Develop Bugs

[Q] Should I experience problems while customizing Defy (locked bootloader)?

I'm an Android novice, never had an Android phone before. I like Motorola Defy but have some concerns, before considering buying it, as follows.
First thing: Getting rid of MotoBlur
MotoBlur software is cumbersome and unnecessary (fixed by flashing stock MB525 firmware)
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Second: dealing with locked bootloader (maybe a huge problem)
Locked bootloader means there wont be any custom ROMs for the phone until someone is able to get past it without bricking theirs.
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However, I've seen custom ROMs here, such as Defy: How to install Custom ROM, BlueGinger 2.3 UI ROM for Defy, etc.
The bootloader is what loads up the operating system in very simple terms. By locking or signing it, it means that we need to present Motorola's certificate every time we want to load a custom ROM/kernel.
Though what he says is true, you can still root the phone, install pseudo-custom ROMs (they are all right here in the forums) and do tons of other things.
This is still a great great phone though and probably the best in the market in my opinion.
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A friend wrote me this:
As I can see, it has MIUI, CM7, etc, the most important ROMs are already there, if it gets more popular, more ROMs will be available. Once you unlock bootloader, be careful not to lock it again, i.e. do not use the official update. I never had Defy, but I think it should be done relatively easily, maybe not easy as with HTC Desire, for instance.
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I found this on the forum:
Locked Bootloader means that you can't boot an unsigned Kernel.
All the Custom rom you can find for the Defy are made from official and signed ROM, no Kernel mods etc . (These are just mod of actual rom, non "new ROM" from AOSP i.e.)
That's why you can't have a full custom ROM with Custom Kernel (unless Motorola release a ROM with this Kernel signed)
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And this:
So what are the ways can we improve overall performance on the kernel level?
As of today you can't
Sorry. I don't like being the one that delivers bad news, but unfortunately for users due moto's locked bootloader policy, they have essentially locked us all out of the most valuable component of the computer technology we purchased. MOTO FAIL!
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Does it change something?
Correct me if I'm wrong, these custom ROMs are not really custom, since kernel part can not be changed. Does that affect speed & other customizations -- really do not know. Am I wrong?
Thank you for reading this. If you think Defy is too complicated you may suggest another phone in that price range (GSM, not CDMA, unlocked).

Is there a way to bypass dootloader?

owim said:
Is there a way to bypass dootloader?
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according to my habits it doesn't bother me to see moto logo every time , but living in android world (2.1) before getting the second update for a long time it's nasty.
so i think in case u wanna buy something real cool try to check htc daulboot which never has loader problem.
that's my personal opinion but comparing it's features (defy) to other similar releases (sony ericsson) or etc it's really cool , plus all add the reality of power of combining the processor requirement . 800 mhz to 1.2 ghz
so enjoy whith moto logo.

reply
these are some really good questions. I am in the same boat as the OP. Any replies to his questions would be great

moto says they are going to unlock the bootloader by year's end... hope they keep their promise.

Will they unlock all models or just the new ones? I am afraid i already know the answer to that question - "we dont know yet" .

I guess the answer is that customizing Defy everything would be more complicated than HTC Desire or Samsung Galaxy S.
I don't wanna spend days in playing with the phone, trying to get off Motoblur and put nice custom ROM.
So, I would move to Desire or Galaxy... even though I don't want to. Would you agree?

I'm on CM7, it's fast and stable, with good battery life, themes and much more.
As soon as camera gets completely fixed i will be able not to care at all about a locked bootloader!

owim said:
I guess the answer is that customizing Defy everything would be more complicated than HTC Desire or Samsung Galaxy S.
I don't wanna spend days in playing with the phone, trying to get off Motoblur and put nice custom ROM.
So, I would move to Desire or Galaxy... even though I don't want to. Would you agree?
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well..if you think customizing Defy is complicated so galaxy s will also be.
Desire has more stable roms an it is the right choose for who is interested in hard modding and for sure you will spend a whole day too

Mikis89 said:
I'm on CM7, it's fast and stable, with good battery life, themes and much more.
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So, you did find a way to bypass locked bootloader and all other stuff I don't really get, and have CM7 is up and running? Is it complicated? Is there a downside?
As soon as camera gets completely fixed i will be able not to care at all about a locked bootloader!
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What's wrong with camera?
menonino said:
well..if you think customizing Defy is complicated so galaxy s will also be.
Desire has more stable roms an it is the right choose for who is interested in hard modding and for sure you will spend a whole day too
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But Galaxy S does not have locked bootloader. I'm a total novice. Defy with CM7 sounds great, but how to get from standard Defy with Motoblur to CM7? As s novice? I am sure you can understand my perspective.
My final choice would be one of these: Defy, Desire or Galaxy S. I like Defy since is smaller and rigged. Knowing all that, care to share an advice? I'm a novice, never used Android before.

owim said:
So, you did find a way to bypass locked bootloader and all other stuff I don't really get, and have CM7 is up and running? Is it complicated? Is there a downside?
What's wrong with camera?
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Bootloader is still locked, but take a look here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1033654
I made it without problems, but i see many reports of bootloops etc...
Camera preview doesn't always match with the picture taken, at least in widescreen mode.
Just tried to use the "defy camera hack":
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1064124
Lost widescreen mode but pictures look much better.
Beside this no problems at all, it's stable, fast and battery last more than a single day with average use.

