Develop Bugs

Microsoft seems to be discouraging free apps

I was amazed to read the policies of the next gen windows phone marketplace.
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...spx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Especially the line:
"No limit to the number of paid apps submitted 5 free apps per registration, $19.99 each after that" .
And seeing that the only way to officially install apps on your wp7 phone is thru the marketplace, it will actually cost developpers money to provide them for free.
I assume microsoft really wants that 30% they get on paid apps. All i can say that this will discourage developers to create free apps and will encourage hackers to "jail break" wp7.

five apps per reg ... cmon only companies like resco or spb have more apps than that running at the same time ....
whats worse is this one :
Code:
Annual registration fee of $99
ull need to hand the suckers $100 for posting ONE free app

I suppose that'll keep only the serious developers in; hence improving overall apps quality. But seriously, the $99 annual fee is uncalled for.
An inclusion of an incentive of a waiver of this fee for achieving a sales target would be more effective for smaller players, and probably benefit Microsoft at the same time.

Probably to keep a lid on the number of free, junk apps. Makes the stores pretty hard to browse.

I wonder if an application with a 100% unlimited full trial mode counts as a "free" or a "paid" app. That would just be a good way to post donation-based apps...

I don't think that the 5 free app limit includes ad-supported apps.

vangrieg said:
I wonder if an application with a 100% unlimited full trial mode counts as a "free" or a "paid" app. That would just be a good way to post donation-based apps...
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All apps will have a trail mode already built in and won't be considered a free app.

you can see the Android App Market. All free apps.

Kloc said:
All apps will have a trail mode already built in and won't be considered a free app.
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Trial mode is optional. But anyway, here you go - if you have a hundred apps you want to distribute for free all you need to do is set up an optional price.

I'd imagine there'll be a (time?) limit to the trails.

It depends on the developer, MS don't dictate how and when the trial should expire or how it would limit functionality. So the point is - you can make an application that is fully functional in trial mode and doesn't have a time limit, yet has a price, which becomes optional. Kind of like a donation.

Good job vangrieg . Of course just to make sure they don't kill your app I would add something stupid that only the paid app gets. And/or you could just say that you'll give premium support to paid users.
Also, the beta program will almost certainly morph into an enterprise delivery program. The beta is timebombed but they haven't said how long that will be or how many users you can give the beta to.

greed
All this says is greed having all the apps only from one marketplace. The quality wont be better because your forced into buying from one store. Windows Phone7 will be hacked the moment it comes out.

zarpy said:
All this says is greed having all the apps only from one marketplace. The quality wont be better because your forced into buying from one store. Windows Phone7 will be hacked the moment it comes out.
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They $99 a year maybe greed but the centralized app store is not. The average user doesn't want to have to look on the internet at multiple sites to find an app and hell most of them probably don't know you can do that. By having a centralized store you make it easier for the consumer to find what they need and by doing that you make it easier for the developers applications to be found as well. It's a win win without the application fee but for people like me with dreamspark I won't have to worrie about that

The $99 also keeps people from submitting crap apps and clogging up the works. I think it's as much about that as it is about the money. MS will be making most of it's money off their 30% cut and that's why they're only allowing 5 free apps.

enadiz said:
I suppose that'll keep only the serious developers in; hence improving overall apps quality. But seriously, the $99 annual fee is uncalled for.
An inclusion of an incentive of a waiver of this fee for achieving a sales target would be more effective for smaller players, and probably benefit Microsoft at the same time.
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Click to collapse
Just because the app costs money doesn't mean it will be anything but a quick and easy attempt to take your money. Many of the best apps are free because the developers actually care about what the community wants.
Many websites are free and provide mobile apps for better access. I don't think they will bother if they have to pay.

best games are free
The best games made are free like xtracts and IBCM. Alot of paid games are crappy only a few good ones like assasins creed 3D,prince of persia,marbelz blast,and tetris.

The inability to develop free apps is what will drive me away from Windows Mobile over to Android. And it'll be a move I won't be happy to make.

This isn't really about free or paid, it's about how MS are making money.
The whole Marketplace system is so Microsoft can make money, and with paid applications they take 30%, so make a profit. With free applications, they still have to certify them, process them, and host them, but they make no money on that, so they have to cover costs.
Microsoft have said that advertising etc is fine within free apps, so you can still make money out of free applications should you desire it.

Yes, and also you can still submit five free applications, which is more than an average developer has.

