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Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...
I was wondering the same thing after watching the press event video, which is why I came here to see reaction.
As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's
It seems MS have built it for the sole purpose of cracking the "consumer" market. Looks incredibly pretty and i'm sure it will "work", however, whether it will be as appealing to the xda-dev community is another question!! A bit too early to say it's the end, but just from viewing the promotional videos, I can see my love for Android growing further!!
windows phone 7 has got me quite excited.. looking fwd to use it come december 2010.
I think you're right that it's just too early to tell. I hope you're right about the registry/hackable comment, though.
I am wondering would Microsoft be so stupid to create almost a totally new OS. If they do, i believe there will some sort of migrator to migrate apps to the new os. However i am seriously disappointed if they decide to remove mutiltask.
6.5.3 will remain alive and well for enterprise and developing markets, so even if we can't port winmo 7 there will still be updates to 6.5. Either way, MS has pretty much destroyed new app development for 6.5, as many of the major players will probably wait to develop exclusively for 7. I'm definately excited about 7 though; in the meantime it looks like android will be your friend if your looking for apps.
I think it will be a new beginning. However, the new SDK will likely be based on WPF or Silverlight, so the .NET knowledge of the current developers can be applied (however, WPF has IMHO a steep learning curve) and some code can be transferred. Game development will likely be based on XNA (you can already create Zune XNA games).
The big question for me is: Is publishing/installation of new applications as easy as it is currently the case? The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added. However, I think that Microsoft will be going a developer-friendly way, because the third party applications will make or brake the OS.
The worst case scenario would be a mandatory marketplace and you have to pay a fee to get your application added.
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That's exactly what's happening...
i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...
I just hope m$ has not gone the apple way blocking all development !
that will be a really really sad day on XDA.
Too early to say.
First few leaks should arrive some months hence.
irdawood said:
As long as there is a registry it hackable... I feel sorry for HTC or cannot customise their phones to have a unique selling point over other OEM's
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Click to collapse
I think you didn't paid attention to what was said in the conference.
They said, on top OEM's can customize it to add their experience to it. So HTC and other can customize it, but not to the extend of WM 6.5's case. That's because to give a consistent experience to us ( users ).
Please don't get into conclusion's without understanding what was said.
well here's a video
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/
yerand said:
Is winmo7 gonna be the end of winmo development here at xda? It's totally new, and its gonna be really hard to port it to existing winmo phones, and its a lot more locked down...
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Click to collapse
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?
Well, it is new, Microsoft stated that it has more restrictions, and its pretty much a brand new os, because microsoft also stated that its built from the ground up, therefore its like porting android to a winmo phone. It has very little of its older winmo roots.
ibsa03 said:
i just hope, that the multi billion dollar companies, make everything in the phone work the way it has to, and not wait till some regular people on this forum turn the phone into a good device.. seriously, i buy a WM knowing that its crap, just cause i know that here on XDA i can fix it and make it how i want it...
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I totally agree with u the reason i bought my htc fuze and sold my nokia phone was because i love how cuztomizeable wm is and even if they become like apple there is always android
But wasnt there supposed to be an OEM version of Windows Mobile 7 that could be customized by third party's such as HTC? From what I saw of the press coverage, we were just seeing the "interface" much like titanium and Touchflo.....but who knows....
semmtexx said:
no dev's have even gotten their hands on this yet. How the heck would you know what's possible with is and what's not?
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It may well be that it is the most easy to crack ever, However, i dobt that
@Microsoft, WHY!!!???! if i wanted an consumer OS, i would of purchased an iBrick
Why not kill 6.6, make 6.9 with the winmo 7 kernal and code in some .NET support and let HTC work it's magic
Badwolve1
for a long time, the older phones (wizard old) have been able to run the newest versions (6.5.3). i think this is gonna end development on those old phones. hopefully we will get it to run on the new phones like the hd2
face it, low level apis and languages are for hobbyists now adays. programming languages like C# are huge. .Net makes it so easy and quick to write applications. that's what professionals use. the amount of applications released will be explosive. go ahead, go to android, it's crappy java, and if you use the native development kit,it compiles against the old instruction set. android has hardly even made a dent in the market. it will never be mainstream,just like linux. whine all you want, but microsoft got a bad rap because of crappy coders who crashed the os all the time. it is no longer a hobbyist OS but a consumer OS.
no matter how easy C# is and everything but sometimes you still need access to low level functionality. I agree it's a good idea to recommend modern languages for development on WP7 or any future OS but I don't think it's alright to completely deny the privileged mode APIs, like they were previously called on WM. It's alright if you need to get special certificates if you want to do such risky things (you need that already on WM6) but it still should be possible after all.