well the thing is for our phones *motorola* our boot loaders are locked but we are using pseudo roms. so mostly we have partial roms. no change in the kernel which have extra functions. all our roms are based on a leak or some official release from motorola. boot loops are mostly due to incorrect versions flashed on non down gradable versions or just a simple thing like a step over looked * most of our roms require a wipe, so dalvik and a factory restore is needed as some apps are incompatible when you flash*

reaperzero said:
well the thing is for our phones *motorola* our boot loaders are locked but we are using pseudo roms. so mostly we have partial roms. no change in the kernel which have extra functions. all our roms are based on a leak or some official release from motorola. boot loops are mostly due to incorrect versions flashed on non down gradable versions or just a simple thing like a step over looked * most of our roms require a wipe, so dalvik and a factory restore is needed as some apps are incompatible when you flash*
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So what exactly "extra functions" does having an unlocked bootloader give you? from what I've seen I can't tell the difference

gladius999 said:
So what exactly "extra functions" does having an unlocked bootloader give you? from what I've seen I can't tell the difference
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what i meant was that we dont get the extra functions. what we get is more or less cosmetic changes and some mods

My advice: Buy Defy and enjoy it! (trust me, you will enjoy it)
Keep it stock for few days to make sure that everything is ok with it and to reach max battery potential (3-4 times 0-100% & 100-0%) and after go for any ROM you want, they all are great (I am using barebones and i can tell you that this is 120% working)

stefa_vr6 said:
My advice: Buy Defy and enjoy it! (trust me, you will enjoy it)
Keep it stock for few days to make sure that everything is ok with it and to reach max battery potential (3-4 times 0-100% & 100-0%) and after go for any ROM you want, they all are great (I am using barebones and i can tell you that this is 120% working)
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well said. also barebones is really bare. so have fun customizing and installing your apps to your preference

reaperzero said:
what i meant was that we dont get the extra functions. what we get is more or less cosmetic changes and some mods
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lol what i meant to ask was what cool functions do we miss out on which unlocked bootloaders have?

Whether my ideas are stupidity or genius, it's up to you.

If flashtool can flash stock roms with a locked bootloader, why not the custom ones? I was thinking, what if you could fool the phone into thinking the software is stock when it's really not?
Also, regarding fastboot, if it's possible to remotely access a dongle, shouldn't it be possible to write a script that does the same thing as the dongle itself? I'd be willing to donate and start a bounty for any dev up to the task.
Another thing I thought of is this: if a hole in adb allows us to root, can it not be applied to do other things as well? If you can push system files through adb for themes, I see no reason why installing a recovery would be impossible.
Bear in mind that although I'm not a noob, I'm sure as hell not an expert or developer (though eventually in the future I want to develop) so if there are limitations preventing these things please explain what they are instead of calling me a fool.
Also, on a side note, just how difficult is the script work for Android apps? My previous coding experience is with a game server program called eAthena, if anyone is familiar and can use that for comparison.
Sent from the best phone ever

Nice ideas but i'm now about to disapoint you lol
1) The roms we flash with flashtool are signed by sony, if we was to try to flash an u unsigned rom, with a locked bootloader, s1 boot would politely tell us to F-off, flashtool or not ......
2) The dongle you are on about is used in conjunction with setool, afaik the dongle just contains account info but maybe im wrong. Eitherway its setool that does the hard work not the dongle.
3) This is not a new idea, i have had devices beofre where you could use adb/terminal to push a recovery image..... But we have no acess to /boot/ partition while device is booted and thus no way to replace kernel.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

So basically, we need someone to write a program similar to setool, but one that doesn't need credits, in order to unlock fastboot, correct?
Surely someone around here would have the knowledge to do it. Freedom to customize should be available to all, not just people who can buy credits, imo.
Personally, I'm poor and could only get the phone caused I saved money for 2 months and signed a contact. Surely I'm not the only user with a tight wallet.
I say we put up a bounty to encourage the developers around here. I would much rather donate some cash towards the development of a free tool for everyone, as opposed to a single unlock just for myself.
Sent from the best phone ever

captain67 said:
So basically, we need someone to write a program similar to setool, but one that doesn't need credits, in order to unlock fastboot, correct?
Surely someone around here would have the knowledge to do it. Freedom to customize should be available to all, not just people who can buy credits, imo.
Personally, I'm poor and could only get the phone caused I saved money for 2 months and signed a contact. Surely I'm not the only user with a tight wallet.
I say we put up a bounty to encourage the developers around here. I would much rather donate some cash towards the development of a free tool for everyone, as opposed to a single unlock just for myself.
Sent from the best phone ever
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blagus and the omnius team have to ability to write such a tool, as they already have with omnius, that can also unlock bootloaders, but i doubt they would be intrested as that would take away there business

