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Knowing this site and seeing the rules as they are I know the site wouldn't allow pirated software on the site. You guys don't even allow talking about it.
Well, when I told a friend I got WM6 for my phone he is swearing up and down with me that it is pirated and that I am in Denial (which makes no sense). I honestly can't explain how it isn't illegal, so I figured I would let you guys tell me how to explain this.
You can't explain it because it is a form of piracy. Unless you put exactly the same version of software back on your phone with at most a few things removed, it's a pirated version. If you've put anything on it that isn't freely given out in the rom that you didn't have before than it's pirated.
This site doesn't condone warez or illegal distribution of applications.The difference is that in order to make use of these rom changes, you have to OWN a device purchased with the microsoft software to begin with.
So why would MS take the time to contact the site to remove some Roms and not all or these?
I would have also assumed pirated if it wasn't for the post to people asking for warez. If they allow one and not the other that isn't right, so I figured it was totally legal to have WM6. Maybe the same way I had Windows Longhorn (vista) back in the development days legally.
Our goal here is to make the software that you legally purchased with your $700 device actually work the way it was intended to work. We don't offer apps that aren't prepackaged with these devices. You purchased a WindowsMobile license when you purchased your device.
There's a complex relationship between m$, device manufacturers and Operators. Each makes changes to these devices. Consider XDA-Developers to be somewhere between the device manufacturer and the Operator level.
yeah, technically you paid for a microsoft license when you bought your phone. Still, copying these WM6 cooked ROMs ARE a form of piracy. But it does'nt really matter seeing as HTC is planning to Release a WM6 update anyway. we just got it a bit early.
Our phones came with WM5 not WM6
but.. HTC released WM6 for their devices but our phone carriers may never release them to us
Come on guys this ROMs are not Paireted as they are not sold off the shelf... this is not windos XP Pro or Vista... this is a per loaded software on the devices and most of the or at least HTC is giving free upgrade....
but the ROM upgrade VOID's your hardware Warranty... as its stated in your Warranty terms...
So basically the terms of use for mobile phones is not the same as desktop software because you have no choice but to purchase a legit license for WM when you buy the phone?
truffle1234 said:
Come on guys this ROMs are not Paireted as they are not sold off the shelf.
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So then, a movie leaked on the Internet before it's actual release date is not pirated?
todd_jg said:
So then, a movie leaked on the Internet before it's actual release date is not pirated?
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Click to collapse
That is not the point. The line, though a thin one, seems to be over whether you would normally have to PAY for the software. Thus depriving someone/corporation of revenue it would normally receive.
WM6 will not be charged for. So within those parameters does not fall within the the strict term "Piracy".
That's pretty close Wam7. Operators and/or hardware developers pay licensing fees to m$ for every device they sell. That cost is supposedly subsidized in the price we pay. Therefore, as you say, revenues aren't decreased by our work here. With Warez, this isn't the case as the hacker deprives the author of revenue with every hacked version that gets used.
This is why we don't tolerate Warez here.
Mcrosoft Offering Windows Mobile 6 Free
In this article:
http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/...ws-mobile-6-upgrade-for-device-manufacturers/
It is apparent that Windows Mobile 6 is being offered as a free upgrade to device manufacturers. In reality, what we early adopters are doing is beta testing the OS prior to final release. Microsoft, with their droves of legal experts, may wish to twist this into some sort of piracy, ip, rights issue to save face or just to be a$$hole$, and carriers may wish to add and take away what they want as well (I believe it was Cingular that whined to M$ about XDA-Developers), but the REALITY is that nobody here is doing anything more than unauthorized beta testing of an OS that has been released FOR FREE to device manufacturers. It may be more of a gray area when it comes to the addon applications that sometimes come bundled with the cooked ROMS, or as separate addons (i.e. Cyberon Voice Command), but only if the device you purchased did not originally include the same software. I am NOT a lawyer, and I am sure a lawyer could argue against my point just as easily as they could argue that a child molester is a victim of society. Nonetheless, I do not feel like I am doing anything wrong, and, in fact, I felt very annoyed at Cingular when they refused to give me a refund for my 8525 after I decided it was unusable 45 days after getting one (30 days is the policy for returns). My 8525 sat in a drawer for months, until I decided to flash with a WM6 ROM from this site. Suddenly, it worked! No more freezing, no more bluetooth bullcrap, no more missed calls. I agree with sleuth 100% when he says that what we are trying to do is get our devices to work as they should (stable, fast, trouble free). Despite the constant whining that some of the geeks on this site continue doing about petty bullcrap, bless them for stepping up and delivering a working product to those of us that would otherwise have to sit and wait for a bloated crapware ROM from Cingular with that POS "Get Express Mail" and "Get Telenav" cooked into it, and bless the power users who truly beta test the product to help make a better ROM.