Android Market

Any one think the android market lay out and set up is **** every time I go on to it its always the same old ****e Top Free Top Paid its all ****e the apps never change, I think they should have a shake up so you can do a search on top rated, higest price, lowest price, most comments, newest apps,oldest apps,multi-player etc just change the way you can search altogether.
Does any one else agree or is it just me?
Give us a vote and comment

+1 for it being crap I installed Appbrain which is better but far from what you describe

Yes its crap. With all the money Google have got, you'd think it would be better.

keep the comments and votes comin in

I agree, I expect much better market.

Yes, it's not that advanced.

Totally agree with you guys.
Most of the stuff on there is crap and there are lots of apps that do the same bloody thing.

aye its not brilliant but its far better than the microsoft market or whatever it was called on my htc touch hd

bradmax57 said:
aye its not brilliant but its far better than the microsoft market or whatever it was called on my htc touch hd
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I agree but MS didn't have anywhere near as many apps that were any good.
The only things that were good on MS's market place were facebook/twitter/SPB shell.
the rest of it was garbage.
although I guess this will eventually change with WP7 and get better when they buy some people to develop apps for it...

+1
I'm all for an open market. But there REALLY needs to be a way to Filter/Dispose of the minefield of Porn Apps and XXX Photo Galleries finding their way on.
I'm all for freedom of choice, but don't need it on every other app
KYI

An overhaul would be nice for sure, it seems weird with such focus on Apps in order to ensure success of the Android platform that there seems to be little focus on the market.
The interface needs a change, some customization options, an most importantly they really need to hurry with the paid market for all countries! We in Denmark and probably a bunch of other countries are still waiting for paid apps.
I know there is brilliant alternatives to the market place, but seeing how many Android activations we see daily, they really need to focus some energy on the market, but I suspect it will have a major overhaul with the come of Gingerbread.
I don't believe Android cannot compete to its full extent with Apple until its marketplace delivers the same quality while differentiating its product by supporting the openness of the market.

Bump
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

I think that they need to charge everyone in their local currency as otherwise people get charged oversees fees by the banks for converting it.

Lukehluke said:
I think that they need to charge everyone in their local currency as otherwise people get charged oversees fees by the banks for converting it.
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Yeah thats another thing currency if you are in the uk you should be charged in pounds and it should show pounds instead of dodgey Y letters and dollars and all other currency that isn't normal and people dont understand

[Q] is just me. or marketplace for wp7 is just full of junk?

Is there really a filter in there? The 90% of the apps in market are really a bunch of junk, yesterday I saw a 400 bucks app that someone did for fun... (not much fun if someone double click the buy button).
I mean is microsoft really fitering the apps for wp7 or they just want to increase the ammount of apps asap?
When are the good apps (like in windows mobile 6) coming?
When we will able to have some serious apps for buy? I speak about GPS navs, configuration tools for connections, tethering apps, voip and all the great stuff that we had on windows mobile etc...

No, you are not dreaming.
They are adding 5 new 'Calculate the Tips' software every week.
Really nice, isn't it?

No it's not just you ... there is alot of rubbish out there but to be fair ... I wouldn't say 90%. There are a few decent bit.
I was expecting this and imagine it will only get better as MS have given this OS some motherly love as opposed to WM

Infuriated-Germ said:
it will only get better as MS have given this OS some motherly love as opposed to WM
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Nice. So we can expect some good 'Fart' applications in the near future ?

no offense, but how many apps in the apple market or android market are actually any good??? Not very many.
1. HTC has a connections config app, if you didn't buy an htc phone then shame on you.
2. There is a voip app in the marketplace, someone else was talking about it.
3. You do know the OS is less than a month old right???

OK, I have used the Palm market place, the Itunes app store, the android market and the windows market and I have found that in all cases 90% of the apps are rubbish or variations on a theme (tip calculators for the numerically challenged etc.). I am waiting for only 1 app which has been promised - Kindle!!!

That's what makes Apple's app store so laughable. They occasionally announce that there's a bazillion or so apps in their store but 98% of them are rubbish. I suspect the WP7 market will most likely mirror that and it probably should. The alternative is to become Apple and turn things down because "there's too many of those" or "there's no good reason for this" or the worst, no reason at all. Where Apple's store really fails is their rating system. If Microsoft can identify and correct that weakness they'll definitely have an upper hand.

