Related
Ok, now the the 1 Million Dollar question. I'm thinking of my HTC Nike an the whole htcclassaction Issue.
I know the Desire has an 600 MHz DSP for decoding 720p video. I know Qualcomm states that the Snapdragon does have "High-performance 3D graphics – up to 22M triangles/sec and 133M 3D pixels/sec".
I know Android 2.1 supports OpenGL ES 2.
But does the Desire have an own GPU for 3D, Graphics and GUI like the Iphone (no, I don't like the Iphone) or does it run things like Android GUI or 3D in Software?
I'm planning to buy a Desire next week, but if HTC misses again, it would be an huge point against the Desire (at least for me).
Nope its all part of the Snapdragon CPU its not a separate GPU like the iPhone, Droid or Nokia N900.
The Snapdragon can't match the OMAP 3460 in 3D performance unfortunately. Thankfully for us though, snapdragon android phones are WAY more numerous than OMAP phones so most games will be optimized for the Snapdragon
Wow, that really sucks. So i think i will wait until there is a smartphone with Tegra or maybe Tegra 2. But thanks for you reply.
If you want pure (graphics) performance you should skip qualcomm-enabled devices.
See video comparison (ToonWarz)
HTC Desire (qualcom snapdragon 1ghz + Adreno 200 GPU)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVzkank7iOw
Motorola Milestone (ARM Cortex 8 550Mhz + PowerVR GPU) - min 4:23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-XaaQXIxw
You can wait till Samsung Galaxy S and see how it performs.. even if i hate samsung custom UI and all iphone copying stuff
L.E.
Another example (Asphalt 5)
- Motorola Milestone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlsfP38lSM
- HTC Desire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIEwlL73utM
As you can see the performance is better in good old Motorola Milestone.
In general, you can skip HTC cos' they always use the cheapest piece of hardware. And that's not only related to SoC (CPU, GPU) but also related to display (see the multitouch bug, a lot of videos there - Motorola Milestone doesn't suffer for this). The things I will mis about HTC are the Sense UI and trackball. Otherwise, screw htc.
OK, now I'm a little confused. So the Desire does have a GPU (Adreno 200)? And I was looking at benchmarks in youtube (I cannot post links, so search for "Motorola Milestone/Nexus One - Neocore Benchmark") where Milestone gets 20,6 fps and Desire 26,3 fps.
But I fear that again HTC misses to hardware accelerate the GUI.
Hirsch2k said:
OK, now I'm a little confused. So the Desire does have a GPU (Adreno 200)? And I was looking at benchmarks in youtube (I cannot post links, so search for "Motorola Milestone/Nexus One - Neocore Benchmark") where Milestone gets 20,6 fps and Desire 26,3 fps.
But I fear that again HTC misses to hardware accelerate the GUI.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Neocore is Qualcomm optimized so it will always outperform the Milestone. In raw 3d power, the milestone can perform better.
Hm, I think I will wait for the Samsung Galaxy S.
Galaxy s is samsung... and this mean it sux. They have no care about fixing buggs, look at omnia 2, since june last year, no one upgrade, i have a bug that i cant send message to some number in my phone. And a lot of.. They do not optimize phone. They sell you one, that's it. You are alone now. Good luck with samsung, my f.....g samsung is still waitng to be repaired, 3 month in support assistant mean for me never get 1 only things that have samsung writed
Hirsch2k said:
Hm, I think I will wait for the Samsung Galaxy S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't bother.
Developers back the majority and the majority is Snapdragon powered phones, not OMAP and not whatever chip Samsung is using.
sonyxperia2 said:
Galaxy s is samsung... and this mean it sux. They have no care about fixing buggs, look at omnia 2, since june last year, no one upgrade, i have a bug that i cant send message to some number in my phone. And a lot of.. They do not optimize phone. They sell you one, that's it. You are alone now. Good luck with samsung, my f.....g samsung is still waitng to be repaired, 3 month in support assistant mean for me never get 1 only things that have samsung writed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You talk like as htc does care.. well, for your information htc doesn't really care. just if you look back in past you'll see. yes, i'm a dissapointed htc hero user cos their lack of interest in this device (they announced an update for hero last year in december if i'm not wrong... nothing we received). before hero i had a touch pro. the most expensive piece of **** i bought. laggy, full of bugs & so on.
