Well, while browsing the forum I've observed such a wrong attitude: moderators are closing topics where people makes comparison between different things, may it be ROMS, software, etc.
Examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=428372
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=449641
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=454243
Sorry, but the moderation team SHOULD know the following:
- there are people that have tested many ROMS/applications
- there are people who don't have time to test n applications/ROMS
So what's wrong if ONE that had tested multiple ROMs share his opinions with the rest? What's wrong in telling us about the most stable ROM? I've also read something like "Test all the ROMS and see what's the best for you".. So, for eg, I have to flash all the ROMS to find out which one is the most stable .. instead reading other user suggestion that had already done that.. So WRONG and redundant.
Of course you can read other users opinions about a ROM in its dedicated thread , but a summary thread it's most valuable for many of us.
So, please, do not restrict this kind of topics!
There are some good posts (maybe even by me ) on why these threads are a bad idea, but I cannot find one of them for the life in me. So off the top of my head...
These threads are very subjective, each person has there own opinion on what a good ROM is and (maybe more inflamtary) who their favorite chef is.
There have been ROM review threads in the past, that's not a problem - PURESKILLZ flashed reviewed every kaiser ROM for a while (with screen shots).
And most moderators will let a "Can you recommend me a good arabic* ROM" thread, if correctly placed.
*Replace with some other niche requirement.
The main problem is ROM's come and go, I remember when Dutty's Hybrid Kaiser ROM's were the Dogs Bollocks, now I prefer something newer. Even what I prefer changes daily, last week it was minimal plain today screens, this week I felt like a Full Manila 2D ROM. How can this sort of thing be maintained? A collection of conflicting opinions of many users. How would chefs feel if people started to rate them against on anyother, i.e. is Noonski better than Dutty? Also, the threads are often started by noob's and never maintained so will soon become redundant.
The easiest way to see the latest ROM's is to check the 1st page or 2 of the "[device name] ROM development / Upgrading" forum.
Also, this is a Development site, Kyphur say's it best here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Thanks
Dave
If these kinds of posts would have proven to help they'd probably would be allowed.
They can serve the developers.
The prove of this is that some Comparison threads are still alive and kicking, because they compare in a professional manner
But in most cases they turn into nasty Food Fights that manage to get the developers of the apps being compared to give up because of the rudeness of the posts.
So as helping and creating an environment for Developers has a higher priority then having people express their opinions we'd rather not take the risk.
PS: Dutty is better then me.
But we both make different PERSONAL decisions on what we do. See the keyword "Personal" even thought everyone knows better, it's very easy to take it personal even when it ain't. Some handle it better then others, but why make life harder?
To repeat and possibly elaborate on what my esteemed colleagues have already stated:
A good Comparison Thread for Roms, Applications etc can always be useful. The problem is that "Which is the best" is a very subjective thing and so often the posters get into verbal sparring in defense of their fav at the moment.
There have been examples of good comparison threads where a complete analysis of each Rom/Application was given but the the "Fanbois" have come in and polluted the thread to the point that it just had to be trashed.
Read the post in my signature (and many others I've noticed) about "What is XDA-Devs?", enjoy the journey by trying them yourself....
I can see your point guys.. and you are right.. But you must agree that even if the user isn't developing something for WM/mobiles that doesn't mean that he's stupid or smth. That's true that many people ask really dumb questions for such site..
What motivates a developer? Feedback and money. Yes, feedback. Feedback coming from regular users. Why are developers releasing ROMS? Because they want to help others (esp. regular users, non-dev segment). Why some developers are releasing more versions frequently? Yes, because of feedback. Because they know that they don't work in vain. Even negative feedback is extremely good. It makes you to do the work better, to work more on it. Competition (vs things) is also good.
If this site was meant only for developing proposes then almost all the information was meant for: learning, sharing, evolving. And I mean only in "development style".
Also, here we can see many forums dedicated to Applications, even themes. Actually there are MORE forums for this instead for Development. See my topic "Development and Hacking" should be splitted. This should be addressed ASAP. If xda-developers is more organized in this area maybe more valuable developing information will be found.
You are all right but you miss one point, your work without the regular people is in vain. Let's say you talk here only about developing , but if you release an application you feel that you want to share it with the rest.. but if there are only developers , who can and know to program the application, then there's no joy..
If there is no question, there's no answer.
So I must say you should be more flexible with comparison threads and if someone post in "noob style" just warn/suspend him. Even if we are subjective, many of us have same tastes. Plus the user can point/explain why he choose that ROM/app. But you're right ,many people just don't elaborate it's choice, some say only "x is the best" without anything more
Sorry if I was not too coherent, I don't feel so good
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham
Those who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:
"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset Maugham.....
