Develop Bugs

WP7 is complete FAIL

No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks. Terabyte SDXC cards are on the way and WP7 buyers are stuck with built in 8-32GB. And you have no thumb drive mode and no SD card to take out and load files on it.
No copy and paste
No, you are not dreaming to live in 2007. It really is 2010 and WP7 really has no copy&paste. Is this ridiculous or what?
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text

WP7 is complete FAIL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are from Europe, and noone but European citizen will understand this statement, imho(y know what i mean...i think).
I do. Although wm died for me with 6.5, wm7 have beaten everything i could imagine as succesor of 6.x.
WM7 is just death of pda's. They should name it TwittmarketplaceBS.
But let me be honest - people wanted another iphone, and they WILL HAVE another iphone.
We can stay away from that...nothing more...
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just because lack of BRAIN, not multitasking problem.
That's why iphonelike bs is ONLY option for 'em.
Shame, there will be no solutions for thinking people soon.

I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to email files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?

Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way somehow. I think it's OK otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM. WM's fate is death for most people. Even for me, I've been using WM for yeeears, but for me it feels slow, dated, and yet powerful but at the end I end using the dialer, the picture explorer, and messaging system.
I have a ZuneHD, I love its interface, speed and simplicity; and it has a basic but enough multitasking capability. According to some videos that I've seen, I've noticed that the multitasking capabilities are even better in WM7.
About the SD Card... 8gb is enough for most people, and this is the smallest storage size that the new Windows mobile phone will have. The customizations... I'm sorry but most of the themes out there are [email protected], and I even consider that HTC interface is all bloated and slow. I'm sure there will be some customizations in WM7, it's just matter of time to figure out the way to do so.
The good thing, is that you have many more options like the Android, the iPhone or even Nokia, which new OS looks good enough to compete with all the new competitors.

sm3rtlag3l said:
I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to wmail files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I know is that my 4 y.o. pda with PHONE MODULE is working ok.
Sry, cannot answer your question...do not try to understand US citizens..waste of time, imho.
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, dude, PDA was not phone, but personal assistant(you know, computer ,not iphonelikebs) and it WAS ok, then iphone rose from **** and idea wanished.
All about that.
g'night guys.

daniel_rh said:
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Nokia Symbian and Android and also Palm webOS are not locked down ****. Only WP7 and iPhone are.
And also Android and Symbian^3 have very good UIs too so it is not necessary to lock them down to make it easy to use.
And even multitasking can be very easy to use, like on Palm webOS and Nokia Symbian^3.
Hardware base specs is good for the user experience but missing features and censorship is always bad. Apple started that **** but they were lucky because they had the only good UI so people bought their phone nevertheless and now years later MS copies them completely.
But today it is not enough because everyone now has good UIs so features like file system access make the difference. Plus there are still all the power users and enterprises they are many as well (and it is not necessary to be a power user to benefit from those features - using one's brain is enough).

sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks.
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we should think the other way round, look how iphone is popular with its easy to use GUI and still its locked.
Most ppl are not techh savvy as us who loves to install cabs etc. People want out of the box experience.
So when a lay man (in tech terms) asks for a smartphone help, I suggest him iphone as it can do most of the task which it desined to no hangs etc.. Now I can suggest wm7 device for sure....
But wait whats the point of having a Windows phone if I cant customize... its not for me... first wp7 and then no wp7 upgrade in HD2 has made me not to buy any smartphone..
my 37 $ ***kia phone which I brought temporarily whin I lost touch viva... is doing a nice job... with 1020 mah battery , reminders, wireless fm, standard organigers ,,basic spreadsheet , notes...
Locked nature of WP7 has lost my in Interest in smartphones. I was like suggesting every1 of WM advantages....
WM sucked coz only on crap hardware and GUI.... and HTC fones saved its saved still it have 15 % share in smartphone OS.
MS is not sure where it want sto go......

WP7 is a complete pass for me. I don't need 1TB or 2TB storage. Hell my 16GB Zune HD is only 1GB full. Being an avid fan of Xbox live gaming, Outlook (Exchange) and facebook, this phone is a win win win.
Remember people. It's made for the majority (non-geeks) not minority (geeks).

Microsoft has stated that there will be a way to distribute applications outside of marketplace (for enterprise mainly). I'm sure we will be able to use this to our advantage for all the apps we want to get from here. They are basically putting in a backdoor asking for us to open it cause they know the techys want that opening. Now as long as we can figure out how to get access to the file system we will have no more issues. Maybe they just put in minimal restrictions to protect the normal EU but keep it easy for us. That second part is speculation only though.

Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumb downed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Window mobile's customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers. Hopefully with it being a series they have an actual smartphone edition.

wp7 will be a sucess. Why would you want a mini PC based UI, the PC UI is 30 years old..and for one a phone is a different device, why not take a different route? Half the hacks for winmo6X are too improve and and even make use of the devices hardware/software better,..wp7 doesnt have that..or is it needed. The other half(customizing) won't be needed since the UI has information across every inch of the screen, why waste screen space w/ a desktop like home screen on a 3 inch screen?

sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am with you on all that. It seems that Symbian will be the only Mobile OS that is actually OPEN and, without a doubt the most efficient one. Android and Win CE are hardware hungry, and that is why one of them (android) eats it's battery when multitasking and the other one won't even have it because it will "compromise" the end user experiance. What they really mean by that is "we need 2ghz CPU and 1 gb ram to run 4 programs at the same time" until then, take that "save state" BS that apple has been selling you for years already and be happy.

No native coding is completely FAIL
No native coding is completely FAIL

egmkang said:
No native coding is completely FAIL
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why

Hi,
I wish i could say i completely disagree but unfortunately I think you're totally right :-(
first I was not convinced with the new user interface which is imho very ugly.But the announcements of today are the final stroke for me ! Windows Phone 7 is no more than a dumb phone with app support. The latest versions of winmo 6.5.x were really heading in the right direction I think and now microsoft is breaking everything with windows phone 7.Now I'm sure that the future of windows mobile for me is windows mobile itself ! no windows phone series for me ! Everything I hate about apple, microsoft just copied into windows phone 7. this really is not for me. Thank you M. Microsoft ! I'm so disappointed !
Thomas

Slow
havox22 said:
why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click a button , then you can get a sleep

egmkang said:
Click a button , then you can get a sleep
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?

havox22 said:
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.

egmkang said:
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol what you just said means nothing to me i just told you i have know knowledge of any of that but thanks for trying to explain, nvm about explaining it ill go read a book on it, maybe bing it

il be sticking with the hd2 il be buying next week
only worry i have is i doubt we will get much more developed for 6.5 from now on :/

I'm for the WM7

And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical. people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
For Example:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?

jacobgong said:
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
jacobgong said:
people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
jacobgong said:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
jacobgong said:
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
jacobgong said:
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
jacobgong said:
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
jacobgong said:
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.

both of yalls post were to long to read cuz its late, but im for wp7 also

wm7 is going to kill this community i think

jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard of Max Manilla, Max Sense or TouchXprience?? if not I would be more than glad to direct you to their forums!!

I am looking forward to WP7
WP7 certainly looks like a lovely interface and i am quite excited about it. I have enjoyed my WM6.x phone over the last few years - but I will be happy to step into the more consumer focused model that Microsoft has put forward.

Fa7my said:
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard glad to direct you to their forums!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I have.
they may look fancy but they obviously lack a lot of polishing.

Spike15 said:
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post kills, but much of it is true

It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really, I never thought about governments and evil corporations or anything like that. It's your freedom if you think arguing about such things make you more free and intelligent.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know what Multitasking means, I run a quad-core 8-thread Intel Xeon desktop. I never said it's entirely not used, it's just really not that useful because even the example you gave me is a very rare case, which shows how often you really use it, not very.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what made WM6.5 fail, thinking a phone OS is the same as a Desktop OS. it's not. the Phone is an appliance, not a general purpose electronic computer.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that "except" will be impossible, but I don't need it to be possible because the WM7 UI is a lot better than anything we've ever had. if nobody was able to make anything close to it, I don't expect anything better to be made any time soon.
and you are free to show me which of you freedom tweakers have made anything better than the HTC Sence/iPhone OS/HTC Android triple screen UI.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do I really care? the fact is the iPhone Safari browser browses the web better than a freakin netbook, it's a lot more fluid with multi-touch zoom and all that. Unlike Opera 10 on WM lags all the time and shows blanks when you zoom and pan.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you didn't know, writing programs before the existence of operating systems was a pain in the ass, cause you can't use languages like C
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the FaceBook app is there, because it makes it easier to access Facebook. If I try to access it with the web browser not only is it slow, laggy, power intensive. it's not optimized for finger use.
It's people like you who made the WM6.5 stylus and big battery a necessity.
as for the file syncing thing, yea I hate to have a syncing software like iTunes or whatever, I will hope it still works like thumbdrive drag and drop.
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.

jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization doesn't just have to do with looking good.
As you say...
There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization allows the user to make this trade off, and choose for example a more functional user interface that impressionable consumers would find less attractive.

