Develop Bugs

LOOK HERE WM7 photon build for hermes

Im sure that got your attention...
There seems to be some recent issues with the massive amounts of new members that just learned how to type but dont know how to read or click the search button located in the upper right corner of your screen...
Now look, enough is enough, if your not going to read, or search, or post things in the proper threads then dont ***** when your being flamed... This forum has very simple rules and i used to think they werent hard to follow...
some of you will say, "The search button doesnt work, just brings up a bunch of junk and i have to sift through useless threads and cant find what i am looking for".... anyone wanna guess why?!? its because of the people that post without reading, its becoming a cluttered mess and a few noob's short of xda-developers.howardsforums.com
So some suggestions before you post:
Search
Read the f*cking wiki
Make your posting it in the right thread
If you have to start a new topic then make sure you include very detailed information if you want help, otherwise you will be ignored
If you like a rom then dont waste thread space by telling the creator how much you like the rom, update your signature and proudly display what rom you are using, or donate some $ to XDA, or to the creator(s)
Be smart and the other members will play nice
Oh one other thing to the frequent senior members (or the ones that dont post useless ****)
Instead of flaming on the noob's(which i know is fun ) could we just ignore them instead? im shooting for a less hostile enviroment.
p.s. any useless replies to this topic could be subject to edit

my new hero
dude you are so my new hero

A heuristic noob post filter would be nice, automatically diverting such posts to the New Beginners Forum called /dev/null . . . or "Recycle Bin" for you Windows guys

Yes, lately there have been a huge number of new members, and yes, the noob questions are sometimes annoying.
But to
3) Flame the crap out of them
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is in my opinion not the right way to react.
Some more or less senior members have tried that in the last few weeks, and it didn't work - there are still as many noob posts as there were before.
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel

tadzio said:
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel
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I totally agree with you, moderators or seniors should never use such language, no matter hoe right they are.
Shogunmark and some other "seniors", you should be ashamed of yourself...

pietrucci said:
I totally agree with you, moderators or seniors should never use such language, no matter hoe right they are.
Shogunmark and some other "seniors", you should be ashamed of yourself...
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Just to clarify: my comment wasn't directed towards shogunmark. In the first post of this thread, he also asks senior members to stop flaming noobs.

that might not be in a proper place to say , i may sound noob .
but i have a suggestion , why don't you make a spam bot like some forums do .
that spam bot detects autimatically any posts by the same user if they are close in time of posting ,
example : user named Noob posted 4 threads with the same exact content in less than 10 minutes .
"hi i'm noob and i don't know **** in this forum and i'm having fun ."
so the spam bot detect this noob posts and informs the moderators of it .
i hope it might help .
WBR

shogunmark said:
some of you will say, "The search button doesnt work, just brings up a bunch of junk and i have to sift through useless threads and cant find what i am looking for".... anyone wanna guess why?!? its because of the people that post without reading, its becoming a cluttered mess and a few noob's short of xda-developers.howardsforums.com
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Click to collapse
in point of fact, the search button is "useless" because it defaults to the "show thread" mode in displaying query results. the "show thread" search result display mode presents only the topic ("thread / thread starter") under which the relevant result was posted (and thus only the ability to click into the thread from the first post). the response to any given query is therefore a list of top-level post titles (topics) which may or may not have relevance to the more deeply-nestled posts that the search engine has deemed pertinent to the user's inputted keywords/constraints. this is exacerbated by the default forum settings, which yield in excess of 50 display pages for many threads-- a condition that becomes all the more likely when a thread generates a lot of traffic/discourse (i.e.; when a thread might likely contain a worthwhile and relevant search result).
i find search results displayed in this fashion to be utterly useless. if i'm looking for an answer to question A, which was raised under topic X three weeks and 400 posts after the thread began, i'll never find it. i'd probably then start a new thread with just that already-answered question as it's topic-- certainly and evidently to the chagrin of moderators forum-wide, but within their power to remedy.
incidentally, what if any advantage is there to the default display method? i may be showing some naivete here, but i've never found it at all useful (quite the contrary); i use the forum's search engine only and precisely in those cases where my brain's proprietary search agency has failed-- that is, *because* no thread topic seems applicable to my question, i pose it to the engine, and on its default setting, it responds by reiterating the top-level subjects i've already discarded.
that is the very definition of uselessness in search results, the blame for which, i think, does not lay with new users as you claim, but with a (seemingly?) foolish server setting.
shogunmark said:
Instead of flaming on the noob's(which i know is fun ) could we just ignore them instead? im shooting for a less hostile enviroment.
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it's never the new users who are hostile, though, is it? in fact, they're usually overly obsequious, probably owing to the fact that every time in the past that they've asked a question of one of the hallowed mobile-device-forum moderators, they've been made to feel stupid for lacking experience enough to solve their own problem. systematic ignorance of any one sector of the mobile device community would conspicuously diminish the broad appeal and utility of xda-developers amazing wealth of techknowledge.

Simple. When people register - send them an email that explains some of the forum do's and don'ts and how to search for individual posts.

I never meant for this to spark such a debate,
the point i wanted to make was this is a "technical development forum" and should be treated as such
if the situation spirals into too much garbage then the people who actually contribute to this community might give up due to frustration that could have otherwise been avoided.
i much prefer to be a forum troll rather than a post count hungry noise creator.
But at the moment even being a reader not poster sucks
/rant

endipott said:
in point of fact, the search button is "useless" because it defaults to the "show thread" mode in displaying query results. the "show thread" search result display mode presents only the topic ("thread / thread starter") under which the relevant result was posted (and thus only the ability to click into the thread from the first post). the response to any given query is therefore a list of top-level post titles (topics) which may or may not have relevance to the more deeply-nestled posts that the search engine has deemed pertinent to the user's inputted keywords/constraints. this is exacerbated by the default forum settings, which yield in excess of 50 display pages for many threads-- a condition that becomes all the more likely when a thread generates a lot of traffic/discourse (i.e.; when a thread might likely contain a worthwhile and relevant search result).
i find search results displayed in this fashion to be utterly useless. if i'm looking for an answer to question A, which was raised under topic X three weeks and 400 posts after the thread began, i'll never find it. i'd probably then start a new thread with just that already-answered question as it's topic-- certainly and evidently to the chagrin of moderators forum-wide, but within their power to remedy.
Blah blah blah
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Have you never seen the link for "SEARCH THIS THREAD"? its not hard.
I want to know, mmm, which SPL to use, i get a myriad of search results, some CLEARLY from the headers useful.
However, i've searched something a little more ambigeuos, i find and open what i feel are relevant threads, then search them. The 5 mins it takes to do that search will 99.9% of the time result in an answer, and take them less time than waiting for someone to answer.
Currently there are a massive amoun tof new idiots on the forums. Im fairly new myself, but i read the Wiki, read most of the current threads and searched before i asked for something. Its not hard.
Personally i think the forum needs for stronger moderation, in that users are given a three strike rule. Post utter rubbish without searchinig three times, and they become banned.
Clearly anyone not capable of the simplest of forum ettiqette doesnt belong here and will never really contribute anything.