Firehawkns said:
Knowing this site and seeing the rules as they are I know the site wouldn't allow pirated software on the site. You guys don't even allow talking about it.
Well, when I told a friend I got WM6 for my phone he is swearing up and down with me that it is pirated and that I am in Denial (which makes no sense). I honestly can't explain how it isn't illegal, so I figured I would let you guys tell me how to explain this.
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Click to collapse
Who cares, MS is not going out of business, nor will the price of XP/Vista or my next HTC phone go down if I paid for WM6. I dont see Bill Gates eating in a soup kitchen.....oh and the fact that WM6 will be given free as an upgrade can make all the others feel warm and not dirty about themselves.
You see though why it still is piracy, at least right now. For every device running this wm6 software microsoft should have received a payment. If for some reason cingular decides not to upgrade these afterall (I'm just using this as hypothetical) then microsoft is in fact loosing some money. WM6 is not a free upgrade, that misprint was shot down by several new articles after it came out. The reason this form of piracy is accepted is because the end user has no possible way to PAY for the software legally, you have zero options to legally aquire the newer OS. Thus your pirating it becomes a "gray" area of the law.
This is no different than the canadians stealing DTV's signal from the US. They could not legally aquire the signal, their payment would not be accepted, thus they turned to the only other way to get it. That's of course all changed recently.
wpbear said:
Who cares, MS is not going out of business, nor will the price of XP/Vista or my next HTC phone go down if I paid for WM6. I dont see Bill Gates eating in a soup kitchen.....oh and the fact that WM6 will be given free as an upgrade can make all the others feel warm and not dirty about themselves.
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Click to collapse
Oh trust me I don't care. I have 3 pirated XP pro machines running at my house. We just got in a discussion about it so I wanted to see what the answer was. It all started because of all the hell he gives me for my software habbits.
Hey, where is the EULA that I supposedly agreed to? I don't see one anywhere.
and since when do we have pirated beta software? Man, we're been risking our precious device to beta test WM6 for them.
Hmmm.... Well, I think that Microsoft may disagree with that.
http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12837
Similarly, other boards have taken a different view.
http://www.phonenews.com/blog/content/view/133/11/
upgrade the Cingular 8125 from Windows Mobile 5 to Windows Mobile 6. That would be a product upgrade and not a product update, and would require a new license from Microsoft
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Also, the argument could be well made that putting WM6 on a device for which it was not intended DECREASES the sales of the devices it is supposed to go on - limiting upgrades. This would most definitely cut revenue - for the device manufacturers, M$ and the carriers who leverage the upgrades for contract extensions.
That said, I agree that it is a very fine line and that both sides of the argument can be made. However, in a courtroom fight, my money is on M$.
Back in the day when direct tv hacking was very easy the canadian government said this.
If you can't buy it, its not stealing.
Same thing applies here in my opinion based on software.
going back to direct tv hacking they also said if it falls in your backyard then its owned by you. What did direct tv do? They made it harder to decrypt their signals. Solved their piracy problem, even if it was legal in some countries.
I like this thread - I hope people don't mind this philosophical discussion and that they take it as a fun mental exercise, not an argument.
exstatica said:
canadian government said this.
If you can't buy it, its not stealing.
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Click to collapse
So, then you would not mind if I came to your house and took your refrigerator, which is not currently for sale? Not sure about that one - seems overly simplistic. The fact that it is not currently "on the market" is not the same as saying that it has no monetary value.
they also said if it falls in your backyard then its owned by you.
