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My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
Your criticism is wellcomed here. But I gonna criticize your criticism.
CDMA Support will come. 6months after the release of the GSM version. The Iphone is huge and is only on one carrier, a gsm carrier at that, did CMDA hurt it. The first US Android device was the Tmobile G1. It was the only Android device for a while, and again launched on a GSM carrier, but look Android is huge now.. Also the main market MS is aiming at is the Euro/Asia Market which is mostly GSM. So you think about smart move or not?
It cost money? The top selling Android phones are all premium devices. They're sold at $199 on each carrier. If price is a bad, thing how did the Iphone become so popular? Those specs MS chose are to keep a quality control on the hardware so devs can fully utilitize the hardware. If MS used lower specs than devs would have to support the least common denominator and the app won't be as optimized.
Yes WM6.5 wasn't successful, but there are reasons behind that fragmentation and LOW SPECS. The kin was a failure from the beginning since it took away MS resource and time away from WP7. WM6.5 and the Kin didn't have the features that WP7 has, nor did they have the dev support that WP7 is receiving which is what will make it successful.
juliusaugustus said:
My reasons why I think Windows Phone 7 fail. I'm not here to profess my love for Apple, Google, Linux, Open Source or Nokia. Rather I'm here to present simple facts and problems that could be bad for the platform.
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
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My thought is don't judge a thing before it is released...
For your CDMA support point, did Iphone and Android release CDMA phone when they are launched. NO, why? This a basic business or economic knowledge, since WP7 is new product and GSM still the priority. Microsoft has to see how consumers respond to their concept, CDMA definitely will be supported soon.
Yeah...Of course,it cost money, but this is depends how the manufacturers deal with Microsoft. For example, Microsoft might offer a very low price to manufacturers to use their operating system or Manufacturer foresee the future vale of WP7. Furthermore, these big companies got many financial analyzers.This is what you no need worry about it.Lastly, What consumers want to see is the actual price of the handset and the actual values it brought to us.
Regarding the low end market, of course, Microsoft is conducting product-differentiation strategy, thats why they did'n aim the low end market. Furthermore, the required hardwares are to ensure to user experiences. For example, Comparing HTC Tattoo and HTC evo. If you bought Tattoo, most users definitely will blame the android OS but not the hardwares, because not everyone in the world is tech-geek. In contrast, the handset you bought is HTC evo, you definitely will feel that is awesome, no laggy,smooth, fast, great resolution.
Regarding the Microsoft Kin, what I predict is, but not confirmed, Microsoft try to observe the consumer spending behaviour and handphone demand, but not try to earn the profit. For instance, the advertisement fees on KIN, I can say it is extremely low. Furthermore, KIN just open for US market. Lastly, Microsoft can cut down the production of this phone so fast and quick with minimal lost. So, you can see that maybe they already plan to cut down the procution at the beginning. And they are preparing something big at the backstage...which is WP7...
When you comparing WM6 and WP7 is completely wrong, because this two OSes are completely different, in term of UI, functionalities and etc.....Everyone knows that the WM6 market share is extremely low now. In my opinion, this is what Microsoft done wrong, back in few years ago, WM6 still dominate the Smartphone market so called monopoly, and Microsoft didn't realised the threat of new entrants such as android and iOS. In addition, Microsoft focused more on PC OS.
Lastly, I just hope don't judge something before you try or use...
Cheers...
you know there is life outside USA and it's 95% GSM network running world out there...
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
amb9800 said:
I think more than the licensing fees and hardware limitations, WP7 will be capped by a messaging and features challenge.
How do you convince the average smartphone user to get a WP7 device instead of an iPhone or Android handset? WP7's UI is different, but it's not necessarily compelling. WP7 might have integrated FB status updates in the People hub, but for full FB functions, you'd have to have an FB app anyway. I'm skeptical that people will be convinced of the alleged "at a glance" experience of WP7 (the WM6 Today screen, for that matter, gave much more info at a glance but had to be hidden by every OEM).
Xbox Live score/achievement integration is the only real differentiator, but that only matters to Xbox gamers, and even when it comes to gaming, the iPhone has WP7 handily beat with several games that have real-time local + online multiplayer support (something WP7 does not support).
