Related
on this post http://wmpoweruser.com/two-windows-phone-7-updates-coming-before-mid-year/, it seems that the "january" update is coming out at either late february or march: "Just wanted to let you know that the article regarding "two updates’ for WP7 is incorrect, partially. There will be indeed two updates, but CDMA is coming as part of the first update. This is due out late Feb / Early March. The reason the update is so late is due to the CDMA support."
so it seems that this'll be coming out likely on march. sucks! The longer MS delays this update, the more their platform could potentially suffer.
Till we get an offical word from CDMA providers, it does not mean anything. Thanks for the post but, it's kind of what they have been saying for a few weeks now.
You'll see CDMA phones as well as the Copy and paste on the same day..
DavidinCT said:
Till we get an offical word from CDMA providers, it does not mean anything. Thanks for the post but, it's kind of what they have been saying for a few weeks now.
You'll see CDMA phones as well as the Copy and paste on the same day..
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Don't you mean "official word from MSFT"?
In any case, I'm happy enough to wait for copy and paste or any other functional updates. I'm not too happy about having to continually wait for bugfixes though, they need to start getting these out as and when they're fixed.
I wonder what's so difficult and time-consuming to implement CDMA support on a platform ?
WhyBe said:
I wonder what's so difficult and time-consuming to implement CDMA support on a platform ?
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I have scratched my head raw over that and other things MS is doing...erm...not doing...with WP7. I have the idea they are kind of gun shy. They have the best mobile OS skeleton ever created and are terrified they may screw it up some minor way. So they are tippy-toeing as though walking on eggs with WP7 integration.
Patience running thin
This is a big mistake on the part of MS. Waiting for CDMA???? They have an obligation to their early adopters before supporting CDMA, IMHO. The issues with SD cards on Samsung Focus devices is no trivial issue and waiting 2 months to solve this is unacceptable. They need to get their heads on straight and start presenting a logical and believable issues and features update path to the market. They may be the 300 pound gorilla in the room, but there are a whole bunch of other gorillas who have been in this room for much longer. This is absurd and nonsensical.
OMG WE HAVE TO WAIT A MONTH LONGER FOR SUPPORT ON CDMA (which quite frankly sucks) and copy and paste (which I'm sure very few will use) on our OS that is just as close as any other to perfect? man that sucks, I dont know what I'll do... oh wait, I'll go play some original xbox live titles and use my zunepass while watching netflix all seamlessly. Duh! I understand that the verizon people are upset and whatever but I mean CDMA shouldve been dead long ago anyway...
z33dev33l said:
OMG WE HAVE TO WAIT A MONTH LONGER FOR SUPPORT ON CDMA (which quite frankly sucks) and copy and paste (which I'm sure very few will use) on our OS that is just as close as any other to perfect? man that sucks, I dont know what I'll do... oh wait, I'll go play some original xbox live titles and use my zunepass while watching netflix all seamlessly. Duh! I understand that the verizon people are upset and whatever but I mean CDMA shouldve been dead long ago anyway...
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I agree with most of that, and I don't think anyone is really saying they suck for taking their time getting CDMA support. Heck, I don't even think most people are that bothered about Cut'n'Paste (or any other added functionality) takes a little longer. What I, and reading comments on other websites - most people - have a problem with is their unwillingness to supply hotfixes as and when they have been patched and tested.
I hate bringing up the camera, yet again, but they touted the dedicated camera button as a killer feature - and for me, it is, I tend to use the camera lots - but having the camera settings revert to sucky mode every time means the whole feature is dead. By the time you've fiddled around in the settings to get a good photo, the moment has passed and that great photo you were gonna take turns into a blurfest of someone's back. Not delivering a fix for this by now is outrageous. Being told there will be no update (and by update I really mean bugfixes) until March is even worse. Being told we have to wait until March when their publically available information first stated January is friggin unforgiveable if you ask me.
emigrating said:
I agree with most of that, and I don't think anyone is really saying they suck for taking their time getting CDMA support. Heck, I don't even think most people are that bothered about Cut'n'Paste (or any other added functionality) takes a little longer. What I, and reading comments on other websites - most people - have a problem with is their unwillingness to supply hotfixes as and when they have been patched and tested.
I hate bringing up the camera, yet again, but they touted the dedicated camera button as a killer feature - and for me, it is, I tend to use the camera lots - but having the camera settings revert to sucky mode every time means the whole feature is dead. By the time you've fiddled around in the settings to get a good photo, the moment has passed and that great photo you were gonna take turns into a blurfest of someone's back. Not delivering a fix for this by now is outrageous. Being told there will be no update (and by update I really mean bugfixes) until March is even worse. Being told we have to wait until March when their publically available information first stated January is friggin unforgiveable if you ask me.
