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Here are the details of the Nokia/Microsoft partnership
Nokia will deliver mapping, navigation and location based services to the Windows Phone 7 eco system.
Nokia will provide imaging and hardware design expertise, carrier billing connections and receive payments for its intellectual properties.
Nokia will be paying royalties to Microsoft for each Windows Phone 7 device they make, but they’ll receive payments “in the billions” from Microsoft.
A Nokia-branded app store will be built on the Windows Marketplace infrastructure.
Source
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
I have seen my share of phones (like the same 5200 Nokia which was one of their early attempts to crack into the SE music market) and I personally have always hated the UI. I thought it to be difficult to navigate and unintuitive (I owned a P1, W960i, and Vivaz which admitted are not S^3 devices).
Which point of view do you not understand? Both companies did it as a matter of survival. People will argue about who needed who more but everyone does benefit tremendously:
Nokia - Symbian was dying. Nokia is huge in Asia but lacks significant presence in USA. What Nokia wants out of the deal is a smartphone platform that makes them relevant. They probably believe with their superior telephony and hardware they will be able to jump ahead of the pack.
Microsoft - Windows Phone did not have the wildly successful start that Microsoft would have hoped for. They wanted something that would allow them to pick up more customers.
I am one of those customers that drools about the possibility of a Nokia W8 phone (N8 with Windows on it) or a W7 (E7 with Windows on it). I have always thought the two more balanced phone makers out there were Nokia and SE. Good optics, good battery life, well built phones. SE suffers from too much design reuse and intercompeting phone and Nokia in the past could have made better looking phones, but good phones none the less.
Nokia really needed it. Smartphone sales are a huge chunk of everyone's revenue now and this will give them a promising platform to be part of.
Why Windows as opposed to Android I am not touching with a 10 foot pole. That will go nowhere fast.
sure haven't said:
Other than ovi maps (which I've been told is good), can someone honestly explain to me why this is a big deal? Hasn't Nokia not been popular since their candy-bar phones in the late 90's??
I know I had a Nokia 5200 music phone in 2007, and it had some issues but was a great phone. But I just don't get it...
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Nokia are the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in Europe. They have the biggest brand as well (IMO I can't back that up with any facts but it'd be a widespread opinion).
It's like Motorola or Palm, how big they are in the US. Motorola's "Revival" with Android did wonders for the Android OS. Nokia's with Windows Phone will have a similar or dare I say greater effect.
The ovi store has around 40,000 applications. 3.5m apps are downloaded per day from Ovi Store.
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
brummiesteven said:
Nokia have always been true innovators, have a look at some of their old models. Dual Sliders with a keypad and media controls (n95), rotating designs, flip designs. They've had it all and will no doubt bring their influence to WP.
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Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
nicksti said:
Nokia really did not do flip all that much; they are best known for their candybar phones from back in the day, but I do agree with you. The N95 was a phone well ahead of its time in terms of features and optics. In my mind Nokia is #1, SE #2 in optics. Samsung and LG had a handful of flagship camera phones, but Nokia and SE put out consistantly good ones in varying priced phones.
Nokia will be a differentiator in the handset choice war. Nokia vs Motorola just like back in the day, except Motorola has been through a long, dark tunnel.
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Yeah the flip I was referring to was that one old phone aggess ago. It was quite a brick but it was a phone on the outside and you flip it open and it turned into a laptop (well a mini phone laptop thing).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_9110_Communicator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_E90_Communicator
The first edition was kinda like a Motorola Atrix for the late 90s
Edit: Also I agree with you on optics, the N95 is the best Camera Phone I've owned to date (and my last Nokia Phone). N8 photos look amazing.
The thing about Nokia for me is build quality........
I had a 3310 "back in the day" and an N95 before my HD2, both those phones had the absolute crap beaten out of them and didnt even suffer as much as a loose battery cover......
Obviously I cant be certain that kind of quality applies to all their phones but in my experience it has been solid and I would seriously consider a Nokia phone running WP7
Oh yeah, as the guy above me mentioned...... camera's......
The N95 camera was awesome. Not that I ever used it much. Im sure some people actually give a crap about that sort of thing though.
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
sure haven't said:
Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers?
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They did and they were/are.
Nokia phones have always been the most popular, most bought etc. In 2007 Symbian had a smartphone marketshare of 67%. Symbian is still going strong in many European and Asian markets:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/18/smartphone-market-android-win-nokia-rim-lose
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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the Nokia phone's hardware was/is pretty awesome. They were never best sellers because of the software, thus the deal.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
When I think of Nokia the first thing that comes to mind is hardware not software. Fortunately, the software part is handled by Windows Phone 7. I am very interested in a Nokia WP7 because the build quality will be outstanding and the optics will awesome. Add Mango to the equation and it'll be a hit, hopefully.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
sure haven't said:
I appreciate the replies guys, many thanks.
Interesting takes. I'll be honest, I still don't get it. Nokia phones never really took off, so why would Microsoft make a deal with them? And if Nokia phones were so good, why weren't they best sellers? Bleh, I just asked the same question twice. Nevermind me, I'm in long-weekend mode.
