Develop Bugs

Excactly how likely IS a custom rom for the HD2?

Windows mobile phone series 7...
So we went trought the weeks, we heard all the talk, we saw all the pretty images and videos, we really wanted it... and now almost everyone hates is...
however, 1 thing i heard people say OVER and OVER again on sites like pocketnow.com engadget.com ang gizmodo.com is: Dont worry, XDA will have a custom rom for the HD2 in days when its out!!
I always found that strange to hear, i mean the android development has been underway for over a year now and just recently has netripper made some breaktroughs..
so (i think you know what i'm getting at..) will this really be as easy as everyone claims? Isnt it a whole new system, build from the ground up? what are your opinions

My guess is that the HD2 is likely HTCs dev platform for wp7. If that's true I think we'll see it eventually.

if a development rom exists highly likely
if there's not then it may not be possible for the hd2 handset...I would prefer to think there is a development rom

one crazy russian people need only 10hour for rip the blue ray disc... after first time sony relase... and sony say its imposible to rip or rewrite
i think... wm7 come to hd2 but unoficial version... its best phone ever... any lg and samsung canot be better than htc hd2...

domineus said:
if a development rom exists highly likely
if there's not then it may not be possible for the hd2 handset...I would prefer to think there is a development rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what do you mean with development rom? isnt there already 1 posted in the windows 7 forum (1 page back?)
or do you mean something else?

emulated rom is for x86 processors
a developer rom means one that is made for the htc touch hd 2

but that probably wont happen right?

from what i've read, they are indeed trying to do something about the emulator dump, anything. but mainly waiting, for an actual rom.

I guess it's all down to drivers and how similar WinPhoS is to 6.5.x. I mean if it's practically the same, maybe the 6.5.x Hardware drivers will work with a bit of tweaking.
Logicalstep

I think it's possible, It seems the man in the video is using an hd2 phone - http://www.istartedsomething.com/20100318/new-windows-phone-7-series-promo-from-mix10/

lagbaja said:
I think it's possible, It seems the man in the video is using an hd2 phone - http://www.istartedsomething.com/20100318/new-windows-phone-7-series-promo-from-mix10/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh?? I never saw that video thats crazy, what the hell were they thinking? also, didnt htc tell us like a year ago that we WOULD get the upgrade..
anyways, dont really wanna go off track here, there are already 34,600 threads on the HD2 not getting the upgrade, i want this one to be about how likely a custom rom would be

Here's a snapshot..

Logicalstep said:
I guess it's all down to drivers and how similar WinPhoS is to 6.5.x. I mean if it's practically the same, maybe the 6.5.x Hardware drivers will work with a bit of tweaking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We already know that the driver architecture has changed completely.
ragdoll20 said:
Huh?? I never saw that video thats crazy, what the hell were they thinking? also, didnt htc tell us like a year ago that we WOULD get the upgrade..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They definitely did not.
ragdoll20 said:
anyways, dont really wanna go off track here, there are already 34,600 threads on the HD2 not getting the upgrade, i want this one to be about how likely a custom rom would be
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really does all come down to the question of whether or not there is a working version of WP7S running on an HD2 somewhere already; and such a thing must have been created with a great deal of input from Microsoft. If this exists, and it leaks, then that might be used as the basis for a custom ROM. If it doesn't exist, or it doesn't leak, it's not going to happen.
The problem, as already alluded to, is drivers: the only possible source of device drivers for a WP7S custom ROM is Microsoft - they need to have specifically written drivers for HD2 hardware.
Even if such a thing does leak in somewhat unfinished form, there are still some question-marks. For example, unless it allows the HD2 to treat an installed SD card as if it were built-in flash memory, you would be limited to just half a gigabyte of storage space for everything - photos, videos, apps, the lot. (Real WP7S phones won't use SD cards at all, they will only have built-in memory.)

Shasarak said:
We already know that the driver architecture has changed completely.
They definitely did not.
It really does all come down to the question of whether or not there is a working version of WP7S running on an HD2 somewhere already; and such a thing must have been created with a great deal of input from Microsoft. If this exists, and it leaks, then that might be used as the basis for a custom ROM. If it doesn't exist, or it doesn't leak, it's not going to happen.
The problem, as already alluded to, is drivers: the only possible source of device drivers for a WP7S custom ROM is Microsoft - they need to have specifically written drivers for HD2 hardware.
Even if such a thing does leak in somewhat unfinished form, there are still some question-marks. For example, unless it allows the HD2 to treat an installed SD card as if it were built-in flash memory, you would be limited to just half a gigabyte of storage space for everything - photos, videos, apps, the lot. (Real WP7S phones won't use SD cards at all, they will only have built-in memory.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very good point. And half a gigabyte for everything is really, really not enough.
This is why I never look at custom ROMs and stuff like that. Even if somebody gets 7 Series working on the HD2 (or Android), it will not be a good experience. If the HD2 was not meant for 7 Series, you should not try to change it's fate (or whatever haha). If you want 7 Series: get a 7 Series device. If you want Android: get an Android device.
Btw, that movie somebody posted of the man with the HD2 running 7 Series: beautiful! I knew it would look incredible... so so bad, that it is not getting that upgrade. But hey, I am looking forward to the HTC Desire

Not to nitpick but the emulator has shown that there is SD card support, just artificially disabled (likely.) If we were to get a dev ROM, I'd imagine it would had support included for that very reason (512 just aint enough!)
Again, unlikely though.