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments .....
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
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My 2 cts:
Nicely put, but (in my opinion) you still miss some points:
-value judgments are allowed, everybody is free to post their opinion about a certain ROM in the appropiate thread (obiding the rules of decency ofcourse).
So some of your quotes aren't applicable.
-There is no "best ROM", just as clearly there is no best "politial party", not a "best religion" or the "best way to raise a kid", that is because everybody have different needs, different values, and different ways of observation.
What is good for one, is bad or even harmfull for another, or just an insult. Please keep that in mind.
And because of this phenomena general threads like best ROM don't add value but only clutter, it's impossible to get general consensis.
Objective threads on the other hand are constructive.
You can take a variable like speed, indexing etc and measure that, and everybody knows that eg. a higher value for speed is better.
I think we tend to keep the forum as it is: a developers forum, so we naturally tend to judge numbers, and we attach higher values upon numbers that on personal feelings.
Disclaimer:
Please note that this post is a reflection of my own opinion and should not be seen as the general opinion of the moderator team or XDA-developers!
dumpydooby said:
The old aphorism comes to mind: A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.
More aptly put:"People ask for criticism, but they only want praise." -- W. Somerset MaughamThose who present their creations to the vicessitudes of public reception ought to expect their creations to be scrutinized and judged by those receiving it. Any individual that considers a product (i.e., something that has been produced) is charged with the duty of determining its efficacy based on face value. In the context of this community, this action is done by evaluating the presentation of the application or ROM via screen shots, description, cost (monetary or otherwise), perhaps even the source, etcetera. The point here is that before anyone even downloads a product, it is evaluated. Once received: form, function, aesthetics, etcetera lend themselves to further scrutiny, evaluation, and judgment.
It is ridiculous to censor value-judgments. Value-judgments are the driving force behind progression and innovation. This forum, for example, wouldn't even exist were it not for the fact that one day, an individual decided that the efficacy of XDA development would be improved by abrogating the the sparsely populated niche blogs and decentralized developers and replacing them with a centralized and synergistic community of experts. More to the point, the progressions and innovations, even within this community, occur because the status quo has been evaluated and judged.
As an example, let us observe a recent phenomenon that has occurred here: Manilla 2D (and 3D) has largely replaced HTC Home. Why? Clearly it wasn't because developers and members alike humored the ridiculous notion of "judge not, let ye be not judged."
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Click to collapse
I think you've really completely missed the point. The logic behind closing these threads is very simple, and has been already stated many times. It was determined long ago that these type of threads do more harm than good, and as such was made a rule here at XDA long before most of the people complaining about this issue even joined the site. Since it's a rule, the moderators enforce it.
It's nice to think that the "best app/rom" threads could somehow be a good place where healthy discussion could flourish, and users could provide constructive praise & criticism, but anyone who does any quantity of reading knows that the majority of people interested in "best rom/app" threads don't have any basis for constructive criticism, as they probably haven't flashed enough roms to know the difference between them.
As for you example of Manila2D/Manila3D, we all know that came to replace HTC Home for a very simple reason, which is that people want what's new, even if it isn't better. In that particular example i happen to prefer the manila interfact to HTC Home, but as a general rule it still remains true. That's why users who can't even read an error message to figure out they need to install netcf are always installing beta software, and then filling threads with questions. Not that i'm against them trying new software, but if you're gonna start something that's over your head, you oughta get prepared to start learning.
Anyway, I suppose the point to all of this is mostly the same as what Mike said, which is that obviously we can see the conceptual value to having these threads where users could post the things they do/don't like about roms/apps, but like many things in live it just doesn't work out in the way it should. Since users are allowed to post their thoughts and their criticisms about a rom in the thread for that rom, where the chef will definiitely read it, I don't feel like we're impeding anyone's ability to voice their opinions. All we require is that they are respectful when they share it.
I will admit to being one of the mods who may be, in your opinion, quick to squelch these best of threads.
When asked why I was closing so many "Which is the Best ROM" threads in the Kaiser section, I replied the following.
Thank you for your opinion. The Guidelines for the Kaiser Section were not invented by me solely and for no reason.
The reasons most Kaiser Mods discourage this type of thread, is these threads not only can create hard feelings between chefs but has been known to lead to all out flame wars
If you want to know peoples personal opinions on ROM, you are more than welcome to ask these questions in the ROM thread.
Also, the Kaiser forum is very active and placing peoples opinions of ROMs in the ROM Thread, where the chef can see and respond to such opinions, is more helpful to the community at large.
