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reading this from engadget and this is what it says:
No support for microSD cards, though that's partially offset by the requirement for capacious internal storage. Some phones might implement the required internal storage on a microSD card, but it's not supposed to be user-swappable, and if you do switch it out, you'll reset the phone and lose all your data -- but you should be able to get most of it back when you sync with the cloud.
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Is this correct can anyone confirm i think this is relay a disappointing move, i love the minimum 8 gig memory but this really dose put a cap on stuff on your phone, and forcing up to use 3g data plans for cloud syncing, in canada we don`t have any unlimited plans we pay 30$ for 1 gig or data
This is a limitation that puzzles me. Is there some sort of techinical advantage to NOT having a card slot?
This sort of makes me think that WP7 requires external storage to function properly. So having an "optional" card is not an option.
WhyBe said:
This is a limitation that puzzles me. Is there some sort of techinical advantage to NOT having a card slot?
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It may be partly an anti-piracy tactic - make sure that if people pay to download songs from Zune, they can't give them to other people just by taking the memory card out. It's probably also tied to the practice of not allowing any software to be installed unless it's downloaded from the marketplace.
It also allows the phone manufacturers to screw more money out of customers. Look at the price difference between the 32GB iPhone 3GS and the 16GB version. Think the extra memory costs that much to include? Nope. But people who need 32GB have no choice but to pay the premium.
Shasarak said:
It may be partly an anti-piracy tactic - make sure that if people pay to download songs from Zune, they can't give them to other people just by taking the memory card out. It's probably also tied to the practice of not allowing any software to be installed unless it's downloaded from the marketplace.
It also allows the phone manufacturers to screw more money out of customers. Look at the price difference between the 32GB iPhone 3GS and the 16GB version. Think the extra memory costs that much to include? Nope. But people who need 32GB have no choice but to pay the premium.
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Well, stopping piracy is good for everyone. Overcharging me for a few extra GB's is not cool tho.
WhyBe said:
Well, stopping piracy is good for everyone.
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Debatable.
WhyBe said:
Well, stopping piracy is good for everyone.
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not for people that use pirated software lol
Well it's good for them too...they just don't realize it
On the contrary, actually, piracy is good for the industry. Do you think Sony would have sold even 10% of the number of original playstations they actually sold if kids hadn't been constantly swapping burned CD's in the playground?
Shasarak said:
On the contrary, actually, piracy is good for the industry. Do you think Sony would have sold even 10% of the number of original playstations they actually sold if kids hadn't been constantly swapping burned CD's in the playground?
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Sony doesn't make money off of the hardware FYI (or very little). Profits come from software and licensing.
That's really a dumb justification for stealing anyways.
WhyBe said:
Sony doesn't make money off of the hardware FYI (or very little). Profits come from software and licensing.
That's really a dumb justification for stealing anyways.
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Yes, but the point is that once there were a huge number of consoles in use, their owners bought more legitimate software, and more expensive hardware add-ons, so Sony gained financially in the end.
The industry always tries to make out that piracy is immensely damaging, but it does so on the basis of entirely made-up data. They try and get some kind of estimate of how much stuff is downloaded, then work out what that would have sold for if it had all been bought, and then proclaim that they've lost that much money. This is obviously complete bull****, because it assumes that the downloaders would actually have bought the thing in question if it were only available at full price; and most of the time they wouldn't have. People generally download stuff that they still wouldn't have bought even if it were not available for download. Sometimes they even download something illegally as a trial and then buy it legally if they find they like it.
And a lot of the original illegal downloading of mp3's was driven simply by a desire to have a single track in mp3 format; the industry was ridiculously slow to realise the demand for downloads. The people who download illegally the most tend to be the same people who purchase the largest number of legal downloads; but you'll never hear the industry admit that.
WhyBe said:
Sony doesn't make money off of the hardware FYI (or very little). Profits come from software and licensing.
That's really a dumb justification for stealing anyways.
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they do make money off the hardware, maybe not with the ps3 yet but as time goes on it gets cheaper to build so they will & thats a good justification for it some people buy two xbox 360 1 for online & 1 to mod so they can have all the games they want
For some reason many IP owners find it a good idea to create tons of hassles for buying their stuff, and I, as a user, often have this funky choice of downloading something for free to have it available and running in minutes or paying, often even going to physical stores (horrors!), and then probably have some crappy DRM attached to what I just bought in hope that nothing breaks down to make it all useless.