I agree about the Android part of your post. On this board it seems to get hyped quited a lot but in real life sales are not really that groundbreaking like everyone thinks. WM is still a lot stronger. Still, I don't even see any advantages you'd get with a switch to Android!
I'm a .net dev but there's instances where you need the unmanaged APIs to do things. There's lots of gaps in the .net compact framework.
I got a nexus one for me and my wife. I was a WM fanboy but I have to say I will never use a WM device again. I have a zune hd and it sucks at everything. The new browser is worse then WM 6.5. I think WM7 is gonna fail big time. What are you talking about that android is not getting market share? Android will gain 20% more market share in two years.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100209-717900.html
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/android_market_share_doubles_will_overtake_palm_soon.php
http://phandroid.com/2009/11/15/android-stealing-symbian-winmo-market-share/
shep211 said:
I got a nexus one for me and my wife. I was a WM fanboy but I have to say I will never use a WM device again. I have a zune hd and it sucks at everything. The new browser is worse then WM 6.5. I think WM7 is gonna fail big time. What are you talking about that android is not getting market share? Android will gain 20% more market share in two years.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100209-717900.html
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/android_market_share_doubles_will_overtake_palm_soon.php
http://phandroid.com/2009/11/15/android-stealing-symbian-winmo-market-share/
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Noone knows what's going to happen in two years. That prediction was also made before WP7 was announced so it's somewhat meaningless now. Who said the browser is the same one that's in the ZuneHD? The web browser was an afterthought for the ZuneHD and it's a prime feature of WP7. I expect it to be much improved.
RustyGrom said:
Noone knows what's going to happen in two years. That prediction was also made before WP7 was announced so it's somewhat meaningless now. Who said the browser is the same one that's in the ZuneHD? The web browser was an afterthought for the ZuneHD and it's a prime feature of WP7. I expect it to be much improved.
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I have seen all the wm7 videos and its the same os. They said WM7 would not be based off of the zune hd os but it is. Watch the zune hd videos then WM7 videos. Same os and same browser. They are just adding phone support. I preordered my zune hd and was every unhappy with it. Nothing new or better then ipod. The browser has to be the worst browsing experience ever. Cant download podcast from the phone. You have to dock it and load the podcast on the phone. Cant listen to music without headphones. Tons and tons of stuff that makes you think WTF.
Interesting considering the browser IS different, and you other complaints wont be there on a phone.
Its not the same OS, its just they standardizing there UIs.
RAMMANN said:
no matter how easy C# is and everything but sometimes you still need access to low level functionality. I agree it's a good idea to recommend modern languages for development on WP7 or any future OS but I don't think it's alright to completely deny the privileged mode APIs, like they were previously called on WM. It's alright if you need to get special certificates if you want to do such risky things (you need that already on WM6) but it still should be possible after all.
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RustyGrom said:
I'm a .net dev but there's instances where you need the unmanaged APIs to do things. There's lots of gaps in the .net compact framework.
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yes i know we need certain APIs to do certain things,but nobody knows yet what the new framework will be like. who's to say what is limited and what isn't when we don't have any of this info yet.
I completely agree with o2neouzr. Whay are people whining about it when they have no idea what will and won't be included in .NET CF 4?
I've only done a small amount of phone development on WM6 and C# has been fine. My app responds to missed calls and texts when I'm on the motorbike. I recently discussed porting it to the iPhone with a friend. It turns out even really basic stuff like sending a text, knowing if you've missed a call, running with the screen off are all impossible on the iPhone - even with approval from Apple. I reckon we'll be allowed to do a reasonable amount. It'll still be better than the crappy iPhone.
Think of an Operating System like the rule of law in a country; now there is a rumor that the supreme leaders decide to enforce that the only dress code allowed is T-Shirt, of course, the rationals in breadth and depth as in any totalitarian country is only known to the supreme leaders.
"Death to fashion designers!" yelled the fanatics.
"They can't see the simplicity of T-Shirt!" chimed the supporters.
" It is easy to make!!" cried the guards.
" It takes only a minute to paint!!!" said the propagandist.
" It is ready for mass market!!!!" snapped the enforcers to anyone who dare to challenge the new establishment.
"Burn in hell for daring to wear any other dress! T-Shirt is the future! Any one wearing dress is living in the stone age !"
Of course it is hard for concern citizens like we, fashion designers - native developers, to have a decent conversation with this group of people. How can words explain the beauty of our love ones (customers), walking through the crowds of T-Shirts --- in designers' dress. How can we explain the search of excellence, as the way of life, to so many of us, perfecting the art, year after year, to bring out the best of us for the world to see the beauty of free expression.
It is not like that we can't make T-Shirt, it is no-brainer for most of us. The beauty of simplicity is simple but not simpler. A native developers try to achieve simplicity without making things simpler.