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What I do is set my HD7 aside, for a time in the future when WP7 will be actually real and useful, and grab hold of my Android phone and use all the needed and desired features WP7 doesn't offer and be happy. Pictures are a breeze to take...with anything other than my HD7.
WhyBe said:
I wonder what's so difficult and time-consuming to implement CDMA support on a platform ?
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Drivers for different chipset probably.
Earned
I have been the staunchest defender of WP7 and MS, and I will continue to be but this type of inaction in the face of real issues (I don't give a rats rear end about C&P) makes it very tough. My own feeling is that this tortoiselike approach is going to earn MS few friends in the market. This is not the Windows desktop market. Although I have to say, having auto update set on my Windows XP, I get regular hot fixes sent automatically to my laptop. Shouldn't we expect the same or better in this face paced market?
Look, if some of these issues are allowed to fester for 2 more months, MS has earned all of the negative feedback they have asked for. This is a new OS for goodness sake, you want to put your best foot forward especially in a market served by vendors who have mature or maturing competitive products. If you can't, you want to appear to be as responsive as you can so missing features and real problems become non-issues. In other words, who cares, MS will fix it immediately.
This is unacceptable and anyone looking at this objectively must feel the same.
Agreed
neoxphuse said:
small updates, one every 2 weeks should be sufficient. i've had my for over a month now.
they need to implement faster. sometimes i don't understand. as the previous poster says, really? saving camera settings? come on.
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There is no excuse for this and other issues. AT&T and Samsung sell SDHC cards as accessories for the Samsung Focus. There are serious issues with these cards and several threads in these forums address those. No Flash support is a real issue. Many sites I visit regularly I can no longer view animations, something I could do with WM 6.5.X custom ROMs. Come on now, if the chefs customizing for WM 6.5.x can provide this, why can't MS? I am not going to go on. These are ussues and not missing features. How real is multi-tasking, who knows. How real are the three issues I mentioned above - very real!!! I went to the noaa.gov site to look at animated radar maps, no go. I tried to buy my daughter an ecard from Hallmark and tried to view the cards before buying - no go. This is rediculous. I am waiting for the telltale signs of sdhc card problems to begin popping up as I add more data. What kind of experience is this, MS. You want my vote on this and your sincerity in fixing these issues? I don't think so.
Flash is Adobe product, nothing Microsoft can do to speed up the flash player development from Adobe (which outsourced all its devs to India).
foxbat121 said:
Flash is Adobe product, nothing Microsoft can do to speed up the flash player development from Adobe (which outsourced all its devs to India).
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actually this isn't entirely true. whilst adobe flash is not microsoft's product as stated, it is up to MS on how the implementation is done. and MS has acknowledged that they are working closely with adobe to implement flash into windows phone without breaking it's integrity or hindering performance. hence for the august/september release of it.
MartyLK said:
What I do is set my HD7 aside, for a time in the future when WP7 will be actually real and useful, and grab hold of my Android phone and use all the needed and desired features WP7 doesn't offer and be happy. Pictures are a breeze to take...with anything other than my HD7.
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You do that... and remember to let us know in a few months when you've finished customising and hacking it so you can actually do something useful on it.
This is worrying. Looks like they were really really unready when releasing WP7.
This delay - if true - is really annoying.
Because some things on WP7 are idiotic and should be improved ASAP.
Camera not remembering settings is a joke. But I also think c&p should be here earlier.
But what is also worrying is how late will be the next update? When most of the countries will be supported? What about Bing?
Because all of the rumour I read is c&p. OK we need it.
But in fact looking as a whole, in most countries WP7 is still a cripppled product. I have no native letters in keyboard, no language support, can't buy Marketplace stuff etc.
Basically it is ridiculous. I see nowhere any sign of change.
With all the sympathy I don't imagine waiting a year or more for that, and considering amount of work which has to be done by MS... Looks like a bad JOKE.
I start to think that the first update will be decisive factor.
Call me weird, but I love the fact that camera resets itself to default settings, it's the best way to make quick shots and be sure the result will be more or less decent.
As regards update delay, you never know what's happening. They may have found a bug in their update system or whatever.
Just so you guys know, MS is now promoting the behaviour of the camera not saving settings as a FEATURE, clearly listed in their how-to on pictures; http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/pictures/take-a-picture-or-record-a-video.aspx. So I wouldnt necessarily expect a fix anytime soon.
MartyLK said:
What I do is set my HD7 aside, for a time in the future when WP7 will be actually real and useful, and grab hold of my Android phone and use all the needed and desired features WP7 doesn't offer and be happy. Pictures are a breeze to take...with anything other than my HD7.
