I am posting this for three reasons:
I want to offer hope to people who may otherwise run out and spend $40 at retail B&M to get a battery.
I want to raise awareness about an issue that likely has some dev contribution to it.
I did a search in all the Evo forums here for posts with "dead" "battery" and "charge" and didn't readily see this information provided.
So here is the "secret" - the charger HTC supplies when you buy your phone provides more amperage than many other chargers. It provides 1A, whereas most others supply 950mA or less, and even non-OEM ones which say 1A do not usually provide it (I know, I have some). I learned this years ago when the HTC Wizards would go completely dead and the only thing that could revive them was the stock charger.
This still applies today, even to the Evo. Night before last I went to bed and my phone was plugged via USB into a plugged in PC as it has been dozens of times before and when I woke up it was dead and would not power on. No other charger, wall or USB would work, and I was traveling so I didn't have mine. A trip to the Sprint store confirmed my phone would power on with another battery. When I got home last night I plugged into my HTC charger and within 10 seconds the light was blinking, and it was solid within 30 seconds. Now it is "fine again", but needless to say I have a backup on the way from Ebay.
Now to why I posted this in Dev, and why I think it should stay here and not in general. Here is what I was running:
MikFroyo 4.4 (upgraded from 4.3, no wipe)
Netarchy 4.2.1 cfs havs more universal (forgot to check whether SBC or not, but I know I have run SBC and MORE kernels before for a couple days at least with no issues)
Launch day Evo, hardware 003
I think if mods move this to General then many fewer devs will see it, and I do think the SBC kernel probably played a role in this thing dying. I am NOT trying to blame the SBC dev for anything - this is all my responsibility, but if others have this problem and report ROM, wipe status, hardware rev, and kernel in this thread, maybe we can isolate what causes the problem. Regardless of what is decided, everyone who flashes should know about the charger issue so I hope this helps some folks.
Mark
I've owned a Diamond, a Touch Pro, Touch Pro 2 (x2), and an EVO. They ALL came with the 1A charger. I've NEVER had a battery die.
I've also used SBC, and although it provides substantial battery life, I removed it due to the fact that LI-Ion batteries are not supposed to be HELD at a 4.2V charge. But that's beside the point here...
The point is HTC Chargers have been this way for quite some time and being phone manufacturers for 14 years, I think they have sufficient evidence that their ways work. They wouldn't put out a 1A charger if it was known for killing batteries. After 13 years and collecting feedback about them all, if this was a problem, they would have provided a different charger.
You simply got a bad egg. It happens. Batteries are known for getting bad ones every now and again.
This also does NOT belong in the development forum... because there's nothing developers can do for a defective battery, and even if there was it still wouldn't belong here, because it's a request/question. (Can you do this for me/us?)
This belongs in the Q/A section.
Unknownforce said:
I've owned a Diamond, a Touch Pro, Touch Pro 2 (x2), and an EVO. They ALL came with the 1A charger. I've NEVER had a battery die.
I've also used SBC, and although it provides substantial battery life, I removed it due to the fact that LI-Ion batteries are not supposed to be HELD at a 4.2V charge. But that's beside the point here...
The point is HTC Chargers have been this way for quite some time and being phone manufacturers for 14 years, I think they have sufficient evidence that their ways work. They wouldn't put out a 1A charger if it was known for killing batteries. After 13 years and collecting feedback about them all, if this was a problem, they would have provided a different charger.
You simply got a bad egg. It happens. Batteries are known for getting bad ones every now and again.
This also does NOT belong in the development forum... because there's nothing developers can do for a defective battery, and even if there was it still wouldn't belong here, because it's a request/question. (Can you do this for me/us?)
This belongs in the Q/A section.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is all well and good but not useful. My post was not to say my charger (or any charger killed my battery), my post clearly said my software MAY have killed the battery and that only a 1A charger, which is what HTC supplies, revived it. I have had it happen 3 times, over 5 years and thousand of flashes so it doesn't surprise me you haven't seen it as most wouldn't. Clearly some combinations of roms/kernels/hardware (including batteries and their revs here) cause it, but when it happens to you it can be a royal PITA. Anyway, I have a dozen other chargers here from Motorola, Nokia, RIM and non-OEM which prove that your info about other manufacturers supplying 1A chargers to be wrong, so maybe you should read and investigate before you thread crap.
vettejock99 said:
This is all well and good but not useful. My post was not to say my charger (or any charger killed my battery), my post clearly said my software MAY have killed the battery and that only a 1A charger, which is what HTC supplies, revived it. I have had it happen 3 times, over 5 years and thousand of flashes so it doesn't surprise me you haven't seen it as most wouldn't. Clearly some combinations of roms/kernels/hardware (including batteries and their revs here) cause it, but when it happens to you it can be a royal PITA. Anyway, I have a dozen other chargers here from Motorola, Nokia, RIM and non-OEM which prove that your info about other manufacturers supplying 1A chargers to be wrong, so maybe you should read and investigate before you thread crap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well, I skimmed over your original post, and it looked like from a glance, that you were saying that the 1A charger caused it, my mistake.
However, I never said that other manufacturers supply 1A chargers, I said that HTC does, so perhaps you should take your own advice and read.
