw the article in an rss feed from another android site and thought about you guys. I saw no other posts about the unlock tool so thought i'd share it. Seeing as this site is international and this section is not just about gsm phones it is a valid thread. Try not to jump on people so quickly.
FYI the thanks button hasn't been there since the dawn of time.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA App
l00k said:
I think you are right about not deleting the posts like this and renaming them. If other posts hadn't been deleted (and I did search on the subject before posting) then I would have seen it was cdma only.
Sorry for calling you a **** miguelca it wasn't very nice and I should have elaborated a little more as to why your comment and comments like them annoy me so much. I don't spend much time in the wfs section anymore I saw the article in an rss feed from another android site and thought about you guys. I saw no other posts about the unlock tool so thought i'd share it. Seeing as this site is international and this section is not just about gsm phones it is a valid thread. Try not to jump on people so quickly.
FYI the thanks button hasn't been there since the dawn of time.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I already said that I wouldn't post again about this subject but now I have to.
l00k, thanks for publicly admitting that your comment wasn't very nice and for apologising. I appreciate your gesture.
You didn't explain why I annoyed you so much with my words and that's why I didn't understand the reaction from your side.
Thanks for your intention to help this community and sorry for jumping so quickly on you with a "hard" comment.
As you know a big part of my post wasn't directed to you, but I get the idea...
In the future I will try not to "jump on people" so quickly.
Oh and BTW I know the thanks button isn't available since the beginning.
This was just a way to show you that in general my comments are well accepted and also thanked for. No regrets. Peace.
Remember how in High School or College you would have to DO YOUR RESEARCH to find your information before turning it in to your teacher or professor?...So far in the past 12 months this XDA School Research Skill and Overall GPA has dropped. In this SGSII class of the school, we are bringing our GPA up, and now we are on a level thats "considered passing". I was a new student in this class about 2 weeks ago and everyone made me feel like I was at home, but the rest of the school im not to sure about. XDA school was the one everyone went to about everything Android. Now since the teachers and students are slowly turning in degrees, we are loosing a lot of our students and teachers to other schools. We cannot let this happen because this is where it all started. We have to start gaining the quality of our school back, our prestige is dropping.
So lets get started...
Instead of teachers having to spend extra time assisting students, students should learn to RESEARCH and Experiment on their own time. Teachers only volunteer at this school. No paychecks, pensions, workman's compensation, just breaks and retiremen. Teachers should help students more and explain things more in a detailed fashion. XDA School is changing so we have to change with it. Dont fight it, go with the flow and make it work for everyone. There has to be a line to draw in the middle, where students can help one another, troubleshoot, and have fun with the teachers. Im a teacher myself and comming up with lesson plans that will hold everyone in the class over until I write a new one is not easy. Sleep is lost, donations are good, but overall not good enough to deal with the stress in our personal lives because we all go through it. Competition is always present but thats no excuse for teachers to critique other teachers. We may not be together in reality but we are a community, so lets act like it.
:-D
_Thursday
good luck. Popularity of this site attracts the people in school who just want to get by and have all the answers given to them. I can't see this thread going in the right direction. These threads just make things worse to be honest
jessejames111981 said:
good luck. Popularity of this site attracts the people in school who just want to get by and have all the answers given to them...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
to be specific
... on a silver platter and spoon fed
it's not just this section, it's all over XDA, all the popular devices are like that, even the new GN section
jessejames111981 said:
good luck. Popularity of this site attracts the people in school who just want to get by and have all the answers given to them. I can't see this thread going in the right direction. These threads just make things worse to be honest
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just thought it more people were aware of the issues we would be able to fix them together. Ill just have the principle close the class down if students and or teachers start to bring it down.
_Thursday
AllGamer said:
to be specific
... on a silver platter and spoon fed
it's not just this section, it's all over XDA, all the popular devices are like that, even the new GN section
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats such a shame, i have been around since android rooting started and being here on XDA was considered a privilege
_Thursday
I miss people being go getters and trying to learn stuff themselves. I think everyone is willing to help a noob but only if they are willing to help themselves. That's what we have a lack of, people trying to help themselves.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
xsteven77x said:
I miss people being go getters and trying to learn stuff themselves. I think everyone is willing to help a noob but only if they are willing to help themselves. That's what we have a lack of, people trying to help themselves.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The worse part about it is, the quality of the issues people report in threads. Most of the time they are "non issue issues" Meaning its not a bug in the ROM just a problem that they are having.