jacobgong you are obviously an iPhone fan, ie. you belong to the market share (iphone users) to which microsoft is focusing on with WP7.
Welcome to the microsoft world! So glad they managed to grab you! This means their strategy is actually working!
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
This is actually a merge of worlds. MS is going to give us developers an opportunity to create apps for ex-iphone users like my friend jacobgong, if they manage to grab that share... And as I can see, they are already doing great!
This is good news.

jacobgong said:
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL
This said after "And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical."
LOL!!!
You made my day, man. As a nerd who lives for customization and for what we "can" do rather than what the unwashed masses "do" do (hurhur, doodoo), I died a little bit inside. XD Let my phone look like it's from the '70s! More nerd points! It can do a heck of a lot more than yours (okay, I have no idea what you use), and that's all that matters to me. Cool, eh? At least it's more "practical" than your line of reasoning!

Spike15, well said. Making masses into vegetables. As i see it, Queen gave masses high school education, enough earnings to have a holiday in Spain, buy few pints on the weekend and go to a football match, beyond that nobody as of vegetable masses likes Mr. jacobgong dont know where is Russia to say the least

jacobgong said:
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and your dream will be to get Adobe Flash support on the iPhone, which will never happen. And a browser without flash is just 50%. So you are forced to use a crappy app for youtube etc. And for you to know: your such beloved Safari browser is insecure as hell. Just google "Safari vulnerabilities" and you will see. So go away and shove that ugly thing up your arse.

hi all members i very like it on this forums
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.

Whats happening to the Smartfone?

Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.

You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).

No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.

krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations

can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind

Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................

I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!

Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach

yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.

anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Otherwise known as prison

devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.

I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.

ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.

^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.

If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy

tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.

addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol

Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.

chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.

A Wider View on the Future of WP7

This thread should not be about how WP7 should catch up with the competition but how WP7 should be ITSELF and raise the bar/level on its own.
I looked on the various ideas from developers (i.e. the lockscreen being filled with some Android-ish widgets or infos) and I basically don't personally like the idea or where this seems to be going.
I LOVE WP7 , I love it for finally having something fresh and fast after years and years of icons-mania, custom ROMs,PC-tweakage-and-problems-ported-to-phones similarities. I love it so much that I personally do not give a damn about missing some features right now which are to be implemented soon enough. (although I RESPECT other's opinion)
The thing is that right now there is no such thing as WP7 in terms of UI on the market, NOTHING! And this is the OS' biggest strentgh right now. The reason I bought this phone (HD7) is for finally getting rid off all those geeky stuff. I love how I can see a clean wallpaper with a minimalistic basic notification below and a huge date. It's just what you need , it's clean , it's modern, it's how an OS in (almost) 2011 should be. But I am not talking here only about esthetics or eye-candy, I am talking about how well information is being provided to the user, how professional is done rather than some active wallpaper which basically has no purpose rather than a silly childish brag and a battery drainer.
I want WP7 to stay that way, I don't want to become an Android wannabe.
IMO I find Android a rather weak UI. I mean we are almost hitting 2.3 but has there been any serious major update? Nada.
So, the point of this topic would be about developers being able to help raise this new standard.It's about perception, it's basically about the purpose of the phone. Phones should help people comunicate. I keep seeing news in this current Smartphone world about hardware upgrades and basically nothing else. Originality has been in the last years left behind.
This is where I think Microsoft simply nailed it.The OS is not perfect, it's not perfect because it doesn't satisfy some needs, but people should think of what they really need NOT what they saw at other OS device and want this or that back.I can see why Steve Ballmer said WP7 will be one of MS' biggest succeses and I can see why an OS like this is not yet polished and I can see that it needed a little bit more time to develop properly but obviously they simply couldn't afford another delay. It's just something new !
I hope mods don't close this thread because as I initially stated this is not about what WP7 does or does not, it's about what WP7 is and can be or what it can change.

I agree. I'm not missing all the icons all over the home page, having to retheme them everytime I flashed a ROM. At the time I liked doing it, but now I'm just enjoying using the phone.
I think there are a couple of things microsoft needs to add, like outlook support and vpn so business users can jump on board. I think we will see pretty frequent updates in the beginning and I'm excited by where wp7 is going.

I share your love for the Metro UI; I look the whole minimal look. But I hope you can appreciate this look is not for everyone. So the UI being the greatest selling point for you may be the greatest downfall for someone else.
There are two approaches companies can take in the mobile OS war:
1. Highly customizable OS that can look and behave however you want it.
2. Highly restrictive OS that will look and behave how they expect it to.
The pros with the first is that kind of OS will be able to appeal to the masses. The cons are that it is a more complicated OS that may have stability and support issues.
The second is usually the exact opposite.
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.