let's not generalize that samsung is crap.. maybe you've got a faulty device. i've seen on forums many omnia happy users.
ah.. and i cannot comment the part of your phone in service.. maybe got lost somewhere.. hmm
abc27 if Samsung Galaxy S is top notch in reality i doubt it will be unsuccessfull. let's wait and see
grr, if the galaxy s had an trackball
competition is realy good in Android world. i'm sick and tired of htc monopoly
DSF said:
You talk like as htc does care.. well, for your information htc doesn't really care. just if you look back in past you'll see. yes, i'm a dissapointed htc hero user cos their lack of interest in this device (they announced an update for hero last year in december if i'm not wrong... nothing we received). before hero i had a touch pro. the most expensive piece of **** i bought. laggy, full of bugs & so on.
let's not generalize that samsung is crap.. maybe you've got a faulty device. i've seen on forums many omnia happy users.
ah.. and i cannot comment the part of your phone in service.. maybe got lost somewhere.. hmm
abc27 if Samsung Galaxy S is top notch in reality i doubt it will be unsuccessfull. let's wait and see
grr, if the galaxy s had an trackball
competition is realy good in Android world. i'm sick and tired of htc monopoly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Samsung make great TVs but sadly that's pretty much all they're good at making. It doesn't matter if you have a superphone with a 3GHz quad core processor and dual graphics cards. If it's not a popular CPU/GPU platform then nothing will be developed to use that power and nothing will be optimized for it.
chrism_scotland said:
Nope its all part of the Snapdragon CPU its not a separate GPU like the iPhone, Droid or Nokia N900.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but this is incorrect.
Both the Snapdragon processor (Qualcomm) in the Desire, and the OMAP processor (TI) in the iPhone/Droid have integrated GPUs as part of the SoC (system on a chip).
However, the PowerVR GPU in the TI processor is more capable than the Imageon GPU in the Qualcomm.
Regards,
Dave
Before I bought the Desire, I knew that it wont do better in games then IPhone but then again I have a PSP for mobile gaming which is better then IPhone. If I really wanted touchscreen games I would just buy a DS.
Nekromantik said:
Before I bought the Desire, I knew that it wont do better in games then IPhone but then again I have a PSP for mobile gaming which is better then IPhone. If I really wanted touchscreen games I would just buy a DS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony (NOT SONY ERICSSON) are apparently planning on releasing a PSP phone sometime late 2010 or early 2011 from a few unconfirmed reports. That sounds like it would be a beast of a phone. I'd imagine Sony would just have the PSP OS running alongside Android or maybe they're developing a proprietary OS that runs PSP games as well as functions as a phone.
abc27 said:
Samsung make great TVs but sadly that's pretty much all they're good at making. It doesn't matter if you have a superphone with a 3GHz quad core processor and dual graphics cards. If it's not a popular CPU/GPU platform then nothing will be developed to use that power and nothing will be optimized for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Games, in general, are using OpenGL which is standard. Qualcomm Snapdragon is similar to ARM Cortex A8: FPU, NEON etc. (see http://www.dspdesignline.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=204700527 )
So I'm sure that a game optimized for snapdragons will work (if not better) also on a powerVR/arm cortex a8 solution.
Many cool games are available for Android and upcoming.
Unfortunately HTC is using the cheap SoC from qualcomm so due the poor GPU the games aren't running smothly.
You can see here a comparison of Gangstar West Coast Hustle
- Nexus One (same hardware as Desire)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOZtM6YK9zo
- Motorola Milestone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUJwONg9UP0
As you can see the game runs way better in good old Motorola Milestone. And that's not the most powerful GPU on the mobile world.
And here you can see the Samsung Galaxy S in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ4N7QAlHd4
Clearly I will not get a HTC+Qualcomm SoC (this combination) again. GG competition.
