With the amount of editing and new versions of ROM's and applications, and people's suggestions, it takes going 39 pages deep into a thread to get any good info, or a download.
For Example, Kavana's thread, Rickwyatt's thread....my god. Is it possible to sticky JUST the latest version of ROM's, applications, etc.
So many versions of everyone's ROM, it's hard for the newer people (such as myself) to know wtf ROM to get, and to know if they're inclusive to updates from the previous version.
I installed Kavana's lastest ROM a few weeks ago, but I like some of the updates that Rickwyatt has done, but it's so hard to understand the progression of versions. Also Rickwyatt's threat makes my eyes bleed with all the ascii seperating the versions. A FINAL version would be nice, and a list of what it includes.
Another sticky with add-on links or attachments would be key as well. I think keeping ROMs and apps down to a few threads would be a lot easier for people who are new to flashing to understand.
I wish we had a moderator in this forum, that actually took care of these things, but it doesn't look like one exists.
d0m1n0 said:
With the amount of editing and new versions of ROM's and applications, and people's suggestions, it takes going 39 pages deep into a thread to get any good info, or a download.
For Example, Kavana's thread, Rickwyatt's thread....my god. Is it possible to sticky JUST the latest version of ROM's, applications, etc.
So many versions of everyone's ROM, it's hard for the newer people (such as myself) to know wtf ROM to get, and to know if they're inclusive to updates from the previous version.
I installed Kavana's lastest ROM a few weeks ago, but I like some of the updates that Rickwyatt has done, but it's so hard to understand the progression of versions. Also Rickwyatt's threat makes my eyes bleed with all the ascii seperating the versions. A FINAL version would be nice, and a list of what it includes.
Another sticky with add-on links or attachments would be key as well. I think keeping ROMs and apps down to a few threads would be a lot easier for people who are new to flashing to understand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're absolutely right. Doing so would eliminate a lot of the redundant questions that continue to be asked. By the way, it bothers me when noobs get pounced on because they ask questions that have already been covered. Unless they've been lurking for weeks prior to registering--how are they to know that their issues have already been adressed several times before?! I'm by no means an expert...but I am a tad more knowledgeable now than I was when I first logged on here. I STILL have "noobish" questions here and there! Some are VERRRRRY NOOBISH! lol But I would hope that someone would lend a hand to help me out from time to time. ((exhaling)) Whew...
I agree with everything that what just said. I am new and I find it hard to search for anything because I don't know what's new or updating. I started a thread for help and no one seems to wanna help.
I've been here for a while now, I just don't post as much, only if necessary and mind you, getting my thread sticked - The Upgrade from Windows 5 to 6 Guide was a mission. I even asked to be the moderator for this forum because I really have a good idea as to where what can go, Me & OrganicM/Ricky/Kavana/RIPSyntaxx are some of the members I can think of as moderators. I asked many times to be the moderator but I didn't even get a reply to know if I was selected or not.
If I'm elected as the moderator, I'll organize everything as soon as possible and delete threads that are not needed and taking space for no reason. I'll do it accordingly
1) Guides for Upgrading/Solution to Errors etc
2) SIM/CID/APP Unlock
3) ROMS
4) Registry Hacks/Tweaks
5) Apps
6) Backgrounds/Themes
7) Games
6) Suggestions
7) Etc
- That's just a quick rough format but you get the drill
and let me tell you something, I completely agree even with whatever that's been said, even though I'm an old member - I had to dig through threads to even find stuff that's worth it for me, for example - registry tweaks for OldSaps Favorites to work - cmon now :S
I had to search and search - so why not make it easier for all newb's and old members so everythings organized and in one place??
Can some moderator help us out? In the smartphone section, we have the most Excalibur users compared to other phones. I'm not putting anyone down but there's many threads compared to others.