This guideline was not created to stop personal opinions and speech. But to lead to a better organized Forum Section.
Thanks,
Jimmy McGee
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Those are still my sentiments. I once asked Scotchua about his favorite ROM. I tried it, and honestly I didn't like it. But that's ok, Scotchua and I have different priorities. As most people do.
There was once a thread, again in the Kaiser Section, (Can you tell what phone I use?) asking what the best IM app was. That thread is still open today. The Discussion was very civil and spoke of the equatable statistics of each IM app. Like which ones used proxies, which ones didn't, what once were free, and which ones cost. Since these programs were focused on the same end goal, To Send IMs via MSN, AIM or Yahoo!, it was easy to compare.
But this is not the case with ROMs, NATF started off making "Lean" ROMs for the Kaiser, while Leo was making "Fully Loaded" ROMs. These are two different categories that cannot be compared as easily.
Once again thank you for all your input, just remember, you can win all the battles.
woohoo...mike boy...you have hit 10 stars....
btw...yep...completely off-post but i hav a feelin this thread is gonna be trashed soon
A Little Toungue in Cheek
Very... Very well done. If anyone ever questions the intelligence and thoughtfulness of the Mods , they should be directed here. Well thought out answers (I personally am against this type of thread) and nicely conveyed opinions.
When and if another of these threads are closed, I think that this link should be attached, so that the OPs will know that thought was put into the closure and it was not done randomly.
Okay, now to those that think a thread like this could be constructive, I propose a test thread. But let us substitute some thing else for " roms " so as not to alienate any chefs EH............... lets say countries. Here is the new test thread
I am new here and I am trying to determine , " What is the best overall country in the world? " Could someone direct me please?
Okay, I will kick it off.......America, I have found to be the best, land of the free and all that.
agree with Mods
I completely agree with our Mods here, to allow these threads to exist would basically cause competition between the chefs, and that is something that should never happen. In the short time that I have been a member of this site I have learned ALOT by doing my own search, homework, and asking questions. I have made alot of friends on here and have very much grown to, dare I say "love" this site. I would hate to see this site turn into a competition site between chefs. If that happened there would probably be a reality tv series started AbC, CBS, etc... would be trying to buy rights to air "KAISERS HELL KITCHEN" lol, but seriously if there is a competition between chefs we would be loosing out due to the chefs not wanting to share their knowledge, because they are trying to out due each other. they would all be trying to keep their "trade secrets" out of "enemy" hands i guess you could say.
there would be no winner, just alot of us loosing out just to make things easier for newbs instead of them working, reading, and learning as we all have. i've heard some newbs say that they want this because they don't have time like the "regular" members on here do, and one post really kinda brought to lite the lack of motivation to learn: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=3115995&postcount=12 a way they can tell now what roms are hot is check out how many veiws a thread has had, people flock to the popular threads don't they? it also goes back to personal opinion and experience, ex: if two people flash the same rom and one uses the wrong hardspl, radio, and doesn't hard reset and the other does all right who's kaiser will work properly, next you have that newb that didn't use the right spl, radio, etc.. telling everyone that the ex. rom is buggy when in all reality it is not.
All depends on what you want
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
BPB21 said:
You're all close, but as a very new post-er to this board here's my thoughts (objectively speaking, the mere existence of a bulletin board/forum is a solicitation for comment, so I know everyone wants to hear what I've got to say!)...
DSF - you're on the right track, and I agree with your idea in general, but not specifically as to "best".
DaveShaw - I agree that there is no "best" ROM. However, you've got the right idea with your "niche", as you call it; it's the "Best for me".
dumpydooby - It is impossible to censor value judgments; I do agree. There must be a reason that the public can join this forum. If it was really intended for developers' eyes only, then you wouldn't be able to post without providing your own custom ROM or App prior to membership.
To quote Head First [Series] Software Development, (O'Reilly Pub.) "Great software development delivers what the customer wants."
the-equinoxe - I agree with you that A thread that simply asks "Which ROM is the best" isn't a valid question (or thread). But, a thread that says "Which ROM does A, B and C the best?" is a valid question. Plus, the-equinoxe, isn't your argument in favor of objectivity on the forum discredited by your "disclaimer" that your post only represents your own personal [subjective] opinion; that it isn't even a consensus of moderators or anything? (I'm just kidding with you on that - no flames here!)