They will post their problem and hope for someone to get a fix for them and get upset when people flame them. The people who can fix the problem have no right to flame either. Fighting fire with fire has become way to common here. The people dont say things like "I looked online in such and such place but i dont understand what its telling me, or this method is outdated any updates on it", nothing like that, that shows they were putting fourth an effort in the first place. It was such a joy for me to research and learn because it led me to create ROMs and themes. I felt a lot better when I figured out how to fix my own problems and it made me a better Rooted android user.
I think te problem is "free stuff" attracts those type of people. Google has done a great thing with the open source stuff. I wish there was a system in place that encouraged organized companies to produce ROMs, granite that means those roms would be pay only and the current system doesn't work with it. You can choose to stick with the stock touchwiz rom OR you could pay to run aosp made by company X or you could download a free rom made by thursday. How much has this community donated to various devs in "hopes" they dev something good?
Android has blown up recently and people like to customize their phone. Old days of only tech geeks using roms are gone. People need answers fed to them. If they paid money for a rom they should be entitled to those answers given to them.
Agreed..
DARKSIDE...join us we have nice treats T989
jessejames111981 said:
I think te problem is "free stuff" attracts those type of people. Google has done a great thing with the open source stuff. I wish there was a system in place that encouraged organized companies to produce ROMs, granite that means those roms would be pay only and the current system doesn't work with it. You can choose to stick with the stock touchwiz rom OR you could pay to run aosp made by company X or you could download a free rom made by thursday. How much has this community donated to various devs in "hopes" they dev something good?
Android has blown up recently and people like to customize their phone. Old days of only tech geeks using roms are gone. People need answers fed to them. If they paid money for a rom they should be entitled to those answers given to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea brother, i mean ill say yea again to that one. If people actually paid for me to deliver week in and week out id quit my day job seriously to work right here from home.
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
I was here from the start with the G1, granted out was a few months after the release, buy nonetheless I did my own research asked questions when I was TRULY stuck and solved my own problems by searching the threads/forums. People come in here (XDA) and "flame" one another for asking a question and folks that come in here creating threads and posts REPEATEDLY about the same topic. It honestly needs to be stopped and monitored more closely because all it does is clutter threads and makes it difficult for those trying to do it on their own.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using XDA App
I haven't been here as long as most but since I joined when I purchased my evo it went from thank you to gimme gimme. Not to mention the flame fests,including entire threads filled with pics about the ensuing flame fest. Infractions should start being issued a lot more frequently and even to the point of issuing them to the members who post nothing questions over and over again and get in a tiff when they don't get an answer for "why is my phone crashing after I didn't wipe from cm7 to sense"anyways just wish it would go back to respect and appreciation.
via my bleached S2
as ridiculous as it seems, Maybe their should be an entire thread dedicated to a Roms "Issues" - I know creating another thread means another one to view, but jesus think about how many times a market error question could be answered by the title of a thread there and the amount of pages it would save on any given rom. I know this is literally bending to the will of noobs who won't research, but if you can't teach them, at least try to confine them
jessejames111981 said:
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
???...I dont follow you.
I never ask people to donate. Hes doing a bounty to get Eugene373 here.
_Thursday
hunterjay7 said:
as ridiculous as it seems, Maybe their should be an entire thread dedicated to a Roms "Issues" - I know creating another thread means another one to view, but jesus think about how many times a market error question could be answered by the title of a thread there and the amount of pages it would save on any given rom. I know this is literally bending to the will of noobs who won't research, but if you can't teach them, at least try to confine them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what your saying but that defeats the purpose, if i create a market error thread, then theyll ask for just about everything, the flood gates would open right up. If people would stop being lazy then everything would be ok.
