Hi all. Been on xda for a bit and just want to point out some problems I've noticed and some possible improvements. These are mainly based upon my experience in the HTC Evo and Hero (sprint) forums.
1: With the ever expanding volume of new threads and posts, it's easy for things to slip through unnoticed. It's also just as difficult to find relevant information simply by browsing a forum or topic. While searching can help, it doesn't address the other aspects, such as browsing to find something new.
Possible, partial solution:
Reorganize the forums. More specificly, create more sub-forums to more closely resemble a tree structure. Start with one forum for each manufacturer plus one for xda. Then, under each manufacturer, there are sub-forums for each device. Then in turn it's divided by interest (general, q&a, dev, etc...). Next, divide those up in to more fine tuned sections, such as: HTC->Evo->Development->ROMS and HTC->Evo->Development->General Discussion and HTC->Evo->Development->Kernels and HTC->Evo->Development->Root Methods ... err, you get the point.
2: Too many old/out dated topics confusing newer members/visitors. First thing that comes to mind: old root methods. Of course no one wants to delete these once relevant topics, but at some point they should he moved to an "archive" section of the sub-forum or the information could be collected and condensed in to reference topics.
Hopefully these simple approaches can help make the forums a little easier to navigate, especially if you don't have anything specific to search for.
-SLS-
SouL Shadow said:
Hi all. Been on xda for a bit and just want to point out some problems I've noticed and some possible improvements. These are mainly based upon my experience in the HTC Evo and Hero (sprint) forums.
1: With the ever expanding volume of new threads and posts, it's easy for things to slip through unnoticed. It's also just as difficult to find relevant information simply by browsing a forum or topic. While searching can help, it doesn't address the other aspects, such as browsing to find something new.
Possible, partial solution:
Reorganize the forums. More specificly, create more sub-forums to more closely resemble a tree structure. Start with one forum for each manufacturer plus one for xda. Then, under each manufacturer, there are sub-forums for each device. Then in turn it's divided by interest (general, q&a, dev, etc...). Next, divide those up in to more fine tuned sections, such as: HTC->Evo->Development->ROMS and HTC->Evo->Development->General Discussion and HTC->Evo->Development->Kernels and HTC->Evo->Development->Root Methods ... err, you get the point.
2: Too many old/out dated topics confusing newer members/visitors. First thing that comes to mind: old root methods. Of course no one wants to delete these once relevant topics, but at some point they should he moved to an "archive" section of the sub-forum or the information could be collected and condensed in to reference topics.
Hopefully these simple approaches can help make the forums a little easier to navigate, especially if you don't have anything specific to search for.
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are technical limitations with having too deep a tree of nested fora.
Sorry if I rambled on. Just a thought. Personally it's frustrating trying to weed through hundreds of topics looking for the few that interest me, especially in the -dev forums. Try finding the few technical tidbits mixed in with hundreds of ROM topics!
Maybe, as a start, break out the ROMs from the -dev forums in to their own forum. In most cases they are less development and more end user packages anyway.
99% of the time I'm browsing via the xda app and it takes forever to browse loading 10 topics at a time.
-SLS-
Your issue is that the forum is full of users that don't comply to the rules and they're not feeling the banhammer. It's not so much about finding the right place its about low quality posts.
IMHO XDA needs to remove the rule that you can't post in dev threads until you've spamed some open forum 10 times, and start banning users that don't comply with the rules. It's a lot of work in the start, but once your users are trained it will be pretty mundane.
I follow the Xperia X8 forum myself, and in perticular [ROM] X8 | Sense | 2.1 | 2.2 | 2.3 | xRecovery [WiP]. The thread was moderated days ago, only to be instantly refilled with the same type of comments.
I'd like to post my own findings in those threads but I'm not gonna try and spam some forums just to get the 10 needed posts. I'll post my findings on other forums or in PM's until you manage to moderate properly.
oisteink said:
Your issue is that the forum is full of users that don't comply to the rules and they're not feeling the banhammer. It's not so much about finding the right place its about low quality posts.
IMHO XDA needs to remove the rule that you can't post in dev threads until you've spamed some open forum 10 times, and start banning users that don't comply with the rules. It's a lot of work in the start, but once your users are trained it will be pretty mundane.
