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Hi guys
I recently got hold of a Samsung i9000 Galaxy S, and i have to say im rather dissapointed.
The lag issue, which none of the lag fixes really actually stop, is so annoying, GPS not working as im one of the unfortunate people who have this issue is another annoyance
The screen is fantastic however, and the music player is aweseome with its equilizer.
However i use my phone for numerous things, media is one thing, GPS also as i dont see the need to buy a seperate sat nav when my phone "should have it",
Now i am going to wait until the official Froyo release from samsung before making any decision.
Right stop my moaning and here are my questions
i have been offered in exchange a sim Free Desire, plus a 16gb Class 6 sdcard, all boxed.
The one thing that worries me about going down the Desire route is how long is this handset gonna last.
Looking at benchmarks the i9000 creams the desire (with lag fix) in pretty much everything, i know this is down to the pretty poor Adreno 200 GPU on snapdragon as linpack shows the snapdragon FPU is better, Quadrant over 2200 currently on my SGS
in gaming terms for the future how long is this gonna last? can i expect games that are released in 6 months from now to run flawlessly? i know its hard for people to see into the future! but NEed for speed seems to run pretty much identically to my SGS, so im wondering if its all down to optimization on both chipsets
also gingerbread? a definate yes? or have HTC still not announced if Desire will be getting it
Samsung wont give any answers on this whatsoever
Also what would you guys do?
The samsung guys say "stay with it" but i want opinions from both camps
Cheers
You are on the same point I was a few weeks ago, well I wasn't offered in exchange by someone but the store owner offered to change it for me. Honestly, I'd say go for it. Samsung's software is crap, Desire has a lot better development community. Not to mention you get HTC Sense. Now one warning, Desire doesn't got true multi-touch, it got pinch support but thats about as far as the multi-touch goes. I tired playing Real Football 2010 with a Desire and it was a crap experience. People have reported Quadrant benchmarks of almost 1800 via OCed kernel and custom ROMs, if you really want to get down to that point but honestly it doesn't make a difference.
And HTC still hasn't announced if Desire is getting Gingerbread but there is a good chance the ROM community will be able to get it running. Plus Samsung still hasn't released Froyo, so I don't see a bright future of Gingerbread coming from them.
Now, GPS on Desire is damn good. It works as good as my 2 year old satnav if not better(It usually gets the fix better, I gave my satnav away ).
Honestly the handset has a good life-time to last, HTC Hero is still doing pretty good so Desire should do good as well was another year or more. Even if HTC may drop the support we have people here giving new life to the device.
My opinion: go for it! Desire is a great phone / smartphone.
The more I use it, the better it is.
Make sure you do a hard reset when you get it...
im seriously 50/50 on this, and now my time frame has been shortened, my mate wants to know by tomorrow otherwise he is ebaying it (mates eh!?)
Benchmarks are not the be all and end all, its bragging rights i suppose.
one thing that is seriously tipping me back to HTC is the support and community development, Samsungs own support is utterly awful, Kies is the worst piece of software i have ever ever used, and no OTA?! what the hell is that about.
As for HTC back in the day when i had my hero, ok there was delays but at least they kept people in the loop, one of my biggest annoyences is not being advised anything from samsung other than "we are working on it"
i dont hold out anyfaith that the filesystem will be sorted out with froyo, i mean it says alot when the XDA guys can fix it, but Samsung dont seem to even ackowledge the fact the software is naff!
i thought the desire had true multi touch? Does this mean playing psx4droid is a poor experiance?
No, it doesn't got true multi-touch. If the x1 intersects with y2 or x2 with y1 it goes haywire. It doesn't have gorilla glass either. But the community of HTC Desire is far better than Galaxy S from my experience, we don't have to use Kies or similar crap either(It was a PITA to get Kies to even recognize my phone, took me well over 4 hours and a lot of headaches), we got OTA! .
Dragooon123 said:
No, it doesn't got true multi-touch. If the x1 intersects with y2 or x2 with y1 it goes haywire. It doesn't have gorilla glass either. But the community of HTC Desire is far better than Galaxy S from my experience, we don't have to use Kies or similar crap either(It was a PITA to get Kies to even recognize my phone, took me well over 4 hours and a lot of headaches), we got OTA! .
