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"For us, the cost of going from good to great is a clean break from the past. To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series."
http://blogs.msdn.com/ckindel/archi...e-new-windows-phone-developer-experience.aspx
He also specifically mentions developers in it for learning and fun. I have to think they'll embrace free apps and not charge a dev $99 to submit an app if it's going to be free.
Another softie's blog post on the topic... http://www.artificialignorance.net/...ne-7-series-developers-developers-developers/
Yupe, and all WM5.x, WM6.x applications will NOT run on WP7:
To enable the fantastic user experiences you’ve seen in the Windows Phone 7 Series demos so far we’ve had to break from the past. To deliver what developers expect in the developer platform we’ve had to change how phone apps were written. One result of this is previous Windows mobile applications will not run on Windows Phone 7 Series.
Well, this is just a NEW mobile OS, it is not an upgrade / update of current WM, this kinda expected.
From the article:
ckindle article said:
We took the feedback we gathered from developers, looked at the full potential of Windows Phone 7 Series and landed on 3 basic goals for the platform we’re delivering;
1. Enable end users to be able to personalize their phone experience through a large library of innovative, compelling, games and applications.
2. Enable developers to profit.
3. Advance the “3 screen plus cloud” vision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
I hope a "launcher" like still possible? Microsoft mentioned that we can put app as a tile in the start screen. I am wondering if that app would be some kind of app launcher ... icons grid
ckindle article said:
When we talk with developers we hear them talk about three different “currencies”: making money, learning, and recognition. Some developers are in it for the money. They are either literally being paid to write code or they are writing code with the hope it will generate coin.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This could mean professional mobile developer who earn and make money for living developing mobile applications.
Give them free tools! free submission charge! That would certainly be more attractive.
ckindle article said:
Other developers tell us they are interested in advancing their knowledge – love of the game. They love learning about computers, programming, games, social connections, etc… So they build software to learn. They profit by being smarter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does this mean "hobbyist" aka XDA dev?
ckindle article said:
Other developers are clearly motivated by pride. Maybe there’s a bit of money and learning involved, but to these developers being noticed or recognized as doing wickedly epic sh*t is top of the list for how they measure profit.
We think all three “currencies” are valid and important and we are explicitly trying to build the platform and developer experience to support “profit” in each.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or this?
From what I'm reading MS is actually listening to all of us and I think that is a damn good thing.
gogol said:
Definitely WP7 is customizable, this is good, but how far the customization will be? For sure, no more Sense UI, TouchFlo kind of customization, nor SpB Mobile Shell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?
RAMMANN said:
As far as I know it OEMs are not allowed to add their own UI extension, but I didn't hear it that you can't just add a 3rd party app like Morbid Shell. It's only an app, and you can install apps, can't you!?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's much more than an app.
@gogol Tiles can also be shortcuts. But I doubt that one tile can link to multiple apps.
seed_al said:
It's much more than an app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know what Morbid Shell is. But by definition it's an app. You download it from Marketplace or somewhere and install the cab. Sense is not a cab but part of the ROM and you can say part of the OS. That's the difference as I see it.
Catalyst
WP7 is the catalyst that is getting me back into school to learn code. I have a degree in electrical engineering, but with the possibilities unfolding in the mobile OS world today, I want to be apart of that. The Star Trek dream has begun.
Don't expect any Haret.exe this time around.
This has turned into the same crap Apple did, a retarded OS for retards that have no clue in anything, but like the "oh so cool" flashy menus.
I think in regards to haret we are forgetting one very important thing as we compare this to iphone
jailbreak does broaden the possibilities on the iphone so I'm not so sure this is the total end of haret
what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.
hyellow said:
what if the tiles based home screen is just a today plugin like Sense is, wouldn't we be able to disable it? if so, maybe the devs here @ xda can come with a kickass UI xperience. i've got some great and unique ideas... too bad i'm not a codewarrior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure that the start screen on WP7 is definitely not a plug-in of any kind. It's hardcoded to the system and as far as we have been told no one is allowed to write different UI's on top of it. Not to say that it won't be possible. It just won't be carriers and OEM's doing it.
So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.