tadzio
you dont have to be politically correct, you can name me as being a senior member who uses foul language. the fact of the matter is i dont give a crap!. i have to deal with hundreds of PM's per day asking the darn same thing and its getting frikken annoying.
i think from this point forward i will hold off on new builds of wm6 till this forum gets sorted.
One thing you have to realise, these noobs who ask the same darn thing over and over again are mostly (not all) here NOT to contribute to the vast pool of knowledge, they are here to frikken leach, then if something dont work for them they frikken complain, *****, winge, and post numerious threads and posts.
I am not ashamed of myself because i dont give a ****.... i think i got the right to use foul language when enough is enough.,
my ****en 2cents worth!
anybody doest like what i am saying can go **** themselves and use wm5! Welcome to the Land Down Under ****wits!
tadzio said:
Yes, lately there have been a huge number of new members, and yes, the noob questions are sometimes annoying.
But to
is in my opinion not the right way to react.
Some more or less senior members have tried that in the last few weeks, and it didn't work - there are still as many noob posts as there were before.
But that approach definitely changed this place - from being a friendly and helpful forum to a hostile place full of foul language and an arrogance from some "senior" members who seem to think newcomers are inferior human beings. You know, there are areas where the Wiki has outdated or incomplete information, so "Read The F*ing Wiki" is not always the appropriate answer.
And even in cases where it is, insulting people like it has become standard here by a few "senior" members is extremely rude, and for me is not an acceptable way of communication.
Thanks for listening,
Daniel
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Click to collapse

Tadzio,
the wiki might be outdated with some information but not the basic! which is the answers to 90% of the questions asked! Im with Jaz in that they are here for one thing and thats to leech and leave, if there is a problem then ***** and whinge... i thought this was 'xda-developers' not 'xda-noobs', i have some patience for noobs for resonable questions but when they download a ROM and cannot be bothered to read the 'How To' and where to post sections enough is enough... its hard enough for us Cookers to keep track of real bugs and issues enough without sifting through useless threads about crap.
i came here for one thing to broaden my knowledge of PDA's and Windows Mobile and i have learnt so much from this site, because i read and read before posting.
I am not ashamed of the way i speak to ppl who dont take the time to read the pages that we write to help benefit the noobs in the first place.
my ****n two cents!

tadzio said:
Just to clarify: my comment wasn't directed towards shogunmark. In the first post of this thread, he also asks senior members to stop flaming noobs.
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This was so funny ...
Oops, sorry but I really couldn't help it.
Mr Tadzio just means well. You can see he does not want to offend anyone as you can see from his immediate note.
I'm also a newbie, as you can see from the amount of my posts, but I really really really try to search and read everything you guys post. It is a difficult task, though, to encourage everyone to read, read and read and then ask questions later but I guess nothing comes easy.
I also like the 'heuristic programming' to block noobs from posting. Hilarious. Like, you can create key phrases like 'how do you hard-reset' or 'where are the office applications' and just block them from posting. haha

jasjamming said:
Welcome to the Land Down Under ****wits!
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That must be from the live version of the Men At Work song...

junior my self
I agree with the senior members, Mods, as a junior I flashed my universal countless of times without asking too much questions on the board it just took time reading through the wiki and sometimes reading through the posts relating to topics you want your question to be answered.
Having bought my new MDA Vario II it took me one week reading through the wiki, forums almost everything topic relating to Upgrading my device and the risks involved, since my first flash i havent encounter any bad flash of sort.
I read through the posts every hour and sometimes, I get irritated of the questions been asked repeatedly, so in terms of the senior members, Rom Cookers devoting thier own time giving us thier great work to share and let our devices look and feel as if it couldnt be better the least we do is just read, think and just before posting just think ( Is this question been mentioned before?)
I think the Mods,senior members should introduce some sort of membership before registering to new or to make it fair even existing members as to lessen new members who just want to come and go when they find what they want and also this would incorporate fundings towards XDA DEVELOPERS,
jUST MY 5CENTS

where can I download photon....
Eh?

.... seriously though... I used to have problems with the search function - hadnt taken the time to use the "show posts" option rather than the "show threads". Once I'd made the switch.. easy street...

mxlaser said:
Have you never seen the link for "SEARCH THIS THREAD"? its not hard.
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yes, we'll i spent about a year on the site thinking i couldn't use the search function at all because of the issue discussed above, only to recently discover the "search posts" option. you've just blown my mind with that "search thread." maybe now i'll be able to enable the internal gps on the hermes or successfully cook a simple damn ext_rom. ok, so i really missed the boat on the search functionality, but this illuminates the apparently widespread issue of search confusion, no? there is no treatment on queries in the wiki of any kind, aimed either at beginners or SQL engineers. i'm really rather technologically adept (notwithstanding present evidence to the contrary) and for whatever reason, i, too, managed to miss those functions. now, granted, in two years this is the first discussion i've been involved in, so obviously i worked silently through that very newbish failure to read the whole page without disturbing any other community members, but we can't expect all people who find themselves in the possession of a PPC to be able to immediately comprehend all that's needed in order for them to even begin to practically consider messing with the device.
unwired's point here is "simple," (as advertised) but really kind of elegant. i'd maybe extend it thus: perhaps someone (i clearly am not qualified, having missed that button which would have saved me many fruitless google domain searches) should draft a wiki treatment of the query interface. perhaps another could take up general forum ettiquette. mxlaser, maybe you could take up an introduction to SPL. make each section efficient and accurate, and call it the "new member welcome package." update the FAQ. do these things, and then you have a right to "flame" users who abrogate those then explicitly-posted regulations.
ultimately, the only way to ensure that threads stay on topic and avoid duplication is to heavily moderate. intrusive measures like probationary no-posting periods for new users run counter to the underlying concept of this type of web forum. i don't know how any system of regulations would or could work, but moderators should at least be deleting off-topic posts, and removing those other posts, too. you know the ones, where established users get all angry at a newbie for something or other and wax profane about how that newbie might better spend his time? yeah, well, those just waste more of everyone else's. if someone wants to give me privileges, i'd take on the challenge of cleaning up a little corner of the xda universe.
just as long as we're all on about the moderators, i think we should remember something my grandpa used to say: "everything in moderation, including moderation..."
oh also quickly:
mxlaser said:
Clearly anyone not capable of the simplest of forum ettiqette doesnt belong here and will never really contribute anything.
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in which canon of bulletin-board etiquette did you read that it was acceptable to intentionally misquote the person to whom you are responding? ["blah blah blah"] that seems to me to be a pretty simple, basic, fundamental requirement of discussion forums in general, i.e.: respect the written record... it looks as if you're behind in the count; you'd better protect the plate...