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Glad you share my view on Kies, i honestly have never had such issues flashing a firmware, at least with Odin it did what it says on the tin
ok well im pushing more towards the desire, i just HOPE that its as much as an enjoyable process playing PSX games on psx4droid as it is on the Galaxy S, i do alot of travelling and i spend most of that time on trains playing FF7
If you want to do gaming stick with the galaxy s the desire isn't very good for that. Maybe 2.2 for the galaxy s will resolve your issues. I love the desire its a great phone but its horrible for gaming.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
it all depends how much more powerfull the new version of adreno is, obviously developers are still going to develop games for the arm cpu and adreno inparticular, imo i think our gpu will be able to play the games developed for newer versions of adreno but maybe not flawlessly .............. as far as gingerbread goes, the desire will never get it officially as htc are more intrested in supporting what will be then there current generation of devices, but as the desire and n1 are almost identical, and the n1 being googles official developer device, they are sure to get gingerbread, so we maybe we will be the first device to get working custom roms
AndroHero said:
it all depends how much more powerfull the new version of adreno is, obviously developers are still going to develop games for the arm cpu and adreno inparticular, imo i think our gpu will be able to play the games developed for newer versions of adreno but maybe not flawlessly .............. as far as gingerbread goes, the desire will never get it officially as htc are more intrested in supporting what will be then there current generation of devices, but as the desire and n1 are almost identical, and the n1 being googles official developer device, they are sure to get gingerbread, so we maybe we will be the first device to get working custom roms
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I never thought of it like that actually regarding future android updates, basically the N1 is the same hardware as the desire, just lacking a little bit of Ram i believe, so shouldnt be too difficult to port over a rom
you sir have just tipped the scales again!
If you care about gaming stick with SGS..devs are even stopping games for desire ( see n.o.v.a) due to the multitouch bug and the the GPU isn't even remotely close to sgs's..Desire's 720p is a big pile of disappointment as well,no matter what rom you try..
other than that it is a fantastic phone...also unique feel as you hold it in your palm..its ergonomy is amazing, even ip4 doesn't sit as well in the hand as desire does..
Your right about the iPhone 4 it is a pain to hold now lol (not about the signal "issue") the edges are Sharp.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
I have a Desire & my friend has a Galaxy S.
I would say the Samsung has a better screen. However:
The Desire is a better over all device, software wise and build quality wise. Oh and it has more ram.
However, if gaming is a serious thing for you, I suggest you stay with the Samsung because they really do have the most powerful mobile GPU.
mr.r9 said:
I have a Desire & my friend has a Galaxy S.
I would say the Samsung has a better screen. However:
The Desire is a better over all device, software wise and build quality wise. Oh and it has more ram.
However, if gaming is a serious thing for you, I suggest you stay with the Samsung because they really do have the most powerful mobile GPU.
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In respects to gaming its not gaming as such, i mean angry birds beta from the market, any gpu should play that, im more bothered about PSX emulation at this point, my sgs is superb with psx4droid, where as the videos i have seen on youtube dont say the same story with desire, however these are based on the early versions of the app,
ascottuk said:
In respects to gaming its not gaming as such, i mean angry birds beta from the market, any gpu should play that, im more bothered about PSX emulation at this point, my sgs is superb with psx4droid, where as the videos i have seen on youtube dont say the same story with desire, however these are based on the early versions of the app,
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Don't worry about that...psx4droid does not yet support hardware acceleration so all graphics are rendered from the CPU , not the GPU...so they should play it equaly well..well runs fine on my desire..and also i had an hd2 before and used fpsece which supported(and still does) hw acceleration..and run great on hd2 (has snapdragon chip, same as htc desire)..could get 40+fps on tekken 3...which is brillian (does not even run in psx4droid)..
chris2busy said:
Don't worry about that...psx4droid does not yet support hardware acceleration so all graphics are rendered from the CPU , not the GPU...so they should play it equaly well..well runs fine on my desire..and also i had an hd2 before and used fpsece which supported(and still does) hw acceleration..and run great on hd2 (has snapdragon chip, same as htc desire)..could get 40+fps on tekken 3...which is brillian (does not even run in psx4droid)..
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Also had a hd2 and it was excellent, just a pitty about winmo 6.5, do you know if there are any plans for GPU acceleration to be implemented for android?
ascottuk said:
Also had a hd2 and it was excellent, just a pitty about winmo 6.5, do you know if there are any plans for GPU acceleration to be implemented for android?