Why not make 3 moderators for each section? If you guys think I'm good enough to be a moderator, I don't mind. I'd be happy to moderate - If not me, no problem - Anyone senior who knows the subject and knows what to do to keep this thread clean !
Please Help Us, Moderators !
lukybandit said:
I've been here for a while now, I just don't post as much, only if necessary and mind you, getting my thread sticked - The Upgrade from Windows 5 to 6 Guide was a mission. I even asked to be the moderator for this forum because I really have a good idea as to where what can go, Me & OrganicM/Ricky/Kavana/RIPSyntaxx are some of the members I can think of as moderators. I asked many times to be the moderator but I didn't even get a reply to know if I was selected or not.
If I'm elected as the moderator, I'll organize everything as soon as possible and delete threads that are not needed and taking space for no reason. I'll do it accordingly
1) Guides for Upgrading/Solution to Errors etc
2) SIM/CID/APP Unlock
3) ROMS
4) Registry Hacks/Tweaks
5) Apps
6) Backgrounds/Themes
7) Games
6) Suggestions
7) Etc
- That's just a quick rough format but you get the drill
and let me tell you something, I completely agree even with whatever that's been said, even though I'm an old member - I had to dig through threads to even find stuff that's worth it for me, for example - registry tweaks for OldSaps Favorites to work - cmon now :S
I had to search and search - so why not make it easier for all newb's and old members so everythings organized and in one place??
Can some moderator help us out? In the smartphone section, we have the most Excalibur users compared to other phones. I'm not putting anyone down but there's many threads compared to others.
Why not make 3 moderators for each section? If you guys think I'm good enough to be a moderator, I don't mind. I'd be happy to moderate - If not me, no problem - Anyone senior who knows the subject and knows what to do to keep this thread clean !
Please Help Us, Moderators !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's make this guy moderator. newbs like me need a guide.
I agree! This forum is great but looking for the information is become more difficult and sometimes confusing.
I agree we need some moderators here, but i think we might have to post this on the general Section, see if we get the moderators to help us out.
I fully agree. I joined this forum just a couple of weeks ago, and it's been a living h*ll waving through all the threads here at XDA and at Howardforums just to find the solutions I need. Even the FAQ threads at Howardforums are ancient and 50+ pages, just a lot of stuff to read.
Get a poll going on.
I definitely agree with this and strongly urge EVERYONE to support so we can get 3 moderators. I myself can be one depending on user response as I'm familiar with the layout, the content and have been here for a while to know what's good and what's not. I was the one who wrote the The Windows Mobile 5 to 6 Guide and I know it helped a lot of people. Before, people used to post questions non stop and eventually a lot of users got frustrated. I do suggest a FULL CLEAN UP of this section and I could get it done hopefully by the coming weekend if everyone here helps me out to become a moderator. Here's my suggestions for moderators
1) Organic (AMAZING Contributor - The 6.1 Slide Panel King)
2) Outerdepth (Very Helpful - Has the knowledge and the resources available to help you)
3) PudgeDaddy (Was one of the prime reasons behind Weather Panel and has contributed a lot as well and is very helpful from first-hand experience
and finally Me only because I do have the extra time to help clean up the mess, have the knowledge, have been posting regularly and finally know what to do when it comes to helping the majority of questions.
It's upto you guys and someone has to e-mail the Moderators because I did in the past and No Luck. Finally, I'm not sure if everyone's willing to do this (from the 3 that I suggested) but I definitely will be happy to do it.
Keep Posting and Let's do something about this, guys !
What do you say guys?
Help me out here.
if you want to provide useful, up-to-date info, why not use the wiki?
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Excalibur
I will be happy to moderate the threads and forum here. I'm here almost 24 7 anyway. I've also tried to PM other moerators and even the admin...with no luck.
After reading this thread, I feel like I'm on Capitol Hill. lol Re-elect lukybandit for District 4 congressman!
I posted a verbose request for Mods (or making our own) to the staff here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=392112
Please visit, and maybe tack your approval on too? If everyone does this, it might affect them more?
