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First of all Im new to the forum so hello lol
I have a question about qualcomm...I know that the scorpion processor in the next generation 45 nm chip but what I dont understand is why is it clocked at 800mhz?
The made it such a big deal crossing the 1ghz mark and I would assume that they would never look back. I might not have my facts straight but dosent the 45 nm run clock-cycles just like a 65 nm but more efficiently in respect of battery consumption.
It looks as if they wanted to get in on the low-end Android market share. As for the G2 which I love, my friend ran quadrant pro infront of me and it shows the cpu was scored what looked like 20% lower than the nexus one at 2.2 (my guess from looking at it) but of coarse the gpu trashed the nexus one.
I saw a interview on engadget about a week ago about googles executive that said soon there will be a clear distinction or line between low end Android and high end Android devices. I wonder if HTC is in contact with google about future updates in order to release devices adequate enough to run them or are they just blindly releasing high build quality devices lol
Sorry about the long post but I had come up with a few questions that I didn't want to ask anywhere else.
Thanks.
Wait until our geniuses figure out root then you can happily run it a 1 Ghz+. If you look at the spec scheets for the MSM7230 then you will see it's rated for speeds 800-1000. Higher speeds=lower battery life, so the reasons for having it clocked lower are very practical. My G2 can average 1600-1650 on quadrant, so I don't think it's that bad.
azzeh3 said:
First of all Im new to the forum so hello lol
I have a question about qualcomm...I know that the scorpion processor in the next generation 45 nm chip but what I dont understand is why is it clocked at 800mhz?
The made it such a big deal crossing the 1ghz mark and I would assume that they would never look back. I might not have my facts straight but dosent the 45 nm run clock-cycles just like a 65 nm but more efficiently in respect of battery consumption.
It looks as if they wanted to get in on the low-end Android market share. As for the G2 which I love, my friend ran quadrant pro infront of me and it shows the cpu was scored what looked like 20% lower than the nexus one at 2.2 (my guess from looking at it) but of coarse the gpu trashed the nexus one.
I saw a interview on engadget about a week ago about googles executive that said soon there will be a clear distinction or line between low end Android and high end Android devices. I wonder if HTC is in contact with google about future updates in order to release devices adequate enough to run them or are they just blindly releasing high build quality devices lol
Sorry about the long post but I had come up with a few questions that I didn't want to ask anywhere else.
Thanks.
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MHz is a misleading statistic to judge performance by. A 1GHz processor is not guaranteed to be faster than an 800MHz one. What is always true, though, is that a given processor running at 1GHz will take more energy than the same processor running at 800MHz. Because these new processors are so fast, even at 800MHz, they are competitive or even faster than any other phone on the market today. However by clocking them a bit slower, they also have quite serviceable battery life.
In daily use, it is unlikely that you would notice much difference between 800MHz and 1GHz with this cpu. They are both plenty fast, and most of the time the CPU will be waiting for you, not the other way around. However if it were clocked at 1GHz, you would immediately see a shorter battery life, so to my mind the sacrifice is well worth it.
As far as any fears that this might be a "low end phone", make no mistake, this is the premiere Android phone on the market right now. The Droid 2 may have a higher profile, but it is slower, has a slower network, and uses a non-standard GUI (not to mention a whole lot more expensive when you factor in the price of the service). No phone will have every possible feature that people want, but as far as raw capabilities go, there is no better phone on the market today as far as I can see.
Those seem to be very valid points and thanks for the input..
One other thing when exactly do you need 1ghz of processing speed?? I mean back in the day the macbook air used a 1.5 ghz processor..
Also where dose the ram come into play?
azzeh3 said:
Those seem to be very valid points and thanks for the input..
One other thing when exactly do you need 1ghz of processing speed?? I mean back in the day the macbook air used a 1.5 ghz processor..
Also where dose the ram come into play?
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RAM is a far bigger determiner of performance on a day-to-day basis than processor speed, at least to a point. You could have a 10GHz computer, but if you only had 64k of RAM it would crawl along miserably slow.
In either case, there is a point of diminishing returns, though as applications become more demanding that point gets higher and higher. I remember selling Mac's back in the early-mid 90's and telling eople, don't worry, 16Megs of RAM (a huge amount back then when the standard was 4MB) would handle anything they could throw at it. Little did I know that just 15 years later I would have 500x that much in my desktop and 32x as much in my cell phone!
I am by no means a Andoid systems expert, but from what I have read there is not much benefit of having more than 512MB of RAM with the current versions of the Android OS. I would have preferred that they included 1GB of RAM just for a future growth path, but I can understand why they didn't. Each of these features costs money, so you have to draw the line someplace, you can't included every feature people may ask for in every phone.
Your right lol How will the big companies make any money if they give you everything you wanted....
I've never kept a phone for more than 8 months because of updated stats but lately there is a boom in technology so its going to be more like 4 months now hahaha
So with the new Dual Core phones coming out I'm wondering... What's all the hullabaloo?
I just finished reading the Moto Atrix review from Engadget and it sounds like crap. They said docking to the ridiculously priced webtop accessory was slow as shiz.
Anyone who knows better, please educate me. I'd like to know what is or will be offered that Dual Core will be capable of that our current gen phones will NOT be capable of.
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life. If we end up having more data intensive apps and Android becomes more powerful multi-core cpu's will help a lot also. Naturally Android will need to be broken down and revamped to utilize multiple cores to their full potential though. At some point I can see Google using more or merging a large part of the desktop linux kernel to help with that process.
At the rate Android (and smart phones in general) is progressing, someday we may see a 64bit OS on a phone, we will definitely need multi-core cpu's then. I know, it's a bit of a dream but it's probably not too elaborate.
KCRic said:
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life.
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I'd really, REALLY like to know how you came to that particular conclusion. While a dual core might not eat through quite as much wattage as two single cores, one that takes less is pure snakeoil IMO. I have yet to see a dual core CPU that is rated lower than a comparable single core on the desktop. Why would this be different for phones?
Software and OSes that can handle a dual core CPU need additional CPU cycles to manage the threading this results in, so if anything, dual core CPUs will greatly, GREATLY diminish battery life.