/the Nokia concepts do look pretty tight
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The answer is different depending on the region.
Nokia is big in Africa, Asia (incl India & Pakistan) and other developing nations. I recall reading an article explaining how they have a superior business model in these places.
I admit a little ignorance about Nokia in the last year in the UK but I would figure they still do reasonably well and probably took a hit in their high end offering (N series) and business offering (E series).
The E series for them used to be big. Remember, the E series before the E72 supported BB service and was wildly popular. Fast forward to now, when is the last time you have seen a Nokia smartphone advertise on T-Mobile / Verizon / AT&T? I know I cannot recall.
It cost Microsoft more than it cost Nokia, so Microsoft has more to lose. They both have lots to gain. The only thing I do hope is Nokia does not hoodwink Microsoft (keep developing Symbian, use some of what it learnt from WP7, and then push it out to compete).
But I think lots of people on this board would love to have a Mango Nokia phone.
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
Good to learn Ovi maps are coming to all WP7 platform.
doministry said:
I'm curious to see how this Nokia - WP7 marriage will infuence interface and customization.
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Nokia claims they will leave it stock despite having the green light to customize. I bet their thinking that they will have their own Marketplace area where only Nokia phones will be able to get software that will give them the leg up on the competition since they can put out some good stuff.
...until they stumble onto XDA and see people are using their stuff on HTC phones. Then things get ugly.
Yes, I can assure you Nokia is a strong brand and very famous in Asia. I would prefer Nokia's hardware over Samsung or HTC when Windows Phone 7 is officially available from Nokia.
Nokia is strong not only in Asia and Africa, it's strong in Europe as well. The only part of the world where it isn't is the US.
Also, contrary to a popular media story, they don't have big problems with sales, which are growing (albeit their market share declines because others are growing faster). They have a huge problem with costs, and specifically with huge R&D costs which are killing their bottom line. Symbian is doing rather well on mid- and low-end smartphones, but they long ago needed something else for the high end. They started development there but the costs are prohibitive. That's exactly what HP will find out in a year or two.
HP won't have those issues because WebOS does not have the issues that Symbian has. WebOS is a decent, modern OS right now. Symbian is just an aging OS that they continued to throw features in year after year. In the end, it can do almost anything, but it's a train wreck to use, and it's ugly - point blank.
Also, HP makes a ton of money in the PC Hardware/Printer business and can easily fund WebOS development. They also have their own Mainframe UNIX OS (HP-UX) and they sell that hardware as well. Funding Palm will not be a problem for HP, just as Funding Visual Studio/WP7 isn't an issue for Microsoft, or funding Solaris won't be an issue for Oracle...
It's not like Nokia doesn't have cash. It just costs too much to develop and maintain an OS if you aren't a software company. With multiple OEMs costs are spread, while when you go it alone you assume 100%. So you have to either make super profitable devices like Apple or to make dozens of them to make sure you sell lots and lots. HP is flushing money down the toilet, and they'll waste more over the years.
Nokia has been developing and maintaining Symbian for decades. They're as much a Software company as Palm was.
And the reason why their phones don't sell here is only half in fault of Symbian. In addition to having an OS they neglected to work on crap like Maemo/MeeGo/etc. they also used ridiculously cheap internals, put them in a nice build quality, and thought people here (many of us with money to spare) would buy that ****.
Who wants to buy an N8 with a crappy nHD screen resolution, Symbian, terrible processor, lacking in RAM, etc. for $600+ when they can get an iPhone or Android device with twice the specs and much more to offer? Cause the camera is good? Lol. Oh, it's cause Nokia build quality is awesome, even though maybe 75% of people put their smartphones in a case, anyways...
It has nothing to do with that. Nokia did what Microsoft did with Windows Mobile and they got plowed. That's what the issue is. Cost is not a factor, although developing a new OS from scratch MAY be. But nothing was stopping Nokia from revamping the Symbian UI and boosting their smartphone specs up (and using higher res screens). While cost may be a factor now, Symbian's "demise" wasn't instant. It happened over years-worth of time and if Nokia had been doing what they should have (just like Microsoft with Windows Mobile) they would not be in this situation today.
Microsoft basically took Windows CE and put a new user experience on top of it then called it Windows Phone 7. Nokia could have done the same with Symbian.
But to say that HP will have troubles with WebOS is what I really took notice of. It's a bit of a Naive statement to make.
People will probably even buy HP printers to get the WebOS tablets that come attached to them, Lol...
Now, an interesting tidbit is that every major smartphone OS that is developed for a manufacturer's own device seems to be packaged in terrible hardware (as in the internals/specs) - except Apple. Nokia, RIM, and Palm all have/had terrible internals in their phone. Even if in some cases the software was completely awesome (WebOS). Even then, Apple makes several concessions in their products to keep margins up (iPad 2/iTouch cameras, no HSPA+ in the iPhone, going from PowerPC to Intel on the Desktop, etc.).