Gaming graphics are not going to be a big one either, as the iPhone has dozens of first-rate 3D games, and given that all first-gen WP7 devices will have the aging first-gen Snapdragon chip (MSM8250 @ 1 GHz), the iPhone 3GS, 4, and many Android devices have more powerful GPUs in any case.
Zune integration doesn't appeal to average users (just look at Zune's market share). Average consumers will see WP7 as being similar to Android in that it doesn't sync with iTunes. The alternative may be there (Zune for WP7, Amazon and others for Android), but from an initial purchase standpoint, they're thinking about iTunes or no iTunes.
WP7 has no killer app on the business front either, with such a limited Office experience (Word/Excel/etc. can make only rudimentary changes to documents, compared to much richer 3rd party editing apps on the iPhone), no Outlook sync support (for offices that don't use Exchange), and an Exchange ActiveSync experience not terribly different from the iPhone's or Android's. I think MS' marketing push highlighting Xbox Live integration will also hurt WP7 on the business credibility front.
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For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software herehttp://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
Even, you didn't own a ZUNE, you can use it too. Now ZUNE player already my default music and movie player. It's great and awesome, especially finding album arts, great graphic and etc...Furthermore, what I like is I can play any song in my PC without convert or create a new datastore to store the converted music...and ITUNES did this.omg, it wastes my hard drive spaces.About the market share, same situation again...ZUNE is just for sales in US market. Therefore, can't compare it with itunes store....
However, I might be wrong...Just stay tuned...WP7 gonna launch in this month...
Cheers...
sylau90 said:
For the game on windows phone 7,i never worry about this...please go over here and have a lookhttp://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/phone/default.htm...XBOX live integration is not only for XBOX anymore. What Microsoft try to do is create a platform for gamers, like what has bee appeared in iphone,GAME CENTRE and PLUS+...
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But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
sylau90 said:
I think ZUNE integration would be a killer...try the ZUNE software here http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/software/download/default.htm
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Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
amb9800 said:
But that's precisely the problem. What does WP7 offer casual phone gamers that the iPhone doesn't? The iPhone has a large existing game library, multiplayer support, more powerful graphics hardware than all WP7 launch phones, and now even some of the score/achievement tracking that Xbox Live offers.
Sure, the Zune service and client are nice, but they haven't been compelling enough to gain any real market share in the last few years. Now that Apple has opened up the App Store a bit, several other streaming / subscription services are now available on the iPhone as well.
I'm not saying WP7 won't offer a nice media and gaming experience-- it's just that in order to succeed, MS needs to present a clear and compelling reason people should buy WP7 phones.
The iPhone delivers the smoothest phone UI, huge app library, solid browsing experience, seamless media experience, and simplicity. Android offers choice of form factor and carrier, great integration with Google services (with lots of people use), and almost-WM6-like openness while still offering a smooth user experience).
What does WP7 bring to the table that the iPhone and Android don't?
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Yeah, actually, personally I think that Apple and android marketing strategies are far more strong than Microsoft. Furthermore, What I like Apple provided is the frequency of operating system updates. Therefore, we no need to change the handset frequently in order to get the latest updates or functionalities.
However, the frequency of windows phone 7 updates are unknown, nobody knows. However,in here I can say that. Apple, Microsoft and Android using totally different strategies. Since Microsoft didn't manufature their own handsets, they just sell OS to manaufacturers. Therefore, it's unlikely they will provide the update very often. However for Apple,they do manufacture their own handsets, therefore they can focus more on software updates and applications, because all the profit will just go into their pockets.
What Microsoft prepared are the new LIVE TILES UI which I think is the success part, because currently I'm using latest windows live messenger and and zune software. they are awesome.
However, now everyone is enjoying the Apple and Android banquet...let's see what cuisines Microsoft prepared for us...By the way, Dell Lightning with WP7 is a good and sexy device, gonna get one if there is one.
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
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So does iOS, and that's doing well. Also CDMA will come in time.
juliusaugustus said:
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
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It's not all that expensive...it's $10 dollars that you pass onto the user anyway. Instead of your phone costing 200-300 dollars to manufacture it costs +10 dollars more. The final price for a phone is 500-600...10 dollars more is hardly something to think about.