Also. MS might delibertaly put swomething in the code to make sure it will not work with the HD2.
As for the video. Yes they are using a HD2, but this doesn't mean that it was running WP7s. They could easily have overlayed the image of the OS ontop of the original video in post-production. Otherwise did you also think that the screens float in the air above the phone too? It does in the video.

Shasarak said:
We already know that the driver architecture has changed completely.
They definitely did not.
It really does all come down to the question of whether or not there is a working version of WP7S running on an HD2 somewhere already; and such a thing must have been created with a great deal of input from Microsoft. If this exists, and it leaks, then that might be used as the basis for a custom ROM. If it doesn't exist, or it doesn't leak, it's not going to happen.
The problem, as already alluded to, is drivers: the only possible source of device drivers for a WP7S custom ROM is Microsoft - they need to have specifically written drivers for HD2 hardware.
Even if such a thing does leak in somewhat unfinished form, there are still some question-marks. For example, unless it allows the HD2 to treat an installed SD card as if it were built-in flash memory, you would be limited to just half a gigabyte of storage space for everything - photos, videos, apps, the lot. (Real WP7S phones won't use SD cards at all, they will only have built-in memory.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite true, Microsoft have stated (see engadget) that although the OS will still support SD cards (albeit internal), they're restricting hardware makers to put the SD cards in the device to prevent users swapping them out, if one was to disassemble their device and swap the SD card, then they should lose all their data however, they could get it all back from "the cloud".

i thinks its very likely, remember years back when i had htc magician and scrapping for wm 6.1 in it, everybody says that impossible so i had to buy hermes and dang when i rest magian and use hermes, godlike collatula make wm 6.1 run on magician
so, i still believe leo can run WM7

#1 Windows Phone 7 sucks. It's actually a downgrade from WM6.5.
#2 Phone 7 should technically work on HD2, so long as someone makes a rom with it.
#3 Hope Android development progresses really fast for HD2.

Alize said:
Not quite true, Microsoft have stated (see engadget) that although the OS will still support SD cards (albeit internal), they're restricting hardware makers to put the SD cards in the device to prevent users swapping them out, if one was to disassemble their device and swap the SD card, then they should lose all their data however, they could get it all back from "the cloud".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure that Microsoft did actually say that. What they said was along the lines of "WP7S won't support a removable memory card"; Engadget pounced on the word "removable" and the rest was based purely on speculation.

[Q] WP7: no desktop-like experience anymore ?? Where to go then ??

I use WM6.5 because it gives me the most desktop-like experience:
I can explore files and folders without limits
I can edit *.sys *.bat *.txt *.whatever files
I can use context menus (send to, cut copy paste, zip, mail, etc)
I can directly copy/download/use my desktop files (without the need for a sync software or any kind of permissions)
I can customize and rearange my desktop at will
I can find tons of free (or cheap) software everywhere
I can edit and tweak some DLLs
etc...
I have not tested WP7 personaly, but it seems like it is going to loose all of these desktop-like features in favour of a more closed, iPhone-clone experience.
AM I WRONG ???
I was SO concerned I just tested a new Android 2.2 phone.
At a first glance and to my surprise, the UI was boring and nearly non-customizable, there wasn't even a simple FILE EXPLORER preinstalled on it !!
Comming from WM6.5, Android made me feel like a caged bird...
Or am I mssing something ??
If WP7 is going in another direction, then, which other options do I have for a desktop-like pocket PC ??
A viliv N5 ??

I learned from an early age that sometimes things change and I have to adapt to new methods of doing things. But I remembered when I went from DOS 6.22 to Windows 95. I didn't have as much control through autoexec.bat and config.sys. I felt like I was losing a whole world. But I learned that there were new ways of doing things, and I had to adapt to the new paradigm shift that was taking place. I was around 13 at the time, so I didn't really understand it as much as I do today.
In the mobile space, things are moving away from being a mobile desktop and more of a window into certain services. You'll have to learn how to customize those devices to get them to fulfill your use case, and it won't be the same as the previous generation.