Much has been made of the Windows Phone slow start with maybe less that 2 million units in the hands of consumers. However I think that the recent predictions by Gartner, IDC etc... of about 20% by 2015 might be a little low. I think by 2015 Android and Windows Phone will have parity in software features, hardware and the number of OEM`s supporting them.
I also think the Nokia relationship definately pushes them to over 30% when you consider Nokia`s dominance in growing economies like China, India, Russia, Latin America and Africa. Its also clear how much Nokia needs windows phone to defend these markets against Android..
India and China alone are expected to see their middle class grow 10 fold by 2025. India currently has a middle class population of about 50 million people..
Its definately not just about whats happening in the North America or Western Europe!!!
This graphic tells the current state of play worldwide...
http://rww.readwriteweb.netdna-cdn....02/global-os-marketshare-feb.2011-o-27904.php
We'll see how well WP7 and Nokia really work together. From what we know, Bing Maps will get stuff from Ovi Maps (or be replaced by Ovi Maps?) and a Nokia App store will be added on top of the Windows Phone Marketplace. This might be nice for Nokia but I don't know if other phone makers will like this.
Also Nokia will not use WP7 in its current form. What that means is not very clear, but the start screen with all the pinned apps and stuff might not be there on nokia phones.
^ last I read, Nokia wont be doing any changes to the OS.
Yeah that's what I read some time ago which actually didn't bother me:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
slimshady322 said:
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
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That article is very misleading. The part they claim to be a translated quote of Öistämö's comments was not that at all. It was a quote of a blog's interpretation of the comment that "Nokia will not adopt Windows Phone environment as it is today". Considering how vague that comment is, it could be taken many ways.
Besides, if Microsoft were to allow Nokia to make such fundamental UI changes, after forbidding HTC from doing the same, it could destroy their relationship with their other manufacturers.
Nokia will be adding things like better camera app, Navtek Data/ovi maps into the whole wp7 system, the OVI store, and differentiating itself with its hardware. The general OS will be untouched as to provide the consistent user experience across devices MS is looking for.
I personally cannot wait for the high end Nokia Windows Phones. And I believe they will also force the other OEM's to make better hardware as well to compete.
If nokia wont change anything on wp7 they will fail. Symbian maybe outdated and old but it has lots of nice features. Nokia fanboys may find wp7 lacking on every aspect. And what about the low-end phones from nokia? Will it too have wp7 on it. Nokia definitely made a wrong choice here. Nokia dominates on the Massess.
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
ebzrascal said:
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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ewww, this will not sit well with people....
remember how pissed people were when they found they needed to buy vista ultimate office wildcard edition for xyz featureset ?
ok, now compound that pissed off consumer with a 2 year contract, and having to upgrade a piece of hardware ($600 off contract, no upgrade eligiblilty) to get xyz featureset...
I predict some pissed folks !
this is where apple got it right, and ms should have learned already:
same phone, just more storage
android?
a billion phones + 1 click root = any software you ever wanted
There's no way to predict anything for 2015 with any reliability. The best you can do is take current factors and extrapolate. Currently phones have very short lives (1-2 years in the hands of a customer), and without loyalty market shares change dramatically very fast. There's nothing that prevents users from switching - "apps" are too cheap to be a real barrier, and on Android they don't even serve this purpose because so many are free.
So there's brands and distribution power. Arguably, the only real smartphone brand is owned by Apple. Everything else is up in the air.
That being said, WP7 needs dozens of phones, and not just from Nokia, to have a sizable market.
Its also interesting to see what Apple is going to do with that billion dollar datacentre.
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
ebzrascal said:
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
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Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
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That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
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If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
N8ter said:
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
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I disagree Nokia has the Brand loyalty not Symbian at least with the average customer... Nokia stands for Reliabilty and Quality in hardware and optics.
N8ter said:
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
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When Nokia devices arrive with Mango built in there will be no functionality disparity!!! between WP7 and RIM/ANDROID/IOS
N8ter said:
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
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Just checked Expansys and the N8 is selling for 400ukp and the E72 250ukp which is definately comparible to Android and Blackberry...
N8ter said:
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
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Well they are giving WP7 a huge push in distribution to India, China, Russia, Latin America and African markets. China already has a smartphone market which half the size of the US market and its exected to grow rapidly. They are also bring functionality to Windows Phone like OVI Maps and Navigation.
N8ter said:
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
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I would expect support for Hummingbird, Tegra 3 etc to come later when Windows Phone is established and are selling hundreds of millions of devices
N8ter said:
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
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Why would the OEM`s want to depend soley on Android ?? Eventually I see Motorola and especially Sony Ericsson making Windows Phones probably in late 2012...
pcmag is sensatinalising things, stating android was sued into stopping wifi tethering...then going to be sued out of existwance by apple... now this
source
http://mobile.pcmag.com/device2/art.../www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2384840,00.asp
Analyst Says Real Microsoft WP7 Sales Are 'Catastrophic'
By Sara Yin Tweet
Russian tech blogger and analyst Eldar Murtazin, the man credited for predicting the Nokia-Microsoft tie-up way back in December, has published a damning report that claims Microsoft sold only 674,000 Windows Phone 7 devices in its first six weeks.
there is more, hit the link
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
mikeeam said:
I don't know their sources.. But, if this is true, our devices are doomed.