+ Those phones are not affected of the multitouch bug that is present on so many HTC devices (and many htc devices are dual touch).
htc = cheap capacitive layer, cheap soc => expensive device. does it deserve this? actually they are smart.. using cheap hardware and sell the device overpriced.
@abc27 actually HTC (also Apple on their iPhone) is using many components from Samsung, for eg: displays, ram modules... Samsung it's a top semiconductors company.. So Samsung is not a cheap company. But I have to agree, their software customizations are awful
Hi guys
I recently got hold of a Samsung i9000 Galaxy S, and i have to say im rather dissapointed.
The lag issue, which none of the lag fixes really actually stop, is so annoying, GPS not working as im one of the unfortunate people who have this issue is another annoyance
The screen is fantastic however, and the music player is aweseome with its equilizer.
However i use my phone for numerous things, media is one thing, GPS also as i dont see the need to buy a seperate sat nav when my phone "should have it",
Now i am going to wait until the official Froyo release from samsung before making any decision.
Right stop my moaning and here are my questions
i have been offered in exchange a sim Free Desire, plus a 16gb Class 6 sdcard, all boxed.
The one thing that worries me about going down the Desire route is how long is this handset gonna last.
Looking at benchmarks the i9000 creams the desire (with lag fix) in pretty much everything, i know this is down to the pretty poor Adreno 200 GPU on snapdragon as linpack shows the snapdragon FPU is better, Quadrant over 2200 currently on my SGS
in gaming terms for the future how long is this gonna last? can i expect games that are released in 6 months from now to run flawlessly? i know its hard for people to see into the future! but NEed for speed seems to run pretty much identically to my SGS, so im wondering if its all down to optimization on both chipsets
also gingerbread? a definate yes? or have HTC still not announced if Desire will be getting it
Samsung wont give any answers on this whatsoever
Also what would you guys do?
The samsung guys say "stay with it" but i want opinions from both camps
Cheers
You are on the same point I was a few weeks ago, well I wasn't offered in exchange by someone but the store owner offered to change it for me. Honestly, I'd say go for it. Samsung's software is crap, Desire has a lot better development community. Not to mention you get HTC Sense. Now one warning, Desire doesn't got true multi-touch, it got pinch support but thats about as far as the multi-touch goes. I tired playing Real Football 2010 with a Desire and it was a crap experience. People have reported Quadrant benchmarks of almost 1800 via OCed kernel and custom ROMs, if you really want to get down to that point but honestly it doesn't make a difference.
And HTC still hasn't announced if Desire is getting Gingerbread but there is a good chance the ROM community will be able to get it running. Plus Samsung still hasn't released Froyo, so I don't see a bright future of Gingerbread coming from them.
Now, GPS on Desire is damn good. It works as good as my 2 year old satnav if not better(It usually gets the fix better, I gave my satnav away ).
Honestly the handset has a good life-time to last, HTC Hero is still doing pretty good so Desire should do good as well was another year or more. Even if HTC may drop the support we have people here giving new life to the device.
My opinion: go for it! Desire is a great phone / smartphone.
The more I use it, the better it is.
Make sure you do a hard reset when you get it...
im seriously 50/50 on this, and now my time frame has been shortened, my mate wants to know by tomorrow otherwise he is ebaying it (mates eh!?)
Benchmarks are not the be all and end all, its bragging rights i suppose.
one thing that is seriously tipping me back to HTC is the support and community development, Samsungs own support is utterly awful, Kies is the worst piece of software i have ever ever used, and no OTA?! what the hell is that about.
As for HTC back in the day when i had my hero, ok there was delays but at least they kept people in the loop, one of my biggest annoyences is not being advised anything from samsung other than "we are working on it"
i dont hold out anyfaith that the filesystem will be sorted out with froyo, i mean it says alot when the XDA guys can fix it, but Samsung dont seem to even ackowledge the fact the software is naff!
i thought the desire had true multi touch? Does this mean playing psx4droid is a poor experiance?