Just a few examples: it's impossible to buy digital music where I live - neither iTunes nor Zune nor anyone else sell music here, so pirating is the only option; MS don't sell Win 7 as upgrades to Vista here, only full retail versions, so you have to pay $500 instead of $200, and then get no download option either; iGo, the satnav app I use, is sold on SD cards and have no download option for WM - hell I'm not using a separate card for just one app! And then the most glorious example - the iPhone, where they locked app installation procedure together with advanced settings, using the same mechanism. So you unlock settings and get access to free stuff in one move. That, together with no try before you buy option in appstore.
So, I don't know if piracy is good or bad for the industry, but I'm sure the industry's stupidities are one of the major causes for piracy. Only in digital you find that stuff you pay for is less convenient and causes more hassle than free stuff. It just can't work without at least some people getting pissed off and looking for workarounds.
so is microsoft setting up a itune store for mp3?
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
if we need a simple phone, we will get nokia!
its like returning to iphone 1, with no mms, no a2dp
I think WinMo 7 should have a professional version target for us!
Tabbe said:
so is microsoft setting up a itune store for mp3?
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
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Yeeeess! Where have u been? They have complete Zune functionality in WP7. There already exists the Zune mp3 site.
WP7 is the FIRST of the "iPhone killers" to compete with Apple on ALL levels and then some. No other smartphone has done so thus far.
WhyBe said:
WP7 is the FIRST of the "iPhone killers" to compete with Apple on ALL levels and then some. No other smartphone has done so thus far.
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To say that WP7 is going to compete with iPhone is like saying Lady Gaga is going to compete against Michael Jackson's music.
People who own iPhone, do so because it's the fashion, much like why they owned iPods. People owned them because it was a fashion statement, not because it's functional. How many people you know own an iPhone and use it as a smart phone? Lots of people I know **** with the thing for 3 months, and then forget it's a smart phone and just use it as a phone.
It's not like Phone7 is going to be a fashion statement like Apple's products are. That's why Zune could never catch a decent share of the mp3 player market.
iPhone will go the way of the Nike shoe. Many people will have them, and will spend lots of money for them. In the end, it's a fad, and will fade away.
Phone7 is just Microsoft's way of trying to capitalize on the software market craze. As iPhone owners buy lots of applications, Microsoft is hoping to benefit the same way with their own marketplace. So of course, DRM is very important.
Shasarak said:
Debatable.
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yep totally have you heard gabe newalls take on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pevh2Q0hg
he see's piracy for what it is and he's a developer and publisher, but also a geek and a gamer
spzero said:
yep totally have you heard gabe newalls take on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87pevh2Q0hg
he see's piracy for what it is and he's a developer and publisher, but also a geek and a gamer
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WOW, he really understands the market, unreal, I have never heard any "expert" talk like that about piracy. Def worth watching (8+min long).
As for the topic on hand, this will almost be a deal breaker for me. SD cards are important for content I own to move it between computers or anything else. It has to be on a current device.
Just why do people think SD card support removal from WP7 has anything to do with piracy, BTW?
Think about it - what would you do with the card there? It doesn't have file system access, no file browser, and no way to use a file you copy to this card for anything. It's not any more difficult to put a pirated mp3 to Zune HD or iPod than a legal one (actually, it's much easier, but anyway).
Dukenukemx said:
It's not like Phone7 is going to be a fashion statement like Apple's products are. That's why Zune could never catch a decent share of the mp3 player market.
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I don't know about that. Actually, WP7 seems so far to be the first smartphone platform apart from the iPhone to deliver experience that could make a device that I can buy for my wife as a Christmas gift. In some ways, which I know are important to her, it will certainly excel (video codec support, Zune desktop software, all the facebook stuff built in etc.). It obviously looks different and will stand out on retail shelves. I think the design will look gorgeous on amoled screens (the videos and screenshots and even low-pixel-density PC screens surely steal some of its appeal). One could argue that the "original thing", the iPhone, may be better, but the problem is, she already has one, as do all of her friends. It's difficult to stand out with the iPhone when you go into a Starbucks or board a plane. So the iPhone does have limitations as a fashion item. I'm sure no single WP7 model will beat the iPhone, so I'm reluctant to use the silly media label, "iPhone killer", but it's relatively understandable how to beat Apple in terms of market share.
Dukenukemx said:
To say that WP7 is going to compete with iPhone is like saying Lady Gaga is going to compete against Michael Jackson's music.
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Isn't she?
People who own iPhone, do so because it's the fashion, much like why they owned iPods. People owned them because it was a fashion statement, not because it's functional. How many people you know own an iPhone and use it as a smart phone? Lots of people I know **** with the thing for 3 months, and then forget it's a smart phone and just use it as a phone.