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No, they are not. Microsoft is in this for the long haul and have been since WinMo. You think WinMo's sales were good? Look how long the Zune lasted.
Your phone will last longer than most geeks own a handset, and at least longer than the contract people would have signed.
The only doom and gloom the nay-sayers are speculating on is if Mango will be supported by current handsets. I guess you have to panic people somehow.
imho check the pockenow.com comments
actually they tell a FAR better story about thie "sales" number
and let's not forget eldar has been wrong, and a lot. Remember the nexus one being an apple brainchild, yeah he said that...
I mean as far as reporting devices in hand he is good. But some rumors or anything, he sucks
I think we all need to calm down, enjoy our devices, and care less about unofficial announcements and rumours.
i saw few video demos by MS is working really hard to make WP7 THE os to be on mobiles....
and with Nokia on board it looks like MS will be a player as right now HTC is the biggest OEM and their 75% devices are Android.... with nokia in the game i an hoping to see much better HTC devices (as the current HD7 is not good enough)..
i will not bother what ppl say as the mango will speak for it self...
MS also have came up with tools to migrate/redevelop iOS games for WP7 with less effort, come on guys if you are using a smartphone you should be smarter then this..
imho
I am pretty sure the numbers are close to 3-4 million
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. A few high profile phones would help WP7 a lot.
The general public seems to think all smart phones are iPhone. There needs to be a mass marketing campaign to deprogram them.
Not a single person who has used my phone dislikes it. I'm sure if more people knew about it more people would buy it.
I am hoping that the Nokia deal puts Wp7 in the hands of millions more people. IMO it's the best mobile OS out there.
Using 2010 data he claims he received from operators and retailers, Murtazin said Microsoft only sold 674,000 WP7 units in November and December, when you take out the number of phones given to all its employees.
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Using 2010 Data
Take out employee
TIGGAH said:
Android has sooo many sexy new phones coming out. I'm not leaving WP7 but I am jealous of the hardware they use. .
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Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
jtn04 said:
Feel the same way, especially after seeing the galaxy s2 review.
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newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
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android was a largely geek platform before verizon's droid does campaigns...
doministry said:
Whatever it is - 2 or 3 millions, half a year after premiere is catastrophic. If you guys use WM argument, it's a bad one. I mean they are IN it for years and still not beeing able to catchup?
And actually WM finally doesn't exist anymore.
These numbers mean WP7 is selling a bit more devices A MONTH than Android A DAY. Lol.
My intuition says WP7 is not appealing for users en masse.
But market is not something you can just easily predict. Nokia deal will be probably a main changing factor.
Currently with unstoppable Android devices show and lack of any response from WP7 world things will not be better but worse. I'm afraid WP7 will became a "geek" platform.
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How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
A Canalys report just released implies that Q1 2011 shipments for WP7 were in the 2.4 million range. That doesn't contradict the PC Mag report, other than for the people trying to spin the 674,000 sales figures as being for the entire time since release. It does show some steady, but slow growth:
http://wmpoweruser.com/canalys-around-2-4-million-windows-phones-shipped-in-q1-2011/
nicksti said:
How is the WM argument a bad one? My post was in response to someone saying their device was doomed. I will word this very carefully:
Your device is only doomed if development and support ceases to exist. There are two levels of support: Manufacturer (Microsoft) and Community (XDA). WinMo is not totally dead yet because of this site, nor are the devices (HD2 for example) dead yet.
In general, sales matter because without sales companies fold. But in this particular case, Microsoft will continue to do develop and support Windows Phone. The Nokia agreement was the first big, public sign of that.
I do not see Windows Phone 7 being scrapped for a Windows Phone 8 in 2012. Scrapped meaning development and support for Windows Phone 7 ceasing to exist. Will your HTC HD7 get Windows Phone 8? Who knows for sure. But Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
So it would be nice for Windows Phones sales to be 10M in the first month, but not a do or die. If I did not have plans to buy an Android Tablet and replace my old notebook, I would pick up a Trophy right now (cheapest 1GHz phone I can find on the market).
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That is totally true. The development keeps the platform alive and is one of the signs of it's life.
I'd never say MS has scrapped the platform for WP8. Nokia deal... Well it's not that clear for me.
However it's also true MS doesn't hurry bringing some changes which would make the platform better. No new top end devices actually is a catastrophe.