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i think we have crappy drivers for our gpu too, the acer liquid has the same gpu but with a cpu that runs at a lower clockspeed, but apparently the 3d rendering on that device surpasses our device
AndroHero said:
i think we have crappy drivers for our gpu too, the acer liquid has the same gpu but with a cpu that runs at a lower clockspeed, but apparently the 3d rendering on that device surpasses our device
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Click to collapse
no they do not have a standard snapdragon..
ascottuk said:
Also had a hd2 and it was excellent, just a pitty about winmo 6.5, do you know if there are any plans for GPU acceleration to be implemented for android?
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Click to collapse
Truly no idea..the guy is taking it deadly slow..Kiss Yorkshire goodnight from me had a trip 3 years ago and it was the sweetest town ever..
ascottuk said:
Hi guys
I recently got hold of a Samsung i9000 Galaxy S, and i have to say im rather dissapointed.
The lag issue, which none of the lag fixes really actually stop, is so annoying, GPS not working as im one of the unfortunate people who have this issue is another annoyance
The screen is fantastic however, and the music player is aweseome with its equilizer.
However i use my phone for numerous things, media is one thing, GPS also as i dont see the need to buy a seperate sat nav when my phone "should have it",
Now i am going to wait until the official Froyo release from samsung before making any decision.
Right stop my moaning and here are my questions
i have been offered in exchange a sim Free Desire, plus a 16gb Class 6 sdcard, all boxed.
The one thing that worries me about going down the Desire route is how long is this handset gonna last.
Looking at benchmarks the i9000 creams the desire (with lag fix) in pretty much everything, i know this is down to the pretty poor Adreno 200 GPU on snapdragon as linpack shows the snapdragon FPU is better, Quadrant over 2200 currently on my SGS
in gaming terms for the future how long is this gonna last? can i expect games that are released in 6 months from now to run flawlessly? i know its hard for people to see into the future! but NEed for speed seems to run pretty much identically to my SGS, so im wondering if its all down to optimization on both chipsets
also gingerbread? a definate yes? or have HTC still not announced if Desire will be getting it
Samsung wont give any answers on this whatsoever
Also what would you guys do?
The samsung guys say "stay with it" but i want opinions from both camps
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
id say go for the desire, just won t3 awards phone of the year
chris2busy said:
no they do not have a standard snapdragon..
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Click to collapse
thats my point!! they have the same gpu running with a 768mhz cpu, and there gpu can do 3D better than ours, read this thread started about overclocking our gpu.....
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8553534#post8553534
its known to have a poor gpu so it really worries me that it was used to launch a platform which its main selling point will be gaming and xbox live integration. So people will expect to be blown away with games. Now, as far as the UI, its flawless when the OS is concerned but thats not a big deal since the graphical elements are not too taxing, but i saw the negative effects when playing need for speed undercover... it was really a step down when it came to smoothness and graphics IMO even when i remember it performing better in an 500mhz sprint palm pre...
am i missing something?? was it the effect of a dirty port from a ARM cpu made game?? or is this something to be mildly dissapointed about??
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
Combination of all that. Dirty port, new platform, and restrictions.
Sidenote PSP phone is on a newer version, but nothing is confirmed.
There are no games that push that CPU so no one is worried. By the time such games come the people who care will be getting ready to buy a new phone anyways. Those people buy anything just cause the specs are better.
Look at how android fans rave about the hummingbird CPU on a platform with relatively poor games and no gourmet accellerated ui, etc......
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
IMO its just going to be like the iPhone. The iPhone 2nd gen can still run most games that the iP4 can... but just with longer load times and lower frame rates.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. ACreed is already on WP7 from the makers of Nova.
mike21pr said:
I hope microsoft thought about this when they selected it to be the only supported cpu atm.
But my main question is, if a game was to be made from the ground up specifically for wp7 and snapdragon, and the game resembles a lot like NOVA for example (first person shooter) in detail and complexity, can the processor run it without issues??
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Click to collapse
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
mike21pr said:
>> on a side note, if snapdragon gen 1 is such a poor graphical cpu according to reviewers, why does the PSP Phone sport one??
I would appreciate some feedback... cheers
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Click to collapse
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
I do not know if you remember this but before Qualcomm bought out the ATI mobile solutions division HTC had real trouble with the gfx card drivers due to laziness and licensing. This issue was present up until only the last few 6.5 devices that were made. Instantly this CPU/GPU was regarded as better but still not there yet (HD2). Qualcomms own presentations showed the chip running at much more potential.