I follow the Xperia X8 forum myself, and in perticular [ROM] X8 | Sense | 2.1 | 2.2 | 2.3 | xRecovery [WiP]. The thread was moderated days ago, only to be instantly refilled with the same type of comments.
I'd like to post my own findings in those threads but I'm not gonna try and spam some forums just to get the 10 needed posts. I'll post my findings on other forums or in PM's until you manage to moderate properly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As one of the more prolific banning mods here D) I think we do a fairly good job of dealing with what we are aware of.
The issue is what we're not aware of. There's well in excess of half a million threads on XDA. With new ones appearing constantly, and old ones being bumped from long ago, it is impossible to find the troublemakers.
The report post feature is your friend
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I hate flamers and trolls as much as you (if not more ). If you press this wonderful button, then it gives us a link to the thread, and makes sure we're aware of what's going on.
You are correct that it is QUALITY that is the issue. Any low quality posts (flames/trolls/spammers) that are reported will be sorted as soon as we can
Well, my problem is not with the quality of the posts, rather the sheer numbers. All I'd like to see is some further separation. Move the ROM threads to their own sub-forum to help expose the other non-rom development threads that get lost in the masses.
On a totally separate note:
Of course there will be sub-par posts, but that should be left to the thread originator (and possibly other designated moderators) to handle. Perhaps an IRC approach would work well. (ircops vs. chanops) You have your site moderators responsible for site wide issues. Then forum moderators to maintain each forum and it's sub-forums. Then thread moderators (thread owners and possibly other owner designated users) to maintain their individual thread.
There's never going to be a perfect solution, but with some level of separation, coupled with proper management and delegation of responsibility, then issues can be both minimized and dealt with more effectively. This approach would (should) also free up higher level moderators to deal with larger issues instead of micro-managing individual threads.
-SLS-
BTW, it's not my opinion that we need more moderation, but instead more fine grained control. Let the owners control their thread. Let the forum/sub-forum mods shape their forum and supervise the thread owners and intervene where and when needed. And let the site mods maintain the overall flow and well-being of the site.
-SLS-
SouL Shadow said:
Well, my problem is not with the quality of the posts, rather the sheer numbers. All I'd like to see is some further separation. Move the ROM threads to their own sub-forum to help expose the other non-rom development threads that get lost in the masses.
On a totally separate note:
Of course there will be sub-par posts, but that should be left to the thread originator (and possibly other designated moderators) to handle. Perhaps an IRC approach would work well. (ircops vs. chanops) You have your site moderators responsible for site wide issues. Then forum moderators to maintain each forum and it's sub-forums. Then thread moderators (thread owners and possibly other owner designated users) to maintain their individual thread.
There's never going to be a perfect solution, but with some level of separation, coupled with proper management and delegation of responsibility, then issues can be both minimized and dealt with more effectively. This approach would (should) also free up higher level moderators to deal with larger issues instead of micro-managing individual threads.
-SLS-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We already have that setup of forum moderators and site wide moderators. We have Forum Specific Moderators and Senior Moderators. Senior moderators are responsible for site wide moderation and Forum Specific Moderators act in their designated area. We adopted this approach last summer and in some senses it has been successful for keeping certain fora under control, but like all systems we have many areas to improve on.
i dont like the limitations! i would like to post on things i like and not have to post 10 times in the q&a section WTF i only read the posts i care about and would like to post on them
russnasty said:
i dont like the limitations! i would like to post on things i like and not have to post 10 times in the q&a section WTF i only read the posts i care about and would like to post on them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no offense but this is such a small requirement just post more. In fact it is easy to get 10 posts.
The restriction is just a way to get people to start thinking in terms of the forum, its protocol. This helps the community.
Related
During the past months I have noticed a tendency, or better: arrogance of older members. They sometimes treat "Juniors" like idiots or make unnecessary fun of them. This - even though it is really funny sometimes for the older guys - just makes it somehow unpleasant here.
We all habe been there, we all had to learn about our devices, so, what is the point? Juniors should be welcommed better than laught at - they might become the masters tomorrow!