JimmyMcGee - You're right on track with your point about the "best" IM discussion. It's my position that this can be done with ROMs (and should be done; read on).
msd24200 (taking these out of order) - you too are correct that some don't want to learn. But, you've got to remember the concept of "rational ignorance". I use my HTC for work, I need it working like I want it as soon as reasonably possible. I simply don't have time to flash several ROMs, or even spend hours on end Google searching through tons of posts. Just finding xda-developers forum in the first place was a big relief and shortcut for me for tuning up my device. While I'm just as interested in development for the HTC devices as everyone else is, I'm also interested in more things than I could learn about if I took the time for them all. Sometimes I just need the answer and we can all agree that HTC and Microsoft don't provide enough answers (or else this forum would not exist, according to the statement about why this forum was created). Which brings me to...
denco7 - You've hit the nail on the head with your "which country is best" analogy, although you might not have intended to. Let's say I respond to that inquiry and say, "I'd like a country where there is no war, no military, I'm a big banking enthusiast, I like clocks and watches, I like a predominantly cooler climate, am fond of mountains, and find Nordic-type women attractive [as long as I'm being stereotypical I might as well go all out! Please excuse any offense I may cause!]." Your response would then be, "Gee, they've got this Country called Sweden that's a lot like what you've described. You should start there first."
I think there is a section on here for "ROM requests". I couldn't find it, in a brief search, to post a link to it on here (which may suggest this type thread isn't common enough). All posts asking "which ROM is best" should be redirected [presumably by a moderator] to that "mod request" thread/forum/section so that the user can provide more details and then closed and/or deleted. If the area to post requests for recommendations such as this is visible enough (e.g. - I had no problem finding the HTC Raphael area, but I can't seem to locate suggest-a-ROM) then it will end much of the "which ROM is best" posts.
Lastly, there was a forum on www.tweakguides.com (it's still there, but it's closed). The site owner/webmaster, Koroush Ghazi, had a larger-scale issue with noobs who don't do research and post needlessly. It's better explained on the site itself. I have long been a fan of that site and greatly respect Koroush's work and his decision, and reference his site as an excellent resource in general. But as his post points out, there will always be a trade-off between supplying valuable information and objective critique and people who would rather waste time. It's all in how you choose to go about solving that problem once it becomes one (and I don't say that to be critical of what Koroush accomplished with his site or his decision to shut down the forums).
The point to all this; make an easily and quickly identifiable section (as easy as selecting what model of phone you have - with the pictures, or even a dedicated area) for requesting the best ROM FOR X, Y and Z. When I browse through the ROMs section, I just see the various code-names for the ROMs and posts that they are updated. I still don't know what they do. I don't have enough hours in the day to flash a few, or even to really get familiar with this forum. But I'd still like to learn, and the regulars on here are familiar with the forum structure. Just point those seeking the "best ROM" to the area where they can request a ROM that matches their needs without having to research, try, and try again every potential ROM out there. You've got to admit, even for someone involved in technology, learning about WM OS and HTC phones has a learning curve.
That's it, my $0.02 as it goes.
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Good summary, but I would recomment Switzerland instead of Sweden
Dave
mikechannon said:
WTF. Jeeeeesh.... where do you guys get off..... Switzerland, Sweden.... pahhhh! I say. It's obvious to those WHO BOTHER TO RESEARCH and do A BIT OF READING that Norway is the ONLY option here that is worth the attention of anyone with a brain cell count exceeding a single digit.
Mike
PS
Yes of course if a poster asks for suggested ROMs and in doing so gives a very detailed list of requirements, then the thread would not be closed.
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I've changed my mind and retract Switzerland.
Norway? What are you on Mike
It has to be Malta. (This could go on all week, so I'll stop)
Dave
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
Agree with Mods
I completely agree with the Mods (also I use very low end devices, with not a lot of cookers)!
Because we all have our preferences when thinking which ROM is better, I may be ready to sacrifice anything for say speed or asthetics, but there may be pple (a lot of them) who want a mix of two. So what is best for me may not be best for you. And also there is no Sysoft Sandra like software in the mobile arena (sktools comes close) which can judge the actual performance of ROMs. Plus their tests are not what real life situation based. They are doing one thing at a time, while in real life, you are listening to a song or watching a video or surfing and a call or sms comes. So personally I prefer no comparisions. Come on the chefs burn a lot of mid night oil to cook this ROMs (and most of the users, including me don't donate a penny!), so what we can atleast do is give two hours of our 'valuable' time to check out their ROMs by ourselves. And we are so busy, then keep the original ROM and don't consider upgrading .
But its just my opinion nothing personal. I have tested nearly all ROMs in the Vox forum and Gene forum (for new Genes), and I am not a student , a working professional.
msd24200 said:
ok while i got some mods on here and im thinking about it. i have to old compaq proliant servers that i am willing to donate if they can be used. is this something that xda-developers might want? if so pm me and let me know!!!