Profezza said:
I posted a verbose request for Mods (or making our own) to the staff here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=392112
Please visit, and maybe tack your approval on too? If everyone does this, it might affect them more?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did my part on this lets hope we get more people to comment on it so we could get this going.
I'd be more than happy to moderate the Excalibur thread as well. I am almost here 24/7 myself. Me, Organic & one more person who is a regular (so far I've seen outerdepth to be pretty regular and jjdograz - not sure if thats the right username) but yes both of these are very helpful, have the knowledge and are pretty regular. I'd definitely help this forum out. I know what to do and how to get rid of the junk as soon as possible and help this thread a better place to be. Right now, in my opinion - it is a nightmare. So many newb's and even old-timers have such a hard time finding the right information. As Windows 6.1 is the current ROM, Me & Organic will collaborate and break it down for everybody with the right sticky's and information needed to get your 6.1 up & running without errors. Furthermore, I will have Recommendations (for apps, regedits), solutions to errors etc. You get the picture. I love XDA and so does almost everybody. Without XDA, my phone would have been a HTC s620 but thanks to XDA it's now a customized and highly modified machine.
I've said what I could have, please read my previous posts to see what I would do and how I would do things. If you don't think I'm the right person, no problem
I only want 3 moderators in this forum so visiting XDA could be a peaceful one. As of now, the search function has been fully abused, atleast by me because I have such a hard time finding the right information when infact, all the crucial information should be stickied.
Anyway, do your part and help get this going. As it'll only benefit newbies and ofcourse old timers, it's best we get to this as soon as possible. Thanks
Cmon guys we got to get this going so we could have a beter looking forum and make it easy to all of us to find updates.
I think the ROM cooks just need to learn to use the wiki. e.g. have a table sorted by date of all the ROMs and a page about each.
Good point... but the question is... will the majority of the users use the wiki ? Nope.
In order to have a better forum, many of the regulars would like to have some moderator attention. There are topics that are difficult to navigate, and a constant repetition of the same questions from new users.
The Excalibur Forum is a fairly active place, with some interesting original development, but it is even difficult for the senior-member types to find the resources, details and response to threads that they are looking for. Many of us have begun using our signatures as bookmarks to post because it is the only method of sharing common answers efficiently available to us.
There are several volunteers within the Excalibur regulars that are willing to take on the responsibility, and have proven themselves to be patient, good communicators and friendly many times over. Here is a discussion of the problem there: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=390733 Please let us know if this is feasible.
Thank you Admin(s).
We really need some Moderators on the Excalibur Forum it will help get all the information better placed, there is a lot of activity on the forum so we get the same information repeat it time after time from different people and it just makes it harder for the noobs on the forum to find out a quick solutions for their issues.
Hope we could get some help with this Admins.
I agree with the request. It would really make the Smartphones > Excalibur forum a lot better.
I'm behind you guys on this
It is getting out of hand in the Excalibur forums.
I completely agree with this. It wouldn't even take alot of work to make this forum more 'user friendly'. I feel somebody who uses the forum just needs to be able to creat a thread, pin it to the top so it doesn't get lost and be the only person that can post in that section. Therefore they would be able to post questions and answers themselves for the topics that keep coming up (eg. key mapping, sms/mms settings... the list goes on)
Lets make this happen people are not willing to use the search button and look around so lets make it as easy as possible to get the answers they need without reposting a question
I fully agree, senior members who contribute to the excalibur forum....( not senior members who don't...you know who you are) that also have a vast knowledge of modding and general issues are the ones i'd like to see....
Myself, Mikey1022, Profezza, OrganicM, Kavana, Rickwyatt, Rip Syntaxx are a few i could think of that would be great at being a moderator
Hmmm any admins around ?
+1
this forum need moderator...