Can the board software be modded to set search posts as default?

Not my idea of a community

"Welcome to xda-developers
...the largest Internet community of smartphone enthusiasts and developers for the Android and Windows Mobile platforms. Visit the world famous XDA Forums or continue to browse our portal."
The above is copied directly from the xda home page. There are several words in there that misled me. "Welcome", "community", and "enthusiasts". I took those words to mean that any and all comments and questions would be welcome and answered by those who had more information than the "noobs" of which I am one. Unfortunately, I have found that not to be the case. I have posted several questions and the only answer I have gotten was less than friendly. I'm aware that IF anyone reads this, it will be dismissed as whining, or possibly removed by the xda people. I have read lots of unfriendly replies to questions by people who are trying to learn about their phones, whether it's basic features or more advanced development. Apparently, the people who know how to root, flash ROMs, overclock, and so on, have either forgotten or don't care that at one time, they didn't know anything either. Some of them probably figured it out for themselves, and some of them got help from others. But now that they are no longer noobs, they are condescending and sometimes downright rude to the new noobs. I was hoping to learn some things, possibly make some connections, and share the things I learn with the people who are just starting out. It looks like I'm going to have to figure this stuff out on my own. When I do, rather than be rude and dismissive, I will make every effort to help others and share what I've learned. But it will have to be somewhere other than xda because that doesn't happen much around here.

I totaly disagree.
1st .I did check all your seven posts and in none of them ive found any rude comment.
2nd . I was able to search for your posts title subject and ive found many other threads open, my suggestion for been not ignored is to use the opened threads instead to open a new one.
3rd. XDA is the share knowledge place, you will not find another forum like this,many people share everything all the days,there is not a magic button that say "lemme learn" ,just take the time to search,read 1st post( they always have the answers),read the other people comments and you will be able to do what you need............this is only what we have done from the begin

I appreciate your reply. The main reason you didn't find any rude responses is because there were no responses period. I'm not trying to find a magic "lemme learn" button but what good is it to post questions if nobody answers? I searched the threads before I posted and didn't find the answer to my question. By the way, if you searched all my posts, did you answer any of them?

moonpiedave said:
I appreciate your reply. The main reason you didn't find any rude responses is because there were no responses period. I'm not trying to find a magic "lemme learn" button but what good is it to post questions if nobody answers? I searched the threads before I posted and didn't find the answer to my question. By the way, if you searched all my posts, did you answer any of them?
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Looks like you posted your questions in Q&A global.
Try posting in general or Q&A for your device itself. Very few people post in general Q&A, but you should get an answer in the device area.
Remember though that your post won't be guaranteed to get an immediate reply, and nobody is obliged to answer anything.
Searching here might help, as will reading all the stickies in the device forum.
Also remember not everyone doesn't have the device you have, so bear that in mind given where you posted.
I'm not gonna beat about the bush here...
By the way, if you searched all my posts, did you answer any of them?
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does seem a bit rude to me, being perfectly frank. Remember XDA covers many dozens of devices, and most people only know 1 or 2 that they own.
Most people get "flamed" for posting in the wrong forum. Don't post questions in development, of any shape or form. Development is for those making or developing ROMs. If you stick to this, and post in your device's Q&A or general forum, you might have more luck.

FWIW you don't really sound like someone who wants to join a community, you just sound like some dude who wants someone to help them. Which is ok, but sometimes you have to be patient.

moonpiedave said:
I can't be bothered to learn about the community or where to even post, But I expect everyone to jump to and respond to my questions, or I'll accuse everyone of being rude, Cause everyone should immediately drop what they are doing and respond to my problems that I admit I know the answer to IN MY OWN POST. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=844908 (halfway through when I say that I got my answer already on cyanogen) Can I get some cheese with my whine please?
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You answer yor own question and then have a meltdown over no one answering you? go get help.

We have a saying on my country:
"cada quien habla de como le va en la feria"
Means that each person speaks about their own personal experience, which in all cases is not same as anybody else.
I have found an immense great friendly community here @XDA, yes! we are both talking about the same place!, I´m sorry to hear your bad experience here on your very short life.
As in any country, class room, world, group you´ll find nice and not nice members, you just have to select with which ones you have stuff in common and fell ok with them and avoid does who not.
I invite you to be an active long time member and I am sure with some time your thinking will change
Hope to have this conversation in a couple of years and both laughing about this thread

orb3000 said:
We have a saying on my country:
"cada quien habla de como le va en la feria"
Means that each person speaks about their own personal experience, which in all cases is not same as anybody else.
I have found an immense great friendly community here @XDA, yes! we are both talking about the same place!, I´m sorry to hear your bad experience here on your very short life.
As in any country, class room, world, group you´ll find nice and not nice members, you just have to select with which ones you have stuff in common and fell ok with them and avoid does who not.
I invite you to be an active long time member and I am sure with some time your thinking will change
Hope to have this conversation in a couple of years and both laughing about this thread
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Click to collapse
Well put Orb

For me, the only negative about being here has been the scamming and fraudulent stuff going on within the Marketplace

qipengart said:
For me, the only negative about being here has been the scamming and fraudulent stuff going on within the Marketplace
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That's true, but the community itself cannot be judged on the basis of these jerks.
I haven't been here for that long and people have treated me with respect. I'm no noob to this stuff, but I can say that there are a lot of things I don't know. Even in the ROM threads with hundreds (sometimes thousands) of pages of rapid-fire posting, I still have people answer my question without calling me a "noob" or "newfag".
I'm a moderator on another fairly [but not THIS] large forum and, while I like to think that we are another go-to site for what we deal with, it's not as respectful or decent as XDA is. Senior members always flame new members, even if they answer their questions. Here, there a TON of active members whereas on other forums people join then leave out of frustration because everyone wants to be a jerk.
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I treat everyone here with respect, and I'm sure many other members do to, Although if they are being talked to in a rude fashion I'm sure they won't be happy to respond. If you find a reply which is in anyway offensive or rude, perhaps use the report button.