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Thanks that was really helpful
Joking aside, I actually like the way all my settings pop back to the defaults each time I take a new round of photos. I use the default settings 99% of the time and get pretty good results. If I set the camera for, I dunno, sepia, for one session, the last thing I want is to then quickly take an important pic later on, only for it to come out bloody sepia again, just because my last shoot was sepia.
The default settings are fine for those quick point-n-shoot moments, the moments where the dedicated camera button really helps capture the shot before its gone.
I for one think Microsoft should leave things as they are.
efjay said:
Just so you guys know, MS is now promoting the behaviour of the camera not saving settings as a FEATURE, clearly listed in their how-to on pictures; http://www.microsoft.com/windowsphone/en-us/howto/wp7/pictures/take-a-picture-or-record-a-video.aspx. So I wouldnt necessarily expect a fix anytime soon.
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and Ballmer would use his favorite phrase: " it's not a bug, it's a feature!" xD... like who cares if nobody like it... =P Anyway the default mode is the best for many different conditions but it should have at least "save" option or avutosave and one button "default".
hello i'm an android user but i have great news for you. Microsoft released this kb article and this means that the first update for WP7 is almost here
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2484484/en-us
sammy_user said:
hello i'm an android user but i have great news for you. Microsoft released this kb article and this means that the first update for WP7 is almost here
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2484484/en-us
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Old news, old... It was released some time ago...
yea it is a few days old, but thanks for sharing with us though and please keep us informed of anything more you may find. appreciate you taking the step to come and share with us, even if you aren't a windows phone user.
Yeah despite this being old, this is a big indication we could see the update between tomorrow and next week. I'm sure Microsoft wants to get the update out before or during MWC so they have something worthwhile to present there.
Also, I'm expecting details of that second update at the MIX 11 developers conference this year. After all, MS introduced WP7 at MWC and then went into more detail when MIX came around.
Perhaps 7th Feb
Ive read that the update will be out on the 7th Feb.
I wouldn't count on Feb. 7 date, it may happen but don't get your hopes up. This rumour reminds me of the MS CES tablet stuff that never really happened. The original blog that reported Feb. 7 didn't provide any proof did they?
mayfly007 said:
Ive read that the update will be out on the 7th Feb.
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AFAIK, this is correct, but it's predicted for the "week of the 7th" so it could be any time next week. Can confirm the update is with carriers around the world.
Can I ask a possibly dumb question? Why is everyone so pumped for an update?
It's just, I know it'll speed up apps loading, and add copy+paste, etc. But I mean, even without it, wp7 is such a smooth OS, I just don't know what the rush is in hoping for an "OMG UPDATEZZ!!!1!111". It's not like wp7 is broken right now, and only an update will make it useable. And honestly I've only needed to use copy/paste once, and even then it wasn't a big deal...
I suspect everyone will be quite disappointed by the update...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
sure haven't said:
Can I ask a possibly dumb question? Why is everyone so pumped for an update?
It's just, I know it'll speed up apps loading, and add copy+paste, etc. But I mean, even without it, wp7 is such a smooth OS, I just don't know what the rush is in hoping for an "OMG UPDATEZZ!!!1!111". It's not like wp7 is broken right now, and only an update will make it useable. And honestly I've only needed to use copy/paste once, and even then it wasn't a big deal...
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C & P alone is a big deal, but maybe it will fix other broken aspects of the OS like random hard-resets, messed up market, etc..
Credibility
landwomble said:
I suspect everyone will be quite disappointed by the update...
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
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I suspect that none of the features/fixes in the update, by themselves or taken as a whole, will be a "big deal". For many of us, this is a test of Microsofts credibility and support for this OS. The real question is, are they going to become responsive to their user base and make serious attempts to keep current with their competition? Most of us are waiting to see how often they release updates and whether the contents of those updates are valuable to their user base. We won't know that for a few updates I am sure.
orangekid said:
messed up market, etc..
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You know what, yeah I can see that. The marketplace freezing is verrrrry annoying. Makes me feel like I'm on 6.5 again.
And this...
orangekid said:
random hard-resets
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...frightens me a little. Haven't heard of that before.
The real signal that the update is coming soon is when the Zune and Mac clients are updated to make backups. That's what I'm most looking forward to. Up until now there's no way to back up text messages, files, or app data and I have a lot of stuff on my phone I'd like to protect.
I use the Samsung Focus. I've never had any Market place issues with freeze ups, Ive certainly never had a random hard reset. I've only wished hard, around 4 times since 11/8/10 that I could copy and paste. I also haven't been able to view 90% of the embedded videos on the web sites Ive visited (Flash?). I want an update.. like 3 weeks ago like the big boys at MS said I would. I want to have enough faith in MS that come next upgrade I feel excited to update my hardware not my OS.