Also you have to pay for desktop windows, or pay a very high preimum for OSX + hardware....they're both doing better than linux in the PC world.
juliusaugustus said:
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
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So? that hasn't hurt iOS...and this is something that has to do with time...hardware costs become cheaper over time, so eventually these hardware requirements will become cheap to manufacture and it will enter the low end market.
juliusaugustus said:
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
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Windows Mobile lost market share because they didn't update it as frequently as they should...then they decided to make a paradigm shift and people slowly abandoned windows mobile since there was no future to the OS.
Also, WM still has a decent market share. It's 6-8% in the states and in the teens in Europe according to some recent reports.
juliusaugustus said:
I don't mean to cause hate I was just giving Windows Phone 7 valid criticism. Please leave your thoughts down below.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one has a crystal ball.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
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To some degree...I like widgets in theory, but in practice I always disable them if a phone OS allows me to and go to something more unified like Titanium. The reason I dislike widgets is that there are no design guidelines for them generally so it makes your start page look like crap. Live tiles are widgets done right imo.
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
vetvito said:
Live tile is basically a Android widget.
Hubs is where WP7 will shine, can't wait to see 3rd party hubs.
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Click to collapse
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Tom Servo said:
How about you Americans ditch that way outdated technology? There's absolutely no merit apart from device-based tie-in to a provider.
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Actually, CDMA is superior in almost any aspect. UMTS (3G) has much more in common with CDMA than with GSM.
sylau90 said:
where can I download live tile widget for android?can you give me the name?wanna give it a try...
yea,the hubs....and cloud-based service.you are able to sync almost everything to skydrive.
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Huh, pick one?
vetvito said:
Huh, pick one?
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Sorry,just now I didn't read your sentence clearly. I thought you said there are some widgets work like live tiles...sorry...haha
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
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To Me that would would be the defination of Apple and Steve Jobs...
Windows Phone 7 lacks CDMA support: Why? So your going to tell many of the thousands of Verizon Wireless, Sprint, US Cellular Users, MetroPCs cellphone users well I'm glad you were excited about Windows Phone 7 but sorry no handset for you.
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Click to collapse
Well, CDMA support has been confirmed for early 2011. GSM is what over 90% of the world uses so GSM is coming first.
It Cost's Money: Why would a phone manufacturer pay to use a platform that is very immature, when you could easily make a device that has a mature platform like Android or Symbian without paying a licensing to use the OS.
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This platform would be chosen over both of those because it's an OS that has that "it just works" factor that everyone loves about the iPhone. It's smooth, has great games, zune, office, etc...
Hardware Requirements prevent it from reaching low end markets: Well requiring basic thing like Accelerometer with compass, ambient light sensor, proximity sensor, 5mp camera, shutterbutton, and Assisted GPS etc is perfectly acceptable but requiring a 1ghz processor will raise hardware costs and will prevent low end and midrange phone users from buying Windows Phone 7 devices.
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This is a great thing since it means everyone will be able to run the OS and games smoothly. Prices will drop as hardware matures. $199 is pretty standard for those specs and it's a price many are willing to pay.
Windows Mobile 6.5 has little marketshare and the Microsoft Kin Was a Huge Failure: Why would smarthphone manufacturers want to create a phone with Windows Phone 7 when Windows Mobile 6.5 in its current form has much less then competitors 6-8 percent and the failure of the Microsoft shows has little understanding of the mobile marketplace.
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Both have almost nothing to do with Windows Phone. Kin was a huge failure for two reasons IMO, it had to have a data plan, and it lacked apps and games. Manufacturers are already dropping Symbian and Windows Mobile 6.5 isn't supported my MS anymore. Manufacturers are behind WP7 because it's a complete refresh. It's different and looks fun.
jonscapri said:
I'm still shaking the wait and see approach. MS hasn't done much to impress me. Zune player is a skinned windows media player with one or two neat plugins.
If MS follows suit it'll be another great idea poorly executed. Just look at windows for the pc.
