Related
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks. Terabyte SDXC cards are on the way and WP7 buyers are stuck with built in 8-32GB. And you have no thumb drive mode and no SD card to take out and load files on it.
No copy and paste
No, you are not dreaming to live in 2007. It really is 2010 and WP7 really has no copy&paste. Is this ridiculous or what?
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
WP7 is complete FAIL
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You are from Europe, and noone but European citizen will understand this statement, imho(y know what i mean...i think).
I do. Although wm died for me with 6.5, wm7 have beaten everything i could imagine as succesor of 6.x.
WM7 is just death of pda's. They should name it TwittmarketplaceBS.
But let me be honest - people wanted another iphone, and they WILL HAVE another iphone.
We can stay away from that...nothing more...
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad
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This is just because lack of BRAIN, not multitasking problem.
That's why iphonelike bs is ONLY option for 'em.
Shame, there will be no solutions for thinking people soon.
I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to email files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way somehow. I think it's OK otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM. WM's fate is death for most people. Even for me, I've been using WM for yeeears, but for me it feels slow, dated, and yet powerful but at the end I end using the dialer, the picture explorer, and messaging system.
I have a ZuneHD, I love its interface, speed and simplicity; and it has a basic but enough multitasking capability. According to some videos that I've seen, I've noticed that the multitasking capabilities are even better in WM7.
About the SD Card... 8gb is enough for most people, and this is the smallest storage size that the new Windows mobile phone will have. The customizations... I'm sorry but most of the themes out there are [email protected], and I even consider that HTC interface is all bloated and slow. I'm sure there will be some customizations in WM7, it's just matter of time to figure out the way to do so.
The good thing, is that you have many more options like the Android, the iPhone or even Nokia, which new OS looks good enough to compete with all the new competitors.
sm3rtlag3l said:
I will stay away. But is is sad because now I have less phones to choose from because all phones with WP7 are already ruled out from my wishlist.
Why is that that Americans buy locked down stuff like iPhone?! Are they masochists?! Nobody in the world that is not a masochist can seriously want a phone where you have to wmail files to yourself because it is the only method to put them on the phone!?
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All I know is that my 4 y.o. pda with PHONE MODULE is working ok.
Sry, cannot answer your question...do not try to understand US citizens..waste of time, imho.
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
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well, dude, PDA was not phone, but personal assistant(you know, computer ,not iphonelikebs) and it WAS ok, then iphone rose from **** and idea wanished.
All about that.
g'night guys.
daniel_rh said:
Times are changing... The iPhone was the first step and it looks like it was the right step... Nokia, Android, Windows are going the same way. I think it's ok otherwise WM7 will become a mess like the old WM
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Click to collapse
No Nokia Symbian and Android and also Palm webOS are not locked down ****. Only WP7 and iPhone are.
And also Android and Symbian^3 have very good UIs too so it is not necessary to lock them down to make it easy to use.
And even multitasking can be very easy to use, like on Palm webOS and Nokia Symbian^3.
Hardware base specs is good for the user experience but missing features and censorship is always bad. Apple started that **** but they were lucky because they had the only good UI so people bought their phone nevertheless and now years later MS copies them completely.
But today it is not enough because everyone now has good UIs so features like file system access make the difference. Plus there are still all the power users and enterprises they are many as well (and it is not necessary to be a power user to benefit from those features - using one's brain is enough).
sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
No file system access means
a) you can not use it as USB thumb drive
b) you can not share files with different computers
c) there is no file downloads from web and no useful ftp clients and similar apps because they are useless without fsa
d) you can not open files with different apps unless maybe you email them to yourself, which is complicated but is the common way to get files on iPhones and it will also be like that crap on WP7
No SD cards
I hope I don't have to explain why that sucks.
No multitasking
People always talk crap like multitasking makes phones slow and makes battery life bad but really with a bit of thinking multitasking can be implemented in ways that do not have any bad effects at all and it even speeds things up because there is no loading times and of course push notifications also hurt battery life.
Plus there is lots of things that are not possible without multitasking. Say byebye to GPS tracking and stuff.
Marketplace censorship
They say it will be "objective" but everyone knows that is crap talk just look at current WM6.5 policies they are the same censorship as in Apple AppStore.
No native coding and no deep customization
Say byebye to apps that let you customize buttons or replace built in apps or let you adjust any advanced settings.
It is for sure that MS will not include all settings that users may need and there is no way users can change anything that is not in settings by default, because there is no file system or registry access for apps.
All the mentioned things make the user experience worse. Emailing everything to yourself sucks it's complicated and it is also complicated to have quick looks at info inside apps without multitasking and much more problems because of the stupid limitations.
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
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Click to collapse
I think we should think the other way round, look how iphone is popular with its easy to use GUI and still its locked.
Most ppl are not techh savvy as us who loves to install cabs etc. People want out of the box experience.
So when a lay man (in tech terms) asks for a smartphone help, I suggest him iphone as it can do most of the task which it desined to no hangs etc.. Now I can suggest wm7 device for sure....
But wait whats the point of having a Windows phone if I cant customize... its not for me... first wp7 and then no wp7 upgrade in HD2 has made me not to buy any smartphone..
my 37 $ ***kia phone which I brought temporarily whin I lost touch viva... is doing a nice job... with 1020 mah battery , reminders, wireless fm, standard organigers ,,basic spreadsheet , notes...
Locked nature of WP7 has lost my in Interest in smartphones. I was like suggesting every1 of WM advantages....
WM sucked coz only on crap hardware and GUI.... and HTC fones saved its saved still it have 15 % share in smartphone OS.
MS is not sure where it want sto go......
WP7 is a complete pass for me. I don't need 1TB or 2TB storage. Hell my 16GB Zune HD is only 1GB full. Being an avid fan of Xbox live gaming, Outlook (Exchange) and facebook, this phone is a win win win.