Same Experience
Seed 2.0 said:
I use the Samsung Focus. I've never had any Market place issues with freeze ups, Ive certainly never had a random hard reset. I've only wished hard, around 4 times since 11/8/10 that I could copy and paste. I also haven't been able to view 90% of the embedded videos on the web sites Ive visited (Flash?). I want an update.. like 3 weeks ago like the big boys at MS said I would. I want to have enough faith in MS that come next upgrade I feel excited to update my hardware not my OS.
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No lags, no issues with Marketplace, no resets, no freezes, two instances when copy and paste would have been nice, but countless need for Flash. Waiting to see what MS comes through with, and then the frequency of followup updates.
JamesAllen said:
No lags, no issues with Marketplace, no resets, no freezes, two instances when copy and paste would have been nice, but countless need for Flash. Waiting to see what MS comes through with, and then the frequency of followup updates.
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thats primarily up to Adobe.... and now that their development is outsourced to India I don't put too much faith in them...
z33dev33l said:
thats primarily up to Adobe.... and now that their development is outsourced to India I don't put too much faith in them...
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What's wrong with India?
vetvito said:
What's wrong with India?
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It's more the outsourcing period...
I need update. So many things missing.
Countless c&p lacks, flash..... Eeeeh, it's so annoying.
Marketplace works like crap sometimes - just hangs.
Also some apps are laggy.
vetvito said:
What's wrong with India?
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Nothing wrong with the country, but I've seen several references to how outsourcing to low-cost countries really doesn't lower the development cost...Here in Norway, it seems most of the outsourced projects gets scrapped because they never finish. Might be because it's hard to delegate to people almost on the other side of the world, might be differences in cultures etc etc.
I don't put too much trust in outsourcing at all...unless the management actually spend time with the team.
I've been sitting on the sidelines not being vocal, but I think there's something we need to consider...
When we got our wp7 phones we need what features were lacking. If you didn't you should have done some research before you bought the phone. Wp7 is still in its infancy and expect there to be bugs and problems. If you wanted something more concrete should have stick with your iphone or Android. For what we do have everything seems to run pretty smooth.
Im not going to lie, but I curious about the nodo update. But im glad I haven't received it. Because then our phones will be locked and the homebrew segment and actual limited customization will be gone. Until someone of course finds a work around. And someone always does. And honestly, on your old phones how many of you even knew it had a copy.paste feature? Instead of focusing on nodo update which doesn't really do much, except speed up our phones, why no concentrate more on mango! Mango is the update that we all should want! Just my two cents. Btw i use a HTC hd7 on tmobile USA and its done everything i wanted without any problems!
I think people are focusing on Nodo because it's the 1st update and it will give us an idea about how Microsoft will handle the platform.
If they can't even handle a small update with almost nothing in it, this is worrying for the future. If they need 5 months to release such a small update, when will we get Mango? it's nice to make big promises about Mango but I'm starting to believe Thurrott when he says 2012 when you consider Microsoft's pace. I couldn't care less about Nodo, I don't use C&P that much and it doesn't fix the bugs people really care about like Live Tiles and push notifications not working. It only fixes one bug and that's the marketplace one.
And how long until we stop saying "they've just started, give them time"? After 6 months they should be about to deliver their 2nd update and be talking about the next one. Even if it's in 3 months, at least talk about it! They act like they don't give a sh*t and I'm sure soon people will start trading their phones and go back to Android/iOS.
That's true too. But considering this is their first update we can't assume things will be perfect. Now if the next major update rolls out and there's still issues with updating I for would question Microsoft. But I see your point of view. Perhaps Microsoft was releasing this small update to see how their update system would work? Dunno, but don't give up on Microsoft just yet. Trust me, I miss my android G2, but my wp7 phone hasn't let me done yet. And I was just thinking, do we really need multitasking? That could open up a whole new can of worms.
A can of good worms. Especially in the Modding scene.
vetvito said:
A can of good worms. Especially in the Modding scene.
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I've been the first to defend WP7 and Microsoft all over XDA for months now but with official announcements starting to be pushed back while devices in other countries and even some here are running the update Microsoft is really starting to look bad.
z33dev33l said:
I've been the first to defend WP7 and Microsoft all over XDA for months now but with official announcements starting to be pushed back while devices in other countries and even some here are running the update Microsoft is really starting to look bad.
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Same here. I'm really starting to get worried that it'll be like everyone feared.
Oh well, I really thought they would up their game with this.
Still a great phone, just now I know it won't be supported.
I'm still not quite sure what carriers have to do with updating the phone. The update comes through Zune. C&P can't screw up a network, neither can the marketplace not crashing all the time.