Fred23 said:
I completely agree with o2neouzr. Whay are people whining about it when they have no idea what will and won't be included in .NET CF 4?
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It's not really about having the limited stuff of .NET CF in mind and doing PInvoke for really standard issues. It's about the whole architecture of the runtime. can you do DLL injection or hook into another process with .NET? Not at all. DLLs don't even exist there. You understand... we need the native API if we want to do all the funny things. Recent example: On the Omnia2 there's the taskmon service running which is closing applications if you open more than 3 or 4 (!!!!). chainfire guy wrote a tool that injects into the service to stop this nonsense. More examples are the File explorer extensions, Quick menu, XTask etc. You don't need this stuff? Fine! Go get an iphone!
RAMMANN said:
It's not really about having the limited stuff of .NET CF in mind and doing PInvoke for really standard issues. It's about the whole architecture of the runtime. can you do DLL injection or hook into another process with .NET? Not at all. DLLs don't even exist there. You understand... we need the native API if we want to do all the funny things. Recent example: On the Omnia2 there's the taskmon service running which is closing applications if you open more than 3 or 4 (!!!!). chainfire guy wrote a tool that injects into the service to stop this nonsense. More examples are the File explorer extensions, Quick menu, XTask etc. You don't need this stuff? Fine! Go get an iphone!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummmmmmmmmm DLLs do exist in .net. In fact, pretty much the entire .net framework is just a collection of DLLs. Have you ever even written a .net app or any software at all for that matter? It seems your hatred is extremely unfounded.
There likely won't be a file explorer to extend and all of the other things you list get into modifying the UI so those won't be allowed either. They're ugly hacks that shouldn't be needed on any platform. Yea, WinMo needed them to cover up it's many flaws.
You don't need native APIs to do those things necessarily. There just needs to be managed APIs to do them. They won't be allowing it though so it's a moot point.
If you want to completely replace the UI, go get an Anroid phone!
There's a middle ground that they need to find. I feel that's what they're shooting for but it doesn't sound like they're gonna hit it. I'm expecting only a subset of .net CF as even that would allow you to do 'too much' in their mind.
alright I admit I have written bull****. of course there are DLLs in .NET but I rather mean they are handled little different than usual DLLs. So I thought common sense is you call them assemblies instead of DLLs. oh! And yes I have written Windows applications in .NET but always refrained from using it on WM due to performance issues and because it's so incomplete and for all the interesting stuff you have to use PInvoke anyway. Also if you at least had checked the link in my signature before judging then you would have seen that I'm actually writing software for WM. besides that, it's even my daily job to write software for Windows/WM for like... ahm... 12 years now.
RustyGrom said:
There likely won't be a file explorer to extend and all of the other things you list get into modifying the UI so those won't be allowed either. They're ugly hacks that shouldn't be needed on any platform. Yea, WinMo needed them to cover up it's many flaws.
You don't need native APIs to do those things necessarily. There just needs to be managed APIs to do them. They won't be allowing it though so it's a moot point.
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That's the point actually. What I love about WM is that you can easily (or not so easy) hack your way through it and if that's not allowed anymore in a new revision then a lot of fun is taken for me and I guess for "a few more folks" here on XDA. WM like it is with 6.5.x is REALLY comfortable with me and that's no joke! I'm trying to customize and modify it because it's a lot of fun to do so, not because the OS is so bad. Currently I'm running 6.5.x with Sense 2.5 on my Topaz and everything is running really smooth and responsive and I can't complain at all!!
RustyGrom said:
If you want to completely replace the UI, go get an Anroid phone!
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I hate Android! I don't really want to code in Java. And their native API is a joke isn't it? If WP7 isn't suitable anymore (and right now we don't really know for sure) then I have to keep going with the old **** aka WM 6.5.x until I'm old and grey. why should I change OS if there's nothing that matches the customization possibilites of our present OS?
I could understand the frustration for not having full access to native API, full multitasking, etc.
It will be no joy ... no fun ... especially when you simply cannot customize the UI "the way you want" (You can still customize the WP7 start screen).
You cannot express your full creativity.
That is really valid concern.
But ....................................
Could this "new situation of WP7" trigger another kind of creativity?
To the extreme, who would think creating fart application? I know, probably this is a bad example of creativity, but still ... it is kind of creativity.
My point, in whatever situation, people will simply adapt and certain people will excel with their creativity!
Could that be YOU?
RAMMANN said:
I hate Android! I don't really want to code in Java. And their native API is a joke isn't it? If WP7 isn't suitable anymore (and right now we don't really know for sure) then I have to keep going with the old **** aka WM 6.5.x until I'm old and grey. why should I change OS if there's nothing that matches the customization possibilites of our present OS?