Simply put. MS realised that HTC cant write drivers to save their lives,(homebrew projects were started by the community to save devices such as the X1 etc) so they wrote their own.
This might not be the best example but if you check videos of side by side comparisons (Nexus S vs Focus/Omnia 7) you will see that WP7 manages to be more fluid displaying websites then a Hummingbird Android combo.
I believe the chip hasn't been used to its full potential yet. If it will be fully utilized in a years time for lets say games... is debatable.
VonCrisp said:
You have to consider that MS actually wrote some decent drivers for this CPU/GPU.
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Click to collapse
In addition to that, I think a lot of performance depends on the software running on top of it. For example, everyone gets caught up in the powerhouse specs of Android--but maybe because Android is a custom version of Linux the software is 'heavier' and it requires a lot of power from the CPU. Meanwhile, WP7 software seems to be running much faster than Android on a slower CPU and that is most likely because Microsoft has done a fantastic job of keeping the OS optimized for the hardware and maybe even hardware accelerated (to use the CPU's full potential).
It's like viewing a picture with Photoshop versus viewing a picture with a default Photo Viewer. On a fast computer, the speed difference between opening either one is probably not a big deal. But on a slower computer, Photoshop will take longer to open than the Photo Viewer. Both programs are identical on both computers, but the Photo Viewer has less to load and was designed to open faster than Photoshop.
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
WP7 features the SnapDragon SoC AND an Adreno 200 GPU. The GPU is the one handling the animations and such while the CPU focuses on the rest. Now I'm not saying it's a speed monster, but it's more than enough.
@Above: Alot of Android phones are still plagued by choppiness, not by Android itself, but by the Skins OEMs put on it. Motorola is the notorious one. But consumers do not know and will blame android for it instead.
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
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Click to collapse
who can't get around their phone fast? Android and RIM. Let's be realistic, in terms of GPU, both Oses are poor. I mean REALLY poor.
The load test is a bit difficult for a lot of reasons. Most of the wp7 devices uses microsd card and that has been KNOWN to attribute to slow loading, not as much as the cpu/gpu. Also is there an objective test that loads the same 3 games on the three smartphone platforms? It's no question apple would be first using flash based storage, it is meant to poll data at a faster rate than microsd card.
secondly, microsoft does have support for real time gaming and a few more details due to using CE7 core
Check more about that
http://wmpoweruser.com/wm7-is-ce7/
recently however, the news story has been verified that CE7 is underlying wp7 not CE6 with bits of CE7
It honestly wouldn't surprise me if we saw real time gaming as early as next year on wp7 platform
If the developer wants to make money, it will run without issues. The CPU isn't as terrible as some seem to want to make it out to be...
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I don't think snapdragon is terrible either. It's been underutilized but not terrible by any means. I also agree that a lot of the reasons there is horrid runtimes is because it is a fast port and the port isn't Optimized for wp7. Microsoft has done an unbelievable job for the porting process, but developers just stop there. There is no further optimization sadly and that is a shame
While I think a better processor would be ideal, I don't think its gonna be a problem for WP7. You see the thing about Android is that it REQUIRES all these specs that the fanboys rave over to run smoother. WP7 is already there. Android has a bigger footprint than WP7 and requires more power. This is the problem with android and gaming. I have Angry Birds on my phone, Moto Cliq, and it loads slowly and plays poorly. I deleted because I can't play a game a 2fps.
^ see what I mean you blame the OS because of your phone. That's not Androids fault, put those exact same Motorola Cliq specs in a WP7 device and you will have the same result.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
Who said anything about microSD chips?
CE7 supports multiplayer gaming, WP7 itself doesn't. Right now at this very moment it is impossible to play a realtime multiplayer game on WP7. Its a pipe dream right now.
You can say potentially the January update will correct this, and I can say potentially WP7 will launch the next NASA mission.
Another thing why do you guys have to mention the fault of another OS but brush off the faults of WP7 as if its acceptable?
vetvito said:
Dude don't ruin the thread, and please do some research. Android has a ton of games. Multiplayer and cross platform games. Not to mention the use of the Unreal gaming engine(pushes CPU).