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Not the many people I know with iPhones. They seem quite enthusiastic about all of their apps.
To say iPhone is a trend is to insinuate that the smartphone industry is eventually going to revert back to the old WM way of doing things. Surely you don't mean this do you?
It's not like Phone7 is going to be a fashion statement like Apple's products are. That's why Zune could never catch a decent share of the mp3 player market.
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Zune doesn't have iTunes tie-ins like iWhatever. I don't expect any mp3 site to beat iTunes anytime soon, so therefore Apple products will always have the advantage in that regard. I believe that currently iTunes is the largest music retailer.
Just because Apple is #1 in this segment doesn't mean #2 can't do well. Hell, for that matter, Apple isn't even the #1 smartphone maker and it isn't hurting them
As far as fashion statements goes, I work in a nightclub and have YET to see any type of phone used as a fashion statement.
Seeing how iphone is popular with thier 99 cents games and apps do you think there should be a windows mobile 99cent store. It would be alot better for developers because people wouldnt mind paying 99 cents for a fun game or apps and it will cut down people looking for warez. I mean 29 dollars for a game or app is too much. And with that price volume would be high what do you think?
There doesn't seem to be any real competition in the Marketplace. I mean, if there were like 30 marble maddness-type games, then you'd find a lot for 99 cents.
microsoft blackball
Well believe me the windows mobile marketplace doesnt allow games and apps made by 3rd party compilers to compete. They want everyone to use thier set of tools to make games and apps. Check out stores like mobi-hand which offer way better games and apps. I feel 99 cent price range will limit the amount of warez thats exploding . I seen some websites that have almost every game made for windows mobile for free. The price change is nessary.
Seeing how iphone is popular with thier 99 cents games and apps do you think there should be a windows mobile 99cent store.
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No. Let them charge whatever they want for their apps. If you don't want them, don't buy them.
common sense
rodbac said:
No. Let them charge whatever they want for their apps. If you don't want them, don't buy them.
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Well developers are complaining that sales are that high. This results in making windows phone7 a lockdown phone. I feel if they charge less customers would purchase more and not look for free alternatives. There should be a separate 99 cent store for windows mobile
Well developers are complaining that sales are that high.
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Did you mean "devs are complaining that sales aren't that high"?
If not, I don't understand your point.
If so, there's nothing stopping them from charging only a buck for their applications.
The success of the iPhone app store isn't its pricepoint, but the fact that it caters to a phone a lot of people own (I wouldn't buy one myself) and they have no other choice- it's a locked platform.
In other words, yeah, I guess a 99c store would be great, but it wouldn't really change anything. Devs should still be able to charge more (you get better apps that way- do you think you'd be able to buy SPB Mobile Shell if they had no other choice but to sell it for a buck?), and you can still buy/obtain software from any place you like.
warez
The reason I brought this up is as long as games and apps are high priced people will search very hard for warez. If the price point is low many people will just buy the product without worrying about looking for warez. Look anyone can jailbrake iphone but still most people buy the app because its so cheap.
I agree with you, zarpy. The point is devs are free to drop their price to 99c now. They shouldn't need some dedicated store to force them to acknowledge one of the most basic tenets of the free market.
I dont know if most of the 99 cent apps or games would be that great. I would imagine the quality of the app or the content itself would be lacking or out dated. I would be willing to pay a reasonable price for an application that would be value added and provide some functionality that would enhance the overall experience of my phone, but I would never buy a game. I don't find myself in enough situations to be able to whip out my phone and play for extended periods of time.
why charge 99 cents? there are lots of freeware games and apps out there if you take the time to look for them
they dont make it to marketplace because of the restrictions on apps that can be sold through there
store
defaultdotxbe said:
why charge 99 cents? there are lots of freeware games and apps out there if you take the time to look for them
they dont make it to marketplace because of the restrictions on apps that can be sold through there
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Your right about that they place restrictions that make no sense. I found better online stores with way better and more useful games and apps. There news to be another big online store for windows mobile. Maybe in the future.
zarpy said:
Your right about that they place restrictions that make no sense. I found better online stores with way better and more useful games and apps. There news to be another big online store for windows mobile. Maybe in the future.
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doubtful, once WP7 is out the marketplace will be the only source for apps, so MS can put whatever restrictions on it they want
restrictions
Yes I agree once Microsoft totally controls the Marketplace. most phones will be hacked just to download freeware and buy from other narkets.
control
So do you want microsoft to have more control or do you like the way it is now.