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RAMMANN said:
If WP7 isn't suitable anymore (and right now we don't really know for sure) then I have to keep going with the old **** aka WM 6.5.x until I'm old and grey. why should I change OS if there's nothing that matches the customization possibilites of our present OS?
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If I understand this Charlie Kindel (who supposedly is the guy in charge of all this API/SDK stuff), it's not their intention to lock the "fun stuff" out indefinitely. What he's saying is more in the lines of "we want a consistent and logical environment/ecosystem for developers and users, and in order to achieve that, we need to change from the "let's push everything we have out the door" mentality towards "let's make it really good", and this requires serious focused step-by-step approach". They want to start with "consumer application" and hobbyist developers (the latter probably means fart app makers and such), which is understandable because they want to build consumer appeal first. Other categories of developers will be addressed after that.
So, while I don't expect much "fun" you're talking about in WP7, I think this will evolve over time. It's unfortunate that we're not getting things to play with right now, but maybe you won't need to wait until you are old and grey haired. And also maybe we'll really get great APIs/SDK, which will be more useful, consistent and complete than the current incompletely and sometimes incredibly poorly documented mess. Just trying to be positive here.
RAMMANN said:
That's the point actually. What I love about WM is that you can easily (or not so easy) hack your way through it and if that's not allowed anymore in a new revision then a lot of fun is taken for me and I guess for "a few more folks" here on XDA. WM like it is with 6.5.x is REALLY comfortable with me and that's no joke! I'm trying to customize and modify it because it's a lot of fun to do so, not because the OS is so bad. Currently I'm running 6.5.x with Sense 2.5 on my Topaz and everything is running really smooth and responsive and I can't complain at all!!
I hate Android! I don't really want to code in Java. And their native API is a joke isn't it? If WP7 isn't suitable anymore (and right now we don't really know for sure) then I have to keep going with the old **** aka WM 6.5.x until I'm old and grey. why should I change OS if there's nothing that matches the customization possibilites of our present OS?
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Click to collapse
I agree with you. Many people hate WM6.5, I like it. I enjoy the customizability as many others on here do. However, I would also enjoy 'retiring' from the need to do that. It's kind of annoying knowing that the first thing I have to do when I get a new phone is go home and HardSPL it and flash a new ROM. I've heard some of the newer devices are much better out the door (HD2 for example) but haven't seen this for myself.
I don't think the members of this forum are part of Microsoft's target audience for end users. Devs, yea, but not end users. They are shooting for people disenchanted with their iPhone, Android, and more importantly the other 75% of the cell phone market that's still using "feature phones" (aka dumb phones).
It definitely looks like MS is going to lock down much more than WM6.5. Will we still be cooking custom roms? My guess is yes. But your common user will have more restrictions on what apps can and can't do.
I look at this as a new challenge more than anything else.
vangrieg said:
If I understand this Charlie Kindel (who supposedly is the guy in charge of all this API/SDK stuff), it's not their intention to lock the "fun stuff" out indefinitely. What he's saying is more in the lines of "we want a consistent and logical environment/ecosystem for developers and users, and in order to achieve that, we need to change from the "let's push everything we have out the door" mentality towards "let's make it really good", and this requires serious focused step-by-step approach". They want to start with "consumer application" and hobbyist developers (the latter probably means fart app makers and such), which is understandable because they want to build consumer appeal first. Other categories of developers will be addressed after that.
So, while I don't expect much "fun" you're talking about in WP7, I think this will evolve over time. It's unfortunate that we're not getting things to play with right now, but maybe you won't need to wait until you are old and grey haired. And also maybe we'll really get great APIs/SDK, which will be more useful, consistent and complete than the current incompletely and sometimes incredibly poorly documented mess. Just trying to be positive here.
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That's a good way to look at it. I just hope that they don't get too restrictive from the start. I think the .net CF would be a good starting point that they should add onto but it almost sounds like they're only picking and choosing pieces from it. If we've got the whole .net CF (maybe minus a few things they don't want us doing) I would be fine with that.
RustyGrom said:
I agree with you. Many people hate WM6.5, I like it. I enjoy the customizability as many others on here do. However, I would also enjoy 'retiring' from the need to do that. It's kind of annoying knowing that the first thing I have to do when I get a new phone is go home and HardSPL it and flash a new ROM. I've heard some of the newer devices are much better out the door (HD2 for example) but haven't seen this for myself.
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Click to collapse
I have used my Topaz with the 6.1 factory ROM for at least 2-3 months. At this time I couldn't complain. I didn't face any issues. I only started to flash new ROMs when 6.5 and later issues were available...
About retiring... I don't think you will. The need to immediately flash a new WP7 device is always given. Just imagine you got a new phone from a Telecom contract and you got all your hubs in pink...