Remember people. It's made for the majority (non-geeks) not minority (geeks).
Microsoft has stated that there will be a way to distribute applications outside of marketplace (for enterprise mainly). I'm sure we will be able to use this to our advantage for all the apps we want to get from here. They are basically putting in a backdoor asking for us to open it cause they know the techys want that opening. Now as long as we can figure out how to get access to the file system we will have no more issues. Maybe they just put in minimal restrictions to protect the normal EU but keep it easy for us. That second part is speculation only though.
Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumb downed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Window mobile's customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers. Hopefully with it being a series they have an actual smartphone edition.
wp7 will be a sucess. Why would you want a mini PC based UI, the PC UI is 30 years old..and for one a phone is a different device, why not take a different route? Half the hacks for winmo6X are too improve and and even make use of the devices hardware/software better,..wp7 doesnt have that..or is it needed. The other half(customizing) won't be needed since the UI has information across every inch of the screen, why waste screen space w/ a desktop like home screen on a 3 inch screen?
sm3rtlag3l said:
No file system access:
To me WP7 is a complete FAIL. It can not compete to anything except for iPhone. I totally hate Apple and iPhone but I hope they kill WP7 so that MS realize how they ****ed up WP7.
I don't know why but in US, iPhone is a lot more popular and there is no Symbian. There WP7 can fight against iPhone.
But Symbian is the world leader and it is also very open, like Android and they have a new release soon, Symbian^3 with full visual multitasking (like Palm Pre) and multitouch and all that.
WP7 can not compete with that outside US and it can not compete with Android anywhere.
Sorry for grammar mistakes, there are probably a lot in that long text
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am with you on all that. It seems that Symbian will be the only Mobile OS that is actually OPEN and, without a doubt the most efficient one. Android and Win CE are hardware hungry, and that is why one of them (android) eats it's battery when multitasking and the other one won't even have it because it will "compromise" the end user experiance. What they really mean by that is "we need 2ghz CPU and 1 gb ram to run 4 programs at the same time" until then, take that "save state" BS that apple has been selling you for years already and be happy.
No native coding is completely FAIL
No native coding is completely FAIL
egmkang said:
No native coding is completely FAIL
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Click to collapse
why
Hi,
I wish i could say i completely disagree but unfortunately I think you're totally right :-(
first I was not convinced with the new user interface which is imho very ugly.But the announcements of today are the final stroke for me ! Windows Phone 7 is no more than a dumb phone with app support. The latest versions of winmo 6.5.x were really heading in the right direction I think and now microsoft is breaking everything with windows phone 7.Now I'm sure that the future of windows mobile for me is windows mobile itself ! no windows phone series for me ! Everything I hate about apple, microsoft just copied into windows phone 7. this really is not for me. Thank you M. Microsoft ! I'm so disappointed !
Thomas
Slow
havox22 said:
why
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Click a button , then you can get a sleep
egmkang said:
Click a button , then you can get a sleep
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?
havox22 said:
i thought they said that silverlight & XNA would be hardware accelerated, im no dev & know nothing of it but would it still be slow, cuz some of the things they demoed didnt look slow, but besides slowness what are the other drawbacks?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.
egmkang said:
But C# runs more slowly than Native code,and C# has a big runtime called CLR and a lot of libs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol what you just said means nothing to me i just told you i have know knowledge of any of that but thanks for trying to explain, nvm about explaining it ill go read a book on it, maybe bing it
il be sticking with the hd2 il be buying next week
only worry i have is i doubt we will get much more developed for 6.5 from now on :/
Below is just my opinion, and take it as such.
Windows 7 dissapoints me beyond belief. In fact, teverything about it is the "worst case scenario".
<rant>
1. Home page.. I can sum it up in "WTF". The home page that takes up about 80% of the screen (so even big screens look gimped, small and shifted to the side), with a huge area on right and up completely wasted for nothing. Ugly plain-colored squares, with no design consistency (big, small, long, tall) with pieces of information that make no sense.
2. Social networking - as for me, I really don't give a flying turd about my neighbor's ugly kid drawing an image of a bird on the wall with his drool. Nor do I care that much about viewing hundreds of pictures of my friend visiting his grandma. Thanks for covering my home screen with that.
3. Xbox - I don't even have an xbox, nor do I plan to buy one. Neither do most of the business-oriented people who buy a PDA. And even if I did, would I really be so obsessed about my "avatar" or "points" or whatever they use, that I need it on my home page?
4. Emailing - the heart of a PDA. For some people, even more important than the calling itself. By looking at the presentation videos 7's email system is complete trash. It gives you no real "sense" for the inbox, there is no good view to browse your emails properly. Swiping through pages to see "flagged" "unread" on different screens creates a feeling that you're not getting the whole picture, and you're missing stuff. Besides, it has no good integration with contacts that HTC's Sense provides pretty darn well.
5. Interface in general - animation effects blow. They are kind-of OK for today's standards, but when 7 is released, they will already be boring and plain. They are not looking forward, the "flow" of it is already outdated and will be completely destroyed by any new interface that Android or especially Apple will no-doubt deliver in near future. Besides, how awesome it is to see parts of words all the time? "Peop" turns into "ople", so if you slide left-and-right real fast, you can actually see a whole word..... freaking idiotic.
6. Customization... I'm just speechless. This is the only thing that I could raise as WM's, perhaps, only advantage over Android and iPhone. Now they are officially going over to the Apple's way of treating customers like money-packed down-syndrome drooling kids that fall into a seizure when they hear words "cab" or "tweak". After hanging in xda-developers for so long, and writing my own stuff for the PDA, this alone is way more than enough to make me never even look at WM devices again.