The original posters question is valid. What the heck would one need dual core CPUs in phones for? Personally, I can't think of anything. Running several apps in parallel was a piece of cake way before dual CPUs and more power can easily be obtained through increasing the clock speed.
I'm not saying my parent poster is wrong, but I sure as heck can't imagine the physics behind his statement. So if I'm wrong, someone please enlighten me.
I can see dual cores offering a smoother user experience -- one core could be handling an audio stream while the other is doing phone crap. I don't see how it could improve battery life though....
The theory is that two cores can accomplish the same thing as a single core while only working half as hard, I've seen several articles stating that dual cores will help battery life. Whether that is true I don't know.
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Kokuyo, while you do have a point about dual cores being overkill in a phone I remember long ago people saying "why would you ever need 2gb of RAM in a PC" or "who could ever fill up a 1tb hard drive."
Thing is wouldnt the apps themselves have to be made to take advantage of dual cores as well?
JBunch1228; The short-term answer is nothing. Same answer as the average joe asking what he needs a quad-core in his desktop for. Right now it seems as much a sales gimmick as anything else, since the only Android ver that can actually make use of it is HC. Kinda like the 4G bandwagon everyone jumped on, all marketing right now.
Personally, I;d like to se what happens with the paradigm the Atrix is bringing out in a year or so. Put linux on a decent sized SSD for the laptop component, and use the handset for processing and communications exclusivley, rather than try and use the 'laptop dock' as nothing more than an external keyboard
As far as battery life, I can see how dual-cores could affect it positively, as a dual core doesnt pull as much power as two individual cores, and, if the chip is running for half as long as a single core would for the same operation, that would give you better batt life. Everyone keep in mind I said *if*. I don't see that happening before Q4, since the OS and apps need to be optimized for it.
My $.02 before depreciation.
Then there are the rumors of mobile quad-cores from Nvidia by Q4 as well. I'll keep my single core Vision, and see whats out there when my contract ends. We may have a whole new world.
KCRic said:
For one thing (my main interest anyway) dual core cpu's and beyond give us better battery life. If we end up having more data intensive apps and Android becomes more powerful multi-core cpu's will help a lot also. Naturally Android will need to be broken down and revamped to utilize multiple cores to their full potential though. At some point I can see Google using more or merging a large part of the desktop linux kernel to help with that process.
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Wow, that's complete nonsense.
You can't add parts and end up using less power.
Also, Android needs no additional work to support multiple cores. Android runs on the LINUX KERNEL, which is ***THE*** choice for multi-core/multi-processor supercomputers. Android applications run each in their own process, the linux kernel then takes over process swapping. Android applications also are *already* multi-threaded (unless the specific application developer was a total newb).
At the rate Android (and smart phones in general) is progressing, someday we may see a 64bit OS on a phone, we will definitely need multi-core cpu's then. I know, it's a bit of a dream but it's probably not too elaborate.
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What's the connection? Just because the desktop processor manufacturers went multi-core and 64bit at roughly the same time doesn't mean that the two are even *slightly* related. Use of a 64bit OS on a phone certainly does ***NOT*** somehow require that the processor be multi-core.
dhkr234 said:
Wow, that's complete nonsense.
You can't add parts and end up using less power.
Also, Android needs no additional work to support multiple cores. Android runs on the LINUX KERNEL, which is ***THE*** choice for multi-core/multi-processor supercomputers. Android applications run each in their own process, the linux kernel then takes over process swapping. Android applications also are *already* multi-threaded (unless the specific application developer was a total newb).
What's the connection? Just because the desktop processor manufacturers went multi-core and 64bit at roughly the same time doesn't mean that the two are even *slightly* related. Use of a 64bit OS on a phone certainly does ***NOT*** somehow require that the processor be multi-core.
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The connection lies in the fact that this is technology we're talking about. It continually advances and does is at a rapid rate. No where in it did I say we'll make that jump 'at the same time'. Linux is not ***THE*** choice for multi-core computers, I use Sabayon but also Win7 seems to do just fine with multiple cores. Android doesn't utilize multi-core processors to their full potential and also uses a modified version of the linux kernel (which does fully support multi-core systems), that's whay I made the statement about merging. Being linux and being based on linux are not the same thing. Think of iOS or OSX - based on linux but tell me, how often do linux instuctions work for a Mac?
"you can't add parts and use less power", the car industry would like you clarify that, along with the computer industry. 10 years ago how much energy did electronics use? Was the speed and power vs. power consumption ratio better than it is today? No? I'll try to give an example that hopefully explains why consumes less power.
Pizza=data
People=processors
Time=heat and power consumption
1 person takes 20 minutes to eat 1 whole pizza while 4 people take only 5 minutes. That one person is going to have to work harder and longer in order to complete the same task as the 4 people. That will use more energy and generate much more heat. Heat, as we know, causes processors to become less efficient which means more energy is wasted at the higher clock cycles and less information processed per cycle.
It's not a very technical explanation of why a true multi-core system uses less power but it will have to do. Maybe ask NVidia too since they stated the Tegra processors are more power efficient.
KCRic said:
The connection lies in the fact that this is technology we're talking about. It continually advances and does is at a rapid rate. No where in it did I say we'll make that jump 'at the same time'. Linux is not ***THE*** choice for multi-core computers, I use Sabayon but also Win7 seems to do just fine with multiple cores.
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Show me ***ONE*** supercomputer that runs wondoze. I DARE YOU! They don't exist!
Android doesn't utilize multi-core processors to their full potential and also uses a modified version of the linux kernel (which does fully support multi-core systems), that's whay I made the statement about merging. Being linux and being based on linux are not the same thing.
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??? No, being LINUX and GNU/LINUX are not the same. ANDROID ***IS*** LINUX, but not GNU/LINUX. The kernel is the kernel. The modifications? Have nothing to do with ANYTHING this thread touches on. The kernel is FAR too complex for Android to have caused any drastic changes.
Think of iOS or OSX - based on linux but tell me, how often do linux instuctions work for a Mac?