- - -
Another tendency:
I sure know that almost anything in this forums has been discussed already in one thread or another. However, SENIORs, get real! If a new user asks a question, you should help him finding an answer / solution rather than just writing the "USE THE SEARCH" nonsense!
The integrated forum search is not the easiest on the market and it takes a while to get used to it. In addition, this forum is filled with thousands of topics - you sometimes can search and click through threads without finding anything in specific for hours! Sure, there is the attempt of having the WIKI but even this often does not cover it all! So, rather than posting the stupid "USE THE SEARCH", point the guy to the right topic / section / WIKI article - that would make more sense. LOL, just use the GOOGLE SEARCH in this forum and look for "Use the search" - amazing how many threads you find!
Don't get me wrong! I don't mean that we should animate JUNIORS to double-post or 'being lazy', but it is more helpful to guide him to the right topic if you want to help or - in case you just want to be a "smart-ass" - say nothing rather than "Use the search!"!
Well, just my opinion but it always looks a bit hostile to me if I see an old member posting "USE THE SEARCH" - in that aspect the old member is just not better than the junior, who might have been too lazy to perform a search in first place ...
this is my first post in 4 months.
titties.
etnies said:
this is my first post in 4 months.
titties.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, see, my post was good for something - at least you replied after 4 months of "shut up, be happy, stop whining"
I do agree with what youve said, but i dont think your going to change human nature.
Ive been guilty of giving slightly unhelpful comments to juniors, i suppose its just frustrating when someone is asking about something we find so simple.
Then again, we had to learn to...
I only discovered the search function not long ago, tis very helpful but i can see why its not used or noticed until youve been here for awhile.
TO be honest i hate the way this forum is set up.
You should all visit http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/
It has a lovely layout and is a pleasure to use. (Its an australian broadband forum)
true statement for the most part, but i find that noobs are exceited about joing the forum. they see all that they can do their new device and go nuts. instant gratification is today's society. this is the same on 99.9% of the forums out there. i know i was like that. i wanted my "modded" kaiser to do this and that, but i also didn't want a brick too. so at least i read and read and read some more. there's some users out there that don't want to read even the simple FAQ's and the WIKI. (i know i was one of those users too) i didn't read those threads until 2 weeks ago and i have been effin with my kaiser for 3 months
again titties? where?
Yeah, that WHIRLPOOL looks neat, however, I guess Igot too used to XDA-Developers.
I do believe that one of the main reasons is the amount of information collected in this forum during the years, and for sure the dayly grow of new devices and features on the market.
Maybe it would be an idea to rethink the XDA structure and set up 3 different forums, one for problems, one for software development and one for ROM Development and hacking ... but if I rethink it, well, I got used to it (almost) so, others will too if we help them rather than pointing them to the SEARCH ...
Junner2003 said:
Yeah, that WHIRLPOOL looks neat, however, I guess Igot too used to XDA-Developers.
I do believe that one of the main reasons is the amount of information collected in this forum during the years, and for sure the dayly grow of new devices and features on the market.
Maybe it would be an idea to rethink the XDA structure and set up 3 different forums, one for problems, one for software development and one for ROM Development and hacking ... but if I rethink it, well, I got used to it (almost) so, others will too if we help them rather than pointing them to the SEARCH ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lots of users are used to the layout and changing it would be a massive operation for the Site Admin. Also, we are limited by what V-Bulletin can do.
With regards to the behaviour of older members, I will not support or condone what they do, if they pass the line then the post should be reported to the moderators for further investigation.
Checkout this old post on Flaming: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=390475&highlight=Flame
And finally, there are some naked chicks in my signature (SFW) to check out.
Ta
Dave
Junner2003 said:
During the past months I have noticed a tendency, or better: arrogance of older members. They sometimes treat "Juniors" like idiots or make unnecessary fun of them. This - even though it is really funny sometimes for the older guys - just makes it somehow unpleasant here.
We all habe been there, we all had to learn about our devices, so, what is the point? Juniors should be welcommed better than laught at - they might become the masters tomorrow!
- - -
Another tendency:
I sure know that almost anything in this forums has been discussed already in one thread or another. However, SENIORs, get real! If a new user asks a question, you should help him finding an answer / solution rather than just writing the "USE THE SEARCH" nonsense!