I would be willing to moderate. I'm on there 24 x 7 almost and have grown quite familiar with the Excalibur and its operating system
Any word on this yet guys ? I'm itching to suggest a few sticky threads in the Excalibur forum.
mikechannon said:
Noticed the plea for a Moderator.
Let's have a couple of names for good candidates who would be willing to do it and we'll see what can be done.
Mike
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I nominate mikechannon
Me too! We just need *someone* to cleanup and add some badly needed stickys!!
I'm waiting on this too. I can't wait to go in "Cleanup & Organization" mode on Xda. I have enough information that I would like to compile so it's easy for everyone to use. Me & Organic are always on xda. There's so many redundant threads and so much trash that needs to be cleaned up and put in order so life is easier. Everyday there's new thread which have already been answered so many times. Using stickies and cleaning the excalibur thread will honestly make it so much easier on noobs as well as everybody else. Let us know as we're eager to get this going as soon as possible.
We haven't forgotten about you. In fact it's in "committee" for discussion as we speak.
In the meantime, feel free to build the Wiki and create useful threads that consolidate information. Once this is done you can easily PM existing Mods and request a Sticky. In fact if you PM me directly I'll make my best efforts to get to it ASAP but please allow that it might take a few hours for me to respond/react to requests.
Thank you for a response.
Go Chicago
Yea i think its down to 4 now, myself, OrganicM, Mikey1022, and luckybandit that would be the most interested.
id love to become a Moderator
Just an FYI, site Admin is currently extending invitations to a few selected candidates for moderation in the Smartphone Subforums.
So you should have additional Mods who are knowledgeable on your specific devices shortly.
I know, we're almost as bad as a bloated government sometimes but we are doing what we can to look out for you guys.
Well, while browsing the forum I've observed such a wrong attitude: moderators are closing topics where people makes comparison between different things, may it be ROMS, software, etc.
Examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=428372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=449641
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=454243
Sorry, but the moderation team SHOULD know the following:
- there are people that have tested many ROMS/applications
- there are people who don't have time to test n applications/ROMS
So what's wrong if ONE that had tested multiple ROMs share his opinions with the rest? What's wrong in telling us about the most stable ROM? I've also read something like "Test all the ROMS and see what's the best for you".. So, for eg, I have to flash all the ROMS to find out which one is the most stable .. instead reading other user suggestion that had already done that.. So WRONG and redundant.
Of course you can read other users opinions about a ROM in its dedicated thread , but a summary thread it's most valuable for many of us.
So, please, do not restrict this kind of topics!
There are some good posts (maybe even by me ) on why these threads are a bad idea, but I cannot find one of them for the life in me. So off the top of my head...
These threads are very subjective, each person has there own opinion on what a good ROM is and (maybe more inflamtary) who their favorite chef is.
There have been ROM review threads in the past, that's not a problem - PURESKILLZ flashed reviewed every kaiser ROM for a while (with screen shots).
And most moderators will let a "Can you recommend me a good arabic* ROM" thread, if correctly placed.
*Replace with some other niche requirement.
The main problem is ROM's come and go, I remember when Dutty's Hybrid Kaiser ROM's were the Dogs Bollocks, now I prefer something newer. Even what I prefer changes daily, last week it was minimal plain today screens, this week I felt like a Full Manila 2D ROM. How can this sort of thing be maintained? A collection of conflicting opinions of many users. How would chefs feel if people started to rate them against on anyother, i.e. is Noonski better than Dutty? Also, the threads are often started by noob's and never maintained so will soon become redundant.
The easiest way to see the latest ROM's is to check the 1st page or 2 of the "[device name] ROM development / Upgrading" forum.
Also, this is a Development site, Kyphur say's it best here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Thanks
Dave
If these kinds of posts would have proven to help they'd probably would be allowed.
They can serve the developers.
The prove of this is that some Comparison threads are still alive and kicking, because they compare in a professional manner
But in most cases they turn into nasty Food Fights that manage to get the developers of the apps being compared to give up because of the rudeness of the posts.
