Develop Bugs

Marketplace will be the only way to get apps on Windows Phone 7 Series?

I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed

Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.

What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....

RAMMANN said:
What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....
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You will still be able to load apps on to the device from Visual Studios. It will just require giving out the source to do it. So hacks and such that people don't want to go through marketplace will be able to distribute there code as long as they don't care that everyone will beable to see the source.

Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
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Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.

I think you just have to accept that WP7 never will be "hacker friendly". I'm starting to wonder if there would have been less whining over the WP7 platform if they'd branded it something completely different, like "Splonge" or "Zaarkoft", since its got virtually nothing to do with WP6.5. The community's expectations would maybe been more realistic.
What's sad is of course that the 6.5 series probably won't be developed further and few or no new devices with better hardware will come with 6.5 (or 6.6 or whatver), but I guess there always is ... Android? Or Openmoko or whatever it's called.

Shasarak said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.
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I like this, hopefully we can get ahold of it and exploit it to it's fullest potential.

Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumbed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Windows customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers.

Nilzor said:
By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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As I see the Marketplace evolving I must state I've never seen so many new and ugly $1-apps. I'd better pay $20 for a well-designed with great UI and functionality or donate something to a as great freeware app than sponsor those marketplace whores that even don't offer a trial.

This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.

Nilzor said:
Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
How about wanting to sideload applications MS doesn't want to compete with or otherwise decides is unsuitable for my delicate sensibilities? How about wanting to sideload content made by indies that can't afford MS's regulatory scheme? How about wanting to sideload content so I can get it direct from my friendly neighborhood developer, with all the incumbent benefits and freedoms thereof instead of submitting myself to the whims of a markplace's DRM mechanisms?
Of course, I'm not exactly blown away by the news. Anyone with half a brain knew once the Zunies were in charge of WinMo this was the inevitable result.

brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
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Students can get the fee waived with dreamspark. All you have to do is verify with your school e-mail. I've already done it.

ladieslova said:
I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we have another way...
quote:
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.

brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
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Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...

chaoscentral said:
Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...
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any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?

fortunz said:
I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
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Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.

havox22 said:
any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?
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Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)

TehPenguin said:
Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)
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thanks to bad im in community college, but my girl goes to sdsu so maybe i can get it in her name
nvm my school is on the list

Nilzor said:
Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.
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I agree, that's a valid point. I don't even think we were in the dark from the first day of WP7s' introduction, before this little confirmation. The moment they sent their hipster zunies out to explain how great it was, at least half of us knew they were using Apple's playbook.
I began to come to terms with migrating to android on day 1, and the stench of betrayal has mostly passed on.

Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
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There Will be alternate ways to load apps onto the device, gotten from an updated version of the same article.