7. "Copy and paste" and "multitasking".... I cannot believe that there is even a controversy over WM device having those 2 features... I don't even know what else to say about this. Insane.
Microsoft is obviously a huge Apple fanboy now. They are accepting their market strategies and their development practices and are scared ****less to look ahead and develop something brilliant.
At this point, with current info, WM7 is nothing more than a bad, extremely poorly designed iPhone interface mod. It's already outdated, already looks inefficient, boring and just waiting to be forgotten. Heck, age-old HTC Home plugin looks way better than WM7, and is actually more useful for everyday tasks.
</rant>
Flame away.
Sadly I couldn't agree more... I had been waiting for the mytical complete revamping of the Windows Mobile OS, and when the first real info came out in Spain, I was stoked by what they were presenting (although I couldn't understand the oddly offset homescreen squares)... This week has been nothing but disappointment after disappointment It seems they took all the bad plays out of the iphone playbook (which apple has mostly since corrected) and decided to repeat them. I was hoping for an windows 'iphone' that righted all the wrongs of Apple:
-Controlled Interfaces (both in Syncronizing information with PC and in application installs)
-Real Copy and Paste
-File System
-Use as a USB flash Drive when connected to computer
-Removeable media
Windows Mobile, was ugly and slow, but useful once you knew it. I just feel now that this will be pretty, but no better than a 1G iphone
i dont disagree with any of your points
Yes, I also agree. Microsoft has just threw out everything, that was keeping Windows Mobile different, usable and customizable. I use copy&paste, multitasking and today plugins every day and I can't live without it. I won't use Windows Phone 7, I'd better wait if somebody makes a mobile phone running full desktop Windows (I think it will be someday, now we have HD2 with 1GHz CPU and we are also able to boot Ubuntu on HTC devices).
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around. I bet in a few years, Android will become the NEW Windows Mobile (and I mean that in a bad way )
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around.
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
DarkDvr said:
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
WhyBe said:
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, in BEST case scenario (for MS), that's what will happen. However, for me, that's wishful thinking.
Will there be WM7 hacks? Yeah, of course. Question is, how easy/available/useful they will be. WM6 platform, even with all its deficiencies, is a nice and easy platform to tweak/expand. So far, WM7 looks to be complete opposite of that (just look at their idea of branding and marketplace), and few hacks that will be released won't make up for anything. Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
DarkDvr said:
Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
WhyBe said:
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
DarkDvr said:
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than endlessly Googling to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
WhyBe said:
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than Googling for an hour to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
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Click to collapse
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
DarkDvr said:
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
WhyBe said:
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
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Click to collapse
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
DarkDvr said:
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
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Click to collapse
Well, we don't know what's truly under the hood of WP7 yet. We know it has multitasking, it is just highly restricted. Copy and paste can be implemented within the app (MS'es alternative to C&P seem pretty slick though). I don't see WP7 as a blatant copy of Apple, MS just acknowledged some winning points of the iPhone platform and followed suit and improved upon it (that's smart business actually). I think MS concept of the OS is far more advanced than what iPhone delivers. I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es. Android sort of reminds me of WM.
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. Even HTC Sense "broke" alot of the things I was used to in the standard WM interface (MS Voice Command and PhonEx just didn't work properly or consistently, for example). God only knows what would "break" if I installed some other WM shell.
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't share yours though:
WhyBe said:
I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es.
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I don't see anything that's "new style" about it. Cut words, ugly squares, "pushable" buttons look identical to the labels, which creates confusion.. etc etc.
WhyBe said:
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. ...
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Click to collapse
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
WhyBe said:
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
WhyBe said:
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
WhyBe said:
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Openness of current WM platform is about the only plus it has, not its drawback. I think that's pretty much established.
Besides, as I've said before, you don't have to pick between a smooth experience and openness for customization. WM7 could have an excellent setup right from the box, if you like what they've made, even maybe the one they have now. Nobody says that at the same time it cannot have support for developer's imagination. Nobody besides MS's analytics who decided that copying Apple will bring them a big buck. Honestly, no, it won't.
chiks19018 said:
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>.< That's not the point.
DarkDvr said:
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All consumer cars have the exact same interface. Steering, acceleration and brakes...
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software. It's always worked for me. Now the third-party stuff...that's a different story. If things like social networking and cloud computing are implemented on the OS level (instead in the app), it will be easier for third party apps to work in conjunction. Bing on the OS level will be a lot better than a Bing app. Same for Voice Command (if MS uses it).
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This philosophy is failing WM and Android.
WhyBe said:
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you've never used Windows ME or anything before Windows 98.
Let's just agree to disagree =)
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical. people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
For Example:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
jacobgong said:
And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
jacobgong said:
people argue against it because it doesn't have functions they don't use in practice but as excuses for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
jacobgong said:
-Multitasking.
I may be a new WM user, I do use multitasking, but ONLY because applications in WM takes ages to load. Like EBPocket that I simply leave it running in the background all the time, because it takes like 2 minutes to load. IF it starts instantly, like iPhone apps, there is no reason for me to have it running in the background. At the end of the day, how often do you truly have to use multitasking? 2 other simple features will eliminate the need of multitasking almost completely: saving previous state before quitting and instant launch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
jacobgong said:
Plus, I think some obvious multitasking support exists in may devices, like music playback in the background. Maybe your third-party program won't work like that in WM7, but why do you need one anyway if the default one doesn't suck in the first place?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
jacobgong said:
-Marketplace
So far, the only useful and working apps I have been able to find are:
Google Maps
EBPocket
Opera Mobile 10
Yea... that's about it.... and both of them are available on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
jacobgong said:
Oh actually, I'm sorry. there are a huge number of other useful things, like file managers, registry tweakers, bug fixes abd ect....