~Johnny said:
So basically... this means we probably won't be seeing apps like Opera Mobile (or any custom web browsing rendering engine), and things like that, that are really required to be written in native code for speed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't believe so. These are still apps. MS is creating a single baseline that all developers will be able to use so the platform is uniform and easier to develop for. This will create a stable Windows Mobile experience and hopefully make it more enjoyable for noobs and vets alike without providers and manufacturers messing it up. Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.
Opera and Opera Mini are simply applications so they should be able to work once developed for the new UI and OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not that simple.
Of course
seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
seed_al said:
It's not that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain.
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.
And I have no problem at all with Opera Mini, except Flash ... but for that, I use SkyFire or YouTube app.
Opera Mini would be my top app to port to WP7 ... because I doubt the new IE is good to use.
vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Opera Mini, on the other hand, is of course perfectly possible, it's not a browser really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vangrieg said:
Re browsers, you just won't ever get decent performance with managed code, so you need native. Even if you could, porting the whole thing to a new language would just be too expensive. Most people just seriously underestimate how complex browser engines are these days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, and Opera have their own engine. They still have not even released their Android port. Opera Mobile on WP7 is not going to happen anytime soon.
Same for lots of other things that heavily rely on native code or are hard to port over.
Sorry, guys. It's just not that simple.
Hey!
So I want to buy the HTC Mozart, but I am not quite sure, because if there is no good community it wont be worth the money. So does anyone know if somebody is working on a root or jailbreak for wp7?
It would make the platform even greater
Thanks in advance!
People are working on it. I'd be surprised if there isn't a jailbreak available in 3 months after it is released.
Ok thanks I am just interested as the beta was already available and the roms have leaked in the htc Mozart category.
To general!
~~Tito~~
the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
Made2Last said:
the windows mobile community is the reason this message board exists. I wouldn't worry.
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"HardSPL" is a bootloader that allows custom Windows ROMs - like flashing to BIOS in your PC to a 3rd party version
Windows doesn't have the concept of a "root or jailbreak" because there is no root account or Jail Shell.
ericc191 said:
This ^
Also, XDA calls "root or jailbreak" for WM "HardSPL"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WM (Windows Mobile) is not equivalent to WP or (Windows Phone) Windows Mobile is the past, Windows Phone is Microsoft moving forward. I think they might actually have something with this new OS
Mhh interesting Thanks!
I tested the OS and it feels great, like my iphone 2g at first and after JB i noticed that it is crap without JB XD so just wondering ^^
~~Tito~~ said:
To general!
~~Tito~~
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again To general.
This just discusses WP7, it does not contribute anything developmental wise, just discussion wise .
~~Tito~~
I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
The only thing that'll make sense right now is unbrand phones, to get carriers out of the loop in regards of updates.
Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Some of these people think wp7 is ios with a new skin. Let them keep asking about this, Lol.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not think that this is IOS with a skin!!
I just wanted to know if something like jb or root will come!
Not JB per se but only the concept of being able to do stuff MS doesnt want to!
@Tom Servo
I am not sure but isnt it running on a silverlight platform so it would be rather easy to develop different apps?
A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.
Tom Servo said:
A large part of the base system, especially UI, is .NET code but uses a different framework called Iris UIX. It's a descendant of the MCE graphics framework, and also used in the Zune desktop software.
Third party applications are forced to use Silverlight instead.
That's also why there's a disconnect between UI features and performance between the first party and third party apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh ok thanks!
Now thats kinda stupid from them.....
A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.
Tom Servo said:
I don't see much of a point in jailbreaking, because there's absolutely squat in regards to API documentation of Iris UIX. No one will be able to write up alternates to the system components.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
Tom Servo said:
A long time ago, they hired more developers to work on UIX. Seems like they were more occupied porting it to mobile devices than documenting it and prepping it for general release, or something.
I still hope that it'll be made public at some point in time. It seems to be a way better solution than WPF, judging both the phones and the Zune software, even tho the majority of it is still .NET. Maybe a little less flexible, tho. Seems like some teams over at Microsoft went like "**** it, this is overengineered slow crap" and continued to work on MCML, which turned into UIX.
WPF was on the table long before the flashy Zune client ever came to be, which is also mostly .NET. That tells you something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot! I just saw the app you created looks interessting
Is it in the market yet?