Yeah I knew about them already.. I meant someone else.. Lol
Also, I don't suppose it'd be possible to spoof a ROM so s1 boot thinks it's signed, is it? (I suspect that would be illegal, and therefore not something done on these forums)
Sent from the best phone ever

captain67 said:
Yeah I knew about them already.. I meant someone else.. Lol
Also, I don't suppose it'd be possible to spoof a ROM so s1 boot thinks it's signed, is it? (I suspect that would be illegal, and therefore not something done on these forums)
Sent from the best phone ever
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I don't think it's illegal to do that, but i do think it's impossible. Otherwise someone would of done it by now.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk

AndroHero said:
I don't think it's illegal to do that, but i do think it's impossible. Otherwise someone would of done it by now.
Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk
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It's not illegal but when a TFT is "Signed" it simply isn't a bit that's turned on or something, it's actually a pretty large encrypted section of code. You'd have to decrypt it which would take freaking forever if at all possible. When I had my Atrix before we got the BL unlocked we tried to decrypt the code (Which was worse than the play probably) and someone figured out how long it would take to manually decrypt it. Something like 120 years running 24/7 on an i7 (I'm not kidding it was mathematically figured to be somewhere around that). If course you could get lucky and get it tomorrow but you'd have better odds winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning on a sunny day at the same time.

If there's one thing I learned from these forums it's saying something is impossible one day,and BAM it's there the next day,no big deal...
So what I'm trying to say is,there is always a workaround,but we need someone to find it...
And by the way,cant the signature just be copied? I mean if hundreds of people downloaded and used the same .ftf file...it doesn't seem unique,or that the phone has something to compare it to...
The stupidity of my posts increase over time

Read up on signing and PKI here: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Code_signing
This post also has a good explanation on encrypted bootloaders (different device, same theory): http://androidforums.com/droid-x-all-things-root/113171-official-droid-x-encrypted-bootloader-efuse-thread-13.html#post1455071
The short answer is that it's theoretically possible that there could be an exploit, than would allow you to bypass and flash unsigned firmware. However, the fact that you can do it without this (via paid methods) means that it's unlikely anyone would spend so much time investigating.

Best way

Hi all
Just got an Inc 2. why else would I be posting here ,,,, anyhow I gotta have root mainly just to remove bloat, really undecided on which way though, HTC unlock or a full S off through the downgrade revolutionary method, I'm not realy a flashaholic, I would like to be able to use set CPU or the likes, for battery savings and maybe a little overclocking, phone seems pretty responsive if you ask me just coming from an Eris but I haven't loaded any apps on it yet either, heck I haven't even activated it yet (guess it's a little hard to let Ginger go ) I'd post a screen shot of her but she's a little shy.
So what's everyone thoughts on this if you had just recieved a brand new Incredible 2, with 2.3.4 Gingerbread, 5.10.605.9, 2.6.35.9 kernel; and now the news of Official ICS update soon to be released which way would you go to root HTC or S off?
Can you overclock/undervolt stock kernel?
Is it possible to flash a different kernel?
Any and all input on this will be greatly appriciated, Thanks In Advance

JRngln said:
Hi all
Just got an Inc 2. why else would I be posting here ,,,, anyhow I gotta have root mainly just to remove bloat, really undecided on which way though, HTC unlock or a full S off through the downgrade revolutionary method, I'm not realy a flashaholic, I would like to be able to use set CPU or the likes, for battery savings and maybe a little overclocking, phone seems pretty responsive if you ask me just coming from an Eris but I haven't loaded any apps on it yet either, heck I haven't even activated it yet (guess it's a little hard to let Ginger go ) I'd post a screen shot of her but she's a little shy.
So what's everyone thoughts on this if you had just recieved a brand new Incredible 2, with 2.3.4 Gingerbread, 5.10.605.9, 2.6.35.9 kernel; and now the news of Official ICS update soon to be released which way would you go to root HTC or S off?
Can you overclock/undervolt stock kernel?
Is it possible to flash a different kernel?
Any and all input on this will be greatly appriciated, Thanks In Advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're gonna wanna downgrade and s-off. It's easier to flash ROMs, also you can flash radios that way. It's a slightly longer process to do so, but its worth not spending extra time when flashing ROMs. Mainly because you have to flash the kernel in fastboot if you use HTC unlock.
Sent From My Mikrunny'd Superphone Using Magic (TapaTalk)

Thanks for your quick response, thats just it I'm not realy a flashaholic and if I see a rom that I would like to flash, a little extra work wouldn't bother me stability speed and no issues have presedence for me, not worried about look at what I got, just overall balanced goodness

JRngln said:
Thanks for your quick response, thats just it I'm not realy a flashaholic and if I see a rom that I would like to flash, a little extra work wouldn't bother me stability speed and no issues have presedence for me, not worried about look at what I got, just overall balanced goodness
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As far as that goes, you'll see no difference in performance. So, just as far as easier to setup, I'd go with s-off.
Sent From My Mikrunny'd Superphone Using Magic (TapaTalk)

tylerlawhon said:
As far as that goes, you'll see no difference in performance. So, just as far as easier to setup, I'd go with s-off.
Sent From My Mikrunny'd Superphone Using Magic (TapaTalk)
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My brain is all befuddled now with all the reading I've been doing and I forget does downgrading revert the radio?