Secondly, You presume to think for some reason that I have not done any REAL flashing/experimenting. You are incorrect. Being the owner of several HTC devices, I too have done thousands of flashes, both experimental and non-experimental. I also built my own roms and kernels for all the devices I specified. And I have NEVER had a problem with a battery failure caused by software issues. I did have ONE issue, but I caused the issue, I charged a battery with NO built in software/hardware protection, and killed it by leaving it on the charger without protection, which was my fault. (hence the second Touch Pro 2)
Thirdly, There have been a total of what... 8 or 9 battery failures reported now? (Granted this does not include those that have NOT reported on the forums that it died...) Now, I'm no expert, but in terms of statistics, in the minds of the manufacturer of products that are designed KNOWING that they are going to fail at some point or another, And dealing with naturally unstable elements inherent to the design aspect of the product, I would think that this is an acceptable number compared to the total number of batteries sold for this specific device.
Nope, presumed nothing. Even with dozens or hundreds of flashes you may not see this, especially with WinMo phones as I noted you listed 3, and so what I said was correct. You did note your phones came with HTC wall chargers, but that was irrelevant. I was talking to the vast majority of chargers of all types, which many of us have and use in addition to our HTC wall chargers (as I was, because I was traveling). And your last point, again, is off the mark. As you note, for every report of an issue there are many times more folks with actual issues who for whatever reason don't note them (in my experience, usually because we're all too busy). But I've taken some of my valuable time to try to help the dozens or hundreds of folks (including non-Evo folks who may search XDA or Google and see this) who actually have this problem. Anyway, I've wasted more than even time on you, so reply all you like, I'm done with this debate.
Unknownforce said:
I've owned a Diamond, a Touch Pro, Touch Pro 2 (x2), and an EVO. They ALL came with the 1A charger. I've NEVER had a battery die.
I've also used SBC, and although it provides substantial battery life, I removed it due to the fact that LI-Ion batteries are not supposed to be HELD at a 4.2V charge. But that's beside the point here...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holding the charge at 4.2 V is not an issue, and most kemels will do this. The "issue" is with the continuous movement of Li ions towards the anode even in low amperes. However, thus far the evidence and data presented behind the catastrophic failure caused by Li plating - is somewhat lacking.
Furthermore, I think its BS when someone with little knowledge on the subject reaches to blame SBC as soon as something goes wrong with their battery. I suppose its nice to have a scapegoat ...
Tapa tapa tapa
It's funny you should post this because this just happened to me....like it happened yesterday. I rooted my roommate's phone and the next morning his phone wouldn't turn on or charge with any charger, etc. I knew it had to have been a problem with the battery because I'm sure it wasn't something I had done like bricking the phone, so I switched his battery with mine and...his phone worked. Maybe it was a faulty battery or maybe I DID do something wrong but it was weird because all I did was flash CM and I didn't use any SBC/HAVS kernels. Either way seeing this post and what happened to my friend's phone has me a bit wary of the EVO's battery...but hey we all know the risks here so the lesson learned is...research before anything lol.
This is no secret, really.
It's just a common misconception that all USB chargers work the same.
USB 2.0 standard is 500mA+, and specifications allow USB 2.0 chargers to go up to 1.8A (1800mA).
USB 3.0 specifies a primary port to have 900mA, so charging your phone on a USB 3.0 port (laptop/computer) is recommended over USB 2.0.
Many smartphone chargers (stock) provide 1A, while many 3rd party chargers still use the typical 500mA.
ALSO, it should be noted that when a devices battery (if it is lithium-based) falls below a certain voltage, the device typically will not attempt to charge it for safety reasons (it causes oxidation which can cause physical damage and in worst scenarios the battery will explode).
Also, don't blame SBC...while I'm not a fan and it's arguable it can cause battery damage, this is solely a USER-ERROR (that means you made the mistake, not your phone, not your phone's software)!
Still think this should be in the general forum. Although I did "develop" a headache from reading all the big words, so maybe it can stay.
1 month after getting my Evo(2days after the Evo was released is my start date) ,my battery took a crap. I was unrooted. I rooted in July , I've run many roms and kernels since. I have been running SBC with not one problem unless you consider fantastic battery life an issue . I've been runening SBC since it came out and I'm an extremely heavy user.
Neotelos_com said:
This is no secret, really.
It's just a common misconception that all USB chargers work the same.
...
Many smartphone chargers (stock) provide 1A, while many 3rd party chargers still use the typical 500mA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason I called it a "secret" (not the quotes) is that many non-OEM chargers listed as 1A - aren't. I have 3 others here that show 1A that don't work (haven't plugged into a multimeter to see what they are actually putting out.
Also, to the poster who said this is the user's fault and not SBC's let me be clear (again, as I was in the first post) - I take absolute responsibility for whatever happens when I flash my phone with non stock software. Further, I am not blaming SBC, just mentioned I MAY have been running it at the time. That said, the phone had a charge and was plugged in to the same chargers it has operated on dozens of times before and again is operating on now that it has been revived, so there is SOME software or hardware issue here. Saying it is my fault, beyond the fact that I flashed something unauthorized, is patently ridiculous. Just want to be clear that taking responsibility for risk and understanding the related consequences is one thing, but being blamed in totality for all consequences is something else altogether.