No, it doesn't got true multi-touch. If the x1 intersects with y2 or x2 with y1 it goes haywire. It doesn't have gorilla glass either. But the community of HTC Desire is far better than Galaxy S from my experience, we don't have to use Kies or similar crap either(It was a PITA to get Kies to even recognize my phone, took me well over 4 hours and a lot of headaches), we got OTA! .
Dragooon123 said:
No, it doesn't got true multi-touch. If the x1 intersects with y2 or x2 with y1 it goes haywire. It doesn't have gorilla glass either. But the community of HTC Desire is far better than Galaxy S from my experience, we don't have to use Kies or similar crap either(It was a PITA to get Kies to even recognize my phone, took me well over 4 hours and a lot of headaches), we got OTA! .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Glad you share my view on Kies, i honestly have never had such issues flashing a firmware, at least with Odin it did what it says on the tin
ok well im pushing more towards the desire, i just HOPE that its as much as an enjoyable process playing PSX games on psx4droid as it is on the Galaxy S, i do alot of travelling and i spend most of that time on trains playing FF7
If you want to do gaming stick with the galaxy s the desire isn't very good for that. Maybe 2.2 for the galaxy s will resolve your issues. I love the desire its a great phone but its horrible for gaming.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
it all depends how much more powerfull the new version of adreno is, obviously developers are still going to develop games for the arm cpu and adreno inparticular, imo i think our gpu will be able to play the games developed for newer versions of adreno but maybe not flawlessly .............. as far as gingerbread goes, the desire will never get it officially as htc are more intrested in supporting what will be then there current generation of devices, but as the desire and n1 are almost identical, and the n1 being googles official developer device, they are sure to get gingerbread, so we maybe we will be the first device to get working custom roms
AndroHero said:
it all depends how much more powerfull the new version of adreno is, obviously developers are still going to develop games for the arm cpu and adreno inparticular, imo i think our gpu will be able to play the games developed for newer versions of adreno but maybe not flawlessly .............. as far as gingerbread goes, the desire will never get it officially as htc are more intrested in supporting what will be then there current generation of devices, but as the desire and n1 are almost identical, and the n1 being googles official developer device, they are sure to get gingerbread, so we maybe we will be the first device to get working custom roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never thought of it like that actually regarding future android updates, basically the N1 is the same hardware as the desire, just lacking a little bit of Ram i believe, so shouldnt be too difficult to port over a rom
you sir have just tipped the scales again!
If you care about gaming stick with SGS..devs are even stopping games for desire ( see n.o.v.a) due to the multitouch bug and the the GPU isn't even remotely close to sgs's..Desire's 720p is a big pile of disappointment as well,no matter what rom you try..
other than that it is a fantastic phone...also unique feel as you hold it in your palm..its ergonomy is amazing, even ip4 doesn't sit as well in the hand as desire does..
Your right about the iPhone 4 it is a pain to hold now lol (not about the signal "issue") the edges are Sharp.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I have a Desire & my friend has a Galaxy S.
I would say the Samsung has a better screen. However:
The Desire is a better over all device, software wise and build quality wise. Oh and it has more ram.
However, if gaming is a serious thing for you, I suggest you stay with the Samsung because they really do have the most powerful mobile GPU.
mr.r9 said:
I have a Desire & my friend has a Galaxy S.
I would say the Samsung has a better screen. However:
The Desire is a better over all device, software wise and build quality wise. Oh and it has more ram.
However, if gaming is a serious thing for you, I suggest you stay with the Samsung because they really do have the most powerful mobile GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In respects to gaming its not gaming as such, i mean angry birds beta from the market, any gpu should play that, im more bothered about PSX emulation at this point, my sgs is superb with psx4droid, where as the videos i have seen on youtube dont say the same story with desire, however these are based on the early versions of the app,
ascottuk said:
In respects to gaming its not gaming as such, i mean angry birds beta from the market, any gpu should play that, im more bothered about PSX emulation at this point, my sgs is superb with psx4droid, where as the videos i have seen on youtube dont say the same story with desire, however these are based on the early versions of the app,
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't worry about that...psx4droid does not yet support hardware acceleration so all graphics are rendered from the CPU , not the GPU...so they should play it equaly well..well runs fine on my desire..and also i had an hd2 before and used fpsece which supported(and still does) hw acceleration..and run great on hd2 (has snapdragon chip, same as htc desire)..could get 40+fps on tekken 3...which is brillian (does not even run in psx4droid)..