Guyz..He'z a newbie over here...Let him spend some time,become a senior member and then ask him to return here...I am sure the perspective with which he views at XDA now will change after he spends a considerable amount of time...Its all about experience and respect...Give respect,take respect..And remember,Read Forum Rules!!!Trying to give rules a priority

moonpiedave said:
I appreciate your reply. The main reason you didn't find any rude responses is because there were no responses period. I'm not trying to find a magic "lemme learn" button but what good is it to post questions if nobody answers? I searched the threads before I posted and didn't find the answer to my question. By the way, if you searched all my posts, did you answer any of them?
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Click to collapse
It's the same deal on most forums... Users are expected to search for threads relating to their questions. If someone creates an account and is too lazy to search and read a lot, i puts people off... Why? Because there are already probably 5 threads covering every subject you could think of. It really clutters up the forum and makes it harder to find legit answers when you are searching for one.
I'm not saying that there aren't dicks on this forum, because I'm sure there are, but I haven't really run across anyone that was over the line... I mean, this is the internet where anyone can be a bad ass. I've seen way worse on other forums. Check out some of the iphone forums and you will see lots of ****ty replies.
If you get a reply, "Use the search" they aren't really being a ****. They are trying to keep the forums clean.
Bottom line, don't sweat it, this is the internet. One thing to learn about forums on the web is that you can't actually get pissed at someone on the internet. They don't know you and you don't know them. It's a completely different experience than the real world. Just be happy there is a resource like XDA on the web to help you nerd out on your sweet phone. And read a lot, because the information is probably already here.
Once you have done your reading and you still haven't found your issue, then post. No one is going to call you out if the answer isn't on this forum... And if by chance you missed a thread and someone does, let them know you read and didn't find it, then brush it off.
In regards to not getting answers to your questions, well, it happens. Everyone doesn't have time to answer everyone's inquiries, so you have to be real patient. It also doesn't hurt to do a google search because XDA isn't the only place on the web to find answers.
It also helps to post in the correct forum. Best way to do this is to find your phone in the search at the top and then search the forum specific to your phone. That's where people that know about your phone reside and where you will most likely get a reply.

qipengart said:
For me, the only negative about being here has been the scamming and fraudulent stuff going on within the Marketplace
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Woah.. really? Example please for future reference... I hope I haven't ran into any of that

Product F(RED) said:
That's true, but the community itself cannot be judged on the basis of these jerks.
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Come and get it.
People are quite polite here, but thee is one thing. World hates to answer already answered questions. Sometimes we see 3-4 people asking the same question. You know, we answer once, twice... on the third time someone says "Use search " or something like that.
Good idea is to scout the forum for 3-4 days, to see what is going on, what has been already done and what is certainly not being mentioned. And yes, search is your friend.

I have been here a while (though with not many posts under my belt) and I do not really see many rude posts nor a anti-noob atmosphere.
I hate to admit that this, but I take more from XDA than I leave.
Dan

moonpiedave said:
"Welcome to xda-developers
...the largest Internet community of smartphone enthusiasts and developers for the Android and Windows Mobile platforms. Visit the world famous XDA Forums or continue to browse our portal."
The above is copied directly from the xda home page. There are several words in there that misled me. "Welcome", "community", and "enthusiasts". I took those words to mean that any and all comments and questions would be welcome and answered by those who had more information than the "noobs" of which I am one. Unfortunately, I have found that not to be the case. I have posted several questions and the only answer I have gotten was less than friendly. I'm aware that IF anyone reads this, it will be dismissed as whining, or possibly removed by the xda people. I have read lots of unfriendly replies to questions by people who are trying to learn about their phones, whether it's basic features or more advanced development. Apparently, the people who know how to root, flash ROMs, overclock, and so on, have either forgotten or don't care that at one time, they didn't know anything either. Some of them probably figured it out for themselves, and some of them got help from others. But now that they are no longer noobs, they are condescending and sometimes downright rude to the new noobs. I was hoping to learn some things, possibly make some connections, and share the things I learn with the people who are just starting out. It looks like I'm going to have to figure this stuff out on my own. When I do, rather than be rude and dismissive, I will make every effort to help others and share what I've learned. But it will have to be somewhere other than xda because that doesn't happen much around here.
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It is just funny that somebody would come in here and say this with just 8 posts. Also, his first post was on Nov 15th and then he posted the above on Nov 19th so he had a total of 5 days of XDA and he is bashing it??? Not cool.

OP around and online but not a single reply from him...

I have received help here at XDA, cannot compare to any other forums that I know of. You need to go to the right places and read stickies and google before you ask, that's how I don't look like a noob... my secret is out, darn!

Growing animosity in the HD2 forums

Let me start by saying that this is just a moan thread, and I don't ask or expect that anything comes from it other than me getting something off my chest and seeing what others think.
I'm a very regular reader and contributor in the HD2 forum, as I have been for over a year now. I like the fact that it's such a busy forum as this obviously means we have a larger resource pool and get answers to issues a lot quicker than a more sparsely populated forum. There is, however, a down-side to this as well. More people does mean more help, but it also means more idiots.
Unfortunately, there's a growing gang of members in the HD2 forum that seem to thrive on posts such as...
"Search for the answer, *****"
or...
"Are you a total retard?"
Now I know that some people ask what a lot of us feel are dumb questions, and a LOT of people are guilty of posting questions without searching thoroughly first, therefore repeating threads, but it seems to be becoming a sport to deal with them with stronger and stronger animosity.
I personally have been guilty of posting "This is the wrong forum" or "This has been answered - please search", but the recent number of similar posts has made me rethink the situation.
First of all, just insulting someone is point-blank out-of-order, and I usually tend to report such posts and hope the mods agree and deal with the individual in question. So that's that done. Now we're left with the "already answered" posts.
This is all hypothetical, so don't do the following search and tell me I was wrong, okay
Say I searched for "bluetooth android not working" and didn't find anything that suited my situation and decided to open a thread. I start one called "bluetooth android not working" and explain my problem. UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answer like a million times. Use the search function"
Now let's go 2 weeks into the future when someone else has the exact same problem. They type into the search "bluetooth android not working" and they find my thread. "Great!" they think, till they read the thread. It's of no use to them whatsoever. So they start a new thread. Guess what - UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answered a million times! I'm getting sick of telling people to search!!!"
This happens every 2 weeks, with different users having the same problems and not finding a solution, therefore posting a new thread.
Okay. Here I have to say that none of the above users searched well enough - that is a valid point, and cannot be changed. By the time they start a new thread it's too late to simply tell them this.
But now, 6 months down the line, we have 12 threads that are titled "bluetooth android not working", and not one of them has an actual answer in it. By this point, the forum is becoming pretty pointless.
All it would take is for Mr.Genius-at-searching UserXXX to have searched, as he claims is easy to do, find a link and then post whatever he wants, with the link at the end of it...
"Here's a link, you **** tard. Learn to search. I can do it, so I have the right to tell you to do it. Want proof I can search? Here it is...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/noonardfoundananswer.php"
Basically, people giving it "do a search if you want answers" should help out new users in doing so. Do a search and maybe tell them what your search criteria was. Maybe they didn't know what NAND was when they were asking about flashing Android to replace WM6.5. Maybe they misspelt "blootueth". They need help, not an arrogant waste of space that generates just as much garbage post in the forum, but with an added side-dish of anger.
Finally, I know that we shouldn't spoon-feed people, as they will never learn to do things themselves. What I am suggesting is that if someone knows how to do something and they find someone who clearly doesn't, then they should help them, rather than just act like an idiot.
Phew. Rant over
Edit: Incidentally, apologies to those who've pointed out that it's not just the HD2 forums that are like this. I didn't mean to imply that they're the only place it happens. I just can't talk from experience for any of the other forums.

Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave

DaveShaw said:
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the comments Dave. Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks like this.

I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
I really do not mind helping people but what I cant stand is lazyness. Its one thing been new to teh subject and not knowing something and then asking for help but its another to simply not even bother checking a forum stickies or at least doing a simple search before creating a topic that has already been created.
On some occasions its because the subject is a hard one to search and filter out but on allot of occasions you know its simply because they have not bothered and thought they would just create a topic and let other people do work for them, That is what I cant stand.
Although I have stopped been really abrupt I will still not answer these people but instead choose to make sure they are aware that its not on.
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.

Completely agree with what the OP is trying to say.

TheATHEiST said:
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
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Click to collapse
Are the from people you helped, or from people who liked your quips? (j/k)
TheATHEiST said:
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
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Click to collapse
I think the point John is making, is that the unhelpful replies limit users ability to search. For example, searching for "Help Flashing Evo" will find threads with the answer "Use Search", (recursion ) hence annoying the user and causing them to post instead of carrying on.
Users who don't bother reading/searching are (and probably always will be) a problem, hence svetius's change requiring 10 post to use Development forums; we need to find more efficient ways to help them
Dave

thank you very much!!! i have been thinking about this topic a long by myself, but i didnt dare to mention it with my low post counter.
I got my HD2 only 1 month ago and its my first WM device. I am very good with all technical devices, but it was still very hard for me to find the right answers.
As i just bricked my nokia phone during an update i wanted to make sure to not brick my HD2..
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.

oida_oida said:
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guides and the wikis + plethora of resources are already in place especially for establishes devices like the Leo. The only issues is the "newer" crowd is lazy and does not search and hence hundreds of threads asking questions to which answers have already been mentioned sometime somewhere on the forum. That's not the only issue- the problem is that these newer people won't be patient or even post in the correct place.
For eg. I have seen threads about Android development being posted in Win D&H.
We have to live & deal with it, it's a side effect of growth and progress.
JM2C's.

There seems to be a significant amount of animosity of late in all forums - not just HD2. I'm not certain as to why this is, all I do know is that I find unacceptable. As moderators, we spend more time cleaning up flame & troll posts than working on our own community contributions.
My observations:
XDA is about bringing together folks who have similar passions about mobile technology. As such, I expect a certain degree of maturity and professionalism from all members during their "stay" on this forum.
Responses that provide helpful and constructive information as opposed to "use the search", "try Google", "it's broken", "fix it", etc. help guide the thread back to topic. Here's a few examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9929554&postcount=4
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10749020&postcount=7
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10097254&postcount=22
There is absolutely no reason to respond in a rude tone, make someone feel stupid, or disrespect a member trying to offer something back to the community ... it is not constructive and serves no purpose. Members are never forced to frequent a thread on this forum and as previously stated, members should choose to move on instead of posting inflammatory comments.
Shortly after the launch of a well advertised mobile device, there is an influx of new members. Most all carriers and device manufacturers send their customers to XDA for technical assistance. Place a call to your carrier technical support department, it won't take long before the support representative instructs you to: "check out XDA, they have tons of information on how to fix that ...".
Most of newcomers who frequent the site are under the misconception that XDA is an extension of their carrier technical support department. This becomes apparent when I read posts complaining about issues with features or demanding an answer to their problem. As most of these newcomers are less technical, they lack the expertise required to assess the problem and determine the correct terminology to use in a search.
The current consumer model is not conducive to holding carrier and device manufacturers accountable. The current marketing paradigm is about convenience and how the one device that "does it all" is here. Most consumers buy into the paradigm and spend little to no time researching before the purchase. Once the device is purchased and fails to meet expectations, they simply go out and purchase something else.
vBulletin Search is horrible and unless one has a PhD in XDA Google Search, the likelihood of finding a meaningful answer in a billion threads is well ... challenging at best.
There are other observations that I have made; but the ones above are IMHO, some of the key issues and why I prefer to take a less aggressive approach when moderating newcomer posts.
Regards,

Those observations are very accurate and sums up the issue well, Hilaireg.

Thanks to all for giving your two cents on this rather important issue. The problems that we currently face are a product of people not having a sense of community. As hilaireg stated, many come here for a "quick fix" simply because the CSR at their company had no idea what to do and decided to direct you here to see if maybe you could fix the issue yourself.
Admittedly, there are search engines that are somewhat better than vB's, but the point that the OP is making is 100% dead on target. By playing "smarta$$" and replying "search, you n00b" instead of providing any meaningful reply will do nothing else than dilute the results of your search. Having said this, people complaining that the search does not work, 8 times out of 10, are expecting the right answer to pop up in the first result from the thread, and will probably give up if by the second or third link they have not found anything. Patience is a virtue, and people looking for knowledge should expect for this to come at the price of a little effort.

I went from a $10 clamshell dumdum phone for 6 years, whambang straght into my Leo. I am over 36 & under 38 years old.
It took me 3 months of fumbling around getting peeved over constant resetting and crashes.
Not once did I bother anyone here with a question that with a bit of hands on do-it-yourself would eventually learn on my own.
However, I had Tmo tech. on speed dial...
I am not new to the forum game though...check my thread "Throttled". lol.
anywho, my phone will remain stock with tweaks, skins, and sweet theme action.
This is an awesome piece of awesome, but NOT for the severely impatient or timid.
Thank you XDA for doing the absolute maximum in making my leo purrrr!!!!
and moan threads are for sissies btw...lol.

@ hilaireg & egzthunder1
I understand and agree to some extent your points but the fact of the matter is that something really needs to be done to halt or slow down the amount of dupe posts or other that are polluting/diluting the forum.
I'm going to be honest I dont really have any problems using vB search and usally find the info I need. PLUS much rather find the info myself because it also makes me learn other stuff in process that I may need in future that I wouldnt usually learn if I had just gone and asked somebody for specific info.
Here are the steps I take to find the relevant info...
Check stickies
Check latest topics
Use search function (topic titles)
Use search function (topic content)
Then if I dont find any info I want I begin to start a new thread and take note of the "similar threads" function before posting. If all else fails I use google.
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
I really think that we need to have a 100 post limit on the dev section this will reduce by allot the amount of spam we get, maybe not specifically for replying to topics but certainly for creating them. And also maybe a FAQ sticky in each Q&A forum with links to most asked ones.

