Welcome & Introduction - PC Hardware for Linux Developers

Welcome & Introduction - PC Hardware for Linux Developers

To all forum readers and lurkers, welcome to a new and experimental section of the forums! The PC Hardware forums are part of our expansion into a limited discussion of PC hardware for our enthusiasts and developers. So while the normal forum rules apply you may notice that things here will be slightly different and a work in progress.
Here's what you can expect in each of the forums within here:
PC Hardware Portal Article Discussion is where the portal team will be posting a new thread for each article on the category. While Disqus isn't a bad option it's also a very limited one in comparison to our forum membership - and so we'd like to try moving some of that discussion here. It also gives us the ability to give some behind-the-scenes updates and additional content that may not fit the Portal well, such as build logs and photos of projects we're working on for Portal articles.
Forum members are more than welcome to continue the discussion but new threads will only be created by us here. If you want to carry on a discussion of a different topic, we have you covered.
The PC Hardware For Linux Developers section is ideally for continuing the discussion and talking about topics near and dear to our developers' hearts. Whether you're just starting out and want to know how to build your own kernel/ROM, set up a kitchen to theme, or something more advanced... if it's about Linux this is the place to talk about it!
While the name doesn't call it out specifically it's well known that a subset of developers use Mac OS X instead - feel free to post in here too on your topics. To help clarify we ask that the prefix [OSX] be used so readers know this deals with a Mac-specific topic.
Lastly our PC Hardware General is for all other discussions under the sun and related to the topic. We're not looking to replace your go-to sites but rather foster a conversation in addition to that. And while we certainly understand that these discussions can get "heated" we ask that people treat each other with the same civility and respect as you would anywhere else on the XDA forums.
Your moderation team can be found in the upper right hand corner under "Moderators." Please feel free to contact us if there are any questions/concerns. In addition you will likely find me around here quite often - part of my job as PC Hardware Editor is to help foster those discussions. And we'll be watching to see how this develops - if we need to split this up further you may see additional forums being added or moved here to better keep the related discussions together!
Thank you for your continued time and support of XDA!

Related

Threads with many hundreds of posts are crazy-making!

Often a single thread will wind up having many hundreds, even thousands, of posts. In most cases, one would have to be a masochist to read them all, but, unless one can come up with good search terms to find posts relevant to a particular aspect of the thread topic, one is likely to miss significant, even crucial, information.
It seems that, in many contexts, starting new threads is frowned upon here, and users are encouraged to add new topics to existing threads. An extreme example is the thread:
Barnes & Noble Nook Color > Nook Color Android Development > Development Q&A - Ask Developmental Questions Here!
Mikey starts the thread with the message:
If you have any questions that may be development related please post them in here instead of making a new thread. Hopefully others will try to answer your question to the best of your abilities. Plus it saves me from moving a few hundred threads a day
Thanks!
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To me this makes no sense. Wouldn't it be better to have a sub-forum for such questions, so that users who have a question, perhaps even one not clearly formulated in their mind, could see what questions have been posted and possibly answered already? (Parenthetically, I would like to know how to distinguish "Developmental Questions" from other technical questions.)
Also, I think a lot more use should be made of the Wiki. For example, wouldn't it be useful to have a Wiki page for each ROM or closely-related set of ROMs for each device or set of devices that said ROMs have been developed for? Couldn't any guide that will inevitable require updating in response to developments and user questions be better done as a wiki page? (I would allow for the possibility that changes in the page might require the approval of the author of the guide.)
Am I banging my head against a wall here?

There is a lot of good info in the threads. But you expect devs to keep things up to date in one location? Some of them do and do a really good job at it. But most don't. Hell 95% of the time they don't even have a description of what the benefits of buying their paid apps over the free version are in the market. They don't put forth the effort when they are trying to get you to spend money, why would they do it in the forums. [/rant]
Sorry guys, just sick of the lack of descriptions/features the market.