In other words, this update fiasco is purely MS's fault.
Be it that they didn't make a better deal with carriers, they underestimated logistics, they haven't been forthright with customers, it is the fault of MS.
On the other hand. If you bought the phone because some said someone at MS said an update was coming out soon that would add C&P, I can see how you'd be pissed off, but you'd still be silly for buying a phone based on a rumor as opposed to its merits, which are plentiful.
My problem with this whole thing is:
1/. If MS was gonna stay mum and not update us on the delays, they should've STFU all the way until they announced a concrete date for the update.
2/. If MS was gonna talk about updates, they should've kept us posted all the way instead of tidbits here and there.
The way their going about it making it so some can't even recommend WP7 because of this update fiasco. I mean, since when couldn't MS send out bug fixes? I get one almost every week for my PC and that OS is way more complicated than a phone OS.
That's so true. They shouldn't make promises they can't keep. And if they say something and it dont go right atleast keep us in the loop. I also agree its hard to reccomend a phone where the support from Microsoft seems to be very spotty. So my question is, is it still too early to tell the future of wp7? I guess now I can understand why some people are asking about trying to dual boot on our phones. So is it the carriers fault, Microsoft fault, or the OEMs hardware fault we're not getting updates? And since we have to update through Zune, what do the carriers have anything to do with the updates?
I think what is forgotten here is that XDA is a geek forum. Most people do not have a clue about copy and paste. They want to hear music surf the web and take pictures. We easily forget that we are not normal consumers.
hassia said:
I think what is forgotten here is that XDA is a geek forum. Most people do not have a clue about copy and paste. They want to hear music surf the web and take pictures. We easily forget that we are not normal consumers.
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Normal customers want their push notifications to work properly, that should have been fixed within a month and Microsoft haven't even talked about it.
Peew971 said:
Normal customers want their push notifications to work properly, that should have been fixed within a month and Microsoft haven't even talked about it.
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Hear, hear! Allowing a maximum of 15 apps with notifications was a huge oversight on their part, and afaik there are still no plans to fix this.
As for the marketplace bugs, from what I can tell not even all of those are fixed in the No[Can]Do upgrade. Probably because this particular update has been sitting on the MS servers since January waiting for an actual release.
emigrating said:
Hear, hear! Allowing a maximum of 15 apps with notifications was a huge oversight on their part, and afaik there are still no plans to fix this.
As for the marketplace bugs, from what I can tell not even all of those are fixed in the No[Can]Do upgrade. Probably because this particular update has been sitting on the MS servers since January waiting for an actual release.
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The messed up part is that this is an advantage.
While they were ironing out whatever back-alley deals they had to iron out with the carriers, they could've been taking notes on what actual people in the know on forums like these had to ***** about.
They could've then slipped a few of the fixes, swapped a few 1s with 0s in the code, tweaked it around just a bit to make the OS even better.
Instead, we're going to get the update verbatim, the geek world is going to laugh and MS is gonna wonder where it all went wrong for the umpteenth time.
Probably just a reiteration of what others have said, but nonetheless my opinion. Microsoft first said that the NoDo update would be coming early next year so most people assumed January, than they said late February (I think they did), then it was early March, and now its late March. This update merely adds copy + paste (along with a few bugfixes, one of which ISN'T for the camera) and that is a very basic feature! Apple just released iOS 4.3 (which updated the Safari javascript engine and some other stuff) AHEAD of schedule by 2 days and Microsoft keeps pushing back a minor update by weeks.
I'm pissed because I want WP7 to succeed. I used the device and I loved the device, but it's not nearly as good as its competitors as a whole. If Microsoft doesn't figure out what their doing WP7 will fail.
The general rule is you NEVER buy a phone based on what is "coming". You always buy based on what is in the phone when you bought it. I went through the same crap with blackberry, promising an os update to the storm 2 series. When OS6 came out they were like nope, not supporting that handset. Go buy a the touch.
I'm very satisfied with the Samsung Focus I have now, any future updates is just icing on the cake. You'll be sorely disappointed if you buy things based on promises
Sorry I will have to reiterate my post 'normal consumers' want to play music,surf the web play youtube and games most will not use copy and paste that is just a fact. I work in a theater with a varied range of people most do not even know they have copy and paste capabilities.
http://windowsteamblog.com/windows_...1/03/10/phone-updates-process-and-timing.aspx
At least somebody has been hired to start saying something
There’s one more thing I want to clear up. I’ve seen a lot of speculation on blogs and forums lately about whether carriers can “block” an update. We work closely with carriers to test and schedule updates. They may ask us for a specific date to start an update. They may ask for updates to be bundled together. But you should ultimately receive all the updates we send out.