But this isn't a Android thread so lets not mention it. Focus on WP7 for a change.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
says the resident wp7 hater...
vetvito said:
100% sure you guys can't put any facts behind that, yes WP7 has a graphic accelerated UI, but beyond that, the speed isn't anything to brag about. Wow you can get around your phone fast, these days who can't?
Load the same game up on all three platforms and WP7 is dead last.
IOS vs Android vs PC due in January.
IOS vs Android vs PC vs console gaming due in 2011
Cross platform real time multiplayer gaming just a pipe dream on WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
nrfitchett4 said:
says the resident wp7 hater...
All I know is that the same games on my hd2 and hd7, the hd7 games are graphically much better and have videos integrated that I hadn't seen on a mobile game before.
I've played a lot of android games on my hd2 running android, and android just isn't there for gaming. You have, what, one game that you can play with the iphone fanbois???
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This is exactly why I switched to WP7. I have a vibrant and while I LOVED the screen, I felt it was pointless because there was not enough great games out on android. N.O.V.A. dragon age, and asphalt were awesome and alot of fun but those had to be bought directly from the gameloft app store. Why is that? Becasue the android market / platform has terrible security. Developers don't want to spend a long time creating an awesome game and then have it pirated a couple hours later.
Overall I already have much better games on my WP7 device. All my friends with galaxy S series phones can't believe the games I have on it in terms of quality and quantity.
I don't get the big buzz about angry birds also, its simple and fun for a little bit, but don't you think its quite repetitive? I knew I never once pulled out my vibrant thinking "lets play angry birds" after I beat it the first time.
Android does have the best hardware for games (nothing even comes close) however, the apps just aren't there, so who is to blame? The OEMs or the OS? I'd say the OS.
The only thing that beats WP7 in the games department is the iPhone. This is only true because of how long it has been out and it has the biggest market share. As a developer you developer programs for the largest group of potential buyers. Android does not factor in because it has a culture of having free apps and "free" apps. The latter being the reason why top game developers stay away.
so far i havnt seen anything from the 1ghz snapdragon processor to make me thnk its great. yes the wp7 interface is fast and fluid but the games themselves do not run as fluidly as i would like. despite having a 1ghz processor like the iphone, wp7 games dont seem to be as smooth probably running at 25 fps while i phone games look like they are running closer to 60 fps. im waiting for ilmilo milo or what ever its called to confrim this as so far it looks liek the smoothest wp7 game. rocket riot is currently the smoothest ive seen on wp7.
Dominues lets be realistic what can you do faster on WP7?
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bootup, scroll, loading of native programs...I think that's a bit hefty right there
Yes there is a video on YouTube of Acreed loading on WP7 and Android, took android seconds, took WP7 damn near a minute or two.
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1. link?
2. was the game loaded on nand or sd card? Do we need to go through this ad nauseum? Nand is faster than sd card there is no question about that. However, in general sd card loading is SLOW. Period
3. You also fail to take into account graphic detail. let's be realistic. Windows Phone 7 does look better, and is larger than android games. Heck the Acreed game looks antiquated on android...and that's on the best android device
OK OP question has been answered. Thread gone to opinionated bias people who don't like facts. Opinion after opinion. Where are the facts?
Dude said Android has only one game that they can play against IOS, shaking my head. Then another guy says scrolling is faster when I asked what can you do faster, is that your best answer? Shaking my head. After that he said ACreed looks antique on Android, when in fact its the exact same game. I give up because you guys are not willing to accept faults and facts.
Enjoy your fantasy world, and let the shameless name calling continue.
I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...
Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.
As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry
I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...
I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.
fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?
Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
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I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?
vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.
I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?
vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.
No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
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Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
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Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
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matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
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To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
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Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.
orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?
^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.
Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.
I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.
ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.
I was one of very few people of bought a wp7 device when it first came out. most people on xda said they would wait for the second generation of wp7 devices. now that the second generation has arrived the specs are very dissapointing, to put it short..... Where are the high end wp7 devices???? 1.5ghz single core? really? 2nd gen STILL making 8gb phones? come on! its nearly 2012, and whats with the lumia not even having a front facing camera? i thought this was all going to change when the second gen came out, but instead ill have to watch my android owning friends play thier games at 60fps, while no developers bother to even upgrade their games since the mango update allowed it! surely more power would be needed for xbox live games .......... no wonder wp7 is doing pants...give us some real hardware...