I'm looking for friends/opponents/beginners/professionals to fill up my leaderbord
I don't have a Xbox, and because I don't now anybody else that has a windows phone I can't compare my scores on the leaderbord. (I would love to see a general leaderbord for Xbox live)
Everyone with the same issue as me please post your gamertag name. I will start first with mine:
th0mas kara
Sucks without an actual Xbox 360. Post this on the Microsoft site, I'll vote for it.
Gamertag: Memphis Vito
I dont have an XBox yet either and my friends have laughed with tears at my paltry wp7 score. LOL
Good to have friends around my level xD
Gamertag: bySeon
Nice thread! I don't have my phone yet, the DVP should arrive at my doorstep in a few days. Feel free to add me anyways..
XBLGT: GeneralSham
Don't have a WP7 yet, waitin for my upgrade next month.
gamertag: keenancook
I've had my Mozart for a couple of weeks now, but have only just sorted out data and whatnot
Gamertag: genkaimade
SlactionJackson
Great idea, I dont have an Xbox either.
Gamertag: NostalgiaFX
Well you dont exactly need an Xbox to increase your gamerscore. Even games such as Fallout 3, GTA4 etc which support GFWL on Windows use the gamerscore.
But the addition of WP7 to Xbox live is really great, I can now increase my gamerscore on the go while in the train or a bus or even inflight.
gamertag: onizuka721
Mag1c is Nasty
Anthonok
Sent from my SGH-i917 using Board Express
Good idea. I moved out to the country and no longer have broadband access at home..and my XBOX won't recognize the ad hoc network that I create on my Vibrant. So, I abandoned my old gamer tag and created a new one for my WP7.
Im not sure how the whole process of adding friends works over the phone, though. I went into my profile on XBOX Live on my phone, did a search for my brothers gamer tag, found it, and pressed the plus sign at the bottom to add him. But, nothing happened after that, and he says he didn't receive any kind of notification on his XBOX. Am I missing something? Btw, my gamer tag is Joe Ra78
JoePR31 said:
Good idea. I moved out to the country and no longer have broadband access at home..and my XBOX won't recognize the ad hoc network that I create on my Vibrant. So, I abandoned my old gamer tag and created a new one for my WP7.
Im not sure how the whole process of adding friends works over the phone, though. I went into my profile on XBOX Live on my phone, did a search for my brothers gamer tag, found it, and pressed the plus sign at the bottom to add him. But, nothing happened after that, and he says he didn't receive any kind of notification on his XBOX. Am I missing something? Btw, my gamer tag is Joe Ra78
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I had the same problem, but the next day I had 2 friends. You did it probably right because I did it the same way. I think there is a delay in it.
(still need to find a way to get access to paid apps in the Netherlands, any tips would be nice).
yeah thats the correct way... and if u go to xbox.com you can see your pending friend requests also.
Cool, thanks guys. It did work. About an hour ago, my XBOX Live tile showed that I had some sort of notification, and sure enough, I had 3 pending friend requests
Gamertag
I am sandrobber
Hi im new to Xbox Live have LG 7 phone mi gamer tag is: Dragoxt time to fill up the phone with friends yeahh.
sandrobber said:
I am sandrobber
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Hey sandrobber, sorry can't reply to you on xboxlive, I'm not a gold member. I got The Harvest for $9 (I think thats aussie dollar, cant remember lol)
TropicalRajput
Wow that is lame that you have to have a gold account to do that
Microsoft seem to be putting their software onto apples phone, http://wmpoweruser.com/how-to-alienate-your-customers-101/
whats next microsoft office on iOS if this continues then there will be on reason to get a wp7 device, after all, the iphone has a better gpu, far more memory (i live in the uk so 16gb is the max 8gb is the norm) so why would i want to buy a wp7 device again if MS starts doing this???
Because they're a software company?
davidebanks said:
Microsoft seem to be putting their software onto apples phone, http://wmpoweruser.com/how-to-alienate-your-customers-101/
whats next microsoft office on iOS if this continues then there will be on reason to get a wp7 device, after all, the iphone has a better gpu, far more memory (i live in the uk so 16gb is the max 8gb is the norm) so why would i want to buy a wp7 device again if MS starts doing this???
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why is office on mac os?
why should they not?
WP7 has a different user experience and i like it much more than the android/ios experience....wp7 wouldn`t a good plattform if only the apps are the pros for it.
And why not give iOS users possibility to like office and maybe consider wp7 for their next phone then?
Well, might never happen, cause most applers stay applers...
Sent from my HTC 7 Mozart using Board Express
Geez. Why should you buy a WP7 rather than iPhone? Because the user experience between the two devices are completely different.