My point was the market is not predictable. So even with MS involvement lack of any success will not push it's development in the future.
ms79723 said:
newer hardware. newer UI. Same experience...might as well just stick with the older Android phones. The hardware doesn't even sway me anymore. Hardware is good enough to play games easily but I kinda need my phone for its phone features. Once you hit those games, battery tanks >.<
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It's not the same experience, if the UI is different... Unless you're using a different definition of "experience." I think that will be the case moreso for WP7 than for Android. There will be less incentive to upgrade a WP7 phone due to the limits on customization and the strict hardware specs, in addition to the "guarantee" that all handsets will get the same OS upgrades
And they say that dual core saves battery life..but that's just referring to usage if the radios were off right? Because I doubt that dual core phones would speed up that radio because reviews don't mention it...so battery life won't be better at all as long as the radio is still eating up power like single core phones.
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The radio is used the same on single and dual core phones. The Dual Cores save battery life regardless. The newer CPUs by default draw less power than the older CPUs, and running two cores at half capacity often results in less draw than running a single core at near full capacity (i.e. media playback, multi-tasking, etc.).
Again, the radio in both are pretty similar, but a more efficient processor will obviously result in less power usage. It's not hard to figure that out...
WP7 all the way for this guy. I kinda like how I'm in the same boat and will be in the same boat as other people with WP7 no matter what device they have. They get an update, I know I'll get the update too.
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The Android Manufacturers are getting better with updates as well. From the way things are looking, Epic 4G/Vibrant users in the US may get Gingerbread around the same time (if not before) WP7 devices get Mango...
IIRC, the Samsung WP7 devices are still having update issues?
nicksti said:
Microsoft is in it to win it, no matter how long it takes.
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That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
I'm honestly tired of people saying Microsoft isn't bringing "big changes to catch up to the competition" then what in the hell is Mango? I mean, I must honestly be dreaming of it's inclusions, right? Nobody consistently *****es at Apple for not releasing OSX updates monthly to "catch Windows" do they? Would I love to see a new feature every day of my life? Sure. But for anybody with half a brain who has viewed the demoes of Mango can see how tightly integrated most of these new features are. One feature feeds into another, which feeds into another, such as the Bing searches. When Apple releases an update yearly for iOS I don't hear complaints.
Some of you guys have unrealistic expectations and have this notion that you can manage Microsoft's resources and marketing better. So, I wonder, why you aren't in their position since you can handle it so much better. I continue to point out that Microsoft hasn't gotten to their position by making bad decisions, and have actually succeeded at almost every thing they have ever entered... Regardless of what was necessary.
Mango addresses a significant number of complaints, and these features aren't implemented in two days time. Software development takes a significant amount of time. We have companies dedicated to one program, ONE, and it takes them a year+ to release a miniscule update.
People also fail to remember than Android was a "failure" by most of your standards until Verizon completely took over their marketing campaign with their Droid advertisements filling up every other commercial slot. Now, regardless of carrier or device, an Android phone is dubbed a "Droid" and it's owner will tell you that it "Does." Eventually, Windows Phone WILL reach this level, this is Microsoft we're speaking about here.
I understand you guys are upset that it isn't Windows Phone, but to dub it a failure and to remove credit from Microsoft from scrapping a known enterprise system and diving head first into a consumer oriented "pretty" phone market is also unfair to this company. Call me a fan boy, but I see myself more of a realist, and having a father which develops extremely important software for a living, I understand this takes time.
N8ter said:
That will not make consumers buy the phones. I think a distinction needs to be made...
Just because a company is in it to win it and spends tons of money on advertising, doesn't mean consumers will buy it.
Consumers tend to make comparative decisions. They weigh the benefits of one product towards another one.
The only way they can avoid that, is if the WP7 devices are price so low that they can win sales based on price.
But carriers will probably still subsidize them to the same price as anything else to make more profits off of them. Since most users get their phones form a carrier, well... You finish that statement.
I'm sure Microsoft wanted Microsoft Bob and Windows Me to be a winners as well...
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N8ter,
If your reponse is your expansion then I think you need to say it, because too often it seems what you are responding to something that was not said.
I did not say Microsoft being in it to win it would affect sales positively. Actually none of what I said had anything to do with increased sales. A poster made a statement saying if it is all true about the low sales then his/her phone is doomed. My response was just saying even though ordinarily poor sales will doom products, Windows Phone will not be doomed so easily. I also tried to define what doom meant.
It will take more than 1 year of poor sales to doom Windows Phone.
Fresh comment:
There are people on this board that believe the poor response to Windows Phone is due to its lack of features and it being a beta os.
Question - What due diligence does the average person do before picking up a contract phone?
Here is my thinking - even some nerds on this forum did not fully understand what they were getting into. In theory the fresh looking UI and the device offering should have been enough.
I do not know but the average person would not have known Windows Phone could not do custom ringtones. Or sync natively with Outlook. Or all the other stuff. They would have asked about features like: Wifi, 3G, Video Calling (not there), Facebook, Emails, etc. In theory they would have bought it, a sale would be registered, and they would have returned it. Companies tend to conveniently tell you sales, not sales minus returns.
I do not know the answer, but I suspect the answer is not easy.
I was expecting more. Much more. And Nokia disappointed me. First, I think I'm not astonished because I've seen the hardware before. At June.
The Lumia 710, it's pretty nice and cheap. It's great!