So, to prevent this from turning into a blame SBC thread, I'd ask that anyone who isn't experiencing problems, or is, but hasn't had a completely dead battery, post in the SBC kernel thread, because they are doing great work over there.
Dead battery issue
vettejock99 said:
I am posting this for three reasons:
I want to offer hope to people who may otherwise run out and spend $40 at retail B&M to get a battery.
I want to raise awareness about an issue that likely has some dev contribution to it.
I did a search in all the Evo forums here for posts with "dead" "battery" and "charge" and didn't readily see this information provided.
So here is the "secret" - the charger HTC supplies when you buy your phone provides more amperage than virtually all other chargers. It provides 1A, whereas most others supply 950mA or less, and even non-OEM ones which say 1A do not usually provide it (I know, I have some). I learned this years ago when the HTC Wizards would go completely dead and the only thing that could revive them was the stock charger.
This still applies today, even to the Evo. Night before last I went to bed and my phone was plugged via USB into a plugged in PC as it has been dozens of times before and when I woke up it was dead and would not power on. No other charger, wall or USB would work, and I was traveling so I didn't have mine. A trip to the Sprint store confirmed my phone would power on with another battery. When I got home last night I plugged into my HTC charger and within 10 seconds the light was blinking, and it was solid within 30 seconds. Now it is "fine again", but needless to say I have a backup on the way from Ebay.
Now to why I posted this in Dev, and why I think it should stay here and not in general. Here is what I was running:
MikFroyo 4.4 (upgraded from 4.3, no wipe)
Netarchy 4.2.1 cfs havs more universal (forgot to check whether SBC or not, but I know I have run SBC and MORE kernels before for a couple days at least with no issues)
Launch day Evo, hardware 003
I think if mods move this to General then many fewer devs will see it, and I do think the SBC kernel probably played a role in this thing dying. I am NOT trying to blame the SBC dev for anything - this is all my responsibility, but if others have this problem and report ROM, wipe status, hardware rev, and kernel in this thread, maybe we can isolate what causes the problem. Regardless of what is decided, everyone who flashes should know about the charger issue so I hope this helps some folks.
Mark
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
happens all the time while trying to stream the internet to PC. I just hook up my battery to an external charger that plugs into the wall, then use my spare battery till thats done charging.
See ya
vettejock99 said:
The reason I called it a "secret" (not the quotes) is that many non-OEM chargers listed as 1A - aren't. I have 3 others here that show 1A that don't work (haven't plugged into a multimeter to see what they are actually putting out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may not have tested, but you also aren't listing the stated voltages.
Input voltage can sometimes be used for reference, which can also explain some issues you are having.
This has turned into some big "secret" when all it really is happens to be you finding the fact that non-OEM products often have more quality issues and also higher margins of error.
Many people may not know this, but the way you have gone about this thread is what me and others are objecting. Why you even mentioned SBC as if it had something to do with this is also a big issues, considering there is much controversy over SBC kernels.
You have to understand there are proper ways of presenting information and findings, and this is not one of them...you came here presenting the presumption that this is a dev issue (in some aspects pointing fingers) when this is far from that.
I mean, I hope you understand the way you mentioned SBC insinuates SBC has something to do with this...
Your charging port might be going bad.
Um, no, and it's not. Read into it all you like, there are EE's who will argue on both sides of the SBC discussion and frankly I don't care - I an running another SBC kernel right now. I do know it is happening to people and just because I knew the HTC charger would fix it and you may have known it doesn't mean the majority of others do.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
One thing I learned with the 25+ android phones I have had and the many years already using android is phones die according to the user wether battery,bricks or just the phone not performing like it should. I use and mod my phone the proper way and have never had issues unless I F-ed it up my self and a few factory issues I noticed a hour or so after opening the phone. I also have used a bunch of kernals and have been using SBC kernals since they started appearing on the seen and have yet to see one issue but then again from the years of my modding experience on phones in general I never buy extended batterys because they have always caused issues also I never use 10 dollar batterys or any charger that did not come with the phone.
So I think this thread is give or take based on the user and what they are doing with there phone, but not saying its not a issue.
I am a Sprint service tech. This type of "failure" is common and is not exclusive to the Evo. An undercharged battery will often refuse to respond. Generally leaving the device plugged into the wall with your OEM charger will eventually trigger a charge. Your local Sprint ASC or Retail service center can jump start a "dead" battery with there Cadex.
Newer cell batteries very rarely die or fail.
Exactly what I was trying to say.
My last few comments on this:
I came here to help some folks. I knew the resolution to my issue, but we shouldn't assume everyone does. In fact anecdotally I would say MOST people who come here want to know just enough to flash ROMs or tweak their phone to address some major irritation or reap some benefit their provider doesn't give them, but they don't care about these "corner cases". And although some will disagree with me, I don't believe that this limit to their desire for knowledge means they don't have a right to be here and shouldn't be flashing.
In the end I came here to offer up help for a real problem. I disagree with anyone who says there is no software involvement here and with the statement that this is somehow user error (unless one believes letting your battery get below 20% or plugging into a non-OEM charger is user error). Clearly it happens, there are theories as to why it is happening and no one should squelch those. I've seen a lot of people leave this board for others recently for exactly that reason - people here are too quick to weigh in with their opinion or thread crap and this is one of the reasons this board has become progressively less helpful as of late. I think this sucks, but I am not starving for approval, so move this thread, lock it, let it fall into page 10 obscurity or whatever, I don't care.