But wait, why on earth should we use these anyway? Maybe it's cause most WM devices have problems and we have to fix them in place of the developers?
The WM systems to me, is just a big pile of mess. When I download a program, not only do I NOT know if it will work, I don't know if it is compatible with my other stuffs, I don't know what side effects it will have (which WM programs tend to have a lot), and I don't even know my device will boot after I install it.
The problem is clear, individual developers can't make quality apps in general. The variety in WM devices, versions, and simple difficulty in developing makes this worse. Most Apps are not finger friendly, they don't support large screen, they don't support gestures, and they mostly don't support anything but internet and the CPU itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
jacobgong said:
So,do you have to do everything on your phone painfully. Or do you want to do the most common ones perfectly?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
both of yalls post were to long to read cuz its late, but im for wp7 also
wm7 is going to kill this community i think
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close, they hurt my eyes.
respect to your efforts, but the facts are clear, you don't have what it takes to make a commercial and professional UI, Or you'd be making one right now.
Seriously, You can't make a nice UI with a few Photoshop Layer Styles, it takes a lot more than that. There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance. If you can make the Iphone UI as good as it is, and have all the new features you want, you might as well talk to Apple for a nice new job.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard of Max Manilla, Max Sense or TouchXprience?? if not I would be more than glad to direct you to their forums!!
I am looking forward to WP7
WP7 certainly looks like a lovely interface and i am quite excited about it. I have enjoyed my WM6.x phone over the last few years - but I will be happy to step into the more consumer focused model that Microsoft has put forward.
Fa7my said:
Sorry to interrupt.. but have you even heard glad to direct you to their forums!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, I have.
they may look fancy but they obviously lack a lot of polishing.
Spike15 said:
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
I guess you really enjoy talking out of your ass.
People use these functions. They really do. I'm sorry that you're such a brain-dead moron that you can't figure out how to get more out of your phone than the blatantly obvious, I really am, but just because you're a vegetable doesn't mean we all are.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This post kills, but much of it is true
It really depends on what you mean by "spiritual". I get the feeling you're trying to debase consumer principles by using scare quotes and barely-apropos nouns however.
The problem with the modern corporate climate -- despite what people want to believe and what people say -- isn't the companies. Companies -- by definition -- are monolithic groupings that exist solely to produce profit. This instinct -- to produce profit -- is held in check by government regulation and consumers.
The government regulates through the law, and the consumer speaks through how he spends his money.
The problem with corporations nowadays isn't corporations, as some people seem to believe. The problem is that the government and consumers aren't doing their jobs. The government (at least in the United States) refuses to regulate corporations to the extent that is necessary (if you're going to be an idiot and try and argue this, why don't you just look at 2008 for a bit), and consumers have lost the ability to spend their money in a way that's in line with their beliefs.
People "talk the talk" but they don't "walk the walk". That is, they talk crap about a company, and how "evil" the company is, and yet patronize it nonetheless. The company exists solely to produce profit, so as long as you're patronizing them, they don't care what you say about them, because their ends are fulfilled.
This is what it comes down to -- for me -- with Apple, and now, Microsoft. Before I had genuine respect for Microsoft and their profits. They didn't try and over-step their bounds. They created products, and once those products were created and purchased, you could essentially do whatever you wanted with them.
Now they're becoming Apple-esque -- trying to tell people what they want, trying to tell people what they can and cannot do -- and I for one am not willing to encourage these companies with my money. As soon as they start down that slippery slope I -- being a good consumer who understands how to speak with his money -- stop patronizing them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really, I never thought about governments and evil corporations or anything like that. It's your freedom if you think arguing about such things make you more free and intelligent.
I guess you don't understand the idea of "background processing". Sure, saving state sounds like multi-tasking, but it really isn't.
Imagine this: Your friend freezes totally and is unable to move anytime you're not with him. You drop him off to go for a run, and are going to go to the shops and then pick him up when you're done. With the restriction that he freezes totally when you're not with him, when you return he'll be in basically the same place where you left him. He doesn't have to restart his run, sure, but he hasn't actually accomplished his goal in the time you were away, so you have to stay with him while he runs, which you don't want to do, because if you did, you'd be running.
This is what happens with saving state. Last weekend I took a trip to Vancouver with a few buddies, and had the GPS tracking and directing us. My buddy who was riding shotgun was playing with my phone -- web browsing, putting music on the car stereo, responding to SMSes and e-mails for me, the works -- but the GPS app kept going in the background, tracking our position.
In a non-multi-tasking environment -- even with saving state -- this wouldn't've worked. As soon as he tried to go to WMP, or Outlook Mobile, or Opera Mobile, the GPS app would've had its state saved, and would've stopped, so when we wanted to just check our position to get the next direction or see how far we had to go, we couldn't just switch back to the GPS app briefly, we would have to wait for our GPS position to be reacquired.
That's bull****.
Also, might I remind you that this is 2010? We've had multi-tasking operating systems since before 1970 (the year UNIX came out). That's 40 years genius. Anyone who says that they ("they" being Microsoft, Apple, or whoever else) can't put multi-tasking in a phone operating system is a moron...
...so it's fitting that you're defending this position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I know what Multitasking means, I run a quad-core 8-thread Intel Xeon desktop. I never said it's entirely not used, it's just really not that useful because even the example you gave me is a very rare case, which shows how often you really use it, not very.
It's about options you fascist.
I shouldn't have to rely on the default apps -- no matter how good they are -- if I don't want to.
An operating system is a platform, not an appliance.
Pull your head out of your ass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what made WM6.5 fail, thinking a phone OS is the same as a Desktop OS. it's not. the Phone is an appliance, not a general purpose electronic computer.