So as you develop such apps i have to ask you:
Do you think the problems you mentioned can be overcome like MS says.
Like in one or two months?
Or would you say that the market will not evolve as much as apple and android?
vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My reason exactly!
vangrieg said:
How about enabling PInvoke, getting the same access to native WinCE APIs OEMs have? Getting access to filesystem, sideloading, tethering, you name it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft doesnt allow native code for 3rd parties, amd pretty much said they'll keep it that way. I doubt WP7 will support unsafe code for 3rd parties. It's too obvious a workaround...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Yes, yes, yes.. There are multiple versions of this thread floating around.. and Yes I did a search for them but none of them are quite what I was looking for. I've been seeing and reading things recently, ok the article isn't so recent but me reading it is. Anyway, It talks about being able to compile recent iphone apps for use on Android phones. I know they are written in certain language (objective-c) and Androids are (java).. But, as stated on that site:
“Well with no code changes, about 2 hours to have the graphics tweaked (thanks to @pneal), I was able to port Happy Peg over to Android.”
In regards to why I want this... I want to be able to play Urban Rivals on my android.. Yes, this can be played by just going to there website, but it runs extremely slow and it wasn't meant for people with sausage fingers like myself.
So I guess the Question would be.. Would you be able to Decompile an iphone app and recompile for Adobe AIR and then use that app on an android phone?
I appreciate the support and look forward to seeing some constructive thoughts on the matter.
You know what I want? CANABALT! They made it for the iPhone and not Android and im pissed.
Just found this Video on Youtube. A company is developing a way to convert Objective-C or Java (and others) into and out of HMLVN. So this would allow converting of iphone apps to Android apps.
http://xmlvm.org/overview/ IS there website.. They say the only way to download the source code is subversion.. but I don't know what that means.
Subversion: method by which governments control their sheeple. See WMD's.
Absolutely no help there leebo.
iam87x said:
Just found this Video on Youtube. A company is developing a way to convert Objective-C or Java (and others) into and out of HMLVN. So this would allow converting of iphone apps to Android apps.
http://xmlvm.org/overview/ IS there website.. They say the only way to download the source code is subversion.. but I don't know what that means.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion_(software)
I am trying to see if anybody in this thread would like to start developing a beginning to a Windows Phone "Jailbreak App store" meaning that the whole cummunity of homebrew apps could all be in one place. As I am aware to jailbreak ios and install "Cydia" you must hold the power and home button in a certain order. Since all Windows phones have the power button, unlock, and volume I think that this could work if a similar process like what is done in ios will be done with windows phone since they are both closed source operating systems. I am not a developer I truely dont know all the details of how something like this could work. I am asking if the whole Windows phone cummunity could work together and get this going.
Thanks
Maybe XDA-DEV could manage the server so it would grow fastly if every dev who post his app in the thread automaticly to the appstore but only final realeases or only apps who cant brick the device. Cool idea but to let a server work cost money and who pays it ?
dstyl said:
Maybe XDA-DEV could manage the server so it would grow fastly if every dev who post his app in the thread automaticly to the appstore but only final realeases or only apps who cant brick the device. Cool idea but to let a server work cost money and who pays it ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole Windows Phone cummunity could pay for the servers together. Maybe there could be some awesome paid homebrew apps in there that could supply money for the server.
Xda doesn't support piracy.
Sent from my Touch-IT HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I don't support the "crack paid apps" either.
My ideas for these "alternative marketplace" is for those developers/hobbies to make their apps and allow others to use it.
I don't mind the "homebrew" apps is chargable, coz if you look at some apps in Cydia, it also have some apps which chargable due to that app is rejected by Apple.
Same thing goes here. M$ need developer to pay USD99 to get an account, with each FREE apps posted charge for USD25! This will highly PUSH away the developers.
Further more, NOT all regions/countries are supported by M$ marketplace (like my country are not).
So this is a good alternative for developers to post their app.
hardik_hrc said:
Xda doesn't support piracy.
Sent from my Touch-IT HD7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
he ment a WP7 Version of CYDIA
liamhere said:
he ment a WP7 Version of CYDIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks this is to be a WP7 cydia no piracy involved at all. I am trying to get this started and hoping that we start somewhere.
shawchyn said:
I don't support the "crack paid apps" either.