The integrated forum search is not the easiest on the market and it takes a while to get used to it. In addition, this forum is filled with thousands of topics - you sometimes can search and click through threads without finding anything in specific for hours! Sure, there is the attempt of having the WIKI but even this often does not cover it all! So, rather than posting the stupid "USE THE SEARCH", point the guy to the right topic / section / WIKI article - that would make more sense. LOL, just use the GOOGLE SEARCH in this forum and look for "Use the search" - amazing how many threads you find!
Don't get me wrong! I don't mean that we should animate JUNIORS to double-post or 'being lazy', but it is more helpful to guide him to the right topic if you want to help or - in case you just want to be a "smart-ass" - say nothing rather than "Use the search!"!
Well, just my opinion but it always looks a bit hostile to me if I see an old member posting "USE THE SEARCH" - in that aspect the old member is just not better than the junior, who might have been too lazy to perform a search in first place ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, and the search engine of the forum is not the simpliest one
alijo said:
I agree, and the search engine of the forum is not the simpliest one
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
V-Bulletin search leaves a lot to be desired, but the google one pastes over the cracks pretty well.
Ta
Dave
i can't remember if i have just once used v-bulletin engine and got a hit...it's a real crap masterpiece...
but in the other hand...google does the trick
and we all got "use the search" so what...big deal..
most of the time on the forum i deal with juniors and i tend to give a precise noob answer so i don't mind them and their questions at all....but isn't it natural like food chain...
it may be wrong but it is as it is and few of us can't help or improve it no matter how we try
and there are even worse members than juniors.....those seniors who gained status on off-topics i think there is no need for that but if you want i can provide 2-3 names right now
well ... i think the common rule of 'minimum requirement' applies everywhere.
By the name of xda-developers implies that this is the developers site. I can see that the moderators and other senior members here did do attempts to reduce someone creating new thread for just asking "noobs" question, but new members just dont want to spend their time to do reading, reading and reading.
There is nothing really harm to do reading then do searching ....
No offense, just my thought ....
i want to mention a moderator and his wall of shame crap in the diamond section...it was very rude and not friendly
It is unappropiate for any member to flame, if you don't like a post either use the
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report button or ignore the thread.
Also, If you find a response from a (senior)member offensive feel free to
!
The problem with noob questions is that if allowed it would drown our already massive forum, searching would become even worse.
Next to that: it's often wise to read first and to know what you are doing before acting, a lot of noobs have bricked their devices because they didn't read!
So "read the stickies/wiki" or "use the search" is often GOOD and SOUND advice!
But by no means we condone flaming!
BTW we don't like to be called "older members", please use the term age-challenged-members
May I also post a link to one of the best posts ever to be written at XDA.
LINK TO BEST POST EVER
Says all I ever need to say. Developers and hackers working together to better their devices. Not a place for "check what I can do with my phone".
Kyphur said it best with this quote
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Often the old behave like juniors
P1Tater said:
May I also post a link to one of the best posts ever to be written at XDA.
LINK TO BEST POST EVER
Says all I ever need to say. Developers and hackers working together to better their devices. Not a place for "check what I can do with my phone".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that Kyphur said it best with that post.
That is the post i most often love to quote. The issue is always that we have two types of users, those who just LOVE technology and want to learn, and those who treat it like it is tech support, or a paid service. These two sides are always at odds with each other. It is very easy to get frustrated with new users who aren't interested in even taking the time to ask good questions. I have never once put down someone for asking a sincere question, or refused to spend much of my own free time teaching a new user how to do something, IF they were willing to learn. The phrase "i don't have time to read all this" is an automatic call for me to do nothing to help that person. If you don't have time to read and learn, then you shouldn't be be modding your device. It's just too risky if you don't know what you are doing. As for the search function, it is a learning process, but honestly if you know how to search the internet, then you should be a quick study on searching the forum. I love that you can search just the thread, just the forum, or the whole site. After learning the site, i have found it completely functional, and rarely do i waste time looking for answers.