I like how you go on this quasi-rant with things like "[...] NOT SEEN A SINGLE good [...]" and "Even [...] lame and crappy and outdated" and "unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than [...] original titanium [...]", and then you go and ruin it with "[...]except HTC rip-offs".
You realize that whole "except" invalidated your entire premise right? Did you even think before you wrote that? You realize that with WP7S that "except" will be impossible, right?
You are so unthinkably stupid, I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I realize that "except" will be impossible, but I don't need it to be possible because the WM7 UI is a lot better than anything we've ever had. if nobody was able to make anything close to it, I don't expect anything better to be made any time soon.
and you are free to show me which of you freedom tweakers have made anything better than the HTC Sence/iPhone OS/HTC Android triple screen UI.
Actually Opera Mobile 10 isn't really available on the iPhone, since Apple is a bunch of fascist pigs and doesn't allow 3rd party browsers, kind of the way Microsoft is going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do I really care? the fact is the iPhone Safari browser browses the web better than a freakin netbook, it's a lot more fluid with multi-touch zoom and all that. Unlike Opera 10 on WM lags all the time and shows blanks when you zoom and pan.
I don't see how this is an argument for or against the WM platform.
The fact that you think developers for the platform are crappy, has no bearing on the platform itself.
I could write a piece of software that would ruin your Windows install if you ran it as Administrator...it'd be really easy actually.
Does that make Windows a bad platform, or does that make you a stupid asshole for running the program with Administrator rights?
As for the "apps" on the iPhone, nearly all the apps I've seen for the iPhone are totally and utterly useless. They encapsulate functionality that was already present in some form elsewhere in the operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you didn't know, writing programs before the existence of operating systems was a pain in the ass, cause you can't use languages like C
Like a Facebook app. You have a phone, with a web browser, that can simply go to Facebook, but instead you have a stupid app.
Or tip calculators. The phone has a calculator, but instead you get an app for that.
It's braindead...
...I guess I forgot who I was talking to.
As for file managers and the like, these are called "utilities", things that do useful things which aren't entertaining and expand the functionality of your device. Registry editors allow you to customize your device in a deep and advanced way that goes beyond the GUI. File managers allow you to open your device up and get truly powerful functionality out it.
Since I discovered the UNC support in the WM built-in file manager, I don't have to take the SD card out of my phone to put photos on my PC anymore, I just switch on the WiFi and copy/paste (but phones don't need that, right WP7S apologist?) the files across the WiFi to UNC shares on my PC, or on my file server.
But instead we should rely on nebulous Zune syncing, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the FaceBook app is there, because it makes it easier to access Facebook. If I try to access it with the web browser not only is it slow, laggy, power intensive. it's not optimized for finger use.
It's people like you who made the WM6.5 stylus and big battery a necessity.
as for the file syncing thing, yea I hate to have a syncing software like iTunes or whatever, I will hope it still works like thumbdrive drag and drop.
Doing things on my phone isn't painful. In fact none of the things on my phone are painful.
The only recurring issues I've had with my HD2 are because of 3rd party software. One of them -- HTC messaging -- is written by a 3rd party, so I don't see how you can bring that back on the platform (except by being a stupid ass...), and the other is Opera Mobile 10 BETA -- the word "BETA" would clue any intelligent human being into the fact that there are going to be quirks.
All platforms are going to be susceptible to the idiocy of 3rd party developers. Locking them down à la Apple or WP7S isn't the solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
jacobgong said:
-Customization.
I'm really sorry, but so far I have NOT SEEN A SINGLE good custom theme/icon or skin. Even SPB mobile shell looks lame and crappy and outdated. Until now, I have been unable to find any customization that will make my phone look better than the original titanium home, except HTC rip-offs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization doesn't just have to do with looking good.
As you say...
There is also a trade off between functionality and appearance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customization allows the user to make this trade off, and choose for example a more functional user interface that impressionable consumers would find less attractive.
jacobgong you are obviously an iPhone fan, ie. you belong to the market share (iphone users) to which microsoft is focusing on with WP7.
Welcome to the microsoft world! So glad they managed to grab you! This means their strategy is actually working!
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
This is actually a merge of worlds. MS is going to give us developers an opportunity to create apps for ex-iphone users like my friend jacobgong, if they manage to grab that share... And as I can see, they are already doing great!
This is good news.
jacobgong said:
I feel terribly sorry but you programmers need to improve some artistic creativity, or at least make a UI that actually looks exactly like the iPhone, instead of something that is kind of like iPhone, but with lame colored icons on the right upper corner. Or an iPhone menu with pages of ugly icons. Seriously, they don't even come close to the real iPhone, NOT EVEN CLOSE! they may work the same but they don't even feel close
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL
This said after "And I think most arguments against the WM7 is more "spiritual" than practical."
LOL!!!
You made my day, man. As a nerd who lives for customization and for what we "can" do rather than what the unwashed masses "do" do (hurhur, doodoo), I died a little bit inside. XD Let my phone look like it's from the '70s! More nerd points! It can do a heck of a lot more than yours (okay, I have no idea what you use), and that's all that matters to me. Cool, eh? At least it's more "practical" than your line of reasoning!
Spike15, well said. Making masses into vegetables. As i see it, Queen gave masses high school education, enough earnings to have a holiday in Spain, buy few pints on the weekend and go to a football match, beyond that nobody as of vegetable masses likes Mr. jacobgong dont know where is Russia to say the least
jacobgong said:
Opera 10 is no longer BETA, and nothing changed. you can keep dreaming about an iPhone Safari level browser.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well and your dream will be to get Adobe Flash support on the iPhone, which will never happen. And a browser without flash is just 50%. So you are forced to use a crappy app for youtube etc. And for you to know: your such beloved Safari browser is insecure as hell. Just google "Safari vulnerabilities" and you will see. So go away and shove that ugly thing up your arse.
hi all members i very like it on this forums
I am also for WP7. Who would say no to a silverlight/xna based GUI for our beloved WM OS? No multitasking/No Copy-paste etc. only applies to the GUI and the apps written for it.