You are not right. The whole world still using Windows XP despite of titanic efforts of MS to clap us Vista. Windows 7 is slightly better but still XP is the best one. Same will happen with WP7. We will still use 6.5 and develop programs for it as it will be the better OS. I will not be surprised if I see 6.5 port for HD3 With so much power WM6.5 will work like charm on HD3.

gom99 said:
But I remembered when I went from DOS 6.22 to Windows 95. I didn't have as much control through autoexec.bat and config.sys. I felt like I was losing a whole world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sound like you never used DOS 6.22 and Win95... This statement is comical and if you weren't a retard accomplishing most of the same tasks in Windows were trivial. The only thing you couldn't load though those files in Windows 95 was EMM386.
Also, who went from DOS straight to Win95? Where were you from 91 to 95, sleeping?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

**** DOS and Win95. Windows NT 3.5 was where it's at!
Yeah, I actually ran it and everything NT beyond it. **** Win9x 4 lyfe.

gtrab said:
I use WM6.5 because it gives me the most desktop-like experience:
I can explore files and folders without limits
I can edit *.sys *.bat *.txt *.whatever files
I can use context menus (send to, cut copy paste, zip, mail, etc)
I can directly copy/download/use my desktop files (without the need for a sync software or any kind of permissions)
I can customize and rearange my desktop at will
I can find tons of free (or cheap) software everywhere
I can edit and tweak some DLLs
etc...
I have not tested WP7 personaly, but it seems like it is going to loose all of these desktop-like features in favour of a more closed, iPhone-clone experience.
AM I WRONG ???
I was SO concerned I just tested a new Android 2.2 phone.
At a first glance and to my surprise, the UI was boring and nearly non-customizable, there wasn't even a simple FILE EXPLORER preinstalled on it !!
Comming from WM6.5, Android made me feel like a caged bird...
Or am I mssing something ??
If WP7 is going in another direction, then, which other options do I have for a desktop-like pocket PC ??
A viliv N5 ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's to be seen in what way WP7 will develop.
I have identical concerns.
As for Android 2.2, it actually has almost everything WM6.5 has.
If not preinstalled, it's on app store. Task managers, file managers....
I just really don't like Android feel and look.
I stay with WM 6.5 for some time too.

Maemo, maybe?

So... there are no current real options to my concerns
Well, you may be right: I may have to "adapt" (evolve) and quit my WM6.5 cooking/tweaking freedom ...or go find a good phone software for a Viliv N5
I am seriously considering the N5 possibility
Lets see what happens when WP7 comes out

I am amazed how people in this forum are not happy with the new direction WP7 is taking... Let me explain why.
While I love doing everything the OP has stated, I love doing it on my desktop/laptop because I find a use for it. I feel the need to customize and tweak the OS to fill my needs for some things, ie: task automation, background activites without me having to do anything, skins and so on and so forth.
While I did this on my TP2 as well, i slowly get bored of this for two reasons: 1°) the phone will never have the kind of power to do all of this without slowing in day to day use, which my TP2 does and my Diamond before that, and 2°) The phone is designed for a) call/text, b) access all my services seamlessly (Zune and Windows Live are my first priorities).
In 2010, people want access to services. They don't want to go into a registry. I mean, wtf should i go and edit something in HEX, or DWord or whatever in 2010? To gain something that will make my system unstable? No, users want seemless services, accessible from everywhere, and that is something that WP7 provides.
I feel that, if I have to do some editing of the OS, then I shouldn't have to spend 600 euros and the phone. At that price, the phone is supposed to have a top notch performance, which, when you half bake a OS just like WM 6.x, is not present.
Consumers need a phone that works. And the iPhone-clone as everyone here not open minded enough to see that calls it is a great opportunity for those who like the concept of the iPhone but do not like the Phone or the company itself.
WP7 is a paradigm shift. And as Kuhn said, the world needs paradigm shifts in order to progress. This is one of these shifts that the iPhone started, the Android continued and that WP7 will end.
It's a great era for the consumer. Open your mind.

NoWorthWhile said:
I am amazed how people in this forum are not happy with the new direction WP7 is taking... Let me explain why.
While I love doing everything the OP has stated, I love doing it on my desktop/laptop because I find a use for it. I feel the need to customize and tweak the OS to fill my needs for some things, ie: task automation, background activites without me having to do anything, skins and so on and so forth.
While I did this on my TP2 as well, i slowly get bored of this for two reasons: 1°) the phone will never have the kind of power to do all of this without slowing in day to day use, which my TP2 does and my Diamond before that, and 2°) The phone is designed for a) call/text, b) access all my services seamlessly (Zune and Windows Live are my first priorities).
In 2010, people want access to services. They don't want to go into a registry. I mean, wtf should i go and edit something in HEX, or DWord or whatever in 2010? To gain something that will make my system unstable? No, users want seemless services, accessible from everywhere, and that is something that WP7 provides.
I feel that, if I have to do some editing of the OS, then I shouldn't have to spend 600 euros and the phone. At that price, the phone is supposed to have a top notch performance, which, when you half bake a OS just like WM 6.x, is not present.
Consumers need a phone that works. And the iPhone-clone as everyone here not open minded enough to see that calls it is a great opportunity for those who like the concept of the iPhone but do not like the Phone or the company itself.
WP7 is a paradigm shift. And as Kuhn said, the world needs paradigm shifts in order to progress. This is one of these shifts that the iPhone started, the Android continued and that WP7 will end.
It's a great era for the consumer. Open your mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I say - it's bull****. Complete.
I agree the OS has to work, sure. That's why developers should work hard to bring the possibilites to the user, not cut them because it's difficult.
I agree that I should not be forced to tweak any registry when I don't need to and I should be able to seamlessly use a device without bigger effort.
However I disagree with making people idiots.
And why the hell you tell me what I should do with the device?
Wake up. Pocket devices are the future. I don't see a ****ing reason why after 10 years of development suddenly many options are OUT. There's no reason to take away the features just because of UI change.
But the biggest bull**** you say is with "it just works"...
If I can compose an email, but cannot add many different attachements to it because of system limitation, IT DOESN'T ****ING WORK at all!!!
It doesn't "just works". It does things Microsoft imagined I want to do, instead of leaving me more options. There are many simple task which simply "it just doesn't work"