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No. Fruitcakes does NOT use LINUX ***AT ALL***. They use MACH. A *TOTALLY DIFFERENT* kernel.
"you can't add parts and use less power", the car industry would like you clarify that, along with the computer industry. 10 years ago how much energy did electronics use? Was the speed and power vs. power consumption ratio better than it is today? No? I'll try to give an example that hopefully explains why consumes less power.
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Those changes are NOT RELATED to adding cores, but making transistors SMALLER.
Pizza=data
People=processors
Time=heat and power consumption
1 person takes 20 minutes to eat 1 whole pizza while 4 people take only 5 minutes. That one person is going to have to work harder and longer in order to complete the same task as the 4 people. That will use more energy and generate much more heat. Heat, as we know, causes processors to become less efficient which means more energy is wasted at the higher clock cycles and less information processed per cycle.
It's not a very technical explanation of why a true multi-core system uses less power but it will have to do. Maybe ask NVidia too since they stated the Tegra processors are more power efficient.
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You have come up with a whole lot of nonsense that has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to multiple cores.
Energy consumption is related to CPU TIME.
You take a program that takes 10 minutes of CPU time to execute on a single-core 3GHz processor, split it between TWO otherwise identical cores operating at the SAME FREQUENCY, add in some overhead to split it between two cores, and you have 6 minutes of CPU time on TWO cores, which is 20% *MORE* energy consumed on a dual-core processor.
And you want to know what NVIDIA will say about their bloatchips? It uses less power than *THEIR* older hardware because it has **SMALLER TRANSISTORS** that require less energy.
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
dhkr234 said:
Show me ***ONE*** supercomputer that runs wondoze. I DARE YOU! They don't exist!
??? No, being LINUX and GNU/LINUX are not the same. ANDROID ***IS*** LINUX, but not GNU/LINUX. The kernel is the kernel. The modifications? Have nothing to do with ANYTHING this thread touches on. The kernel is FAR too complex for Android to have caused any drastic changes.
No. Fruitcakes does NOT use LINUX ***AT ALL***. They use MACH. A *TOTALLY DIFFERENT* kernel.
Those changes are NOT RELATED to adding cores, but making transistors SMALLER.
You have come up with a whole lot of nonsense that has ABSOLUTELY NO relation to multiple cores.
Energy consumption is related to CPU TIME.
You take a program that takes 10 minutes of CPU time to execute on a single-core 3GHz processor, split it between TWO otherwise identical cores operating at the SAME FREQUENCY, add in some overhead to split it between two cores, and you have 6 minutes of CPU time on TWO cores, which is 20% *MORE* energy consumed on a dual-core processor.
And you want to know what NVIDIA will say about their bloatchips? It uses less power than *THEIR* older hardware because it has **SMALLER TRANSISTORS** that require less energy.
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
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If you think that its just a gimmick or trend then why does every laptop manufacturer use dual core or more and have better battery life than the old single core? Sometimes trends do have more use than aesthetic appeal. Your know-it-all approach is nothing new around here and you're not the only person who works in IT around. Theories are one thing but without any proof when ALL current tech says otherwise... makes you sound like a idiot. Sorry...
I bet I can pee further
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
zaelia said:
I bet I can pee further
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
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The smaller ones usually can, I think it has to do with the urethra being more narrow as to allow a tighter, further shooting stream.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
TJBunch1228 said:
The smaller ones usually can, I think it has to do with the urethra being more narrow as to allow a tighter, further shooting stream.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
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Well, you would know
sino8r said:
Well, you would know
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It might be short but it sure is skinny.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
sino8r said:
If you think that its just a gimmick or trend then why does every laptop manufacturer use dual core or more and have better battery life than the old single core? Sometimes trends do have more use than aesthetic appeal. Your know-it-all approach is nothing new around here and you're not the only person who works in IT around. Theories are one thing but without any proof when ALL current tech says otherwise... makes you sound like a idiot. Sorry...
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+1
I was comparing speeds on the Atrix compared to the [email protected] and they matched. The Atrix was much more efficient on heat and probably with battery. The dual cores will use less power because the two cores will be better optimized for splitting the tasks and will use half the power running the same process as the single core because the single core runs at the same voltages for a single core compared to splitting it between two. Let's not start a flame war and make personal attacks on people
Sent from my HTC Vision with Habanero FAST 1.1.0
It is disturbing that there are people out there who can't understand this VERY BASIC engineering.
Voltage, by itself, has NO MEANING. You are forgetting about CURRENT. POWER = CURRENT x VOLTAGE.
Battery drain is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to POWER. Not voltage. Double the voltage and half the current, power remains the same.
Dual core does NOT increase battery life. It increases PERFORMANCE by ***DOUBLING*** the physical processing units.
Battery life is increased through MINIATURIZATION and SIMPLIFICATION, which becomes *EXTREMELY* important as you increase the number of physical processing units.
It is the epitome of IGNORANCE to assume that there is some relation when there is not. The use of multiple cores relates to hard physical limitations of the silicon. You can't run the silicon at 18 GHz! Instead of racing for higher frequencies, the new competition is about how much work you can do with the SAME frequency, and the ***EASIEST*** way to do this is to bolt on more cores!
For arguments sake, take a look at a couple of processors;
Athlon II X2 240e / C3.... 45 watt TDP, 45 nm
Athlon II X4 630 / C3.... 95 watt TDP, 45 nm
Same stepping, same frequency (2.8 GHz), same voltage, same size, and the one with twice the cores eats more than twice the power. Wow, imagine that!
The X4 is, of course, FASTER, but not by double.
Now lets look at another pair of processors;
Athlon 64 X2 3800+ / E6.... 89 watt TDP, 90 nm
Athlon II X2 270u / C3.... 25 watt TDP, 45 nm
Different stepping, SAME frequency (2.0 GHz), same number of cores, different voltage, different SIZE, WAY different power consumption. JUST LOOK how much more power the older chip eats!!! 3.56 times as much. Also note that other power management features exist on the C3 that didn't exist on the E6, so the difference in MINIMUM power consumption is much greater.