My ideas for these "alternative marketplace" is for those developers/hobbies to make their apps and allow others to use it.
I don't mind the "homebrew" apps is chargable, coz if you look at some apps in Cydia, it also have some apps which chargable due to that app is rejected by Apple.
Same thing goes here. M$ need developer to pay USD99 to get an account, with each FREE apps posted charge for USD25! This will highly PUSH away the developers.
Further more, NOT all regions/countries are supported by M$ marketplace (like my country are not).
So this is a good alternative for developers to post their app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since i want this to be cummunity thing and want to push this forward and i forgot to mention these advantages with an alternative marketplace also.
actuly we have one in develpment alredy!
actuly we have one in develpment alredy!
we are curently making it only for cab updates but i dont see why we couldent impement this
as me and winco are alredy working on wcabsender and he has alredy made beta version of W.I.N.C.O.'s XapAssistant v.0.5.0
we have to make web server for cab files and such anyway i dont see why xaps would be any diffrent why pay more than one server when we could just have one and let it self make money!??
i gess pm me with detales if you like i will look them over!
seams like a nice alternitive
jackrabbit72380 said:
actuly we have one in develpment alredy!
we are curently making it only for cab updates but i dont see why we couldent impement this
as me and winco are alredy working on wcabsender and he has alredy made beta version of W.I.N.C.O.'s XapAssistant v.0.5.0
we have to make web server for cab files and such anyway i dont see why xaps would be any diffrent why pay more than one server when we could just have one and let it self make money!??
i gess pm me with detales if you like i will look them over!
seams like a nice alternitive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a GOOD NEWS!
I wish to see it work soon.
jackrabbit72380 said:
actuly we have one in develpment alredy!
we are curently making it only for cab updates but i dont see why we couldent impement this
as me and winco are alredy working on wcabsender and he has alredy made beta version of W.I.N.C.O.'s XapAssistant v.0.5.0
we have to make web server for cab files and such anyway i dont see why xaps would be any diffrent why pay more than one server when we could just have one and let it self make money!??
i gess pm me with detales if you like i will look them over!
seams like a nice alternitive
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is great news I would like for some of the developers to take over this.
anyone want to just start and alternative marketplace for homebrew and everything else?
Sounds like an amazing idea. Microsoft don't allow apps that promote voice plans, would be nice to have an alternative store to list a full version of my app (it allows you to buy and remove value packs for 2° of which some are voice packs)
I am / was working on a homebrew Marketplace aswell. The listing and downloading of XAPs is not the problem. You just Need a small search algorithm and a database to search and find the apps but the big Problem is installing them. Unless you have the DFT (I guess it was them) ROM that allows XAPs installed directly from the web, you wont be able to install any XAP on the device.
Cool thats my 111th post
Ludacris said:
I am / was working on a homebrew Marketplace aswell. The listing and downloading of XAPs is not the problem. You just Need a small search algorithm and a database to search and find the apps but the big Problem is installing them. Unless you have the DFT (I guess it was them) ROM that allows XAPs installed directly from the web, you wont be able to install any XAP on the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right! This the biggest issue!
I guess I could start working on the Store again. I guess it will be done in a few days.
Will allow downloading XAPs, updating them, browsing them. The installing part would have to be made by one of the WP7 hackers - as soon as this is sorted out (as said, it partly is) the store can go online
shawchyn said:
You are right! This the biggest issue!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not realy an issue because the wcabsender program we are working on
will have an esaly updateable data base of servers listed for cab files the list will be a file called CabData.xml wich we are curently wrighing
it curently contains links to all of xbmods cab files so the program will download and up date your phone and make the hole process very simple
insted of downloading them one buy one and usein wp7 cab sender,bat file
anyway teh cabs can contain up to 60 .xap files and or other content not just apps but content for custom updates to actuly modify the os it self!
users are alredy able to make custom updates much like a carrer would adding addisional features such as new wallpapers ring tones accent colors and even more!
so say we had a new custom game.cab that would incluude not only the new game .xap but also new ringtones & walpapers and assents from teh game or even custom icons for your default icons so your hole phone could look like the new game you just got sorta like premeum themes for on the xbox360 dashbord!