My thoughts about yours

Took the following quote from http://windowsphonehacker.com/thought_why_activating_your_htc_hd2_is_a_bad_idea-01-14-11.php
Thought: Why activating your HTC HD2 is a bad idea
Hacking normally involves some shady but normally legitimate mods to software to bring to light new functions in your device. In the previous Windows Mobile era, Microsoft leaned towards a policy of ignorance towards what developers did to their devices, which brought forth cooked ROMs, unofficial WM6.5 updates, etc. Today, with Windows Phone 7, the stance has changed.
The HTC HD2, once flashed to Windows Phone 7, will not be able to sync with any Windows Live account. This is similar to Windows activation on the desktop, which requires that the software phone home and register its software key. Since the HTC HD2 is not a Windows Phone 7 device, it is not shipped with a PVK, which means it cannot activate with Microsoft's services. When we first reported yesterday about the HD2 getting live services, we were slightly skewed as to what this actually involves.
After further research, we discovered this to be more of a social hack, a type of hack involving tricking clueless employees into thinking that HTC forgot to activate your device. This calls for reason #1 why activating your phone is a bad idea. By lying to Microsoft, you are basically committing a form of fraud to obtain a license key. We are not experts, and the laws vary from country to country, but keep in mind this is not your usual stealing MP3 type of crime-Microsoft gets your name, number, email address, and device information. If Microsoft wanted to enforce this, long story short, you're in trouble.
Of course, we realize that much of the internet is not concerned about breaking their country's laws, a fact we will not have any judgement on. The second reason why you shouldn't activate your HD2 is a little more concerning for some:
Just think. If Microsoft receives hundreds of calls in 24 hours with users claiming their "HD7s" were shipped without PVKs, they're going to catch on. In fact, when reading on XDA developers, a certain post seemed troubling. A certain user writes:
I called the same # about 30 min ago. She asked me what type of phone it was. I said "schubert" then she asked me what happened to my activation code. I told her they never gave me one when i bought the phone. Then she gave me the code. I think there catching on though. She was like " We sure are selling alot of these phones in the last 24h" There gonna catch on just like with the sd cards a while back. Definitely a red flag. They will probably start asking for the serial # of the phone in the near future.
Other users reported being directed to HTC for support, or having strange comments made by Microsoft representatives. The point is this: when you hack software, the software won't bite back. When you hack humans, someone's going to figure it out, and when they do, a lot is going down.
Of course, by now, Microsoft employees have probably read the news all over the internet, so we're interested in what stance Microsoft takes on the issue. There is no way to "purchase" a PVK, unfortunately, leaving this the only option to activate your HD2 and use the Marketplace. Whatever you do is up to you, but we give our warning: Don't get caught, Don't get Microsoft to backlash on everyone else.
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So my thoughts are thinking we were going to get an upgrade from Microsoft to take our HD2's from Win mobile 6.5 to 7. They were talking about a new os way back when the HD2 came out.
Great I thought, sold my TytynII paid T-Mobile £200.00 with an 18 month contract (Ouch). And guess what NO UPGRADE, instead HTC make HD7 using the same hardware with a different case(No access to SD card), just to keep MS off their backs and hey we'll throw in a little back stand to keep you happy.
What [email protected], It's not like I can go and buy a retail, OEM or Upgrade of the new OS. So if this means tricking Microsoft into giving me a license key. tough I'll sleep well tonight.
Glad to get this rant off my chest.

I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/

We all know there gonna catch up to this, but take advantage now and get your key meanwhile this all happens.

domineus said:
I honestly bought an hd7 and I dont remember having a microsoft key anywhere...and there were some users prior to the hd2 thing that couldn't access live =/
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Every device that ships with WP7 should already be pre- or activated during the first setup, well WP7 is not being shipped with HD2, and you are basically exploiting MS activation service.
If you know of CyanogenMod Team Douche, they are basically cooking their own distribution of Android, in the earlier days they were packaging their release with Google apps, it didn't sit well with Google, and they had requested CM remove Google apps from their build tree. The reason is that every OEM who decides to issue a device running an Android flavor is getting the OS for free, but have to pay loyalty to include access to the Market.
With the recent developments around WP7 on HD2, one could easily see why MS might not be too happy about it. OEM's pay roughly $10 in licensing fees r per device to MS to put WP7 on their offerings, well HD2 now becomes a device that got it for free.
Seeing how quickly MS moved to shut down ChevronWP7 tools, and actually patching their OS in the next update to prevent unlocking with ChevronWP7 tools, they might incorporate counter measures to prevent HD2 devices running WP7 from access to their Live services, etc.
On the bright note, once it has been hacked it will only be a catch up game between MS and the enthusiasts - see Apple vs IPhone Dev Team.

good little article! i agree with it, not sure i agree with your opinion though.

Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.

vetvito said:
Nah Cyanogen Mod wasn't in trouble for that. Google was just *****ing about source code sharing. Android is free, Google Apps just need approval.
Also they pay Microsoft $15 usd per license per phone.
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agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)

vista1984 said:
agree, never heard of a loyal fee for the market..android is totally free...
MS do not help us upgrade to WP7,,then we do it ourselves...
whenever MS sell the activation code for let's say $30,,i would like to get one right away.
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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Android as an OS is free, however to provide the Market access OEM's with carriers have to pay Google.