I will say that the "respect all the members" rule is sadly neglected by many users on this forum, regardless of their standing. I try to encourage everyone who sees disrespectful activity to write well thought out replies, via PM or if necessary in the thread. Use the report post button more frequently so that the mods can step in when necessary. Finally, please remember this is an international forum, filled with many non-native english speakers, who may not always grasp the full meaning of what everyone is saying. Be patient, and be clear in what you are saying, because we all say things we shouldn't have and we all have misread or been misunderstood. Let's try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Of course, don't forget to have fun too
P1Tater is spot on.
No more discussion needed...!
etnies said:
this is my first post in 4 months.
kittens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2 months Your last post was from : 06-09-2008
I came here for the reported T!tt!3s.
No such luck.
I haven't seen really harsh "Use the Search Function" posts from Seniors.
I have seen some Touch Love Versions and have even seen some more "I will still answer your Question" posts by seniors.
In the end i think that most senior members are trying to encourage research.
As that is what the majority of people/developers/cooks are doing. Testing, changing Testing Changing and getting feedback from others testing and changing.
Adding a little advice or hint to the "Use The Search Function" , like over at this or that forum. Or "Try these Keywords", makes a post that can seem unfriendly (flat information has that weird quality to invoke an emotion behind it that does not exist), sound a bit more friendly.
But as soon as words as "Dumbass, idiot, Noob, grow up etc" are added to a Search referral post, it's pretty obvious that we should be reported, because that goes over the line.
Bottom line is that there will always be people who don't want to read a lot and that they would try to find an answer just by posting a question that already has been answered - human nature.
On the other hand there will be always seniors that sometimes would be harsh on noobs, again - human nature.
The balance: "use the search button" or "use google".
Well, I don't think it's harsh to say use search button because when I first came here I had to read more than 100 pages of Himalaya section and than another 100 in upgrading and Wiki. Thats a lot of reading but it helped a lot. Up to this day I never broke a device, I had more than 4 devices so I read a lot. But thats not it, reading through the posts I could see juniors posting questions that should not be posted and seniors posting answers that should not be postet. That made me think hard before I posted a question. Now I don't have a background in electronics or engineering but I made it just by reading.
So, I don't think that's harsh to say use the search button, anyway this is my two cents.
Cheers
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
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deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
1second, just let me get this right..
a user for just 4 months.. and he posts this as his first opinion about XDA, thats not good, thats not good at all
deathcipris said:
pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, someone needs to actually do something about this.. (hint, no? ok...)
ill bring this to the attention of Admins today for you dude, i think that he will find this post very interesting...
i think this is @ rule 2.3 but not sure if it would fall under that or trolling, anyway a rep of the dev is destroyed by these sort of snide remarks/name calling comments so i think you have a very good bloody point.. "It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are!".....
(oh wait, i remember where.. they are out banning the devs and their hard work for rule 9..)
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
raving_nanza said:
ps, 10 post rule is for bots, not noobs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr no it isnt. How do you work that out? lol
How in anyway would it stop or halt a bot?? And since when has bots been a issue specifically in dev forums??
@TheATHEiST oh well, i thought id read it somewhere.. must have been mistaken..
Rn
raving_nanza said:
...snip..
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I did. But I can be more direct if you please.
Moderators need your help. Which is why I asked for people to report problems they say. That being said, we are always evaluating forums to see if we need to allot more moderator resources to a particular forum. Again, we evaluate reported posts that come in to see if a forum is "getting out of hand." So it behooves you again to report posts. Also, you can contact the Administrators or the Moderators. And sometimes we do see with our own forum browsing that a forum needs help, but we can't be everywhere. We are constantly trying to improve XDA, and we always recommend your feedback.
FEEDBACK:
Admins know about this thread to show them OPs post.
The only reason i have picked up on this is because we are already speaking to the Admins about these issues, well.. something in relation to this issue.
i think it would be wise to place Forum Specific mods in the Android Rom Development.. for ALL devices, its the only way to stop this "trolling".
This kind of behaviour is not acceptable, its already got out of hand, and i aint even a Mod to know that - so who evers role it is to be in the Android forums, aint doing a good one
Rn
JimmyMcGee said:
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
doktornotor said:
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Yeah, thanks for proving my point. Not to mention - quite a couple of people have already confirmed on the original thread that it does discourage them pretty heavily - but of course sticking your head into the sand rocks here, so lets just lock the thread )
Once again:
- Go recruit more moderators (60/4,000,000 == absolute fail!)