_Thursday
jessejames111981 said:
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol
SGSII T989~ juggernaut v4.1~synergy v0.10
jessejames111981 said:
if you want money just have sammy start a thread for you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lmfao 10char
_Thursday said:
???...I dont follow you.
I never ask people to donate. Hes doing a bounty to get Eugene373 here.
_Thursday
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its an inside joke (a good one too) based on the amount of bounty threads he does and how quick he is to start them.
Reading this thread bummed me out. I'm somewhat new to all of this, and in the last couple of months have learned an INSANE amount about the android OS and how to make it "mine". I would have never been able to do so without the much appreciated help of all the knowledgeable people here on XDA. Yes, I agree, there are a crazy amount of duplicate posts, and pricks, and mindless idiots who for some reason have no issue posting a bash on a hard working dev for no apparent reason (f#& k those morons). Here is my question. What do you think of someone like me, who asks questions when he is stuck, and probably will continue to do so whenever he is hopelessly stuck, but always shows appreciation for valuable help received? There seem to be plenty of people here who enjoy helping noobs like me. I've helped a few, and it felt pretty good.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
Community Engagement on xda developers
Where has the spirit gone of developers, making something better for all.
We like to make our devices better then what "stock" brings us.
But some people seem to forget what we are doing here: Create & Share
Why do people think that the "Open Source" software we are modifying or hacking is theirs to claim or Copyright.
Why are we not sharing and making better what others create...
Has the spirit here really gone?
And do we just want FAME ! !
If I was to create an app and hack Android, HTC or Samsung software by re-writing and adding code to it.
If this took me hours to do, this is still "Open Source" and people can copy my code in to their work.
The devs here are all working in a "Grey" area, and it's really hard not to see your work else where.
Consider it as a compliment if it is that way.
It took Google, HTC & Samsung hours to create what they made, do we care, and not touch it...
I don't think so ! !
HTC encrypts the Sense software because they don't want people to modify it... Do we care?
I don't think so...
So why do people/devs here on xda think that they can claim it for themselves?
Why do other devs get banned, or threads get closed if something similar is published?
We all Kang from Google, HTC & Samsung, but if we use some code from our fellow devs on xda, are we doing something wrong?
I don't get this!
I would really like this to be an open discussion, and try to clear this up for all of us.
My intention is not to start a fight, so please reply in a civilized way.
This also not directed to anybody in person
I hope the XDA staff can put themselves in my/our position, and try to understand it from this point of view.
My thoughts 1 day later @ post 141
DutchDanny said:
After a full day on this thread, I got more response then what I expected.
Thank you all for your participation.
You took the time to read this and give your opinion.
You all made me grow in my opinion, and maybe even change it a bit
What did it bring me:
Sharing now is for me: Collectively Developing (tnx Hacre)
I have no problems in being wrong, and might not have picked the correct words in some parts.
HIS POST
Good explanation on how the staff thinks
Thanks to my friend Russ for his well spoken words
HIS POST - HIS POST
What is reasonable and what not.
Tnx Ben, my fellow team member got me thinking as well
HIS POST - HIS POST
What am I gonna do now
beside building a rom and a kernel....
Gonna dig even more in the smali code (tnx af974)
HIS POST - HIS POST
For me this discussion is finished... Tnx ALL I'm gonna move on...
If the staff thinks the same, lock it for reference.
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ETHOS of XDA-Developers
Back when I was a Senior Moderator, I was asked to put into words what the mythical Ethos of XDA-Developers was. This was then debated by the moderators, Administrators and owners, it was never formally adopted but it was accepted by most as the closest anyone had come to defining what XDA is (was).
Ethos: an English word based on a Greek word and denotes the guiding beliefs or ideals that characterize a community, a nation or an ideology.
XDA-Developers was founded on the simple principal that SHARING IS GOOD and when many people SHARE what they know, EVERYONE benefits. We exist upon this Ethos, we respect each other, we SHARE with each other, we do not judge one another and we HELP all who ask. We believe that while some may have more knowledge than another, none are more important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It pains me greatly to see how XDA has degraded over the years to become a playground of egos and pissing contests between little boys who think they own what they stole from someone else.