TheATHEiST said:
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
There are solutions:
1) the OPs start updating their original posts with solutions to outstanding problems. The search engine is only as good as the queries being put into it, and as more "SEARCH DA TRED NEB3!!!" responses fill the thread, that makes actually finding the solution all the more difficult.
2) Regulars stop flaming the newbies. When I first started posting here I got a number of @ss**** responses to reasonable questions. If regulars behave like that, what type of newbs do you think you're attracting?

Lets not make this a 'he said/she said' or a pointing-fingers thread.
For a solution to the problem at hand, when we see such behavior, we can easily rectify it - as the OP stated - by posting the answer to questions instead of telling the person to search for the answer.
Now this does also bring a 'double-edge' scenario: This may give the n00bs the idea that it is okay to post a question without searching. But this is already happening.
So if we at least cut the amount of posts about the same topic down, there will be less of what bothers the senior members. And we won't have to suggest 'Search the forums for the answer.'
As a possible-soon-to-be-moderator of the Herald forums, I promise to do this myself. Hopefully, we can all agree to do the same as Senior Members of this community. I also don't expect anyone who has less than a hundred posts to do this, but, hopefully a trend will catch on.

apallohadas said:
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
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Click to collapse
Hey I didnt say they was the only problem, hence "99%".
If we keep re-iterating the same answers we are just going round in circles. The ONLY way to solve this is to somehow halt/slow them from asking the same repeat questions in first place, not just keep providing the answers every time they decide to be lazy and ask the same question and not just that they also ask them by creating a topic in the wrong places.

It's not just the HD2 forum, it's the same in the Desire one too (and yes, I'm guilty of a bit of flaming but some people just ask EXTREMELY dumb questions and even when you answer continue to ignore you so they deserve it)
Rule 1 of the forum is to search and for those who haven't even done that they deserve it too. But to those who say they've actually tried and not found anything I'll try and be helpful

These people just need to learn the proper way to ask a question. If you want a response from the power-hungry people who reply with insults, you must phrase it properly.
Instead of saying: "How do you get bluetooth working in Android NAND?"
They need to say: "Android on the HD2 SUCKS because bluetooth doesn't work right!"
What you will then see is these jerks flocking to prove the OP wrong, all while answering his question. 90% of the time, it works every time.

But if we do keep reiterating the answers to properly asked questions, that makes the search engine more useful for those that do use it. The answer doesn't get buried in 'you suk n00b' responses.
If a person feels they can't respond without insults, then they should have the self control not to respond right?

IMO the ones with knowledge need self control and should control their temper; and be helping ( luckily for us most are ).
And the n00bs need to know the forum decorum and manners better.
And the minimum posts requirement to post in dev. section is a small but very important step in the right direction, I recall when I signed up on XDA for months I was just reading and posting. And posted only in the Q&A threads or threads related to fashing/ROMs ( when I needed help with that); but these days the people won't have the patience to do that.
Either we need to vomit it out on them or somehow teach them the old school method of search + posting on right threads/forums.

As much as I love this site...

It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.

deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
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deathcipris said:
It certainly has some goofy friggen rules. I understand locking things out for spammers and all that jazz, but man...come on...I can't post in the development section until I have 10 posts. I can't post more than once every 5 minutes. The development forums, for the G-Tablet at least, seem to devolve from amazing discussion regarding the merits and downfalls of a particular ROM, method of rooting, recovery software, etc...to this pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Anyways, that is my two-cents on feedback of the site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.

1second, just let me get this right..
a user for just 4 months.. and he posts this as his first opinion about XDA, thats not good, thats not good at all
deathcipris said:
pitiful name calling and snide remarks between users ripping on the devs for being thieves or stealing work and not crediting, all without any sort of evidence that the dev is actually doing that. It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yup, someone needs to actually do something about this.. (hint, no? ok...)
ill bring this to the attention of Admins today for you dude, i think that he will find this post very interesting...
i think this is @ rule 2.3 but not sure if it would fall under that or trolling, anyway a rep of the dev is destroyed by these sort of snide remarks/name calling comments so i think you have a very good bloody point.. "It makes me wonder where the heck the moderators are!".....
(oh wait, i remember where.. they are out banning the devs and their hard work for rule 9..)
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn

raving_nanza said:
ps, 10 post rule is for bots, not noobs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errr no it isnt. How do you work that out? lol
How in anyway would it stop or halt a bot?? And since when has bots been a issue specifically in dev forums??

@TheATHEiST oh well, i thought id read it somewhere.. must have been mistaken..
Rn

raving_nanza said:
...snip..
@JimmyMcGee's
no acknowledgment from a you to OP that something will be done about this issue.. (no looking into it or nothing)
just saying, eg "click the report button" is not good enough because OP has clearly told you where and what the problem is..
OP has reported this issue to you, a mod
Rn
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought I did. But I can be more direct if you please.
Moderators need your help. Which is why I asked for people to report problems they say. That being said, we are always evaluating forums to see if we need to allot more moderator resources to a particular forum. Again, we evaluate reported posts that come in to see if a forum is "getting out of hand." So it behooves you again to report posts. Also, you can contact the Administrators or the Moderators. And sometimes we do see with our own forum browsing that a forum needs help, but we can't be everywhere. We are constantly trying to improve XDA, and we always recommend your feedback.

FEEDBACK:
Admins know about this thread to show them OPs post.
The only reason i have picked up on this is because we are already speaking to the Admins about these issues, well.. something in relation to this issue.
i think it would be wise to place Forum Specific mods in the Android Rom Development.. for ALL devices, its the only way to stop this "trolling".
This kind of behaviour is not acceptable, its already got out of hand, and i aint even a Mod to know that - so who evers role it is to be in the Android forums, aint doing a good one
Rn

JimmyMcGee said:
Thank you for your comments. If you think the degradation of threads now is bad, they were worse before the 10-post rule. Also, the timing thing is a Server Load balancing attempt. This site have 15,000+ users at any one time., that takes a lot of server load. Finally, we have a group of 60 moderators to cover a forum of 4million users. We can't be everywhere, this is where you can help. If you see an issue you can PM the forum specific mod. or click the report button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App

doktornotor said:
Ok. 60 mods for 4M users? Failure in the recruitment dept. for sure.
And if your way if encouraging users to report posts means the crippled report post functionality - sorry, you really do NOT encourage reporting, you do exactly the opposite. (Worse yet, you actually like not getting the reports, as the now closed thread about this issue confirms.
Signal/noise ratio extremely bad ATM, sorry.
Sent from my LG-P500 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.

conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL. Yeah, thanks for proving my point. Not to mention - quite a couple of people have already confirmed on the original thread that it does discourage them pretty heavily - but of course sticking your head into the sand rocks here, so lets just lock the thread )
Once again:
- Go recruit more moderators (60/4,000,000 == absolute fail!)
- Once done - go and uncripple the report code, i.e. - go use the darned DB information you already have in some way. Yeah really, you already have the information who is your forum-specific moderator, so use it! Oh really, I do mean it, use it - do not force people to dig into some ultrastupid Google Docs document with moderators list (why on earth you cannot use HTML at least is a question in itself). I really do not have time for your "distinguish" games. Do make use of what you have to make the process efficient, not to make it suck like hell as you have done.
P.S. And - while looking @ my PM. We do NOT need some nonsensical Like/+1 buttons or any of that ridiculous social-networking bubble crap, really. Definitely not until you sort out the above and replace the search with something working that does not confuse people like hell and gives them relevant search results.