So as helping and creating an environment for Developers has a higher priority then having people express their opinions we'd rather not take the risk.
PS: Dutty is better then me.
But we both make different PERSONAL decisions on what we do. See the keyword "Personal" even thought everyone knows better, it's very easy to take it personal even when it ain't. Some handle it better then others, but why make life harder?
To repeat and possibly elaborate on what my esteemed colleagues have already stated:
A good Comparison Thread for Roms, Applications etc can always be useful. The problem is that "Which is the best" is a very subjective thing and so often the posters get into verbal sparring in defense of their fav at the moment.
There have been examples of good comparison threads where a complete analysis of each Rom/Application was given but the the "Fanbois" have come in and polluted the thread to the point that it just had to be trashed.
Read the post in my signature (and many others I've noticed) about "What is XDA-Devs?", enjoy the journey by trying them yourself....
I can see your point guys.. and you are right.. But you must agree that even if the user isn't developing something for WM/mobiles that doesn't mean that he's stupid or smth. That's true that many people ask really dumb questions for such site..
What motivates a developer? Feedback and money. Yes, feedback. Feedback coming from regular users. Why are developers releasing ROMS? Because they want to help others (esp. regular users, non-dev segment). Why some developers are releasing more versions frequently? Yes, because of feedback. Because they know that they don't work in vain. Even negative feedback is extremely good. It makes you to do the work better, to work more on it. Competition (vs things) is also good.
If this site was meant only for developing proposes then almost all the information was meant for: learning, sharing, evolving. And I mean only in "development style".
Also, here we can see many forums dedicated to Applications, even themes. Actually there are MORE forums for this instead for Development. See my topic "Development and Hacking" should be splitted. This should be addressed ASAP. If xda-developers is more organized in this area maybe more valuable developing information will be found.
You are all right but you miss one point, your work without the regular people is in vain. Let's say you talk here only about developing , but if you release an application you feel that you want to share it with the rest.. but if there are only developers , who can and know to program the application, then there's no joy..
If there is no question, there's no answer.
So I must say you should be more flexible with comparison threads and if someone post in "noob style" just warn/suspend him. Even if we are subjective, many of us have same tastes. Plus the user can point/explain why he choose that ROM/app. But you're right ,many people just don't elaborate it's choice, some say only "x is the best" without anything more
Sorry if I was not too coherent, I don't feel so good
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham
Those who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham.....
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments .....
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My 2 cts:
Nicely put, but (in my opinion) you still miss some points:
-value judgments are allowed, everybody is free to post their opinion about a certain ROM in the appropiate thread (obiding the rules of decency ofcourse).
So some of your quotes aren't applicable.
-There is no "best ROM", just as clearly there is no best "politial party", not a "best religion" or the "best way to raise a kid", that is because everybody have different needs, different values, and different ways of observation.
What is good for one, is bad or even harmfull for another, or just an insult. Please keep that in mind.
And because of this phenomena general threads like best ROM don't add value but only clutter, it's impossible to get general consensis.
Objective threads on the other hand are constructive.
You can take a variable like speed, indexing etc and measure that, and everybody knows that eg. a higher value for speed is better.
I think we tend to keep the forum as it is: a developers forum, so we naturally tend to judge numbers, and we attach higher values upon numbers that on personal feelings.
Disclaimer:
Please note that this post is a reflection of my own opinion and should not be seen as the general opinion of the moderator team or XDA-developers!
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset MaughamThose who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've really completely missed the point. The logic behind closing these threads is very simple, and has been already stated many times. It was determined long ago that these type of threads do more harm than good, and as such was made a rule here at XDA long before most of the people complaining about this issue even joined the site. Since it's a rule, the moderators enforce it.