Its the same in every market. No matter where you go there will be junk.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Johny1969 said:
Is there really a filter in there? The 90% of the apps in market are really a bunch of junk, yesterday I saw a 400 bucks app that someone did for fun... (not much fun if someone double click the buy button).
I mean is microsoft really fitering the apps for wp7 or they just want to increase the ammount of apps asap?
When are the good apps (like in windows mobile 6) coming?
When we will able to have some serious apps for buy? I speak about GPS navs, configuration tools for connections, tethering apps, voip and all the great stuff that we had on windows mobile etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you expect to see configuration tweaking apps for the OS that has been locked down like a Ft. Knox?
BTW, happy anniversary.

arturobandini said:
No, you are not dreaming.
They are adding 5 new 'Calculate the Tips' software every week.
Really nice, isn't it?
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Click to collapse
Exactly what is the deal with that? That is crazy. Cant even get a decent checkbook app

arturobandini said:
No, you are not dreaming.
They are adding 5 new 'Calculate the Tips' software every week.
Really nice, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Another example are currency converters. The funny thing is that I still have to find one that works correctly with German localization...

I just need a good IM app and the Kindle app and im set. Hopefully the IM app supports multiple logins on all platforms.

Isn't it the developers spewing out these applications that are to blame? If someone is so foolish as to pay a $99 fee only to produce a fart application at the end of it, why is it MS's fault? If they rejected the devs work then people would moan that MS is censoring people, big brother, etc. Just let market forces play their part, crap will sink and quality applications will rise by word of mouth and reviews by users.

efjay said:
Isn't it the developers spewing out these applications that are to blame? If someone is so foolish as to pay a $99 fee only to produce a fart application at the end of it, why is it MS's fault? If they rejected the devs work then people would moan that MS is censoring people, big brother, etc. Just let market forces play their part, crap will sink and quality applications will rise by word of mouth and reviews by users.
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They produce the fart app for you in order to get back that 99 dollars as soon as possible.
Do you think real developers do not want to create good apps? They just need to be interested in what the users want and what they can accomplished with the SDK provided by the manufacturer to satisfy the users' wants.
I suggest for you guys to create a thread, and possibly stick it, on what you want on your device, and get a feedback from developers how easy or difficult it is going to be to implement it,

Johny1969 said:
Is there really a filter in there? The 90% of the apps in market are really a bunch of junk, yesterday I saw a 400 bucks app that someone did for fun... (not much fun if someone double click the buy button).
I mean is microsoft really fitering the apps for wp7 or they just want to increase the ammount of apps asap?
When are the good apps (like in windows mobile 6) coming?
When we will able to have some serious apps for buy? I speak about GPS navs, configuration tools for connections, tethering apps, voip and all the great stuff that we had on windows mobile etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you saying the Android market isn't full of junk? When I perused the Android market, I say 90% filler, including sex app after sex app. And I saw personal quote apps a plenty.

MartyLK said:
So are you saying the Android market isn't full of junk? When I perused the Android market, I say 90% filler, including sex app after sex app. And I saw personal quote apps a plenty.
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Stop bringing Android, no need to stir it this way, the thread is about WP7 market.

it goes like this...eventually as the good developers port their apps over to WP7, and the so-so developers get better as they become accustomed to the platform,...the apps on the market will get better. And those apps that are "rubbish" will eventually fade away.
And yes, if you think the WP7 market place is rubbish, there's no doubt that all that rubbish is on every other phone's market place as well...just more of it

lol, I registered to answer this question.
Alot of people are correct in this thread.. Developers are just try to quickly recoup their $99 investment. There is some low lying fruit that can quickly make a buck in a marketplace that has relatively no competition. Flashlights / farts / quotes / bartenders / etc are very easy to make and are a good introduction to new wp7 developers.
What I really came here to say though, is that there is a BIG onus on US to review and rate these apps. We should rate and review every single app we use. Even if you give it a low rating it will push apps that noone even bought lower on the list. I've seen a few free apps with 0 reviews.. this should not happen.
I have an app in development that should be above mediocre, but it takes time and I only got my device for testing 2 days ago. So be patient, we're churning them out.

itchison said:
lol, I registered to answer this question.
Alot of people are correct in this thread.. Developers are just try to quickly recoup their $99 investment. There is some low lying fruit that can quickly make a buck in a marketplace that has relatively no competition. Flashlights / farts / quotes / bartenders / etc are very easy to make and are a good introduction to new wp7 developers.
What I really came here to say though, is that there is a BIG onus on US to review and rate these apps. We should rate and review every single app we use. Even if you give it a low rating it will push apps that noone even bought lower on the list. I've seen a few free apps with 0 reviews.. this should not happen.
I have an app in development that should be above mediocre, but it takes time and I only got my device for testing 2 days ago. So be patient, we're churning them out.
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Thank you for this bit of reminder. Even when I was in Android, I made good use of the rating system...in WinMo on the HD2 also...and I most of the time forgot to rate them myself.