This is still a debate. I had my moments with SBC kernels and I associated it to those SBC related kernels. I did my test twice and both times the SBC kernels with USB - PC charge would cause my battery to die. Also without the HTC OEM Wall Charger it would not work. I kick started it with the HTC OEM Wall Charger and cable. Even a non-oem cable that I have used for everything doesn't work to kick start it.
My experience for my phone is to stay away from the SBC Kernels. This is regarding dead battery/non-responsive phone.
I have had some of the older non-SBC kernels not charge my phone with a Wall Charger (HTC) to past 65%.
So who knows it sometimes is a crap shoot.
Related
I bought a couple of cheap Chinese replacement batteries for my Xperia Play just to see if they were any good. So far, they seem to be lasting a lot longer than the original battery, but I've noticed I cannot charge them using the phone (it seems I have to use the standalone charger that came with the batteries). Is there any way I can convince the phone to charge these batteries, or is there some kind of hardware lockout for third party batteries that I won't be able to get around?
jmetal88 said:
I bought a couple of cheap Chinese replacement batteries for my Xperia Play just to see if they were any good. So far, they seem to be lasting a lot longer than the original battery, but I've noticed I cannot charge them using the phone (it seems I have to use the standalone charger that came with the batteries). Is there any way I can convince the phone to charge these batteries, or is there some kind of hardware lockout for third party batteries that I won't be able to get around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's probably not a hardware lockout, just that the batteries are cheap. It comes with it's limitations, I presume.
ridder215215 said:
It's probably not a hardware lockout, just that the batteries are cheap. It comes with it's limitations, I presume.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is, if there wasn't a lockout, I would assume the phone would at least be trying to charge them. It doesn't even show the charging icon when I plug it in. It just sits there running off USB power without providing any charging voltage to the battery. It may very well be that since the batteries are cheap, the manufacturer didn't bother to put a correct ID chip in or something, though. I'm just wondering if there's something I can change in the phone's settings or in some configuration file, or if it's something I can't do anything about at all. I did change the capacity in build.prop to match what's on the label for the batteries, if that might have affected the charging capabilities in some way.
Okay, the second battery of the two did show the charging icon when I plugged the USB cable into the phone. Interesting. Of course, it was already fully charged when I booted the phone with the USB cable attached, so maybe that had something to do with it. I'll have to see if the behavior is the same once it's been run down a little.
You get what you paid for. Sounds more truerer than ever. No pun intended.
chery2k said:
You get what you paid for. Sounds more truerer than ever. No pun intended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No need to lecture me, I knew I was probably headed for some issues. Just feeling optimistic, haha.
What's awesome is that they really do last a lot longer than the stock battery. Phone's been on for almost 5 hours now, I've been tethering over WiFi for at least two hours, and the battery is just over half depleted. My stock battery would be blinking the 10% warning after this amount of tethering.
Okay, weirdness. The second battery charges in the phone without any problem (I let it run all the way down this time, then plugged in the USB connection). I wonder if it has anything to do with the way the label on the first battery bunched up when I inserted it? Maybe that was causing one of the contacts to not make a solid connection or something. I'll have to try it out again later.
chery2k said:
You get what you paid for. Sounds more truerer than ever. No pun intended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry, I just re-read this, and I'm genuinely confused by your statement regarding puns. I'll accept it as true, but I'm not sure which part of the preceding statement could be taken for a pun. I mean there's 'more truerer', which is kind of a funny way to word things, but it doesn't call the word 'pun' to my mind, haha.
Alright, well, I tried it again with the label un-bunched, and I guess battery #1 is just defective. Battery #2 still charges happily. I'll e-mail the seller and ask if they're willing to send me another battery or give me a partial refund (although a partial refund out of $22 wouldn't be that much, haha).
EDIT: Alright, I sent the seller a message, and they're just going to send me a replacement battery. I don't even have to send back the defective one! I just hope the new battery works like the 'good' one of the two I got in this set, and not like the 'bad' one. If anyone's curious, these are the MPJ brand batteries available on eBay. At the price they sell for, and with the willingness of the seller to correct a situation like the one I got into, they're probably worth the risk.
I only wish I could say whether the batteries are better than a brand new stock battery. The battery I got with my phone was sealed and unused, but for some reason it was a year older than the phone itself, so it might have already been suffering from diminished capacity due to age. The MPJ batteries definitely last a lot longer than my phone's battery when I first got the phone back in January, though.
Hello All.
I realize that charging issues are not uncommon to the Evo. I have done all the research I can regarding wake-lock, bad batteries, charging ports broken, types of chargers, cable types etc. Given the age of the device, I realize there's high chance of physical issues, decayed battery's etc. But please... Hear me out for a moment.
My issue is rather strange. My phone, normally running CM7 (though I have tried numerous roms), will get into moods sometimes and charge from ONLY one of the three OEM HTC chargers I have. Otherwise, it actually drains the battery faster while on the charger. After a few days, sometimes weeks, it somehow goes back to charging normally from the OEM, and even Non-OEM chargers. However... The numerous chargers all work on a bone-stock Evo, as well as my wife's Stock One, and other HTC/Non-HTC phones of friends.