RustyGrom said:
I think the .net CF would be a good starting point that they should add onto but it almost sounds like they're only picking and choosing pieces from it. If we've got the whole .net CF (maybe minus a few things they don't want us doing) I would be fine with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not much a developer (it's not my profession, I just did a couple of things for fun), but, apart from performance issues which can more or less be improved in the new OS, I've seen two types of limitations with .Net CF on WM 6.x: it's been nearly impossible to make nice UI without awful performance, and there are big gaps in terms of accessing "low-level" and sometimes not so low-level stuff and hence need for PInvoke.
The first issue will probably be addressed by Silverlight and, possibly, better built-in UI controls and such. The second will probably be partly addressed by OS-level push, "live feed" APIs, which sometimes might help overcome the limitations of SNAPI. The obvious question marks are things like non-SNAPI event handling such as hardware key processing, power management, device IO etc. Theoretically, this could be done in an environment such as .Net, why not, but not in its current incarnation of CF 3.5. If they added functionality to .Net, it could make life easier for devs.
Obviously though, some things just aren't realistic in managed code, so no alternative browsers/video players for us apart from shells over MS engines (which means no .mkv support if it's not built into the OS already). It could be possible, though, if they're serious in trying to do things right this time, that they want to create those APIs/SDK together with devs. Say, it would be an awesome, albeit slow, path to sit down with CoreCodec and build a piece of the SDK on a specific case, understanding and overcoming the challenges step by step. Don't know if we can hope to get that kind of attitude though...
It's good to use .NET languages, but it is limited, at least on CompactFramework, so it's impossible to use ONLY .NET: you have to use unmanaged code for creating some things that .NET doesn't allow to.
vangrieg said:
I'm not much a developer (it's not my profession, I just did a couple of things for fun), but, apart from performance issues which can more or less be improved in the new OS, I've seen two types of limitations with .Net CF on WM 6.x: it's been nearly impossible to make nice UI without awful performance, and there are big gaps in terms of accessing "low-level" and sometimes not so low-level stuff and hence need for PInvoke.
The first issue will probably be addressed by Silverlight and, possibly, better built-in UI controls and such. The second will probably be partly addressed by OS-level push, "live feed" APIs, which sometimes might help overcome the limitations of SNAPI. The obvious question marks are things like non-SNAPI event handling such as hardware key processing, power management, device IO etc. Theoretically, this could be done in an environment such as .Net, why not, but not in its current incarnation of CF 3.5. If they added functionality to .Net, it could make life easier for devs.
Obviously though, some things just aren't realistic in managed code, so no alternative browsers/video players for us apart from shells over MS engines (which means no .mkv support if it's not built into the OS already). It could be possible, though, if they're serious in trying to do things right this time, that they want to create those APIs/SDK together with devs. Say, it would be an awesome, albeit slow, path to sit down with CoreCodec and build a piece of the SDK on a specific case, understanding and overcoming the challenges step by step. Don't know if we can hope to get that kind of attitude though...
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Yup. I'm expecting a 'revolution' of sorts in the UI standpoint. Like I've stated previously, it sucks trying to make a good, finger-friendly UI. XNA will make game/3d creation a breeze. Silverlight will be awesome for more traditional style UIs. I'm just wondering how high level and low level they'll get. For example, if I wanted to make an app that looked exactly like the main UI of the phone would I be able to just create a panel object, give it the text for the title, text and controls on that panel, and it will take care of the placement, input control, etc? Or what if I want to go the opposite route and create a UI of my own, will I be able to do that? I'm expecting things like button inputs to be provided. It would be crazy for them not to. That's part of the benefit of standardizing the buttons, they can easily bubble those up to devs.
The leaked docs show that native APIs and unmanaged code will be available to an extent but only to OEMs and carriers. I'm sure if people make enough noise they'll back down and approve apps that make use of that for others as well if they show the need. Microsoft's corporate culture traditionally hasn't been as 'religious' as Apple's and is more willing to back down on things if pushed.
Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time
Maybe next time, punctuation. Maybe next time...
Personally, I'm in the 'Buy a phone for what it can do now, not what I hope it might be able to do in the future' school of thought.
Sure, no WP7 is a disappointment, but if you own an HD2 (as I did for a while), you got what was being promised. For me, it was the lack of a keyboard that made me get a TP2, but the HD2 is still one helluva phone.