JRngln said:
My brain is all befuddled now with all the reading I've been doing and I forget does downgrading revert the radio?
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It doesn't. It downgrades the hboot version. Now, if you s-off, you can flash any radio you wish. The recommended one is either the latest .1111 or .0722.
Sent From My Mikrunny'd Superphone Using Magic (TapaTalk)

tylerlawhon said:
It doesn't. It downgrades the hboot version. Now, if you s-off, you can flash any radio you wish. The recommended one is either the latest .1111 or .0722.
Sent From My Mikrunny'd Superphone Using Magic (TapaTalk)
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Yes I have the latest.1111 with 2.3.4 Gingerbread, 5.10.605.9, kernel 2.6.35.9, it downgrades more than just the hboot doesn't it? I thought it downgraded the whole OS.

It will put you back to 2.2 or 2.3 I think but it does not affect radio. You van then flaws one of the rooms based off the latest stock update ( what you have) if that's what you want. Also, you can't oc stock kernel, use dresdills 21. Also if u use the HTC method you are guaranteed void warranty cause they know what you done. If you use other method you can revert to completely stock if you need too and they will never know if you need to because of hardware issues. Charging ports have been known to go bad so I would keep that in mind...
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA App

jeremytn86 said:
It will put you back to 2.2 or 2.3 I think but it does not affect radio. You van then flaws one of the rooms based off the latest stock update ( what you have) if that's what you want. Also, you can't oc stock kernel, use dresdills 21. Also if u use the HTC method you are guaranteed void warranty cause they know what you done. If you use other method you can revert to completely stock if you need too and they will never know if you need to because of hardware issues. Charging ports have been known to go bad so I would keep that in mind...
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA App
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Yes I've heard about that kernel, I'm pretty sure that once you root they know it cause all there tracking, or most of there tracking software goes offline for them, and they know that the only reason, for the most part, that the phone dissapeared is root. I thought htc unlock still gave you a warranty although more limitted. And yes I learned from the Eris when the phone is on the charger be extra extra carefull with it, even if it meens don't touch it.

Root doesn't take out anything, and I'm not sure what tracking your referring to anyways. The only way anything would be took out is if you do it, or the rom you install does. If they know you done it, and you think it may be more limited, that's just a way of saying now we have a reason to deny you anytime we feel like it. But if your set on that, do it, not gonna argue its your phone could care less, you wanted opinions you got it, either way good luck...
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA App

jeremytn86 said:
Root doesn't take out anything, and I'm not sure what tracking your referring to anyways. The only way anything would be took out is if you do it, or the rom you install does. If they know you done it, and you think it may be more limited, that's just a way of saying now we have a reason to deny you anytime we feel like it. But if your set on that, do it, not gonna argue its your phone could care less, you wanted opinions you got it, either way good luck...
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA App
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I never said that root in and of itself took out anything, it's the stuff we take out once we root. Your not sure what tracking I'm referring to, Look up Carrier IQ .
I charged this phone turned it on bypassed activation shut off the networks just to play around with it and it was still reporting network traffic, How, Why?
This phone has the ability to get past the switch thats thrown when you shut off your data connections. I did just activate the phone, I had forgot to turn data back on before doing so, but it didn't matter; after phone booted up and was settling in I saw the 3g icon pop up in the status bar, thats what reminded me, [I thought I shut that off] and sure enough it was still off, yet it still sent data, but where to? I'm not set on anything yet, yes I'm trying to get many opinions and I thank you for your input this phones been out for a while now and many things have changed since it was first released, like ICS, and htc unlock of the hboot. Much of the activity about rooting this phone is a year or more old and with the deals and such that are being thrown around now to move the remaning stock off shelves there will be ( I'm sure ) many newcomers to the phone and this forum so an updated collection of thoughts on this I figured would be welcome especially if there was some input from the veterans of this phone. And again thank you

JRngln said:
I never said that root in and of itself took out anything, it's the stuff we take out once we root. Your not sure what tracking I'm referring to, Look up Carrier IQ .
I charged this phone turned it on bypassed activation shut off the networks just to play around with it and it was still reporting network traffic, How, Why?
This phone has the ability to get past the switch thats thrown when you shut off your data connections. I did just activate the phone, I had forgot to turn data back on before doing so, but it didn't matter; after phone booted up and was settling in I saw the 3g icon pop up in the status bar, thats what reminded me, [I thought I shut that off] and sure enough it was still off, yet it still sent data, but where to? I'm not set on anything yet, yes I'm trying to get many opinions and I thank you for your input this phones been out for a while now and many things have changed since it was first released, like ICS, and htc unlock of the hboot. Much of the activity about rooting this phone is a year or more old and with the deals and such that are being thrown around now to move the remaning stock off shelves there will be ( I'm sure ) many newcomers to the phone and this forum so an updated collection of thoughts on this I figured would be welcome especially if there was some input from the veterans of this phone. And again thank you
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Click to collapse
Our phones dont have carrier IQ...