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Damn you Carriers!
This short pause should in no way impact the timing of future updates, including the one announced recently at Mobile World Congress featuring multitasking, a Twitter feature, and a new HTML 5-friendly version of Internet Explorer Mobile.
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I sure hope so...
This is just what I expected, But I don't think it can penetrate the people's stupidity. Hopefully this can SHUT some of the people UP.
At least someone at Microsoft said something about the updates, even though it doesn't say a whole lot.
Lets hope they become a bit more vocal about things, instead of relying on rumors to become news.
His post was full of words, but didn't really tell us anything at all. I think he's probably a politician at heart.
1. they test updates at ms
2. carriers also test the updates, some carriers take longer than others
3. carriers can request a certain date updates will be allowed. e.g ATT can send an update a week earlier than Verizon (you will get your update but carrier decides when)
4. updates can sometimes include firmware from specific phone manufactures
5. updates are targetted to specific phones. just because LG phones got an update does not mean HTC phones will get an update. see point (2)
6. the snafu about the last update made them pause to make sure this update goes well.
7. The next update is copy and paste, improved market search and other improvements
what do you mean he didn't say anything?
Wow, I'll be honest, I'm both speechless, and pretty much satisfied.
This is exactly what they should have done. Wow. I'm seriously blown away that Microsoft actually did this. Very impressive.
Good enough for me.
i'm still not satisfied with these explanations. these excuses are to buy time and make microsoft look good. microsoft test update in lab > manufacture and chipmaker test their firmware > carrier test it on their network > users get update. they went thru at least 3 phases of testing and tell me none knows of the issue with samsung wp7? they were way behind schedule and have to rush the update so it wasn't properly test. NoGo was supposed to be out january. still NoShow.
akachay said:
i'm still not satisfied with these explanations. these excuses are to buy time and make microsoft look good. microsoft test update in lab > manufacture and chipmaker test their firmware > carrier test it on their network > users get update. they went thru at least 3 phases of testing and tell me none knows of the issue with samsung wp7? they were way behind schedule and have to rush the update so it wasn't properly test. NoGo was supposed to be out january. still NoShow.
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perhaps, but given your logic shouldn't the manufacturer (that being samsung) had picked it up when they were given the update and told MS about it before it hit a whole lot of samsung users? MS don't create the phones themselves (unlike Apple, which everyone seems to be comparing MS' update system to), so therefore the complexity of the updates in general are increased to a great magnitude with the additional layers that they need to help satisfy.
akachay said:
microsoft test(s) update in lab > manufacture(rs) and chipmaker(s) test their firmware > carrier(s) test it on their network(s) > users get update
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There's a step missing for a good test - between network testing and end users, a quick release to power user early adopters needs to happen.
These are people who ideally have the technical proficiency to help troubleshoot any issues encountered (in other words, they know how to file a bug report, and also how to follow troubleshooting instructions from MS).
Whiny *****es would of course be excluded.
MS used to have a system like this for their MSN software products (such as MSN messenger). I thought it worked really well as a participant, but then they ditched the program - IMHO they invited too many whiny non-technical people and just got sick of placating them.
I really don't think this addresses the issue. Tell me MS didn't know how this would work from the beginning?? If they did know, why did they advertise the system the way they did? They made frequent and aggressive updating as a main feature of WP7. Yet that "aggressive" updating is more like super timid updating.
Either MS didn't know what it was getting into, or they knew and are trying to blow smoke up our rears.
or they knew and are trying to blow smoke up our rears.
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*poots left over smoke out of his arse.
MartyLK said:
Either MS didn't know what it was getting into, or they knew and are trying to blow smoke up our rears.
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I would bet money it's the former.
They probably had meetings, layed it all out on spreadsheets, powerpoint presentations, etc. Had engineers give reports. Marketing specialists chime in on what's needed to win. And they thought it would go smooth as butter.
Ok.. time to give a fack with this guy..
So, was there anything we didn't already know?
The fact that MS had to push a pre update update is amusing, & the update was for every phone not just Samsung. Obviously MS never tested the update process before the launch of WP7. The Samsung issues show that MS & its OEM partners don't communicate well with each other. A good example of this is SD card support, if MS doesn't want it why is it there & how did Samsung get away with putting it in? Is MS not in charge of WP7 & the user experience, which a buggy SD card will impact?
Now, that said, I think it's worse than I thought.
So they need to adjust WP7 OS to every device out there, and with approval from carrier?
So, that means.. that this is almost exactly like Android. Or at least seems like Android. They are going to release tons of phones, and then, forget our humble phones.
Really, do you guys think MS is going to worry with an outdated smartphone? That don't even sell in stores anymore?