I completely agree.
After couple years of tweaking my PPC 6700, TP, TPII and HD2, changing ROMs every week, using Sashimi to restore my settings, and lately trying almost every Android build available on my HD2, I have to say that the first days with my HD7 were boring. No many post in XDA, most of them complains about the missing features, but nothing really exiting. Now, I do miss some features but my experience with this phone is great. Everything works, and does it really fast. I had to restart the phone only once in more than 2 weeks and it was just because I had visual voice mail in the HD2 and Tmobile had to change my setting in their end and they recommended that I restarted the phone.
Everything is smooth, everything work , I spend more time in the market now and less in XDA, I even get better battery live because I’m not using the phone that much trying to see what else I can tweak, I can’t check current widget every once in a while to see how my battery is doing and I can’t or I don’t have to do a lot of thing to improve my experience with the phone because it is out of the box by far better than any other phone I ever owned.

nicksti said:
We will see but I suspect the Metro UI will not have mass appeal. The hubs and XB Live can be a difference maker though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro UI will definitely be a seller as developers perfect their implementation and understanding of how to work in it for optimal user experience.
Developers should spend 1-2 hours flipping around in zune to see how they can create a nice app that doesn't look like someone copy and pasted the demo code

To be honest...
The looks and the flashy animations matter very little to me.
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Allow me to stream music to my car via bluetooth
- Allow me to print to my wifi enabled network printer
- Allow me to sideload files into applications (Important!)
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
- Allow me to heavily customize it
I'm not asking for a lot really
I mean honestly... PDA's have been around for at least 10 years already... I feel like MS have just pushed their platform back to the dark ages.
I want to see interconnectivity and flexibility!

I agree with everyone above I'd also like to see multitask and everything else people want BUT I want to have it in the WP7 way , not how we've seen it so far.
Microsoft needs to find a balance between having a "locked down OS" and a highly-customizable one. If a dump OS means a higher quality control and a brilliantly fast UI then I personally take it, that doesn't mean everyone likes it.
Apple really did manage to make a milestone in mobile phones with the iPhone but they somehow stopped (maybe due to succes) and now we have as I said an icon-mania based OS or an app-centric one. I think Apple could have done a lot more (at least after 3GS) and deliver a twist once more.
On the other hand, Microsoft learned (not copied) the Apple recipe and understood that less is more and simple things are more likely to atract customers although this doesn't mean it will also satisfy the more advanced users yet they can still do it ! If they can make it spot on with the first update things can only improve to an already refreshing and solid OS.

What's so wrong about being app centric anyway? I like the fact that my phone is the most versatile multi-tool I own. A device that can achieve a near infinite number of tasks that fits neatly in my pocket. To me, apps are the real draw for having a smartphone.

The number of apps is rising heavily, games ehh games take a little longer to develop. This is because Silverlight and XNA and Visual Studio in general is such a pleasure to use. When devs do something for the platform, 99% will definitely stay because they wouldn't want to go back to horrible Objective-C. So we're going to start seeing the games market sway to WP7.
The future of apps and games in the WP7 Marketplace is going to be crazy

I will just say something obvious,
but in a broader image MS will have a great great advantage
retaining it's great UI and whole concept/paradigm turned to "average" customer
but adding missing power features underneath.
That is also what makes Windows7 so great for instance.
And users will be more conscious no doubt.

AceofSpades25 said:
To be honest...
I just want a smartphone that can do the basic things that a smartphone is meant to be able to do:
- Allow me to consume all of my media with it (without awkward work arounds)
(Including Comics/Books/PDF's/Videos of all formats)
- Allow the phone to be browsed and copied to/from from any device on my home network (Kill Zune) - including my devices like my internet enabled hifi, my media streaming station connected to my tv, all computers and laptops etc.
- Run apps in the background (GPS trackers/pedometers etc.)
- Allow me to structure my own file system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!

I agree with the OP and no I don't want the WP7 to become anything like the WM 6.5. Personally I don't even care for the multi-tasking but I know a lot of people want it so I would hope that MS does it in a way that doesn't hamper the speed and smoothness of the WP7 UI as in smart multi-tasking and not like my previous android which always had multiple apps in the background.

Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!