Zax_Was_Here said:
Our phones dont have carrier IQ...
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Click to collapse
Are you sure? And I hope your right . Still our privacy is being taken away from us more and more each and every day

JRngln said:
Are you sure? And I hope your right . Still our privacy is being taken away from us more and more each and every day
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verizon htc phones do not have any CIQ at all (at least as of gb)

nitsuj17 said:
verizon htc phones do not have any CIQ at all (at least as of gb)
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I know that that's what they had said Officially But I OFFICIALLY have my doubts . Have you ever checked it out with the app?

JRngln said:
I know that that's what they had said Officially But I OFFICIALLY have my doubts . Have you ever checked it out with the app?
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Click to collapse
as a matter of fact yes i have, our stock rom 5.xx is clean
the ports may or may not have it (depending if it was cleaned out or not by individual dev) but since its not running on the phone/carrier it was meant to, it wouldnt properly function
honestly i never really cared that much, i think the ciq drama was blown out of proportion

nitsuj17 said:
as a matter of fact yes i have, our stock rom 5.xx is clean
the ports may or may not have it (depending if it was cleaned out or not by individual dev) but since its not running on the phone/carrier it was meant to, it wouldnt properly function
honestly i never really cared that much, i think the ciq drama was blown out of proportion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad to hear that.
Blown out of proportion? Not really, Think about it you send someone a text messg and CIQ knew what the text said BEFORE your intended recipient even recieved it,....... before you even sent it!

JRngln said:
I'm glad to hear that.
Blown out of proportion? Not really, Think about it you send someone a text messg and CIQ knew what the text said BEFORE your intended recipient even recieved it,....... before you even sent it!
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Click to collapse
idk, doesnt really affect me...but the Sprint guys were all up in arms about it...mabye if i had a phone that it was an issue on id care more

Anyways, I flashed a custom ROM and CIQ would be gone anyways. I think nowadays we have to realize that we are going to always be tracked in some way.

JRngln said:
I'm pretty sure that once you root they know it cause all there tracking, or most of there tracking software goes offline for them, and they know that the only reason, for the most part, that the phone dissapeared is root.
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Click to collapse
Yep, I checked, it appears you did say that, but anyways... things are easier with the s off alpha rev x method but the other way will work too so whatever floats your boat...
Sent from my Incredible 2 using XDA App

[Q] Will be possible in future S-OFF?

Hello Dear XDa'er
I bought myself the HTC one X and I wanted to ask if possible in the future would be S-OFF? I dare not htcdev on the way because of the warranty.
Thank you for your answers.
Ps: sorry for my bad English

FordSierra88 said:
Hello Dear XDa'er
I bought myself the HTC one X and I wanted to ask if possible in the future would be S-OFF? I dare not htcdev on the way because of the warranty.
Thank you for your answers.
Ps: sorry for my bad English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only time will tell

FordSierra88 said:
Hello Dear XDa'er
I bought myself the HTC one X and I wanted to ask if possible in the future would be S-OFF? I dare not htcdev on the way because of the warranty.
Thank you for your answers.
Ps: sorry for my bad English
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S-Off is not guaranteed to come at any time. It may do, but as far as I know Revolutionary has been stumped at the latest HBoots.
Also, illegitemate S-Offing is not going to rescue your warranty necessarily, and neither is using HTC-Dev going to totally break your warranty:
http://htcdev.com/bootloader/ said:
Please understand that you will not be able to return your device to the original state and going forward your device may not be held covered under the warranty for all claims resulting from the unlocking of the bootloader. HTC bears no responsibility if your device is no longer usable afterwards.
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Click to collapse
Their point is that they won't repair under warranty anything that breaks as a result of unlocking the bootloader.
There isn't any hard-and-fast rule here, and people have reported different experiences, but it's better than nothing!

Sorry to ask this... i consider myself not a noob on android, rooting etc, but for some reason S-OFF has passed me by... what is S-OFF?

torespen said:
Sorry to ask this... i consider myself not a noob on android, rooting etc, but for some reason S-OFF has passed me by... what is S-OFF?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
S-Off is (in my understanding) essentially full control over all partitions (including CID which controls network lock etc.), radio partitions, etc.
HTC-Dev provides a semi S-Off bootloader state, allowing you to write to all system partitions EXCEPT the above (and possibly others that I've forgotten about).
The advantages of full S-Off are: able to carrier-unlock phone for free, able to update radio without flashing official HTC ROMs, able to revert to S-On fairly simply.
With HTC-Dev, although you can "re-lock" your bootloader, the phone reports as "re-locked" rather than "locked".
(I may be making all of this up but it is my understanding based on my research).

qpop said:
Their point is that they won't repair under warranty anything that breaks as a result of unlocking the bootloader.
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Click to collapse
That would mean that your warranty would remain identical, only bricked devices wouldn't be repaired. (If you limit yourself to installing roms, that is)

H-Cim said:
That would mean that your warranty would remain identical, only bricked devices wouldn't be repaired. (If you limit yourself to installing roms, that is)
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Click to collapse
Problem being if you read through their examples about overclocking etc and killing your cpu. It's very easy to say that some hardware has failed due to custom rom etc.
Now I have a nooby question too. I come from a desire which was prior to bootloader-gate (oh sigh, i did one of those). AFAIK our bootloader was unlocked from the factory so we could flash stuff straight up. S-OFF was pretty easy as well so we could do whatever we wanted pretty much
AFAIK, without unlocking bootloader, the best we can do is flash stock roms and attain root (once a stock bootloader method is available) but we can't get into custom roms/kernels without unlock? I'm pretty much at the point where I want to start tinkering with things... but just wonder if it's worth waiting, or if I should just go and htcdev unlock my phone now
I am a little wary of the warranty implications above, that is the only reason i hesitate.
M.