No announcement has been made. I'm gonna laugh if the HD2 ends up getting an update.
bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms
I would be glad to take your HTC HD2 off your hands
The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)
RAMMANN said:
The forum would be way better without such threads. But on the flip side it's funny to see how stupid some people are (sorry but it's the truth)
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Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)
kel16harris said:
bye bye cry baby, i swear you guys crack me up. how can you be upset when you bought the phone without anything being announced if you bought it because YOU THOUGHT it was getting an update thats your own fault, ms didnt tell you ANYTHING. and the hd2 is gonna have wp7s soon enough, maybe not officially but who cares, custom roms>>>>>>official roms
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Click to collapse
It's not so much the lack of an upgrade that's the problem, it's the combination of that plus WP7 being incompatible with Windows Mobile software. That's one thing nobody was predicting a few months ago, and it means that there is no longer any reason for a commercial software company to continue working on any Windows Mobile project - see, for example, Adobe's decision to scrap FlashPlayer on WinMo.
To say "your phone won't get an OS upgrade" is one thing, but to say "your phone won't get an upgrade, and incidentally we also neglected to mention that your phone's current OS would cease to be a viable platform for commercial software about three months after you buy it" is something else.
And it is not by any means certain that there will be custom ROMs based on WP7.
leeuwtjevanjuda said:
Indeed. Im mad they are not releasing Iphone OS to my HD2.
(eventually the chefs will be making a version for the HD2, so come on.)
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I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.
apreichner said:
I doubt it. The reason chefs have been able to make WM6.5 for older devices is because it is still based off of the same kernel as 5.0-6.1. If you are familiar with cooking ROMs for older devices, you would realize that we are still using 6.0 drivers on all of these 6.5 ROMs. Once the kernel changes, however, those drivers will most-likely be useless.
And yeah, buying the HD2 probably wasn't the best idea.
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It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.
RAMMANN said:
It's also possible to run 6.5 on the Himalaya, which is originally based on PPC 2003 = different wince kernel.
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But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
But the Himalaya still got WM5, so that still means it got WinCE 5.2 kernel one way or another. Once it got a 5.2 kernel, it can run anything from WM5 all the way up to WM6.5.x
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alright that finally explains it. Didn't know they got an official WM5 release.
The HTC HD2 is an impressive device even without WP7 As for upgrading it, there will be a debate but, they will chose to release a HD3 instead. Feel free to sign the petition though,lol http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/hd2windowsphone7/
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=5475&tag=content;col1
I'm quite on the contrary
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.
it's so true ....
chassit said:
Ironically a handful of days ago I made similar decision. Except for that I was really, really pissed off by Android and decided to switch back to WinMo. So I got a HD2.
Now I'm (again) having:
- The capability to play almost every media format on my phone
- *REAL* GPS navigation suites
- Serious, polished, and visually attractive games, by lots
- Proper tool to manage my personal (2 of them) and business mail accounts, with attachment, reply record and everything
- Excellent applications to read *AND EDIT* Word and Excel files. It's vital to have this as a translator who frequently has to work on-the-go.
- PDB, PRC, CHM, LIT, TXT, RTF, DOC, DOCX, HTML, PDF in short, whatever document format I may need to read. And the tools to do this are generally extremely polished
- The freedom of setting the phone on true mute mode once and for all, unlike on certain idiot OS where you set the thing on mute, all system notifications get silenced, while everything else from media player to games continue to sing how ever loud it likes
And what I no long have:
- Don't have to pick from a thousand not so different but frequently buggy cooked ROMs
- Don't have to flash my phone like once per week to keep up with new version of cooked ROM franchise
- Don't have to comb through 10K apps, filter 90% of them (crapware swarm), and pray "God give me some actually useful app please, amen"
Anyway, I'm not sure why so many people chanting around "Android is much, much by the outdated WinMo". I believe that the value of a smartphone is reflected by what it can achieve. WinMo so far is still much better than Android on satisfying my professional and entertainment needs. Yep its UI is no match for Android's (at least less colorful). But I can't care less about that. Beautiful or not, get the job done first.
As to WP7 update. Well, I'm having great faith on XDA. Even if Microsoft and HTC decide to screw HD2 owners big time, chances are pretty good the magnificent young men (and women) here can make an unofficial update happen. It doesn't really matter for me if this is not happening. Right now I'm having everything I need already, and I'm happy. WP7 is only a plus.
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+1
That’s what comes to my mind when I think Windows Mobile vs. Android
Actually I really don't care if Windows Phone 7 doesn’t get an "official" release for HD2.... Its current state is a "Solid Windows Mobile 6.5 PocketPC" which is exactly what was intended for it to be.
enjoy your little crappy java machine LOL that'll show em.
nucentury08 said:
Im done guys with Wm my Hd2 is up for sale no update for hardware that can run Wp7 they can have wp7 my hd2 is up for sale and i just picked up my new Nexus one just flashed the new HTC Desire Rom running at 1.3GHZ Im happy Hello Android mabey next time WM mabey next time
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"mabey" go to school and learn to spell next time? Just as a suggestion..