I'll quote Anton Nagy from pocketnow "Some Android users just don't get it that Windows Phone doesn't need the Android h/w processing power to run smoothly!"
Stop worrying about how fast the processor is or how many cores it has. The truth is WP7.5 runs great on "lower" end hardware where android chokes and lags.
^ Bull****. It's not about smoothness, if it was, dumbphones would be the obvious winner. Pathetic excuse.
It's about 1080p, graphic intensive games, heavy media, etc. Xbox Live is a sad joke on the phone.
Did Anton Nagy answer why does the iPhone has dual cores?
Headline = Correct
There is absolutely nothing that really says "wow, ok this is 2nd gen". Except the Titan. But it's still locked into an old school resolution.
That's funny, I was about to start this exact same thread
I was never expecting dual core, I know the OS doesn't support it and iOS got great games without the need of for dual core anyway.
Still that's not a reason to keep getting low end devices. The Titan on android comes with beats audio and a 32GB option, the Lumia 800 comes on Meego with a FF camera and a 64GB option, why are WP7 users getting the shaft? Not one 32GB device when Zune players have been canned in favour of WP7, how is that now ridiculous?
Use a WP. It doesn't lag and not once will you feel your phone isn't capable of something.
But I agree about screen and ffc.
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karan1203 said:
Use a WP. It doesn't lag and not once will you feel your phone isn't capable of something.
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iPhone doesn't "lag" either. Yet it gets a significantly faster CPU and graphics chip with each iteration.
iOS started getting properly good (i.e. non casual) apps around the time the iPhone 3GS was launched. Suddenly you had some real horse-power, and you started getting proper 3D shooters like Call of Duty: Zombies. Check out Infinity Blade or Epic Castle running on the 3GS - puts every WP7 game to shame, and this is on a phone that came out 2.5 years ago (a lifetime in the mobile world!).
Meanwhile we've still not got a single decent FPS, and almost zero augmented reality apps. Now do you see why we need better hardware?
All that putting a duel core faster processor etc in will do is drain the battery like a siv for no noticable extra performance esp when the clock speed of the processor is hardly a bottleneck in these phones. Your 1.4ghz lumia will run faster and smoother then a duel core htc sensation. I to would love to see bigger memory beats phone but as i own bose headphones i dont feel its a biggie. At the end of the day the only thing that sucks is 16gb but then i have a zune for my music so 16gb is more than i need.
to put it simple bigger specs = less battery + no noticable differance in performance
i know what i want and that a solid sexy device with a mind blowing screen (yes i know its small but hay there all the same res just look at it closer lol) and a battery that lasts. Plus WP7.5 is much nicer to use and more polished then android or ios. Dont get me wrong i love androif but only cos i love to play and mess with things but past that it looks dated and eats power.
Another complainers thread.
Even if Windows Phones had dual core, ffc, nfc, served coffee and made the bed there would always be a group of complainers. It will never be satisfactory.
I will say this: Its a phone. If it doesn't suit your needs, do not buy it. Microsoft will get the message loud and clear of no one buys it.
I'm glad there aren't dual core CPUs. I like my battery lasting over a day.
I have Never noticed lag on my Omnia 7. Never once. All the games I have play smoothly. OS is silky.
My PC is now 2 years old. Normally i'd upgrade it at least every 2 years. I won't bother now.. why ? Because i don't need to. It will still play modern games at an acceptable and high quality.
sayonical said:
If it doesn't suit your needs, do not buy it. Microsoft will get the message loud and clear of no one buys it.
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No one is buying it are they? MS still refuse to release sales figure, but un-offocial sources show it's in last place, even being outsold by Bada (Samsung's phone OS).
You've also missed the point entirely; if a WP7 came out that hardware on par or significantly ahead of the current gen Androids (e.g. 1200x900 res screen, camera with 1080p recording and xenon flash, fast 3d chip, FFC camera) it would sell well. But they haven't, so it won't; WP7 is one generation behind yet again.
Indeed, I could understand that the 1st wave of devices = underpowered phones.
But for the 2nd wave it's not acceptable anymore. All the devices proposed are mediocre.
I was patient, but now I am really fed up.
My last hopes in the OS have totally gone ith the ****ty Nokia phones announced.
I need SD card slot, I need 32/64GB, I need FFC, I need USB mass storage, I need DivX|Avi, I need bigger screen, etc.....
What a disaster.