It's nice to think that the "best app/rom" threads could somehow be a good place where healthy discussion could flourish, and users could provide constructive praise & criticism, but anyone who does any quantity of reading knows that the majority of people interested in "best rom/app" threads don't have any basis for constructive criticism, as they probably haven't flashed enough roms to know the difference between them.
As for you example of Manila2D/Manila3D, we all know that came to replace HTC Home for a very simple reason, which is that people want what's new, even if it isn't better. In that particular example i happen to prefer the manila interfact to HTC Home, but as a general rule it still remains true. That's why users who can't even read an error message to figure out they need to install netcf are always installing beta software, and then filling threads with questions. Not that i'm against them trying new software, but if you're gonna start something that's over your head, you oughta get prepared to start learning.
Anyway, I suppose the point to all of this is mostly the same as what Mike said, which is that obviously we can see the conceptual value to having these threads where users could post the things they do/don't like about roms/apps, but like many things in live it just doesn't work out in the way it should. Since users are allowed to post their thoughts and their criticisms about a rom in the thread for that rom, where the chef will definiitely read it, I don't feel like we're impeding anyone's ability to voice their opinions. All we require is that they are respectful when they share it.
I will admit to being one of the mods who may be, in your opinion, quick to squelch these best of threads.
When asked why I was closing so many "Which is the Best ROM" threads in the Kaiser section, I replied the following.
Thank you for your opinion. The Guidelines for the Kaiser Section were not invented by me solely and for no reason.
The reasons most Kaiser Mods discourage this type of thread, is these threads not only can create hard feelings between chefs but has been known to lead to all out flame wars
If you want to know peoples personal opinions on ROM, you are more than welcome to ask these questions in the ROM thread.
Also, the Kaiser forum is very active and placing peoples opinions of ROMs in the ROM Thread, where the chef can see and respond to such opinions, is more helpful to the community at large.
This guideline was not created to stop personal opinions and speech. But to lead to a better organized Forum Section.
Thanks,
Jimmy McGee
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Click to collapse
Those are still my sentiments. I once asked Scotchua about his favorite ROM. I tried it, and honestly I didn't like it. But that's ok, Scotchua and I have different priorities. As most people do.
There was once a thread, again in the Kaiser Section, (Can you tell what phone I use?) asking what the best IM app was. That thread is still open today. The Discussion was very civil and spoke of the equatable statistics of each IM app. Like which ones used proxies, which ones didn't, what once were free, and which ones cost. Since these programs were focused on the same end goal, To Send IMs via MSN, AIM or Yahoo!, it was easy to compare.
But this is not the case with ROMs, NATF started off making "Lean" ROMs for the Kaiser, while Leo was making "Fully Loaded" ROMs. These are two different categories that cannot be compared as easily.
Once again thank you for all your input, just remember, you can win all the battles.
woohoo...mike boy...you have hit 10 stars....
btw...yep...completely off-post but i hav a feelin this thread is gonna be trashed soon
A Little Toungue in Cheek
Very... Very well done. If anyone ever questions the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the Mods , they should be directed here. Well thought out answers (I personally am against this type of thread) and nicely conveyed opinions.
When and if another of these threads are closed, I think that this link should be attached, so that the OPs will know that thought was put into the closure and it was not done randomly.
Okay, now to those that think a thread like this could be constructive, I propose a test thread. But let us substitute some thing else for " roms " so as not to alienate any chefs EH............... lets say countries. Here is the new test thread
I am new here and I am trying to determine , " What is the best overall country in the world? " Could someone direct me please?