aarons510 said:
Often a single thread will wind up having many hundreds, even thousands, of posts. In most cases, one would have to be a masochist to read them all, but, unless one can come up with good search terms to find posts relevant to a particular aspect of the thread topic, one is likely to miss significant, even crucial, information.
It seems that, in many contexts, starting new threads is frowned upon here, and users are encouraged to add new topics to existing threads. An extreme example is the thread:
Barnes & Noble Nook Color > Nook Color Android Development > Development Q&A - Ask Developmental Questions Here!
Mikey starts the thread with the message:
To me this makes no sense. Wouldn't it be better to have a sub-forum for such questions, so that users who have a question, perhaps even one not clearly formulated in their mind, could see what questions have been posted and possibly answered already? (Parenthetically, I would like to know how to distinguish "Developmental Questions" from other technical questions.)
Also, I think a lot more use should be made of the Wiki. For example, wouldn't it be useful to have a Wiki page for each ROM or closely-related set of ROMs for each device or set of devices that said ROMs have been developed for? Couldn't any guide that will inevitable require updating in response to developments and user questions be better done as a wiki page? (I would allow for the possibility that changes in the page might require the approval of the author of the guide.)
Am I banging my head against a wall here?
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Once a Device forum reaches a certain amount of posts, a new sub-section for "Q&A" gets added to the device forum. In the meantime, we use a specific thread for questions regarding development. This makes it easier for devs to read through there threads and pull out issues and come up with better products. You as a user are assumed to have the basic knowledge to search for your answer before posting questions. If you still can not come up with an answer, then by all means, post your question in the "General" sub-forum.
Also, can you tell me what being a masochist has to do with anything?

[All XDA Members] Feedback/Recommendations for XDA

After reading a few threads and comments from our members I thought it may be worthwhile to create a Feedback, Recommendations or Idea's thread for XDA. We want to improve our forum for developers and the normal users.
So, rather than sending a PM to a Moderator, please feel free to leave any feedback or idea's you may have to improve XDA, so we can discuss them properly, openly, with the plan to hopefully implement the ideas which are good.
It's sole purpose is to improve XDA and collect your thoughts and idea's.
We will all be monitoring this thread, and someone will hopefully reply without much delay.
Thanks
Rick
Moderator/Developer Committee
Edits done by Clark Joseph Kent to better support XDA.

XDA-Developers needs to be more about developers
While I see that time and users have made XDA less about development and more about user support, I think XDA has gone too far in that direction.
Developers need a place to DISCUSS development.
The "General" subforums are too overwhelmed with threads like "Post pictures of your phone", "list of threads linked from other places" and other random "general user" stuff.
The "Q&A" subforums are now a place where moderators chase newbies to. The most technical question you might find in the Q&A section these days is "I just bricked my phone, what do I do?" (Usually, the answers are either making fun of the OP or telling him/her to search.)
The "Development" subforums, which seems like a logical place to discuss development, is now reserved for people to post finish products only and beg for donations - It's the XDA version of the "app store." There's no actual "development" discussion allowed.
Here's what we don't have anymore (but desperately need):
A place where a kernel developer could start a thread discussing the pitfalls of turning off processor cores on a particular device when the device is idle. That would likely lead into a discussion on possible ways to optimize the IN/OUT code for the cores, which would actually *gasp* promote development.
A place where a person might post a "HOW TO" document describing how to modify a stock firmware for a specific device to override carrier controlled lock downs. (For example, editing the CSC for a samsung device.)
A place for development related DISCUSSION - not just a subform for "I cobbled together mods I copied from other people into a so-called ROM and will now beg you to donate to me and press my "thanks" button."
XDA promotes itself as a DEVELOPERS FORUM. The definition of "forum" is "A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Doesn't that seem to indicate that development related discussion would be encouraged here?
(continued...)
---------- Post added at 11:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:51 AM ----------
So, the obvious question about my post above is how do you moderate a "developers discussion" subforum?
I honestly don't see a problem with that. You make posting access to that subforum by request only. The access should be granted pretty freely but with a note reminding the user that any non-development discussions will result in loss of access to those subforums. Plain and simple. Any RD's or ERD's would automatically be given access without the need to post a request.
Only developers should moderate those subforums, as the fact is that XDA has some moderators that have no clue whatsoever what "development" is.
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
...
I'll have one more post to discuss the current vagueness of the rules and the random enforcement of them...

Gary, while I agree with many of your key points one I disagree with is that only elite developers (who don't have the time) are the ones who should have the 'final say' with regards to moderation, and that they are the best qualified to do so. Given a good set of rules to use as guidelines, any level headed person who is committed to helping XDA move along smoothly is qualified to be a moderator. I am not a developer, however, I've been moderating forums for years now. People are people no matter what the subject. You and I have discussed the rules, which are being worked on. I like the idea of a 'developer only', invite only forum. I think it's time to make that happen. Given that I am so not a developer, I know when I'm over my head - and we have people on the team who moderators like me can turn to. Moderators are here to help, not hinder - I think we can work this all out so the developers are happier, users learn, and moderators moderate

garyd9 said:
I'd even go so far as to suggest that XDA's ERDs would be given final say in moderating those subforums. Actually, it might be a good idea to give ERDs final say in moderating all the development related forums - including the existing so-called "development" and "original development" subforums.
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Some interesting points you've listed, which I can honestly say are being looked at, however your point above, I'm gonna have to disagree with. The ERD's are extremely busy with actual development, as are most, if not all the developers. If we where to also ask the ERDs to moderate all the development related forums, they'd have no time to develop