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I don't think that this argument would apply here. Surely the signals from DirecTV were being blasted down into your yard by a satellite. I think they Internet is quite different. Hmmm.... interesting though.
I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed
Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....
RAMMANN said:
What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....
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You will still be able to load apps on to the device from Visual Studios. It will just require giving out the source to do it. So hacks and such that people don't want to go through marketplace will be able to distribute there code as long as they don't care that everyone will beable to see the source.
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
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Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.
I think you just have to accept that WP7 never will be "hacker friendly". I'm starting to wonder if there would have been less whining over the WP7 platform if they'd branded it something completely different, like "Splonge" or "Zaarkoft", since its got virtually nothing to do with WP6.5. The community's expectations would maybe been more realistic.
What's sad is of course that the 6.5 series probably won't be developed further and few or no new devices with better hardware will come with 6.5 (or 6.6 or whatver), but I guess there always is ... Android? Or Openmoko or whatever it's called.
Shasarak said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.
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I like this, hopefully we can get ahold of it and exploit it to it's fullest potential.
Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumbed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Windows customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers.
Nilzor said:
By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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Click to collapse
As I see the Marketplace evolving I must state I've never seen so many new and ugly $1-apps. I'd better pay $20 for a well-designed with great UI and functionality or donate something to a as great freeware app than sponsor those marketplace whores that even don't offer a trial.
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
Nilzor said:
Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
How about wanting to sideload applications MS doesn't want to compete with or otherwise decides is unsuitable for my delicate sensibilities? How about wanting to sideload content made by indies that can't afford MS's regulatory scheme? How about wanting to sideload content so I can get it direct from my friendly neighborhood developer, with all the incumbent benefits and freedoms thereof instead of submitting myself to the whims of a markplace's DRM mechanisms?
Of course, I'm not exactly blown away by the news. Anyone with half a brain knew once the Zunies were in charge of WinMo this was the inevitable result.
brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Students can get the fee waived with dreamspark. All you have to do is verify with your school e-mail. I've already done it.
ladieslova said:
I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we have another way...
quote:
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...
chaoscentral said:
Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...
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any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?
fortunz said:
I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
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Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.
havox22 said:
any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?
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Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)
TehPenguin said:
Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)
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Click to collapse
thanks to bad im in community college, but my girl goes to sdsu so maybe i can get it in her name
nvm my school is on the list
Nilzor said:
Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, that's a valid point. I don't even think we were in the dark from the first day of WP7s' introduction, before this little confirmation. The moment they sent their hipster zunies out to explain how great it was, at least half of us knew they were using Apple's playbook.
I began to come to terms with migrating to android on day 1, and the stench of betrayal has mostly passed on.
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There Will be alternate ways to load apps onto the device, gotten from an updated version of the same article.
I rang t-mob Uk on saturday to see if tethering on their omnia 7 was permitted or not.
Intially the woman started to read the specs of the wrong phone. She then said that tethering via bluetooth and usb works.
Not convinced, I did the live chat via the t-mob site. This time I was told that tethering via Bt and usb is fine BUT additionally the wm6.5 type wifi routing works. I find the later hard to believe and am unsure as validity of the former advice.
Can any one confirm?
Thanks
There is no tethering on wp7 as of yet
There is no tethering option on wp7 yet.
Blimey!!!
Thanks for clarifying this.
The pre-release info was conflicting with some people saying that it was possible but at the discretion of the carrier.
So if I go for wp7 I will then need to cough up extra for a separate data plan for my laptop.
Nice one M$- I have been out of contract since June and was happy to wait for wp7 and now it seems that I can't even do the basics that I have been able to do for the last 10 years.
The Applefication of WM is so disappointing.
I guess I have the option of jumping to the good ship android or buying an old HD2 until M$ add the things that grown ups need or until someone here manages to "jail brake" wp7
Does anyone know when tethering might be added?
Thanks
This is the very first release of an entirely new operating system so people need to be a little patient. Tethering support is coming but we don't know when yet. If you absolutely have to have tethering right now then go with another OS.