I use WM6.5 because it gives me the most desktop-like experience:
I can explore files and folders without limits
I can edit *.sys *.bat *.txt *.whatever files
I can use context menus (send to, cut copy paste, zip, mail, etc)
I can directly copy/download/use my desktop files (without the need for a sync software or any kind of permissions)
I can customize and rearange my desktop at will
I can find tons of free (or cheap) software everywhere
I can edit and tweak some DLLs
etc...
I have not tested WP7 personaly, but it seems like it is going to loose all of these desktop-like features in favour of a more closed, iPhone-clone experience.
AM I WRONG ???
I was SO concerned I just tested a new Android 2.2 phone.
At a first glance and to my surprise, the UI was boring and nearly non-customizable, there wasn't even a simple FILE EXPLORER preinstalled on it !!
Comming from WM6.5, Android made me feel like a caged bird...
Or am I mssing something ??
If WP7 is going in another direction, then, which other options do I have for a desktop-like pocket PC ??
A viliv N5 ??
I learned from an early age that sometimes things change and I have to adapt to new methods of doing things. But I remembered when I went from DOS 6.22 to Windows 95. I didn't have as much control through autoexec.bat and config.sys. I felt like I was losing a whole world. But I learned that there were new ways of doing things, and I had to adapt to the new paradigm shift that was taking place. I was around 13 at the time, so I didn't really understand it as much as I do today.
In the mobile space, things are moving away from being a mobile desktop and more of a window into certain services. You'll have to learn how to customize those devices to get them to fulfill your use case, and it won't be the same as the previous generation.
You are not right. The whole world still using Windows XP despite of titanic efforts of MS to clap us Vista. Windows 7 is slightly better but still XP is the best one. Same will happen with WP7. We will still use 6.5 and develop programs for it as it will be the better OS. I will not be surprised if I see 6.5 port for HD3 With so much power WM6.5 will work like charm on HD3.
gom99 said:
But I remembered when I went from DOS 6.22 to Windows 95. I didn't have as much control through autoexec.bat and config.sys. I felt like I was losing a whole world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sound like you never used DOS 6.22 and Win95... This statement is comical and if you weren't a retard accomplishing most of the same tasks in Windows were trivial. The only thing you couldn't load though those files in Windows 95 was EMM386.
Also, who went from DOS straight to Win95? Where were you from 91 to 95, sleeping?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
**** DOS and Win95. Windows NT 3.5 was where it's at!
Yeah, I actually ran it and everything NT beyond it. **** Win9x 4 lyfe.
gtrab said:
I use WM6.5 because it gives me the most desktop-like experience:
I can explore files and folders without limits
I can edit *.sys *.bat *.txt *.whatever files
I can use context menus (send to, cut copy paste, zip, mail, etc)
I can directly copy/download/use my desktop files (without the need for a sync software or any kind of permissions)
I can customize and rearange my desktop at will
I can find tons of free (or cheap) software everywhere
I can edit and tweak some DLLs
etc...
I have not tested WP7 personaly, but it seems like it is going to loose all of these desktop-like features in favour of a more closed, iPhone-clone experience.
AM I WRONG ???
I was SO concerned I just tested a new Android 2.2 phone.
At a first glance and to my surprise, the UI was boring and nearly non-customizable, there wasn't even a simple FILE EXPLORER preinstalled on it !!
Comming from WM6.5, Android made me feel like a caged bird...
Or am I mssing something ??
If WP7 is going in another direction, then, which other options do I have for a desktop-like pocket PC ??
A viliv N5 ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it's to be seen in what way WP7 will develop.
I have identical concerns.
As for Android 2.2, it actually has almost everything WM6.5 has.
If not preinstalled, it's on app store. Task managers, file managers....
I just really don't like Android feel and look.
I stay with WM 6.5 for some time too.
Maemo, maybe?
So... there are no current real options to my concerns
Well, you may be right: I may have to "adapt" (evolve) and quit my WM6.5 cooking/tweaking freedom ...or go find a good phone software for a Viliv N5
I am seriously considering the N5 possibility
Lets see what happens when WP7 comes out
I am amazed how people in this forum are not happy with the new direction WP7 is taking... Let me explain why.
While I love doing everything the OP has stated, I love doing it on my desktop/laptop because I find a use for it. I feel the need to customize and tweak the OS to fill my needs for some things, ie: task automation, background activites without me having to do anything, skins and so on and so forth.
While I did this on my TP2 as well, i slowly get bored of this for two reasons: 1°) the phone will never have the kind of power to do all of this without slowing in day to day use, which my TP2 does and my Diamond before that, and 2°) The phone is designed for a) call/text, b) access all my services seamlessly (Zune and Windows Live are my first priorities).
In 2010, people want access to services. They don't want to go into a registry. I mean, wtf should i go and edit something in HEX, or DWord or whatever in 2010? To gain something that will make my system unstable? No, users want seemless services, accessible from everywhere, and that is something that WP7 provides.
I feel that, if I have to do some editing of the OS, then I shouldn't have to spend 600 euros and the phone. At that price, the phone is supposed to have a top notch performance, which, when you half bake a OS just like WM 6.x, is not present.
Consumers need a phone that works. And the iPhone-clone as everyone here not open minded enough to see that calls it is a great opportunity for those who like the concept of the iPhone but do not like the Phone or the company itself.
WP7 is a paradigm shift. And as Kuhn said, the world needs paradigm shifts in order to progress. This is one of these shifts that the iPhone started, the Android continued and that WP7 will end.
It's a great era for the consumer. Open your mind.