Honestly, I think the reason for WP7 being released "prematurely" as put by some, is entirely business oriented. They just wanted to get on the consumer's mindset BEFORE the year ends, and make some money along the way. In a perfect world, WP7 would have come out in Q2 2011 with all the missing features.
I am loving my Optimus 7 though...and the biggest missing features for me are multitasking or at least some degree of backgrounding, and USB mass storage/file manager access, although the latter can be solved to some degree with a simply registry hack on the computer it is connected to. Also, the fact that I cannot simply load up any word or excel file I want without a sharepoint account is pretty f--ing stupid. Same thing with pdfs...
I do not hate Zune, as some do, and I find it to be quite the fast little program, when compared to something like iTunes. I just wish Microsoft did not continuously ignore CANADA, and omit all the features from its services when it came to a Canadian Live Account ( I am too tied into my live account to make a new one with an American locale, I use it for my msdn account, zune, xbox live, hotmail, and dreamspark account, so switching is much less an option to me ).
Overall, I will stick with my phone until April/May, and if it hasn't drastically improved by then, I will be switching to something better, possibly.

From the USA perspective, the launch of WP7 was done right before what is expected to be a huge holiday sales season. I just saw a news story today where they are expecting retails sales to be the best in many years. Black Friday is tomorrow and Cyber Monday is in a few days. It's competitors have nothing exciting going on now. Meanwhile, Microsoft launches Kinect and WP7, both integrated with their successful Xbox. If things go their way, this may go down as the season of Microsoft. I don't know if it will work, but I bought a WP7 phone and we are talking about getting Kinect for the kids . So yes, it was a business move, and probably a good one, to launch WP7 when they did. No, it doesn't have all the features we would like... but with over 1 billion USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.

dez93_2000 said:
I'm 100% on the fence at the moment. I've got to bring my HD7 back to the O2 shop tomorrow night to get it replaced because it won't turn on (bad batch of SD cards according to some on the web) then i get the rest of the 14 days to make my mind up. Subsequently i've had to go back to my HD1 with months-old energy Rom which it struggles to run, and my thoughts have been:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Ditto things like not being able to set my own custom ringtones - what is this, 1998?!
I can live without Swype, and Skype, and having to use IE without a back button, and bing maps with seemingly no ability to copy across my gmaps starred locations, and the inability to copy everything across using MyPhone. But should i have to, since i'm paying a big chunk of money for the privilege?
I'm surprised and disappointed that MS has spent so long on this OS - and done a pretty awesome job in so many areas - only to seriously drop the ball in excluding key features which made 6.5 (especially with XDA dev ROMs) able to compete with iOS/android. Why not release it a little later, with these things enabled? As a user, and windows fan (again, despite running linux as primary at home, thereby losing the potential compatibility advantage), why am i put in a position where i have to gamble that MS fixes the gaping holes in WP7 as soon as poss in 2011, and in the meantime run a relatively feature-crippled phone with an (understandably) threadbare marketplace?
Opportunity for unproductive snippy comment: "why don't you stop whining and get an iphone/android phone then?"
Potentially valid. Answer: no to iphone because of being one of the masses, lifelong anti-appleness, and no way i'm being tied into itunes. But since WP7 ties me into zune (for now, ish), and i'm a linux user, why not go with Android? The marketplace is comparable to apple's, the handsets compete with the best, and some opinion pieces i've read reckon android will overtake iphone. Newer, wp7-tested opinion pieces reckon WP7 will end up on top.
Anyone else in the same quandry? I'm wondering whether it'd be best to give the phone back, go back to HD1 until MS ships WP7.1 and then see how it - and the hopefully 2nd gen handsets which are then available - compares to the latest android build and the handsets available on that.
With apologies for the length of this musing, i'd be grateful to hear people's opinions on the future of WP7 as pertains to competition with android, handset battles, and OS improvements.
Cheers in advance!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I feel the same way... I would rather have an Android, but I love developing for WP7. Fortunately, I will be getting a WP7 device through work, so the decision is out of my hands. The only thing I can do now is to keep on at Microsoft about removing the restrictions on the platform.

dez93_2000 said:
"The breezy interface, simple graphical UI and uprated hardware of HD7+WP7 are REALLY great, but the lack of certain features is potentially a deal breaker"
Having to use Zune (as a linux user this means booting into windows or installing a virtualbox) is a major pain compared to how easy it is to drag&drop into 6.5.
Ditto not being able to put pdfs/other files onto the phone without dropbox via net browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I fully subscribe to the points above.
I hate to be tied to a PC and to Zune. It has always been the reason I avoided the iPhone... And now it seems it's coming to WP7 I think it's the wrong way.