I have been a strong supporter of XDA for many, many years but, I find my desire to support XDA is waning as the climate of sharing and camaraderie shift toward a climate of ownership and entitlement.
agreed so many phones left behind due to ego and epeen ppl always bailing on phones just because its not popular it takes work to get publicity ...
Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk
it was the same issues on the galaxy s2. people kanging others and people getting annoyed and ending up releasing stuff with the exclusivity and banning others from using it.
android is an open source at the end of the day. if someone wants to kang someone as long as credits are given and links to the originator's thread what is wrong with that? at the end of the day it should be a compliment to the originator that someone wants to kang your work and share it with the masses.
now i can understand if someone passes something over as their own and did not give credits. that is wrong and the culprits should be banned. but as stated above if proper credits are given then i do not see the harm in things.
but again on the flip side though if i was to spend hours and hours on something then the person who asks me for permission they should respect that i do not want to share...it kinda goes both ways really so it is hard to judge...but there are devs and themers included who act like real divas and most of the time now they do things for fame as Danny mentioned.
at the end of the day we are xda and we are here as a community and here to make our phones better and that is why the devs on this awesome site come in...devs should be sharing ideas together..not competing against each other
Franzferdinan51 said:
agreed so many phones left behind due to ego and epeen ppl always bailing on phones just because its not popular it takes work to get publicity ...
Sent from my LG-P920 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure we are talking about the same thing here my friend, its a much more important subject, sharing, the main reason XDA exists (or so I thought)
btw, thanked u when i was trying to quote ya, oh well, Ill share some love
There is really no better way to say it as both Danny and Russ summarized it very well. We are all here for one reason and one reason only, to SHARE. Isnt this what the "community" is about? I just hope the admins take a moment and reevaluate some of the people with powers around.
Ah before I forget, if you are gonna patent your "ideas" I really think its time for you to get a hold of apple, you already qualified with this mentality and in MY opinion, you do NOT belong here.
OK done venting... Thank u for listening.
DaDoctor said:
Not sure we are talking about the same thing here my friend, its a much more important subject, sharing, the main reason XDA exists (or so I thought)
btw, thanked u when i was trying to quote ya, oh well, Ill share some love
There is really no better way to say it as both Danny and Russ summarized it very well. We are all here for one reason and one reason only, to SHARE. Isnt this what the "community" is about? I just hope the admins take a moment and reevaluate some of the people with powers around.
Ah before I forget, if you are gonna patent your "ideas" I really think its time for you to get a hold of apple, you already qualified with this mentality and in MY opinion, you do NOT belong here.
OK done venting... Thank u for listening.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh trust me it happens in other forums as well. sometimes xda favors those who they want to favor and do not pay any attention to the other party and they side with those who they want to side with..it looks like politics sometimes and whoever is the topdog here should re-valuate the way the mods run the show here.
But the other thing though is devs who do not want to share there work, the dev who asked for permission and got knocked back should respect the other dev's decision. like i said at my post above it goes both ways. we can share but we can also not share as well....it is a difficult scenario really...but kanging and not getting permission is wrong
Goku80 said:
oh trust me it happens in other forums as well. sometimes xda favors those who they want to favor and do not pay any attention to the other party and they side with those who they want to side with..it looks like politics sometimes and whoever is the topdog here should re-valuate the way the mods run the show here.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats an other part of the discussion...
Who has the best friends here at XDA will win...
And those discussions are behind close doors.. As it would be better to show the "community" how they come to a decision.
And my post did not come out off the blue, but got me thinking on thinks that happend somewhere this week...
and made me a bit mad and disappointed @ xda
And I see a lot of people pushing the "thanks" button.. but I would like them to reply even more (hint xda staff )
DutchDanny said:
Thats an other part of the discussion...
Who has the best friends here at XDA will win...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ahh mate that is so true. but not going to get into that. things should stay private specially between devs and mods. but sometimes us normal members like me would like to know what goes on though cause at the end of the day all this pickering effects the users of the roms cause we are the ones who miss out on class roms...so sometimes acting like kids is not always the best way to go about.