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I have relayed your Offer, as i'm not in any position to judge or say anything about it.
Thanks.
ok i hope i dont get banned
1st i agree with the mods ....asking questions that wont get "logical" answers will get you flammed even by jrs like me. BUT i will take adavntage of this situation. we have alot of mods all on 1 thread "that hasnt been close" soooo whoever has a kaiser can you advise me on a stable fast lite "preferably" rom that DOESNT freeze up when texting "its already getting warm!!!" i have tried many roms and cabs with no success ive even put on an aprion :used a kitchen tool" but still nothing. I EVEN GOT A REPLY FROM DUTTY HIMSELF "ull never guess how many pms he gets" so instead of walking around blind openning new threads ima be a smart kid and ask the smarter ppl! always works for me.
Making competition between chefs is good thing i think...With doing that, we'll get the bests rom (speed, stability, features, etc...). Those thread should not be closed i think.
There are a lot of roms on this forum, do you think people will test all those to find which one is the best ? I think they're lazy to do that if they know that somebody tested many roms and could give his advice, they also ain't time for that.
This is my opinion and Sorry for my bad (oh how bad !) english
Not only is development and hacking clogged up by numerous threads all just regarding themes and theme issues but so are all the sub forums. So why not have a specific section just for themes? I think that this would tidy up the entire site, for example tf3d themes are now spread across quite a few forums and there are loads of wallpaper threads in every forum, development and hacking is starting to fill up with titanium themes.
So my idea is to have a new section....Themes and UIs ....everything together, multi device.
What do you think?
Not sure if im blind or just missed it...but you didnt explain where you wanted it. Im thinking your talking about the dream forum b/c I am in there a lot, but I read it and said nah b/c there is a theme forum. You have to specify where if you want some assistance .
Thanks for the reply I actually meant an entire new forum devoted to themes and UIs for any device in the main section right here at the top.
Any Mods got an opinion?...bump....this has to be the quietest place on xda devs.
You might want to consider reposting in this thread.
I agree with the skins theme forum, well, maybe not completely. A sub forum should be more than enough, not a full section dedicated to skins.
Also, what exactly do you mean by UI? If you are talking about things like M2D, PointUI, IFonz, etc... those things really are part of Dev and Hacking (more D than H), but they should be there simply because they are being developed/ported/made by other site members who rely on the feedback, knowledge, and expertise of other developers to debug and complete their apps.
Just my two cents.
I agree completely. Would help the site and the user. Users would be able to find themes more easily.
egzthunder1 said:
I agree with the skins theme forum, well, maybe not completely. A sub forum should be more than enough, not a full section dedicated to skins.
Also, what exactly do you mean by UI? If you are talking about things like M2D, PointUI, IFonz, etc... those things really are part of Dev and Hacking (more D than H), but they should be there simply because they are being developed/ported/made by other site members who rely on the feedback, knowledge, and expertise of other developers to debug and complete their apps.
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes UI=User Interface, I know what you mean, developement does belong in D&H but it is overflowing with UI stuff at the moment, stuff like M2D would still get developed and supported, just somewhere else. I think it would be one of the busiest forums on the site and that a new forum would unburden Dev and Hacking leaving it free for all other development.
With a dedicated themes section it would be great to have a few things like a dedicated photoshop tips and questions thread and a place where people could share all their custom graphics and knowledge in one place.
Well, not a lot of votes, but there does seem to be a bit of a swing.
Please if you do view this thread you might as well vote, it does not take very long.
Vote added...nice thread.
+1. Perhaps a sub-forum of Dev & Hacking would be nice, instead of a seperate section itself.
I think it is a good idea
that will save time and keep out the interruption thread what take our attention if we are searching for themes and UIs only
Makes the site more arranged
you have my voice
Connect the Devs
Thanks to everyone who has voted so far.
Another point that occurred to me which I have not put too clearly to date, is that not only would all the themes be in one place, but so would all the theme developers! Which to me seems possibly like the biggest advantage of all, to help connect all the theme developers from across all the boards, now that would be good to do.
good idea...clearly people like this and it should be implemented into the website
now we should vote on where in the forums it should be.
New section or under dev/hacks or somethin?
vote added.. separate section would clear up Themes/Skin Developments frm Software Developments and make navigation easy!
Good idea !!! I'm for it.
Windows Phone 6.5
Windows Phone 6.5 themes are where it's at now; are you planning on heading that direction?