Crap ;/
After reading some of the comments posted there, it is clear that folks do not understand that the difference between Apple updates and Microsoft updates is that Apple controls the entire chain from nuts and bolts to software. They are updating ONE piece of hardware.
Microsoft is updating MANY DIFFERENT hardware types from many different manufacturers. Thus, 'issues' will occur.
With this PR blog post having 100+ replies with more than 90% of them being not positive, and Paul Thurrot's "Still No Update" post (which I'm assuming is what pushed MS to respond) having 150+ replies, maybe they'll finally start to "get it".
But I doubt it...
pbratton said:
After reading some of the comments posted there, it is clear that folks do not understand that the difference between Apple updates and Microsoft updates is that Apple controls the entire chain from nuts and bolts to software. They are updating ONE piece of hardware.
Microsoft is updating MANY DIFFERENT hardware types from many different manufacturers. Thus, 'issues' will occur.
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It seems you may not understand why the comparisons are valid. "Chassis 1" was suppose to be MS's answer to Apple so that they, like Apple, could update all phones at once.
Anything extra the OEMs add should be on them (ie. LG with DNLA) and MS should ONLY be responsible for updating the core OS. Acer, Asus, HP and Lenovo all update their own drivers while MS updates Windows. It should be the same exact process with WP7.
BTW, Apple is updating THREE pieces of hardware and many revisions of each. MS is updating ONE uniform OS AND they've been in the mobile OS business since 2003. They should have known how to run things by now.
pbratton said:
Microsoft is updating MANY DIFFERENT hardware types from many different manufacturers. Thus, 'issues' will occur.
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Also, it's not like MS has no experience here. They've rolled out updates to different hardware types before as part of the Zune updates that have happened occasionally (I think about twice a year, just like Xbox - autumn/spring) since launch.
So yeah, they have carriers in the mix now. That's really the only complexity added over the Zune updates that have been largely trouble-free.
I was thinking.. Mango is pretty damn good. Ok. Still, it could be better at some points.
Where?!
I hate to mention it, and I expect that you guys here at XDA don't throw rocks on me for trying to make WP7 better by taking some good examples of Android.
Android has a nice feature, independent system apps, that can be updated over the Market. Every app of the system can be update; even Market, through the air.
So they don't need to release a WHOLE update to correct a stupid and annoying bug.
Apple, by other hand, suffer with this. A single bug needs a complete system update. But now they do have over the air update, so that's less annoying.
Microsoft isn't the number one when it comes about update speed. So, why not take a Google example to make it better for us?
Microsoft could work in the system with less rush since they are already paying attention to the main apps, and updating them.
So, why not?!
Indeed, how long did we have to wait until MS corrects the camera settings not saved ?
We had to wait until Mango! Can you imagine. One full year.
Yeah, and this could be solved with one simple update. Internet Explorer 9 maybe updated before, through marketplace. Maps has some bugs, and I doubt it will be corrected until Tango.
So this is good to everyone.
I dont think the updates after mango there will takealot of time...
It was in a job description from MS (just 2 months a go) for the man in charge for the WP7 updates..
One big update every year and with minor updates in between....
So the update plan it will be like that: One big update/year and several small Bug Fixes/in between
arturobandini said:
Indeed, how long did we have to wait until MS corrects the camera settings not saved ?
We had to wait until Mango! Can you imagine. One full year.
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Thing is my one still does not save.
sorry but the system is capable of updating over the air , the ting is that MS isn't doing it
Why not?
Still, separate apps from the systems is an inteligent strategy. Keep it update despite of the carrier will and WP7 system's version.
arturobandini said:
Indeed, how long did we have to wait until MS corrects the camera settings not saved ?
We had to wait until Mango! Can you imagine. One full year.
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Microsoft themselves said this isn't a bug, it's a feature. People tend to forget that they leave funky effect settings on so they made them go back to default every time you launch the camera. Hate to break it to you.
Product F(RED) said:
Microsoft themselves said this isn't a bug, it's a feature. People tend to forget that they leave funky effect settings on so they made them go back to default every time you launch the camera. Hate to break it to you.
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But we should be able to CHOOSE how we want it to open. If I like solarize, lemme use this as default. It's not anyone's problem but mine.
Still, the mainly reason for the topic is not camera defaults, its how Microsoft could be do it even better with WP7.
There were 2 small updates after nodo and before mango for my HTC surround. I don't think Microsoft will wait a year for updates. But I also don't think they'll do one every 2nd Tuesday of the month like PC.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
karan1203 said:
There were 2 small updates after nodo and before mango for my HTC surround. I don't think Microsoft will wait a year for updates. But I also don't think they'll do one every 2nd Tuesday of the month like PC.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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It can't be even often than that, but what is more confortable to consumers? Going to pc to update, or just open the Marketplace and update?
mikeeam said:
It can't be even often than that, but what is more confortable to consumers? Going to pc to update, or just open the Marketplace and update?