All these app stores, Apple, Android and Microsoft's, suffer the same problem that there's a glut of garbage in them. I can't speak for Android's as I haven't used it in ages but the problem with Apple's is their lousy rating and review system and poor (if any) filtering. I suspect the Apple and Android stores will probably always look like the software version of a garage sale but my hope is that Microsoft identifies and comes up with a good solution to the problem. Being able to sort based on units sold over a period of time, for example, would cause the real trash to immediately sink to the bottom and out of sight regardless of rating. A great fart board is still a fart board, for example, and how many of any individual app is going to be sold? Out of sight, out of mind.

Are The Days Of The Free Windows Phone Apps Without Ads Coming To A Close

As posted at L337Ware
I'm not some kind of communist hippie but I have to admit it's nice to get a high quality free application that isn't marred by Ads every once in a while. I've noticed a trend of sorts lately that alot of applications I originally downloaded aren't offered for free anymore or now have Ads plastered about them. In a matter of fact I probably need to consider how I'm going to update some of the reviews already on this site.
This leads me to wonder why? Is this a sign of things to come? We are already being charged a premium for XBox Live games in comparison to the titles on other platforms even in the light of some missing features. I've kind of attributed that to supply and demand though and know the prices will drop as things become more competitive. Perhaps the initial offerings were a simple test of the waters? I've considered this as developers are still trying to get their footing on this new platform. Regardless it still kind of feels like a bit of a bait and switch to the end user.
That being said I understand the need to cash in because I know some of these applications took a considerable amount of time and effort on the developers part. Honestly I wish as much consideration was placed on developing new business models as producting new products in the mobile market. Creative uses of Geotagging, cameras, and perhaps even social networking could be used as opposed to damaging the user's experience.
Since I kind of dropped the gauntlet there I will cough up a few examples.
Geotagging - The user has to go to say a store in order to unlock an application. This would also work with a setup where a purchase has to be made if a code was offered on the receipt.
Cameras - Scan a bar code for this product using your phone to unlock application. This could even change from month to month as the app relocks.
Social Networking - Like this page on Facebook and keep it liked to keep app full featured or follow this entity on twitter to unlock app.
I'm not saying all of these ideas would be easy or even effective but the current models could definitely use some work. At the end of the day I don't really blame the developers as they are doing what they need to in order to justify their hard work. I believe the burden really falls on the creator of the platform to step up and separate themselves from the pack. In this case I hope Microsoft moves a bit faster than their competition.

L337Ware said:
I hope Microsoft moves a bit faster than their competition.
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I lol'd.....
Seriously though, I noticed on the app store the other day that there's a Lego game where you can unlock in game items by going to a shop and scanning the bar codes on actual Lego products so what your suggesting is probably already happening on a small scale, if not its right around the corner.
MS will probably catch up in 3-4 years ....... just kidding.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

Given the three alternatives you proposed, I'd take ads in the app over all of them. All of those would be far more annoying requirements than a minimal ad that I most likely won't respond to anyway. In those cases, I have to go out of my way to locate a product and allow someone else to be aware of my activity.
All things considered, I think I'd rather keep things as they are. Many of the ad-based apps I have now only display the ads on title, setup, and other ancillary screens, not during the main functions of the app. That seems like a reasonable approach.

I can see where you are coming from. Thing is I tend to get very annoyed when I accidentally click an ad while trying to use an application. Seriously I'm not really a professional in the field of digital marketing but if I can come up with alternatives that easily there definately has to be a better way.