MS's big problem is they charge you for crap that is full of security holes, buggy, not up to par in general. Then they expect you to just deal or con you into thinking that it's the cream of the crop when it's really just a polished turd.
Sent from my FroyoEris using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Zune Player is a bit more than a skinned WMP. It has themes, marketplace, subscriptions service, and it has more features like SmartDJ. Windows 7 is a great OS. I haven't had any problems with performance or security at all.
See the linked article http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/26/windows_phone_7_sales/
WP7 doesn't appear to be doing very well. So many people want this to fail it amazes me!
That's truly sad. I'm actually a bit disappointed with the advertisements from Microsoft. Sure, the ads are broad casted a lot but there aren't any catchy ones like the iPod silhouettes and what not. MS needs to step it up when it comes to appealing to consumers through ads otherwise it'll be hard to dent the Androids hold over the smartphone marketshare.
Same here in France, with this article from a famous french magazine LE POINT: "What's wrong with WP7" (google translation)
http://translate.google.fr/translat...-qui-cloche-22-11-2010-1265610_47.php&act=url
Articles underlines some missing features when readers in the comments mainly insist on:
- the fact that WP7 is too locked, especially compared to Android
- WP7 is not designed for business
I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!
I don't have a magic boll but I think that all of this will change in a couple of months
adesonic said:
I guess that if it doesn't do well, those of us who have a wp7 device are going to be part of a pretty exclusive club! Still there is time yet, if MS produce the updates which add the missing features that all the naysayers continually whinge about and go up a gear on their marketing campaign WP7 will fly - it is too good a product not to!
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It is reported that MS is in it for the win. I can only believe such criticisms will spur MS on to ever higher efforts. I agree, too, that most of the criticisms are about the lacking features. This will change when those features are added. I know I love the system but almost gave up on it...I was livid actually...when I saw it didn't have common voice nav. The copy & paste and multitasking, I was aware of it not having. But the voice nav, I wasn't aware of. It rocked me badly. I can only imagine what the general, unknowing, public might be feeling about the system...without all of these features.
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.
nizzon said:
HTC deserve to fail for their mediocre WP7 devices. MS doesnt, but sadly they are depending on these hardwaremanufaturers.
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please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?
The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.
twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
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the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine
WP7 is too important for Microsoft for them to give up on it. It's their only mobile platform that ties all of their online services together. If they want to compete with Google WP7 has to succeed. Microsoft can't afford for to let everyone use an Android phone with cloud services and search services all going to Google.
For those that are worried about bad press remember people said the same thing about the xbox when it came out and it's been a success despite having a horrible track record with hardware failures.
WP7 is a long term strategy for Microsoft. Poor sales in the beginning is hardly anything to worry about it.
lumpaywk said:
the hd2 was never in line for it MS has always said that this is a stupid argument the hd7 may have similar specs but the hd7 is a vast improvment in design
Everyone is always bashing MS but that's not stopped them they new that the haters would come but so to are the updates and tbh if less ppl have one then the more ppl there are who will be amazed when they see mine
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vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!
There is no vast improvement in design but the simple answer is the hd2 doesn't meet the button requirements for WP7. There's no exceptions to the rules Microsoft has laid out.
twisted89 said:
vast improvement in design? how exactly? they moved a couple of buttons around!
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ceesheim said:
please tell me what is wrong with my hd7 ?
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Maybe nothing wrong with yours, but I'm on my 4th one. The first one had data reception problems. The second one had dead pixels all over the screen and at the perfect angle you could see scuff marks on the screen. The third one had trash under the screen, on top of the actual LCD. There were tiny specks of something on it.
I always thought my HD2 was exceptional for quality, and it is. But I have not had fortune with HTC's latest offerings.
adesonic said:
Seems the press are already writing off WP7
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Them again. And how many journalists are experts in anything?
The reports are just the typical anti-ms nonsense from the media...here in Canada it's hard to find the Samsung focus...the US launched with far fewer devices than demand.
MS is in for the long road...let's remember android for the first 2 years...
vangrieg said:
The press has pretty much written off Microsoft as a whole already. They need somebody to bark at and somebody to adore, if they aren't opinionated nobody will read their stuff.