chris2busy said:
Don't worry about that...psx4droid does not yet support hardware acceleration so all graphics are rendered from the CPU , not the GPU...so they should play it equaly well..well runs fine on my desire..and also i had an hd2 before and used fpsece which supported(and still does) hw acceleration..and run great on hd2 (has snapdragon chip, same as htc desire)..could get 40+fps on tekken 3...which is brillian (does not even run in psx4droid)..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also had a hd2 and it was excellent, just a pitty about winmo 6.5, do you know if there are any plans for GPU acceleration to be implemented for android?
ascottuk said:
Also had a hd2 and it was excellent, just a pitty about winmo 6.5, do you know if there are any plans for GPU acceleration to be implemented for android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think we have crappy drivers for our gpu too, the acer liquid has the same gpu but with a cpu that runs at a lower clockspeed, but apparently the 3d rendering on that device surpasses our device
AndroHero said:
i think we have crappy drivers for our gpu too, the acer liquid has the same gpu but with a cpu that runs at a lower clockspeed, but apparently the 3d rendering on that device surpasses our device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no they do not have a standard snapdragon..
ascottuk said:
Also had a hd2 and it was excellent, just a pitty about winmo 6.5, do you know if there are any plans for GPU acceleration to be implemented for android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Truly no idea..the guy is taking it deadly slow..Kiss Yorkshire goodnight from me had a trip 3 years ago and it was the sweetest town ever..
ascottuk said:
Hi guys
I recently got hold of a Samsung i9000 Galaxy S, and i have to say im rather dissapointed.
The lag issue, which none of the lag fixes really actually stop, is so annoying, GPS not working as im one of the unfortunate people who have this issue is another annoyance
The screen is fantastic however, and the music player is aweseome with its equilizer.
However i use my phone for numerous things, media is one thing, GPS also as i dont see the need to buy a seperate sat nav when my phone "should have it",
Now i am going to wait until the official Froyo release from samsung before making any decision.
Right stop my moaning and here are my questions
i have been offered in exchange a sim Free Desire, plus a 16gb Class 6 sdcard, all boxed.
The one thing that worries me about going down the Desire route is how long is this handset gonna last.
Looking at benchmarks the i9000 creams the desire (with lag fix) in pretty much everything, i know this is down to the pretty poor Adreno 200 GPU on snapdragon as linpack shows the snapdragon FPU is better, Quadrant over 2200 currently on my SGS
in gaming terms for the future how long is this gonna last? can i expect games that are released in 6 months from now to run flawlessly? i know its hard for people to see into the future! but NEed for speed seems to run pretty much identically to my SGS, so im wondering if its all down to optimization on both chipsets
also gingerbread? a definate yes? or have HTC still not announced if Desire will be getting it
Samsung wont give any answers on this whatsoever
Also what would you guys do?
The samsung guys say "stay with it" but i want opinions from both camps
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
id say go for the desire, just won t3 awards phone of the year
chris2busy said:
no they do not have a standard snapdragon..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats my point!! they have the same gpu running with a 768mhz cpu, and there gpu can do 3D better than ours, read this thread started about overclocking our gpu.....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8553534#post8553534
I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Discuss...
Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.
As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry
I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...
I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.
fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?
Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?
vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.
I'm going to buy wave II today, why? that's because it has the same hardware as galaxy s and it's 200 CHF (stronger then USD) cheaper than galaxy s and now that the android 2.2 alpha is here, i have no reason not to buy this. I would like some quick suggestions about this device...i mean...i would want to have a moderate gaming on this device + video calling on yahoo/skype...so tell me if there are good games for bada and what's the future of this phone (android stable with dual boot?)
Dito. Got mine today and don't know whether to keep it or sell it. But where did you find an Android alpha?