- Once done - go and uncripple the report code, i.e. - go use the darned DB information you already have in some way. Yeah really, you already have the information who is your forum-specific moderator, so use it! Oh really, I do mean it, use it - do not force people to dig into some ultrastupid Google Docs document with moderators list (why on earth you cannot use HTML at least is a question in itself). I really do not have time for your "distinguish" games. Do make use of what you have to make the process efficient, not to make it suck like hell as you have done.
P.S. And - while looking @ my PM. We do NOT need some nonsensical Like/+1 buttons or any of that ridiculous social-networking bubble crap, really. Definitely not until you sort out the above and replace the search with something working that does not confuse people like hell and gives them relevant search results.
I agree, that having to PM a moderator several times a day is not ideal.
Personal Example: At least over in the EVO 4G development forums, you have several [Q] posted daily despite a sticky saying not to and update rules sticky saying not to do such. On top of that, you have the flaming, personal attacks, and other hostile users daily as well.
I know out of three mods, I've only ever received a response or acknowledge from one. And that one is the only one I've ever seen take action to a thread that gets reported by myself and others. I don't always expect a response, but it does add a bit of a personal connection.
It became so out of hand, that I just gave up and had my main developer account deleted and I moved my work else where.
Wow 60 mods. Hum a bit short there don't you think. A forum this size needs allot more than that, especially if the admin want it to be " the premiere android site'
sent from my bolt
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
abn75 said:
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair, I know the themes and mods you speak of and yes, I agree, not 100% user friendly. Sitting back on your laurels and letting it happen isn't the answer to seeing XDA becoming more productive, though.
At least if you report, you've done 'all you can' to help. Not much, but something
TheATHEiST said:
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and it is this attitude by the older members that gives the forum the reputation as not user friendly. Both noobs and experts alike could do better in that regard.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta disagree. Minor issues are not being dealt with at all on the forums I visit and quickly get out of control. Lost 2 devs in the last week due to it.
the_scotsman said:
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and controutman are 2 of the most active mods I've seen on xda. I don't know that I've even seen our general mod even post or address any issue. I think that might be the problem. Not to mention that only 1 mod in any forum means that 90% of the time, you have no mod.
juzz86 said:
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Completely disagree. I don't think this forum has grown that rapidly. It has been around since winmo smartphones. The focus has just shifted.
Now general forums are full of custom ROM related questions specific to one ROM (and usually not listed in the title). Maybe there needs to be a subsection of the dev section for questions related to specific ROMs. I've always thought that the most appropriate place for ROM related questions is that ROM. It just seems like the "experts" don't want to help the "noobs" out anymore. Yes it gets tiring answering the same question over and over again, but berating every new member for not being able to search a huge forum correctly is not the answer.
RoboCuz said:
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the problem. People that don't have your common sense will hit that 10 post limit so fast, it is not really a hinderance.
For instance:
"lol 10char" is such a common phrase these days, I think people are using ctrl "v" do paste it on every thread...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
nrfitchett4 said:
...snip...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree here, and this is something we have to deal with. I started on this Forum Back with WM6, so I've seen the change. And it definitely has caused a new user management learning curve. We are learning as we are going. It's not perfect, but we are not just sitting around doing nothing.
I wonder if I can solicit hard answers.
How many mods should we have?
How do we manage that many mods to ensure similar reactions from Mods?
How do we manage mods managers?
How do we implement this without having a large bureaucracy that slows down response time even more?
These are some of the questions we are dealing with. Believe me, I don't want anyone to thing we are ignoring their concerns, in fact many of us mods have the same concerns, but there are no easy answers. We are working through them Anyone is free to PM me with their concerns.
Also, you, as members of the forum are integral to the success of this site, if you see no action from your assigned Mod, please, let us know.
There is captcha and 10 post rule to prevent SPAM and stupidity.
Question is if this 10 post rule is harmful or useful?
Personally I find it harmful I and many, I think most people made first 10 stupid posts or just lurking because of this rule.
There is less feedback and more spam posts to get to 10 and more problem related personal messages spamming developers.