@ Black C5, yes definitely wm 6.5 themes are huge in development and hacking right now. If I had my way there would be a sub section of the Themes and UI's section dedicated to WM 6.5 themes with a big sticky near the top linking to all available widgets and add ons etc. I think that dev and hacking is the right place for widgets since they fall into the catagory of software development but themes don't, if it's mainly graphical it should be in the hypothetical themes and ui's section.
What next?
So how many votes are needed to make this happen? and how do I/we go about making it happen?
uniqueboy said:
So how many votes are needed to make this happen? and how do I/we go about making it happen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well To put it bluntly, This isn't a democracy so there is no magic number of votes that will make this happen.
this may happen if and only if the Admins decide that they want to do so.
However that's not to say this is of no use, the admins like to give the people what they want. But don't think that they will automatically create this section just because you got x amount of votes.
When the time is right, and they decide, then it will happen.
To answer my question; yes, I do. I always feel lost when I come here, so for this time, I want to try something new.
1) The main issue. I recognized (unlike all other forums on the Internet), it has three, distinct "layers" with a different visual appearance depending how deep you go into levels.
Level 1: https://forum.xda-developers.com/
Take note of the distinct visual appearance.
Level 2: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Remember that one level up (https://forum.xda-developers.com/) you had actual descriptions of what each category is about. At this level the descriptions have disappeared (for some reason), so you always have to go a level up to figure out which category you want to enter.
Level 3: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Now this looks like your regular Internet forum. I wonder why can't Level 1. and 2. look just like Level 3. for an easy overview of navigation.
Am I the only person all these levels are not intuitive for or you as well? What forum engine XDA Forums runs on? I noted that Level 3. is fine, it looks like just any other Internet forum, but I'm puzzled and perplexed as ever about the distinct designs of Levels 1. and 2.
For a comparison of some neat and friendly forum interfaces, I encourage you to check out:
https://forums.anandtech.com/
https://arstechnica.com/civis/
+1: https://forum.f-droid.org/
Nothing special, really: just time tested, old forum interfaces that "just works" as they say. I'm not even saying they are perfect. For example, the AnandTech Forum doesn't have the descriptions the Ars Technica forum has, but due to the self-explanatory nature of the categories, I'm not lost while there. I understand XDA Forums have more complex topics, so descriptions are preferred.
+1: As opposed to the Ars Technica and AnandTech Forums, The F-Droid Forum uses a new school interface called Discourse. I find it effective as it has powerful features. If you ever want to upgrade XDA Forums, you might want to consider going with a next generation forum engine like Discourse.
Example: https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/budget-phones-eur-usd100-worth-buying-t3433115
I simply can't believe I'm the single person on this forum interested in this question. (It's timely as ever, by the way.) I just feel other people interested in the same topic somehow never found their way to my question because they also find XDA Forums overall just too complex to get a grasp on everything happening here.
2) Has anyone ever found checking the "Q&A Thread" was useful for their thread, and didn't regret checking that box in the end? Back then when I was without a clue, I checked the box. I learned never to check it again. See my cautionary tale here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/help/viewing-internal-storage-generic-phone-t3429852
I never got a proper answer there, and totally by accident (by external Google search after gave up I will ever find my answer on XDA Forums), I have found what I was looking for in a 5-year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus thread which turned out to be completely device-independent stuff: https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...nlock-root-t1420351/post69913460#post69913460
Now why would the author of this completely device-independent guide put the guide in the Samsung Galaxy Nexus forum section where it lied for 5 years unnoticed, but being still useful today? Probably he has never figured out where the proper place for device-independent guides on the forum is. (Where is the proper place for device independent guides on the forum really, where contributors and users alike will find it equally easily?)
My related observation to this point is that I noticed many of the juicy activity on this forum in general takes place in [insert this year's hot Android phone] categories. Hot Android phone of the day or year changes at least yearly, most users change their devices at least once in two years, so even though many device-independent advice might have been accumulated in the topics for previous year's hot phones, this knowledge seems to be lost. It's still here on the forum, just no one looks at threads of old phones popular years ago looking for device-independent advice, people can only stumble upon information from this (actually huge) section of the forum by accident.
3) Idea: how about a distinctive indicator for a project is being active, still actively maintained or developed? It can be a green sign for active projects. Projects no longer being maintained and developed on the other hand could be distinctively marked with a red sign.