^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
vista1984 said:
hacking the wp7 in hd2 should not affect the “Genuine” wp7 phone user (now we can say the keys are not unique to each phone.)
and the problem in the future would be the catch up game between MS and dft(?),, the situation could be more difficult than the one in IPHONE. (iphone sales is increasing. hd2 is almost out of shaves.)
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The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.

vetvito said:
^ nah, just a myth. You just have to follow Google rules and be approved for the use of Google apps. Its free. Such as the device must be able to make and receive calls in order for it to be approved for the Google market app
The hammer will come down hard on this one. People are basically screwing MS and HTC out of money.
Your screwing MS out of licensing fees and HTC out of new device sales.
I'm willing to bet MS is preparing to take action right now.
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ouch,,, i do not deny that there is no direct benefit for MS and HTC..
but when it comes to the advertisement or marketing.. we never know..
or would we hd2 users buy more app and music from marketplace?
or is it a big price gap between brand new hd2 and hd7?
..........
it really depend on how manufacturers think.
they don't need to worry about if another "hd2" case will come up,, this phone is real special one

I've been saying this since news broke of all of this.... I would not be surprised if Live accounts, this means your Xbox Gamertags, get indefinitely banned for this...

[Q] Windows live ID

So who's used their real windows live id on WP7(HD2) and who is waiting for the WP7 update to see if microsoft start banning?

MS won't ban anybody. Just do your homework. They have already stated that they are not supporting the HD2 officialy, but they don't mind ppl; installing it
And why would MS wait for the update to start banning HD2 users

maybe they are waiting just like they do on the xbox360 just before an update occurs they start banning

sjf1 said:
maybe they are waiting just like they do on the xbox360 just before an update occurs they start banning
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The only reason for banning xbox users is because of piracy, HD2 users presents profit due to ability to access the market. Do you think MS will refuse your money ? I don't think so $.$
I think you shouldn't be worried about this... I would use my real WL account if I were on your place.

they actually do loose out in the actual cost of the OS though. All OEMs pay a licence fee for each handset the OS goes on. You putting it on your HD2 subverts that cost, and therefore MS is not properly being paid for you using their OS.
So it isn't a complete "do it and MS has no problem with it".

The Gate Keeper said:
they actually do loose out in the actual cost of the OS though. All OEMs pay a licence fee for each handset the OS goes on. You putting it on your HD2 subverts that cost, and therefore MS is not properly being paid for you using their OS.
So it isn't a complete "do it and MS has no problem with it".
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Click to collapse
It's only a $15 licensing fee. I, personally, have spent well over $15 in the Marketplace on my HD7 and I suppose an HD2 user would follow suit. I think MS understands this. As long as they can put better security around XAPs, I think they're definately better off allowing it than not allowing it.
They said what they have to say to save face with OEM's but didn't sound like they minded all that much.

Actually, no where have I read that they don't mind it, and I've actually read that they're working to put a stop on the activation codes being handed out. Problem with the HD2 is that most of the time it comes unlocked with chevron, and I can guarantee you that most people who won't pay for the phone, are likely to go pirate most of the paid apps... Just my opinion there. I wouldn't doubt it if Microsoft deactivates a lot of those HD2 devices and then bans the users in the future...

you do realise that the market place forwards a lot of money to the publisher/actual developer. you pay $0.99, they may get like 10c or something. i don't know how much they take, but it isn't the whole thing otherwise devs wouldn't write for WP.
and it is also the principal. you want to use someone's work, you pay for it, not steal it. if you stole a car just because "you wanted to drive it" would the seller/manufacturer be ok with that? no. well let's make it more in line with how it works... so you have a HD2 (make this the body of the car), are you going to steal someone else's engine to make your car (HD2) go better?