433Mhz said:
Dito. Got mine today and don't know whether to keep it or sell it. But where did you find an Android alpha?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's an incomplete version and i don't think it's available to everyone:
The project to port Android
Froyo 2.2 on Wave
Looking forward to more suggestions
Forget about Androbada. Nothing has been released, they only ***** about everything and I think they stopped working. Looks like a fake to me.
shad0wboss said:
I'm going to buy wave II today, why? that's because it has the same hardware as galaxy s and it's 200 CHF (stronger then USD) cheaper than galaxy s and now that the android 2.2 alpha is here, i have no reason not to buy this. I would like some quick suggestions about this device...i mean...i would want to have a moderate gaming on this device + video calling on yahoo/skype...so tell me if there are good games for bada and what's the future of this phone (android stable with dual boot?)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont buy a bada device! you will be disapppinted. there is no skype or anyother voip app. if you say you want to buy it because of hardware , then i will say a hardware is useless unless it has a good software. in the same range you could buy other android device like galaxy ace. Bada app store is filled with bul**** applications. there are 13000 apps and games in market but only 10 or 20 usefull applications.13000 figure is achived because a lots of theme are in app store. due to this huge no of theme searching for a particular app is troublesome.The no. of free app available in market is not good and none of them are of any use. Web browsing experience is very poor. web browser is crap. address bar hides the top portion of page and you cant click a single link situated on top of the web page. No flash 10.1 support. And many more more disadvantages. if i try to write them all the whole page will be filled.
badelemental said:
Dont buy a bada device! you will be disapppinted. there is no skype or anyother voip app. if you say you want to buy it because of hardware , then i will say a hardware is useless because it has a good software. in the same range you could buy other android device like galaxy ace. Bada app store is filled with bul**** applications. there are 13000 apps and games in market but only 10 or 20 usefull applications.13000 figure is achived because a lots of theme are in app store. due to this huge no of theme searching for a particular app is troublesome.The no. of free app available in market is not good and none of them are of any use. Web browsing experience is very poor. web browser is crap. address bar hides the top portion of page and you cant click a single link situated on top of the web page. No flash 10.1 support. And many more more disadvantages. if i try to write them all the whole page will be filled.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the comment, it really helped me changing my mind lol.
badelemental said:
... there are 13000 apps and games in market but only 10 or 20 usefull applications.13000 figure is achived because a lots of theme are in app store....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
just a clarification ...there aren't 13'000 apps for Bada on the market, there are 13'000 apps on Samsung Apps for any platform (Bada, Android, JavaME, Windows Mobile..), the number of bada apps is nearly less than 3'000 + more than approximately 1'500 themes
(I think this discussion was opened in the wrong section...)
so buying wave II wouldn't be a good idea? problem is the store where i returned my phone are not paying back the money and they want me to buy a phone off their shop and they have no decent android phones (no galaxy ace..) so my only choices are:
-Wave II
-Xperia X10 mini
-sony ericsson vivaz u5i
-LG optimus one
and the phone with the best hardware is wave II...so idk what to buy
@guari: thanx for correcting me! i realised my mistake but could not correct it due to some problems in my net connection.
shad0wboss said:
so buying wave II wouldn't be a good idea? problem is the store where i returned my phone are not paying back the money and they want me to buy a phone off their shop and they have no decent android phones (no galaxy ace..) so my only choices are:
-Wave II
-Xperia X10 mini
-sony ericsson vivaz u5i
-LG optimus one
and the phone with the best hardware is wave II...so idk what to buy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
better search on www.gsmarena.com to know specs of every phone on your list. compare every ones spec before buying.
shad0wboss said:
so buying wave II wouldn't be a good idea? problem is the store where i returned my phone are not paying back the money and they want me to buy a phone off their shop and they have no decent android phones (no galaxy ace..) so my only choices are:
-Wave II
-Xperia X10 mini
-sony ericsson vivaz u5i
-LG optimus one
and the phone with the best hardware is wave II...so idk what to buy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ehh is difficult to choose between those four, but all have the same price? in this case probably the waveII would be the best choice...2th the optimus one, is a good device with froyo, but it has a lower-end hardware, regardless of the operating system, you'll feel the difference with the wave (small, low quality and low resolution display, worst camera, especially for video, really poor gpu, no front camera for videocall...)