Ren13B said:
This is the very first release of an entirely new operating system so people need to be a little patient. Tethering support is coming but we don't know when yet. If you absolutely have to have tethering right now then go with another OS.
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Click to collapse
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!
imaginarynumber said:
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between WP7 and previous Windows Mobile OS versions is why many "less used" features are not yet complete. With WP7, Microsoft actually wants the experience to be fluid and consistent. This means they have to completely rethink and rewrite all the code. There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development. iOS and Android had the same issues with their initial releases.
Good things come to those who wait. Expecting everything in hurry will typically leave you with a bunch of poorly written garbage software. Microsoft has already spoken to both copy/paste and tethering. They will add these features and more. If these features are that important to anyone, they should wait for them to be implemented before buying a WP7 device. Otherwise, there are other choices.
imaginarynumber said:
This isn't a slight on you but the "this is new so expect problems" mantra is crap.
Microsoft have been making smart phones for years, they are not new at this game. There is absolutely no excuse for not being able to provide things that exist in their older platforms. Did the bloke that developed cut&paste in the old winCE die and take his secret to the grave?
Why should we be patient? we are expected to cough up £500 for a phone which may or may not be more retarded than previous incarnations. Microsoft know what they can and cannot do, why not publish a road map?
Hell, it's not like the harware is even new technology!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... so true... there is no excuse really
I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.
imaginarynumber said:
I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.
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Click to collapse
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I am not selling you anything. Just giving an educated response.
Nobody is forcing you to buy a WP7 device. I like the way you ignore that ALL the advertised features of WP7 are fully functional. That kind of negates your statement about "products should work when the het to the market place." This has nothing to do with alpha or beta testing. These features are already at that stage of development.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
imaginarynumber said:
I am not sold.
I think that many of the omissions are not down to the fact that the MS techies were not bright enough but moreover that they are result of microsoft calculating that customers or carriers did not want certain features.
If your argument held true then wm6.5 would have been nearing perfection and there would be no need for wp7.
Perhaps you are confusing patience with gullibility.
BTW with regard to
"There are deadlines, like any business, and certain things had to be deferred to the next update. This is the way things work with software development"
So what are alpha and beta testing for? Products should work when they get to the market place, not half a year later.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it's about both that and the money. For some reason *cough cough RIAA* Microsoft want users to have to re-purchase whatever files they hope to use on the device.
naplesbill said:
You are free to believe whatever you wish. I am not selling you anything. Just giving an educated response.
Nobody is forcing you to buy a WP7 device. I like the way you ignore that ALL the advertised features of WP7 are fully functional. That kind of negates your statement about "products should work when the het to the market place." This has nothing to do with alpha or beta testing. These features are already at that stage of development.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Errr....... thanks for sharing the benefit of your education...
Funnily enough I too had an education. This enables me to read posts by Brandon Watson (Director for Windows Phone 7). The same man that said that WP7 would support tethering but at the discretion of the carrier.
Regrettably my education did not include mind reading and thus I did not realise that his statement meant "WP does not support tethering but it may or may not at some point in the near or distant future"
And to which of the advertised features are you referring? How do you know that they all work perfectly? Would the advertised claim that you can "manage.. your email with ease" suffice? Well seemingly not unless you think that having to hard reset your phone in order to delete your windows live account post a typo error is perfection. Or what about the xbox live extras that have been crashing and now removed from the market place?
As consumers we expect products to improve throughout their life cycles. We want features to become better and not just be omitted. It beggars belief that you think that removing givens such as changing ringtones or tetherings is acceptable.
I agree that nobody is forcing me to buy a WP, in the same way that no recalled toyota owner was forced to by a toyota but I guess that toyota never listed non-sticking brakes as advertised features.
Just out of interest- at what point is one allowed to complain? If i wait until I purchase something do I have even less right given that i knew that it was not perfect at the point of purchase?
I love lamp.
kdj67f said:
I love lamp.
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????????????????
Beyond my ken, sorry...
I do get your frustration and went through the same feelings.
My Tilt 2 (Rhodium) can wifi tether right now and it works great, why not the next 'evolution'?