Officially supported Chevron Unlock tool coming

Just got this via twitter:
http://www.winrumors.com/microsoft-...itterwp&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter
Microsoft and the ChevronWP7 unlock team are teaming up to produce a low-cost developer unlock tool.
The tool will make Windows Phone development more accessible and allow developers to avoid the typical $99 per year cost of becoming a full Windows Phone developer. “The service will require a small fee to offset costs,” says ChevronWP7. “We assure you it will be more affordable than the App Hub.” ChevronWP7 recommends that those who wish to write and publish apps immediately should sign up to the App Hub.
“One of our goals was to make Windows Phone development more accessible,” said a statement from ChevronWP7 on Friday. “Plans have recently solidified and we can now reveal a solution we’ve been working on.” The developers didn’t release too many details on the unlock tool but it’s thought that the tool will simply allow developers to unlock their devices and experiment with applications before signing up to publish apps. ChevronWP7 has launched a “labs” section on its website, where it promises more information soon.
Microsoft originally blocked the ChevronWP7 application that unlocks Windows Phone 7 devices for homebrew third-party applications. Microsoft representatives met with Rafael Rivera and Long Zheng of the ChevronWP7 team earlier this year to discuss the tool and Microsoft’s plans to support homebrew applications on Windows Phone 7. ChevronWP7 famously released their Windows Phone 7 “unlock” tool in late Novermber that allowed owners to side load home-brew applications. The tool, named ChevronWP7, used a method to trick the OS into registering itself as a Windows Phone 7 developer device with the application rather than Microsoft directly. Microsoft normally charges $99 a year for the privilege of loading developer applications. ChevronWP7 pulled the tool at Microsoft’s request just two weeks after it was originally released. It was later revealed that Windows Phone 7 devices “phone home” after around two weeks to re-lock unofficial developer devices, rendering the tool useless.
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Watch this site for more info:
http://labs.chevronwp7.com/

but the closed hole of chevron after two weeks wasn't "microsoft" per se, only till nodo did microsoft completely close the hole. Even the chevron group publicly said that...
otherwise I would be eager to try it if I didn't have a student account but 3 xaps is horrid

Why are you complaing? Its good thing microsidt are with them.
Sent from my 7 Mozart T8698 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

andoridkiller said:
Why are you complaing? Its good thing microsidt are with them.
Sent from my 7 Mozart T8698 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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no one is complaining...

If your previous post wasn't a complaint, then I'm afraid I don't understand what you were trying to say.
An officially approved, permanent unlocking solution is coming very soon. The ChevronWP7 team has already confirmed that it won't be done through the App Hub (so it won't expire in a year), and the one-time small fee will go to the Chevron team, not Microsoft, and is only being charged to cover their hard work over the past several months. They did the work, not Microsoft.
The only thing this solution won't do is allow someone to publish to the Marketplace. That will still require a paid (or student) developer license.

I think its great that MS is supporting this and look forward to kicking a few nickels over to the Chevron team for their work.

I am impressed by MS and how cool they have become.

Power in numbers
Hey Guys,
my guess is, ms turned chevron to go white hat because they try to gain momentum in the app market and therefore have to present an appealing platform for devs by keeping piracy in check and making sure those pale, hardworking guys get their bucks rolling. As far as I understand, chevrons new and official unlocker will be a paid app to drag even those devs into the boat, which are unable or unwilled to pay for a ms dev account while on the other side keeping in check, that this solution wont be a backdoor to sideload pirated apps from the market. This approach would take some amount of security integration and maybe some new kind of app-drm or how ever you may call it. Till now this is mere speculation and just my two cents to the topic

Paid unlock feels totally wrong. Especially if it's just an unlock, without a service like Cydia. I personally don't mind paying for software and services, and it's not the $99 price tag that's stopping me from going the official route, but the paperwork hassle.
But requiring payment for jailbreaking is totally unacceptable, IMO.

RoboDad said:
If your previous post wasn't a complaint, then I'm afraid I don't understand what you were trying to say.
An officially approved, permanent unlocking solution is coming very soon. The ChevronWP7 team has already confirmed that it won't be done through the App Hub (so it won't expire in a year), and the one-time small fee will go to the Chevron team, not Microsoft, and is only being charged to cover their hard work over the past several months. They did the work, not Microsoft.
The only thing this solution won't do is allow someone to publish to the Marketplace. That will still require a paid (or student) developer license.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. correction of the article which noted microsoft closed the hole 2 weeks later. They didn't until nodo [edit whoopsie misread that one]
2. I said openly I was intrigued by the idea, and even if I have a student account I'm still intrigued

With this I will can use File Manager with full access (more than documents, windows folders) for LG Optimus 7?

minep said:
With this I will can use File Manager with full access (more than documents, windows folders) for LG Optimus 7?
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I doubt it

what does evry1 here think they will charge? coz $1 to $98 is a huge range.
i would be more than happy to pay a one off fee of no more than £10.....
but then again if its a one off fee and the unlock is perpetual through all updates
i may pay a bit more..
ps. happy fathers day to all the dads

yeah but don't you have to pay to jailbreak now? IMO it's not worth it. i was hoping this would allow custom UI's and such but it just seems micro$oft found yet another way to milk the cash cow.