I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.

garyd9 said:
I didn't suggest that ERD's would be constantly moderating them - only that they'd have the opportunity (if they chose it) to be the final say. Who do you trust more to make an informed decision about what is development and what isnt':
Entropy512 or ModJohnCanBarelyRoot?
I think the ERD's are more involved (at least in reading) than many people think, and XDA should respect their knowledge and ability by giving them the option of stepping in saying that, despite what a non-developer moderator might think, this is or isn't dev related.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion.
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Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. I have the utmost respect for ERD's, and RD's. I'm not a developer myself, would never claim to be, but I do try and read up on things to understand them so I can make informed decisions. But likewise, I do ask developers for advice on specific things, then learn from what I'm told. In an ideal world, we'd let ERD's have the final say, maybe even RD's, but with so many in house fights amongst so called dev's, there is the potential for abuse which is what concerns me. I cannot see ERD's doing this mind you.
Again, interesting ideas which I welcome

So on to what I'm sure will be a sore subject: Rules and moderation...
I realize that XDA has grown by leaps and bounds since I first joined. Back then, there were only a handful of people geeky enough to have smartphones. Today, they are the norm. With more users there are more devices, more forums and XDA needed more moderators. That's perfectly understandable. It's also understandable that XDA has reached into the "non-developer" pool of people for moderation help.
However, the forum rules which the moderators supposedly moderate by are too vague and really don't guide users (or moderators) in the proper way to do things. It only makes matters worse then the moderators enforce those rules in seemingly random ways. Finally, when a bad decision is made by a moderator (or a decision that a user thinks is bad), there's no documented way for a user to ask for help. "Report to moderator" is pretty useless when you're only reporting to the same person you are complaining about.
If there's a guideline, it should be shared by ALL the moderators and documented so that users can understand it. The primary location to find these rules and guidelines is a post that is stickied in every single forum/subforum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/announcement.php?a=81 If it's not in that post, then it's fairly safe to assume that users don't know about it.
So what's wrong with those rules? Well, they are pretty vague in too many cases. Vague rules lead to different people interpreting them differently (or interpreting them selectively for different people.) Here's some examples:
"Don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. " "Commercial advertising, advertising referral links, pay per click links and other income generating methods are forbidden. Do not use xda-developers as a means to make money." -- Yet, how many people have seen a developer clearly post (or get someone else to post on their behalf) that if people don't "donate" enough money for them to buy a device, they don't development for that device. To me, that sounds like "I'll sell my development for the cost of the device."
"Off-site downloads are permitted if the site is non-commercial and does not require registration.... but may be permitted if ... the site is a relatively small personal website without commercial advertising/links (i.e. not a competitor forum-based site with purposes and aims similar to those of XDA-Developers.com.)" -- There are literally thousands of links on this website for downloads on sammobile.com or samfirmware.com. That site requires registration, advertises, and has forums that "compete" with XDA. Yet, the links are still there.
"If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used." -- I think this one depends on who is violating the rule. Apparently, if its a 15 (now 16) year old kid, it's okay. Yes, I'm bitter about this one as I have had my work used (without my permission), had reported it to moderators, was told someone would look into it, and then had the report disappear into a black hole. It only made matters worse when that same person accepted "donations" given as a result of the code stolen from me. Being I ask people to donate to a children's hospital (not to me) for my work, I feel as if my work was stolen from me, and money was stolen from a child who desperately needed medical care. There's no question as to who developed the code, as gerrit/github timedate stamps don't lie. In truth, I wouldn't have minded about this so much if the little thief forwarded the donations to a real charity. I do share my work freely, but I VERY seriously resented (and still resent) my work was used for a thief's profit. To my way of thinking, there's nothing vague about the rule here - only the lack of enforcement.
Then there's the whole thing with that types of threads go into which subforums. There's simply NO consistency with this. A perfect (and recent) example is that I posted a thread in a dev subforum containing modifications for a single stock samsung package, SecLauncher2.apk. That was pushed to apps&themes by a moderator. That same moderator, however, has permitted threads for modifying only "SystemUI.apk" and only "android.policy.jar." He's also permitted completely non-development related things such as "post modem dumps here" and "stock deodex firmware."
So, not only are the rules vague, but the moderation of the rules is so inconsistent that a user can't even look to precedent to decide what is and isn't allowed.
....
I'm going to stop here. I feel like I've started ranting, and that isn't productive. The points are valid, but discussing them has brought up things I'm (obviously) very bitter about.