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It's getting to the stage where the Microsoft-bashing is beyond the joke.
Journos and many other people in the media are Apple supporters simply because it's the platform on which they create, design and produce their content. This is mostly due to the fact that Microsoft were years behind MacOS in regards to graphic design and publication software in the 90s. Apple is still deeply encroached, despite the fact that Windows has since caught up with, and arguably overtaken, Apple's ability in that industry.
However, the other 99% of the world is very happily using Microsoft products. I don't use Office because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than any comparable product. I don't use Windows 7 because I have to; I use it because, to me, it's a damn sight better than MacOS or any other flavour of Unix / Linux. And I've started using Windows Phone 7 because, to me, it's a damn sight better than WM 6.5, Apple iOS, Android, Blackberry or any of the others out there at the moment.
You really just need two things for WP7 to succeed; it needs to be good, and it needs to be relentlessly promoted.
Microsoft have relentlessly promoted terrible products in the past, and they have naturally failed (case in point: Microsoft Bob). However, they relentlessly promoted XBOX for years as well, even when in the beginning it was a less-than-strong platform. But it's just as well they did, because now it's bloody brilliant and we have new technologies like Kinect to play with.
At the end of the day, the great news here is that WP7 is actually good; and since the WP7 platform is the future home of Microsoft's silverlight technology, and a main branch of their XBOX development, you can be sure as hell they will keep promoting it until it succeeds.
twisted89 said:
I think for the sole reason of creating the hd7 and not allowing a hd2 upgrade they deserve to fail.
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That was a pretty crappy move, but that is more of an HTC crime, not MSFT.
The new WP7 is a good platform, but only in some ways.
MS does make a 'brand-new' OS, however, since its launch, there are these 2 questions from the consumers:
1) From the current iOS and Android users: 'Its functions is almost the same, but my phone(iphone) display is much prettier and more apps, why should I change?'
2) From the current WM users: 'Geez, lots of functions that we like are now gone, no file explorer, no tethering, no mass storage mode, no copy&paste, can't remove storage-card, have to have a live-ID, etc etc.... I might as well just wait til the first update and see....'
The phone manufacturers has invested tons of money to make up phones for WM7, however, the response from the market is nothing close to expectation, if there's no breakthrough on the up coming update from MS, manufacturers like HTC and samsung might also hold on to the WM7 platform too.
To write off a product, you don't need the press, or experts, the consumer market does.
What can you say about this rumor?
i think its true since google confirms it..
lol, looks like they are scared.
Oh come on. Let's be reasonable here. One dude at Google making a quote does not confirm anything. It's irresponsible to expect that he has any more information on the matter than we do.
The idea seems reasonable, but it also seems crazy for Nokia to go from being in total control of the entire platform to only having control over hardware, with Microsoft being so strict about software customization. I think it benefits Microsoft more than Nokia to do this unless Microsoft is paying Nokia to do it, which also seems crazy.
well i guess its true..
simple reason:
they have to make a choise:
1. android (linux)
2. iOS (guess not possible, osx)
3. WP7 (windows)
4. make new one
now which one does look the most like its still modern in 5 years without complete UI redesign. windows phone 7
now with all the power in cellphones
they are clearly mobile pc's
you need a major development team to keep the customers satisfied.
see windows has 80% of global traffic, you can see the power of microsoft there. im sure windows phone will be the most used mobile phone os in lets say 4-8 years.
zune is awesome, once you know it you will never want itunes again.
and sorry i went offtopic, but nokia does make the right choise if they get wp7 on their mobiles. look at our mobile phones as "window" into the digital world. microsoft just does that. in and out and back to life
FishFaceMcGee said:
Oh come on. Let's be reasonable here. One dude at Google making a quote does not confirm anything. It's irresponsible to expect that he has any more information on the matter than we do.
The idea seems reasonable, but it also seems crazy for Nokia to go from being in total control of the entire platform to only having control over hardware, with Microsoft being so strict about software customization. I think it benefits Microsoft more than Nokia to do this unless Microsoft is paying Nokia to do it, which also seems crazy.
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im just playing when i said "confirm", anyway it looks so true.
I think that Nokia is doing this because in final step the will come back to MeeGo.