But hey, where is the front camera? Every device nowadays should have one. Even if I dont use it, I want it. Skype is just around the corner (hope so) and it will allow, or should, video calling.
So, Nokia did save WP7? Everyone was expecting this day to foresee the WP7 future. What now?
Saved or Doomed?
I don't think they've done either - it will survive with or without Nokia. What I do think they've done is totally shot themselves in the foot by leaving out FFC. Think I'll be getting the Titan now to replace my HD7, very disappointed with Nokia on this one.
I totally don't care about the front facing camera, so it's hard for me to see it as a make or break feature for the platform.
They weren't supposed to release some super awesome device.
The idea is that Nokia is a massive brand in Europe, has the biggest market share (despite relying on a dying OS, Symbian, and having competition from the iPhone) and brand. People will buy Nokias because they're Nokias. A certain premium comes from Nokias as seen with the unique design on the Lumia 800.
It's the equivalent of Apple going suddenly ditching iOS and deciding to go with Android and then releasing an iPhone 4S with Android.
I am more than disappointed by Nokia.
But this was predictable. They are just focusing mass customers and developping countries with low end devices...
I will stay with HTC or move to Android. That's pretty sad.
Looks like the 710 supports SD card, that's interesting
---------- Post added at 03:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 AM ----------
arturobandini said:
I am more than disappointed by Nokia.
But this was predictable. They are just focusing mass customers and developping countries with low end devices...
I will stay with HTC or move to Android. That's pretty sad.
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Think its important to note that these are just the 2011 devices. The rumors have suggested upwards of 12 Nokia phones in various form factors by the end of 2012.
Doomed....lol
Nokia don't save WP7...Windows 8 will...
Those of us in the USA are maybe disappointed but Nokia is first and foremost an international company that has never been truly huge in the US. The two phones announced today are just what was needed to expand the worldwide market and in my opinion that is why this is a big deal! Lot more people in the world than us USA technophiles! More WP7 phones in more hands is better for all of us!
Also have to say while its smallish I love the clarity of the screen on the 800! The video on Engadget seems to be filmed in natural light and wow, it still looks GREAT! Look forward to next year my friends! Theyve always told us thats when to expect the great things from Nokia!
sylau90 said:
Doomed....lol
Nokia don't save WP7...Windows 8 will...
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I hope so!
Worldwide? I'm not from Nokia, but they took 9 months to take a device that they probably already had (N9), put some buttons and the OS. If XDA hackers would want to, they could put WP7 OS in N9 in 2 months or less. But nobody cares at all. Whatever, the point is.. they took 9 months to create a device that isnt a killer device, and they forgot the "Worldwide" word. Not even US. Rumors that they will arrive here at February. 4 months? Not even Apple is that slow.
And the Lumia 710 is the only device that surprised me, not for it's specs, but the price is nice.
And frontal camera isnt a feature that would turn me away from a device, but that's us. If I can have a bigger (not Titan bigger) screen and a frontal camera for the same price, I would choose the bigger screen, thanks.
But yeah, Lumia 800 is sexy.
pwachleman said:
Those of us in the USA are maybe disappointed but Nokia is first and foremost an international company that has never been truly huge in the US. The two phones announced today are just what was needed to expand the worldwide market and in my opinion that is why this is a big deal! Lot more people in the world than us USA technophiles! More WP7 phones in more hands is better for all of us!
Also have to say while its smallish I love the clarity of the screen on the 800! The video on Engadget seems to be filmed in natural light and wow, it still looks GREAT! Look forward to next year my friends! Theyve always told us thats when to expect the great things from Nokia!
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Looks like Nokia's plan gonna fail...Think their strategy managers need to go back to school...
They gonna focus on China and India,which gonna fail real soon...Although they are huge population there,but it doesn't means you gonna success.
Lets make some simple assumption, especially in China now,what's most important for a developing country?they will definitely promote local company to grow rather than allow foreign companies to dominate their market such as Nokia. Even apple Ipad and Iphone tax so high in China. I can say that they are over hundread phone manufacturer in China who making KIRF phones...And now,here is the most important part,when talking about KIRF phone,nowadays they already started to use android(the green army).Why?cause it is free,no license fee or anything...
Therefore, the protection towards local investment and the "Free" goddess of Android will simply block Nokia out.
Lastly, don't think that people in developing countries won't want a high end-device...
It is a tough game for Nokia now,Anyway,windows phone 7 will be safe until the Windows 8 is released,complete integration,sync and kinect....
Doomed for Nokia...cheers
Everybody in this forum who makes $7/hr bagging groceries always knows that the bigger company sucks at planning, marketing and developing. Just watch & see whether they succeed or fail, none of us have any idea who will buy it.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
$7/hr bagging groceries are a good measurement and good enough to judge their low end phones...Anyway,Thanks for your reminder.
Nokia starts to lose their ground...Take nine months to copy their own design on N9...great stuffs...
People with name starts with steve sucks ball( steve'n elop, steve ballmer), except steve jobs....