I agree, that having to PM a moderator several times a day is not ideal.
Personal Example: At least over in the EVO 4G development forums, you have several [Q] posted daily despite a sticky saying not to and update rules sticky saying not to do such. On top of that, you have the flaming, personal attacks, and other hostile users daily as well.
I know out of three mods, I've only ever received a response or acknowledge from one. And that one is the only one I've ever seen take action to a thread that gets reported by myself and others. I don't always expect a response, but it does add a bit of a personal connection.
It became so out of hand, that I just gave up and had my main developer account deleted and I moved my work else where.

Wow 60 mods. Hum a bit short there don't you think. A forum this size needs allot more than that, especially if the admin want it to be " the premiere android site'
sent from my bolt

I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.

Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant

Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt

I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz

abn75 said:
Refine all you want, but honestly as long as the mods/ admins allow users to post ad they have been, ie derogatory statements so called devs posts mods named "rapist", and using illegal drug names for their themes mods etc , users and respectable devs will continue to leave. Oh i know report them, wait a few weeks month what have you for someone to get around it.
sent from my bolt
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Click to collapse
To be fair, I know the themes and mods you speak of and yes, I agree, not 100% user friendly. Sitting back on your laurels and letting it happen isn't the answer to seeing XDA becoming more productive, though.
At least if you report, you've done 'all you can' to help. Not much, but something

TheATHEiST said:
Well imo the 10 post rule should be a 100 post rule.
New users have absolutely no business posting in the dev section. 9/10 they simply ask something that has already been asked before a million times over in the roms thread of they create a topic when they or anybody else shouldn't be creating topic in there in the first place, The dev section is for posting of work/reference only.
If you are a new user you can use the general forums or Q&A's if you need help you have no real need to post in dev section.
The rule was to stop n00bs posting crap and polluting the threads. Its hope that the time they have made 10 posts they will have a little more knowledge and the delay has given them the time to read the most basic guides on how to do thing or to at least found the search button.
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Click to collapse
and it is this attitude by the older members that gives the forum the reputation as not user friendly. Both noobs and experts alike could do better in that regard.
conantroutman said:
It certainly does not discourage people from reporting these issues. It merely asks that you distinguish between a minor or serious issue and report it in the appropriate way.
Serious issue - Use the report post button.
Minor Issue - PM your forum specific moderator.
That is in no way, a "crippled" system. It is more efficient and allows us to take action on the serious issues much quicker than before.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta disagree. Minor issues are not being dealt with at all on the forums I visit and quickly get out of control. Lost 2 devs in the last week due to it.
the_scotsman said:
I can't speak for the admins of the site, but I do know that managing a large group of moderators is not easy...the overhead is already huge...adding a significant amount more may help solve one issue, but others then arise from this.
Trust me, we are currently in discussion about refining the system...please just be patient.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and controutman are 2 of the most active mods I've seen on xda. I don't know that I've even seen our general mod even post or address any issue. I think that might be the problem. Not to mention that only 1 mod in any forum means that 90% of the time, you have no mod.
juzz86 said:
Calm down.
The site grew very big, very quickly. With such explosive growth, a shortage of moderators was expected. While I agree it's frustrating at times, it's temporary. A moderation drive has just concluded, and some vacancies are sure to be filled out of this, which will at least relieve some of the pressure.
You will never see, nor would you be able to maintain, the level of professionalism we all see as ideal for XDA. There are too many users, too many recruits, and too many variances in opinion and viewpoint. It's not going to happen. Likewise, no one user will ever be 100% happy with the current setup. Just be happy you have a place to come and source the exceptional material on offer.
Also, your first post should never be in a Development forum. Ever. The '10-post Dev forum' rule is the best thing ever, because it gives you at least ten minutes before people come in and start 'thanking' the dev or filling the thread with idle chatter, threats and pathetic arguments.
If you truly believe your first post should be in a Dev forum, you definitely possess the nouse to do some charity work and help ten poor souls in the Q&A forum first. Earn your stripes.
/rant
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Click to collapse
Completely disagree. I don't think this forum has grown that rapidly. It has been around since winmo smartphones. The focus has just shifted.
Now general forums are full of custom ROM related questions specific to one ROM (and usually not listed in the title). Maybe there needs to be a subsection of the dev section for questions related to specific ROMs. I've always thought that the most appropriate place for ROM related questions is that ROM. It just seems like the "experts" don't want to help the "noobs" out anymore. Yes it gets tiring answering the same question over and over again, but berating every new member for not being able to search a huge forum correctly is not the answer.
RoboCuz said:
I would like to weigh in, as a new user, but long time lurker. I did not like the 10 post rule, as I had some things I wished to post directly to a couple of threads of ROMs that I had been using, after thoroughly researching and finding relevant background information. I was frustrated that I could not post where obviously appropriate, and had to post a question on a general question forum instead of on the obvious thread that I should have.
I see the value in a n00b not getting to post, but for someone like me that has some experience, it was frustrating. However, after giving some thought, I went around, and looked for questions that I could answer, ways I could quickly contribute some value. In hindsight I could have done a better job, and probably done it quicker.
Anyway, I might have missed it, but in looking around as a new user desiring to post, it wasn't obvious to me that was a useful way to pass my 10 posts...I was thinking I needed to wait until I had 10 good reasons to post stuff in a general forum, so I quietly waited...and then I had the epiphany.
I guess this long post is just me trying to point out, it might be useful to guide some of the slightly less n00bish but new users to a more useful path of trying to answer a few questions possibly, to get their post count up It certainly would have caused this user to have that epiphany earlier, and maybe been less frustrated. For what it's worth, after my epiphany, I have no problem with the 10 post rule.
Cheers
RoboCuz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is the problem. People that don't have your common sense will hit that 10 post limit so fast, it is not really a hinderance.
For instance:
"lol 10char" is such a common phrase these days, I think people are using ctrl "v" do paste it on every thread...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.