I realize that some will say "Well just use the charger that works. Or just replace that old junk with a new phone." But I was hoping for a more in-depth hands-on solution. Especially since the guys on here may feel the same way about how I don't want to replace the device all together.
I have had a Sprint rep take it apart and I loosely quote "It looks brand new. Normally they are all jacked up"
My charging procedure: I take the battery out of my daily ROM'ed Evo, put it in a Stock Evo, plugged into any charger, in the same APC Power Strip and the Stock Evo charges both batteries fine. Battery life is fair-good, but I'm not concerning/questioning that.
The real confusing part about this issue is it has surfaced and gone away before, essentially on its own.
Is there a more technical way to diagnose this issue, which appears to be Low-Level/Software related?
Thank you very much for allowing me to seek some guidance on my apparently-repetitive question.
The Guts:
Supersonic EVT2-3 SHIP S-On
HBOOT-2.18.0001
ClockworkMod Recovery v5.0.2.2
ROM's utilized in order: CM7(Latest Stable), SS Ultra v5.1. CyanMobile x5.5S Mega, Energy 7.4.2012, Classic v0.1.0p3
Thanks again. =]
as above i know your not supposed to fully drain this tab, but am getting frustrated as my son never charges it when low. so the only thing is to keep taking cover off and disconecting the battery.
has there been a fix for this bug?.
thanks
ps i have always had android, the mrs and kids have apple so am coping a bit of **** over it
okle001 said:
as above i know your not supposed to fully drain this tab, but am getting frustrated as my son never charges it when low. so the only thing is to keep taking cover off and disconecting the battery.
has there been a fix for this bug?.
thanks
ps i have always had android, the mrs and kids have apple so am coping a bit of **** over it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, the bug has been found and fix. The bug was a lackadaisical one. Worst type of bug in the technology world. Sorry to be so harsh on you, but you found your problem and the solution is to plug it in at night. Now, there is one thing that is certain and that is you use the OEM charger and cable to charge the device. Do not use Apple or a third party charger unless it meets or exceeds the specifications of the OEM charger (the charger that came with the tab).
If you use a smaller rated charger it may not work or will take forever to charge your device.
Next, take the device away from your son as he has no responsibility to maintain it. Again, sorry for being so harsh on you. Kids and expensive technology do not mix.
Also, did you or your son try to root and install one of these roms you can find here? I have seen several posts that have the same issue as you and the catalyst was rooting and loading a rom other than the OEM Rom for your device.
First of all, I'm not a noob regarding electronics and batteries.... Second, I don't think Samsung did such a stupid mistake like using millions of batteries without testing them and third, I don't think that a company who is producing batteries for a mammoth like Samsung can afford to sell defective batteries, or not properly tested batteries...
I'm the owner of a blue Note 7, and I am ready to take the chance and NOT exchanging the phone.
And this is why:
(please excuse my English...)
At the beginning, I have noticed that every single time when I was charging my phone, the phone was kinda overheating... Not too much, but still....
After that, the big scandal about exploding batteries was everywhere in the media...
I have read in the phone settings that SPEED CHARGING can overheat your phone (actually is overheating just the battery)....
So I've just disabled the speed charging on the phone and the now the phone is always cool
So my personal opinion:
I think that the problem is somewhere in the speed charging process, something that is shocking and putting too much pressure on the batteries, probably not proper designed for fast charging.
So I'm taking the risk and not exchanging my phone, and I suggest to all of you guys who are not exchanging your devices to do the same, especially because the charging speed is not too much different regarding the speed!!!
Please test and post your experience regarding charging speed and phone temperature with the fast charging option enabled/disabled....
Thanks, and again, this is my personal opinion, and I'm not advising anyone NOT to exchange the phone.
Just a couple of points on your post.
1. It's not all phones that have the reported problem - Samsung have a few different battery suppliers and only one has delivered faulty ones. The problem is that Sam has no record of which phones they went into.
2. Phones sold in China have not been recalled because Sam knows the dud batteries weren't used for that batch.
So a general charging problem doesn't explain the situation. But yes of course fast charging will make the battery hot.
My personal opinion what is the big deal no sweat off your back. Change the phine and get it over with.
The liability you are assuming is not worth a few hours of set up
on the testing front, it is impossible and far too time consuming and detrimental to the product to conduct full scale testing on every single thing coming out of a factory, the fact is mass production should make it so item 1 and item 1 million are identical, so due to the process they will do spot checks randomly testing say 1 in 100, now when you hit a problem like this battery fault where the actual fault is a very very small percentage it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack, you can poke at it randomly as is the industry norm (even with cars) but the majority of the time you are going to come out with hay. the only way this could have been caught if every single battery was put through intensive inspection and usage tests before they shipped, not only would this add a massive amount to the production cost and time it would also lead to the battery already having some pretty harsh wear and tear on it.
so the testing is pretty much manufacturing standard and the same as every other company worldwide, so if Samsung for doing this then you are saying every single company the world over is stupid.