Really appreciate this feedback, guys. We're going to bring it forth in our monthly call with the admins and site owner. :highfive:

What about doing a forum named like "other devices root development". There are a lot of potential devices that don't get root because they don't call the devs atraction (and some of the have locked bootloaders).
I also think that there are forums from brand new "high-tech" devices that don't get development because well, there is no development for unlocking bootloaders or doing something like root for locked bootloaders, which happens on some devices. So, again, othere devices could have their chance.
mfsr98

@garyd9, no need to be bitter, I'm actually glad to hear you views, so rant away. I created this thread for this very purpose, to hear the views of the users, to better XDA
...........................
You can lead a fool to wisdom but you can't make him think! XDA, mobile wisdom, not a n00b feeding ground!!

-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

sgt. slaughter said:
-gary
While I agree with some of what you have said I feel if you want strictly 100% development talk then that is reserved for the RD forum for RDs to have amongst themselves... Yes there are developers that are not RDs and to that I say they should apply to become RDs. There needs to be a place to allow users to provide feedback and suggestions on things that are developed.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.

reinbeau said:
There is a place for that. The problem is there isn't a place for real development talk. Any real discussions get drowned out by inanity. I think with the influx of new people that noise to real development ratio has finally reached a tipping point. Then again, just how much input can Jon Q. Public have in development other than saying "I want this" or "How do I do that"? Those are user issues. We need to develop better developer solutions.
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Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
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Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2

garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
It is absolutely impossible to have purely 100% code talk in the dev sections. The size of the userbase is way too large for the mod team to regulate that.
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

sgt. slaughter said:
Adapt with the times as things change.... Change and adjusting is tough at times but if done so correctly its for the better of all those involved...
...
Hence the RDs section will be best if you want no nonsense dev talk.
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You may be right, but I don't want to consider the possibility that XDA-Developers might become a non-developers forums. If your suggestion is carried out, I'd predict that it'd slowly (but surely) lose it's developer core and become more and more another "android central" or other generic handheld forum.
My reasoning is simple: XDA doesn't give birth to developers - they are born and bred before they get here. However, you're suggesting that they won't have a place to "talk shop" here unless and until they achieve RD status, which I'm assuming involves a certain application and requires that some projects have already been hawked here on XDA. I'm making some assumptions about RD here, but I think it'd be fairly safe to assume that a person can't submit a professional non-XDA resume to get it. As well, you are also always going to have some devs that simply refuse to "apply" for what they consider a "silly title." More especially those that see "ROM cooks" called RD and look the other way.
What is a real developer going to do in that case? Simple: find someplace else to talk shop.
(It's almost comical the way I talk about RD here. I've been doing professional dev for a very long, have given back to the android and ppc communities, and been an XDA member for a long time - but never bothered with RD status here when the program started. So, I honestly don't know what it might involve. I might be wrong about any type of requirements.)
I guess this question moves beyond my suggestions. I've been basing things on a developer-centric forum. That's what XDA-Developers was when I joined, and quite a few FAQ's we point users to indicate that it's still intended to be. If XDA is going to move away from that, then please disregard my suggestions.
Take care
Gary

sgt. slaughter said:
Hence my initial suggestion, that if you want 100% dev talk take up and use the RD forum and discuss in there...
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
garyd9 said:
Xda DEVELOPERS. Why would a site called xda DEVELOPERS push development talk off into a corner, while non development talk reigns free?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
Exactly.

It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary

garyd9 said:
It seems obvious that one specific issue that everyone agrees on is that *something* needs to be done to handle "developer discussion." While there are different opinions on the best way to do that, I haven't seen anyone post anything implying that dev's talking shop is a bad thing.
Fallen Spartan, perhaps this thread can branch that particular conversation to a separate thread? That would allow this thread to deal with the other issues without confusion.
Thanks
Gary
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For the time being I'm inclined to let the discussion continue in this thread as there isn't much else being discussed here atm. If more idea's/recommendations appear, we can then create a new thread....if needed. Also, if a set way has been agreed on a particular idea/recommendation, I can create a second post updating users so its not lost within the thread