MeeGo is a big chance for Nokia, BMW or Asus want to cooperate with Nokia because of MeeGo.
webwalk® said:
well i guess its true..
see windows has 80% of global traffic, you can see the power of microsoft there. im sure windows phone will be the most used mobile phone os in lets say 4-8 years.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you're talking about here with the 80% traffic.
mmm, what is going to suddenly drive the TENS OF MILLIONS of iphone users to wp7 ?
android is growing, rim is dying, and wp7 has yet to show -any- official numbers. please correct me here, and provide a source.
nokia can make awesome hardware, why should they limit themselves to one user base ? nokia wants to sell as many devices as vpossible, beit symbian, android, wp7, wm6.5, or anything. they don't care so long as it sells.
for once microsoft has to prove and win customers, instead of being able to force hardware suppliers to install their os.
If Nokia decides to come on board, at least that would mean good things for lots of the markets where WP7 is crippled. I doubt Nokia would hop on a platform that lacks half of its functionality in their major markets.
maybe they can make it multi-task
swang wang wang.. .
trollbait
ohgood said:
I'm not sure what you're talking about here with the 80% traffic.
mmm, what is going to suddenly drive the TENS OF MILLIONS of iphone users to wp7 ?
android is growing, rim is dying, and wp7 has yet to show -any- official numbers. please correct me here, and provide a source.
nokia can make awesome hardware, why should they limit themselves to one user base ? nokia wants to sell as many devices as vpossible, beit symbian, android, wp7, wm6.5, or anything. they don't care so long as it sells.
for once microsoft has to prove and win customers, instead of being able to force hardware suppliers to install their os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
80% traffic, of the world, of all computers in the world.
even if its forced. its the force. windows is home os#1 by choise.
check this engadget traffic report
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/02/ios-now-accounts-for-2-of-global-web-browsing-traffic-chrome-r/
well this is based on data by http://www.netmarketshare.com dont know how they get their infos...
now who is driving iphone users to wp7..
good point, but its simple again, apple will do themself
its simple math .. iphone 1 was 1000€ on release day
that was around 4 years ago. since then every year a new iphone arrived.
apple will keep this up. but now, 4 years later your iphone wont receive any more updates, you cant use the software from appstore and you are forced to buy a new phone. you think twice if you spend a fortune on that again.
this is when wp7 kicks in. its not big now, but it will be in 2 years. people dont know it yet, but everyone i showed my phone loved it. people who used iphone for some years get tiered of iOS. and people are never satisfied, they always want something new.
another point is, there is only 1 (one) iphone .. but already now plenty of wp7 devices. now people trust in nokia for quality phones. they trust in mircosoft for quality software. im not saying they will only produce wp7 devices, but would be stupid if they wouldnt do even 1.
android, well, yeah its awesome, but not for average people. people who love smartphones in general all got a droid, but what about the people still rocking sony erricson feature phones, people with not much general interrest in computers or phones.
and i dont think wp7 has to proove anymore...
if you take a look at the wishlist:
The Windows Phone 7 Feature Request & Suggestion Thread Part 4
http://social.answers.microsoft.com...7/thread/90369a37-02fa-4e92-b0f6-71584a9cadd5
there is not much left...
What do you think IOS wont change? Do you think it will just stay the same? What about any of the other competitors? Will they not grow?
People said they loved Zune years ago, has it overtaken anything?
Nice assumption, but its just that, and nothing realistic about it.
I would not mind nokia hw and wp7 software at all. It could be the best of both worlds plus nokia has been inching toward winmo for a while
let's be real they have and nokia has market presence that can improve microsoft awareness internationally. It's actually a good idea if executed right
this will be great! with Nokia's reach in a ton of countries, this could potenially spread WP7 around the globe and not just on select countries
Bloomberg reports its all but a done deal
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-02-09/nokia-is-said-to-be-near-partnership-with-microsoft.html
I would love to see nokia and microsoft put an offline navigation software on the phone..
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Nokia build quality and engineering combined with WP7(+) software could be something really awesome. Symbian has been useless and outdated for ages, last above-average thing to come out from Nokia was E51 and that was back in 2007...