bmazloum said:
Everything everyone has said is pretty much right on.
I think a multi-tasking solution but only for privileged programs would be ideal. I'm sure there are programs that don't need to be run in the background, at all. Include a bit of info on the program download page that this will keep running in the bg until you actually click "... | Exit"
Fix the marketplace purchasing system. I hate how music+video is MS points, but Apps+Games must be purchased through a credit card. I like points since I can limit myself. Every month buy x amount of points. If I spend them, I spend them. If not, I'll have more for the following month. It's a lot easier.
File Transfer. I don't care about music, I don't care about video. Zune integration is fine, it ensures that all your media will run properly, and look its best (converting). But to get your office/pdf files over there? Seriously. I have to open my brower, type the URL, login, and then browse to the file to upload. Then when I want it on my phone, go and do the same thing?! They need to have a file transfer for two things. For putting files on the phone and having it read them. And another for moving files as a mass storage device. I sometimes don't finish stuff at work and bring them home on my phone, and then back the next day.
Remote Desktop app. They can seriously do this, I don't know what's holding them back.
Smart DJ. Is it me, or does it not exist? What's the point of ZunePass?
Bluetooth file transfers would be cool. But I know that's impossible to ask for.
Games. Figure out how to stop us from quitting the game if we just touch the windows key. Make it so it has to be held down for 3 solid seconds to quit the game. I hate that!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great points. Definitely with the gaming. Some type of suspended gaming answer text then back to gaming.

Couldn't agree more with the comments. I love tech (I'm sure everyone on here does!), and Android was great for a while - something a little different, very customisable etc...but I love the simplicity of WP7, it has focus, and that focus is the user.
Of course there is plenty they could and should add, but this is V1 and I think we forget that too often. For an OS just out the door, it's fantastically polished, and as long as they stick to their promise to provide regular updates, and even more importantly, make sure that they only enhance the phone and don't start to break features or affect performance, then they have a real winner on their hands.

smuook said:
In USD estimated marketing campaign in launching Kinect and WP7, Microsoft is in deep. There is now way they will let it fail. They can't. I have seen more advertising from the them recently than I can ever remember. We will get some form of cut & past, turn by turn nav, multitasking, etc... and probably new things that you haven't thought of. It is all coming soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly ! People somehow got used to think that if it's not iPhone like fame then a certain device is not succesfull. Being so much money in this even if they like it or not they will have to make it better and better (not that for me is bad in any way). I had have mine for a while already and I didn't think for 1 second going back to other OS.

what is the point of smoothness when you don't have function?

Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.

well if you dont want smoothness and fast responses..
Just customization and hoards of functionalities you are welcome to use the Windows 6.5

Indeed WP7 doesn't have some basic functionalities, but is easy to use with fast response as you mentioned. Every fanboy of any brand tries to overdraw. Don't start a flame war

shamreez said:
Just customization and hoards of functionalities you are welcome to use the Windows 6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fail, why would I want to use Windows Mobile 6.5 when I have Android 4.0?

Mark_QS said:
Indeed WP7 doesn't have some basic functionalities, but is easy to use with fast response as you mentioned. Every fanboy of any brand tries to overdraw. Don't start a flame war
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not trying to start a war, I am trying to understand why all the emphasis of smoothness at the expense of functionality in WP7?

FinancialWar said:
Fail, why would I want to use Windows Mobile 6.5 when I have Android 4.0?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Double fail why do you want to go to a new OS called Android when there is already windows 6.5 which can do everything an android can

FinancialWar said:
Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The big question is, does one really "need" those functions and is willing to compensate for it by using a less coherent system, apps that can crash your phone, random reboots, can leak your personal belongings, and all other things.
The answer for some people is yes --> android. For some people its no --> windows phone. I for example care about design and thats the no.1 reason why I dont like android, because it does not have a design and looks too childish/nerdo for my taste. I trade less but usefull features for some eye candy any day, because I use my phone everyday so I stare at the menu's a whole lot in the years I use my phone. And what am I truely missing? Just Skype... And this will be even integrated into the OS. And a notification system, I bet this will come in Apollo. Like last year we will probably get a beta in a few months, so I am very satisfied, because the beta's were actually perfectly suitable for daily use.
At least I dont have to worry about random reboots and dont have to witness the laggy scrolling trough the marketplace like my friends with the GS2... The whole response/bounce and kinetic scrolling of WP7 is far more natural than android. Sure they have more useless apps and they have skype and some games, but I never play games. And for customizations, its android it remains unpleasant to look at.
Other than that it is a matter of personal preferences, a friend told me android has "no bugs". Its like yeah whatever, people are entitled to their opinions and thats why we all have something to chose from which suits our needs.
You android, we WP, is android perfect? No, far from it. Is WP perfect? No far from it. However what is the most perfect choice for you is what matters and you made yours. I made mine, and Im happy and dont have to post in an android forum why their phones all have cheap looking menu's. Every time I touch my phone its a joy to use, no frustrations, now annoyances.