Great news!
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

fixxxer2008 said:
yeah but don't you have to pay to jailbreak now? IMO it's not worth it. i was hoping this would allow custom UI's and such but it just seems micro$oft found yet another way to milk the cash cow.
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Click to collapse
You should have read the thread completely. It's not Microsoft that charges the users for the tool, but the Chevron team.
I for one consider it a great possibility to pay a one time fee and then be able to write applications for my device and use them on it.

dkp1977 said:
You should have read the thread completely. It's not Microsoft that charges the users for the tool, but the Chevron team.
I for one consider it a great possibility to pay a one time fee and then be able to write applications for my device and use them on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know. That's exactly what I've been trying to tell people, but everyone around here seems so eager to jump on the extremely misguided "I've been betrayed! They're thieves!" train. I could go on about that particular topic, but what's the point. Let the bitter people enjoy their bitterness.
I'll gladly pay the one-time small fee (I think the Chevron team more than deserves it), and then I'll have a permanently unlocked phone. Even after Mango is released. Even if I have to hard reset some time in the future.

Thank You.
Thank you MS and the Chevron team for coming up with this solution. Good for you Microsoft.

sounds good but...
http://www.withinwindows.com/2011/06/20/short-windows-phone-mango-blocks-interop-services-apps/
I read this the other night and I would like to know what effect this will have on apps sideloaded with Chevronlabs.

It will most likely affect them in the exact same way it affects official app hub developer unlocked phones.
From everything they have told us so far, phones unlocked with the new Chevron service will behave exactly the same as app hub unlocked phones. The only difference will be that you won't be able to submit apps to the marketplace.
So, whatever works on an app hub unlocked phone will work on a Chevron unlocked phone, and anything that doesn't work on one, won't work on the other.

Is Nokia causing fragmentation on Windows Phone with their exclusive apps? YES

Saw this great article (http://www.wpcentral.com/nokia-causing-fragmentation-windows-phone-their-exclusive-apps) and it's worth discussion. Actually I'm pissed about what Nokia is doing. Is it by force to use a Nokia device?? If I dont, why I'm I being punnised for it by not getting some good apps?
Nokia has made moves to gain some big titles (and leverage) for their hardware. Who does it hurt? Who does it benefit and is it a good thing? I say a BIG NO, it's not a good thing. Good for Nokia but not for the OS (Windows Phone)
The real deal is, Nokia’s strategy to get these apps and games on their hardware will definetely hurt Windows Phone and I can see Nokia's Version of Windows Phone coming out real soon and it aint good.
Pissed this morning, Always Nokia, Nokia, Nokia all ove the news with exclusive good apps.....WTF

All of the applications will be timed exclusive to nokia phones. Since the applications will be arriving sooner or later to other windows phones, i see no harm is being made. That being said, i think this is nokia trying to make developers care for the windows phone platform and is helping them to develop their applications for windows. That is probably why they get a timed exclusive for their phones. In the end, every windows phone user will be benefited as more applications will arrive to the platform!

I do not see why this is a bad thing.
1. Every manufacturer has their exclusive apps. Nokia is not the first one to do this, it's what manufacturers need on WP7 to differ themselves from each other.
2. Some of these are not even proper exclusives. These are timed exclusive and will be available to other phones at a later time as well.

I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?

Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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Click to collapse
ESPN has another app, and is also available online. CNN can be pulled into any RSS reader. Are these the only examples you have?
If so, the argument is very weak.
For the apps that dont exist - would they at all anyway if not for Nokia? Would you get them any sooner if not for Nokia? At all?
I see no validity in the argument for fragmentation. App availability by region has always been there. Is China causing fragmentation in WP7 because Twitter and Facebook have been removed for any handset sold in China?

Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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Because Nokia is investing the time and money to develop these apps in the first place or at least is incenting the content owner (CNN or ESPN) to create these apps.
as eknutson described it already: If not for Nokia, you'd probably not see these apps at all or at least a lot later, when the OS has seen a wider range of adoption.
Let me also point out that some apps are not even without an alternative. Take the announced "BOX" app: Why wait for an official app, if "Boxfiles For Box.net FREE" does the same job?
If you managed to live without a paypal app this long, why not another 6 months?

hMM
i have to admit the ESPN app on Nokia is nice, I just used the switcher app in the forum.