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Obviously OTA updates are best and i'm sure Microsoft will follow with the same cloud marketing as Apple.
If wp7 has taught me anything it's that Microsoft is willing to wait to do something. But when they do decide to do it, they'll do it absolutely perfectly.
karan1203 said:
Obviously OTA updates are best and i'm sure Microsoft will follow with the same cloud marketing as Apple.
If wp7 has taught me anything it's that Microsoft is willing to wait to do something. But when they do decide to do it, they'll do it absolutely perfectly.
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Apple tends to do that.
Not the fastest way, since ANY improvement comes before a HUGE hype and a whole system update.
Microsoft has said time and time again that this is not the strategy they want. It's easier to update an app than an entire system, but the things you're talking about are part of the system, not apps. Android is app-centric. WP7 is system-centric. Not that they couldn't do it, but there is nothing blaringly broken in the system that needs immediate updating. I'm sure if there was, that it would be addressed immediately. Apple has put out little bug-fix updates quickly, and Microsoft would do the same.... if indeed, there were bugs that made the phone features unusable.
To those people still complaining about the Camera settings... seriously, we've heard it enough already. It's fixed in Mango. Let's go ahead and stop talking about it.
thesecondsfade said:
Microsoft has said time and time again that this is not the strategy they want. It's easier to update an app than an entire system, but the things you're talking about are part of the system, not apps. Android is app-centric. WP7 is system-centric. Not that they couldn't do it, but there is nothing blaringly broken in the system that needs immediate updating. I'm sure if there was, that it would be addressed immediately. Apple has put out little bug-fix updates quickly, and Microsoft would do the same.... if indeed, there were bugs that made the phone features unusable.
To those people still complaining about the Camera settings... seriously, we've heard it enough already. It's fixed in Mango. Let's go ahead and stop talking about it.
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Microsoft would never be so quick as Apple. Apple releases update as soon as they want. Microsoft is a carrier ***** and release when carriers want.
mikeeam said:
Microsoft would never be so quick as Apple. Apple releases update as soon as they want. Microsoft is a carrier ***** and release when carriers want.
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This may very well be the case but how then do you explain the 3 seperate system updates in 1 year from MS compared to the single O/S and bugfix bundle update per year from apple? It strikes me that MS will be quicker to respond to bugs or to issue official updates.
Regards,
Creamy
Its because Microsoft is willing to listen to their customers and provide the best and optimal way to make for a better customer experience. While apple doesn't care about their brainwashed sheep and will only do what the overlord Steve thanks is right.
Sent from my T8788 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
mikeeam said:
Microsoft would never be so quick as Apple. Apple releases update as soon as they want. Microsoft is a carrier ***** and release when carriers want.
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Yeash... I know I'm feeding the trolls here, but seriously... go buy an iPhone and stop posting at xda.
Someone at Redmond is not going to "read THIS!", and even if they did, they would laugh at how stupid this thread is. There have been a lot of individual updates from MS (on top of the NoDo and Pre-NoDo updates)... security updates, etc. Saying that they would not move quickly on a bug fix is just stupid.
creamy said:
This may very well be the case but how then do you explain the 3 seperate system updates in 1 year from MS compared to the single O/S and bugfix bundle update per year from apple? It strikes me that MS will be quicker to respond to bugs or to issue official updates.
Regards,
Creamy
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3 updates?
1 - Pre-NoDo
2 - NoDo
3 - Mango
Is this what are you counting?
Or maybe..
1 - NoDo
2 - Mango
3 - Tango
Well.. Pre-NoDo doesnt count at all. NoDo was just a correction from copy and paste. The only real update was Mango. That wasnt even announced to us. Oh yeah, you can just install it. But it was not released.
Tango.. dont even need to mention.
thesecondsfade said:
Yeash... I know I'm feeding the trolls here, but seriously... go buy an iPhone and stop posting at xda.
Someone at Redmond is not going to "read THIS!", and even if they did, they would laugh at how stupid this thread is. There have been a lot of individual updates from MS (on top of the NoDo and Pre-NoDo updates)... security updates, etc. Saying that they would not move quickly on a bug fix is just stupid.
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Dude, i'm not troll. I just want make my phone even better. I love WP7. And you are just oh so happy because you live in USA, which has no problems with marketplace, stupid translate errors, stupid dictionary error, and 2 years delay from MS.
Unfortunately, WP7 was not released here.
And WP7 is selling less than BadaOS, what is a shame. So yes, it can be better. And saying it doesnt make me a "troll".