Conclusion: There is no correlation between a reduction in power consumption and an increase in the number of PPUs. More PPUs = more performance. Reduction in power consumption is related to size, voltage, and other characteristics.
dhkr234 said:
Don't quite your day job, computer engineering is NOT YOUR FORTE.
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Good job on being a douche. I didn't insult you in anything I said and if you disagree over my perspective then state it otherwise shut up. I didn't tell you english grammar isn't your forte so maybe you should keep your senile remarks to yourself.
You seem to want to argue over a few technicalities and I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in computer engineering but then again I doubt you do either. For the average person to begin to understand the inner-workings of a computer requires you to set aside the technical details and generalize everything. When they read about a Mac, they will see the word Unix which also happens to appear in things written about Linux and would inevitably make a connection about both being based off of the same thing (which they are). In that sense, I'm correct - you're wrong. The average person doesn't differentiate between 'is' and 'based off', most people take them in the same context.
So I may be wrong in some things when you get technical but when you're talking to the average person that thinks the higher the CPU core clock is = the better the processor, you end up being wrong because they won't give a damn about the FSB or anything else. Also, when you start flaming people and jumping them over insignificant things you come off as a complete douche. If I'm wrong on something then tactfully and politely correct me - don't try to act like excerebrose know-it-all. Let's not even mention completely going off track about about Windoze, servers aren't the only things that have multi-core processors.
I'm sure you'll try to multi-quote me with a slew of unintelligent looking, lame comebacks and corrections but in the end you'll just prove my point about the type of person you are. ****The End****
KCRic said:
Good job on being a douche. I didn't insult you in anything I said and if you disagree over my perspective then state it otherwise shut up. I didn't tell you english grammar isn't your forte so maybe you should keep your senile remarks to yourself.
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Agreeing or disagreeing is pointless when discussing FACTS. Perspective has nothing to do with FACTS. You can think whatever you like, but it doesn't make you right.
You seem to want to argue over a few technicalities and I'll admit, I don't have a PhD in computer engineering but then again I doubt you do either.
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Common mistake, assuming that everybody is the same as you. Try not to make that assumption again.
For the average person to begin to understand the inner-workings of a computer requires you to set aside the technical details and generalize everything.
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Generalizations lead to inaccuracies. You do not teach by generalizing, you teach by starting from the bottom and building a foundation of knowledge. Rene Descartes (aka Renatus Cartesius, as in Cartesian geometric system, as in the father of analytical geometry) said that the foundation of all knowledge is that doubting one's own existence is itself proof that there is someone to doubt it -- "Cogito Ergo Sum" -- "I think therefore I am". Everything must begin with this.
When they read about a Mac, they will see the word Unix which also happens to appear in things written about Linux and would inevitably make a connection about both being based off of the same thing (which they are). In that sense, I'm correct - you're wrong. The average person doesn't differentiate between 'is' and 'based off', most people take them in the same context.
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... and need to be CORRECTED for it. The two kernels (the only components relevant to this discussion) are completely different! MACH is a MICRO kernel, Linux is a MONOLITHIC kernel. Superficial characteristics (which are OUTSIDE of the kernel) be damned, they are NOT the same thing and thinking that they are is invalid. The average person is irrelevant, FACTS are FACTS.
So I may be wrong in some things when you get technical but when you're talking to the average person that thinks the higher the CPU core clock is = the better the processor, you end up being wrong because they won't give a damn about the FSB or anything else.
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So are you trying to tell me that IGNORANCE is BLISS? Because "giving a damn" or not has NO BEARING on reality. The sky is blue. You think that its purple and don't give a damn, does that make it purple? No, it does not.
Also, when you start flaming people and jumping them over insignificant things you come off as a complete douche. If I'm wrong on something then tactfully and politely correct me - don't try to act like excerebrose know-it-all. Let's not even mention completely going off track about about Windoze, servers aren't the only things that have multi-core processors.
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Right, servers AREN'T the only thing running multi-core processors, but did you not read where I SPECIFICALLY said **SERVERS**? Wondoze is off track and UNRELATED. I brought up servers because THEY USE THE SAME KERNEL AS ANDROID. If a supercomputer uses Linux, do you not agree that Linux is CLEARLY capable of multiprocessing well enough to meet the needs of a simple phone?
I'm sure you'll try to multi-quote me with a slew of unintelligent looking, lame comebacks and corrections but in the end you'll just prove my point about the type of person you are. ****The End****
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... perfectionist, intelligent, PATIENT in dealing with ignorance. And understand that ignorance is not an insult when it is true, and contrary to common "belief", does NOT mean stupid. Learn the facts and you will cease to be ignorant of them.
So hopefully this train can be put back on the tracks...
From what I am understanding from more technical minded individuals, Dual Core should help with battery life because it requires less power to run the same things as single core. It can then probably be extrapolated that when pushed, Dual Core will be able to go well above and beyond its Single Core brethren in terms of processing power.
For now, it appears the only obvious benefit will be increased battery life and less drain on the processor due to overworking. Hopefully in the near future more CPU and GPU intensive processes are introduced to the market which will fully utilize the Dual Core's potential in the smartphone world. Thanks for all the insight.
dhkr234 - *slaps air high-five*
Hey everyone
As seen on this review: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568348/galaxy-nexus-review (not sure if it is the final unit) the galaxy nexus is great in terms of both hardware and software but there are three reasons still persisting as to why I shouldn't buy the Galaxy Nexus
1.) The hardware could get obsoleted fairly quickly.
Although (as the review states) the phone is blazing fast, the hardware is only considered great in relation to other phones. (E.g. the Nexus One had the best hardware when compared to the G1 but when the Atrix was announced, it became fairly obsoleted) This could be a problem because right now the phone might have excellent hardware (and software), in a few months when CES 2012 comes along it is rumoured that there will be quad core phones which will greatly surpass the speed of our current-day phones (e.g. http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/15/r...ndroid-4-0-with-a-2-5ghz-quad-core-processor/) I know that nothing can substitute for pure vanilla android, the most recent updates from Google and huge developer base but the fact that technological advancements are only becoming more and more prominent and that within a year or so with the introduction of new apps and games, I feel that one year from now, the galaxy nexus might be like the G1 of today. (If anyone has any contradictory reasons, please state them as I really want to purchase a Galaxy Nexus and get rid of my Motorola Milestone (international version of OG droid)
2.) The battery might not suffice for a full day's use.