L337Ware said:
I can see where you are coming from. Thing is I tend to get very annoyed when I accidentally click an ad while trying to use an application. Seriously I'm not really a professional in the field of digital marketing but if I can come up with alternatives that easily there definately has to be a better way.
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Click to collapse
I've never accidentally clicked an ad in an app. Either you need to start using higher quality apps or finetune your motor skills
Sure, your alternatives are interesting, but how exactly would developers get paid using them? Take the FB/Twitter like/follow scenario for example - sure, you gain a bunch of followers but there's no money changing hands.
Scanning a barcode could work for branded apps, i.e. the app is commissioned by the manufacturers of the product in question. But apps like these are generally free anyway - unless we are talking e.g. Lego Games where this approach would be great (although, including a code INSIDE a box of Legos would be better in terms of revenue).
I really like the GeoTagging idea though, but again I'm not entirely sure how you, as a developer, would leverage this. You could do what Cocktail Flow has done and sell your app for $$$ but include an in-app code-redemption (or in this case, Location-based) system of sorts where the full app unlocks. It sort of limits your reach though as you will either have to contact retailers (or theme parks, coffee shops, etc etc) all across the globe to strike deals with them about kickbacks.
Generally speaking, using GeoLocation or Barcodes is pretty smart, but not for the average developer. Too much overhead in terms of administrating the scheme. For branded apps I definitely think we'll see more taking advantage of this to unlock "special" features or offers though.
As an interesting side-note, there are fairly huge discrepancies between countries in terms or trial-to-paid conversions and the like. The US seems to be very low on the list in buying apps at all whereas Australia is on top when comparing the same app, with an equal price. As a "desktop" ISV I've never come across this before (the US has always given very high trial-to-paid conversions for me) so there is something about the mobile sector that makes people vary about purchasing apps. Even comparing a $20 desktop app with a $1 mobile app the desktop app has higher sales. My take is that the app "bubble" is about to burst.

how dare the devs make money???
Research has shown that ad supported apps do better than paid apps. I would gladly pay for any app over an ad supported, but apparently I'm in the minority on that one.
Just ask the indie developer Elbert Perez, over 100k made on ad revenue...

ad free - the wonderful application that blocks ad related sites systen-wide. love it !

emigrating said:
I've never accidentally clicked an ad in an app. Either you need to start using higher quality apps or finetune your motor skills
Sure, your alternatives are interesting, but how exactly would developers get paid using them? Take the FB/Twitter like/follow scenario for example - sure, you gain a bunch of followers but there's no money changing hands.
Scanning a barcode could work for branded apps, i.e. the app is commissioned by the manufacturers of the product in question. But apps like these are generally free anyway - unless we are talking e.g. Lego Games where this approach would be great (although, including a code INSIDE a box of Legos would be better in terms of revenue).
I really like the GeoTagging idea though, but again I'm not entirely sure how you, as a developer, would leverage this. You could do what Cocktail Flow has done and sell your app for $$$ but include an in-app code-redemption (or in this case, Location-based) system of sorts where the full app unlocks. It sort of limits your reach though as you will either have to contact retailers (or theme parks, coffee shops, etc etc) all across the globe to strike deals with them about kickbacks.
Generally speaking, using GeoLocation or Barcodes is pretty smart, but not for the average developer. Too much overhead in terms of administrating the scheme. For branded apps I definitely think we'll see more taking advantage of this to unlock "special" features or offers though.
As an interesting side-note, there are fairly huge discrepancies between countries in terms or trial-to-paid conversions and the like. The US seems to be very low on the list in buying apps at all whereas Australia is on top when comparing the same app, with an equal price. As a "desktop" ISV I've never come across this before (the US has always given very high trial-to-paid conversions for me) so there is something about the mobile sector that makes people vary about purchasing apps. Even comparing a $20 desktop app with a $1 mobile app the desktop app has higher sales. My take is that the app "bubble" is about to burst.
Click to expand...
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Way to be disingenuous...
Desktop apps are easier and better to use, and are usually worth the extra cash. Higher rez graphics, better graphics in general (even with Integrated cards) and generally of higher quality with better support IME.
But it's not hard to misclick an ad when apps seem to have them on the bottom on one screen and at the top of others, and some apps randomly change ad positioning.
It's part of the reason why I uninstalled AlphaJack. There aren't enough people on the platform to not have a ton of "dead" games in your list, and the Ads move from top to bottom on different screens. Also, Ads on the top of the screen in Metro are just terrible, and prone to misclicks because the gesture area is up there (to see your Wi-Fi status and Reception level)... Ads on the bottom are prone to misclicks because the menu and app control buttons are down there. Ads generally look pretty bad and do not fit within the GUI, either...
All those ideas are pretty terrible and with gas prices these days it costs more to go to the store to unlock an app than to just buy it. For me and where I'm located, I could probably buy 10 apps with the gas I wasted just to unlock one app...
How about they just give longer trial periods so that we don't have to buy basically every app on impulse. Very short time limited trials (i.e. Android's 15 minutes), and feature limited trials (many WP7 apps) do not give me incentive to buy anything.
Most functionality we need on a smartphone is trivial to obtain via stock apps, anyways, besides games.