doministry said:
And I say - it's bull****. Complete.
I agree the OS has to work, sure. That's why developers should work hard to bring the possibilites to the user, not cut them because it's difficult.
I agree that I should not be forced to tweak any registry when I don't need to and I should be able to seamlessly use a device without bigger effort.
However I disagree with making people idiots.
And why the hell you tell me what I should do with the device?
Wake up. Pocket devices are the future. I don't see a ****ing reason why after 10 years of development suddenly many options are OUT. There's no reason to take away the features just because of UI change.
But the biggest bull**** you say is with "it just works"...
If I can compose an email, but cannot add many different attachements to it because of system limitation, IT DOESN'T ****ING WORK at all!!!
It doesn't "just works". It does things Microsoft imagined I want to do, instead of leaving me more options. There are many simple task which simply "it just doesn't work"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in NO way trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your device. I'm merely asking you what the hell you are doing with a small size device that requires THAT amount of customisation/tweaking.
Yes, it does just work. If you need to write a freaking novel on your phone, then sorry, but something's wrong in your head.
Tell me what do you want that WP7 can't do? Heavy text editing? You've got your PC for that. A phone is a phone, NOT a pc. What you need is a Tablet/Slate with Data service.

NoWorthWhile said:
I am in NO way trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your device. I'm merely asking you what the hell you are doing with a small size device that requires THAT amount of customisation/tweaking.
Yes, it does just work. If you need to write a freaking novel on your phone, then sorry, but something's wrong in your head.
Tell me what do you want that WP7 can't do? Heavy text editing? You've got your PC for that. A phone is a phone, NOT a pc. What you need is a Tablet/Slate with Data service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opinions like that are the most destructive **** in this world.
There's rather something wrong in your head, and you exactly try to judge what I should do with my device - again. And you tell me what I need. Bravo.
Maybe you don't have need to do much with your phone but that's your choice.
People use devices in extensive way for decade, wake up. Why the hell should I be like you?!
I was able to do everything I want last 10 years, so I just want to continue like that.

doministry said:
Opinions like that are the most destructive **** in this world.
There's rather something wrong in your head, and you exactly try to judge what I should do with my device - again. And you tell me what I need. Bravo.
Maybe you don't have need to do much with your phone but that's your choice.
People use devices in extensive way for decade, wake up. Why the hell should I be like you?!
I was able to do everything I want last 10 years, so I just want to continue like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In what way is that destructive? Change is good, and in this case, you've also got the choice of what to buy (or not buy). You seem unhappy with WP7 for reasons of your own, and I respect that, but what IS destructive is what you are doing right now: denying evolution.
Let me give you one example:
http://www.ted.com/talks/john_under...urce=direct-on.ted.com&utm_content=site-basic
It's still far away in the future, but I'm guessing (guessing, not stating) that it wont likely be as customizable as Windows 7, or say, XP. Will THAT be a bad thing? It WILL eventually change the way we interact with PCs. No more folders, no more registrys, no more freaking .sys .bat. dll files, but instead, content. Videos, Music, Documents, Websites, and so on so forth. Is THAT a bad thing?
I am in no way telling you to be like me, that's the point of humans, we are all different. But I can twist the matter in any way possible, for me, my cellphone is a CONSUMPTION device. Not a device that is meant for creation. And that is limited by the physical form factor of the device. No OS, good or bad, old or new will ever be able to achieve the level of usability you seek to achieve. If WM 6.x seems the choice for you, then stick with it.