on not exchanging the phone if the option is there it would be stupid not to, as basically if it does fail down the road and you refused the recall then you have no come back as you were told and given the chance to have a device deemed to be safe.
the fast charging claim was made up by phone shops, it's not one Samsung ever put forward. yes fast charging can generate increased heat, but the battery isn't failing because it is hot, it is hot because it fails. the actual failure of the battery is a short circuit caused by a fault making the 2 sides of the battery to bridge leading to the battery to have a runaway reaction, you can actually do this on any battery should you use something to short both sides of the battery together. now here lies the problem, people erroneously claim don't fast charge as it reduces heat, but when the flaw comes from parts of the battery that should never touch coming into contact with each other, slow charge or fast charge if them 2 parts are close enough they can touch they will eventually. so yeah heat is a symptom not a cause, with temperature things can expand and contract but the fact is if the short can be made on a device anything you do is only delaying the inevitable and there is nothing you can do to stop it eventually failing.
but end of the day if you want to risk it and live with 60% battery power that is up to you.
I agree that the vast majority of batteries are probably fine.
The hassle of keeping will be having to deal with airports, gimped 80% battery and possibly IMEI blacklist.
The hassle of exchanging is getting a unit with screen or hardware other problems. As well as (like in my cause) having to exchange out of region, the process of which still isnt clear to me. I am currently playing ping pong with samsung UK and samsung Gulf (i am the ball)
Belimawr said:
on the testing front, it is impossible and far too time consuming and detrimental to the product to conduct full scale testing on every single thing coming out of a factory, the fact is mass production should make it so item 1 and item 1 million are identical, so due to the process they will do spot checks randomly testing say 1 in 100, now when you hit a problem like this battery fault where the actual fault is a very very small percentage it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack, you can poke at it randomly as is the industry norm (even with cars) but the majority of the time you are going to come out with hay. the only way this could have been caught if every single battery was put through intensive inspection and usage tests before they shipped, not only would this add a massive amount to the production cost and time it would also lead to the battery already having some pretty harsh wear and tear on it.
so the testing is pretty much manufacturing standard and the same as every other company worldwide, so if Samsung for doing this then you are saying every single company the world over is stupid.
on not exchanging the phone if the option is there it would be stupid not to, as basically if it does fail down the road and you refused the recall then you have no come back as you were told and given the chance to have a device deemed to be safe.
the fast charging claim was made up by phone shops, it's not one Samsung ever put forward. yes fast charging can generate increased heat, but the battery isn't failing because it is hot, it is hot because it fails. the actual failure of the battery is a short circuit caused by a fault making the 2 sides of the battery to bridge leading to the battery to have a runaway reaction, you can actually do this on any battery should you use something to short both sides of the battery together. now here lies the problem, people erroneously claim don't fast charge as it reduces heat, but when the flaw comes from parts of the battery that should never touch coming into contact with each other, slow charge or fast charge if them 2 parts are close enough they can touch they will eventually. so yeah heat is a symptom not a cause, with temperature things can expand and contract but the fact is if the short can be made on a device anything you do is only delaying the inevitable and there is nothing you can do to stop it eventually failing.
but end of the day if you want to risk it and live with 60% battery power that is up to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BTW, I didn't update the phone with the last update, I've just turn off automatic updates in settings... I'm curious if I can skip this and will be able to update next time when Samsung will release a update....
You won't be able to give it away when you come to sell if you don't exchange it.
Sent from my SM-N930F using Tapatalk
My note 7 to heated up too during that one time during its first w days. It was really really hot...I turned off fast charging and it never happened again.
I also believe it's related to fast charging...which is on by default.
Using generic adapters and cables hasn't made it hot every since i turned off fast charging.
But I'm still having this replaced..sad because I have no problems with this unit..GPS works perfectly and fast. Battery last long. And now the news is reporting that the new note 7 replacements are showing problems is South Korea. Over heating and not charging....sigh
vflad said:
BTW, I didn't update the phone with the last update, I've just turn off automatic updates in settings... I'm curious if I can skip this and will be able to update next time when Samsung will release a update....
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Click to collapse
the updates have to be done in order you can't skip one and go onto the next, if you get the next it will include this one so basically using that method you can never update the phone.
fast charge
vflad said:
First of all, I'm not a noob regarding electronics and batteries.... Second, I don't think Samsung did such a stupid mistake like using millions of batteries without testing them and third, I don't think that a company who is producing batteries for a mammoth like Samsung can afford to sell defective batteries, or not properly tested batteries...
I'm the owner of a blue Note 7, and I am ready to take the chance and NOT exchanging the phone.
And this is why:
(please excuse my English...)
At the beginning, I have noticed that every single time when I was charging my phone, the phone was kinda overheating... Not too much, but still....
After that, the big scandal about exploding batteries was everywhere in the media...
I have read in the phone settings that SPEED CHARGING can overheat your phone (actually is overheating just the battery)....
So I've just disabled the speed charging on the phone and the now the phone is always cool
So my personal opinion:
I think that the problem is somewhere in the speed charging process, something that is shocking and putting too much pressure on the batteries, probably not proper designed for fast charging.
So I'm taking the risk and not exchanging my phone, and I suggest to all of you guys who are not exchanging your devices to do the same, especially because the charging speed is not too much different regarding the speed!!!