You said you'll use it for gaming and skype, if you don't want it now (especially skype will be availabe in future), waveII it's good for you
Bada is new so it has disadvantages but to say that it sucks...No.
For what can you use your phone? To make a call? that works...
To write a message on a forum? that works also...
To use as gps? that works... (bought a life time license for route66)
To play a game while I'm on the toilet? that works also...
regards
btw bada 2.0 is coming
Well to be honest, if the person refuses to refund. The only choice i have is to buy Wave II. Tobe honest, i love playing games on smartphones so these are the things why i would like to buy a smartphone.
-Gaming high end...
-Youtube (good quality video)
Skype is just an addition since wave II got front facing camera but i guess there'll be one in the future. I also got interested in buying Wave II when i heard that android was being ported to the phone and of course there are heck loads of things to do on android rather then Bada in terms of gaming...but i don't want to buy an android phone with low end hardware only because it's android...
shad0wboss said:
Well to be honest, if the person refuses to refund. The only choice i have is to buy Wave II. Tobe honest, i love playing games on smartphones so these are the things why i would like to buy a smartphone.
-Gaming high end...
-Youtube (good quality video)
Skype is just an addition since wave II got front facing camera but i guess there'll be one in the future. I also got interested in buying Wave II when i heard that android was being ported to the phone and of course there are heck loads of things to do on android rather then Bada in terms of gaming...but i don't want to buy an android phone with low end hardware only because it's android...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep in mind that there are still not so much good games for Bada.
Also not all youtube clips play on bada.
And still I like my phone.
z|-|ero said:
Keep in mind that there are still not so much good games for Bada.
Also not all youtube clips play on bada.
And still I like my phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You wouldn't have said that if you would've owned a Samsung galaxy S but surprisingly it's way too expensive compared to Wave II.
What do you mean by "Also not all youtube clips play on bada."
There is no true application for youtube in bada like for android.
It's a link on browser.
Not the same application for Facebook too.
But there is a very good application for Dailymotion.
I have both galaxy and samsung s8500, I use daily the galaxy S because of size screen and facebook application.
But I love my bada phone, very simple to use, good battery life, excellent photo and camera recorder.
You will only be disappointed if you love installing a ton of applications on your phone... If you have a normal utilization (phone, internet, sms, photo, video) wave II is a very good phone very stable. And Bada 2.0 is coming
how knows when bada 2.0 would be comming...and the bad news about bada is that it's not like android where everyone can develop their own apps/games and upload it on the market...i have no idea which set to buy now...
shad0wboss said:
...and the bad news about bada is that it's not like android where everyone can develop their own apps/games and upload it on the market...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and why not? sure that anyone can develop apps and upload them to the market ...I did it
yet for few month, certification is also free...
guari said:
and why not? sure that anyone can develop apps and upload them to the market ...I did it
yet for few month, certification is also free...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
let me rephrase, what i meant is, not MANY people as android has, develop apps for bada. OR to make it simple, bada devs are retarded
shad0wboss said:
You wouldn't have said that if you would've owned a Samsung galaxy S but surprisingly it's way too expensive compared to Wave II.
What do you mean by "Also not all youtube clips play on bada."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He means that youtube videos on desktop version which use flash version more than Flash 9, will not play. But you can get most of the videos on mobile youtube and the quality is awesome on wifi. On 3g, it automatically changes to low quality.
why we want to port WP7 on wave?
1. at this moment all wp7 phones use same CPU (QSD 8250) and it's GPU was "Adreno 200" --- (SGX543MP2(iPad2) > SGX 543 = Adreno 220 > SGX540 (@300MHz) > Geforce ULP [Tegra2] > SGX 540 (@200MHz) = Mali -400 >> Adreno 205 > SGX 535 >> Adreno 200 = SGX 530.)