I think the biggest reason I found it from reading forums and listening to other users is this:
We (those of us who use XDA and like to push our tech to do our bidding) want and use features such as tethering. What portion of the demographic is MS seeking here with WP7, surely a much larger base then those who live / breathe XDA yes?
There aren't thousands, heck even hundreds, of people with torches and pitchforks screaming for tethering. We on these and other forums are, but that is only a small representation of the customer base.
Simple point.. it isn't a primary feature to include in V 1.0 launch, I really hope they add it, but there are many other features that come before tethering. Technically you shoud be paying for tethering anyway, in addition to your wireless data plan.
From what I have read, you are mad that you would have to pay what they ask instead of circumventing that, as you have been (me too!) 8)
imaginarynumber said:
Errr....... thanks for sharing the benefit of your education...
Funnily enough I too had an education. This enables me to read posts by Brandon Watson (Director for Windows Phone 7). The same man that said that WP7 would support tethering but at the discretion of the carrier.
Regrettably my education did not include mind reading and thus I did not realise that his statement meant "WP does not support tethering but it may or may not at some point in the near or distant future"
And to which of the advertised features are you referring? How do you know that they all work perfectly? Would the advertised claim that you can "manage.. your email with ease" suffice? Well seemingly not unless you think that having to hard reset your phone in order to delete your windows live account post a typo error is perfection. Or what about the xbox live extras that have been crashing and now removed from the market place?
As consumers we expect products to improve throughout their life cycles. We want features to become better and not just be omitted. It beggars belief that you think that removing givens such as changing ringtones or tetherings is acceptable.
I agree that nobody is forcing me to buy a WP, in the same way that no recalled toyota owner was forced to by a toyota but I guess that toyota never listed non-sticking brakes as advertised features.
Just out of interest- at what point is one allowed to complain? If i wait until I purchase something do I have even less right given that i knew that it was not perfect at the point of purchase?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Resorting to sarcasm in response to a discussion is pointless. If you don't accept the input of others as valid, there is nothing left to say.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
naplesbill said:
Resorting to sarcasm in response to a discussion is pointless. If you don't accept the input of others as valid, there is nothing left to say.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App
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Click to collapse
The sarcasm was a response to your condescending tone. If you want to take the holier than thou higher moral ground then go for it.
As a long standing WinCE customer I have a right to vent my frustrations and disappointments.
By the same token i don't own an iphone but I retain the right to b!tch about the fact that their greed has (indirectly) fugged up my preferred phone OS.
brytonic said:
I do get your frustration and went through the same feelings.
My Tilt 2 (Rhodium) can wifi tether right now and it works great, why not the next 'evolution'?
I think the biggest reason I found it from reading forums and listening to other users is this:
We (those of us who use XDA and like to push our tech to do our bidding) want and use features such as tethering. What portion of the demographic is MS seeking here with WP7, surely a much larger base then those who live / breathe XDA yes?
There aren't thousands, heck even hundreds, of people with torches and pitchforks screaming for tethering. We on these and other forums are, but that is only a small representation of the customer base.
Simple point.. it isn't a primary feature to include in V 1.0 launch, I really hope they add it, but there are many other features that come before tethering. Technically you shoud be paying for tethering anyway, in addition to your wireless data plan.
From what I have read, you are mad that you would have to pay what they ask instead of circumventing that, as you have been (me too!) 8)
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Hi there Brytonic
here in the Uk t-mobile are more upfront about internet charges and tethering (branded as web'n'walk). My curent contract includes free tethering whereas my previous one had a small premium for the right to tether (which I was happy to pay).
The cost of internet access only without voice is significantly higher than a voice account with web'nwalk bolted on. So if i were to buy a sim free WP the web'n'walk part of my bill would remain unchanged but I would additionally need to pay for web'n'walk for my pc
I agree that we here are only a fraction of the intended market place but it gals me that Microsoft leaked that tethering would be supported.
Am I really being unrealistic to expect a £500 phone to be able to do what my Ericsson T39 could do back in 2001 (ie work as a bluetooth modem)?