Your options 1 and 2.. Have the user buy something else, or get close to a for-purchase product, to make the app free. Your option 3.. follow them on a social network, never give them any money.
Why not just skip a burger/beer/brownie and give the dev a couple of dollars for the app? I don't understand people.. they'll pay $10-$15 to sit in a movie theater for 2 hours but won't spend $2.99 to use an app everday forevermore. YOu said you respect their time and effort, do you really? Don't forget that they have to pay to be in the Marketplace.
Look, I'm a regular user too... I'm hesitant to spend on something when I don't know if it's good or if free alternatives will do it. That's why MS put trials in. Unfortunately MS wasn't smart enough to have a 3rd category between "paid" and "free" called "trial", so people just browse free apps and devs have to do ads to make money.
This still isn't a big deal. The app's free. The devs support their users for free. Maybe we should be telling Google etc to find a revolutionary new complicated business model and stop sticking ads in our web pages

MSdoes have trial apps.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Add suported model is also the easiest to gain money, no paperwork with ms. A few clicks and your good to go, plus you can serve a much larger crowd since a lot of people can only use free apps on wp7.
Even a big part of europe does not have the possibility to buy apps yet and you dont want to exclude your own countries people ( in my case), your friends and family.

Windows marketing sucks!

you wonder why so many people go and use android and iphone...
microsoft doesnt have any proper marketing strategies i mean the games are overpriced, the apps are still at a low number and there is no real freedom in this os.
dont get me wrong im a user of wp7 and i was excited by the phone but the more they release things the more disappointed i am. you arent paying for games like angry birds and plants vs zombies your basically paying ridiculous prices to use their xbl feature.
i think that if they want to break into the market they should really consider making these games free i know its unfair to the developers but think about how much more people would be interested to hear that they can get free proper games or apps.
but if you want to go and tell these developers to develop games for your os then i think they should make it free like what google did with angry birds although they paid them a butt load of money. microsoft is trying to compete with people that have been in the market for longer making these things free would surely attract more people.
well thats what i think, share your thoughts

There are lots of free apps in the marketplace already. What's your point?
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Making Angry Birds free is not going to sell handsets. Having a feature complete phone (Mango) and sales reps that are actually willing to sell Windows Phones will be what will move handsets.

Once you start working for free, let us know then we'll take your point up with Microsoft and the developers who will obviously be ecstatic to forgo any charges for their work.

my point isnt saying there isnt any free apps.. its saying maybe instead of jacking up prices so high they should focus on reasonable prices, its because its xbl integrated that they charging so high
as i said their marketing sucks.. im simply saying that if they think about what users want and how they should take android and iphone as examples.

once i start working for free?
what you on about? if they willing to spend 8bil on skype and not even integrate it on wp7 why cant they spend few hundred k on developers to bring in more apps and games...

they're learning... they can't copy apple snobbishness or androids openness... they need something new fresh, different. give them time, they'll find a niche eventually.

As I said...Microsoft marketing sucks
compared this two sites
Microsoft
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/features/whats-next.aspx
Apple
http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/
Both coming this fall....IMO,microsoft is not working aggressive as apple does...in apple ios5 site,it has almost everything...gallery,video,features,notify me function....Microsoft one is just looks like they are not ready....

Sumunk said:
you wonder why so many people go and use android and iphone...
microsoft doesnt have any proper marketing strategies i mean the games are overpriced, the apps are still at a low number and there is no real freedom in this os.
dont get me wrong im a user of wp7 and i was excited by the phone but the more they release things the more disappointed i am. you arent paying for games like angry birds and plants vs zombies your basically paying ridiculous prices to use their xbl feature.
i think that if they want to break into the market they should really consider making these games free i know its unfair to the developers but think about how much more people would be interested to hear that they can get free proper games or apps.
but if you want to go and tell these developers to develop games for your os then i think they should make it free like what google did with angry birds although they paid them a butt load of money. microsoft is trying to compete with people that have been in the market for longer making these things free would surely attract more people.
well thats what i think, share your thoughts
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if they make games for free , they either pay the developers or screw them.
if they screw the developers no one is going to make more applications for wp7....
and really... the phones costs like 500 dollars, paying 50 dollars more for your apps is not unreasonable.....
and of course that microsoft marketing sucks compared to apple, apple is the most successful marketing company in the world. ofcourse this does not make it impossible for Microsoft to improve

I'd rather they charge $2.99 so that we have more high quality games and apps on our phones. It's not that much money...less than a burger king meal.