The S stands for Security

mattman83 said:
I am a little wary of the warranty implications above, that is the only reason i hesitate.
M.
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Click to collapse
Me too

H-Cim said:
That would mean that your warranty would remain identical, only bricked devices wouldn't be repaired. (If you limit yourself to installing roms, that is)
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Click to collapse
Well, possibly. As mentioned above, it's possible that the manufacturer could argue that, e.g. screen issue was due to overclock of CPU, overheating of glue holding screen resulting in the problem.
In reality I doubt that would happen, as (in the UK at least) under warranty it falls on the manufacturer to prove that the problem was due to a non-warranty problem. The CPU won't "remember" that it's been overclocked, and so with a factory reset I can't see how they could tell.
mattman83 said:
Problem being if you read through their examples about overclocking etc and killing your cpu. It's very easy to say that some hardware has failed due to custom rom etc.
Now I have a nooby question too. I come from a desire which was prior to bootloader-gate (oh sigh, i did one of those). AFAIK our bootloader was unlocked from the factory so we could flash stuff straight up. S-OFF was pretty easy as well so we could do whatever we wanted pretty much
AFAIK, without unlocking bootloader, the best we can do is flash stock roms and attain root (once a stock bootloader method is available) but we can't get into custom roms/kernels without unlock? I'm pretty much at the point where I want to start tinkering with things... but just wonder if it's worth waiting, or if I should just go and htcdev unlock my phone now
I am a little wary of the warranty implications above, that is the only reason i hesitate.
M.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think since HTCDev started there has been far less S-On rooting, for two reasons. First of all, why bother? We can attain mostly-S-Off "legitimately" so why waste energy working out how to root S-On. Secondly, the lock-down of the OS has got better with every iteration, and, at least on recent phones, no hack has been discovered (again, there's less incentive to try due to HTCDev).
xmoo said:
The S stands for Security
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
D'oh, meant to type that and forgot. Lol

qpop said:
I think since HTCDev started there has been far less S-On rooting, for two reasons. First of all, why bother? We can attain mostly-S-Off "legitimately" so why waste energy working out how to root S-On. Secondly, the lock-down of the OS has got better with every iteration, and, at least on recent phones, no hack has been discovered (again, there's less incentive to try due to HTCDev).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point taken
So basically it's harder to do than ever and less incentive to do than ever. Solution... go do htcdev I actually signed up for the site a while reading the thread, just waiting for the (apparently very slow) confirmation email. No work tomorrow due to good friday so I suspect my phone might get some ARHD love
I think warranty laws in australia are similar to what you say. Using non-genuine ink in printer they can't void your entire warranty, only if they can prove the ink was the issue. Slightly different issue, it's not like you've just hacked your printer firmware to increase print speeds or something... but I get what you mean.
M.
Edit - signed up again on different email and got activation stuff immediately - silly. Noticed they need to update the unlock page though... first step "remove and reinsert the battery" heh
Edit 2 - all done

xmoo said:
The S stands for Security
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought it stood for 'Safety'
Sent from my 'HTC One X' using XDA Premium

Excellent explanation and discussion by qpop and mattman on S-off thing. All I needed to know as new HTC user.
Sent either from my Arc or One X using xda premium

For those waiting for S-OFF by Revolutionary, it looks like you are very unlikely to get it. Baadnewz just asked in the #alpharev channel if the One would get S-OFF:
[19:46] <baadnewz> IEF you have any plans for ONE ? :B
[19:46] <baadnewz> (kick incoming)
[19:47] <burgd> To Krait or not To Krait
[19:56] <_anonymous> you got one bnz?
[19:58] * gabryel48 ([email protected]) has joined #alpharev
[20:13] * baadnewz is now known as baad_away
[20:17] * zookii ([email protected]/zookii) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[20:20] * zookii ([email protected]/zookii) has joined #alpharev
[20:20] <@IEF> baad_away: One X is pretty unlikely, we focus on qualcomm stuff.
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Click to collapse
That's a real shame that. I guess now it's either HTCDev or nothing.

Odd reply, the XL (or X 4G) is going to be the far less popular device, I don't know why you would intentionally look at something that's going to get that much less usage?
M.