If it were the case that we had to wait for the 3g over wifi routing then I would have no problem as that is an enhancement of what I consider to be a rudimentary function.
kdj67f said:
I love lamp.
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LOL!!! Don't start!! Did "I love lamp" on Facebook and it got way into territory reserved for R18
Actually - maybe that is what this thread needs lol
Took the following quote from http://windowsphonehacker.com/thought_why_activating_your_htc_hd2_is_a_bad_idea-01-14-11.php
Thought: Why activating your HTC HD2 is a bad idea
Hacking normally involves some shady but normally legitimate mods to software to bring to light new functions in your device. In the previous Windows Mobile era, Microsoft leaned towards a policy of ignorance towards what developers did to their devices, which brought forth cooked ROMs, unofficial WM6.5 updates, etc. Today, with Windows Phone 7, the stance has changed.
The HTC HD2, once flashed to Windows Phone 7, will not be able to sync with any Windows Live account. This is similar to Windows activation on the desktop, which requires that the software phone home and register its software key. Since the HTC HD2 is not a Windows Phone 7 device, it is not shipped with a PVK, which means it cannot activate with Microsoft's services. When we first reported yesterday about the HD2 getting live services, we were slightly skewed as to what this actually involves.
After further research, we discovered this to be more of a social hack, a type of hack involving tricking clueless employees into thinking that HTC forgot to activate your device. This calls for reason #1 why activating your phone is a bad idea. By lying to Microsoft, you are basically committing a form of fraud to obtain a license key. We are not experts, and the laws vary from country to country, but keep in mind this is not your usual stealing MP3 type of crime-Microsoft gets your name, number, email address, and device information. If Microsoft wanted to enforce this, long story short, you're in trouble.
Of course, we realize that much of the internet is not concerned about breaking their country's laws, a fact we will not have any judgement on. The second reason why you shouldn't activate your HD2 is a little more concerning for some:
Just think. If Microsoft receives hundreds of calls in 24 hours with users claiming their "HD7s" were shipped without PVKs, they're going to catch on. In fact, when reading on XDA developers, a certain post seemed troubling. A certain user writes:
I called the same # about 30 min ago. She asked me what type of phone it was. I said "schubert" then she asked me what happened to my activation code. I told her they never gave me one when i bought the phone. Then she gave me the code. I think there catching on though. She was like " We sure are selling alot of these phones in the last 24h" There gonna catch on just like with the sd cards a while back. Definitely a red flag. They will probably start asking for the serial # of the phone in the near future.
Other users reported being directed to HTC for support, or having strange comments made by Microsoft representatives. The point is this: when you hack software, the software won't bite back. When you hack humans, someone's going to figure it out, and when they do, a lot is going down.
Of course, by now, Microsoft employees have probably read the news all over the internet, so we're interested in what stance Microsoft takes on the issue. There is no way to "purchase" a PVK, unfortunately, leaving this the only option to activate your HD2 and use the Marketplace. Whatever you do is up to you, but we give our warning: Don't get caught, Don't get Microsoft to backlash on everyone else.
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So my thoughts are thinking we were going to get an upgrade from Microsoft to take our HD2's from Win mobile 6.5 to 7. They were talking about a new os way back when the HD2 came out.
Great I thought, sold my TytynII paid T-Mobile £200.00 with an 18 month contract (Ouch). And guess what NO UPGRADE, instead HTC make HD7 using the same hardware with a different case(No access to SD card), just to keep MS off their backs and hey we'll throw in a little back stand to keep you happy.
What [email protected], It's not like I can go and buy a retail, OEM or Upgrade of the new OS. So if this means tricking Microsoft into giving me a license key. tough I'll sleep well tonight.
Glad to get this rant off my chest.
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
We all know there gonna catch up to this, but take advantage now and get your key meanwhile this all happens.
domineus said:
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
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Every device that ships with WP7 should already be pre- or activated during the first setup, well WP7 is not being shipped with HD2, and you are basically exploiting MS activation service.