the store is made up of servers from he list and auto updated and loged with in the program you could tecnicly upload your xap to anyware and simple send me the url to add to the server list right now and the store would be opened at teh time of beta relese of our program! our program is close to beta relese but we still have much work to be done on it if you want to get involved please pm me i have more art to do and winco has more code to wright we do not curently even have all of the online avalible cab urls listed in the CabData.xml thare are curently about 10 just for testing!
we ar the only to people working on this project with the okay from xbmod as he is aware of what weare up to but im in the us and winco is in slovika and dose not speak good english infact has to translate everyhang i send him and he dosent get most of my notes teh hole consept was thought up of teh back to the future rom v2 and winco has never even seen teh move he dosent quite grasp teh consept but has managed to make the program a reality not theamed exactly how i had in mind but never the less my idia is now a reality soon to be relesed we could realy use some help with a couple more members on bord we could surely use the help! to get thangs done and out quicker we both have other projects as well and we are both in difrent time zones wich makes thangs even more diffucult winco dosent have time to browse teh forms or post updates like i do!
hes just to bizzy and to be honist so am i!
the offical wcabsender development thread is in the hd2 section please post thare! or pm me! if you have any talent services or advice to offer!
link: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1278511
But that Thing is on the Desktop side, right?
Most (atlease for me) would like to see the xap file direct install thru air to the phone, instead of go thru the desktop.
ofc, but if I got their idea right its a Desktop app that allows sending CABs to the phone
Hi,
Like you know, windows will release a beta of w9 in somes days, and they said that they'll do an hybrid system for all platform. Did you think there'll be an emulator or anything different to run somes x86 app like a "computer" ?
We have awaiting fo a while a jailbreak for 8.1, but if w9 give us the opportunity to run x86 programs it'll be better, hope they'll release this soons to take a look.
What do you think about this?
Regards
No, only metro apps will be universal, not x86 ones
mod edit
On topic. I can't see why Microsoft would give us the ability to run apps outside of the Metro sandbox. Although I am surprised that they don't try and entice the open source community into contributing to the store. We all know that they'd love to see more quality apps on there.
Hello my friends @andTab Even if "somebody" would give you the jailbreak for RT 8.1, I bet you won't be really happy with that:
Ofc it would give some great possibilities, but its not like you can run many x86-programs on JB RT, because you can only emulate it and the performance is,....
[how to say it nice],..... not optimal xD
you can hardly play games like "Heroes of Might and Magic 3" but that is the maximum. As I understand you that wouldn't be enough (plz correct me if im wrong)
But for users loving to play around and start i.e. JDownloader with a loadingtime of ~5min; or those, using a lot of pure .NET 4 programs it would be really cool.
[But most of them are happy enough with a jailbroken RT].
Why am I writing this?
I just wanted to ask you politely, if you could edit your post, because it sounds really offensive.
BUT I also wanted to be cooperative, and give you some informations...
Ontopic:
I think the hope, that ms would be nice to us, is gone...
I strongly suggest you, to dual-boot WinRT8.0-JB & WinRT8.1 !!!
joke:[until somebody tell us how to "open the bootloader" and boot for example a linux-distro. (perhaps via soldering a hardware-flasher and reflash that damn thing )]
Cheers
Blade
I removed the majority of the unnecessary and negative comments. Lets try to keep the rest of this thread on track now please.
It will be Windows 10
1 windows will work on all the devices, laptop, phone, and TAB!!!!
9 or 10, I don't have a lot of hope right now for Windows on ARM... I keep hearing rumors that unlike x86 Windows 10, the ARM version (Windows RT) is going to be "combined with windows phone" whatever that means, and loose the desktop. Sounds like a dumb-ed down phone OS to me... and nothing like what I'd want on my Surface RT, and definitely not what I'd hoped for which was basically an ARM version of the full-blown Windows 10 OS, with and unlocked dekstop, windowed store apps, etc.
But, since Microsoft hasn't actually demoed the ARM version of Threshold I guess we don't know anything for sure.
@mark manning Can you move this to General please. It should not be in DEV/Hacking
wcomhelp said:
@mark manning Can you move this to General please. It should not be in DEV/Hacking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moved