2. Our wave have the SGX540 GPU,if wp7 port on wave i think it'll more fast than Adreno 200
3. i hear some news ,microsoft will Release a tool it can port almost all android APP to WP7 so in the Future WP7 will be the NO1
4. wp7 more fast than android
I known it's very hard to do ,it just my opinion if it's wrong please forgive me
sorry for my bad english
3 or 4 users work on Android port, without full function... so NOT successfully finished. Since months.
If you have free time, please start with your project to port WP7...
We all count on you.
Good Luck
Its very hard to port the WP7 to wave because WP7 used only qualcomm processer so far but wave using hummingbird processer..porting android is somewhat easier than WP7 because galaxy s and wave almost share the same hardware..also i dont think you can achieve solid performance in wave with other os..
yes winphone 7 has 18 points at the html5 test, even bada 1.2 has 187 very inteligent. a system that can nothing even playing divx to port it on a device that has a system that can more. you should by a phone7 device, than we all are happy.
Of course, bada is a good system
I think that we don't obtain a significative advance in porting Windows Phone 7 to our waves, because Win7 doesn't have much more apps and it is not as extended as Android. You can try with MeeGo or Maemo but the result will be the same: not a really benefit.
The only OSs which are really interesting are iOS (extremely difficult to port) and Android (which oleg_k and the other devs are working at).
yes android is the best os to port, and maybe ios, would also be possible the wave and iphone are nearly the same in things of hardware.
Porting ANY closed-source operating system is next to impossible. The effort required for such a task is way out of scale and would require dozens of high class experts doing disassembly and binary patching, custom drivers, etc.
Phones hardware platforms are based on dedicated PCB layouts and even having same components in different phones gives no guarantee they are connected same way, to same processor PINs, not mentioning that same processor types come in different packaging. When the phone is not based on the very SAME board as 'donor' device, you can simply forget about putting closed-source OS there.
what about mango, tango, apollo?
what about mango, tango, apollo?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, very easy task. Also Zumba, Pumba and Dumba possible.
Best Regards
adfree said:
Yes, very easy task. Also Zumba, Pumba and Dumba possible.
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the only possible OS besides Android is maybe HP's WebOS. Even if it's half losed source, it's built on top of linux just as Android and the root image is accessible (I already downloaded it ). But even this would be a risky project, as the kernel is not the same version (WebOS 2.2.1 is built on 2.6.29 if I remember well) and the video driver and phone part is totally different...
adfree said:
Yes, very easy task. Also Zumba, Pumba and Dumba possible.
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL!!! i didnt ask if its possible or not. but they said porting wp7 is not interesting .
maybe pumba possible? )
adfree said:
Yes, very easy task. Also Zumba, Pumba and Dumba possible.
Best Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what about Mumba, Sumba and Kumba ??
ispanecaaaa said:
what about Mumba, Sumba and Kumba ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And there we go... Now microsoft have to choose new names for windows 7.2, 7.3 and 7.4 :-/ ;-p
duxxyuk said:
And there we go... Now microsoft have to choose new names for windows 7.2, 7.3 and 7.4 :-/ ;-p
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pumba would be great
LOL... DUMBa is a great name for the next microsoft release
i can´t see any advantage is porting wp7 to wave
in fact the only advantages i see in porting android is because of the zillion apps available and the fact its an open OS
if i could have all those apps (or even half..) for bada, i would keep bada
i tried some android phones and some wm7 phones and i feel them slower than my wave 8500
the only 1 that feels as speedy as the wave is the iphone 4
ispanecaaaa said:
what about Mumba, Sumba and Kumba ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol
yes i found some opensource apps, maybe some of them can be ported easy, the games should be easier cause they all using opengl, thank god that the opensource community exists.
my brother has a wp7 phone and i love it. i search through the market and it has lot of interesting games and apps(wp7 was released after bada). imo its much better than bada.
73nokian said:
my brother has a wp7 phone and i love it. i search through the market and it has lot of interesting games and apps(wp7 was released after bada). imo its much better than bada.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So sell bada phone and buy something with WP. Nobody keep you here