Example for I mistakenly thought of an active and alive project that it was no longer maintained and developed... or not? But something like this:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=71988461&postcount=17847
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72580936&postcount=17958
(Poor developer @M66B, I have no idea what negative experiences he may refer to: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69284003)
Example for me being lost here 1.: This project has been abandoned for sure: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
The thread has been closed for 5 years. I have no idea whatsoever in which section should I ask about a similar project which is alive and well. (And expect for answers, which is equally important! A few paragraphs above you can see examples that even I asked the right question in the right place according to moderator, I never received any answer whatsoever, or any meaningful answer.)
Example for me being lost here 2.: I really want to ask somewhere
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/135711/is-apkmirror-com-safe
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/74618/how-safe-is-it-to-use-aptoide
Example 2, for not finding my way around XDA Forums. I noticed there are many worthy, distinctive projects that seem to be abandoned by their developers: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
It seems to be pretty abandoned; the thread has been closed for 5 years.
Aren't just too many separate categories? I just never was able to figure out the "overview" of XDA Forums the way I had no problem to overview AnandTech Forums and the Ars Technica forums. Even if you say there are exactly as many forum categories as needed, I can accept that. But sure, you could do more to make it visually intuitive - just like most other forums on the Internet are. Thanks!
Update. Another case in point: https://www.xda-developers.com/goog...-with-root-and-android-pay-in-the-xda-forums/
Poor Google engineer @jasondclinton_google has some good, general info on rooting vs. Android Pay (Google Pay?) security but why he had to post it in an obscured thread under xda-developers > Google Nexus 5 > Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting > Android Pay and Custom ROM instead of a forum topic of more general interest is beyond me.
Anyone?
Theres quite a few threads on this subject, perhaps people dont feel the need to contribute to another one?
magicphone said:
To answer my question; yes, I do. I always feel lost when I come here, so for this time, I want to try something new.
1) The main issue. I recognized (unlike all other forums on the Internet), it has three, distinct "layers" with a different visual appearance depending how deep you go into levels.
Level 1: https://forum.xda-developers.com/
Take note of the distinct visual appearance.
Level 2: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Remember that one level up (https://forum.xda-developers.com/) you had actual descriptions of what each category is about. At this level the descriptions have disappeared (for some reason), so you always have to go a level up to figure out which category you want to enter.
Level 3: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games
Take note of the distinct visual appearance. Now this looks like your regular Internet forum. I wonder why can't Level 1. and 2. look just like Level 3. for an easy overview of navigation.
Am I the only person all these levels are not intuitive for or you as well? What forum engine XDA Forums runs on? I noted that Level 3. is fine, it looks like just any other Internet forum, but I'm puzzled and perplexed as ever about the distinct designs of Levels 1. and 2.
For a comparison of some neat and friendly forum interfaces, I encourage you to check out:
https://forums.anandtech.com/
https://arstechnica.com/civis/
+1: https://forum.f-droid.org/
Nothing special, really: just time tested, old forum interfaces that "just works" as they say. I'm not even saying they are perfect. For example, the AnandTech Forum doesn't have the descriptions the Ars Technica forum has, but due to the self-explanatory nature of the categories, I'm not lost while there. I understand XDA Forums have more complex topics, so descriptions are preferred.
+1: As opposed to the Ars Technica and AnandTech Forums, The F-Droid Forum uses a new school interface called Discourse. I find it effective as it has powerful features. If you ever want to upgrade XDA Forums, you might want to consider going with a next generation forum engine like Discourse.
Example: https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/help/budget-phones-eur-usd100-worth-buying-t3433115
I simply can't believe I'm the single person on this forum interested in this question. (It's timely as ever, by the way.) I just feel other people interested in the same topic somehow never found their way to my question because they also find XDA Forums overall just too complex to get a grasp on everything happening here.
2) Has anyone ever found checking the "Q&A Thread" was useful for their thread, and didn't regret checking that box in the end? Back then when I was without a clue, I checked the box. I learned never to check it again. See my cautionary tale here: https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/help/viewing-internal-storage-generic-phone-t3429852
I never got a proper answer there, and totally by accident (by external Google search after gave up I will ever find my answer on XDA Forums), I have found what I was looking for in a 5-year old Samsung Galaxy Nexus thread which turned out to be completely device-independent stuff: https://forum.xda-developers.com/ga...nlock-root-t1420351/post69913460#post69913460
Now why would the author of this completely device-independent guide put the guide in the Samsung Galaxy Nexus forum section where it lied for 5 years unnoticed, but being still useful today? Probably he has never figured out where the proper place for device-independent guides on the forum is. (Where is the proper place for device independent guides on the forum really, where contributors and users alike will find it equally easily?)