The only way I can consider my motorola milestone as a viable quality smartphone is if I overclock it to 1GHz (from 550mhz) and apply various tweaks which in turn only let me use the device for 5-7 hours max. If this is the case wit h the Galaxy Nexus, I probably won't want to buy it as I use my phone extensively and I don't want the hassle of charging every night (or at least every 5-7 hours)
3.) This one is not a huge issue for me but it may be in the future. With the gaming market actively expanding in terms of smartphones, with the way-obsoleted GPU that this phone packs, I fear that I may not be able to play a lot of games in the future.
most 'reviewers' are probably not charging the battery when they receive the phone, instead opting to insert the battery right away after opening the box and starting up the phone without charging.
this leads to inconclusive reviews regarding the battery life.
just a thought.
oscillik said:
most 'reviewers' are probably not charging the battery when they receive the phone, instead opting to insert the battery right away after opening the box and starting up the phone without charging.
this leads to inconclusive reviews regarding the battery life.
just a thought.
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You're right. As stated in the review, they haven't tested the battery extensively, and they said they would update the review with the new battery findings in the future
1) what do you mean could get obsolete?
it is already obsolete except for the 720 HD screen LOL
2) you might be right about that, we'll see how many hour this 1750 mAh battery can pull
3) you also forgot to mention about the lack of space for the ever increasing storage space required to play a game
mohitrocks said:
Hey everyone
As seen on this review: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568348/galaxy-nexus-review (not sure if it is the final unit) the galaxy nexus is great in terms of both hardware and software but there are three reasons still persisting as to why I shouldn't buy the Galaxy Nexus
1.) The hardware could get obsoleted fairly quickly.
Although (as the review states) the phone is blazing fast, the hardware is only considered great in relation to other phones. (E.g. the Nexus One had the best hardware when compared to the G1 but when the Atrix was announced, it became fairly obsoleted) This could be a problem because right now the phone might have excellent hardware (and software), in a few months when CES 2012 comes along it is rumoured that there will be quad core phones which will greatly surpass the speed of our current-day phones (e.g. http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/15/r...ndroid-4-0-with-a-2-5ghz-quad-core-processor/) I know that nothing can substitute for pure vanilla android, the most recent updates from Google and huge developer base but the fact that technological advancements are only becoming more and more prominent and that within a year or so with the introduction of new apps and games, I feel that one year from now, the galaxy nexus might be like the G1 of today. (If anyone has any contradictory reasons, please state them as I really want to purchase a Galaxy Nexus and get rid of my Motorola Milestone (international version of OG droid)
2.) The battery might not suffice for a full day's use.
The only way I can consider my motorola milestone as a viable quality smartphone is if I overclock it to 1GHz (from 550mhz) and apply various tweaks which in turn only let me use the device for 5-7 hours max. If this is the case wit h the Galaxy Nexus, I probably won't want to buy it as I use my phone extensively and I don't want the hassle of charging every night (or at least every 5-7 hours)
3.) This one is not a huge issue for me but it may be in the future. With the gaming market actively expanding in terms of smartphones, with the way-obsoleted GPU that this phone packs, I fear that I may not be able to play a lot of games in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Every phone will be outdated in a year....If thats a big deciding factor u may never get a phone.
Sent From Samsung Vibrant
I have to confirm what they said about the battery life. I charged the phone up fully before even turning it on and with heavy use (you know how it is the first day you get a new phone) I got around 7 hours out of it. With normal usage I can imagine it lasting a full work day but if you are a heavy user you probably want to look into an external or expanded battery.
As for gaming, from my tests some games really don't run very well, although it might be partly due to them not being optimised for the Nexus hardware or ICS.
To be honest though with any modern smartphones 6-8 hours is pretty much what you can expect with heavy use. I doubt you will find anything much better. If gaming is important I suggest you hold off getting a Galaxy Nexus though. Right now it's not looking too good.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Chrono_Tata said:
To be honest though with any modern smartphones 6-8 hours is pretty much what you can expect with heavy use. I doubt you will find anything much better. If gaming is important I suggest you hold off getting a Galaxy Nexus though. Right now it's not looking too good.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
probably it just need some optimization
but compared to the SGS2 T989 it sure it's lacking a bit there
the T989 on stock can easily pull 14 hr ~ 18 hr with moderate use, and if you are light use, then you can get over a day with that phone
see here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1301609
Issues 1 and 2 apply to pretty much any smartphone you get nowadays. So STi489's statement is quite accurate.
I'll refrain from commenting on #3 because I don't do mobile gaming, so don't really know/care a lot about modern phone GPUs.
1. Every phone is obsolete 3-6 months after its made as technology is always advancing. Its similar to buying a pc if you need to buy one you get the best you can afford at that time. If you want something thats going to be future proof then you will never get anything as its just not possible. You can hold out for a quad core phone if you want but they wont start appearing for 3-6 months at least and then if you get one of those an 8-core phone maybe 9 months away from that so what are you going to do? The Galaxy Nexus can handle everything that will be thrown at it right now and it will always get the latest updates as soon as they are released by google which I think is more important than the speed of the phone.
2. As mentioned many times the battery tests are not thorough enough to be of any value but with any modern smartphone you arent going to get much more than 8-10 hours intensive use which should be more than enough to get you through a day without problems. If you think you are going to get a phone with an HD screen and dual or quad core processor to last 2-3 days you are dreaming. Leave it in standby most of the time and use it sparingly then yes but with moderate use a day is quite sufficient. You can buy 4800mAh backup chargers for about £20 which is what im getting instead of another battery and should be able to recharge your phone 2 or 3 times.
3. Im pretty sure there wont be many games in the next year that require a quad core phone as they wont have much of a target market. Dual core phones will easily be able to handle any game thrown at it for the foreseable future and it can easily be clocked to at LEAST 1.5GHz which is what its designed to run at so if you need extra speed you can get it. The iphone 4s only runs at 800MHz and look what that can do.