Please test and post your experience regarding charging speed and phone temperature with the fast charging option enabled/disabled....
Thanks, and again, this is my personal opinion, and I'm not advising anyone NOT to exchange the phone.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you 100%, through my own testing i came to the same conclusion which included charging from power point/usb and wireless, i believe heavy use, fast charge and a defective battery caused issues, not just battery issue , in my humble opinion i believe incorrect using of fast charging was probably an issue in all legit cases, but Samsung should of put some type of time limit for fast charging, ie 90 minutes, that way would of negated one part of the equation and probably stopped a few bangs, so blame all around really
If it was fast charging that was the problem don't you think samsung would have disabled it with the replacement phones?
Kudos for starting the thread by stating what's said is "your opinion." We're all operating off of second and third hand data yet some here will defend their interpretations as fact. Clearly they're not and can't be.
This explains the battery issue. If fast charging made batteries overheat than you'd see events like this on every forum for every OEM. S7's don't have this issue and they are only three months behind the Note7 in development and share many of the same internals.
https://www.cnet.com/news/why-is-samsung-galaxy-note-7-exploding-overheating/
I'm glad that i left Samsung family cuz It was pretty damn sure that someday my phone will kill me
Samsung is going the apple way i guess.... Just to sell it... Now apple doesnt look that expensive.... :/
vflad said:
First of all, I'm not a noob regarding electronics and batteries.... Second, I don't think Samsung did such a stupid mistake like using millions of batteries without testing them and third, I don't think that a company who is producing batteries for a mammoth like Samsung can afford to sell defective batteries, or not properly tested batteries...
I'm the owner of a blue Note 7, and I am ready to take the chance and NOT exchanging the phone.
And this is why:
(please excuse my English...)
At the beginning, I have noticed that every single time when I was charging my phone, the phone was kinda overheating... Not too much, but still....
After that, the big scandal about exploding batteries was everywhere in the media...
I have read in the phone settings that SPEED CHARGING can overheat your phone (actually is overheating just the battery)....
So I've just disabled the speed charging on the phone and the now the phone is always cool
So my personal opinion:
I think that the problem is somewhere in the speed charging process, something that is shocking and putting too much pressure on the batteries, probably not proper designed for fast charging.
So I'm taking the risk and not exchanging my phone, and I suggest to all of you guys who are not exchanging your devices to do the same, especially because the charging speed is not too much different regarding the speed!!!
Please test and post your experience regarding charging speed and phone temperature with the fast charging option enabled/disabled....
Thanks, and again, this is my personal opinion, and I'm not advising anyone NOT to exchange the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are a noob, you don't know anything about batteries.
Current Li-ion batteries can be safely charged with approximately 40 watts of power. Fast charging in Samsung phones utilizes only 15 or so watts.
It's not the fast charging. It's a just a tiny percentage of batteries with a defect.
I fast charge mine all the time and it stays pretty cool. I'll still switch when my replacement arrived, but in the meantime I am not worried.
When you look into the Note 7 recall and all of the information we have available, you have news outlets taking a biased point of view on the units. They have put words into both Samsung and the CPSC's mouth saying that the recalls are MANDATORY, that the Note 7 production has been permanently halted, and that the issue is the battery itself. In the meantime, Samsung themselves have announced that they CANNOT replicate the issue themselves, and the changing out of the battery would generally suggest that it was not the battery causing the problem. Plus, due to media coverage the issue has been severely exaggerated. According to the CPSC, only 96 units out of 1.9 million units sold in the US have been reported as overheating. In the two months since the release of the phone that is a 0.005% failure rate. That means the phone has a 99.995% chance of being perfectly fine. In terms of normal production, that would be considered a success by most companies. Samsung also has not announced anywhere on their site that production has been halted permenantly. They've said temporarily while they investigate. The investigation is NOT COMPLETE.
Now, if you take the battery out of the equation as the primary point of failure, there are three other points of possible failure that would be the most common cause to make the battery ignite. Those are software tampering, hardware tampering/error and the USB-C port/accessories.
Software: a partially flashed firmware could easily damage the charge rate systems to cause damage to the battery itself or damage the battery's protection board to the point where it can cause problems.
Hardware Tampering/Error: How many idiots have you seen on youtube sinking their Note7s to the bottom of a lake/river/pier, or drop testing them from heights that they are not rated for. Then count the # of people who replicate what other people do on youtube.. (Ghost pepper challenges anyone?)
USB-C Port/Accessories: USB-C has been under some controversy itself lately. Cheap USB cables have been sold that when used on devices damage not only the USB-C port, but also the power systems due to the cables being improperly wired. As well, the Note7 comes with USB-C accessories, one of which is a USB-A to a USB-C port adapter. This is used to use the unit AS a backup battery, or to attach flash drives to the unit and NOT to charge the unit. Many people have USB-A to USB-A cables. Imagine if someone used one of the faulty USB-C cables to charge the unit, or tried to use that adapter with a USB-A to USB-A cable to charge the unit. With only 96 cases reported of overheating, it's well within the number of people who don't understand technology enough to get the proper cables and/or use the unit up to spec. If the cable is not CERTIFIED by the USB-IF it could very well be a bad cable and have caused the issue.