It is just silly Elop is praising their Nokia N9 sales are great while he is the one who killed the device.
mikeeam said:
Worldwide? I'm not from Nokia, but they took 9 months to take a device that they probably already had (N9), put some buttons and the OS. If XDA hackers would want to, they could put WP7 OS in N9 in 2 months or less. But nobody cares at all. Whatever, the point is.. they took 9 months to create a device that isnt a killer device, and they forgot the "Worldwide" word. Not even US. Rumors that they will arrive here at February. 4 months? Not even Apple is that slow.
And the Lumia 710 is the only device that surprised me, not for it's specs, but the price is nice.
And frontal camera isnt a feature that would turn me away from a device, but that's us. If I can have a bigger (not Titan bigger) screen and a frontal camera for the same price, I would choose the bigger screen, thanks.
But yeah, Lumia 800 is sexy.
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LOL Sure they could
pwachleman said:
Those of us in the USA are maybe disappointed but Nokia is first and foremost an international company that has never been truly huge in the US. The two phones announced today are just what was needed to expand the worldwide market and in my opinion that is why this is a big deal! Lot more people in the world than us USA technophiles! More WP7 phones in more hands is better for all of us!
Also have to say while its smallish I love the clarity of the screen on the 800! The video on Engadget seems to be filmed in natural light and wow, it still looks GREAT! Look forward to next year my friends! Theyve always told us thats when to expect the great things from Nokia!
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that's because us consumers rejected them and carriers followed as a result, thanks to Symbian.
tHe phones are cute but I can care less what it looks looks like. They go in cases to keep their resale value as high as possible.
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Expecting the flood of hate to commence in 3,..2,...1.... go!
Oh, forgot to mention. The 800 actually lists USB storage mode and TV out as features. So as usual, the haters always focus on the negatives but the oft requested features are ignored. OK, back to the hating!!
efjay said:
Expecting the flood of hate to commence in 3,..2,...1.... go!
Oh, forgot to mention. The 800 actually lists USB storage mode and TV out as features. So as usual, the haters always focus on the negatives but the oft requested features are ignored. OK, back to the hating!!
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It also says FLAC and AVI support. For me it's now down to Nokia 800 and Samsung Focus S
I dont get all the hate i love this phone already and will be getting one on the 16th. I dont get what you are expecting tbh some sort or cyborg tech from the future? We all knew what WP7 supports etc and as for the rest of it i cant think of a better looking well made handset and the screen looks lush
Don't think its devices that will save WP7. It is marketing and retailer influence, which it looks like Nokia is taking very seriously.
Sure, the Lumia 800 looks decent and has pretty cool features, like navigation. However for a flagship device i miss a FFC, not that I need one but a flagship device should have one. With 16GB this device will be a great option to jump on the WP7 train if priced right. However if the Omnia W comes out around the same prcing I'll go for that. Because it has a FFC... But we'll see...
http://www.osnews.com/story/25480/Microsoft_To_Acquire_Nokia_s_Smartphone_Division_
.......
Microsoft To Acquire Nokia's Smartphone Division? posted by Thom Holwerda on Thu 5th Jan 2012 11:25 UTC This rumour is not new, nor is it particularly earth-shattering. However, with Windows Phone 7 failing to make a dent in the market place, and Nokia's Lumia 800 not making huge waves either, the rumour's been taken out of the shed again: Microsoft is supposedly acquiring Nokia's smartphone division later this year. Stephen Elop will resign from Nokia shortly afterwards.
This time around, the rumour's being rekindled by Eldar Murtazin, the Russian editor-in-chief of Mobile-Review.com. He has a pretty good track record regarding Nokia, and has often had very, very early access to device prototypes and other information. However, as always, a firm pile of salt should be readily available at all times when reading this.
"Steve Balmer, Andy Lees and Stephen Elop, Kai Ostamo will meet in Las Vegas to finalize agreement about Nokia smartphone unit," he tweeted. The deal is apparently so that Microsoft also gets a few manufacturing plants, and, of course, an extensive patent portfolio. The Nokia name is set to disappear from the Microsoft smartphones that would follow from this acquisition.
It would leave Nokia with its feature phone business, networking equipment, and an assortment of other activities. While many think this would mean the end of Nokia, I highly doubt it will be - the company is 140 years old, has survived multiple crises and product transitions (they started out as a paper company, after all). Nokia will survive, even without smartphones, but that doesn't make it any less tragic.
This deal certainly wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. It's becoming ever more clear that all those naysayers were right, back when the Microsoft-Nokia deal was announced. Stephen Elop is a mole, with only one goal: to drive Nokia into the ground, so that Microsoft can swoop in and acquire the interesting parts for a relatively low price. The N9 demonstrated that Nokia did have an option besides the failing Windows Phone 7, and that the deal with Microsoft wasn't a necessity at all.
We'll have to see how it all pans out over the course of 2012, but this doesn't seem like a crazy prediction. Sad.
.......
Patent mongering ?
Company absorbtion ?
Apple-like hardware control ?
Discuss
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
It won't surprise me either.