For Sale
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL
leba837 said:
My Xperia X1 is for sale as I have found out that it won't run Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition. Im also going to buy a Nexus One as it has a better chance of running Windows Mobile Phone 8.1 Service Pack 3 Turbo Edition first! LOL
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I PM'd you with my offer
I have an HD2 and before Android was fully ported over there were tons of Windows Mobile 6.5 ROMS to choose from. I am planning on selling my HD2 and possibly getting a HD7 but first wanted to get some input from you all. Right now I am running WP7 on my HD2 but really want to get an actual phone that runs WP7. So before I jump in to the WP7 scene I was wondering where do you all see the WP7 development in the short future? Mainly with custom ROMS and apps. Would you say it will probably follow the same path as 6.5 because as of now it looks pretty bad? Thanks guys!
When they make it possible to do real development/testing without shelling out $99/yr, I'll look into it.
Microsoft's development tools are second to none, but the API situation is just unacceptable right now. Marketplace is full of redundant crap, and that largely because the base platform is not done yet.
It really depends on what you want to develop, though...
N8ter said:
When they make it possible to do real development/testing without shelling out $99/yr, I'll look into it.
Microsoft's development tools are second to none, but the API situation is just unacceptable right now. Marketplace is full of redundant crap, and that largely because the base platform is not done yet.
It really depends on what you want to develop, though...
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Mango development kits are going out to developers next month. You do know that, right?
Jim Coleman said:
Mango development kits are going out to developers next month. You do know that, right?
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I'm fully aware, and while that helps develop some apps, it won't help users get them on their phones because they won't have Mango for another ~month.
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
Also, next month != now Especially for a bunch of APIs that shouldn't have been missing to begin with, Lol.
The OP asked about the future, so clearly, next month is part of the near future, right? You just need to bring your pessimistic venom in here too, huh.
To the OP, as far as ROMs go, WP7 wasn't designed with that in mind, and to be honest, you really don't need custom ROMs, as they really wouldn't add anything. The UI, as I'm sure even people like N8ter would agree, is second to none in terms of efficiency, and with time, the features will greatly increase (like the Mango live tiles, the concept of Nokia 3D tiles). Where in WM6.5 we NEEDED to flash to make the phone usable, we don't need that with WP7.
As for apps, as of now, the apps are pushing the allowed apis to their limits for the most part. Microsoft was pretty shelled with their apis on the initial release, and that was due to missing functionality. With the Mango api, you'll see a slew of apps hit the marketplace, big named apps such as Skype to be more specific as the platform will flash much more impressive features. In the next month and a half to two months we'll get an idea as to what ideas will start forming with these new apis, but look for the releases to be huge.
Games are about to take off in an even bigger way too, with big names like Hydro Thunder and Angry Birds starting to come out, and I see more coming with time, and available features.
With that being said, I suggest you try the phone out for yourself, as it isn't for everybody. If you're somebody who insists on having a registry editor just *because* you feel the need to look at one, then this isn't for you. Or if you feel you need full device control for absolutely no reason, this isn't for you. But if you enjoy a phone that just works, and does what it's currently capable of extremely well, then you've got a winner.
N8ter said:
I'm fully aware, and while that helps develop some apps, it won't help users get them on their phones because they won't have Mango for another ~month.
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
Also, next month != now Especially for a bunch of APIs that shouldn't have been missing to begin with, Lol.
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dreamspark...
Thanks guys for the info! Like I said, I am running WP7 on my HD2 right now because the whole Android hype wore out on me. I am loving it right now but as updates are getting harder and taking longer to port over I just see it easier to get an actual WP7 phone. This is exactly what I wanted to hear since I was traumatized with the lack WM 6.5 apps, especially good ones.
So from what I read it looks like in the next couple of weeks and months WP7 is definitely going to take off. So long Android!!
Wp7 is pretty stable for everyday use. Its just missing some features, but to a normal everyday usage you won't miss them. Even with the nodo update I still don't use copy and paste. But if you're into total control and customization you should stick with an Android phone.
Sent from my HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I don't think we need custom roms.
All they did was speed up the system etc. They were needed on WM because it sucked and on Android to remove bloatware, custom firmwares, speed it up etc.
WP7 doesn't need Speeding Up and there's no Bloatware or anything like that to remove. I don't see what a custom rom would achieve.
i think there is no realy need for curstom roms, too. There is a need for some missing features which will come and i dont think they can be done on homebrew way.
App situation at the moment is a bit limited and with mango this will get much better (for example -> photosynth), so i think, the real app "explosion" at wp7 market comes with mango (and nokia market start)
My opinion
domineus said:
dreamspark...
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I'm not a college student. Dreamspark doesn't exist to me.