Mark.
mskip said:
1. Every phone is obsolete 3-6 months after its made as technology is always advancing. Its similar to buying a pc if you need to buy one you get the best you can afford at that time. If you want something thats going to be future proof then you will never get anything as its just not possible. You can hold out for a quad core phone if you want but they wont start appearing for 3-6 months at least and then if you get one of those an 8-core phone maybe 9 months away from that so what are you going to do? The Galaxy Nexus can handle everything that will be thrown at it right now and it will always get the latest updates as soon as they are released by google which I think is more important than the speed of the phone.
2. As mentioned many times the battery tests are not thorough enough to be of any value but with any modern smartphone you arent going to get much more than 8-10 hours intensive use which should be more than enough to get you through a day without problems. If you think you are going to get a phone with an HD screen and dual or quad core processor to last 2-3 days you are dreaming. Leave it in standby most of the time and use it sparingly then yes but with moderate use a day is quite sufficient. You can buy 4800mAh backup chargers for about £20 which is what im getting instead of another battery and should be able to recharge your phone 2 or 3 times.
3. Im pretty sure there wont be many games in the next year that require a quad core phone as they wont have much of a target market. Dual core phones will easily be able to handle any game thrown at it for the foreseable future and it can easily be clocked to at LEAST 1.5GHz which is what its designed to run at so if you need extra speed you can get it. The iphone 4s only runs at 800MHz and look what that can do.
Mark.
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Click to collapse
Mostly I agree with you, but on point 3 you mixed something up. iPhone 4s has a very capable (if not the best released) dual-core GPU, the PowerVR SGX 543MP2, while GN is using a overclocked PowerVR SGX 540. It is still more than capable though, but you're mixing up CPU with GPU in your post. Just wanted to clarify that.
Cheers
qwer23
qwer23 said:
Mostly I agree with you, but on point 3 you mixed something up. iPhone 4s has a very capable (if not the best released) dual-core GPU, the PowerVR SGX 543MP2, while GN is using a overclocked PowerVR SGX 540. It is still more than capable though, but you're mixing up CPU with GPU in your post. Just wanted to clarify that.
Cheers
qwer23
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Click to collapse
Point taken I was watching tv at the time while I was typing and wasnt thinking too much lol .
Mark.
the Gnex comes with a 1750mAh
I suppose it would last me 2-3 days (maybe i'm wrong) and I'm a light user
my friend's SGS2 lasts 2-3 days to him with light to moderate usage BUT not always connected
and I hope on what I assume will be true and hope the Gnex's battery life is better than my iP4 so it would be really an upgrade for me as I am not also connected to wifi and stay with 2G only..
I just hope Samsung will release an official extended battery (3000ish) with a kick stand (like those for HD2). It would be great.
I'm just concerned about how the GPU will cope in playing games. Otherwise, I can't wait until Sat/Sun for T-Mobile to get this in stock.
soullinker20 said:
the Gnex comes with a 1750mAh
I suppose it would last me 2-3 days (maybe i'm wrong) and I'm a light user
my friend's SGS2 lasts 2-3 days to him with light to moderate usage BUT not always connected
and I hope on what I assume will be true and hope the Gnex's battery life is better than my iP4 so it would be really an upgrade for me as I am not also connected to wifi and stay with 2G only..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With WIFI off and using only 2G I think the battery life would be very good. Constant updates to social networking sites can be a real battery killer on todays phone.
luffyp said:
I just hope Samsung will release an official extended battery (3000ish) with a kick stand (like those for HD2). It would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would indeed be good but extremely unlikely
Mark.
mskip said:
With WIFI off and using only 2G I think the battery life would be very good. Constant updates to social networking sites can be a real battery killer on todays phone.
Mark.
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Click to collapse
thank you!
this would be a worthy upgrade from my iP4 imo. I'm prepared to switch to Android now
but I still have to wait 2-3 weeks before this phone arrives here @ the Philippines.
Thank you all so much for the replies!
I do believe I have changed my mind
1.) Yeah, even though the phone will be obsoleted in 3-6 months, all phones will likely to be obsoleted at a time close to their initial release.
2.) I don't mind buying another external battery for my phone, guess I never thought about it (Mark, what do you mean by: "You can buy 4800mAh backup chargers for about £20 which is what im getting instead of another battery and should be able to recharge your phone 2 or 3 times." Is this a charger than can supply battery on the go? Because I go to high school [yeah im 15 years old] and having an extra battery or charger works for me)
3.)I barely game anyways, and there are plenty of games that can still run on the gpu.
soullinker20 said:
thank you!
this would be a worthy upgrade from my iP4 imo. I'm prepared to switch to Android now
but I still have to wait 2-3 weeks before this phone arrives here @ the Philippines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well at least that will give you time to read reviews from people who are using the phone and see how its performing in the real world before you order it.
Mark.
mohitrocks said:
Thank you all so much for the replies!
I do believe I have changed my mind
1.) Yeah, even though the phone will be obsoleted in 3-6 months, all phones will likely to be obsoleted at a time close to their initial release.
2.) I don't mind buying another external battery for my phone, guess I never thought about it (Mark, what do you mean by: "You can buy 4800mAh backup chargers for about £20 which is what im getting instead of another battery and should be able to recharge your phone 2 or 3 times." Is this a charger than can supply battery on the go? Because I go to high school [yeah im 15 years old] and having an extra battery or charger works for me)
3.)I barely game anyways, and there are plenty of games that can still run on the gpu.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something like *THIS*. Its basically a huge capacity rechargeable battery that you can plug any usb device into to charge it. In my opinion more practical than buying replacement batterys as you dont have to turn the phone off to keep going. It could even be used as a rechargeable led torch lol..
Im sure you could find one that can be delivered to your location with a google search.
Mark.
1. It only need optimizations. and Ice Cream Sandwich is the start of the long awaited hardware optimization that Android needs.