Evil-Dragon said:
For those waiting for S-OFF by Revolutionary, it looks like you are very unlikely to get it. Baadnewz just asked in the #alpharev channel if the One would get S-OFF:
That's a real shame that. I guess now it's either HTCDev or nothing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a shame.. Guess I'll roll with S-ON in a few days if there's no word of any further progress.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Well according to Paul over at Modaco, S-Off is being worked on.
http://android.modaco.com/topic/352...s-mac-and-linux/page__p__1932154#entry1932154

f3nd3r said:
Well according to Paul over at Modaco, S-Off is being worked on.
http://android.modaco.com/topic/352...s-mac-and-linux/page__p__1932154#entry1932154
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Click to collapse
Cool, anyone know if it will be possible to go from S-ON to S-OFF?
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Might as well reply here, then.
The One X is a completely different architecture (nvidia tegra), with it's own set of restrictions/security measures. Therefore, it felt it was not wise to get peoples' hopes up, and simply said it's 'unlikely'. There's really no point in asking for 'plans', you don't plan on finding exploits.
mattman83 said:
Odd reply, the XL (or X 4G) is going to be the far less popular device, I don't know why you would intentionally look at something that's going to get that much less usage?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's One S and One XL which run on Snapdragon S4. Who says it will be 'far less popular' ? Because you say so?
If you knew a bit about architectural differences and our focus on Qualcomm-chipset phones in the past, then maybe you wouldn't find the reply so odd. I find your reply superficial. Does that help the discussion? Nope.

Sorry if I offended, that was not my intention. I'm a huge fan of what you've done in the past (being a Desire user). I do appreciate the difference between the phones and I get that even though the UI is basically identical, alot of the underlying parts are vastly different.
I also get that you do have more experience with the qualcomm since that's where you've focused in the past (and also the provider HTC have used most - the tegra is a little different for them).

To Unlock or not to Unlock. That is the question

Guys i am torn. One minute i want to unlock through HTC dev website but on the other hand i want to wait for the S-OFF exploit. Not just that, wondering if i unlock will i still be able to get OTA updates still? I know i will do from what i read but few more confirmations would probably ease my mind.
Had a year my galaxy s2 and was lucky enough that the s2 was already unlocked. Not a stranger to rooting but coming over to the HTC One x and reading on instructions on how to root kinda gets me worried.
What do you think guys? Development i am sure will be picking up but do you think it is worth to unlock through the dev site and if so why please.
Many thanks.

The OneX is really easy to root and the nvidia tegra tweak is well worth it

The One X honestly isn't that hard to root.
Just need to unlock the bootloader - then install recovery and then obviously flash a rooted ROM.
Great instructions from bagofcrap24 here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1592355
The best thing for me after rooting was getting rid of the three dot menu button that takes up screen space on some apps. Using LeeDroid's ROM, I now have the Recent Apps button mapped to Menu and long pressing Home mapped to Recent Apps.

gifton1 said:
The One X honestly isn't that hard to root.
Just need to unlock the bootloader - then install recovery and then obviously flash a rooted ROM.
Great instructions from bagofcrap24 here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1592355
The best thing for me after rooting was getting rid of the three dot menu button that takes up screen space on some apps. Using LeeDroid's ROM, I now have the Recent Apps button mapped to Menu and long pressing Home mapped to Recent Apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i know mate...it is really a question of when to do it...i mean i do not get as to why they do not come unlocked already though...what is the big deal of them locking the bootloader..that is one of the things that made me go for the s2 over the sensation. cause it was so easy to root through odin. might do it today and unlock and root

Waiting for our great developers to unlock it.
Not a fan of the whole warranty thing via the official HTC unlock tool...

Foggy79 said:
Waiting for our great developers to unlock it.
Not a fan of the whole warranty thing via the official HTC unlock tool...
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Click to collapse
see that is the problem that is holding me back Foggy mate. some people say it does not void your warranty some say it does. The actual website says it does void your warranty...Kinda confusing if you ask me. I mean i had my s2 for a whole year before i sold it and it never died on me. But i am really not willing to take the risk with the HOX just yet.

NoobTerminator said:
see that is the problem that is holding me back Foggy mate. some people say it does not void your warranty some say it does. The actual website says it does void your warranty...Kinda confusing if you ask me. I mean i had my s2 for a whole year before i sold it and it never died on me. But i am really not willing to take the risk with the HOX just yet.
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Click to collapse
To be fair it says
"It is our responsibility to caution you that not all claims resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader may be covered under warranty."
I think there's def the emphasis on "resulting or caused by or from the unlocking of the bootloader"
So if yo have a warranty issue that isn't affected by unlocking the bootloader you should be fine.

Foggy79 said:
Waiting for our great developers to unlock it.
Not a fan of the whole warranty thing via the official HTC unlock tool...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

animaleyes76 said:
So if yo have a warranty issue that isn't affected by unlocking the bootloader you should be fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And who will decide if your problem comes or doesn't come from unlocking and doing stuff on it?
Thats my point, it's just to easy for a repair center to say "yup that is possibly caused by unlocking and moddifying your device".
It voids your warranty if they decide to do so, if they even slightly suspect the unlock/modding has anything to do with the failure.
It's your word against theirs...
Like I said, not in a hurry, the Devs will get it unlocked anyway, just a matter of time, and that way I don't have to worry about warranty.