Making room for real developers again
reinbeau said:
Not everyone who develops is an RD - and why would you remove the ability for people to learn and share?
Exactly.
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Hello,
I am one of those professional developers in real life, who don't have the time to play silly points games just to get access to the developer part of a forum. So my "XDA status" is stuck at "noob", but I am really here to look for a place to share technical discussion with other developers.
Looking around (I have been lurking for years now), I think the following improved structure would be a good idea:
In each area (General, OS, device) there should be 4 development subforums rather than the current 1 or 2:
1. Firmware and theme releases.
One thread for each firmware/theme series, hosting download links in the top 3 posts, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Samsung Galaxy III "Firmware and theme releases" forum would have exactly one "Cyanogenmod" thread and at most one "Cyanogenmod kang by temasek" thread.
Real cooks can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
2. Free App releases.
One thread for each free app, hosting download links in the top 3 ports, and support discussions in the rest of the thread.
For instance the Android Free App releases forum would have exactly one "ROM Manager" thread.
Real developers can post new threads and create the first two replies in their own thread. Non-noob users can post in existing threads after the 3. post in the thread.
3. Unreleased experiments
One thread for each unreleased firmware/theme/free app, hosting only discussion of what should go into it, difficulties in making it etc. When released the thread is moved to 1 or 2 as appropriate, at the thread OPs command.
Only real cooks and real developers can post here, there is a limit on new threads per user per month depending on the posters general standing.
4. Developer to Developer
This hosts regular forum style discussion threads where developers for that target (OS/phone) can ask each other questions about technical details for the target, one thread per subject matter, no threads about specific projects. This is the place to discuss stuff like ("Which wceload variants are in which upstream firmwares" in a WM forum or "How are the GPIO pins on the SoC connected to other parts of the phone (in a phone specific forum) or "How does the foo() API work" (in an OS forum)).
Only real cooks and real developers can post here.
Determining access:
Now as to determining the "real cook" and "real developer" status of a user, there could be a quiz and a number of extrinsic tests for each OS. Quiz questions would be multiple choice that a real cook/devel would answer easily, but a poser would get wrong. Other tests could be "prove that you have a developer account on Market/AppStore/OVI/Marketplace" "Show that you can sign an empty sis/cab/etc. with a valid developer certificate" Because getting a new certificate/account for some of the platforms may no longer be possible or may be otherwise restricted, such
tests would just count as N correct quiz answers in determining the pass/fail.

* Tablet Moderation Team*

Hello!
First off, allow me to welcome both new and existing members to the Forums. These look to be exciting products, and I am really hoping to see a great community spring up here. As we like to do with a new forum, we like to introduce ourselves. Of course, as noted, the moderating team assigned to the forum include:
Team Leader/Senior Moderator @Moscow Desire
Forum Moderators @Siberian Tiger, @stamatis, @chrisd1a1, @Divine_Madcat @zacthespack
Personally, i am an avid tablet user, and am currently using both an HP Touchpad and Nexus 7 (2013), as well as a Samsung S4. Please make no mistake, while we all may not be owners of this specific device, it is our goal to be a strong part of the community, and i hope you will allow us this opportunity. I, like the other moderators, have an open door policy, and i welcome anyone to contact myself (or other staff members) to contact us if you have any concerns or questions about the forums (but please direct device specific questions to the Q&A forum).
With that said, i would like to take a moment to reiterate the overall guidelines of the forum, in the hope to prevent issues down the line...
1. Posting in the Development Forum. Creating new threads in the Dev Forum is restricted to development work; this may include Kernels, Root tools, ROMS, and other device developments. If you have a question about a ROM or the device, please post in the Q&A forum, so that the question may be answered correctly.
2. Arguments and Flaming.This really speaks for itself, but bears saying again. Be respectful, and be a community; work together and make this a place that is welcoming to everyone, new and old. If an argument starts, DO NOT participate in it. You have a "Report Post" button. Use it. Let the Mod's take care of it. You are not moderators, so please don't act like it. You don't make anything better by participating, and you may find yourself in trouble as well.
3. Please take a moment to search before posting; forums for popular devices can get hectic, and it is only made worse by having 5 different threads on the same topic. While mistakes happen, we need everyone's help to make sure that the boards are readable and usable for everyone. Odds are, if you have a problem, you are not the first person to have had the issue; you may very well find the solution already discussed. If a thread covering your topic is already there, please keep the discussion in that thread.
4. We are all here to help the users, and to mainly help continue the development of the devices. This is a Development site, not Facebook or other social networking sites. While some off topic banter is to be expected, please keep off topic conversations in the appropriate area; this is especially true for development threads. Too much OT makes threads hard to use for people with real issues/suggestions/questions
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Also have a read of our Forum Rules
If you have any issues or questions, please feel free to contact us via PM. You will find the moderator links at the top of each main forum.
Have fun, and lets make a great community!

Develop Bugs

welcome