If you know of CyanogenMod Team Douche, they are basically cooking their own distribution of Android, in the earlier days they were packaging their release with Google apps, it didn't sit well with Google, and they had requested CM remove Google apps from their build tree. The reason is that every OEM who decides to issue a device running an Android flavor is getting the OS for free, but have to pay loyalty to include access to the Market.
With the recent developments around WP7 on HD2, one could easily see why MS might not be too happy about it. OEM's pay roughly $10 in licensing fees r per device to MS to put WP7 on their offerings, well HD2 now becomes a device that got it for free.
Seeing how quickly MS moved to shut down ChevronWP7 tools, and actually patching their OS in the next update to prevent unlocking with ChevronWP7 tools, they might incorporate counter measures to prevent HD2 devices running WP7 from access to their Live services, etc.
On the bright note, once it has been hacked it will only be a catch up game between MS and the enthusiasts - see Apple vs IPhone Dev Team.
good little article! i agree with it, not sure i agree with your opinion though.
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
vetvito said:
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
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agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
vista1984 said:
agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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Android as an OS is free, however to provide the Market access OEM's with carriers have to pay Google.
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
vista1984 said:
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
vetvito said:
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
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ouch,,, i do not deny that there is no direct benefit for MS and HTC..
but when it comes to the advertisement or marketing.. we never know..
or would we hd2 users buy more app and music from marketplace?
or is it a big price gap between brand new hd2 and hd7?
..........
it really depend on how manufacturers think.
they don't need to worry about if another "hd2" case will come up,, this phone is real special one
I've been saying this since news broke of all of this.... I would not be surprised if Live accounts, this means your Xbox Gamertags, get indefinitely banned for this...
http://wmpoweruser.com/chevronwp7-shuts-down-handsets-to-be-re-locked-in-120-days/
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1598050
What the hell man, this is just crazy what is Microsoft thinking? This will only drive more people away from the platform and will keep phone sales at the rate they are now or lower. Who in the world wants to pay $99 a year just to be able to customize a phone? I personally do currently pay the $99 but will stop soon this is just a death sentence for Windows phone, really someone over at MS gets fired over this.
do you realize that most people would not care about these stuff, and we only nerds that like to hack our phones will matter. Maybe microsoft has something better in store? possibly in apollo we will get sideloading capabilities and other power user functions.
lovenokia said:
do you realize that most people would not care about these stuff, and we only nerds that like to hack our phones will matter. Maybe microsoft has something better in store? possibly in apollo we will get sideloading capabilities and other power user functions.
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I sure hope you are right my friend. Maybe Apollo won't have all this Apple style locked down crap.
what it means, in practice?
In practice, what this means for me?
I've a Samsung WP unlocked by Chevron. So, I've installed Nokia Drive, Nokia Maps... this means that after the 120 days, theses apps won't work in my phone?
So basically MS and the Chevron team just ripped off everyone that went and bought a token? I thought the token was forever, was there ever any metntion that it would expire in the future? if not this sounds like a scam, well for those who paid. I see a law suit.
sinister1 said:
What the hell man, this is just crazy what is Microsoft thinking? This will only drive more people away from the platform and will keep phone sales at the rate they are now or lower. Who in the world wants to pay $99 a year just to be able to customize a phone? I personally do currently pay the $99 but will stop soon this is just a death sentence for Windows phone, really someone over at MS gets fired over this.
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seen the latest articles about lumia sales lately? I'll assume not since you insisted on posting this.
Side loaded apps
Like most people, I just want to know if apps already side loaded will continue to work after the tokens are revoked? If they do work, it may be possible to keep it unlocked through a Registry Editor, Root Tools etc.
sinister1 said:
So basically MS and the Chevron team just ripped off everyone that went and bought a token? I thought the token was forever, was there ever any metntion that it would expire in the future? if not this sounds like a scam, well for those who paid. I see a law suit.
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I don't see any law suits as Microsoft as offered to refund $99 and swap Chevron unlock for App Hub Developer unlock.
However, interesting thing would be how many $9 unlocks are from non-supported countries!?