Okay, I will kick it off.......America, I have found to be the best, land of the free and all that.
agree with Mods
I completely agree with our Mods here, to allow these threads to exist would basically cause competition between the chefs, and that is something that should never happen. In the short time that I have been a member of this site I have learned ALOT by doing my own search, homework, and asking questions. I have made alot of friends on here and have very much grown to, dare I say "love" this site. I would hate to see this site turn into a competition site between chefs. If that happened there would probably be a reality tv series started AbC, CBS, etc... would be trying to buy rights to air "KAISERS HELL KITCHEN" lol, but seriously if there is a competition between chefs we would be loosing out due to the chefs not wanting to share their knowledge, because they are trying to out due each other. they would all be trying to keep their "trade secrets" out of "enemy" hands i guess you could say.
there would be no winner, just alot of us loosing out just to make things easier for newbs instead of them working, reading, and learning as we all have. i've heard some newbs say that they want this because they don't have time like the "regular" members on here do, and one post really kinda brought to lite the lack of motivation to learn: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3115995&postcount=12 a way they can tell now what roms are hot is check out how many veiws a thread has had, people flock to the popular threads don't they? it also goes back to personal opinion and experience, ex: if two people flash the same rom and one uses the wrong hardspl, radio, and doesn't hard reset and the other does all right who's kaiser will work properly, next you have that newb that didn't use the right spl, radio, etc.. telling everyone that the ex. rom is buggy when in all reality it is not.
All depends on what you want
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
BPB21 said:
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
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Good summary, but I would recomment Switzerland instead of Sweden
Dave
mikechannon said:
WTF. Jeeeeesh.... where do you guys get off..... Switzerland, Sweden.... pahhhh! I say. It's obvious to those WHO BOTHER TO RESEARCH and do A BIT OF READING that Norway is the ONLY option here that is worth the attention of anyone with a brain cell count exceeding a single digit.
Mike
PS
Yes of course if a poster asks for suggested ROMs and in doing so gives a very detailed list of requirements, then the thread would not be closed.
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I've changed my mind and retract Switzerland.
Norway? What are you on Mike
It has to be Malta. (This could go on all week, so I'll stop)
Dave
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
Agree with Mods
I completely agree with the Mods (also I use very low end devices, with not a lot of cookers)!
Because we all have our preferences when thinking which ROM is better, I may be ready to sacrifice anything for say speed or asthetics, but there may be pple (a lot of them) who want a mix of two. So what is best for me may not be best for you. And also there is no Sysoft Sandra like software in the mobile arena (sktools comes close) which can judge the actual performance of ROMs. Plus their tests are not what real life situation based. They are doing one thing at a time, while in real life, you are listening to a song or watching a video or surfing and a call or sms comes. So personally I prefer no comparisions. Come on the chefs burn a lot of mid night oil to cook this ROMs (and most of the users, including me don't donate a penny!), so what we can atleast do is give two hours of our 'valuable' time to check out their ROMs by ourselves. And we are so busy, then keep the original ROM and don't consider upgrading .
But its just my opinion nothing personal. I have tested nearly all ROMs in the Vox forum and Gene forum (for new Genes), and I am not a student , a working professional.
msd24200 said:
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
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Click to collapse
I have relayed your Offer, as i'm not in any position to judge or say anything about it.
Thanks.
ok i hope i dont get banned
1st i agree with the mods ....asking questions that wont get "logical" answers will get you flammed even by jrs like me. BUT i will take adavntage of this situation. we have alot of mods all on 1 thread "that hasnt been close" soooo whoever has a kaiser can you advise me on a stable fast lite "preferably" rom that DOESNT freeze up when texting "its already getting warm!!!" i have tried many roms and cabs with no success ive even put on an aprion :used a kitchen tool" but still nothing. I EVEN GOT A REPLY FROM DUTTY HIMSELF "ull never guess how many pms he gets" so instead of walking around blind openning new threads ima be a smart kid and ask the smarter ppl! always works for me.
Making competition between chefs is good thing i think...With doing that, we'll get the bests rom (speed, stability, features, etc...). Those thread should not be closed i think.
There are a lot of roms on this forum, do you think people will test all those to find which one is the best ? I think they're lazy to do that if they know that somebody tested many roms and could give his advice, they also ain't time for that.
This is my opinion and Sorry for my bad (oh how bad !) english