Actually, all these sources only speak about some "partnership". It doesn't necessarily mean Nokia phones running WP7.
vangrieg said:
Actually, all these sources only speak about some "partnership". It doesn't necessarily mean Nokia phones running WP7.
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Yeah but let's be honest here, the only thing Nokia has to offer is it's hardware - it's platform is all but irrelevant at this point. So unless Microsoft has been working on a WP7 deal, it has been wasting valuable time it should have been using to roll out a new update .
Sent from my GT-I9000M
radeon_x said:
Yeah but let's be honest here, the only thing Nokia has to offer is it's hardware - it's platform is all but irrelevant at this point.
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Well the question is - does Nokia see it this way? When you listen to SE folks they all go out of their way bragging how their software makes Android so much better and how they add so much value and so on. This is stupid, but that's their official stance.
vangrieg said:
Well the question is - does Nokia see it this way?
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Based on the leaked memo from the new CEO I would say yes
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/08/nokia-ceo-stephen-elop-rallies-troops-in-brutally-honest-burnin/
Sent from my GT-I9000M
It is now official
Go to http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/11/nokia_microsoft_smartphone_agreement/
All the detail is there. We may at least see Windows Phones with decent cameras now, imaging was always a Nokia strongpoint so I understand
Much has been made of the Windows Phone slow start with maybe less that 2 million units in the hands of consumers. However I think that the recent predictions by Gartner, IDC etc... of about 20% by 2015 might be a little low. I think by 2015 Android and Windows Phone will have parity in software features, hardware and the number of OEM`s supporting them.
I also think the Nokia relationship definately pushes them to over 30% when you consider Nokia`s dominance in growing economies like China, India, Russia, Latin America and Africa. Its also clear how much Nokia needs windows phone to defend these markets against Android..
India and China alone are expected to see their middle class grow 10 fold by 2025. India currently has a middle class population of about 50 million people..
Its definately not just about whats happening in the North America or Western Europe!!!
This graphic tells the current state of play worldwide...
http://rww.readwriteweb.netdna-cdn....02/global-os-marketshare-feb.2011-o-27904.php
We'll see how well WP7 and Nokia really work together. From what we know, Bing Maps will get stuff from Ovi Maps (or be replaced by Ovi Maps?) and a Nokia App store will be added on top of the Windows Phone Marketplace. This might be nice for Nokia but I don't know if other phone makers will like this.
Also Nokia will not use WP7 in its current form. What that means is not very clear, but the start screen with all the pinned apps and stuff might not be there on nokia phones.
^ last I read, Nokia wont be doing any changes to the OS.
Yeah that's what I read some time ago which actually didn't bother me:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/11/nokia-will-be-able-to-customize-everything-in-windows-phone-7/
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
slimshady322 said:
But then a few days ago this:
http://www.liveside.net/2011/04/29/will-nokia-phones-use-metro/
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Click to collapse
That article is very misleading. The part they claim to be a translated quote of Öistämö's comments was not that at all. It was a quote of a blog's interpretation of the comment that "Nokia will not adopt Windows Phone environment as it is today". Considering how vague that comment is, it could be taken many ways.
Besides, if Microsoft were to allow Nokia to make such fundamental UI changes, after forbidding HTC from doing the same, it could destroy their relationship with their other manufacturers.
Nokia will be adding things like better camera app, Navtek Data/ovi maps into the whole wp7 system, the OVI store, and differentiating itself with its hardware. The general OS will be untouched as to provide the consistent user experience across devices MS is looking for.
I personally cannot wait for the high end Nokia Windows Phones. And I believe they will also force the other OEM's to make better hardware as well to compete.
If nokia wont change anything on wp7 they will fail. Symbian maybe outdated and old but it has lots of nice features. Nokia fanboys may find wp7 lacking on every aspect. And what about the low-end phones from nokia? Will it too have wp7 on it. Nokia definitely made a wrong choice here. Nokia dominates on the Massess.
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
ebzrascal said:
Nokia will be using WP7 for the low end after 2012 and WP8 for the high end devices... I think they will introduce new form factors also...