OK, after reading every comment, well...
You talk "smart phone"
I dreaam "pocket PC" (read it again: a PC that fits in my pocket)
If I "just" wanted a smart phone that really works, I would have got the iPhone ages ago, but I AM DIFFERENT, I am not the standard joe looking for a phone that makes phones calls and can tweet, NO !!
I need to carry my PC on my pocket (or at least a mirror of my PC) !!
But I am learnig that is NOT happening... Santa didn't hear my WP7 wishes...
Then,
May HTML5 save us from "mobile versions" of web pages
and May Moore's Law put a full Win7 PC on my pocket in the near future !!
PS: DO YOU guys really think omitting cut/paste from their new mobile OS is really EVOLUTION ??
Isn't it going BACKWARDS ??
Tech Inquisition ?? (stick with what we offer you, don't dream different things)
What's next ??
Will I have to pray a savior god and pay a monthly portion of my incomes for my phone too ??

Now I get what you really want. Then, by all means, I apologize.
But, yeah, as I already told you, the closest thing to what you want is either Winmo 6.5, or a 7 inch Archos with Win7 on it...
To answer to your PS: Yes, omitting copy/paste and multitasking is a mistake, but I trust MS to bring it along down the road someday. As I rarely ever use copy/paste I don't really care, but I care most about Multitasking.
And my own PS: I'm not an average Joe either, I always hate the iPhone not for the device itself, but for the ecosystem behind it, because let's face it, that's where the pocket devices are headed to: the center of an ecosystem.
EDIT:
gtrab said:
Will I have to pray a savior god and pay a monthly portion of my incomes for my phone too ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It already happened: the god is Steve Jobs, and you pay a Data Plan every month [Humour]
Also, I realize I answered to the wrong person xD

gtrab said:
If I "just" wanted a smart phone that really works, I would have got the iPhone ages ago, but I AM DIFFERENT, I am not the standard joe looking for a phone that makes phones calls and can tweet, NO !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone can do much more than that. As I took a temporary trip to the dark side and use an iPhone now I want WP7 more and more each day because MS seem to tackle some of the most annoying problems with this device - WP7 has a much better mail client, a much more useful calendar and non-intrusive notifications, things that piss me off every day on the iPhone. The hadware Back button is also sorely missing on Jesus Phone.

N8ter said:
You sound like you never used DOS 6.22 and Win95... This statement is comical and if you weren't a retard accomplishing most of the same tasks in Windows were trivial. The only thing you couldn't load though those files in Windows 95 was EMM386.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MSDOS was much less arcane than Windows 95 ie it was fairly easy to see and understand what was being loaded at startup. That's what I was referring to.
N8ter said:
Also, who went from DOS straight to Win95? Where were you from 91 to 95, sleeping?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get what you mean by this...wasn't win95 the integration of MSDOS & Windows Line? What was I supposed to be using? Windows 3.1 more of a GUI on top of DOS. I only loaded windows if I wanted to run a program in windows.

NoWorthWhile said:
In what way is that destructive? Change is good, and in this case, you've also got the choice of what to buy (or not buy). You seem unhappy with WP7 for reasons of your own, and I respect that, but what IS destructive is what you are doing right now: denying evolution.
Let me give you one example:
http://www.ted.com/talks/john_under...urce=direct-on.ted.com&utm_content=site-basic
It's still far away in the future, but I'm guessing (guessing, not stating) that it wont likely be as customizable as Windows 7, or say, XP. Will THAT be a bad thing? It WILL eventually change the way we interact with PCs. No more folders, no more registrys, no more freaking .sys .bat. dll files, but instead, content. Videos, Music, Documents, Websites, and so on so forth. Is THAT a bad thing?
I am in no way telling you to be like me, that's the point of humans, we are all different. But I can twist the matter in any way possible, for me, my cellphone is a CONSUMPTION device. Not a device that is meant for creation. And that is limited by the physical form factor of the device. No OS, good or bad, old or new will ever be able to achieve the level of usability you seek to achieve. If WM 6.x seems the choice for you, then stick with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, evolution! I love evolution!
That's why WP7 UI paradigm appeals to me!
That's why after many years bricky phones with phonebook and tiny monochromatic screens were replaced by multi functionality devices
with colour touchscreens, cameras and also many COMPUTER functions!
With operating systems inside! Why? Do give MORE functionality!!!!
Evolution means MORE and BETTER.
If you take away functionality for UCLEAR reasons it's a step back!
They do it for the policy. Removing normal file access is rubbish and limiting the user
without any real functionality reasons.
By the way I was never limited by the phone's form factor.
And instead of dragging everywhere ****ing laptop I have all in my pocket, ready!
And your arguments are not credible for me.
And Apple were saying the same, just to bring everything BACK, making big Bang! with it.
You say it's just a phone yet all WP7 devices actually CONTAIN all the applications which make it almost pocket PC. Just apps itself are limited.
Bull****. It's just a policy.