Goku80 said:
ahh mate that is so true. but not going to get into that. things should stay private specially between devs and mods. but sometimes us normal members like me would like to know what goes on though cause at the end of the day all this pickering effects the users of the roms cause we are the ones who miss out on class roms...so sometimes acting like kids is not always the best way to go about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would not wanna see the whole discussion, but they could publish the outcome in the thread(s) involved. So the community knows what happend and why.
And if all devs did share, the users would have even more choice to pick from.
And if all devs did share, the hack/tweak would only get better/bigger.
Here is my view on it.... we all agree that the spirit of XDA is about sharing. So if a certain person has spent many hours on programming/creating something and refuses to share it... why post it on XDA in the first place. I just don't get it, because in my eyes that's something small children do when one has something better than the others and refuses to share.
If you want to go 'look at what I've done, isn't it good, aren't I good?' And then go 'but you can't use it, because if you do I'm going to throw a tantrum...' Don't post it on XDA... somewhere, where the main rule is about sharing what you've done.
Just my opinion
Sent from my GT-N7000 using xda premium
One of the main reason why I choose android is because of the openess of it. The reason why I'm in XDA is because of some great devs/hackers who spend time creating something wonderful and share it with the community without expecting anything in return. I really hope it stays that way.
DutchDanny said:
I would not wanna see the whole discussion, but they could publish the outcome in the thread(s) involved. So the community knows what happend and why.
And if all devs did share, the users would have even more choice to pick from.
And if all devs did share, the hack/tweak would only get better/bigger.
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DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you (at least in the part of permissions). If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
jotha said:
DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you. If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
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I know you and me never saw eye to eye but you could not have put it any better. Well written post.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
I have to agree with the the majority so far, it does seem against the open source culture in which XDA tries to foster.
It does seem with the increase in "kanging" it creates a conundrum for Mods & Admins as to how to manage this, Do we enforce sharing? Do we try to create our own sort of "patent" system in which certain things must be shared under a so called "fair" use and other items such as themes for example be left under the current system we have as present?
We need to find a consensus amongst us as a community with a right way to proceed with this maybe danny could add a poll this to garner opinion on weather people would like to keep the current system or change it to get some sort of indication on weather the current system is working or not.
jotha said:
DutchDanny, I know what happened this week, and believe me: I feel for you. If you try to ask some devs for permission to use their work, you don't get any answers, if you don't, they cry murder and let xda infract you. That can't be right in the long run. I've been around some years and xda was always about using other peoples work and build upon it (be it companies' work like HTC or Google, or other devs' work). But unfortunately that has changed in the last year or so. I have no problem with the fact that devs want to know who uses their work and for what and that a dev demands being credited for the use of his work. But I have a problem with the fact that some devs/themers/modders can prohibit the use of their work for others. When they claim copyright on that work, they should be reminded that they broke the copyright of numerous other ppl by simply creating their work.
So in my humble opinion, xda MUST change it's sharing policy.
My suggestion: People that want to use the official titles of recognized developers or themers should officially put all work they release on xda into public domain from the moment they release it (under the condition of being credited for it by everybody who uses it). Being RD or RT also includes some rules for conduct, and that sharing policy should be a part of that.
just my 2ct.
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I think you have a real good point there.
All that is released on XDA is under sharing policy.
And not to be claimed.
Credits are the least we could do...
btw: noting happend to me, but to members close to me.. But thanks
af974 said:
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
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Please take this in consideration, cause this is what made me mad on xda for the decission it made this week, and what made me start this open discussion.
af974 said:
In part i agree but in part nope.
The real fault is by people that have no respect for other people or developers, take this little example:
User A make a rom, some smali changes, some scripts, some apps, a good room in the end.
It comes user B and say " uhm, nice rom but if i'll delete these 2 apk from it then it will be perfect"
So it do that, make thread and people enjoy his work claiming that his rom is better then user A.....
And?? Where is Development? No way, 7zip isn't a tool that can be said for development and the site name is pretty clear, it is not XDAKangers or XDA-ctrl&C/ctrl&V.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for sharing but some people think that sharing means just grab it and use it and the real problem aren't the mods but n00bs that don't know what is the respect for other developers.......that's whay so many thread are closed by mods.