nrfitchett4 said:
...snip...
I think the biggest problem with xda is that the smartphone community has gotten more immature. Before it was full of business users and techies that could afford a 500 dollar toy. Now everyone has one (including my 7 and 10 year olds) which means a much younger user base which to me are immature. And some of them are our best devs, but get their feelings hurt much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree here, and this is something we have to deal with. I started on this Forum Back with WM6, so I've seen the change. And it definitely has caused a new user management learning curve. We are learning as we are going. It's not perfect, but we are not just sitting around doing nothing.
I wonder if I can solicit hard answers.
How many mods should we have?
How do we manage that many mods to ensure similar reactions from Mods?
How do we manage mods managers?
How do we implement this without having a large bureaucracy that slows down response time even more?
These are some of the questions we are dealing with. Believe me, I don't want anyone to thing we are ignoring their concerns, in fact many of us mods have the same concerns, but there are no easy answers. We are working through them Anyone is free to PM me with their concerns.
Also, you, as members of the forum are integral to the success of this site, if you see no action from your assigned Mod, please, let us know.

So where in the rules does it say that....

You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions. I can honestly say that i have rarely seen a response in a Dev thread that was directly related to moving the rom forward from a true development perspective. Most of the guys complaining about the rules don't seem to actually understand the rules themselves. Let me clarify.... Starting a thread is not the same as posting within one. There is one rule that most of the forum police seem to always over look and that is 2.3
"2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior."
So before you jump down someones throat about not following rules maybe try taking a look at the rules and make sure you understand them yourself. I'm sure someone will ask how this relates to our phone and the answer is that it doesn't. It does however relate directly to the e4gt community.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA

I think the biggest reason people get flamed for asking questions in the dev thread is that they don't follow rule number 1 of the forum rules...
"1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news."
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17681946
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

The thanks button is there to prevent a ton of low/no content "awesome work" posts. Who wants to wade thru posts like that? I sure don't.

Honestly. Based on the wording of these rules. The dev section should be for releases then locked down. Cause honestly there is very little talk in the dev threads that can be considered development related. Almost everything I have seen in the dev threads since I have been on XDA could really be considered general talk. Let me say too that I'm not opposed to having the dev section only for releases. I think it would be a lot nicer if it was reserved for releases only. Most of the actual dev work takes place on twitter or the IRC from what I've seen. So it wouldn't hender development.
As for people jumping down someones throat for asking a question. Honestly. I think some people just look for a reason to play forum police. I have been called every name in the book. Sometimes I deserved it. Other times I didn't. Just have to ignore it sometimes. If someone sees a post that shouldn't be. Use the report button. If you're happy with a ROM or an answer. Use the thanks button. Google the hell out of ****. Best advice I could give anyone. But I will never agree with someone jumping someones ass for asking a simple question. We were all new to the forums at one time. Unfortunately you can't teach class.

A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

Its because your taking valuable space from others that have to let everyone know they are "downloading it now!!" instead of giving useful feedback for the community.
Its the me mentality.... Blame society and the educational system.

azyouthinkeyeiz said:
A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.

ungovernable1977 said:
The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk

iSaint said:
Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
Dont get me wrong, I dont have any problem with your humor... just saying that when its funny people tend to forgive off topic, but if its phrased as a question, you are told to piss off... its just really vague. I used to rarely post in Dev in the epic4g forums, as for a long time the threads WERE development... but as we all know, the devs tend to IRC or twitter or whatever... its not in the XDA threads like it used to be. I actually really miss that, I could pop in whenever and learn from the ones who know what they're doing... I really feel weird going to a chatroom at 35 years old, and regardless, dont have time, I have my own real world 5 year old to raise. Anyways, maybe they should REALLY crack down, and if its not DEVELOPMENT it goes in the general forum... I asked a question in the dev thread about how to flash CNA, more clarifying what the preferred method is with the devs, as thats who I usually listen to... and it turned into a flamewar... it was stupid... I should have just walked away, but I have just seen a lot of people get blasted with a dozen posts for something really innocuous... so I decided to say something, and actually I should have paid more attention to which CNA thread I was in... they look the same, just different off topic conversation at any given time! But questions pertaining to the ROM... cant have that... cant have that.

The solution?
How about we lock the development threads after the developer has posted what they needed to? Why don't we also close the Q&A section so people don't start
flamewars about questions being asked multiple times? You know what, we might as well just close the entire forum and make it so only developers can join and share their work together.

This should help you out some:
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
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15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
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Click to collapse
XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.

I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.

jerdog said:
This should help you out some:
XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh there it is... right in the rules...

scarmon25 said:
I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours

jerdog said:
In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.

scarmon25 said:
Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed.
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Devi0124 said:
You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read here please
"Thinking of posting a new thread???
Use the search button on the top bar between "New Posts" and "Quick Links"
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics that have threads already existing or [Q] questions in the development forums!
The thread will be locked with no notice and/or up to a temp BAN!!.

Thats the big difference from even a year ago... all the actual development work is being done offsite, either twitter (why I dont know), IRC, or the dev crews own sites. It used to be where the Devs would discuss their work in the Dev thread, and it was totally obvious that if you posted something that wasnt actually developing, you would feel like an ass. But becuase the work has shifted off-site, the dev threads look like ghost towns if everyone follows the rules, AND always errors on the side of not posting... so people not used to this new dynamic start posting 'wheres the update', 'what about adding this feature'..... as they would not be seeing any actual development going on. Just lock down the Dev threads, so theres no debate... if youre actually working on the rom or whatever, the OP/Mods can allow you to post in it... then all the troll minimods get get bent and if they talk **** in general they can get flagged and vacations. If you aren't listen in the OP as a developer working on the project, or maybe beta testing a release for the Devs, no posting! Simple. I think the days of XDA being only devs is long gone, as those devs would move on if they did not have a forum to interact with their userbase... as some have to places where people with bad attitudes get banned before people that god forbid have a question. I agree, do away with Q&A... its more on topic than most crap in general, that way theres a dev (downloads) section, and everything else. they nobody has to worry about 'wah, this thread is cluttered and I wanna vent on people, so im gonna talk **** THEN get the mods to clean it up'. The funny part is the drama is actually being created by those not taking part in these conversations, theyre too busy playing minimod to pay attention. 1 question in a dev thread, directly pertaining to that ROM and that ROM alone, and its answer, even if its and answer and 'search next time' is a lot less than that answer plus 5 different little pricks dictating what they think belongs where.
Your quotes of the rules only highlight the fact that they are vague and outdated, as very little actual development happens here anymore... sorry.

wase4711 said:
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics [...] or [Q] questions in the development forums!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this really can't get any more clear. he is clearly referring to new THREADS, not posts.