Surely out of 10,000 there are at least 100 people who paid $9 and don't have access to App Hub - those can go for a law suit unless Microsoft is going to make up for it in any other fashion in a separate announcement.
sinister1 said:
So basically MS and the Chevron team just ripped off everyone that went and bought a token? I thought the token was forever, was there ever any metntion that it would expire in the future? if not this sounds like a scam, well for those who paid. I see a law suit.
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Yeah, I'm pissed that I was only renting the unlocker....this was definitely a hose job....these dudes are re-locking already paid for phones.
Side-loaded apps will probably cease to work, just as they do if you were to relock your device now.
quicoli said:
In practice, what this means for me?
I've a Samsung WP unlocked by Chevron. So, I've installed Nokia Drive, Nokia Maps... this means that after the 120 days, theses apps won't work in my phone?
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Yes, probably lol.
Pathetic.
MSFT is giving away free APP HUB accounts for these users. Is no one else reading it?
Sent from my TITAN X310e using Board Express
....the app hub is yearly, so we got a year long account for $9...what was I complaining about
/sarcasm.
quicoli said:
In practice, what this means for me?
I've a Samsung WP unlocked by Chevron. So, I've installed Nokia Drive, Nokia Maps... this means that after the 120 days, theses apps won't work in my phone?
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You're one of the people who make me disgusted at this community. Nokia apps (and other OEM apps) are device specific. You need to buy those devices to get those apps, as those apps on other devices is called stealing. Yet, this entire community insists they are entitled to things they have never paid for... Most of you don't want these accounts to "develop" or contribute, you want these accounts to sideload apps you have no way of paying for/getting.
FiyaFleye said:
You're one of the people who make me disgusted at this community. Nokia apps (and other OEM apps) are device specific. You need to buy those devices to get those apps, as those apps on other devices is called stealing. Yet, this entire community insists they are entitled to things they have never paid for... Most of you don't want these accounts to "develop" or contribute, you want these accounts to sideload apps you have no way of paying for/getting.
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My point! Thanks!! Hence $9 for whatever time it was unlocked for + a year of sideloading stuff (not developing anything) - more than enough!
I don't mind the side loading. I mind the people coming in here to ***** about not having any way to load stolen software into their phone... Its just pathetic. I would understand if you're developing your ass off, but you're stealing... C'mon...
Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
i did the chevron unlock than used the interlop unlock will i be affected ?
FiyaFleye said:
You're one of the people who make me disgusted at this community. Nokia apps (and other OEM apps) are device specific. You need to buy those devices to get those apps, as those apps on other devices is called stealing. Yet, this entire community insists they are entitled to things they have never paid for... Most of you don't want these accounts to "develop" or contribute, you want these accounts to sideload apps you have no way of paying for/getting.
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I could be wrong, but didn't Nokia release these apps in the earlier versions for other non-Nokia devices? Of course (now) Nokia is claiming that their updated apps will be only for Nokia devices. Not condoning piracy here, but I don't see a problem with side loading device specific apps on other Windows Phones. These apps are free to the the users anyway right? -Well most of them... As we all know, each manufacturer has its own collection of apps for their devices. -And we can all agree there are apps that are better than others in each manufacturer app store. If the apps are free, I find it a little ridiculous to say that Windows Phone users would have to go and buy a certain WP just to be able to use a device for a specific free app on their phone. -Now if each manufacturer released their apps to EVERY WP device with the apps being free for that specific device and had a paid version for non-specific devices, my argument would be irrelevant here. -But we know this is not the case.
Anyway, yes I do agree somewhat that some users want their phones dev unlocked just to sideload apps that they themselves didn't develop or buy, but I have to say that I believe some/most members here on XDA contribute to some form or fashion to the development/modding/hacking phone world. I myself became a Windows Mobile/Phone developer because I was amazed at what I could do with my phone when I first started getting into flashing roms for Windows Mobile. I kept on coming back to this forum to see what I could do next with my phone. I finally realized that I couldn't wait for the next thing to come out for my phone, so I started learning the development side of the phone. As the years kept rolling on, I became very familiar with the development process and even made quite a bit of money on my apps. -So the point is, calling people out on wanting the dev unlocks just to sideload restricted apps on their phones is sort of unfair. You and I do not know the motives of the other users on this forum.