Obviously apps are going to be cross platform, Microsoft is after all a software company. Now, one could argue that they should perhaps do what Google does - and wait with releasing their apps on other platforms until they absolutely have to, but this is the iPhone we are talking about - they have to.
Good Point bro!!!
And because in the futur all softwares will be able to run all platform.
0711 said:
why is office on mac os?
why should they not?
WP7 has a different user experience and i like it much more than the android/ios experience....wp7 wouldn`t a good plattform if only the apps are the pros for it.
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Why is there iTunes Windows? It is slow by the way.
I am sure that companies do this so that user can have options and maybe pick the companies OS next time.
Peew971 said:
Because they're a software company?
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Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
Keep in mind that the software developed for the iPhone was a separate team from those working on Wp7.
Also, if iphone users start to use a bunch of microsoft apps, maybe they will think "maybe I should be using a microsoft phone" and then buy a windows phone. Sure it could go the other way as well... but I'm an optimist.
To make money, as what pretty much most if not all paid apps are for.
digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
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Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
canadariot2312 said:
Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
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is all about the market share, and profit.
canadariot2312 said:
Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
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But porting apps over to iOS is not? How come they can't figure out that app exclusivity also drives phone sales.
digger1985 said:
But porting apps over to iOS is not? How come they can't figure out that app exclusivity also drives phone sales.
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Because console games are complicated and require certain components to work. Every smartphone uses the same SoC set no matter what OS they run whether it would be snapdragon, omap, a4, etc. The consoles are made differently, the 360 with tri-cores and the ps3 uses something really confusing. Than again, Final Fantasy did appear on the Xbox, but Sony didn't exclusive rights to that game.
I would imagine that it is miles easier for porting apps, or maybe they want to do something like having an app on a certain phone will just run better as oppose to something not native.
kabumm said:
And why not give iOS users possibility to like office and maybe consider wp7 for their next phone then?
Well, might never happen, cause most applers stay applers...
Sent from my HTC 7 Mozart using Board Express
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I didn't . Don't get me wrong, I loved my iPhone (until Apple butchered it with iOS 4), but when I went to go snag an iPhone 4 and got to play with it side by side with the Samsung Focus, the choice was clear--Focus is a MUCH nicer device, with a nicer screen and of course, Windows Phone 7 itself--which makes iOS look antiquated and stale.
That said, I also have a 2010 Macbook Pro 13" which I got purely so I can submit apps to the iOS store, but I can't stand Mac OSX, it's a ****in' turd. So I'm glad the laptop runs Windows 7 nicely enough, LOL.
digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
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MS also makes the hardware for the XBOX. And they sold the hardware at a loss. Their revenue model was dependent on software attach rates being high on the console. People often choose game consoles based on exclusive games. MS could spend millions marketing Halo because they know that the reason people buy XBOX consoles is so that they could play awesome games. Period. Everything else the XBOX does is just gravy.
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
Reflexx1 said:
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
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If you are using a smartphone for a single app, than you need to rethink.
I heard that you can get Bing on Android devices as well, although not many people actually want it (seeing that it is a Google phone). I think putting Microsoft software on other OS' is not a bad idea. After all, you see Microsoft everywhere.
Reflexx1 said:
MS also makes the hardware for the XBOX. And they sold the hardware at a loss. Their revenue model was dependent on software attach rates being high on the console. People often choose game consoles based on exclusive games. MS could spend millions marketing Halo because they know that the reason people buy XBOX consoles is so that they could play awesome games. Period. Everything else the XBOX does is just gravy.
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
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You comment doesn't make any sense. They sell hardware at a loss and make money from games. Keeping Xbox exclusives would make sense if they made money from the hardware. Since they make money from the games, they should be doing everything to port games to other platforms as well.
Thing is, Microsoft is the top player in the console industry - so they don't have to port games to other platforms. The increase in revenue would likely be offset by the increase in development cost to support the PS3 and/or Wii. Not to mention the fact that Microsoft Game Studio titles do drive console sales (I know plenty of people who have bought an Xbox 360 purely because of Halo for example); higher console sales lead to higher revenue (even if they did initially sell hardware at a loss) as people pay for the XBL Gold service, spend money in the Xbox marketplace and purchase Xbox 360 games (for which MS get's a license fee no matter if it's an in-house title or not).
This is pretty much how the printer/ink/toner industry or coffee-pod industry works also. They sell the hardware at little to no profit but you are tied in to buying their ink/toner or coffee-pods for the lifetime of the product. It's actually cheaper for me to purchase a new CLP every so often than it is to buy new toner - when I then sell the old printer online I more or less come out at zero cost.