Microsoft is always behind, just a follower. They are incapable of anticipating and thinking ahead and unable to propose something that the competitors do not already have. They are 2 years late, they are one phone generation late.
The last WP7 phones have specifications from year 2009 !!!
WHERE ARE THE HIGH END WP7 DEVICE??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---------- Post added at 05:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:52 PM ----------
Peew971 said:
The Titan on android comes with beats audio and a 32GB option, the Lumia 800 comes on Meego with a FF camera and a 64GB option, why are WP7 users getting the shaft? Not one 32GB device when Zune players have been canned in favour of WP7, how is that now ridiculous?
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I have the exact same question.
I want to understand this.
Is Microsoft forcing the manufacturers to do this?
---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------
Freypal said:
I'm glad there aren't dual core CPUs. I like my battery lasting over a day.
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What are you talking about?
One of my friends has both an HTC Mozart and the last iPhone.
He is always complaining because the HTC cannot last more than 1 day (with its fu..... single core), whereas his iPhone can last up to 3 or 4 days.
Don't believe what you read on WP7 users forum. Wp7 is crap on every level (except maybe the UI)
What are YOU talking about, the last iphone was a single core device, the NEW Iphone (the 4S) is dual core and surprise surpise, the most subscribed thread on the iphone 4S section over at mac rumors is titled "baterrygate"
3 or 4 days with an iPhone?
LOL
Sent from my OMNIA7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
What you want is a premium phone. I don't think Microsoft (or at least Nokia) believes that space is a priority considering that it's dominated by the iPhone and the GS2.
I think it's a viable tactic: premium looking phone for a mid-range price. It does suck for those of us who aren't as price conscious.
Anyway, I would wait to see what Samsung brings out. The hardware should be nice spec-wise. Personally, it's a no go for me because their design is uninspiring.
So after a year, people still cant decide for themselves what phone they should buy. If WP7 doesnt meet your needs, dont buy it, if you have bought it, dump it for what suits you. Complaining because you cant have what your friends have sounds like a playground mentality.
If it met your needs once but doesnt anymore its more beneficial to move on to another platform, especially considering that members of this forum are highly likely to know exactly the capabilities and restrictions of WP7. Its common knowledge what screen res WP7 supports, what CPU's it supports and what RAM it supports. So why are people surprised when devices are released that meet the known specs? Screen size, camera quality, storage size can vary but nothing else is going to change.
Really nothing forcing anyone to use this OS, and as people are so fond of saying, there are no sales, missing features, its ugly, etc. So, why not move on?
davidebanks said:
I was one of very few people of bought a wp7 device when it first came out. most people on xda said they would wait for the second generation of wp7 devices. now that the second generation has arrived the specs are very dissapointing, to put it short..... Where are the high end wp7 devices???? 1.5ghz single core? really? 2nd gen STILL making 8gb phones? come on! its nearly 2012, and whats with the lumia not even having a front facing camera? i thought this was all going to change when the second gen came out, but instead ill have to watch my android owning friends play thier games at 60fps, while no developers bother to even upgrade their games since the mango update allowed it! surely more power would be needed for xbox live games .......... no wonder wp7 is doing pants...give us some real hardware...
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I came from Nokia to Android and I used Nokias since 1987 lol. sssh... don't tell anyone.
Nokia phones always had slower CPU's etc... and the software didn't usually need more because it was never power hungry. I think we need to see the high end stuff. I also think they knocked this batch out in a hell of a hurry and knowing Elop and Co we'll see some nice phones soon ish if they have learned anything from announcement to release delays that is!
Nokia make software run well on different hardware.
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uryu_ishida said:
What you want is a premium phone. I don't think Microsoft (or at least Nokia) believes that space is a priority considering that it's dominated by the iPhone and the GS2.
I think it's a viable tactic: premium looking phone for a mid-range price. It does suck for those of us who aren't as price conscious.
Anyway, I would wait to see what Samsung brings out. The hardware should be nice spec-wise. Personally, it's a no go for me because their design is uninspiring.
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Click to collapse
I don't want a premium phone. I just need 32 GB.
Why the Titan with Android has 32 GB and the Titan with WP7 only 16GB ??? I just can't explain this.
I would have bought the Titan immediately if it came with 32GB. But 16GB is a dealbreaker.
I am not asking more than this.
Same for me. Last chance for 32GB is the Focus S.
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Buy the Sensation XL then.