So, in your opinion, what is the reason for this policy? Insanity? Uncontrollable desire to copy everything Apple does, as some people love to suggest? Or maybe there is something they found worth considering?

vangrieg said:
So, in your opinion, what is the reason for this policy? Insanity? Uncontrollable desire to copy everything Apple does, as some people love to suggest? Or maybe there is something they found worth considering?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Policy?
Keep their OS locked so less people have any access to it?
Make a devices unified in UI so they reach a brand feel on the phones regardless of producer?
Control the stability in processes which are much harder to control?
Prevent unauthorized copying?
Differentiate phone and PC so the user is somehow forced to have both devices?
I could probably find more...
As for Apple: well, no - blind copying no. But copying some things definitely yes.
Of course they have many innovative ideas and I think it has big chance, considering it is really modern and offers great new UI paradigm.

[Q] SD card oganization/clean-up

I've been kind of baffled at how terribly Android handles the file organization on SD cards. It seems totally crazy to me that it dumps everything into the root of the sd card, instead of putting all of the apps, folders, and temp files into a single parent folder (/sdcard/android/* for example). There has to be some way to deal with this, especially considering that Android OS it's a biproduct of a company who's entire business model is built around efficiency and streamlining information.
So my question is this: does anyone have any idea how to deal with this? I've done some Googling but haven't really found much.
Thanks in advance!
(I'm rooted and running MIUI 12.11 on an ADR6300.)
*** er, organization ***

...
I too have wondered the same thing. The best thing I have found to do is reformat it and start from scratch. A lot of different programs seem to make their own folders. Coming from windows mobile where everything is organized via things like "programs files" sucks but id definenlty take android over all

agreed. i came from ios jailbreak world - even there things are more organized. best way to liken this is:
iphone = lexus - user friendly, everything works but it wont give you great thrills. even if you jailbreak it, virtually impossible to brick. there is always a way out.
android = mercedes - designed by engineers for engineers, a whole lotta fun if you know what you are doing but extremely inelegant UI or organization inside the guts. you can hurt yourself bad if you make a mistake i.e. brick it.

I like it.. Good analogy.
khanam said:
agreed. i came from ios jailbreak world - even there things are more organized. best way to liken this is:
iphone = lexus - user friendly, everything works but it wont give you great thrills. even if you jailbreak it, virtually impossible to brick. there is always a way out.
android = mercedes - designed by engineers for engineers, a whole lotta fun if you know what you are doing but extremely inelegant UI or organization inside the guts. you can hurt yourself bad if you make a mistake i.e. brick it.
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Click to collapse
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

SR3TLAW said:
I too have wondered the same thing. The best thing I have found to do is reformat it and start from scratch. A lot of different programs seem to make their own folders. Coming from windows mobile where everything is organized via things like "programs files" sucks but id definenlty take android over all
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Click to collapse
Reformatting? What kind of stuff sites that erase? I myself have been noticing the sd card is a bit messy, but it seems like reformatting would erase app data that us kinda important.
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khanam said:
iphone = lexus - user friendly, everything works but it wont give you great thrills. even if you jailbreak it, virtually impossible to brick. there is always a way out.
android = mercedes - designed by engineers for engineers, a whole lotta fun if you know what you are doing but extremely inelegant UI or organization inside the guts. you can hurt yourself bad if you make a mistake i.e. brick it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good analogy indeed.
That's kind of a bust though. I came from ios jailbreaking as well, and I had high hopes for a more cognitive file system from Android. Needless to say, I was more than let down.
I still feel like there has to be a setting or string of settings somewhere (at least on a binary level) that could be changed to send everything to mnt/sdcard/Android instead of just mnt/sdcard. Something has to tell it where the sd location is.

SR3TLAW said:
I like it.. Good analogy.
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Click to collapse
rvrzl said:
Good analogy indeed.
That's kind of a bust though. I came from ios jailbreaking as well, and I had high hopes for a more cognitive file system from Android. Needless to say, I was more than let down.
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Click to collapse
thanks guys! the people on these forums can be quite rabid about android and i was worried I might be told off. The truth is that despite the more chaotic way things happen in android I still prefer it to iOS. There is certainly more tinkering to be done in android and certainly a bigger unofficial dev community who can tweak it. However, one of my observations is that most android dev work here tends to be a lot more individualistic expressions (and funnily most of them are still quite similar) rather than concerted teamwork of the iphone dev team type barring a few exceptions - MIUI, cyanogen come to mind.
I wish the devs would collaborate with each other a lot more than they do. then there could be specialization on various aspects and we would truly see the advantages of open source code.

I feel all of y'all. It really is the lesser of two evils; the file system. Give a little, get a little.
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SethAC said:
Reformatting? What kind of stuff sites that erase? I myself have been noticing the sd card is a bit messy, but it seems like reformatting would erase app data that us kinda important.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've formatted my SD card before without any dire consequences. As soon as I put the completely empty card back in that whole "preparing SD Card" message appears, and you get the typical android folders back in there. I did that because I've wiped my phone when flashing a new ROM and there were app folders on there for apps that I never put back on the phone. It was just part of my slight neurosis towards organization.

what I do is just ignore the root of the sdcard as much as possible. I have a directory in the root named my name( like "users/username") and I use astro and make that the default location. I have music, videos... folders there and that is where I keep all my stuff.
You could probably make symlinks from there out to your picture and download folders and never really have to leave it to get your stuff?