Foggy79 said:
And who will decide if your problem comes or doesn't come from unlocking and doing stuff on it?
Thats my point, it's just to easy for a repair center to say "yup that is possibly caused by unlocking and moddifying your device".
It voids your warranty if they decide to do so, if they even slightly suspect the unlock/modding has anything to do with the failure.
It's your word against theirs...
Like I said, not in a hurry, the Devs will get it unlocked anyway, just a matter of time, and that way I don't have to worry about warranty.
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Click to collapse
spot on with that mate. hence why i opened this thread cause you do not know what might be said hence why this is the only bad thing about the HOX that it does not come with an unlock bootloader

anyone had any news on how far through they are with unlocking the bootloader. I really want to get the battery fix installed but am also a little weary about the warranty thing. I got a feeling that if they know your bootloaders been unlocked theyll end up blaming that for the failure even if it wasnt due to it. Saying that my other tab has the htcdev site open so im currently back and fore about using the htcdev site.

NoobTerminator said:
spot on with that mate. hence why i opened this thread cause you do not know what might be said hence why this is the only bad thing about the HOX that it does not come with an unlock bootloader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kinda understand why they want to lock it, and offer an unlock with certain warranty issues..
They need to cover themselves ofcourse, otherwise everyone with a bricked device (due to their own fault mostly) is sending back their device for a free repair
I'm happy they left backdoors (official and possible non-official) to unlock the bootloader, think if they want they could have just closed up everything to have it never unlocked again
---------- Post added at 01:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------
Appsdroid said:
anyone had any news on how far through they are with unlocking the bootloader. I really want to get the battery fix installed but am also a little weary about the warranty thing. I got a feeling that if they know your bootloaders been unlocked theyll end up blaming that for the failure even if it wasnt due to it. Saying that my other tab has the htcdev site open so im currently back and fore about using the htcdev site.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you can use your device without any major issues i'dd wait a bit. The device is only 2 weeks out and i'm sure ppl are on to it, we need to give them some time, no need to rush things.

Foggy79 said:
Kinda understand why they want to lock it, and offer an unlock with certain warranty issues..
They need to cover themselves ofcourse, otherwise everyone with a bricked device (due to their own fault mostly) is sending back their device for a free repair
I'm happy they left backdoors (official and possible non-official) to unlock the bootloader, think if they want they could have just closed up everything to have it never unlocked again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true true. and yeah we kinda forget sometimes that this phone has only been out two weeks now. i love it specially i got my replacement and is grey or shall i say Gun Grey Metallic.. love saying that. And probs best to wait for the exploit. Kiinda similar to the chainfire app he has for the s2 now. thanks mate and stock anyway is running well for now...but i am getting itches to flash..so many sexy roms out there

I really want to root so I can lock Sense in memory but I am going to hold off until the screen banding issue is resolved. I am confident it will be fixed by an OTA but if it isn't I don't want to create any excuse not to honour the warranty.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Chartist said:
I really want to root so I can lock Sense in memory but I am going to hold off until the screen banding issue is resolved. I am confident it will be fixed by an OTA but if it isn't I don't want to create any excuse not to honour the warranty.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
i want to root as well mate to get rid of all the bloatware. i mean even disabling stuff does not really give me confidence enough that some of the services are frozen and take up memory..anyway i can still can be patient and wait..love this phone

Guys, if you think your device so far got no hardware issues, It's time to unlock. Getting rid of the annoying menu button alone is a big reason enough to unlock.
Been switching ROMs already for a couple of days and it's fun, the excitement is high lol. Anyway, there is still no custom kernels yet for overclocking so you don't need to worry of frying your CPU. Customization and theming won't hurt your hardware.
So there, go for it, UNLOCK!
Btw, don't flame for my advice lol.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Rycon33 said:
Guys, if you think your device so far got no hardware issues, It's time to unlock. Getting rid of the annoying menu button alone is a big reason enough to unlock.
Been switching ROMs already for a couple of days and it's fun, the excitement is high lol. Anyway, there is still no custom kernels yet for overclocking so you don't need to worry of frying your CPU. Customization and theming won't hurt your hardware.
So there, go for it, UNLOCK!
Btw, don't flame for my advice lol.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
might hold off for a little while longer. hopefully we shall see some AOKP roms

I would say unlock, your warranty will still cover hardware issues and well software issues, you can fix them yourself

NoobTerminator said:
might hold off for a little while longer. hopefully we shall see some AOKP roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see your predicament! it is a tough one.
Would love to see AOKP as well. Watched an interview with Roman tho and he didnt seem too interested in the One x for some reason and said there were no current plans to develop for it. Although, even if they dont support the One X officially, it will hopefully get ported at some point.

gifton1 said:
I see your predicament! it is a tough one.
Would love to see AOKP as well. Watched an interview with Roman tho and he didnt seem too interested in the One x for some reason and said there were no current plans to develop for it. Although, even if they dont support the One X officially, it will hopefully get ported at some point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well we could only hope..i will be honest i kinda have a slight regret selling my s2 as the development for that handset is smoking hot at the moment. but regarding my HOX i am kinda itching to unlock but on the other hand voices tell me to wait for a few more days..i know development will be huge for this phone as it is the flagship. but there are few niggly things that are starting to annoy me and that might push me towards unlocking through HTC dev site
i mean stock as it is at the moment i am more than happy with..but like any phone this has some minor issues but hoping that the update we are waiting for will sort this for me