What I'm saying here is look at the proof, look at the history of the devices you're attaching to the phone, look at human behavior, look at what the media's doing. We have people in this world who actually think TRUMP would make a good president. We have people in this world who snort condoms up their noses. It makes it completely possible that all 96 reported cases are 96 cases of users doing the wrong thing with their phones. It is very likely that out of 1.9 Million units sold in the US (according to CPSC), 96 of the people who bought Note 7s are simply idiots. (Plus there's a video of an idiot supposedly holding a Note 7 while the phone is catching fire. When a LI-Ion Battery overheats you can't hold it. not in your hands without receiving severe burns. Information below attached so you can see it all directly from the sources for the information on the Note 7 instead of from media locations.
Also, don't forget, some of these people with the phones who have overheated REFUSE to return them to Samsung for investigation. There is only one reason to refuse to turn in a destroyed device. If you tampered with it yourself.
Samsung Recall Info (showing its voluntary): http://www.samsung.com/us/note7recall/
Verizon Recall Info (showing they're still investigating as of 10/10): https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/samsung-galaxy-note7-recall-faqs/
CPSC Information: https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2017/S...-Additional-Incidents-with-Replacement-Phones
USB-C Cable Information: http://www.androidcentral.com/usb-c-problem-isnt-going-away-anytime-soon
More USB-C Info: http://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c-cables
Update: Just spoke with a supervisor at Verizon, and they are AWARE that this is a blown out of proportion recall and issue. As of the current moment, they are supporting the phone INDEFINITELY, until Samsung verifies what the problem is and completes the investigation. Then depending on the investigation result, they will decide what to do. I encourage people to call their carriers and talk to supervisors who have more information.
I ansolutely agree with you, around 100 devices in 2 million +, is better than many other quality standards around, and as you pointed out, many people handle devices in very bad ways
Well said. This is why I'm not getting rid of mine. BTW, you accidently put billion instead of million the first time.
---------- Post added at 12:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------
Maybe the whole thing is a conspiracy by another company like LG or Apple. Paying people to do this to their phones then paying the media to overhype and overexaterate the whole thing. I don't think it's a coincidence this happened to the best phone Samsung has ever made. Let me rephrase that, the best phone ever created.
Think about this, how rediculous would it be if samsung found out it was an uncertified cable causing the entire problem, and that they took a multi-billion dollar loss over the cable. This is why all of this crap should not be happening until the investigation concludes.
Updated first post with: Also, don't forget, some of these people with the phones who have overheated REFUSE to return them to Samsung for investigation. There is only one reason to refuse to turn in a destroyed device. If you tampered with it yourself.
Fixed billion replaced with million
Update with information from Verizon in first post.
NOW we're talking! Finally my kinda people! Where have you been the past couple of days? Now the dust is settling and the initial "shock" has subsided people are starting to think with clarity. Excuse the pun, but 'Think Different'
Keep it going, I LIKE this!! I was getting so lonely here getting called a conspiracy nut and such. Thank you my people!
I agree. My phone is perfect and I would keep it except I would like to receive updates and such. At&t told me it has a one year warranty. That I don't have to turn it in. I'm struggling real hard with this. I love this damn phone and nothing else compared to it. I think it's just another case of reefer madness.
My theory is that the playdoh like battery is just in a foil like cover, so it's easily squished. They have mentioned possible assembly problems with squishing it inside the phone being the cause, but I wonder if perhaps a high G drop on a floor might distort it sufficiently that, after a number of charge/discharge cycles, may develop those crystals which will fuse internally between squashed plates causing the battery run away we have all seen.
I doubt it is external to the battery as surely between battery and main phone assembly there will be short circuit protection (generally the metallic canister style batteries have this built in, but with a sealed phone and soft battery, this protection is probably the very first thing the phone battery cable plugs into).
I only dropped my N4 twice, my N7 never (ok, it hit ground inside a Gear VR when my son was being silly), but I have seen others who are far less careful with phones that may have dropped and distorted the battery putty enough to be more prone to internally fusing.
Although at least 2 photos show the phone in (melted) protector cases which should reduce the shock loading, perhaps these ones had the extra squished assembly with the SDI batteries which already had less internal tolerances than the Chinese one?
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Another funny development that was brought up in another thread... The only video of the unit catching fire is a surveillance video from above... where you cannot actually see what device is spewing the smoke. The only reason its believed to be a note 7 is because someone SAID it is.
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finally!! some clarity i have 2 note 7 ... one from the first production and other of the second!... and everything fine ... i never trust samsung chargers..... so i instead use blackberry folding type chargers ... and never experience overheating anything ...
w1n73rf3ll said:
finally!! some clarity i have 2 note 7 ... one from the first production and other of the second!... and everything fine ... i never trust samsung chargers..... so i instead use blackberry folding type chargers ... and never experience overheating anything ...
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Click to collapse
The problem is obviously not the charger. I've charged it many times from below 10% all the way to 100 on the samsung unit, and it has never caused a problem. My best guess is that it wont fail because I am using a certified cable.
Perhaps samsung should go the apple route and put a chip in their chargers so only certified chargers work.
With the invention of fast charging technology it is pretty risky to use cheapies.
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