I'm not one to shy away from a good debate, but please keep it respectful here. Threads comparing Android and WP7 usually degenerate fairly quickly, so I just wanted to remind everyone not to turn this discussion against someone personally.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the way you present it can make a huge difference in how others perceive it.
edit: As for the question though, aesthetics are very important to a lot of people. The occasional stuttering of Android can almost be painful to someone if they're not accustomed to it, yet others may be able to get used to it quickly and are able to over look it for everything else the OS provides. IMHO Android still has a ways to go before it's intuitive and user friendly enough to be adopted by a lot of people in the market for smartphones, plus a lot of people don't have the time that's needed to learn how to use it efficiently. It seems like Microsoft is trying to find the middle ground between the aesthetics of iOS and the versatility of Android & Win mobile.

FinancialWar said:
Defenders of WP7 always emphasis on smoothness without fail, it's like the only point WP7 fan boys can come up with.
But what is the point of smoothness when your phone don't have some of the basic and necessary functions Android have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It depends on how basic and necessary those functions are to you.
For example:
1) bluetooth file sharing isn't a necessary function to me, i might have used it twice in a year when i was on Android;
2) being able to play every kind of unconverted video format isn't important to me because i hardly ever watch movies on the go, i've had the GS2 for 5 months and i might have done that once, just to give it a try;
3) being able to play FLAC music files on my phone is something i don't care about because a real audiophile would never use the phone as a main music player because of the cheap DACs used by OEMs; even lossy mp3 files are a waste on some of those if you have good ears.
4) i don't give a damn about flash, it's mostly used for ads and other gimmicks rather for anything useful over the net; i know some may care (not that i do) about streaming sites/services but most of those generally have their app.
5) i don't really need usb mass storage support because i don't even use my phone for music right now, i only use it for browsing, running apps and viewing/editing documents.
6) i don't really need a file browser because i find more convenient to look for specific kinds of files in their specific hub: it's just tidier and faster to me.
Anyway these are just few examples, would you point me to some things that you find basic and necessary and WP7 doesn't do? Maybe you should talk in a more specific way, because like i said, the concept of "basic and necessary" is too subjective and generic imho.
The only things i don't really like about WP7 is the lack of a decent built in navigation app and real multitasking, because some apps don't really support dehydratation that well and don't take you exactly where you were at.
Also, it's not all about smoothness, but also efficient integration of the few apps i really use daily and deem consider important, overall consistency in the look and feel of the OS, reliability and last but not least uniformity of the software throughout the platform, regardless the price of the device you choose to buy. Most people think that WP7 is form over function, i used to think the same way, but after you get into it imho you realize that it's pretty functional in its own way.
Tell me what does bother you the most about the OS, i'm open to discussion, i've owned Android devices for a great while so i understand how it baffles you to see people being happy about a mobile OS which apparently is too limited compared to Android. Hopefully nobody will get in here and turn this thing into the usual war...

vnvman:
you see how all of your arguments are "I don't need it, therefore it justifies why WP7 don't have it". No, you're not the only mobile user in the world.
That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.

FinancialWar said:
vnvman:
you see how all of your arguments are "I don't need it, therefore it justifies why WP7 don't have it". No, you're not the only mobile user in the world.
That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And neither are you. You're coming into this section posting with a superior, higher than thou attitude and implying that just because YOU need these features, Windows Phone lacks "function." You aren't the only user in the world, and the fact is, that most people who purchase an Android device, never even change their launcher, let alone use most of the "functionality" you're claiming is so important. If it doesn't work for you, then stay in the Android section, and post wonderful topics over there. I don't get why some of you get your daily satisfaction by coming in here in posting nonsense like this. As vnvman said, we don't need it, so the phone is perfect for us. If you need it, then don't purchase the device. I prefer being able to effortlessly use the "functionality" I do have, than to have to modify my phone to have a chance of using "new" features. A lot of Android devices aren't even on Gingerbread yet, and will probably never get ICS, so this functionality argument stops there for them.

Financial,
I find the thing we lack the most is empathy. Many responses you already receive sum it up. But let me ask you the reverse question:
What is the point of functionality without stability?
Let us take a step back from this smoothness argument and go back to another thing that has plagued Android - Battery life. What is the point of using multicore, highspeed CPUs in order to achieve something that less horsepowered phones easily achieve at the expense of price and battery life?
Also your idea of necessary functions and my I idea may be very different. What is Windows Phone missing that you deem basic?