NoWorthWhile said:
I am amazed how people in this forum are not happy with the new direction WP7 is taking... Let me explain why.
While I love doing everything the OP has stated, I love doing it on my desktop/laptop because I find a use for it. I feel the need to customize and tweak the OS to fill my needs for some things, ie: task automation, background activites without me having to do anything, skins and so on and so forth.
While I did this on my TP2 as well, i slowly get bored of this for two reasons: 1°) the phone will never have the kind of power to do all of this without slowing in day to day use, which my TP2 does and my Diamond before that, and 2°) The phone is designed for a) call/text, b) access all my services seamlessly (Zune and Windows Live are my first priorities).
In 2010, people want access to services. They don't want to go into a registry. I mean, wtf should i go and edit something in HEX, or DWord or whatever in 2010? To gain something that will make my system unstable? No, users want seemless services, accessible from everywhere, and that is something that WP7 provides.
I feel that, if I have to do some editing of the OS, then I shouldn't have to spend 600 euros and the phone. At that price, the phone is supposed to have a top notch performance, which, when you half bake a OS just like WM 6.x, is not present.
Consumers need a phone that works. And the iPhone-clone as everyone here not open minded enough to see that calls it is a great opportunity for those who like the concept of the iPhone but do not like the Phone or the company itself.
WP7 is a paradigm shift. And as Kuhn said, the world needs paradigm shifts in order to progress. This is one of these shifts that the iPhone started, the Android continued and that WP7 will end.
It's a great era for the consumer. Open your mind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And I say - it's bull****. Complete.
I agree the OS has to work, sure. That's why developers should work hard to bring the possibilites to the user, not cut them because it's difficult.
I agree that I should not be forced to tweak any registry when I don't need to and I should be able to seamlessly use a device without bigger effort.
However I disagree with making people idiots.
And why the hell you tell me what I should do with the device?
Wake up. Pocket devices are the future. I don't see a ****ing reason why after 10 years of development suddenly many options are OUT. There's no reason to take away the features just because of UI change.
But the biggest bull**** you say is with "it just works"...
If I can compose an email, but cannot add many different attachements to it because of system limitation, IT DOESN'T ****ING WORK at all!!!
It doesn't "just works". It does things Microsoft imagined I want to do, instead of leaving me more options. There are many simple task which simply "it just doesn't work"
doministry said:
And I say - it's bull****. Complete.
I agree the OS has to work, sure. That's why developers should work hard to bring the possibilites to the user, not cut them because it's difficult.
I agree that I should not be forced to tweak any registry when I don't need to and I should be able to seamlessly use a device without bigger effort.
However I disagree with making people idiots.
And why the hell you tell me what I should do with the device?
Wake up. Pocket devices are the future. I don't see a ****ing reason why after 10 years of development suddenly many options are OUT. There's no reason to take away the features just because of UI change.
But the biggest bull**** you say is with "it just works"...
If I can compose an email, but cannot add many different attachements to it because of system limitation, IT DOESN'T ****ING WORK at all!!!
It doesn't "just works". It does things Microsoft imagined I want to do, instead of leaving me more options. There are many simple task which simply "it just doesn't work"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am in NO way trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your device. I'm merely asking you what the hell you are doing with a small size device that requires THAT amount of customisation/tweaking.
Yes, it does just work. If you need to write a freaking novel on your phone, then sorry, but something's wrong in your head.
Tell me what do you want that WP7 can't do? Heavy text editing? You've got your PC for that. A phone is a phone, NOT a pc. What you need is a Tablet/Slate with Data service.
NoWorthWhile said:
I am in NO way trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't do with your device. I'm merely asking you what the hell you are doing with a small size device that requires THAT amount of customisation/tweaking.
Yes, it does just work. If you need to write a freaking novel on your phone, then sorry, but something's wrong in your head.
Tell me what do you want that WP7 can't do? Heavy text editing? You've got your PC for that. A phone is a phone, NOT a pc. What you need is a Tablet/Slate with Data service.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Opinions like that are the most destructive **** in this world.
There's rather something wrong in your head, and you exactly try to judge what I should do with my device - again. And you tell me what I need. Bravo.
Maybe you don't have need to do much with your phone but that's your choice.
People use devices in extensive way for decade, wake up. Why the hell should I be like you?!
I was able to do everything I want last 10 years, so I just want to continue like that.
doministry said:
Opinions like that are the most destructive **** in this world.
There's rather something wrong in your head, and you exactly try to judge what I should do with my device - again. And you tell me what I need. Bravo.
Maybe you don't have need to do much with your phone but that's your choice.
People use devices in extensive way for decade, wake up. Why the hell should I be like you?!
I was able to do everything I want last 10 years, so I just want to continue like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In what way is that destructive? Change is good, and in this case, you've also got the choice of what to buy (or not buy). You seem unhappy with WP7 for reasons of your own, and I respect that, but what IS destructive is what you are doing right now: denying evolution.
Let me give you one example:
http://www.ted.com/talks/john_under...urce=direct-on.ted.com&utm_content=site-basic
It's still far away in the future, but I'm guessing (guessing, not stating) that it wont likely be as customizable as Windows 7, or say, XP. Will THAT be a bad thing? It WILL eventually change the way we interact with PCs. No more folders, no more registrys, no more freaking .sys .bat. dll files, but instead, content. Videos, Music, Documents, Websites, and so on so forth. Is THAT a bad thing?
I am in no way telling you to be like me, that's the point of humans, we are all different. But I can twist the matter in any way possible, for me, my cellphone is a CONSUMPTION device. Not a device that is meant for creation. And that is limited by the physical form factor of the device. No OS, good or bad, old or new will ever be able to achieve the level of usability you seek to achieve. If WM 6.x seems the choice for you, then stick with it.