2. User dependent. and Galaxy Nexus has that feature that any iphone doesn't have. A replaceable battery. So you could bring an extra battery for emergencies. But i really do think that 1750mah can last you a day
3. GPU is still very capable to handle games. Again, just like no.1 all it needs is optimizations. Besides, i don't see game developers focusing on making games that can only run on a very very very powerful GPU.
A few users in the kernel asked about this subject. So I'm going to answer some questions, and provide some information and understanding here about what a "cpu bin" means (/d/acpuclk/pvs_bin) and more importantly, what it means to us as users.
I'll go ahead and snip my response from the kernel thread to get things rolling here so we can get a basic idea of it, and have an analogy to put into physicality of how this can be compared to something less "mysterious" for the every day guy wanting to understand.
Your CPU bin is the result of your device's inspection and test criteria at the Qualcomm factory. Basically a high bin CPU like a 5 or 6 is a very well made chip and very stable with very little imperfections in the manufacturing process. What this means for a HIGH bin is that the chip requires less voltage to operate at any frequency than, say, a bin 1. This is why you see some people having reboot issues when trying to under volt - their processor becomes unstable with less juice because of less accurate tolerances.
Think of it as friction. If you have a well oiled arm on a machine, and part of that arm's job is to force it's way through an opening repeatedly, and the tolerances on the arm and the opening are just slightly off... Well, for that "more out of tolerance" one to do the same amount of work as one that's parts were machined perfectly, it would require more force, because there is more friction inherently from a less accurate build process. Think of the machine as the CPU, the force required behind the arm being moved to carry out the work as the voltage required in your chip, and the tolerance of the parts as the same - just a different types of parts because of course, it is an analogy.
A higher CPU bin is, generally speaking, a more stable chip. Bus frequency, RAM speed, GPU speeds... Everything is directly related, in terms of stability and capable clock rate, to the chip's bin (or quality of build).
Here is an interesting article that most people will find shocking. Look at the difference is clock rates of low and high binned chips:
http://www.androidbeat.com/2013/09/difference-snapdragon-800-2-2ghz-2-3ghz/#.Uwdf2p_TnqA
Note the example of the HTC One and Galaxy S4. It is obvious that Qualcomm sold their higher end chips to Samsung, while HTC was given the less quality chips. Same chip. Same theoretical clock rate. However, the chips in the HTC One are different in 1 aspect - their build quality, and therefore, their capable clock rate and their stable clock rate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And of course the end of that article reallllyy sums up the bottom line here for those of us who like to overclock:
So, you mean to say I should avoid any Android device that uses a Snapdragon S800 SoC running at 2.2GHz, and not 2.3GHz? No! The S800 is the fastest SoC available from Qualcomm, and the slight difference in performance between the different bins should not affect your final decision at all. The S800 is more than future-proof so don’t worry about the slight difference in clock speed.
However, if you are a benchmark junkie or love to overclock your device, better get an Android device that uses the higher binned S800.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is important to note, that while there is a slight difference in performance (of course at stock speeds) there is a huge difference in stability when you start adding non-calculated variables when the processor was given it's bin number.... over clocking... and under volting - both common things that are added into a device's operation after rooting and installing a new kernel.
A small tid bit of information to think about:
A bin 6 runs the stock MAX frequency with only 950 MV...
A bin 0 runs the stock MAX frequency with 1100 MV...
150mv difference! You can see the example of my "machine analogy" can't you? Less is required, to do the same amount of work.
SO, what does all of this mean anyways? Well, to sum it all up, it simply means that you should be aware of your device's capabilities. KNOW YOUR BIN!
With a file explorer, navigate to:
Code:
/d/acpuclk/pvs_bin
And if you are running 4.4.2 KitKat:
Code:
/sys/devices/system/soc/soc0/soc_pvs
There will be a number there 0 - 6
If you are an overclock junkie, higher the number the better.
A lower number like a 0 or 1 will simply mean that you will not be able to get away with as much overclocking and under volting. You kind of just are what you are. If you are a 0 or 1, or even a 2 and you are overclocking and under volting your device and having reboots... well, luck of the draw. Your chip just needs that extra juice to operate, it is a physically binding attribute. Set, and test. Set, and test. Find out where your device is comfortable and what it can handle and accept it.
There is a lot more information that I will add later - specifically about how the different bins are more or less power friendly.
I hope this sheds some light for those who want to understand this.
For those of you wanting to know the guts (as a result of, again, PMs) Keep reading...
BREAKING IT DOWN - A Tale of Two Snapdragons
The test methods involved in "binning" chips. What I am about to explain is what, quite honestly, few people know. This is because the process of testing goes on behind closed doors at Qualcomm, but is common practice in manufacturing anything mechanical or electronic. Quality Control is why you have these "binned" CPUs. It is basically the result of a set of tests run on the chip to examine extremes in variation of fabrication of the chips. No chip, or manufactured part for that matter, is exactly the same as the next, simply because of manufacturing variables that cause the manufactured design to have slight variations or even defects. The silicon of the chip being exposed to undesirable or slightly out of "tolerance" environmental temperatures, for example, could have an effect on the quality of the end product. It is a very controlled process, and the "process corner" as it is called or design of experiments, it a process used to test, evaluate, and graph the uncontrolled moments of that particular part's manufacturing journey.
All of this translates to robustness of a design. After Qualcomm builds the processor, they want to know how this device will perform under different extreme conditions! Simple logic! If I build something, I want to know how it will handle stress, right? But I don't want to damage the ones I have already built. What they do is replicate these possible manufacturing defects in something called "corner lots". Corner lots have had manufacturing process parameters adjusted according to these extremes. They will then test the devices made from these special "test wafers". Typically, for CPUs, and I know at Qualcomm, they will run voltage tests, clock frequency, temperature.
For voltage, for example, the idea there is to push the device to it's maximum and minimum capability at various clock frequencies, to determine it's stability threshold. Any of you other Engineers out there of the electrical type (I am Mechanical, however) have heard a "shmoo plot" which is basically these test functions graphed as hard data. Based on how the chip performs, it is given a number. A well made chip has less manufacturing variation, obviously, and passes the tests with flying colors, shows very desirable characterization traits during the test method, and is given a bin 6 - just as an example. Another chip does ok, is a little less stable overall than the previous, but is still acceptable based upon the design and engineering criteria, and is given a 0 - barely passing the characterization "test".