Once upon a time, XDA was a place to come to and learn and teach, now, it's a place where people preach their phone religion...even if it's just to start a bunch of nonsense... I have Android and WP, is it really that boring in the Android forums that a person would start THIS thread in THIS section....? I'm going to sit back and watch the same ol' from the same ol'....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Dr.8820 said:
Once upon a time, XDA was a place to come to and learn and teach, now, it's a place where people preach their phone religion...even if it's just to start a bunch of nonsense... I have Android and WP, is it really that boring in the Android forums that a person would start THIS thread in THIS section....? I'm going to sit back and watch the same ol' from the same ol'....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IDK, it seems like many Android users have some serious e-penis issue. Honestly I can't cope with that: when I was on Android I was never tired to express my criticism towards the platform, as I now do with WP7. Criticisms is very important: if the end user is always satisfied with what it has he will never get a better product.
This is what I do:
1)I choose a platform, see what I like and what I don't.
2)If something I don't like stays there for a too long time I jump ship.
3)Repeat.
IDK, maybe I'm weird.

What I don't understand about all these Android users posting about WP7 being 'useless' is that they seem to have forgotten one MAJOR point:
The vast majority of people buying smartphones don't have a blind clue about what Android can really do if they push it. They get the phone, set up facebook, download a few useless apps and never do anything more.
The problem is that Windows Phone just isn't designed for the sort of people who frequent XDA Devs.
Windows Phone is designed for the average user - someone who doesn't have a clue what phone they want, and who'll buy whatever the salesman tells them to. That is currently the iPhone and Android, and people are fast realising that those 2 platforms aren't all that brilliant for people who don't know what to do with them.
Windows Phone is there to take care of those customers - it offers the simplest, fastest interface, with the majority of features most people use and no unnecessary frills. That is exactly the point of Metro, and something that people in this community seem to forget.
Fair enough if you want something that can do more than my laptop and don't care that the battery only lasts 6 hours as a result. You can have that - go an buy an Android.
I want a phone that works first time, every time I pick it up. That means I can pick it up, do or get what I want or need, put it down, and get on with my life. And that's what most people want, too, and that's what Windows Phone offers.
Cue a bunch of Android developers who still don't have a clue what the target market for Windows Phone is flaming the hell out of me.

There's a nice video about the different mobile strategies of Google vs Apple / Microsoft here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Nfgs4EUeTlk#t=129s
In summary:
Apple / Microsoft already have a desktop OS, so can offer mobile devices that are purpose-built appliances.
Google does not have a separate desktop OS. Therefore, Android is designed to be a more general computing platform.
These are different approaches as many of the people above have explained

That's like me saying my Toyota is just as good as the Ferrari because I don't need to drive above 110km/h.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your Toyota is better. It will get you to work everyday for a low cost and won't get stopped along the way because it ran out of gas (aka battery) when your trying to get to your work. It also won't scrape over pot holes and speedbumps. Sure the Ferrari seems flashy and will pick up all the chicks, but in the end you will end up with a broken, dead car that you constantly have to fill up and fix. Meanwhile your toyota with it's single cam will keep on plugging at a decent speed and be reliable every time you start it up till you bring it home.

I like stability, ease of use, aesthetics, an ecosystem, and speed.
You want to hack your phone endlessly to make it almost as smooth, almost as user friendly, slap on a mediocre launcher to make it not an aesthetic nightmare, download apps to emulate some type of ecosystem, and never gain the stability.
That's how I see it broken down. Android gets modified relentlessly to attain what we already have. All we really lack is the games.
E; and how about those updates?

I can see and understand both sides, to me personally WM kicks WP as far as being able to to simple, logical and common stuff vs WP but WP doesn't lock up on you and the battery life seems to be better. But if Windows Phone wants to compete and reallistically wants to be number 3 by 2014 or whatever they are perdicting, they need to wise up and give us back some kind of functionallty; for instance why is it so freaking hard to be able to Bluetooth some one a freaking file when that technology has been around for ages? A cricket phone can do that, why no WP? Microsoft up when they took WM away from us loyal users and basically gave us something that seems rushed and incomplete.

sinister1 said:
I can see and understand both sides, to me personally WM kicks WP as far as being able to to simple, logical and common stuff vs WP but WP doesn't lock up on you and the battery life seems to be better. But if Windows Phone wants to compete and reallistically wants to be number 3 by 2014 or whatever they are perdicting, they need to wise up and give us back some kind of functionallty; for instance why is it so freaking hard to be able to Bluetooth some one a freaking file when that technology has been around for ages? A cricket phone can do that, why no WP? Microsoft up when they took WM away from us loyal users and basically gave us something that seems rushed and incomplete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I love when those who flame WP7 mention Bluetooth transfer as a key feature. I haven't been to 2005 recently.