OK, after reading every comment, well...
You talk "smart phone"
I dreaam "pocket PC" (read it again: a PC that fits in my pocket)
If I "just" wanted a smart phone that really works, I would have got the iPhone ages ago, but I AM DIFFERENT, I am not the standard joe looking for a phone that makes phones calls and can tweet, NO !!
I need to carry my PC on my pocket (or at least a mirror of my PC) !!
But I am learnig that is NOT happening... Santa didn't hear my WP7 wishes...
Then,
May HTML5 save us from "mobile versions" of web pages
and May Moore's Law put a full Win7 PC on my pocket in the near future !!
PS: DO YOU guys really think omitting cut/paste from their new mobile OS is really EVOLUTION ??
Isn't it going BACKWARDS ??
Tech Inquisition ?? (stick with what we offer you, don't dream different things)
What's next ??
Will I have to pray a savior god and pay a monthly portion of my incomes for my phone too ??
Now I get what you really want. Then, by all means, I apologize.
But, yeah, as I already told you, the closest thing to what you want is either Winmo 6.5, or a 7 inch Archos with Win7 on it...
To answer to your PS: Yes, omitting copy/paste and multitasking is a mistake, but I trust MS to bring it along down the road someday. As I rarely ever use copy/paste I don't really care, but I care most about Multitasking.
And my own PS: I'm not an average Joe either, I always hate the iPhone not for the device itself, but for the ecosystem behind it, because let's face it, that's where the pocket devices are headed to: the center of an ecosystem.
EDIT:
gtrab said:
Will I have to pray a savior god and pay a monthly portion of my incomes for my phone too ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It already happened: the god is Steve Jobs, and you pay a Data Plan every month [Humour]
Also, I realize I answered to the wrong person xD
gtrab said:
If I "just" wanted a smart phone that really works, I would have got the iPhone ages ago, but I AM DIFFERENT, I am not the standard joe looking for a phone that makes phones calls and can tweet, NO !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone can do much more than that. As I took a temporary trip to the dark side and use an iPhone now I want WP7 more and more each day because MS seem to tackle some of the most annoying problems with this device - WP7 has a much better mail client, a much more useful calendar and non-intrusive notifications, things that piss me off every day on the iPhone. The hadware Back button is also sorely missing on Jesus Phone.
N8ter said:
You sound like you never used DOS 6.22 and Win95... This statement is comical and if you weren't a retard accomplishing most of the same tasks in Windows were trivial. The only thing you couldn't load though those files in Windows 95 was EMM386.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MSDOS was much less arcane than Windows 95 ie it was fairly easy to see and understand what was being loaded at startup. That's what I was referring to.
N8ter said:
Also, who went from DOS straight to Win95? Where were you from 91 to 95, sleeping?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get what you mean by this...wasn't win95 the integration of MSDOS & Windows Line? What was I supposed to be using? Windows 3.1 more of a GUI on top of DOS. I only loaded windows if I wanted to run a program in windows.
NoWorthWhile said:
In what way is that destructive? Change is good, and in this case, you've also got the choice of what to buy (or not buy). You seem unhappy with WP7 for reasons of your own, and I respect that, but what IS destructive is what you are doing right now: denying evolution.
Let me give you one example:
http://www.ted.com/talks/john_under...urce=direct-on.ted.com&utm_content=site-basic
It's still far away in the future, but I'm guessing (guessing, not stating) that it wont likely be as customizable as Windows 7, or say, XP. Will THAT be a bad thing? It WILL eventually change the way we interact with PCs. No more folders, no more registrys, no more freaking .sys .bat. dll files, but instead, content. Videos, Music, Documents, Websites, and so on so forth. Is THAT a bad thing?
I am in no way telling you to be like me, that's the point of humans, we are all different. But I can twist the matter in any way possible, for me, my cellphone is a CONSUMPTION device. Not a device that is meant for creation. And that is limited by the physical form factor of the device. No OS, good or bad, old or new will ever be able to achieve the level of usability you seek to achieve. If WM 6.x seems the choice for you, then stick with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, evolution! I love evolution!
That's why WP7 UI paradigm appeals to me!
That's why after many years bricky phones with phonebook and tiny monochromatic screens were replaced by multi functionality devices
with colour touchscreens, cameras and also many COMPUTER functions!
With operating systems inside! Why? Do give MORE functionality!!!!
Evolution means MORE and BETTER.
If you take away functionality for UCLEAR reasons it's a step back!
They do it for the policy. Removing normal file access is rubbish and limiting the user
without any real functionality reasons.
By the way I was never limited by the phone's form factor.
And instead of dragging everywhere ****ing laptop I have all in my pocket, ready!
And your arguments are not credible for me.
And Apple were saying the same, just to bring everything BACK, making big Bang! with it.
You say it's just a phone yet all WP7 devices actually CONTAIN all the applications which make it almost pocket PC. Just apps itself are limited.
Bull****. It's just a policy.
So, in your opinion, what is the reason for this policy? Insanity? Uncontrollable desire to copy everything Apple does, as some people love to suggest? Or maybe there is something they found worth considering?
vangrieg said:
So, in your opinion, what is the reason for this policy? Insanity? Uncontrollable desire to copy everything Apple does, as some people love to suggest? Or maybe there is something they found worth considering?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Policy?
Keep their OS locked so less people have any access to it?
Make a devices unified in UI so they reach a brand feel on the phones regardless of producer?
Control the stability in processes which are much harder to control?
Prevent unauthorized copying?
Differentiate phone and PC so the user is somehow forced to have both devices?
I could probably find more...
As for Apple: well, no - blind copying no. But copying some things definitely yes.
Of course they have many innovative ideas and I think it has big chance, considering it is really modern and offers great new UI paradigm.