...you have 2 different kind of points:
a) Apps prices: This is not Microsoft's responsability. The prices are fixed by the developers of the apps. Marketplace is just the site who makes it possilbe for you to purchase them.
b) Microsoft marketing: Yes, in this respect, they are still far behind Apple. But you have to consider that Microsoft has not the same market approach like Apple.
- Apple has their own sales outlets
- Apple has a big influence regarding marketing and advertising budgets with their retail partners. Apple dictates what they have to do and what they have to spend.
- Same applies to the selected providers who sell Apple products.
Microsoft is in partnership with the device makers and the providers and depending on them. Now who is responsible for the marketing? Mircrosoft? The Makers? The Providers? Microsoft startet with a budget of 500 Mio $. But this is peanuts for a global campaign to introduce something totally new and from what I can see at least here in Europe, the Makers and the Providers are still very reluctant to invest their money in promoting WP7

Well, technically Microsoft does set the prices of XBL games, since they all are published under the "Microsoft Games Studios" banner.
As far as "free" games "screwing" developers or resulting in lower quality, remember that the most sought-after game that has just been released on WP7 is a port of a game that is already available on the other platforms at a lower price, with more levels. Oh, and according to most recent data, Rovio is earning about a million dollars a month from the ads in the free Android version. That doesn't exactly sound like they are getting "screwed" to me.

I was in long Island, NY last week listening to a rock station as I was traveling through. I heard 3 Windows Phone 7 commercals on the radio. It was on aAir plane and they discusses something about powering off phones incuding you with the new Windows Phone (and a few others got in a WOW type thing about the phone)
Same commercal 3 times, it was for the Verizon HTC Trophy (didn't think Verizon cared about it that much)
This would be the first time I heard a Radio ad, I've seen tons on TV tho...
As for the App costs, I will agree, anything over $2.99 for a mobile app or game is WAY too much. MAYBE in a rare case for a High end game (big brand name with the game to back it up) $3.99-$4.99 is acceptable, in a RARE CASE. $6.99 for Sonic is crazy, not for a game (tried the demo) that should just be a flashback game($1.99) as it plays just like the 16bit sega system did.
FTC said:
...you have 2 different kind of points:
a) Apps prices: This is not Microsoft's responsability. The prices are fixed by the developers of the apps. Marketplace is just the site who makes it possilbe for you to purchase them.
...<snip>
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Actually I think they did. When Microsoft released the first few games (before lots of developer "good games" came in), some were at $4.99 (think ilomilo and few other of the release games) , so developers said, Microsoft can do it, why can't we ?
If they started out with new games at $1.99 or $2.99 I bet it would of set a standard because no one wanted to be that crazy over priced person that does not sell any programs. Now you see $4.99-6.99 the norm for mid line games and I still think that's nuts for a phone game (if it was xbox live on my 360 in 720p/1080p with 5.1 audio, it's different and worth that or more)

So it's okay that you spend a thousand dollars every year to use your smartphone, but omg they better not charge more than $2.99 for an app!
AT&T 450 minutes + unlimited text + 2GB data = $85 + fees and taxes (about $5) = $90 a month
$90 x 12 months = $1080 a year
And that's for the cheapest talk plan they have.

honestly some of you guys have good points and some of you dont have good points..
its not about spending how much on a contract.. thats kinda what you bought the phone for, its not about spending alot on games either its about what microsoft is trying to do, being different sometimes isnt a good thing as it leads to un-satisfied customers and thus leading to people changing back to android or iphone.
i believe they can still come out right after they listen to their customers.
reasonable prices for reasonable games.
and if you wanna say angry birds is worth it, guess again its missing the new chapters.. its only got 1 - 4.. wheres the rest.. is this the best that they could do for MS? wheres seasons and rio?