Posts "downloading it now" "testing" are meaningless and not punished.
Is it right way? Is there an alternative or chance to lower limit?
I'm on the same opinion.
I registered me here for giving a feedback to a rom developer and then i mentioned that i must make 10 posts to be able to answer in a developer area.
U've got it all wrong mates! Its a very good rule actually.
Read and see for yourself:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1069298
There is also a guide in it on how to best use this rule.
"To err is human, to forgive is divine"
Sent from my SGS II
Trust me, it's VERY useful. it might be a little bit of a chore for new users, but in the long term it helps mods and users.
before it was in place, the moderators spent so much of their time cleaning up spam bots or new members posting questions in the wrong (dev) forums. This meant less time was spent dealing with the real important issues.
With this 10 post limit in place, it has really reduced the amount of useless posts, giving mods more time to do what they're here to do
Well I'd like to present you this screenshot:
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
(link to the post and thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=40101315&postcount=137)
This user has just 2 posts and is able to post in the development section. I have seen this several times and I'd like to know how is it possible? I had to make 10 usefull posts to enter the development section and be able to give feedback to the developers..
Perhaps an idea for the admins here to check it out? I've seen this on several places..
mrjraider said:
Well I'd like to present you this screenshot:
(link to the post and thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=40101315&postcount=137)
This user has just 2 posts and is able to post in the development section. I have seen this several times and I'd like to know how is it possible? I had to make 10 usefull posts to enter the development section and be able to give feedback to the developers..
Perhaps an idea for the admins here to check it out? I've seen this on several places..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know for this particular case, but I have seen this several times before. I have noticed it happen when a user has decided to start doing 10-post spam just to get access to the Development forums. They have then posted in the Dev forum, after which time a Mod has deleted the spam posts they had previously made. This causes them to appear as posting in the Dev forums with less than 10 posts.
SimonTS said:
I don't know for this particular case, but I have seen this several times before. I have noticed it happen when a user has decided to start doing 10-post spam just to get access to the Development forums. They have then posted in the Dev forum, after which time a Mod has deleted the spam posts they had previously made. This causes them to appear as posting in the Dev forums with less than 10 posts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well it is strange. Since I also notice users who made an account on a date (lets say 14 april) get 1 post and be able to post in the development section. If they make 10 spam/useless post to get access to development. Perhaps an idea to delete the post(s) they made at the development?
About these posters, maybe their posts were deleted, but counter still works?
About me 10 posts rule kept me pissed off for 2 years.
Why would anyone feel that basically spamming in order to meet the 10-post limit is a good idea? What's wrong with posting as your first 10 posts meaningful and purposeful ones?
Here at XDA, we tend to think of ourselves as one big helpful community and making nonsense posts just to get what you want makes others feel like you're not serious about this site or what we're trying to do here.
Maybe 10 posts is too much...
10 posts is too much.
10 posts is not too much. Believe me that it can be done within an hour or so, just go to Q&A section and answer few questions. The problem is that some users posts just to say thanks or ask a question in the development thread, which shouldn't be a main goal.
This rule prevents spammers from posting in the development sections and makes our forum much cleaner
I joined this site knowing absolutely nothing about Android. Yet I was able to make ten legitimate posts the first day I joined. If you are so bewildered by Android that you cannot do that it's probably for the best you stay out of posting in the dev forums until you learn more - and it's in your own interest to learn more so you don't brick your device.
IMO, 10 is still less.. People in several threads are making unnecessary posts. I have seen many people who are just making threads / posts for just posting in Dev threads, which are really mean for Devs & there Co-originators.
This has been discussed at least a million times.
Thread reported.
No ones forcing anyone to be here.
Tbh this forum is A LOT more lenient than others I frequent.
If you really need to post that freakin bad go make a fb account!
Read , ask a question , read some more, ask another question, post a helpfull comment here and there... next thing ya know BAM!
Ten posts! :thumbup:
So many reasons but heres the real one:
"Dems da rules!!!!"