My 2 years old Symbian nokia, can do at least everything my WP7 can do, + even much more things.
the only problema is the screen-res thats 320x240.
Nokia went from actually good OS with no future, to an actually bad OS, with a very doubt future.
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
z33dev33l said:
Eh, last I checked the lumia 800 series was doing great in Europe...
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If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
I started ignoring anything Eldar Murtazin says a long time ago
ohgood said:
If you have a link to official sales numbers, please post. I've read a lot of speculation on both +/- for sales over there, but no official numbers.
Either way, I'm second guessing microsofts intentions, if any.
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Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
The rumor may or may not be true (and it most likely is not), but public denials are not now, nor have they ever been, proof that an acquisition is not imminent. I have worked for numerous companies that have been acquired, and in every case, right up until the day the acquisition was officially announced, the companies that I worked for denied the "rumors". That is just standard business practice to avoid too much market volatility.
efjay said:
Strangely the same request for confirmation doesnt seem to be made when the talk is of low WP7 sales, just accepted as the truth.
Anyway, Nokia has denied it, update at the botttom of this story: http://www.slashgear.com/microsofts-nokia-smartphone-division-acquisition-tipped-imminent-05206304/
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yep the truth is still tied up somewhere... apple loves to flaunt 4 million sales in a weekend, android 500,000+ activations a day... and microsoft, balmer only says that sales were less than expected. not much to go on. :-(
you mentioned the update, her's the text:
Update: Nokia UK has given us the following comment:
“We’ve put these rumours to rest a long time ago. The focus for Nokia is on executing on our partnership around Windows Phone and growing the ecosystem, and each company has the tools they need to do so”
yes, that sounds like the normal corporate-speak for "we don't want insider trading or speculations hurting our stocks" as normal.
still waiting on official numbers, and apparently waiting a little longer for a possible aquisition.
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
hexcorev2 said:
It would be awesome if MS could have their own branded phones like Apple.
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Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
slimshady322 said:
Well that would upset HTC, Samsung etc. and also take all the Nokia-coolness away from the phones.
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posted before I did
the nokia venture is ultimately a bad idea especially if it is relegated to the dumb phone scene
vetvito said:
wouldn't be surprising. Symbian still the most used smartphone OS, I just don't understand why the company didn't improve, and update it. They killed the proven Symbian OS ,for a unproven unpopular OS that they have no control over.
Sent from my Nexus S
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You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
nokia showed an overall growth w/ symbian last year
isn't that extremely positive for a sinking ship
And it is still number one in terms of international handset maker even if samsung is closing in really fast
nicksti said:
You would say that.
Where again where Symbian sales heading for Nokia? They were bleeding marketshare. The writing was on the wall for Symbian. Argue that Nokia should have gone to Android, but not that they should not have stuck with Symbian.
Symbian was not going anywhere positive. The overhead of making your own software has exponential penalties when you are losing sales. The app catalogue was not progressing. Now instead of slowly dying like RIM, Nokia made a gamble. Microsoft could provide them with some perks that the open source world of Android could not.
Now, just like I see a conflict of interest with Google owning Motorola, I see a problem with Microsoft owning Nokia. But maybe they can spin it like Google did -
"We did this to protect the ecosystem. Motorola will operate separately. Don't be worried."
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Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
Saying all Nokia had to do is improve Symbian is kind of like saying all Microsoft needed to do to compete with the iPhone was to improve Windows Mobile
Anyway, it looks like the market and analysts are now expecting good things from Nokia. Hopefully they are right
technically speaking, winphone is a improvement of WM. Unless you're not thinking logically.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
Selective reading? You miss the part where I said "improve". All they had to do was update.
You do know Symbian still outsells Win phone, don't you?
Sent from my Nexus S
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I did not selectively read. Because improving it oh so easy. The OS was flat not not attractive. Symbian Anna and Belle are improvements but its nowhere near Android.
Your product is crap. Just improve it.
Last numbers I saw Symbian was still the #1 OS in certain markets. That because Nokia puts Symbian on near everything. Have you owned any Symbian phones? I have. Remember Nokia's share used to be 40%. Last number I saw was in the 20s. Why? Smartphone explosion.
Symbian was sinking and taking Nokia with them. Fact.
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
vetvito said:
So you ditch it, and still sink? Meego was a great alternative, all I'm saying is don't foolishly put all your eggs in one basket.
Symbian, Meego, and Winphone couldve helped Nokia.
Sent from my Nexus S
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What about the expenses and overheads of the company? What about the business aspect of that decision? Nokia's problem was they had too many OSes.
Symbian S40, S60 5th edition, Symbian UIQ, S^3, Meego, Maemo. And a partridge in a pear tree.
But in a btw, since 'killing off" Symbian, they have released updates and new phones using Symbian. Maybe there is a place for Symbian like there is a place for Bada and Brew.
Vet, you obvious do not like Windows Phone. At all. But Symbian was a dead end. And Meego? Cmon. They are not getting to 50,000 apps in under a year with Meego. The only valid argument I can understand is Nokia should have ditched Symbian for Android.