In the smartphone sector, Apple is the king of the hill and it only makes sense to have their software available. Apps do not drive phone sales; UX (User eXperience) does. Keeping a title exclusive to WP7 makes no sense at all. At the same time, it does not make sense (business wise) to support all possible smartphone platforms out there, only iOS and Android has a valuable marketplace (app wise) so those are the platforms to support - this is why Google hasn't released their apps as official WP7 clients thus far; Windows Phone 7 doesn't have a big enough marketshare that it pays for them to spend development dollars on it. Once the OS gains momentum (if it does) Google will rather quickly release what they have to offer.
All said, I do agree it's painful when "better" software appears for the iPhone rather than their own OS, WP7, but this goes back to the fact Microsoft are so large. There is no single person making decisions, they have COO's and project managers en masse, often trying to out-do eachother or vote other projects down as they step on their own projects toes. Microsoft is filled to the brim with highly competent people, but they operate like a bureaucracy. Ask anyone who's ever worked there and they'll all more or less tell the same story - the layers of hierarchy is killing creative output.
How many times has Microsoft not come out with killer products which has failed miserably in the marketplace because upper management hasn't seen or understood the possibility. Take Media Center for example, it has given the best UX for DVRs for years - still, they never took it to the next level and now it's almost too late. With a lot of luck their embedded Media Center's showcased (in a back-room no less?!) at CES may make a dent in the market, but it's highly unlikely as they missed the boat. GoogleTV, AppleTV, Boxee and a whole lot of other players are now ruling the roost.
That's exactly what they did with the mobile sector also - they had great ideas and were the top players years ago. But they became complacent and stopped innovating. Then other players came along and completely killed them; what was WM's marketshare last year? How much of that was made up of HD2 sales which were re-flashed with Android?
digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
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This is off topic but why would you want to port Halo to the PS3? Halo is more aimed at muliplayer and as everyone knows Playstation sucks at on-line gaming.
you wonder why so many people go and use android and iphone...
microsoft doesnt have any proper marketing strategies i mean the games are overpriced, the apps are still at a low number and there is no real freedom in this os.
dont get me wrong im a user of wp7 and i was excited by the phone but the more they release things the more disappointed i am. you arent paying for games like angry birds and plants vs zombies your basically paying ridiculous prices to use their xbl feature.
i think that if they want to break into the market they should really consider making these games free i know its unfair to the developers but think about how much more people would be interested to hear that they can get free proper games or apps.
but if you want to go and tell these developers to develop games for your os then i think they should make it free like what google did with angry birds although they paid them a butt load of money. microsoft is trying to compete with people that have been in the market for longer making these things free would surely attract more people.
well thats what i think, share your thoughts
There are lots of free apps in the marketplace already. What's your point?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Making Angry Birds free is not going to sell handsets. Having a feature complete phone (Mango) and sales reps that are actually willing to sell Windows Phones will be what will move handsets.
Once you start working for free, let us know then we'll take your point up with Microsoft and the developers who will obviously be ecstatic to forgo any charges for their work.
my point isnt saying there isnt any free apps.. its saying maybe instead of jacking up prices so high they should focus on reasonable prices, its because its xbl integrated that they charging so high
as i said their marketing sucks.. im simply saying that if they think about what users want and how they should take android and iphone as examples.
once i start working for free?
what you on about? if they willing to spend 8bil on skype and not even integrate it on wp7 why cant they spend few hundred k on developers to bring in more apps and games...
they're learning... they can't copy apple snobbishness or androids openness... they need something new fresh, different. give them time, they'll find a niche eventually.
As I said...Microsoft marketing sucks
compared this two sites
Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/whats-next.aspx
Apple
http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/
Both coming this fall....IMO,microsoft is not working aggressive as apple does...in apple ios5 site,it has almost everything...gallery,video,features,notify me function....Microsoft one is just looks like they are not ready....
Sumunk said:
you wonder why so many people go and use android and iphone...
microsoft doesnt have any proper marketing strategies i mean the games are overpriced, the apps are still at a low number and there is no real freedom in this os.
dont get me wrong im a user of wp7 and i was excited by the phone but the more they release things the more disappointed i am. you arent paying for games like angry birds and plants vs zombies your basically paying ridiculous prices to use their xbl feature.
i think that if they want to break into the market they should really consider making these games free i know its unfair to the developers but think about how much more people would be interested to hear that they can get free proper games or apps.
but if you want to go and tell these developers to develop games for your os then i think they should make it free like what google did with angry birds although they paid them a butt load of money. microsoft is trying to compete with people that have been in the market for longer making these things free would surely attract more people.
well thats what i think, share your thoughts
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if they make games for free , they either pay the developers or screw them.
if they screw the developers no one is going to make more applications for wp7....
and really... the phones costs like 500 dollars, paying 50 dollars more for your apps is not unreasonable.....
and of course that microsoft marketing sucks compared to apple, apple is the most successful marketing company in the world. ofcourse this does not make it impossible for Microsoft to improve
I'd rather they charge $2.99 so that we have more high quality games and apps on our phones. It's not that much money...less than a burger king meal.