:beer:
cippa lippa said:
completely awful this rule...i want to post in one section because i have that smartphone for ex and i'm interested about that area...i can't!i have to write 10 posts...i wrote, i post on (for my example xperia p topics) that area, i helped one person and i shared my opinion with others to improve rom, or to say great job for example, they cancel my post because i think they thought it was spam...!why?it's non sense this rule, blocked just new users like me want to share informations...i don't care about spam, i work, i'm musician, violinist, i don't care to lose time spamming...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well for one, a few of your posts where 3 words and purely to boost your post count and secondly, one of your posts was made to advertise an app in a thread totally unrelated, hence it was deemed as spam and deleted
Also, as stated, if you do not like this rule you are free to leave, no one is forcing you to stay. We find the 10 post rule is a good measure to prevent spammers and also benefits the site with less clutter of useless posts and people asking repeated questions. All you have to do is help other by answering a few questions in Q&A forums/threads
cippa lippa said:
that's the fact, i'm interested to xperia p thread because other things i really don't know...how can i post to topics i don't know?
ANYWAY ok for some posts, three words (just because i wanted to post in xperia p thread) but you cancel post i helped one user, and post i shared informations very useful to other users! why? this is completely nonsense!
It's not a good phrase say "nobody force you to stay here" or "this is the rule, if you don't like go away", we are talking and share thinking, it's not very useful say that from you
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Guy, making ten helpful posts is not hard, all it takes is a little research and effort.
Sent from the phalanges of my hand to the facet of your cranium.
yes this is stupid. you can have lots of experiances about android but you must write 10 stupid answers/questions
sorry for my bad english
Sent from my Xperia Sola using xda app-developers app
amnesia82 said:
Maybe 10 posts is too much...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello and welcome to the India Specific forums,
Before clicking the "New Thread" or "Post Reply" buttons, please take the time to read some rules / guidelines for posting in this forum:
1) Read and follow the Forum Rules:
Plain and simple. No further explanation needed
2) Post your message in the proper subforum (see above):
All threads for Questions, Requests, and Help & Troubleshooting needs, go in the Q&A Help & Troubleshooting sub-forum, (if one exists for your device), and any misplaced threads will be promptly moved to their correct location. Users that continually post in the wrong forum will be addressed accordingly. If you're unsure of where your post or thread belongs, please read the Forum Rules again.
3) No Off-Topic threads allowed:
While some moderator teams may allow the creation of Off-Topic threads, within these forums it is not permitted. There is an entire General Off-Topic forum devoted to this type of discussion and there are enough threads already available to meet anyone's off-topic needs. All Off-Topic threads will be deleted promptly and without warning. Users who continually create these type of threads will be addressed accordingly. A certain amount of Off-Topic discussion is permitted in other threads within these forums and will generally be allowed at the discretion of the thread creator (OP). If you're concerned with the amount of off-topic discussion and misplaced questions in the Development forums, please consider making a Q&A Thread for your ROM / Kernel / Project / etc.
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These threads / posts will be deleted promptly and without warning. They have a history of causing problems due to trolls, fanboys and various troublemakers, and are therefore no longer allowed. Regardless of this reasoning, there is really no way to judge whether or not a particular piece of work is better than another because it's all relative to begin with. If you want to know what piece of work is better for you, install something and try it out for yourself. If you don't like it, try something else. Our Developers work hard to provide us their contributions, free of charge. Please show them the respect they deserve by trying something out and giving them your Feedback.
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6) Keep your signatures at a respectable size:
While members are given a great deal of freedom in creating personalized signatures, it is expected that this freedom is not abused. Abnormally large signatures are obnoxious to most users and they tend to be a major distraction from the topic at hand. If your signature is double the size of an average post or larger, you can expect to be asked to change it. If you're not sure whether the size of your signature is within respectable limits, feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum and ask for clarification.
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If there are any questions or concerns regarding this or any other matter, please feel free to contact a member of the Moderation Team that is assigned to this forum.
You can find a list of the assigned Moderators at the top of each sub-forum page.
With that, here are a few great threads to help you get the most out of your experience here... Please take advantage of them:
Get the most out of XDA!!
How to make a good THREAD, POST, QUESTION or POLL
Why you get short/one word answers! (The Long Answer)
How to give constructive feedback to developers
How To Logcat
GPLv2 tips for developers
Getting a moderator's help
And as always...
Thank you, and enjoy your time on XDA
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