Smart solution. Thanks!!
Hi there!
I know this is an old thread but it just helped me, so I wanted to say thanks ^__^
Kebabdylan said:
what I do is just ignore the root of the sdcard as much as possible. I have a directory in the root named my name( like "users/username") and I use astro and make that the default location. I have music, videos... folders there and that is where I keep all my stuff.
You could probably make symlinks from there out to your picture and download folders and never really have to leave it to get your stuff?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kebabdylan, smart idea. I just did it. Thanks a lot
khanam said:
agreed. i came from ios jailbreak world - even there things are more organized. best way to liken this is:
iphone = lexus - user friendly, everything works but it wont give you great thrills. even if you jailbreak it, virtually impossible to brick. there is always a way out.
android = mercedes - designed by engineers for engineers, a whole lotta fun if you know what you are doing but extremely inelegant UI or organization inside the guts. you can hurt yourself bad if you make a mistake i.e. brick it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Loved your analogies khanam
This is my first entry on xda, I've been using the forums for ages but never took the step to register since I'm just an amateur developer.
Please don't be rough at me! I'm a noob!

Interest in hacking the kin

I think that we really need to build some interest in hacking this kin phone. It appears that there are very few who post but there are a lot more viewing. I decided to create this poll so that maybe we can show it to some skilled mobile hackers letting them know that this phone is not dead and has amazing potential. I encourage everyone who reads this to vote in the poll. without every single person showing interest we may never get anywhere. So don't just read this but sign up and vote. Show your support!!! Lets generate some interest. Vote now and then go spread the word.

I'm interested in seeing the phone get hacked so that all its minor annoyances can be fixed but:
1. do not have the kin twom phone (eyeing to get one)
2. suck at programming
I tend not to post because I am letting the experts (who have the phone and skills to hack the phone) post their progress and such.
I been preying/stalking former Kin phone developers out on LinkedIn as johnkussack suggested but no one has replied back to add me as a contact so that I could send them private msgs asking for their help.

Maybe if we could also start calling Microsoft/Sharp/Verizon. If we have enough interest maybe we could persuade them. Maybe one of us could just get lucky with talking to a "certain" individual who is willing to give some information out. Someone mentioned on another post that Verizon was willing to give out the rom with permission from Sharp. It might also help to remember the person you talk to so that you can call them often and develop somewhat of a "friendship". Any convincing people here?

theres actually some good progress in ideas, but no progress in actually succsesfully hacking it. We just need time.

Modestmuse said:
theres actually some good progress in ideas, but no progress in actually succsesfully hacking it. We just need time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Time and Information to be exact.

I would love to see this thing hacked
It has such great hardware for (now a feature phone). 8mp camera, 720p video recording, 600mhz Tegra processor, 256mb of RAM, and 8 gb of storage. Those are low-end (atleast on the processor and ram side of things) smartphone specs. If someone got android or hacked the actual Kin OS, it would be amazing. Honestly, I have to wonder if Microsoft (since they gave up on the phone) would hand over any info on it. I highly doubt it but eh you never know.

10...
I think this is why we dont have any serious phone hackers helping out.

http: // w w w.crunchgear. com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Zune-HD.png
Has anyone tried this?
Hook up your kin and see if it is recognized by windows phone connector?
it can recognize zune HD so why not kin?
and if it doesnt recognize kin we could make a driver...
any thought?

kintwom said:
10...
I think this is why we dont have any serious phone hackers helping out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If no one makes if for "fun", no one makes it for recognition, and if no one does for money, you are allowed to begin to suspect what the Kin status is.

Why would you want to hack the Kin2. this guy i work with has one. He absolutly hates it. I would have to agree with him. I tried to use it for a couple mins and gave up.

jwalts27 said:
Why would you want to hack the Kin2. this guy i work with has one. He absolutly hates it. I would have to agree with him. I tried to use it for a couple mins and gave up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason we want to hack it is because the only that sucks about it is the OS. It has great hardware and could be an excellent feature phone if it were programmed better. Just one thought, look at the how smooth the interface and touch movement is in the zune portion of the phone. It is much smoother than the actual OS. Basically, Microsoft did a poor job with the OS and so the hardware is not being utilized to its full potential. That is why we are trying to optimize it.

mcdietz said:
The reason we want to hack it is because the only that sucks about it is the OS. It has great hardware and could be an excellent feature phone if it were programmed better. Just one thought, look at the how smooth the interface and touch movement is in the zune portion of the phone. It is much smoother than the actual OS. Basically, Microsoft did a poor job with the OS and so the hardware is not being utilized to its full potential. That is why we are trying to optimize it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly, the poor OS development ended up it not using its full processor potential, its like they had a deadline to make it, and they werent finished....