...you have 2 different kind of points:
a) Apps prices: This is not Microsoft's responsability. The prices are fixed by the developers of the apps. Marketplace is just the site who makes it possilbe for you to purchase them.
b) Microsoft marketing: Yes, in this respect, they are still far behind Apple. But you have to consider that Microsoft has not the same market approach like Apple.
- Apple has their own sales outlets
- Apple has a big influence regarding marketing and advertising budgets with their retail partners. Apple dictates what they have to do and what they have to spend.
- Same applies to the selected providers who sell Apple products.
Microsoft is in partnership with the device makers and the providers and depending on them. Now who is responsible for the marketing? Mircrosoft? The Makers? The Providers? Microsoft startet with a budget of 500 Mio $. But this is peanuts for a global campaign to introduce something totally new and from what I can see at least here in Europe, the Makers and the Providers are still very reluctant to invest their money in promoting WP7
Well, technically Microsoft does set the prices of XBL games, since they all are published under the "Microsoft Games Studios" banner.
As far as "free" games "screwing" developers or resulting in lower quality, remember that the most sought-after game that has just been released on WP7 is a port of a game that is already available on the other platforms at a lower price, with more levels. Oh, and according to most recent data, Rovio is earning about a million dollars a month from the ads in the free Android version. That doesn't exactly sound like they are getting "screwed" to me.
I was in long Island, NY last week listening to a rock station as I was traveling through. I heard 3 Windows Phone 7 commercals on the radio. It was on aAir plane and they discusses something about powering off phones incuding you with the new Windows Phone (and a few others got in a WOW type thing about the phone)
Same commercal 3 times, it was for the Verizon HTC Trophy (didn't think Verizon cared about it that much)
This would be the first time I heard a Radio ad, I've seen tons on TV tho...
As for the App costs, I will agree, anything over $2.99 for a mobile app or game is WAY too much. MAYBE in a rare case for a High end game (big brand name with the game to back it up) $3.99-$4.99 is acceptable, in a RARE CASE. $6.99 for Sonic is crazy, not for a game (tried the demo) that should just be a flashback game($1.99) as it plays just like the 16bit sega system did.
FTC said:
...you have 2 different kind of points:
a) Apps prices: This is not Microsoft's responsability. The prices are fixed by the developers of the apps. Marketplace is just the site who makes it possilbe for you to purchase them.
...<snip>
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Actually I think they did. When Microsoft released the first few games (before lots of developer "good games" came in), some were at $4.99 (think ilomilo and few other of the release games) , so developers said, Microsoft can do it, why can't we ?
If they started out with new games at $1.99 or $2.99 I bet it would of set a standard because no one wanted to be that crazy over priced person that does not sell any programs. Now you see $4.99-6.99 the norm for mid line games and I still think that's nuts for a phone game (if it was xbox live on my 360 in 720p/1080p with 5.1 audio, it's different and worth that or more)
So it's okay that you spend a thousand dollars every year to use your smartphone, but omg they better not charge more than $2.99 for an app!
AT&T 450 minutes + unlimited text + 2GB data = $85 + fees and taxes (about $5) = $90 a month
$90 x 12 months = $1080 a year
And that's for the cheapest talk plan they have.
honestly some of you guys have good points and some of you dont have good points..
its not about spending how much on a contract.. thats kinda what you bought the phone for, its not about spending alot on games either its about what microsoft is trying to do, being different sometimes isnt a good thing as it leads to un-satisfied customers and thus leading to people changing back to android or iphone.
i believe they can still come out right after they listen to their customers.
reasonable prices for reasonable games.
and if you wanna say angry birds is worth it, guess again its missing the new chapters.. its only got 1 - 4.. wheres the rest.. is this the best that they could do for MS? wheres seasons and rio?
Marketing:
Yes the WP7 marketing hasn't been the best. The onslaught hasn't fully started yet though - I believe they are waiting first for year close and stronger marketing from their favorite partner... Nokia.
I expect Mango marketing will be better but they haven't quite hit stride - this is less then a year out with limited hardware... just give it some time.