So back to the beginning. What is CPU binning? What does the number mean?
Well, based up the pvs tables in the source code, it is obvious that the bin 6's are the ones with less VFP (variation of fabrication parameters) because they require less voltage, and at the same time are clocked higher in the GPU, CPU, and RAM and bus. Less force is required to get the job done. A bin 6 would be comparable to the car you bought that finally took a dump a 300k miles while the other one of similar make, model and year died at 200k. Variation in manufacturing. It applies to everything in industry, not just cars and machined parts made of steel. That is what the tests are designed to do. That is why your voltage tables from one device to the next will vary slightly. That is why one person can run this kernel, and this person can't and why one person can under volt their device 35mv while you cannot.
That is what your cpu "bin" represents people. Simply the physical results of some tests done by some engineers to determine your particular processor's compliance to tolerances as it was being built.
Reserved for images of pvs tables. Note the difference in the voltage tables to the right of the frequency steps.
Tmobile note 3, my number is 3. Thanks for the lesson and helpful info.
I wish you got your scale backwards, my T-Mobile Note 3 is a 1.
Edit: Checked my wife's phone and she has a 0. These phones are less than a month old. Wonder if it is just hit and miss per batch or if they started buying cheaper chips.
You are a beacon of knowledge.. Another great write up.. tappin that thanks
Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
hmmm interesting write up. I had no clue about CPU binning. Mine is a value of 5. Is there supposed to be anything else in there? It's just a 5, nothing else.
Got a 3.
I don't do any CPU tweaks, but it's nice to know for future reference.
Thx
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
rjohnstone said:
Got a 3.
I don't do any CPU tweaks, but it's nice to know for future reference.
Thx
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah this phone doesn't need overclocking. I'm stock deodexed with bloat removed and I've never once had the phone stutter or lag once and apps open consistently faster then any phone I've ever had prior to this one (including my S4). Though I do maintenance (wipe Dalvik/cache) every 3 or 4 days.
cun7 said:
With a file explorer, navigate to:
Code:
/d/acpuclk/pvs_bin
There will be a number there 0 - 6
If you are an overclock junkie, higher the number the better.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am on Project X Kit Kat rom - I used Root Explorer to see if I could locate this - I found d/ folder but I coulid not find anyhting named anything close to acpuclk/pvs_bin
maybe I am looking in the wrong place? Any guidance would be helpful...
thanks
Eric214 said:
Mine is a value of 5. Is there supposed to be anything else in there? It's just a 5, nothing else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hate you.
Sent from another galaxy
Also have a 3 on my Samsung Galaxy Note 3 (T-Mobile - Stock 4.3)
3 here
Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk
Can anybody with high bin (3-6 lets say) post top and bottom values from acpu_table in the same directory? Just wanted to see how those settings differ at 300MHz idle and 2265MHz full speed to mine with bin 1.
this thread has been addressed before, and the problem with this is that if you ever flashed a rom on your phone, then the bin number will change to that person who made the rom. therefor, the only way this works is if you never flashed a rom or you have your back up rom. Am i missing something ?
---------- Post added at 12:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:08 AM ----------
oh ok maybe i was wrong sorry
pete4k said:
Can anybody with high bin (3-6 lets say) post top and bottom values from acpu_table in the same directory? Just wanted to see how those settings differ at 300MHz idle and 2265MHz full speed to mine with bin 1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm running a 3 and I have the same settings.
300 idle and 2265 max.
Sent from my SM-N900T using xda premium
Updated post number 2 with images of the pvs table source code. Look at the difference in voltage levels based on the bin number! Quite a difference guys!
Mine doesn't have said folder lol
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
mocsab said:
I am on Project X Kit Kat rom - I used Root Explorer to see if I could locate this - I found d/ folder but I coulid not find anyhting named anything close to acpuclk/pvs_bin
maybe I am looking in the wrong place? Any guidance would be helpful...
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not there in kitkat roms.
/d/acpuclk/
Not /acpuclk/
On Kitkat it is located at:
Code:
/sys/devices/system/soc/soc0/soc_pvs
I got a cheap no-brand Chinese smartphone. We shall gloss over the wisdom of this purchase, but suffice it to say it turns out it isn't the MTK6582 quadcore with a gig of RAM that was promised. A quick peek in the options revealed a Spreadtrum SC8825 dualcore and 512 megs of RAM running 4.0.3 ICS. This was confirmed by other sources. Long story short I got another phone that's now my main one, but the Chinese one was so cheap that I took the loss as a life lesson and didn't even bother sending it back to Hong Kong, figuring a backup crappy phone is better than no backup at all.
I therefore decided to decrapify the cheapie as much as possible. I found a mention in dx's forum of a newer, better ROM for it with less crap, so I downloaded it and flashed it. Proving that I apparently can't make a good decision about this thing at all, what I now have is a phone whose settings show a "MT6582" CPU that reports itself as having four cores, plus a ludicrous 1.5GB of RAM and running Android 4.2.2. Weird thing is, the apps do in fact see this - for instance, Antutu does report four cores and all that RAM, and other benchmark apps do as well - though two of the cores are mysteriously always inactive. I know that the CPU and RAM are wrong, and I suspect the Android version is faked as well. I suspect this is what's causing some apps to misbehave; they expect specs that aren't there, and freak out and crash as a result.
Thing is, because it was showing the correct specs before the ROM flash, I know for a fact that whatever fakery is going on is exclusively at a software level. I don't know if Android does any checking on the hardware or if it just displays what the ROM's reporting, but either the checks are being bypassed or the ROM is simply reporting the wrong data.
Edit: tried cat /proc/cpuinfo in adb and got this, which shows the fakery to extend there as well.
Which brings the question: having rooted the phone and being able to access it via adb, where in the system partition do I go looking for the fakery so as to get rid of it and have, at least, a phone that reports itself as what it actually is?
Bumpy bump.