My related observation to this point is that I noticed many of the juicy activity on this forum in general takes place in [insert this year's hot Android phone] categories. Hot Android phone of the day or year changes at least yearly, most users change their devices at least once in two years, so even though many device-independent advice might have been accumulated in the topics for previous year's hot phones, this knowledge seems to be lost. It's still here on the forum, just no one looks at threads of old phones popular years ago looking for device-independent advice, people can only stumble upon information from this (actually huge) section of the forum by accident.
3) Idea: how about a distinctive indicator for a project is being active, still actively maintained or developed? It can be a green sign for active projects. Projects no longer being maintained and developed on the other hand could be distinctively marked with a red sign.
Example for I mistakenly thought of an active and alive project that it was no longer maintained and developed... or not? But something like this:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=71988461&postcount=17847
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=72580936&postcount=17958
(Poor developer @M66B, I have no idea what negative experiences he may refer to: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=69284003)
Example for me being lost here 1.: This project has been abandoned for sure: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
The thread has been closed for 5 years. I have no idea whatsoever in which section should I ask about a similar project which is alive and well. (And expect for answers, which is equally important! A few paragraphs above you can see examples that even I asked the right question in the right place according to moderator, I never received any answer whatsoever, or any meaningful answer.)
Example for me being lost here 2.: I really want to ask somewhere
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/135711/is-apkmirror-com-safe
https://android.stackexchange.com/questions/74618/how-safe-is-it-to-use-aptoide
Example 2, for not finding my way around XDA Forums. I noticed there are many worthy, distinctive projects that seem to be abandoned by their developers: https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=888181
It seems to be pretty abandoned; the thread has been closed for 5 years.
Aren't just too many separate categories? I just never was able to figure out the "overview" of XDA Forums the way I had no problem to overview AnandTech Forums and the Ars Technica forums. Even if you say there are exactly as many forum categories as needed, I can accept that. But sure, you could do more to make it visually intuitive - just like most other forums on the Internet are. Thanks!
Update. Another case in point: https://www.xda-developers.com/goog...-with-root-and-android-pay-in-the-xda-forums/
Poor Google engineer @jasondclinton_google has some good, general info on rooting vs. Android Pay (Google Pay?) security but why he had to post it in an obscured thread under xda-developers > Google Nexus 5 > Nexus 5 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting > Android Pay and Custom ROM instead of a forum topic of more general interest is beyond me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To your first point, I actually like the separate layouts for the different layers of the forum. I love modded forums in general, and I enjoy when forums step outside of the basic forumdisplay page.
As for the other points, I agree. I've spent the past few hours searching different forums for a few topics, and a lot of "general" info is split between a myriad of specialized, nested forums. I assume this helps the admins manage topic threads more efficiently. I'm sure it just takes some getting used to. I wouldn't describe it as "complicated" or "non-intuitive," just unique to xda. I run specialized message boards myself, and some forums are born out of general discussions that need to be compartmentalized for better management.
If I understand the whole situation, it goes like this: XDA has been around before Android was a thing, but got a high popularity boost with the introduction of Google's mobile operating system.
The original motto was along the lines of 'by developers, for developers.' But then a lot of new Android people came, not just developers, users as well and XDA couldn't keep up with the surge and you guys still try to find out ever since how to best manage such a huge and diverse community with developers and users alike, how to manage projects, bug reports, while maintaining a community of users, who might as well insightful feature requests for the projects. Does this sound about right?
So. Is the motto of the forum still supposed to be something like 'by developers, for developers,' or perhaps, it has changed?
Old, clip from your YouTube channel: You are a Noob on XDA-Developers. It's your second most watched video on your channel, actually. I just wonder if it's still the dominant attitude of you guys who run this place towards users (some of whom, perhaps want to remain users, just want to get out the most of their phones) and they should piss off and better go elsewhere, or perhaps you have toned down the communication and you are in the process of figuring out how this place could be more fruitful for all?
See more at the Google search: xda site:https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/
I Google searched to find this forum because I am just trying to understand XDA's layout. I'm currently using the app, and I am always so lost here. The only way I find anything at all is through Google searches. Right now I'm trying to understand this place's layout.
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
leahcimewol said:
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See ya.
leahcimewol said:
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See ya.
leahcimewol said:
Yup same here from me. In general, have not found the XDA mods and Devs very helpful at all unless you're part of the inner circle of geek. Without wasting any more of my time trying to find a simple answer to a simple question on this convoluted diabolical forum I'm going to just join another more helpful more friendly, less up my own arse type of forum where you don't need to be a tech geek to get an answer.
Thanks for nothing XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
K bye!
Ciao!
It's turning into a bye bye thread
I admit my post is not helpful