Marketing:
Yes the WP7 marketing hasn't been the best. The onslaught hasn't fully started yet though - I believe they are waiting first for year close and stronger marketing from their favorite partner... Nokia.
I expect Mango marketing will be better but they haven't quite hit stride - this is less then a year out with limited hardware... just give it some time.
App prices... yes they are high - simple fact is NUMBERS. App Devs will charge what they can get away with. WP7 want the apps and they are willing to pay the prices for them. As the device count spreads the pricing may begin to drop to attract other users who have not downloaded because of cost.
We are here at the beginning so of course we'll get hit the hardest

Microsoft marketing is horrendous. I've had 5 WinMo devices, too long complacent with the incremental changes. They had a market to themselves but had let others run away with it. The large oceanliner that is Microsoft takes so long to change heading. I was looking forward to WP7, and when it first came out at Verizon, I went to check it out. I've been to 4 VZ stores and none of them have the phone activated. NONE! I can't check out IE to browse anything. How is that supposed to sell anyone? I tried to contact Microsoft about the fact that their demo phones aren't even activated, but instead I got some rep from another country. I told him to escalate it to his manager, provided my info, but no one has gotten back to me. I went back to another VZ store and still... the demo WP7 had no service.
I'm quite upset about it, but I'm not above switching away from WinMo until Microsoft gets a clue with what to do with all the money they make.
I'm going to give calling Microsoft a final shot and see if I can get some fat exec to listen to me.

Sumunk said:
honestly some of you guys have good points and some of you dont have good points..
its not about spending how much on a contract.. thats kinda what you bought the phone for, its not about spending alot on games either its about what microsoft is trying to do, being different sometimes isnt a good thing as it leads to un-satisfied customers and thus leading to people changing back to android or iphone.
i believe they can still come out right after they listen to their customers.
reasonable prices for reasonable games.
and if you wanna say angry birds is worth it, guess again its missing the new chapters.. its only got 1 - 4.. wheres the rest.. is this the best that they could do for MS? wheres seasons and rio?
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I'm going to quote a conversation here:
I confess Instapaper is pretty interesting to me, it's just not worth $4.99 to me. I would probably buy it for $0.99. I realize that's really cheap, but Apple has really trained me that stuff should be free (or $0.99 at most).
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This attitude blows my mind.. but you aren't alone.
Any app on App Store that isn't 99 cents is littered with reviews demanding that it should be 99 cents.. even if it's only 1.99.
Really.. mind blown. It's seriously de-valuing the concept of a software application.. and making it really hard for me to believe the hype in the mobile industry.
I saw some articles even about Angry Birds profitability.. they mentioned some company investing almost $50 million in Roxio.. but they also mentioned the game hasn't even made $10 million in sales.. although it does allegedly generate $1 million a month in revenue from ads on Android... they said the most profitable part of Roxio is their toy and other item sales.
The numbers don't add up for me.. I get that the budget is small.. but it's still an industry limited by the price consumers are demanding.
ALL of App Store did $1.7 billion in 2010? And that's 350,000 apps?
That's less than $5,000 per app...
By the time Call of Duty Black Ops is a year old.. it will probably have done the same revenue that all of App Store did in 2010... it's already most likely fairly close.
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Also, this is interesting:
i.imgur.com/8bbmJ.jpg
DavidinCT said:
If they started out with new games at $1.99 or $2.99 I bet it would of set a standard because no one wanted to be that crazy over priced person that does not sell any programs. Now you see $4.99-6.99 the norm for mid line games and I still think that's nuts for a phone game (if it was xbox live on my 360 in 720p/1080p with 5.1 audio, it's different and worth that or more)
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The average price is actually $2.99 for most games (AUD3.99 here in Australia), but I'm not sure if I understand your logic. How does the platform you play the game on change it's worth?

This platfrom has a lot of potential, but MS needs to listen to its users.
App prices are not the reason it will fail. I'm sorry but as a developer my time is worth more than $0.99 Those that think otherwise have no programming experience. Sure can I make millions off of one good app that is 99 cents or free, YES, but the odds of that happening are slim with how many apps come out.
Their marketing is what will kill this platform. well that along with not listening to the needs of the users. The notification system is now going to be behind the other 2 major players and that is not good for heavy users.
They need to fix their endpoint sales. Very few sales reps are excited about the platform.
I have one friend that bought a wp7, focus I think, and he hates it. I keep saying wait for the update, but the update is missing features he wants. The sad thing is they are features that are easily to implement. missing feattures is a whole differnt thread, but he just wants the ability to group his apps kinda like the contacts can be grouped now. The letter search is not a good approach because that requires me to search by name instead of function.

I have SGS and Optimus 7.
Almost every app, that i use in android i can use in wp too.
Only problem, for now, i can't buy apps yet, but that will be fixed when marketplace opens in Finland.
Soon nothing won't keep me on android.
There is so much trash apps on android market, so it is hard to find really important apps.