Hardware programming Kin Two? And Kin Two to Kin Two(m) conversion?

Hey guys,
I know Verizon, Sharp, and Microsoft want us to think Kin Two is dead. I've been browsing these forums for a while. Remarkable efforts on your parts..
I'm an electronics guy by hobby. Nothing serious. My Kin ONE(m) suffered the rebooting modem problem and never recovered. I tore it apart. I accidently killed the power supply section...boohoo, but I'm wondering what exactly the hardware limitation was that we couldn't get much to happen between Kin and PC. I heard someone said there was some sort of chip that blocked any 3rd party communication.
I have no actual electronics education but I've been teaching myself for a couple of years. None of these devices are really "locked" I don't think. I don't think a USB programming interface will do the trick. I don't think they were programmed via USB in the factory. I'm looking at the iFixit Kin TWO teardown photos and I'm trying to find an ICSP header. I see two places on the board where there are 4 contacts in a row. These potentially could be SPI or JTAG headers. I'm not a programmer by nature, though I can do some, but I think using those headers would give you direct access to processor/memory. I'm not sure what is the restricting agent right now, but that's as hardwired as you can get.
Again, I'm no professional....BUT, if you do want some people that do have electrical engineering degrees and that are reeally helpful with all things hardware/software/electronics I'd stop over the EEVBlog Forums. eevblog.com/forum/. Go in General Chat or in Microcontrollers. The people in Microcontrollers will have a better programming background but everyone goes in the General Chat so either one.
I think they will really be able to help. They aren't really hackers, but a hell of a lot of knowledge there. The forum owner is an electrical engineer. There is atleast 5 other EEs that frequently post of the forums and they don't treat anyone bad. Tons of really smart people and it's a very active forum. Just sell it to them and you'll have 20 posts on your thread in one evening.
If you guys are still interested, I am still interested in doing something with this phone.
On another note, there's no way to get Kin Two(m) software onto a Kin Two phone is there? I don't think so, but it gets rather annoying having to skip the setup everytime I turn it on etc.
Thanks and good luck.
By the way these are the HARDEST captchas I have ever had in my life. A

FenderBender11 said:
Hey guys,
I know Verizon, Sharp, and Microsoft want us to think Kin Two is dead. I've been browsing these forums for a while. Remarkable efforts on your parts..
I'm an electronics guy by hobby. Nothing serious. My Kin ONE(m) suffered the rebooting modem problem and never recovered. I tore it apart. I accidently killed the power supply section...boohoo, but I'm wondering what exactly the hardware limitation was that we couldn't get much to happen between Kin and PC. I heard someone said there was some sort of chip that blocked any 3rd party communication.
I have no actual electronics education but I've been teaching myself for a couple of years. None of these devices are really "locked" I don't think. I don't think a USB programming interface will do the trick. I don't think they were programmed via USB in the factory. I'm looking at the iFixit Kin TWO teardown photos and I'm trying to find an ICSP header. I see two places on the board where there are 4 contacts in a row. These potentially could be SPI or JTAG headers. I'm not a programmer by nature, though I can do some, but I think using those headers would give you direct access to processor/memory. I'm not sure what is the restricting agent right now, but that's as hardwired as you can get.
Again, I'm no professional....BUT, if you do want some people that do have electrical engineering degrees and that are reeally helpful with all things hardware/software/electronics I'd stop over the EEVBlog Forums. eevblog.com/forum/. Go in General Chat or in Microcontrollers. The people in Microcontrollers will have a better programming background but everyone goes in the General Chat so either one.
I think they will really be able to help. They aren't really hackers, but a hell of a lot of knowledge there. The forum owner is an electrical engineer. There is atleast 5 other EEs that frequently post of the forums and they don't treat anyone bad. Tons of really smart people and it's a very active forum. Just sell it to them and you'll have 20 posts on your thread in one evening.
If you guys are still interested, I am still interested in doing something with this phone.
On another note, there's no way to get Kin Two(m) software onto a Kin Two phone is there? I don't think so, but it gets rather annoying having to skip the setup everytime I turn it on etc.
Thanks and good luck.
By the way these are the HARDEST captchas I have ever had in my life. A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont think this can help us very much considering were having problems with software hacking not hardware. I dont think they can help us, but mabye we should have Johnkussack look into this. Hes kinda our lead if you will.

WEM97 said:
I dont think this can help us very much considering were having problems with software hacking not hardware. I dont think they can help us, but mabye we should have Johnkussack look into this. Hes kinda our lead if you will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have clearly never used a USB jug to un brick a phone, got s off on a HTC vivid or used a factory data cable on a Droid RAZR. They all use hardware too access our bypass software. So this good work out couldn't but there may be something here. Obviously plugging it into the computer and doing the same thing over and over isn't though.
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