App prices... yes they are high - simple fact is NUMBERS. App Devs will charge what they can get away with. WP7 want the apps and they are willing to pay the prices for them. As the device count spreads the pricing may begin to drop to attract other users who have not downloaded because of cost.
We are here at the beginning so of course we'll get hit the hardest
Microsoft marketing is horrendous. I've had 5 WinMo devices, too long complacent with the incremental changes. They had a market to themselves but had let others run away with it. The large oceanliner that is Microsoft takes so long to change heading. I was looking forward to WP7, and when it first came out at Verizon, I went to check it out. I've been to 4 VZ stores and none of them have the phone activated. NONE! I can't check out IE to browse anything. How is that supposed to sell anyone? I tried to contact Microsoft about the fact that their demo phones aren't even activated, but instead I got some rep from another country. I told him to escalate it to his manager, provided my info, but no one has gotten back to me. I went back to another VZ store and still... the demo WP7 had no service.
I'm quite upset about it, but I'm not above switching away from WinMo until Microsoft gets a clue with what to do with all the money they make.
I'm going to give calling Microsoft a final shot and see if I can get some fat exec to listen to me.
Sumunk said:
honestly some of you guys have good points and some of you dont have good points..
its not about spending how much on a contract.. thats kinda what you bought the phone for, its not about spending alot on games either its about what microsoft is trying to do, being different sometimes isnt a good thing as it leads to un-satisfied customers and thus leading to people changing back to android or iphone.
i believe they can still come out right after they listen to their customers.
reasonable prices for reasonable games.
and if you wanna say angry birds is worth it, guess again its missing the new chapters.. its only got 1 - 4.. wheres the rest.. is this the best that they could do for MS? wheres seasons and rio?
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I'm going to quote a conversation here:
I confess Instapaper is pretty interesting to me, it's just not worth $4.99 to me. I would probably buy it for $0.99. I realize that's really cheap, but Apple has really trained me that stuff should be free (or $0.99 at most).
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This attitude blows my mind.. but you aren't alone.
Any app on App Store that isn't 99 cents is littered with reviews demanding that it should be 99 cents.. even if it's only 1.99.
Really.. mind blown. It's seriously de-valuing the concept of a software application.. and making it really hard for me to believe the hype in the mobile industry.
I saw some articles even about Angry Birds profitability.. they mentioned some company investing almost $50 million in Roxio.. but they also mentioned the game hasn't even made $10 million in sales.. although it does allegedly generate $1 million a month in revenue from ads on Android... they said the most profitable part of Roxio is their toy and other item sales.
The numbers don't add up for me.. I get that the budget is small.. but it's still an industry limited by the price consumers are demanding.
ALL of App Store did $1.7 billion in 2010? And that's 350,000 apps?
That's less than $5,000 per app...
By the time Call of Duty Black Ops is a year old.. it will probably have done the same revenue that all of App Store did in 2010... it's already most likely fairly close.
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Also, this is interesting:
i.imgur.com/8bbmJ.jpg
DavidinCT said:
If they started out with new games at $1.99 or $2.99 I bet it would of set a standard because no one wanted to be that crazy over priced person that does not sell any programs. Now you see $4.99-6.99 the norm for mid line games and I still think that's nuts for a phone game (if it was xbox live on my 360 in 720p/1080p with 5.1 audio, it's different and worth that or more)
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The average price is actually $2.99 for most games (AUD3.99 here in Australia), but I'm not sure if I understand your logic. How does the platform you play the game on change it's worth?
This platfrom has a lot of potential, but MS needs to listen to its users.
App prices are not the reason it will fail. I'm sorry but as a developer my time is worth more than $0.99 Those that think otherwise have no programming experience. Sure can I make millions off of one good app that is 99 cents or free, YES, but the odds of that happening are slim with how many apps come out.
Their marketing is what will kill this platform. well that along with not listening to the needs of the users. The notification system is now going to be behind the other 2 major players and that is not good for heavy users.
They need to fix their endpoint sales. Very few sales reps are excited about the platform.
I have one friend that bought a wp7, focus I think, and he hates it. I keep saying wait for the update, but the update is missing features he wants. The sad thing is they are features that are easily to implement. missing feattures is a whole differnt thread, but he just wants the ability to group his apps kinda like the contacts can be grouped now. The letter search is not a good approach because that requires me to search by name instead of function.
I have SGS and Optimus 7.
Almost every app, that i use in android i can use in wp too.
Only problem, for now, i can't buy apps yet, but that will be fixed when marketplace opens in Finland.
Soon nothing won't keep me on android.
There is so much trash apps on android market, so it is hard to find really important apps.