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
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Click to collapse
ewww, this will not sit well with people....
remember how pissed people were when they found they needed to buy vista ultimate office wildcard edition for xyz featureset ?
ok, now compound that pissed off consumer with a 2 year contract, and having to upgrade a piece of hardware ($600 off contract, no upgrade eligiblilty) to get xyz featureset...
I predict some pissed folks !
this is where apple got it right, and ms should have learned already:
same phone, just more storage
android?
a billion phones + 1 click root = any software you ever wanted
There's no way to predict anything for 2015 with any reliability. The best you can do is take current factors and extrapolate. Currently phones have very short lives (1-2 years in the hands of a customer), and without loyalty market shares change dramatically very fast. There's nothing that prevents users from switching - "apps" are too cheap to be a real barrier, and on Android they don't even serve this purpose because so many are free.
So there's brands and distribution power. Arguably, the only real smartphone brand is owned by Apple. Everything else is up in the air.
That being said, WP7 needs dozens of phones, and not just from Nokia, to have a sizable market.
Its also interesting to see what Apple is going to do with that billion dollar datacentre.
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
ebzrascal said:
The only companies in this market with Brand Loyalty is RIM, APPLE and Nokia....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Thats why Nokia is huge for WP7 especially in the emerging markets where their lead is considerable and economic growth is much higher than the North America and Western Europe.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
If Nokia raises the profile of Windows Phone then HTC, Samsung and LG will all benifit. It will be interesting to see if Sony Ericssron and Motorola make devices in future if all goes as predicted...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
N8ter said:
Symbian has brand loyalty, not Nokia. If SE would start putting out Symbian phones with their hardware designs, good screens, and their good cameras, I bet a lot of people who are Symbian loyalists would go there, but Sony dumped Symbian too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree Nokia has the Brand loyalty not Symbian at least with the average customer... Nokia stands for Reliabilty and Quality in hardware and optics.
N8ter said:
That's assuming most of those people will accept the functionality disparity and go with WP7 as opposed to moving to devices from RIM or Android devices. Those forcases are all very ambitious. I don't think they will play out as well as peopel think it would. Most of them assumed like 90 to 100% of Nokia's current customers will go from Symbian to WP7, which I simply don't see happening...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When Nokia devices arrive with Mango built in there will be no functionality disparity!!! between WP7 and RIM/ANDROID/IOS
N8ter said:
If Nokia's pricing for WP7 handsets in this part of the world is the same as their high end Symbian phone prices, they will still lose badly here to HTC/Samsung/LG/Sony/etc. because price matters.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just checked Expansys and the N8 is selling for 400ukp and the E72 250ukp which is definately comparible to Android and Blackberry...
N8ter said:
Microsoft is giving Nokia a competitive edge over the other manufacturers at the moment.
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Click to collapse
Well they are giving WP7 a huge push in distribution to India, China, Russia, Latin America and African markets. China already has a smartphone market which half the size of the US market and its exected to grow rapidly. They are also bring functionality to Windows Phone like OVI Maps and Navigation.
N8ter said:
But a manufacturer like Samsung has the capacity to make better phones than Nokia. Microsoft really limited Samsung WRT the Focus (no Hummingbird (wildly superior to 1st gen snapdragons - ESP the GPU), and it seems like the sound hardware isn't as good as the Galaxy S phones, either). Using old hardware helps manufacturers like Nokia and HTC who are trying to maximize margins, but it hurts manufacturers like Samsung who have their own, better, hardware they could use...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would expect support for Hummingbird, Tegra 3 etc to come later when Windows Phone is established and are selling hundreds of millions of devices
N8ter said:
If they don't let up soon the other manufacturers may just drop it and concentrate on Android (except HTC, they'll just use an old blueprint and put a new OS on it and call it a day).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would the OEM`s want to depend soley on Android ?? Eventually I see Motorola and especially Sony Ericsson making Windows Phones probably in late 2012...
Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
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No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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Click to collapse
I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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Click to collapse
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
Click to expand...
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Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
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So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
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OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
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A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
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No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
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It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
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Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.
Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
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XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...
N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
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windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...
N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
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Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
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Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
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Why should I be pissed, sorry?
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).
Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!
vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
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Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,