N8ter said:
Nor will it help me use my device for development without paying a $99 premium (the walled garden model is a bit disingenuous to developers, IMO).
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Better get used to it because this won't change. Apple has been doing this with great success so I don't see this going away.
DaFlake said:
Better get used to it because this won't change. Apple has been doing this with great success so I don't see this going away.
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Click to collapse
I don't expect it to go away. I just code for Android instead.
I have hd2 and Im so so so happy with it but here I come to my next thot what next????wm6.5 is dead, android is not for me wp7 ok but ugly here comes question IS IT POSSIBLE TO BRING SENSE 2,5 ON WP7 PHONES imagine wp7 system and beauty of cht on home screen FANTASTIC.So my question to all wp7 devs and all ppl there would you like this combination on your wp7 unit do you think its good or not and most important is someone out there who could make this working??????????
marko987 said:
I have hd2 and Im so so so happy with it but here I come to my next thot what next????wm6.5 is dead, android is not for me wp7 ok but ugly here comes question IS IT POSSIBLE TO BRING SENSE 2,5 ON WP7 PHONES imagine wp7 system and beauty of cht on home screen FANTASTIC.So my question to all wp7 devs and all ppl there would you like this combination on your wp7 unit do you think its good or not and most important is someone out there who could make this working??????????
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no...just no..
See above... Wp7 did awesome to get away from the trainwreck UIs that plague android and winmo. They have created the single cleanest and best looking OS in doing so. Sense would just much it up and I'm glad HTC doesn't have that much access because if I had to see that stupid flip clock I'd likely leave my phone for dead.
The only Sense UI aspect that *could* be done is to utilise tiles. I've seen mock-ups of this somewhere. However, we don't have that much flexibility with the tiles - i.e. no double tiles for the flippy clock and no direct way (without push implementation) to change what's on the tiles.
z33dev33l said:
See above... Wp7 did awesome to get away from the trainwreck UIs that plague android and winmo. They have created the single cleanest and best looking OS in doing so. Sense would just much it up and I'm glad HTC doesn't have that much access because if I had to see that stupid flip clock I'd likely leave my phone for dead.
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ok m8 but we are not same some of us dont like that simple square ugly look of windows phone.THATS WHY i STARTED THIS TO SEE IF WE CAN USE WP7 ON OUR WAY.Soon hd2 will be old tec and we gona need something new.I love 6.5 because I can costum everything on it icons,sliders,look,levels I started to make my own stuff in photoshop and I dont like that stupid iphone clon os everything locked and all about money.I hate iphone but if have to chose ios or wp7 how is now ios is more OK for me
and yea I forgot 6.5 without sense looks nicer then wp7 and if you dont like flip clock no problem go little in 6.5 threads and look what those fantastic devs done of 6.5 IF SOME ONE OF THEM READ THIS ,,,,TY SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU GUYS FOR MAKING 6.5 STILL ALIVE
marko987 said:
ok m8 but we are not same some of us dont like that simple square ugly look of windows phone.I love 6.5 because I can costum everything on it icons,sliders,look levels I started to make my own stuff in photoshop and I dont like that stupid iphone clon os everything locked and all about money.I hate iphone but if have to chose ios or wp7 how is now ios is more OK for me
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Click to collapse
if your perogative is customization then you are on the wrong OS. Wp7 is a completelnew oS and is not an extension of windows mobile. The fact that it's locked down does not make it an iPhone clone and I must say, you're either trolling or really showing your ass here. Sense won't happen, you would have to hack the phone extensively, get htcs code, convert it to the proper format, unlock APIs that don't exist to make a tile that is fully live, and pretty much build it from scratch all with the potential lawsuit from HTC for doing so. That's just for that hideous clock. The next option would be to port android or wm6.5 onto your wp7 device but that's counter-intuitive at best and with winmo likely impossible. Either way, you're out of luck.
Android would be your best bet, you can customise it to look how you want AND HTC devices will obviously have sense. Even if sense could be done on WP7 as you dont like the OS itself its pointless as eventually you will have to deal with some aspects of it. And if you are happy living entirely within the sense environment again, an android device with sense is the solution.
Having thought about it, you could create an app - not a true UI like Sense.
You wouldn't suffer from the same problems, it'd be completely customizable and it could be instant resume...
Sure, there'd still be problems - i.e. you couldn't have shortcuts to apps etc. Oh and it probably wouldn't get into the Marketplace if it looked too much like Sense, so you'd have to sideload it.
Casey
well all I can do is wait and hope that roomers about htc OS is truth hope they will make something good and nice looking in one,or hope that my hd2 will run good couple of years more lool
buy an android/winmo phone next time
lol m8 I have rafpignas disareHD rom on my sd card just for games and browsing (flash 10,1)have flash 10,1 on wim mob too but not that god like on android