Different story is when a Recognized Developer refuse to give permissions to use his work to another RD or another well know senior member, this should be changed.
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Click to collapse
Very well said, but to stay in your example, couldn't it be that the rom WITHOUT the two apk's is really "better" (in the sense of "more popular") than the original? And as long as the creator of that second version stats in his OP the he took the complete work of dev 1 and streamlined it, shouldn't that be enough?
You are absolutely right. The problem really is that some (more and more) guys lack that deserved respect for developers and just don't credit the source, thus pi... off the creator and making him "close" the source, thus restraining true development (if only by removing two apk ). The way to ensure a "fair use" should be discussed and finally fixed. Staying with the situation we have now, that ppl can keep others from using their bits more or less deliberately, maybe just because they don't like their "nose", can't be right. If there are good reasons (history of kanging or whatever), thats something else again.
I'm very sorry, cause I'm not a real dev or themer or contributor, just a young Andoid user and member who's integrated one team after pass sometime to found or help others xda members.
Why I came here on xda site. I'm french, my english is average, but some french forums bored me, that's why I came here, for all that @danny, @russ try to explain in this thread.
And since a couple of time, all of this spirit is gone. For what ?
Money, glory, respect...maybe? But I think not for the last term.
I am here because I want to share and help other members.
But also and because the eco-system Android allows this exchange and to move forward development for the pleasure of all.
Then stop, stop theses local wars and let yours feets on earth.
If you want to make some money, don't diffuse your codes, I think it's not necessary to stay here. Open your site and nobody will be able to take your codes.
Thanks for your listening
Here are my feelings on it.
What has angered me with certain attitudes towards sharing in xda recently, is that it seems to have been initially offered, then retracted. We are given a taste, then told "no more, go make your own". Was the plan to hook us like junkies, then we'd all only have one place to run to for our "fix"? Then when we are all hooked, the price goes up? No more freedom. Only one choice. Is that how you should gain followers on xda? I think we've been treated like guinea pigs then discarded. Permission is withdrawn, refused, then terms like "respect" get banded about. Don't treat us like this.
So we break free. Start from fresh. We are off the hook. Clean. But someone doesn't like us off the hook, pushing our own "product" and, worried about some false notion of competition or turf invasion, goes to lengths to make sure there is only one messiah.
Except this isn't a competition. We are not rivals in different factions or tribes or gangs depending on what Rom we choose to get involved with. We should not be in it for glory, or to be the "Big Dog" whose Rom is forbidden fruit to be envied by those who choose to wear the wrong colors. We are not looking to amass the biggest army as a mark of our success.
Why has this gotten this far? Without getting bogged down in the legalities of open source and gpl, I just think some people in high places need to take a step back. Stop and think. Where do you draw the line between keeping healthy community, encouraging development, and simply looking after your "homies"?
I feel this line is currently drawn in the wrong place. And it didn't use to be.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
There does need to be a clear consensus and line drawn, so we can all ensure that the rules are clear and followed.
That being said; I, like many agree but also disagree.
Sharing here is much like in a store; you as a consumer have a choice. Now albeit here we do not pay for your 'goods' we do still take certain risks(warranty's etc). Now, XDA is also about offering choice so if the sharing policy extends to the point that we can take everything then what choice will be left. Much like you see everywhere on XDA choice is being eliminated everywhere as more builds are essentially the same but for a few wallpapers and tweaks in the build.prop which quite frankly ruins the whole point of having choice and there being more than one available.
Fair enough if someone has spent hours/days/weeks making something and shares it here but that shouldn't automatically then mean that every other 'dev' can bang it in theirs. All they have to do it ctrl+c, ctrl+v the thing after all your hard spent effort on it. The developer should be allowed to be proud of their work and it not to be diluted with it being everywhere. Yes I think we should help, share and combine efforts but if you have improved something and don't wish to share it then fair enough there is no law to state you have to and should someone effectively plagiarise your work then there should be punishments.
If I ask someone for something I would like and they say no, then I go get it myself or do without. I don't just take it anyway, that's what babies do when they don't understand the laws of society which even apply when you are online.
That's my input.