LOL, what is all the nonsense about fragmentation?
You act like the apps won't work on other WP devices.
Nokia coughed up their own money to make the developers bring these apps to WP and you want them to then share with other OEMs?!?
OEMs who have been in the game significantly longer and have simply twiddled their thumbs and blamed MS for all WP woes while pumping out me-too devices as opposed to innovating?
BE REAL!
Thank Nokia for giving these developers the incentive to give WP the time of day.
Once they begin working on their apps, they will realize just how easy it is to code for the OS, leading to more apps in the future as opposed to the current developers having to rely on APIs that blocked all the time (Pandora, Instagram) so they too can produce their own original apps for the platform.
Plus fragmentation refers to the OS version, not the apps themselves.
And if you're so mad about it, go buy a Nokia device.

Well let's see, either Nokia gets them first by paying cash out of their own pockets and then in time shares it with the OEMs who couldn't care less about doing anything for the platform, or we don't get them at all because no OEM cares. Without Nokia, WP7 really would be a lesser OS. Don't get me wrong, I used a DVP for almost a year before the first Nokia device got sent my way, but Nokia made WP7 MUCH better.
Not only does this give us the games, it builds the framework to create future versions of the game. This is helping WP7 perpetually, now stop getting angry that you picked up a piece of recycled android hardware and be happy for all that Nokia has done for our fine OS.

Other OEM's are free to make deals with big development companies too...

But they won´t, take a look at HTC for example, they could make deal with Route 66 about navigation, for example one/two free maps, but no, they offer you trial, and then you must pay.

Excellent comments so far but I still don't think it's fair for people to benefit more than others on the same OS. In the Android world, I think it's about OS customizations and not apps benefits. All apps are acquired by everyone, the only difference being your customizations and experience.
Secondly, I know some HTC and MS workers will see this post, after all they are here with us under disguise ;-)

Yea, right, I hate everyone who owns an HTC because he has an sound enhancer...wait, I don´t, I don´t even hated LG for having DLNA app in front of many others...just think please!
Some companies put simply more effort into the platform, HTC puts it into the Android OS, Nokia is so far first OEM whose commitment can be really seen, and you want to hate just because of that? Gimmie a break.

It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?

thebobp said:
It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?
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Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?

vnvman said:
Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?
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I'm not talking about skinning (which the user can rationalize as "am i buying this look or that look?" ) but apps actually being unavailable depending on which phone you buy. Say all manufacturers start advertising very hard: "come to us; the others don't have these apps!" Unfortunately, this is negative advertising, and incoming users would start wondering "eh, why don't i just go to iOS, where i'll have all of them?" that's the essence of fragmentation.
Of course, the other alternative (that nobody else bothers to escalate) is almost as bad.
sent from my Terran Command Center.

This thread must be a wind-up. Seriously -- no one could be complaining about "fragmentation" due to one OEM deciding to bring more value to their own handsets.

Kenzibit said:
Is Nokia causing fragmentation on Windows Phone with their exclusive apps? YES
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I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
HTC can join the party or fold. By Nokia enticing developers with ITS OWN MONEY they are only expanding the Windows Phone eco system. I don't really see a time in the future where so many apps are bought up everyone has a hard time getting an app on their phone. Once a critical mass of apps are on Windows Phone more handsets will sell and developers will create apps without incentives. Heck if someone enticed epocrates to create a Windows Phone version of their software I would buy that brand of phone. That would be better than the current state of affairs (ie nothing).

sitizenx said:
I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
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Same result either way: the app is available only for Nokia (at least temporarily). If you agree the latter is fragmentation, then you'll agree the former is. Fragmentation for a good reason is still fragmentation.
Right now it's not that worrisome; what is worrisome is if the others happen to respond in kind. Then we'll really have fragmentation of apps - "such and such is available only on HTC Windows Phone, such and such only on Samsung Windows Phone, and such and such only on Nokia".

That's not "fragmentation," it's "exclusivity."
Different issue.